I might have been wrong: A closer look at the biscuit joiner. Is it more useful than I thought?

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#woodworking #joinery #tools

[@darrengillesdarrengilles8336]

I couldn't care less what this guy says, and thats not because I love biscuit joiners. Anyone who holds a shallow piece of wood opposite a spinning joiner saw blade instead of using a clamp is a hack in my opinion, and as well the glue in the test should have been given 24hrs to cure 2 hrs is a total waste of time, also using two boards for a butt joint with clearly different grain patterns is ridiculous. This test could have been incredibly helpful if done correctly instead it is more of a testament to this mans wood working ineptitude.

[@HappyGobo]

I think it's funny he pinned this.

[@darrengillesdarrengilles8336]

@@HappyGobo He probably stuck the pin in his finger.

[@blaugrana-jw3dd]

why are you crying? Not everyone is a professional woodworker, we just want to have fun, it isn't our job, it's our hobby. And for someone who accasionaly builds stuff on the weekend, a biscuit joiner is the last tool I bought. They really don't add strengh. They are useful for specific stuff, and a weekend woodworker doesn't need that. Or maybe he just love to build melamine cabinet, then I get it.

[@MS-rg6ku]

Damn!

[@mmartinez4117]

🤣🤣 triggered by a biscuit

[@OzSafe1]

My wife liked you more when you convinced me to not buy a biscuit jointer.

[@Lazarus-aap]

Especially when you convinced yourself that you'll need the red brand, Huh?

[@dedalliance1]

@@Lazarus-aap If anyone spends 1,000 dollars on a biscuit jointer that's dumb, at that point just put a little bit more money up and get the Festool Domino which will essentially do everything a biscuit jointer will times 100 with way more accuracy and strength lol.

[@Lazarus-aap]

@@dedalliance1 Don't worry, I will not buy it! Like, at all! I don't need it! And if I ever do want to spend money on a similar tool, I will most definitely take your advice to account!! Thanks 😉

[@MaydaysCustomWoodworks]

@@dedalliance1 in theory, yes... But you'd be surprised at what justifies a tool purchase as a pro woodworker. I personally own and use a Domino for my business. It's an amazing tool. But the Lomello is on my buy list because it comes with a completely different blade than other brands. It has a locking mechanism in the biscuit joint, and also the biscuits and Lomello accessories are cheaper than the Domino stuff. The Lomello can have concealed plastic clamps inside of the joint. Yes, you are correct that strength wise a Domino is superior. But sometimes it's not about overkilling strength as much as it is about cost effectiveness and utility.

[@petermiddo]

Dude, my wife banned me from buying new tools until I made something. So, I made Steve's BMW - Basic Mobile Workbench. And my wife and I both are so proud of me.

[@pleasetakemynamenow]

I'm super impressed by your humility and willingness to revisit a strong opinion. Rare trait today. Thanks!

[@xw6968]

storiestoneil TV strange... im not sure if you have to do this if you have a own idea about things.

[@pleasetakemynamenow]

Agreed! No no-one has to do it. And thats what makes it cool. Making a mistake is learning. If you are too good to learn you fail.

[@brucea550]

@@xw6968 One things I’ve learned over 5 decades is that it’s good to have strong ideas of your own, and to base those ideas on the best available facts. Why go through life uninformed or wishywashy? For this method to work, it’s essential to be open to new information, and be willing to change your ideas if needed. I like my biscuit joiner, and use it enough to be glad I bought it. But I still watched both these videos and read quite a few of the comments to get different viewpoints and information. I also disagree with Mr Ramsey about the use of dowels, but that doesn’t make either of us wrong!

[@bmxadict1816]

I definitely have that trait figured that out with harbor freight Home Depot Chevy and waterbeds

[@davidcerino1145]

Right? My man said, “Aight, there might something more to it. Let’s drop $150 dollars and see.” I really admire Ramsey! lol

[@TheDboardman]

I was thinking of commenting on your first video, I figured others would say what I was thinking. I use biscuits daily in my custom shop. It's not about the strength at all. When you glue up panels it's just nice to have everything you can in your favor. Yeah calls are great, but it's hard to put calls in the middle of a table top. When you are gluing up 10-15 boards to a table top putting a biscuit every 12 or so inches you limit the amount of clamps you have to use to get a glue up that wont require hand plane work later or excess passes through a wide belt. You're right it's not a necessity style tool but it is something that will become invaluable if your woodworking progresses past the occasional glue up. One last tip, the only time I would use a biscuit for a cabinet door glue up would be if the center panel was plywood or mdf. It will align your joints well and the small amount of additional glue surface mixed with the glue surface around the center panel it makes a solid joint. If the panel were floating you really should do either a M&T or use something like a domino. After watching your videos for the past 6-7 years I am happy that you are still making videos for your subscription base as apposed to making videos for sponsors. The whole sponsorship thing that took hold about 4 years ago has really turned a lot of decent channels into nothing more than low rate infomercials.

[@jonathanmcclure8346]

I admire how well put together this comment is lol

[@ghostarcher1663]

I applaud you for being open minded and willing to take on advice, it reminded me of why I first subscribed to you, looking forward to more great videos

[@davelowesky8054]

Lol open minded? He just admitted to deleting comments on people disagreeing with him. And said anyone disagreeing with him couldn’t possibly be a subscriber or here for actual information. Essentially the people disagreeing with him are people that are just surfing KZbin and happened to find this video. Yeah sounds like a real open minded individual.

