I Played The New Submarines...

Really hoping these subs don't make it into the game.
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[@hiddentruth1982]

from what I've seen of ww2 documentaries the subs weren't really used for fighting large groups of war ships but more for taking out convoys that had a couple of war ships. there were subs around battles but they didn't engage in the battles. they were more like spotters and look outs.

[@EvoraGT430]

Correct.

[@curbacz16]

Yeah that was the American submarine role in midway iirc

[@aristosachaion_]

Coming at this issue from a historical angle is never a good idea, given the amount of historically inaccurate bullshit we have going on. If you approach this purely from a gameplay standpoint, people will usually have no reliable counter because, let's be real, the vast majority of players who defend these broken classes never look at it from a gameplay perspective, and if they do, it's always in the light of situations that would never happen in a real game.

[@jaimemetcher388]

There were a lot of warship sunk or damaged by subs quite apart from convoy escorts. But you're right in that it was more often while they were in transit, not during fleet actions so much.

[@Warhamsterxxx]

And that means absolutely nothing to WG.

[@hav0c406]

I was that Elbing in the video and granted I was shooting in open water but to have no ability to go dark because the sub was 5k away from me is annoying and the fact that the torp reloads are insanely fast and the homing torps actually do a decent chunk of HP is busted imo, I was miles away from those first 4 torps that hit me for 3/4 of my HP and to see them whip a 90 and hit me while I was unspotted is not fun. Good video tho PQ

[@Choukai_Chan]

Feel your pain mate, subs are just not made for this game...atleast in that way.

[@IlIlIlIlIlIlIIlIlIlIlIlIlIIIII]

Ah I see you in randoms pretty often and you're a very good player. It's just sickening to have subs in game to completely negate skill. It's one thing for PQ to dumpster you but I've had 40 percenter trash do the exact same thing because it's piss easy even for mouth breathers. WG truly wants unicums to leave the game so the biggest shitters at the bottom of the pyramid can achieve 47% winrates and play marginally more so WG can make a few extra cents.

[@jorgesagastu]

Feel you dude. It is even harder, I think, when you are in a BB.

[@markbaker3172]

I find if a sub gets spotted, it is best to jump on it, goings-on deep he still has problems with depthcharges so

[@xsouldriverx]

I think what also helps the tankiness is AWS Planes and depth charges all seem to have random effective ranges, depth charge number, and damage. Some cruisers have huge plane range, some BBs only have 5k, some cruisers have only regular depths so they have to be above a sub to do anything. The Shermann has 16 very high damage depths per charge, other DDs have less than half that both in depth number and damage.

[@davidb3352]

If you're in a battleship and sub appears within the minimum range of your planes, you can't do anything Also, subs can yolo ram you whenever they want if they have any battery left.

[@xsouldriverx]

@@davidb3352 i played subs once, it ended 1v1 with me against the other sub. I won by slowly rising up under him to tap ram him, i survived with 1 hp.

[@175gOFdisc]

even the huge plane range for some ships is only around 8-10km and a sub can ping perpendicular to you at full speed from 12km

[@1338Sunshine]

The history of sub warfare and the fictionalized development of wee gee sub warfare is a night and day comparison. I would hope that wee gee/lesta goes belly up trying to force the subs onto it's player base. That would be poetic justice.

[@Smenkhaare]

This...

[@Skerra-kk6sm]

I think the homing mechanic is what really ruined subs for everybody. The constant pingng and torps that can curve around islands was just too much. I think single fire, high damage torpedoes, with relatively quick reload would have worked a lot better. Maybe even throw in a deep water mechanic where if you launch your torpedoes while submerged, you can get an increased damage strike against larger targets while not being able to hit destroyers. Gives the subs a useful gimmick while still requiring a decent amount of skill to use.

[@samuelhakansson6680]

There are a lot of other issues as well, apart from the ping. One is that subs still tend to outspot DDs, automatically making them the hunters instead of the hunted (by what is supposed to be their counter class). They also move way too fast for a DD to ever catch them even if they do spot each other. The subs also have way too liberal use of their dive mechanic when they need to disengage, and their current health (and the way damage on subs work), make them even tankier than DDs to begin with. Subs just completely powercreep the DD class into obsoletion in their current state.

[@KapitanPoop]

I’ve been around since Closed Beta… this game used to reward skill and strategy…. Now it’s a brain dead gameplay of mobile phone app. I stopped playing 2 years ago…. Got back in 2 weeks ago to try out the German battle cruisers as an effective unit to push with… surrounded by. V focussing single ships, HE Spammers at 22 km, and of course these wonderful interactive submarines

[@sambrown8224]

Nothing worse that being chased by these things in a tier X BB and not being able to get away. Torp after torp after torp! This play style has got me ready to walk away after playing since Alpha.

[@snafufubar]

Starting to think that if I get chased like this will notify team, stop bb and return to port. What's the point of just amusing some sub jockey for 5 minutes.

[@Caleb-zu1pk]

That is annoying

[@Swarm509]

Even with teammates they often cannot do much without sacrificing either health/ship or key positions. All you can do as a BB is run away hope like hell your blind airdrops hit (and when they do it barely matters). There is no real counter play to a submerged sub. Also the pings themselves are just annoying as hell.

[@ilius1987]

I had a few months off after repeatedly fighting chkalov and subs in ranked, unable to influence the game unless I turn to the dark side myself.

[@rudolvonstroheim6634]

I somewhat agree but cvs make me even more annoyed honestly

[@Macaroni139]

Submarines should only be available in the convoy escort gamemode. They do not fit in the everyday random and competitive games of world of warships There i said it

[@coyote4961]

And I 100% agree.... there, I said it!

[@aristosachaion_]

Sadly a large chunk of the playerbase is too dumb to realize that.

[@rayvaul3539]

Agreed. The matches are so much more imbalanced and I get sunk wayyy too often

[@EvoraGT430]

Or revive the 2019 Halloween event.

[@Smenkhaare]

The only game that had halfway decent subs was Steel Ocean the Chinese game that was an earlier competitor of WOWS. I played both. The two games side by side had their own advantages. Neither had it all. In Steel Ocean you could also control all of your secondaries on every ship from the beginning. What killed it in Europe, North America and Australia was its uber toxic racist chat and the lack of opponents after a while. In a lot of respects the gameplay was better with subs from the beginning. WOWS should just have subs as a special class in convoy mode. They are too used to easy money. I have played BB's, CA's, CL's and DD's against subs and it has been heartbreaking to see the subs dominate. Just terrible. I now only play Tier 8 on down. Pretty soon I will stop playing in total. Thanks for nothing WOWS.

[@palerider898]

Submarines need to embrace the glass cannon nature that they are. Get rid of pings and homing torpedoes. Dumb-fire only, big damage. Wipe a ship off the map if you play it right, fine. All ships should get updated mini map position on a sub unless they are moving 1/4 speed or stopped (hydrophone spotting). Make it within a certain range if you want, does the same job. Less health; if you get spotted on the surface, you should get nuked. Period. If someone drops an accurate depth charge on you, nuked. Increased dive time. Again, if they move anything more than 1/4 speed or stopped, everyone knows where they are. So limiting this no longer makes sense. increased torpedo reload time. In line with destroyers, maybe a little under. 90 seconds minimum. Keep the oil slicks if damaged. Add in a proxy spot mechanic if ships are close and sub is moving too fast. Hydro consumable ignores subs, since all ships have passive sub hydro now. and voila, you have the hunter killer a sub should actually be. Still annoying? Yes. More engaging? I think so More fun? ymmv.

[@aristosachaion_]

Honestly, simply removing the homing mechanic and having their last known position indicated on the minimap when they send out pings would make them a lot more engaging to play against.

[@geekonomist]

There should be full spotting whenever a sub pings. That sub should be spotted on the minimap, at the very least.

[@stork6855]

Have you seen what people can do with any coordination Literally watched a group of random BB players nuke a T10 sub that was never spotted from only like 5 pings I would hate to see what people could do if you literally mark it on the map for them

[@lapislazuli1447]

@@stork6855 "a group of random BB players nuke a T10 sub that was never spotted from only like 5 pings" man if a DD stay between a group of BBs she would be dead after accidentally touching the fire button, not just "how could I die, I just wanna stay stationary and punch everyone without them even knowing"

[@Daedricbob]

Or at least a significant detection radius bloom so it becomes a risk vs reward choice

[@denis4096]

They have to get rid of the ping spamming or better get rid of the sub's. The mechanic is broken and sub's don't belong in randoms, ranked... They might be fun in special modes or events but not in the regular battles.

[@geekonomist]

@@stork6855 I would hate to tell you that an elite crowd does not a general case make. I would hate to tell you that subs must be punished for their outrageous risk taking.

[@txdeskpop]

my experience as mostly DD player is, i get pinged and i die, no good counter without a pack of ships hunting subs, they need to be slower under water than they are on surface

[@visiondr]

Agreed. Subs are far too fast in the game.

[@steeltrap3800]

Yes, you are correct about subs NOT wanting to announce their presence other than through a devastating ambush with torpedoes. They were somewhat fragile, especially to any sort of gunfire of 4" or greater. Even so, some did survive some surprising things such as being rammed. They are more accurately called submersibles as they really were surface vessels that could dive. Wasn't until the Type XXI that we saw a sub that was intended NEVER to run on the surface and indeed had a higher top speed submerged. Not that you can tell any of that from this absurd game play. What we're seeing in game is about as relevant to WW2 submarines as are giraffes.

[@ilius1987]

Lol battle giraffes😆

[@quintiax]

Giraffes are heartless creatures

[@TGNXAR]

With paper ships, CVs, and stats that bear no relation to actual ship capabilities, "historical accuracy" is not relevant in an arcade shooter.

[@steeltrap3800]

​@@TGNXAR Why, then, are so many ships limited to their real life speeds and armaments, even IF those armaments don't function anything like they did historically? I mean, why bother AT ALL with any of it being tied to reality? Be a lot easier not to, yet in many cases they have. Sure, only in certain respects, yet they have. The three that are most common across all classes are the models, the armament (note Musashi is in the original config with the wing 3x6" Mogami turrets, for example, while Yamato is post the massive AA upgrades where those turrets were removed), and almost always their real life speeds. Subs? Utter clown car nonsense in that crucial respect. Kind of stick out like dogs' balls, don't they. If historical accuracy isn't accurate, why has WG gone to so much trouble to include plenty of historically accurate details of ships? Curious. Besides which, even IF it "has no relevance", I fail to see how anyone with a functional cerebral cortex could think subs as they are make sense yet alone are a positive addition to the game. And THAT DOES have relevance, arcade lunacy or not. Game is still meant to be fun, isn't it? Pity WG doesn't pay as much attention to it as they do the many things that apparently DON'T matter, LOL.

[@TGNXAR]

@Steeltrap "So many" meaning "there are works of fiction in here, I just don't want to admit you are right." Subs are not accurate, at all. Neither are carriers. Subs got pumped up to be playable, and carriers got dumbed down so they wouldn't dominate. And carriers *still* dominated with their high skill ceiling and SUPERUNICOM players until the rework. Complaining about historical accuracy is laughable, at this point. They use historically accurate *models*, that doesn't mean they function in any way close to how they did IRL. Unless you think hit point bars floating over a ship is realistic. But to the point that they aren't a good fit right now? Maybe. But the "historical accuracy" nonsense needs to stop. Talk about gameplay, and what something adds to the game. Are subs fun to play against? I find them interesting, both to play as and against, but I'm also a former submariner and I'd like to see if WG could work this out. Last note, I think a lot of grief is due to people not wanting their previous understanding of how to play to be obsolete. New things challenge that.