[@whatthefuckeidos9230]

@@davelowesky8054 nope, he said he deleted those that were personal attacks against him, and other regular channel viewers raised rational counterpoints in their own comments, which Steve took to heart and thus led to this video. You'd know if you actually listened lmao

[@Tyler-ob3ur]

seems like your old one was a Limp Bizkit joiner

[@xConundrumx]

You can show yourself out now :)

[@learningthehardway6186]

And here I had all but forgotten that band... the turd that won’t flush.

[@PREDISGOD]

Learning the Hard Way Nickleback?!

[@smeddlywalleye]

LMAO

[@AJB2K3]

Bah, ha ,ha. Anyone got a chainsaw?

[@neilpountney9414]

I love that you can have an open mind and great credit for giving it another go. Love your channel I have gained a lot of knowledge from you videos. Thank you

[@jamesbarros950]

I always love your videos and advice. Low cost project based teaching is your meat and potatoes and I really appreciate it. This video on biscuits was just gravy.

[@ronh9384]

Hello Steve. That biscuit you used in the first shot was probably a bit to tight. Biscuits will absorb moisture from the air which is why I keep mine in a fairly airtight container. You want a little play left or right and you don’t want to scrape off the glue as it goes in. Also just as an FYI for any new users of biscuit joiners if you use biscuits to line up boards for a table top make sure you give the top a day or so to dry. The biscuits will swell when the absorb the moisture in the glue and create little humps where the biscuits are (this does not always happen). If you sand the boards to soon and those humps are there you will have little dips where each biscuit is. But if you let it dry for a day or so then sand the moisture from the glue will have been absorbed and equalized and you should not have any issues. Also Steve.... the (Red) tool for $1600.00 is not technically a biscuit joiner although you can replace the blade it comes with a smaller blade and use it as a biscuit joiner. They picture you showed uses specialized fittings for joining panels, shelves and so much more. The (red) tool company does make a biscuit joiner and is the brand that Norm Abram used in the New Yankee workshop. I believe the (red) tool company was the inventor of the biscuit joiner as well but if I am wrong about that I’m sure someone will correct me.

[@RodrigoMadriz]

Found on Craigslist near San Francisco moments ago "For Sale: Barely used 20 year old Biscuit Joiner made by Sears"

[@j.kelley8595]

Only if I need a boat anchor!

[@WApnj]

Grab it quick.... 👍

[@drexldog]

I see what you did there 😉

[@Halloween111]

That's where I found mine.

[@jimm5593]

J. Kelley ji

[@rsramanujam]

It takes a lot of courage and open mindedness to make such a video. My respect for you went up a notch.

[@chrisis9030]

It's called mature behaviour. Quite normal, IMO.

[@A_person_of_Interest]

I'll throw in my ha'penny's worth.. As a furniture maker I find a biscuit jointer an invaluable tool for cabinet making, assembling carcasses and drawer sides for example. They create a strong bond that will not fail before the surrounding material does. I find them great for dry fitting before final glue up as the biscuits are easily removed, unlike Festool domino's which I find can damage the material when removing after a dry fit. My favourite biscuit jointer is the Elu DS140 jointer/groover. An even more versatile jointer, which operates with a scissor action rather than plunge action. I still have two of these but alas, Dewalt bought out Elu and in their wisdom discontinued the model. Biscuits are avaliable in four sizes. No. 20, No. 10, Zero and FF. With 20 being the largest and FF being the cute tiny ones.

[@jimhoyt316]

On the joiner you used there is a drop down piece that allows you to set the depth of the biscuit cut from the top face. If you use boards of different thickness it allows you to align the top of the board so you get a flat surface.

[@jacquesparent43]

That woodworking table looks familiar.... where have I seen that before..... geez.... oh!!! Yes! I made that workbench with your course. Love it!!

[@matthewcarpenter4716]

THE BMW!!!! I made 3! Love the design!

[@keithmarlowe5569]

My son just turned 5 and loves woodworking videos. (I am baffled but love it). He said "look papa, he has a cart like yours". I said "no, I have a cart like his".

[@thinkupbeats]

Dude the halloween videos are my favorite!

[@SteveRamsey]

lol, me too! 😁

[@mythyc9604]

ditto!

[@TheMrAshley2010]

+++

[@watcherofwatchers]

@@SteveRamsey That, and the yearly film recommendations!

[@TreasureFiend]

yup

[@532bluepeter1]

I am glad that you are prepared to re-assess your opinion. I used to be a cabinet maker in a London based workshop and have used as an employee a number of makes of biscuit jointer including an earlier iteration of the DeWalt that you demonstrated. We did have Lamello biscuit jointers and the build quality is superb but they seem to have rather rested on their laurels. The work for which biscuit jointers are most suited is assembling sheet material carcases or cabinets. In the company for whim I used to work almost everything was assembled with biscuits. One could be pretty sure of a good alignment of level and a reasonable level of strength. Biscuits are intended to be assembled with pva as the biscuits are compressed and swell in the joint due to the bloating caused by the water content of the pva giving greater mechanical strength than otherwise. The disadvantage of this is that the biscuits need to be kept well away from the surface of the joint to avoid bulges in the surface of the sheet material. Using a hammer to drive biscuits in can cause trouble as the bruising on the edge of the biscuit can hinder assembly. When using pva assembly does need to be quite swift as the swelling of the biscuits causes them to grab. Sash clamps are a good idea. Edge joining with biscuits is stronger than a rubbed joint just as a tongue and groove is as one is adding a mechanical joint. Biscuits are very poor when used as a substitute for traditional timber joints such as mortice and tenons. That is not really what they were devised for. If one does intend to assemble many carcases a biscuit jointer is a good idea and is much faster in production that dowels which are a non starter for speed and the jigs are on the whole really slow and over a long joint attaining alignment is very difficult. Most biscuit jointers have very similar fences and it has been very frustrating over the years when one has to join carcases at an angle such as under eaves. The only biscuit jointer which truly addresses this matter is the Porter Cable though there is a cheap copy branded SIP in the U.K. which is largely the same with one or two detail differences that do not affect operation in the short term. What these two offer is the ability to hook over the acute angle of the bevelled end allowing a much more positive location than other jointers which can only hook over the obtuse angle of the bevel giving a rather uncertain location. One other use that I recently had for a biscuit jointer was in producing ladder frame grounds for skirting boards. In many Victorian houses plaster is exceedingly thick and if the old skirting boards are damaged or missing then the grounds usually coma away with the boards. A good straight square set of grounds is much easier to fix to than wavy plaster or bits of timber already full of nails or screws. Why not have a bash at assembling a carcase with the good jointer that you now have and see how you get on?