[@spiritusmundi5398]

In their present state, I do not believe that submarines belong in this game. For example, I was focused down by a sub during an entire battle when I was playing a Tier X battleship. In fact, I spent the entire 12 min of that battle just dodging torpedoes from that Tier X sub and trying to kill it with my depth charges. In fact, I could not spot the sub at all for the entire duration of its attack on me, and I had to make educated guesses as to where to deploy my depth charges. In fact, I managed to do 20k damage on the sub but I still could not kill it. How is it that subs are so tanky, maybe even more tanky than destroyers at the same tier?

[@stork6855]

The fact that you managed to nearly kill a ship without seeing it once is a thing on its own... Yes dodging torps is annoying But a sub gets spotted once and basically loses half of it's HP unlike a DD that can dodge... People would lose their shit if you could deal damage with a miss against destroyers Don't get me wrong from me defending though I don't like subs in the game I'm just saying after playing them and against them (Haven't done the American sub so I don't know if it differs that much from the German all in all)

[@Swarm509]

It is obvious the game was never designed to have subs in it, and even since the first beta WG said they would never add subs and they didn't fit the game. If they wanted subs, super ships, and CV's they really need to work on World of Warships 2 and have these in from the start with solid gameplay mechanics around them.

[@jaimemetcher388]

Here's a "historical accuracy" idea: make subs slow af, and have them spawn submerged anywhere on the map (yes, even in the opposing spawn). If you queue up in a sub, you'll have a pretty good chance of spending the whole game trying to get to the battle. But you might also spawn under the enemy CV and bingo! Queue up all the "this is an arcade game" comments. I know, I know, just thinking what the gameplay equivalent of RL subs tactics would be: almost stationary picket lines that something big an expensive would sometimes blunder into.

[@timsellers4946]

“But mah submersible super car that shoots belt fed guided underwater missiles?!?! How will I EVER get any kills this way?!?!”

[@jingles7127]

i got really frustrated today after being dev-struck 2 round in a row by a sub that I cannot even spot. think I might leave this game for a bit 😢

[@everty4707]

I uninstalled it just two days ago. It’s ruined man.

[@jedz5151]

I've been playing ranked only recently since there's no sub in that mode

[@rileychu4489]

the problem is subs can just park beside an island and keep you perma pinged while you have to angle from artillery threats...doesnt even need to chase you

[@jingles7127]

@@rileychu4489 infinite pings pings pings pings pings pings pings pings Subs don’t have to fire a single torp to make a surface ship player die of anxiety😟

[@roberthermann97]

@@jingles7127 Lol, true on the anxiety from pings. But the spotting bit, that's no different with DD / BB. I think most ppl just don't know how to deal with subs yet. Since I played subs some, I find them less of a hassle in surface ships.

[@darkhawk4863]

Friend of mine served in the Navy, specifically on submarines. He's adamant that submarines don't belong in this game, because, throughout their history, submarines' primary mission profile has *never* involved fleet battle actions. If they're travelling with a fleet, that just lets the enemy know they're there, which is the last thing a sub wants. They're meant to be solo operators/raiders, not a fleet vessel, until they need to meet up with a fleet support vessel to resupply, which obviously wouldn't be happening in a combat zone.

[@scharnhorst_42]

Modern subs, yes, 'cause they're actually submarines. We are talking about WWII submersibles. I.E. the Gato Class is specifically designed to be a Fleet support vessel, and in battles like Midway, performed scout duties for the fleet and infact in Midway we lost a DD, Hammann due to Japanese Fleet Submarine, I-168, action. Do submarines deserve to be in this game? History leans either way, but due to the casual nature of the game and focus on ship to ship combat, I don't think they belong, but let's stop this fake history everyone is spouting or modern equivalency.

[@scharnhorst_42]

Now, for ships under the German Navy, of course the subs operated outside the fleet in 'Wolfpacks" but that is completely out of sheer necessity. The Kriegsmarine did not have the battle fleet in which to build a submarine capable of support made any sense. But every nation has differing opinions on which ships were meant for which role and to say as a general statement "They're meant to be solo operators/raiders, not a fleet vessel" is disingenuous and not at all based on historical fact.

[@kajarslibrary5404]

@@scharnhorst_42 The royal navy tried the fleet submarine and it did just not work. Submarines are way too slow for fleet combat. By the time they would get into range, the battle would be long over. Multiple nations did try those fleet submarines and all of them abandoned that idea again pretty quickly.

[@ForTheOmnissiah]

this game isn't even remotely historically accurate, moot point. It's a videogame that takes huge inspiration from real-world history, but does not simulate it.

[@BigJaseNZ]

Destroyers should be immune to pings. They're a class of ship specifically designed for hunting subs.

[@rudolvonstroheim6634]

Nah they are manouverable enough

[@TGNXAR]

@@rudolvonstroheim6634 Yeah. Torps aren't that hard to dodge. I've seen plenty BBs dodge torps even.

[@samuelhakansson6680]

The ping isnt even the main problem. The problem for DDs vs subs is that you tend to get outspotted, which is a matter of life and death for a DD. Even if the sub couldnt torp you, you would generally be insane to try to charge a sub, because he will keep you lit while kiting and be able to disengage at will, whereas 11 other guys stand ready to blap the DD going in for a sub kill. Generally you just want to stay away from subs in a DD.

[@secutor7142]

This is why subs will break wows. I mean, HOMING torpedoes? What’s next, heat seeking rocket planes?

[@superspies32]

if that thing added, I would rather play War Thunder because at least I have something to counter those

[@Studio-7V]

Every time you play subs now I see the sleepy sheep gif from last video 😂

[@rayvaul3539]

I admit that I used to be optimistic and a bit skeptical about submarines being added to Random Battles. But now that I fought against them a large chunk of times, and tried them out a few times in the past months and such, I completely changed my mind. I want them *GONE* now. They’re so game-breaking and ruins the balance. I get sunk so much more these days now. I’m nearly always am in a bad and seriously annoyed attitude whenever I get off the game for each day I play. Good content that you make btw Potato 🥔!

[@samueljames0908]

The concept of submarines fighting in surface engagements with fleets is simply absurd. Their only real purpose is to attack commerce and logistics. Submarines had to judiciously avoid detection as they are extremely fragile. A single hole in the hull could render one unable to dive, leaving it as good as dead. All this being said, I think this is a type of vessel that will always have a difficult time fitting into WoW.

[@AGS34]

WG needs to increase both torp reload and increase the sonar ping time to ~20-30 seconds, as the attacks are similar to BB overmatch and little to no options exist to avoid the damage. What would counter the nerf would be spotting damage and giving subs a major points boost for spotting while undetected. In the current state is OP cheese and is entirely game breaking.

[@deepbludreams]

Atleast being shot at by a battleship you have the chance for him to miss, homing torps don't tend to do that.

[@thinkhappythoughts8098]

Great vid, really enjoy your insights. For me one of the biggest problems with subs, which makes them even more painful than playing against a good CV is that when you are under attack you have to drop everything to deal with it. Positioning, angling, stealth none of these matter because bottom line an underwater A10 has its laser guided torpedo gatling gun pointed at you and it will hit you , and keep hitting you until it gets bored or your evasion means that BB you did not notice because you are trying to dodge all the torpedoes in the game and have been for the last five minutes chows down on your citadel.

[@BruderRaziel]

Left a comment under your Worcester vid about my first experience against a sub while driving a BB, just minutes before this dropped. I have to say, after seeing this, I feel a bit better. That match left me doubting myself as I felt utterly helpless and at the mercy of my opponent. Now, seeing how it works, I know for sure that it wasnt my lack of skill or understanding and there really was no way for me to win the engagement or get out of it. I hate it. I hate it so much. Another round I decided to hunt a sub in my Kita, he was trying to cap so I got brief rpf intel. Managed to sneak up on him using Islandcover, I am almost directly on top of him as he dives to max depth. One depth charge hit him but of course now I was behind him, having to make a full turn while he runs at DD speed underwater. When I finally reached the last oil slick I saw all I could do was guess randomly... in an open ocean. So I decided to just stay put, wait out his dive capacity, which worked but it took so long and it felt so clumsy. Now I question if I got lucky, cause he didnt try anything fancy to maybe shotgun or torp me otherwise. Just ran at max depth until he couldnt and that was the end. I thought it would be impossible for me to hate fighting a shipclass more than I loathe the abominable CV, but WG managed to make an even more protected class that breaks all the rules you learn in surface ships. Maybe its time for a break from this game.

[@noahboyd57]

I sneak up to 3km from enemy BBs at periscope depth. Almost dev strike full health BBs without getting spotted.

[@megabear163]

What if the ping had a 25s reload? Subs couldn't just spam pings, dcp would have more time to recharge, and DDs would get a window to push them.

[@anivicuno9473]

Then they would be closer to balanced and no one would want to play them. Then certain people won't get their bonuses. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing

[@papay9772]

Good sub players don t use ping that much because it gives away position, those who spam ping all the time are amateurs.

[@zixinxia194]

The thing is that there are too little things that kill submarines, we need anti-sub torpedo, ship launched depth charger

[@superspies32]

@@papay9772 Usually I use ping to waste repair party of CV. Super effective, then the CV is death by flooding from my torp and fire from BB shots or CA shots

[@ArthurGervasio]

@@superspies32 That is a very good tatic man, i've never thought about that

[@038alpha]

The way i'm having fun in subs is not using homing torpedoes unless it's a DD or another sub, best part is managing to sneak 3km away from a BB and unleashing your 6 regular torps into him without even being seen nor pinging

[@ComeonmenID10T]

the subs not only "feel" tankie ......they actually ARE the more tankie compared to DD's, Flamu just made a video about it, took him 46 HE, 24 SAP rounds and 19 depth charges to kill a sub at Periscope depth, surfaced and at 30m depth

[@dalenielsen8651]

subs are pushing me into coop, and out of battleships. Soon it will push me to complete disinterest. The counterplay is inadequate, to say the least.

[@crispy61100]

subs are pushing me into ranked, I just can't face randoms right now. Bonus is I have a lot more steel than anticipated

[@EvoraGT430]

@@crispy61100 Been the same for months - much better all round.

[@sardaukerlegion]

The actually most hated class is able to Ping-Torp even a Mogador.

[@vegas6908]

These subs are by far the dumbest things that they added to this game.

[@Desklamp1234]

had a sub surface about 5km from my schlieffen. my secondaries killed it in seconds from full hp

[@zane660]

That just always feels great😂

[@Desklamp1234]

@@zane660yea, probably one of the best feeling moments ive had in a few months playing wows

[@cheefadareafer]

I need to play my Schlieffen more strong ship in certain circumstances

[@moopmoop26]

@@cheefadareafer i only feel strong with it when the secondaries start firing lol

[@fluffysnowgryph4527]

And that's probably why WG is nerfing the secondarys again because you managed to kill a protected class, killing protected classes = fun, and we all know that fun is not allowed.