[@gregorylondos534]

Hello Steve, glad to see you’re taking a second look at biscuit joinery. Not making the comment that you’re using a metal hammer I do also to insert my biscuits. It looks like you’re pushing the biscuit in to far or you have not adjusted the tool quite right... Where if you put a centerline on your biscuit then tap it in to the centerline/mark so that way You can monitor the installation process... Then the biscuit would be centered more equally in the two slots. Which would make for a stronger joint especially on a number 20 biscuit. Good come back video ... Greg

[@aldouztek2784]

Steve: "Yellow Brand Tool Company" Stanley: "Am I joke to you?"

[@patricelebrasseur5649]

DeWalt=Stanley

[@dedalliance1]

@@patricelebrasseur5649 Dewalt = Black and Decker

[@Unconventional03]

www.stanleyblackanddecker.com/our-businesses/our-brands More than you think actually.

[@laurelrunlaurelrun]

Stanley, yes.

[@classic287]

Patrice Le Brasseur, Black & Decker owns almost everything now...

[@dstarr3]

The biscuit joiner is an interesting tool: It's extremely useful in a lot of ways, except for the tasks it was designed to do.

[@bighands69]

That makes no sense. It is a jointing machine and it joints simple as that.

[@bluetorch13]

for the first 2 minutes I was thinking of Norm Abram "bicuiting" the sh*** out of every project, then you mention it LOL. I loved that guy.

[@recipio6561]

Biscuits were originally deigned for sheet goods and that is their main use. For joinery they are fine for unstressed joints. Use dust extraction for optimum results.

[@marceaton3128]

Next to my pocket hole jig, my yellow biscuit jointer is used very much. I will never understand people who just have something negative to say about free content. I learned to do woodworking from watching PBS on Sunday nights with Norm Abram. He used a biscuit jointer a lot, and that is why I bought one, I've had it since 1995. Thanks for your hard work in producing great content Steve. Ravens v SanFran in the Superbowl. Merry Christmas to you and the family.

[@christopherfeld6371]

That's how I got into biscuit joinery also. I like having the ability to attach trim to tabletops or carcasses without leaving nail holes.

[@Tyler_885]

One of my favorite sarcastic sayings is,”everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if they’re wrong.”

[@dhammer5645]

@tyler stevens you stole my saying. Lol

[@BobAbbott]

As I often tell people, "hey, I can't make you right."

[@Steve_1401]

"Opinions are like a**holes - everyone has one, and everyone except mine stinks" :)

[@Glamisemt24]

A great teacher isn't afraid to learn himself. Love the show....

[@frank_texas7400]

As a profesional electrician all I can say is that no matter what kind of joint you use in a cabinet the all break when the woodworker forgets to cut the hole for the wall plugs

[@hakancarlsson2881]

Or he's a smart professional and use words that all non professionals understan!

[@frank_texas7400]

Bob Not quite, we call them plugs in the field, If i use the code terms I would be talking to myself, have a nice day

[@frank_texas7400]

Ash Wolf Thats so funny I am form Texas trough, didn’t find any pimp to get my license...that would have been awesome

[@frank_texas7400]

Håkan Carlsson You know how is it brother

[@frank_texas7400]

Bob Yes i did

[@videogalore]

It takes confidence to address this after the fact and admit a changed position - we need more of this with political, religious beliefs and a whole host of other topics too - it's okay to change your minds people!

[@kamk8232]

Steve for president? Sure. Why not?

[@natalieisagirlnow]

@happy pibble ad revenue? nope. subscriptions to his course? maybe

[@jasoncall3731]

Thanks rando! Now tell me what your politics and religion are so I can adopt them for my life, because what I want the most is for you to say I demonstrated confidence and that I'm ok.

[@kbb6279]

@Videogalore: Yes! Absolutely! Never thought I would read such a meaningful opinion on a KZbin about biscuit joiners! Actually, a very good example how one can come to new insights when one is open to facts. Open to other people's opinions and experiences. Listen. Think critically. Do research. Confirm facts. It might just make one a better informed, less arrogant, humble person. Thanks friend!