[@eknight2904]

There would be an easy way to create a fun sub experience: create a special convoi scenario and have one team in subs hunt the convois and one team with DDs hunt the subs. But you cannot balance this class suitably into the normal battles, as they make no sense in the game this way, they have no role to play the way they are constructed. Same true for CVs in my mind.

[@larswhitt1549]

Subs, should fear dds, and see them as a near death experince just to be in their sight.. now, they just run, and if that failes throw 6 torps into their now and they die... Maybe make all sub torps deep water, and then buff their torps, or make dds able to spot subs before subs can detect a dd.. someting in the battle between dds and subs need to change, as it is now, it is just so bad i simple refuse to play in game modes with subs...

[@user-jw5ik7pu3f]

I actually don't know fuel spill is a thing before I watched this cuz of course I don't want to play these subs either. And the day before yesterday I had a game in my Sejong when a sub sailed right beneath my ship in the canal of the Two Brothers without being detected, but I have no idea those slight graphic changes on the surface indicated his location. WG has put too many gimmicky trivial mechanics with these subs that just don't work with the rest of the game.

[@kenny9021043]

I was in my Montana being chased by one of these rats. In the midst of me getting railed by the sub, he got a little too close for comfort and I was able to dev strike him while he was at periscope depth. Best feeling of my career in this game after being harassed for a majority of the game. It really sucks as a BB main to be completely helpless to these things. BB’s are literally free meat to subs and it’s broken AF. There’s absolutely no counter play.

[@cbatucker]

Ah yes, no counterplay. Because this is a game that has no teammates and that you arnt supposed to work together. Oh yeah I forgot BB's only care about themselves and their k/d ratio and give little to no shit about the game unless something can just barely touch them in their ivory ego towers. How dare weegee add in a existent boat in non-realistic battles with half paperships half real ones where BB's can instakill any other ship in the game from cross map. How dare they. Get stuffed.

[@kenny9021043]

@@cbatucker relax bro it’s really not that deep

[@birgirgujonsson1254]

Submarines were never in battles, they hunted freight/troop ships and damaged was ships. For that reason alone they should not be in WOWs battles. WG should make a scenario with subs hunting freighters and some DD and cruisers hunting.

[@jasondiaz8431]

The Japanese tried to but it was a waste of precious resources. Though they did sink the USS Hornet.

[@Salty_Balls]

@@jasondiaz8431 More correctly subs were ambush predators and sank anything they could line up on. Also, it was USS Wasp, not Hornet, that was sunk by what many consider the luckiest spread of torpedoes ever launched, that also hit the North Carolina and the destroyer O'brien. Other notable warships sunk by subs were Atago, Maya, Shinano, Taiho, Shokaku, Kongo, USS Juneau and USS Indianapolis.

[@domobran7]

Submarines in World War 2 were not used in fleet battles because they were simply too slow. Also, sonar was a thing in World War 2, and yes, submarines that got hit died very quickly.

[@sdluke]

I was playing Minne one day and a red sub just surfaced under me and rammed me for 2k dmg. He died lol

[@ruffianeo3418]

Lots of fun stuff to point out here :) 1. There is a "faster ping" captain skill. How is that supposed to work? The speed of sound under water is what gives the "speed" of a ping. So there is no way to get a "faster ping". Any sci fi nerd would laugh their butt off if they saw that in a Sci Fi movie. 2. In WWII there were no CPUs with clever software in torps. So, if the sub pings a target, the best you could hope for at that time was that the torps in the water catch up and update their current heading towards the ping. This should never have them follow maneuvering ships. If the torps had some pings of their own to track the ships as they change direction - now that would make some sense, at least. 3. More game related: I played the tier 6 subs for a bit (maybe 10 battles). I had a fun race with my cachelot vs a New Mexico with speed flag... and it was a draw. And it is hard to get to a position to fight a lemming train, pushing at full speed, because you cannot reach a good spot in time on those smaller low tier maps. I often got overrun in those situations and short dive time and slow speed underwater does not help to disengage. So, you have to apply the same strategy as a New York or New Mexico would apply in those lemming situations: Run early, kite and fight later. Also, on tier 6, DD out spot the subs, not the other way around. So the subs are much less powerful/more balanced down in those lower tiers. 4. I saw it twice in my few games, that one team actually had won the game already (more cap points, more and healthier ships), but just because the "losing" side still had a sub, while the other team only had bb and cruisers left, it was just a farming fiesta to turn the game around. You could not have done the same with a remaining DD because torp reload times are too slow and no ping means you also miss a lot against maneuvering ships.

[@zoolouthescrub5187]

That Harbin player is the main shot caller for our clan battles A team. We are giving him shit about it.

[@justinmiller3883]

Subs are the new sky cancer but underwater. The only thing I hate is the escapability they have. As long as you have good team play they can be countered, but that's rare these days.

[@saxonian6634]

My issue is the technology imbalance. Subs get homing torps (which weren't really all that effective until sort of 1944 ish) and yet my destroyer doesn't have the sonar or radar capacity that ships designed to fight subs were equipped with 'specifically' to help them fight subs. So subs get all the tools they need, whilst those designed to hunt them don't have the tools they need. That's where the real imbalance is for me. Subs are also way too tanky, sure a sub could survive a depth charge hit, but when you see 9 depth charge hits and it's still at half HP then something is pretty wrong. WG have never minded glass cannons in this game, and that's where subs should fit in. In summary, destroyers should have tools for actively hunting subs, and subs should be more fragile.