[@Metalbass10000]

Yes, exactly! It is a strong mind, and a person confident in themselves, who is willing to admit to being wrong, and learning something, when presented with better evidence, more convincing evidence, supporting a different viewpoint, or conclusion. This is a sign of strength not of weakness. It is also a sign of strength and confidence in oneself to say, "I don't know,," when you actually don't know something. It is the weak-minded, the insecure, those not confident in themselves, who choose to fake knowing something, who try to act confident, and speak only in vague terms, or they try to lay down layers of doubletalk, cliches, often overly blusterous exaggerations that are strongly positive or strongly negative, they use arguments like, "slippery slope," or, "what's next," and they'll often quickly shift to attacking anyone who disagrees, often using unrelated attacks or familiar refrains, desperately trying to fool the people around them, or anyone listaing. This is also a clear and undeniable sign of dishonesty in a person . I have never been afraid to say to anyone, any of my bosses, any of my subordinates, that I don't know something, but I have always followed the admission of not knowing something, with the immediate assurance that I take responsibility and I will find out. If only our politicians we're capable of this behavior. But the corporations and big money interests that make massive bribes, I mean contributions to their campaign (bribes), would never allow it, so our politicians keep saying what they're saying, out of ignorance, or stupidity, or just being wrong, or because they're just repeating what they were told to say. And we almost never hear politicians say they don't know something, but we will hear almost constantly, politicians saying things that are completely untrue, usually loaded with b*******, as they are trying to cover up the fact that they don't know anyting about the topic or the issue about which they have just been asked. Some of them actually believe that they are fooling people, or they're getting away with something, but many of them don't operate with that delusion, they just don't care because they're going to be enriching their bank accounts and that's all that matters to them.

[@steliosstavrinides3502]

I will give my 2 cents also here. Yes B joiner is a specialize power tool and from what i see here they should not fit so tight (finger press), probably your biscuits got some moisture and have swollen up. But biscuits are very useful also when joining melamine particle boards, the biscuits when wet with glue, will swollen up and give a tight hold up.

[@tommoores1531]

There is a hand crank machine to run the biscuit through to re compress it so it fits easily in the slot

[@steliosstavrinides3502]

@@tommoores1531 yes but this should not be the norm as presented here

[@kirkfranks1]

@@tommoores1531 Vise?

[@colstace2560]

Nope, I disagree, when used in particle board they swell up and either split the board or cause humps on the finished surface, same when used in MDF boards

[@steliosstavrinides3502]

@@colstace2560 well those humps are called telegraphing and it can happen even more in solid wood. But it can be avoided if you cut the slots in the center of your wood or cut them near the bottom rather than near the top. Any floating tenon like system or dowels (even screws) will slightly split the particle board horizontally near the slot/hole, if its of low quality board, and after many years, Particle board furniture don't last forever, you can easily see this effect when you dismantle old furniture. IMO it's not the biscuit that makes this problem but the slot cut due to moisture, because the particle board has allot air space to give in when the biscuit dries out after gluing. Also you can see in old furniture that when trying to remove the biscuit it comes off with a big piece of particle board holding tight on the center top and bottom of it. That's just my opinion of-course ... Merry Christmas my friend :)

[@brucefulton]

for butt joints, depending on wood thickness, I use a stack of two or three biscuits, which adds considerable strength. And depending on the glue, I don't consider the joint at full strength for up to 24 hours. That would have made a big difference on the test.

[@barnabyjones8333]

It never ceases to amaze me how the "web" audience of anything has so many people who get so worked up about twiddly little stuff! Anyone, like yourself, who puts themselves out out there in the public eye, like these channels, has my sympathy. That said, I'm glad you don't publish the real nasty crap only bc it's such a waste of time to weed through when simply trying to enjoy the content that you've put time and energy into. Kudos for having an open mind about the machine too!

[@turducken23]

just wanted to say thank you, im a sales associate at a home depot and your videos honestly help me more for knowledge on tools than the store provided videos

[@brandonfrancey5592]

Woah woah woah there. As a Home Depot employee you're not allow to actually know anything useful. Your job is to hang out and chat with other employees in the aisle, read the packaging to the customers and send customers to the other end of the store as you sneak off to the break room.

[@garychambers5930]

I went into Lowe's one day As I walked in a guy asked me if I needed any help I asked him where his wood screws were at He looked at me very strangely and he said "all the screws are down aisle 3 but I believe they're all made of metal " I thought he might have been joking with me but the man was completely serious

[@brucea550]

I would never have known Home Depot provided any form of tool knowledge to their employees beyond where it is on the shelf.

[@rikroberts]

I inherited a biscuit joiner from my late father. I used it once on a project making an island where I had to glue up long boards of walnut. It helped align things for sure.

[@m_styles1981]

I love when a KZbin can make a redemption video. Good for you man! I also really enjoy your channel!

[@slow96ss]

I now agree 100% with your revised opinion and give you props for listening to your viewers. Now everyone learned something, a credit to your core beliefs!

[@jakekeller4092]

I was literally just watching another video of another woodworker who was saying that he loves his biscuit joiner and thought of you..... And then got this video notification during watching that. Never wrong to reconsider things 🙂

[@peterkleiner9114]

Bent's Woodworking?

[@jakekeller4092]

@@peterkleiner9114 sure was

[@peterkleiner9114]

@@jakekeller4092 Lol I figured, same here. Which is why I was scratching my head at Steve's earlier biscuit-bashing video. ;-)

[@vanceflight3433]

I appreciated your video last week. I'm on a budget and I never see any of the guys I follow KZbin use one. So... thank you for helping me make up my mind and saving me some money. 😊

[@knytetech7732]

They aren't necessary for nearly any task. Source: 15 years woodworking, inserted less than 20 briskets in my life.

[@photog1529]

@@knytetech7732 I love a good brisket.