[@francobam3832]

The level of insanity WG is bringing into the game is unbelievable. I played a long time at european server some years ago. Now that I live in SEA I tried again here. After a few weeks I just gave up. There are so many "pay to win" options visible (they not really are paying out, but this is to find out after spending money...). You need to be: high skilled or very wealthy or have a super high level of frustration tolerance. As I am a casual player and don´t have one of this I am out. I think WG is targeting exactly people like me. Being interested, SPEND SOME MONEY and gtfo. The next one is already knocking at the door. They are not interested on highly skilled players - only for fancy streams and videos. And so they are not interested on fair and sensitive game mechanics.

[@arrrgee]

The title should be "I PLAYED THE NEW SUBMARINES AND THEY ARE A MISTAKE AND SHOULD BE REMOVED PERMANENTLY"

[@going_gone5009]

I need to wait for Boggzy to stream one evening and load in with a Sub. Then hopefully sync drop so I can constantly ping and spam torp the crap out of him! Unless we repay the favor then the message can't be properly relayed back to the developers how much sub counter play sucks!

[@armando2814]

i wish you good luck let us hope that you will succeed

[@Dcarp7]

Yeah, I sank a few subs lately. It has been interesting. I think I have been sunk by 1 sub so far in my random battles that I played. At this point, I think it is down to personal preference. I played subs and figured out how they work. So, that at least helps in countering. But, it can be annoying when you get hard-focused by one.

[@1LRLRG]

between subs and the super carriers will not even be trying T10

[@davidryan6121]

The frustration is real .... thx PQ

[@zakyrath]

One thing that could help balance subs is to slow them down to more historical speeds. Not many subs were zooming around above 20 knots till the 60's. Plus getting something like a S-class in US tier 5 going 15 knots could help teach the players how to deal with them. By starting with top tier world war 2 subs instead of the clumsy and loud subs that every nation started with really shot them in the foot for balancing.....

[@wramsey2656]

WG must add radio location skill to every ship class (not just to DDs and some CLs). It will help prevent the subs from sneaking up on the surface ship unaware. Commanders can then choose the RL skill as part of their build.

[@hugohabicht6274]

how did you install the banner/icon pack? I can't find the particular one you got in the official mod menu....

[@DudeSweet2121]

What mod do you use in the bottom left (with your ship and the targeted ship shown)?

[@giovybez8061]

It's funny I dev struck a Harbin just moments before you mentioned it.

[@unowno123]

Yeah like you already said, they do very little damage, are slow, but hard to deal with its neither fun for the player, nor fun for the defender it makes sense why everyone wants to play battleship, subs can only really attack battleships or cruisers which harms the majority of the playerbase, and subs aren't a nightmare enough to make me as a battleship player scared, they get randomly spotted, and everyone spams their depth charge bombers and the problem is gone, not a very fun or good class

[@forgivemenot1]

As a light cruiser specialist I find it annoying that I can't catch them because they are so fast, the only time I've used depth charges is either I came around the corner of an island and stumbled across a sub or one got too close on purpose and allowed me to run over them, but if I was to spot one by chance I would never catch up in time and only invite eating a bunch of torps. Much like CV's they are just not fun to play against because there is no counter move or tactic or weapon that you can use to make it seem like a fair fight and really requires them to be really bad players and do dumb things to kill them.

[@MusicalMercenary]

not only does it not look like fun to play, it makes the game less enjoyable for other ship types. wg applied their usual set of disappointment to the game again.

[@steeltrap3800]

1. Make pings NOT WORK against DDs. You hit them with unguided, or you don't hit them at all. NOW let's see how happy subs will be near a DD. 2. Cut the absurd underwater speed in particular. By 50%. Even then it would be higher than real world. I think the clown car speed is one of the worst elements of this ridiculous design. 3. Make battery use a function of pings AND engine use. You run at full speed? You drain your battery quickly. Those changes MIGHT make people have to think a bit if they want to be effective with Subs. Which brings us to the issue preventing good, interesting design: WG will have sunk cost fallacy with subs, just as they do with CVs, so they'll be desperate to achieve a certain % of player use of Subs. Anything that makes people have to think for more than about 10 seconds will be seen by them as a bad idea as it will reduce the potential player numbers. Thus a design that is brainless, easy, thus as bland and ridiculous as CVs are (have you seen that obscene farce called "Eagle"?) will be regarded as great. Which is what we've seen all along. Don't expect it to change much unless WG getting out of Russia and Belarus means the development goes in a different direction than it has been under St Petersburg's direction.

[@MrCrossTd]

it would be hilarious to watch wg falling for the sunk cost fallacy when they used the same tactic on the playerbase if it didn't ruin the game i used to enjoy. I have stopped enjoying the game recently, barely have 10 games for march. They ruined ranked even with 5vs5 with comrade balansikov. I think they will start bleeding players and instead of dropping the shitty content will double down on it to maximize profit before shutting down.

[@caioaddono918]

Wonderfull Potato Quality

[@Telashar]

To be fair, subs should not be required to eliminate to win the game. Just your standard number of surface ships and skycancer. If the sub wants to hide and do nothing, let him, its a lose.

[@WolverineXXX21]

How do you unlock or where are the subs in menus?

[@glenngalen9853]

Funny, but in my 136 sub games I find BBs typically sending depth charge and hydro. You had free rein there in the first part of the video. Not typical.

[@jaywerner8415]

Yet again, i sense your only problem (and everyone elses problem) with the submarines is the PINGS and Homing torpedos. You would think Wargaming would notice this, but no they got to "ADD their GIMMICK BOAT" at all costs cus i guess thats all they can come up with these days. Other then that id say the subs have improved, they even have conventional torpedos now too, when they get hit while submerged they leak oil so they are easyer to track, and they now have limited damage cons and they buffed ASW planes a bit. The Problem is that WG fails to realize how PUNISHING it is to PUSH/Advance in World of Warships, and subs LOVE when you push into them due to their high torpedo range. Not to mention if a DD or Cruiser trys to depth charge a sub, THEY HAVE TO GO TO THEM. Same with the depth charge planes.