[@newtonfoxbds]

You're presumably allowed you're own opinion without getting lambasted by a bunch of bored keyboard warriors? Keep going Mr Ramsey, you're my hero. Most of what I know about woodworking has come from you, thank you for all your splendid efforts.

[@BigHatBoris]

Right on man, I recommend your channel to everyone that steps into my shop with any interest in the hobby. Love your open mindedness in redoing a video for this interesting tool! Good to know bisquits should fit tightly.

[@TheFishingExperience916]

Using a metal hammer to tap in the biscuits into the slots is going to trigger a lot of people out there Steve.....

[@willpunch4food]

A tubular steel hammer, no less :'(

[@lukewhite9237]

Thor hammer master race

[@MotoMendez]

I think that's the point lol

[@workonitm8]

Could have used a mallet I guess but then the discussion would be whether Beech, or Persimmon, etc. is the proper wood ?

[@ahikernamedgq]

hahaha

[@bigmac1598]

Hi Steve. Do not forget to “dry” your biscuits as they expand with humidity. Once dry they should be kept in an airtight box. The biscuits would probably then not be quite as tight

[@aussiewanderer6304]

Nobody likes soggy biscuits...

[@MJ-nb1qn]

I always bake mine in the oven 200’ for 15 min, and lots or gravy!

[@pureblood6310]

Yeah the glue makes them swell !

[@MixingGBP]

To dry, do you just leave them sit in a shelf for a few days, or something else?

[@captaincaveman471]

@@MixingGBP Microwave

[@mikeabbott9748]

I am glad to see Your follow up video. I ordered a biscuit joiner and hoping to find it useful.Some people swear by them. Others do not care for them.

[@gunnersmate623]

Steve...I like the way you stay grounded...stay with the beginners because remember...there are always new people young and old that want to make things from wood but have no idea how to even begin. Your ways easily connect and capture attention of those who don't know terms and phrases associated with woodworking. keep up the good work and you will always have followers. I will always be one!

[@Fatjuice]

I just started working with a cousin and he makes custom made kitchens and closets and he uses a biscuit joiner a lot! and quite faster, he's been in this job for about 25 years.

[@wagbjorn]

my point exactly. Using the biscuit jointer, you need less clamps and you have less rush during the glue up because the biscuits keep everything in place. It has become one of the tools I use very often.

[@Robert-Smith]

when you do a large glue up that wont fit in a planer it makes it so you can glue up two or more narrower pieces then plane them and biscuit joint the pieces you ran through the planer together for alignment. Say for a table top that way all you need to do is sand then finish.

[@markbryan9989]

Done that! But used the router table to make the slots instead of the biscuit jointer.

[@SirWulfrick]

Love how you listened to the comments and took the time to refine it (even if that meant trudging through vitriol I don't even want to imagine). Very open minded but still stuck to your guns and explained that it was not a useless as you thought BUT still had very little use in the "mere mortals" world, Which is what your loyal viewers want to hear about.

[@Tverga60]

Thank you for giving the biscuit joiner another shot. I have been a shop teacher for 24 years. 7 years ago I introduced my students to biscuit joints. We don't use it for everything, but for making large panels and miter joints it does a great job. I did use it To glue up plywood legs at right angles for an augmented reality sandbox.

[@brucejohnson1264]

I use my bisuit joiner for adding hardwood edging to sheet goods. The biscuits make it so that there is perfect alignment between the top of the edging and the top of the sheet. It saves a bunch of sanding and scraping.

[@erikcramer]

Wow your manuals look really detailed. I've never expected it to look so graphical. You must have put a lot of time in them. Even the cutting list and how to cut with the least loss 🙏

[@yvantremblay]

I am a beginning woodworker (about 2 years). It’s one of the first tool I have bought and it’s one that I use the most. It ensure clean, tight and solid joints. I get great results on miter joint, flat or vertical. Results would have been much different if you had made a complete frame with miter joints and biscuits, and then try to break it.

[@kenmccalla1750]

You definitely got me started woodworking. I still watch your basic box video every couple months. I retired in December 2021 from Urology and needed something to do. I found that terrorizing friends and relatives with cutting boards was a lot of fun. Your 1,000k workshop is now in my rear view mirror but definitely remembered and appreciated. I recently purchased my first “green brand” domino jointer to put a large walnut waterfall table together. I’ve used it for large table slabs and seem to keep using it. I’m probably lazy but the thing sure makes a lot of things easier and way more precise than I ever was before. It doesn’t fit beginning wood working but it sure is fun ! Keep the videos coming and thanks for getting me started.

[@tamsyncarpenter559]

Spent 20 minutes looking for 'funny' comments didnt find any. Love you Steve

[@daasch1]

8:44 says it all. Thank you Steve Ramsey! I appreciate how 'real' you are re woodworking for mere mortals, which is most of us.

[@latengocomoburro]

That is wrong, I bought one on eBay for $50. a Dewalt just like that one barely used. I would not pay 150 for one and it does help a lot getting planks aligned.

[@nathansutherland8272]

I'm really impressed that you were listened to the comments and gave something another try! As someone who is just getting into woodworking your videos are a big help and I appreciate them. Thank you for making them!

[@Beevreeter]

Biscuit joints (and even double biscuit joints) add immense strength to edge joints and are used by many FINE woodworkers as a matter of course - Biscuits are compressed beech which expand in a water-based glue joint, adding a great amount of strength (try taking a properly dried one apart for a fun time). They are also fantastic for aligning and positioning in many circumstances. I have always considered this an essential tool for any serious woodworker. One day when you have nothing better to do try experimenting with edge joints - And let them dry for at least a week. And yes, Lamello invented the biscuit method and the biscuits, and definitely make the Rolls Royce of machines.

[@Guillaurent]

It is also useful for joints (including butt joints) with MDF for furniture, especially when veneered.

[@Aubreykun]

I have a book from the 80s that describes this way to use it several times in the projects, and as shown on the page they don't look half bad. Fancy even.

[@markaguirre4753]

You're the freakin best man. I've never looked forward more to giving somebody I've never met $97 for something I know nothing about. BUT! I have half of a two car garage that I need to make work!

[@chrismarshall1912]

Dont listen to those people Steve! Your the most positive woodworking instructors I've ever seen! Thanks for all your efforts to help!

[@smdpickett]

These two videos are awesome. Really appreciate you taking the time to respond to the community, showing humility, and, ha, coming to the same conclusion.

[@JordanBurnett-mf4yn]

"Yellow brand tool company" Epic!

[@denishuber7758]

this is one quick handy tool that you can use for a lot of things....i say that bcause i can remember of have been using it in a shop where i learnd carpenter....very mighty tool...

[@jimmcnett]

I have been watching your videos for a couple of years now. I really like your content. Thank you for having the guts to post a video where you show that you have a flexible mind. I understand how you came to the conclusion about biscuit joiner. I have struggled with this topic myself. I am really happy to see that when you discover new information, you will publicly state that there is more to it than you thought. It is honestly like you showed that will keep me coming back to hear and see what you have to offer. Kudos.

[@lynnschmissrauter2269]

I really appreciate all your videos. This one was very humble. An underrated quality. Thank you!

[@Toklat2011]

I bought one used when I was starting out (BUY ALL THE TOOLS!). Even though I agree with your assessment, I have to say, I really love using it. I have no idea why, it's just particularly satisfying. But then I also love drilling perfect holes with my drill press and Forstner bits, so go figure. :-)

[@buggyridge]

Sums up my experience as well.

[@volunteerjb1]

I love mine for making shelves. Super quick.

[@chrislaney930]

Hmm? Like how? Instead of dados? Or just joining boards to make a shelf? And the front runner

[@volunteerjb1]

@@chrislaney930 yeah, no dados. I simply draw where I want the shelves, then rip the plywood, then rip the shelving. Lay the out the biscuits, And just glue it all up. You can do all of it with a straight line, you don't even need a tape.

[@jimmylovescake6813]

How power tools and their accuracy has changed over the years, glad you put it to the test. 2 comments on from this, either your biscuits were damp or the wrong size for the slot cut, and using a metal hammer can damage the biscuits so the edges flare out. Full respect for giving it another go.

[@zaxazva]

Hey Steve. Flooring guy here...I will say 1 use the biscuit joiner gets used in our trade. When doing hardwood, and u get to something like a custom end cap/stair nosing..since we all know hardwood boards are rarely dead flat...inserting some biscuit spots in your last board really helps to line up that custom end cap piece (whatever it might be)...like for example..when you get to a doorway and quarter turn the last board for a transition..

[@douglasgoldstein8990]

In 30+ years of woodworking, the biscuit cutter has been a great tool, especially for cabinet work...llloooooong before pocket screws, and way easier than dowels.

[@michaelkraft6018]

Yes, but now that pocket joinery exists, what are your thoughts?

[@douglasgoldstein8990]

@@michaelkraft6018 well, it's a great way to join 2 pieces of wood, but it's very ugly and requires zero skill to utilize...which is probably why it's the go to for 90% of all KZbin carpenters. Sorta like resin...everyone thinks that they're creating works of art by slathering some resin on some wood...they're not. Even after 30 years of woodworking I still do not know everything, and would never call myself a master, yet there are several KZbinr's who refer to themselves as masters, or experts. I don't know, different mindset I guess. But for me, all my cabinetry is done with biscuits, they're just...better.

[@michaelkraft6018]

@@douglasgoldstein8990 Zero skill is precisely why I love them! I really enjoy putting things together, but I am NOT a craftsman and I do not have lots of free time to work on projects. I also have no dedicated space. So when I get started on something, it means a lot of prep in my garage and hope for good weather, work quickly and get it done. The great thing about pocket screws - no clamp up and waiting for the glue to set, and the bond is super strong. Yes, they are ugly, but you work to bury those where they can't be seen.

[@douglasgoldstein8990]

@@michaelkraft6018 I hear ya, and I do respect people more for at least trying to build their own stuff, rather than just buying it pre made.

[@mattk6827]

My biggest gripe with pocket screws, aside from the fact they can be ugly (even with the plugs). It's that 'diyers' use them for every damn thing. They're fine for a number of things, quick and easy so long as it's not showing like cabinet facing or something, maybe dresser carcasses. But I see people like oh I put together this heavy duty lumber rack or I built this entire bed frame using nothing but pocket screws. (facepalm). Hot glue is fantastic too, for attaching felt to something. Not for hanging a 55" tv on the wall. It has its limits.

[@gdm1985]

Im definitely a convert to biscuits. I have found boards glued with biscuits seldom warp over time.

[@vharboe]

Gary Moore I reeeeeally do not think that the cookies has ANYTHING to do with that at all... They will make no difference what so ever in regards to warping.