[@Desklamp1234]

when subs use their ping they should be detected for like 3 seconds after each ping, sort of like how the surface ships are spotted from range after firing

[@artic6015]

The poor BB had no chance when torp will make a loop and come around an island to kill you, Yeh this is fair?

[@cryoine7194]

i remember once when i parked on top of a sub and drop depth charges on the dam thing with 20 depth charges before it died, a halland beside me hit it with a further 7, now imagine us doing this while having to dodge enemy fire. why are subs this tanky?

[@andrewjackson5127]

I primarily play my Daring. I find Subs are mostly easy to deal with because i can spot them with my hydro. My issue is speed. If I'm trying to depth charge a sub and he's going 30kts. straight ahead and I'm chasing him at 33.4kts. he's almost as fast as I am and it takes forever to catch up and in the meantime he may have reached his supporting ships and then I'm in trouble because he might spot me and I haven't gotten to depth-charge him yet that's really the issue I have with Subs in my daring

[@carstenhansen5757]

WG: "What can we do, besides CV's to make it easy for the kids, morons and people with diagnoses?" SUBS: HERE hold my bear!

[@batuhantunali8295]

the most annoying part is being a surface ship in t8 or 10, especially t8....had a "fungame" with amalfi vs 3 subs 1 cv in 8v8 randoms and 2 dds... does not change in t10 with super cvs and 2-3 subs each game

[@danielkirpichnikov2007]

The best way to deal with submarines is to put an idiot in charge of them. I once rammed she with cruiser and accidentally killed she. (and got achievement for this, lol)

[@namesvale5904]

if i remember right there was only one instance of a sub landing a hit on another sub to ever be recorded

[@Swarm509]

Pings really should re-home the torps once they are launched. So often I will get pinged and then suddenly see a bunch of torps turn into me that I couldn't see (because torps). This still isn't ideal but may help.

[@streater3293]

How did you get one?

[@guns12396]

Getting high damage is hard since basically every game is 4DD 2SS the total hit point pool is super low. Let alone that half the enemy team is unspotted 90% of the time

[@gothamgoon4237]

Another nail in the coffin of this game. As a BB player or really any ship you have no defense against subs. Hell, even dd's that are meant for anti sub play have next to no chance against a sub. Wargamming have completely lost their minds. I hardly play anymore now. It's pointless. Much better things to do with my time

[@Volkaer]

The only way to 'balance' the subs, is to change their dynamic to what subs were originally intended to do - spotting enemy ships, hit and run, and being detected usually meaning death. They would need to tripple if not quadripple torpedo reload time, sonar pings would show sub location, remove all damage protections against the subs, and slow the torpedo speed to about 1/2. WG will never do that though because subs would be even more 'boring' to play by the smoothbrains who complain their subs aren't doing as much damage as other ships.

[@BAZZA453]

you no subs and aircraft carriers were designed for players who just had problems shooting and aiming and playing surface ships so in other words, could not hit a barn door

[@caioaddono918]

Fantastic Conventional Submarines

[@crispy61100]

My thoughts on subs, easier just to copy paste the ticket I opened with player support "Sorry but I can't find any other way to express myself. Your game is no longer fun, no longer enjoyable. I just played a game in Georgia (T9 USA BB) with 2 T10 subs and a super carrier. I was pointless. Please undo all changes made in the last 18 months. OK, I exagerate to make my point, but aircraft carriers and submarines ended the era of battleships in real life and CVs and subs will end world of warships. I used to race home from work or wake early to play. Now I have to litterally force myself to log in and get frustrated after 1 or 2 battles. If you really care about your game and your player base please think very carefully about where you are taking us. Rant over, have a nice day." I got a polite non answer, I figure they might have more pressing things on their minds what with geopolitics

[@jaykay6321]

Let me tell something about how submarines and countering them worked in real life (I'm not an expert, just read a lot of articles about that so if I get something wrong feel free to correct me xD) WW2 subs made about 20 knots AT MAX when surfaced (more like 15-18 knots), submerged they often were slower than 10 knots (as a comparison: the nuclear-powered ohio class submarine can do about 20 knots surfaced and 25 knots when submerged) Destroyers were the submarines worst nightmare: Fast, maneuverable and armed with depth charges. The destroyer simply just moved over the last known position of the sub and throw depth charges into the water. Depending on the type of fuze they detonated when the water pressure reached a specific level, when they hit an object or when they were close to an object (I think there were some more different fuze types). A depth charge is a huge threat to a submarine.. When they explode they create a shockwave and because of the water pressure every damage to the hull of a submarine is a risk. I guess with some good placed depth charges it only needs a few of them to sink a submarine since they have no armor at all. Fun fact: A depth charge can also damage surface ships in short: submarines are slow, VERY vulnerable and as far as I know in WW2 they were only used to sink merchant ships (like the german subs against the atlantic convoys to cut UK's lifeline) TL:DR WG's submarines are not realistic at all and don't belong in a battle with surface ships

[@derrickstorm6976]

I searched "war thunder worst tank" and this was the 4th video in the queue 😂 Why tf do sub tours do 6k to a DD but only 4k to a sub??? 😵😡

[@hockey7438]

I don't get why the torps aren't just like the ones on destroyers? Why do they want the ping feature so badly?