[@ValentinaFaussone]

Hello Steve, I’m in Italy and biscuit jointer is very used here, especially by woodworkers with a limited budget, but wanting good results. The reasons are: - it costs 1/4 or 1/3 than a Festool domino (primary choice if you can afford it) - it’s used for both alignment and joinery - biscuits are unexpensive - we don’t use pocket holes joints, which seems to be the primary way to go for US people Bottom line: here it is a fast, refined, not too complex, reasonably priced tool that allows you to make totally hidden joints. Mine is by Makita. The red one is the original one, but you don’t necessarily need that.

[@carlwheeler3403]

I have watched numerous videos on using biscuit joiners and none of them use the method that was taught to me. I worked with an extremely experienced cabinet maker that taught me to glue everything up thoroughly then dip the biscuits in water before inserting them into the slots and clamping the pieces together. The water causes the biscuit to swell as the glue dries making for an incredibly strong joint. I have used the water method for 20 years with no failures.

[@07roadking43]

Norm Abbrams was my favorite shows back when inner webs were just getting going , you used to be able to explore his shop online it was kool !!!

[@fenderstratguy]

I got to meet Norm Abrams one time and he was very friendly.

[@sampearson1484]

Also .. I was taught that you should put woodwork glue in the slot .. not just to add glue . but it expands the biscuit making the join stronger . .. I mostly use biscuits when I join 38 mm kitchen bench tops .. I couldn't get a smooth join with out them !!!

[@maintenancemadesimple4429]

This is the first video I’ve seen of yours! I really enjoyed it and look forward to seeing your upcoming ones!

[@BrandonCastleberryCTS]

I'm glad you posted this. Awhile back I purchased a cheap "detail" biscuit joiner at the pawn shop for about $20. It sat for a bit without use. Then I watched your video about how useless regular sized biscuit joiners are. I felt my small one must be complete garbage. I was about to ebay it starting at a penny just to get it out of my garage. Then the day before I was going to post it on eBay I found myself building a small wooden gift box to use instead of wrapping a friends gift. I decided such a small project didn't need much strength so I gave the little biscuit joiner a try on all of the joints in the entire project. It was pretty useful, but the biscuits were sloppy like your old joiner. However they held enough that I did not need many clamps or a pin nailer. For me even being a beginner I think I will keep this around for the small stuff because it is really easy to use. Also I got mine so cheap that it's not a cost issue. However being a "detail" biscuit joiner it's possible that the smaller biscuits may be hard to find some day in the future. Anyway thanks for another great video, Steve!

[@o.g.bwoodwork]

Thank you for being so open Steve. It’s rare to find someone that will be open to saying they’re wrong and testing out the alternatives.

[@kmonnier]

You are a beautiful and intelligent person! Also big yellow boxes are my weakness.

[@calebreasons]

I really appreciate you re-addressing this topic. Not that I wanted you to say what I THOUGHT, but that you saw the previous comments and decided to reassess. Thanks for all your vids!

[@AD-nk3ik]

I didn't see the comments on your other video but I've LOVED watching you over the past year since discovering you channel Dec 2018. So informative, helpful, and FUN! I didn't know a thing about woodworking 18 months ago. Today, I make (and sell!) an average of two custom projects a month. You and your channel are awesome! Thanks for the continual updates!

[@SpecificLove7]

Great info, I can save some money, Thanks

[@andrewwatson9805]

To be honest, I watched your previous episode and thought, "Well, that's his opinion." I have a biscuit joiner and use it infrequently, but found it a blessing when making a butcher block table top. It just made alignment so much easier. But, as you say, it is a bit of a luxury given its infrequent use. I also wondered if you had the right blade in your old one, or possibly the wrong biscuits. The fit is tight with mine. Merry Christmas to you and yours, and a fantastic 2020 for all.

[@bighands69]

Do some research and you will find that a biscuit jointer can be used for more than alignment. You can even make tables, cabinets and so with them.

[@CindyL4261]

Yay! You bought the same Biscuit Joiner I have! And I am so impressed at your ability to step back and take another look. Well done.

[@tayleanruatha]

Great video! The more of your work I watch the more I respect your outlook and enjoy your sense of humor. I've been around wood working all my life but am finally setting up my own shop and find your thought on the subject balanced and helpful. Would love to see a level II to your basics videos as your have a knack for teaching. Cheers (Will be purchasing your course as soon as the snow melts :P)

[@JayWC3333]

I used my biscuit jointer to attach stretchers to table legs... I built mine 13 years ago and although people say there is no/limited strength to biscuits, the table is still solid. If I made it now I would do mortise and tenon...but it works!

[@spunkmeyer43]

It's not that there is no strength... it's just the strength they add is less than the strength the glue gives normally... so they dont add any extra strength...

[@JayWC3333]

@@spunkmeyer43 No, not in this case. They do add strength how I used them. I joined stretchers (end grain) to the legs (long grain). There would be zero glue strength. The biscuits became loose tenons in my table. So, your comment is not accurate. My point was people say the biscuit itself is weak. I'm saying, while they may be weak on their own, they have held up okay in my small table.

[@spunkmeyer43]

@@JayWC3333 but obviously they would add marginal strength to end grain ad glue is all but ineffective... however no one should be considering biscuits for that use...

[@JayWC3333]

@@spunkmeyer43We're going around in circles. In fact you're typing what I had already said above and you seem to be trying to prove you're right where it's not needed. I know the end grain glue thing already. In fact I already typed that there is zero strength for that condition above. You're preaching to the choir. My point is: when I was new in the woodworking hobby I did use biscuits for the table legs. So, I did consider them and they did work despite what everyone says. The biscuits have given more than marginal strength. Do you understand what I'm saying now?

[@spunkmeyer43]

@@JayWC3333 I do... and I disagree... the biscuits havent added strength.

[@DavidJWatson16]

Just started farting around with woodworking due to staying at home for social distancing. Just wanted to drop a thank you for all the info throughout your videos.

[@Chris-ph2mz]

Hi Steve, new wood worker here, really love the craft and wisdom you share. Thank you for all of the informative videos. Keep on being awesome!

[@Campitor]

I have a biscuit joiner and I find it invaluable for gluing up large cabinets - it keeps everything on the same plane when trying to square up a piece during glue up assembly. And it helps reduce the number of clamps needed to keep everything aligned. I agree it's a specialized tool but it works great for its intended uses.

[@00dahc]

Remember to reference the top of the board with the auxiliary fence and not just setting joiner on the table top.

[@milesgentry2561]

That advice is worthless for building carcasses. In fact the opposite. There are many applications where you must reference the table. All depends on the joint. Also, mitered joints require the reference to be inside, not outside. These machines have many uses, not just merely edge joints. Keep learning, it's fun. Cheers.

[@jonah3236]

Is it just me or does he get younger?

[@FirstLast-zr9cy]

Jonah Vimalathasan - could be the haircut. But learning new things is what keeps us all young. 😉

[@chuckf4333]

@@FirstLast-zr9cy It's the haircut !!!

[@tataskyful3586]

He is doing good. Money and time makes u look young

[@TC-dw6wg]

I'm guessing, but do you guys realize that Steve was very sick? More likely due to change in diet and habits, rather than money and time.

[@RedHeadsRising]

Steve found the secret to immortality but graces us mere mortals with his knowledge and wisdom... when it comes to woodworking anyway

[@stephenkenney729]

I'm a high end custom cabinet maker. I worked in 8 different shops in the Boston area in the last 35 years. Every one of those shops had a biscuit jointer. We use to call them Lamello biscuit jointers because they still had the patent on them and no one could copy it. They were golden yellow painted. Great for shelf edges and flushing things up. Perfect for gluing up stuff that would more around with glue.

[@petermiddo]

Im glad you enjoyed the biscuit joiner, but absolutely LOVE the begginers focus of this channel. PLEASE DONT MOVE AWAY FROM THAT!

[@ds1755]

This was a good test. One suggestion, you should try the “Yellow Brand Blade” in your 15 year old biscuit joiner. That might make the slots tighter for your 15 year old machine. 🤔🤔

[@boydmerriman]

I also noticed that you depended solely on the biscuit alone when gluing up, that is, you didn't spread the glue on the face of the wood itself as you did the other. If done in addition to gluing the joints itself as you did the second (w/o bisc.) then I think you would have an even stronger joint.

[@HondoTrailside]

+1 Though people often don't glue the biscuits when they are used for alignment. This may go back to some theories when they first came out here about glued biscuits telegraphing when boards were edge jointed with them. Since edge joints are 100% anyway, they came up with the idea of not gluing them, plus it makes the glue up easier if it is going to potential kick off on you before you get everything in the clamps. I have never had telegraphing myseld.

[@marktourtellotte1336]

Woodworking sanctuary is the most appropriate term I have heard for a shop. I can be creative, productive and have peace of mind in my shop. Thanks for your honest videos.

[@rayian5891]

I've always used a biscuit joiner for assembling kitchen and bathroom cabinet boxes. Add a couple of screws to pull it together while the glue sets. Very simple system

[@kanoebee1060]

I've watch you for the longest time, and like your show. but on the biscuit joiner don't shove the biscuit all the way in on the first wood ,. When you clamp it together it will be more even on both side. Love your show.

[@tmbaccigalopi]

I dabble occasionally working with my tools but I kept saying “don’t put it all the way in” but I may now have to get a biscuit joiner

[@argotungsten4336]

Great vid . Great content . I’m also a Norm fan. I actually bought a Porter Cable biscuit jointer . I think that’s the exact brand I saw him use at one point . I’m not sure about the Dewalt , but the other has a depth setting for different size biscuits . That may help center the biscuits between each half a little better . Also , if not kept dry, old biscuits can swell up , so be careful of that . So as long as the biscuits are still in good shape , the depth of cut correspond with the correct size biscuit , your experience with this will be more pleasant 😊. If I’m saying something you already know , sorry to state the obvious to you. Anyways, I enjoyed this vid more that I did the last one 😉. But both gave good points . Be well sir 👍

[@bmausmus]

I agree with many of the points you made. I don't like single-use tools because I feel they're wasteful of both money and space. The one time a year I'd need to do that, I'll just use dowels. Thanks for another great video!

[@jamessychak981]

I wish I lived next to Steve. Man he'd be a great neighbor. Plus I could borrow HIS biscuit joiner

[@paulwaldrop]

That's good, cause 2 days before you put that video out, I bought a high dollar bisquit jointer. I am making doors, out of 2x4s, and think that is the best way to minimize unevenness. Takes a real man to admit that he doesn't have the tools for the job... :D

[@CharlesReiche]

Should have got the porter cable 557. Lamello biscuit joiner put me through college. My dad built furniture with Lamellos since the 80s.

[@christophercharles9645]

It's probably been mentioned elsewhere in the comments, but a great use for biscuit joinery is to use them dry (no glue) for butted shelf seams for closet or cabinet shelves. A biscuit joiner can definitely be a very useful tool, but unless you're a working carpenter you probably won't need one unless you get into cabinet work. Stay on friendly terms with your buddy who's a carpenter and borrow it. Just return it clean and maybe throw in the rest of the container of biscuits!