[@karthikkumar4716]

The thing is new player come to WOWS for the sake of playing ships then they get fucked over by CVS and subs and quit. More experienced players only play ranked and clan battles or events. The mid players will just farm events where there are no subs or CVs. It's really sad tho

[@owenilagan144]

Pings acting like laser designators is one of the big problems. They ought to be changed to what they are in reality: sound waves emanating from the sub. But to balance out the fact that this removes the need to aim, the ping should only come from a limited cone of effect from the bow and stern instead of all around the sub. Plus, the sub's location is revealed to all enemies for 20 seconds if they send out pings less than 20 seconds apart from each other. And finally, if a ship triggers the repair party consumable to remove a ping while not being damaged in any other way, the cool-down time is reduced by 50% and does not reduce the counter for those who have a limited number of such consumables..

[@aaronh9556]

I also got sunk by a sub while in a DD, when sailing behind an island to loose the tops and to my surprise NOPE!!!! Sunk by torps up the WAZZU. How about some homing depth charges or DD homing torps for subs

[@globama1787]

how do you gets submarines in the game?

[@aidanwright3037]

They need to put submarines back into their own game mode. Or at the very least modify the matchmaking so you're not fighting CVs and subs at the same time.

[@patc694]

10:36 wait, what year is it again? 2019?

[@shaka2tu]

what we need is for anti-sub to be permanent on the map so no submarine can cross the same path

[@bobbyvalenzuela5496]

Submarines need to be removed from the game, it is not fair for any class to play against them and they are sadly ruining the game and making players walk away from what was once a magnificent game. It gets increasingly harder to want to play the game with subs being in the game and none of us should have to be forced to play against these broken ships in a time where we have to already be ready to counter many other things such as CVs, DDs, all while trying to position and angle correctly so we don’t get deleted off the face of the earth against BBs and contribute to the game win all at the same time. Submarines need to go

[@onaucc9899]

I generally like the idea of Submarines in the game. I know, i know, hate me. But more different playstyles are always welcome for me. HOWEVER my problem with them is that they are clearly completely overpowerd. It's absolutely not fun to play against, while playing against any other ship-tpye (except CVs of course) is somewhat fun / bearable. I don't know why Subs are so god damn tanky, that's complete bullshit. I personally would find their damage output pretty okay IF they would die like any other ship. The way i'd like Subs to play is like hyper-glasscannons. Deal a lot of damage, but when spotted / mispositioned, they sould have almost no chance of surviving that at all. Colbert is quite a good examplke for what i'd likem to see: You deal rediculous damage, but if you get cought, everything citadels you and you just get oneshot. Another thing is that the "drive over ASW" is completely useless trash. Every DD sould have them; literally every other ship, including light cruisers of course, should have the ASW Airsrike. I'd also like to see some exceptions, maybe some DDs with Airstrike and probably secondary BBs that have Airstrike AND drive-over ASW. Another nice option would be giving the player the choice between drive-over ASW and some ASW Sea Mines. Imagine if DDs instead of the useless ASW Charges would have ASW Sea Mines. They wouldn't have to risk their ship to fight the Sub, but could also lock down specific pathways Subs would / could take, which in turn would make their gameplay less boring, because there's more danger that they need to pay attention to. The sub on the other hand would have a higher risk playstyle, which in my opinion is absolutely needed, given what they can do without risking their ships. Lastly the matchmaking needs to be changed. In my opinion there CAN NOT EVER be more than 5 ships per team that rely on stealth. And that, of course, includes CVs too, because they sit at the map border and you can't see / shoot them. If that's 3 DDs + 2 Subs; 1 DD + 3 Subs + CV or whatever doesn't matter. There should be more than 50% surface ships on every team. More like 60-70%. Quick side note: there also shouldn't be more than 3 or so BBs per team, lol.

[@crispy61100]

I think the best way to make subs fair would be to insist that before someone takes out a sub they need to do the following. Not wash or shave for 3 weeks, have an open bucket of shit steaming next to their PC, close all windows and turn off AC and put the heating at 110 degrees, eat nothing but cold tinned food, have no internet except what is needed to play WOWS, and the icing on the cake - die a horrible slow death when sunk. That way the sub experience would be less exciting for noobs. (I say that 'cos it seems that about half of sub players aren't in clans whereas only 10% of surface ship player at T10 are clanless)

[@Ristogod]

I hate subs for the same reason I hate cvs. The inability to counter other than spend the whole match running or automatic mechanics (aa) is not fun.

[@coyote720]

At least with CVs there are ships I can play to counter them. In fact, when I'm in my Yubari or Pensacola, I'm disappointed when there is no CV. But I do understand your frustration in them.

[@JamesRicho]

Either the ping needs to be the same as a Kansas BB reload, or the homing torps have to go

[@anonymousc4tor0fgod59]

I am convinced WG is trying to cash out and run, especially with them leaving Russia. All they have to do now is to make the game unenjoyable, and players will leave.

[@pcsproshop8972]

wish I could argue. maybe we'll get used to it? maybe we'll loose our minds? maybe we'll all quit? nfi: that's the deal, we should be used to this by now though? as always, if you really like something in game, wait until the next patch. It will change... 😬

[@old_guard2431]

Easier to avoid than Sky Cancer. Would be even easier to avoid if surface ships got the unrealistic speed boosts. Maybe they will put that in: Can't wait for my 30-knot New Mexico. . .

[@GoodgameGG1.]

Overpowered

[@jasondiaz8431]

We need PT boats F lighters and E boats and night battles with Star shells.

[@xxx-tj6cj]

Take away the homing torps and submarines will be Ok, try the new Japanese sub, its really fun and more of a sport

[@Absts4ct]

they should add ability for surface ship to detect submarine under water like sonar or something and Battery should last 90% shorter. it so stupid how if a DD spot sub and he dive underwater the DD has to litterally sail on top of the sub to even deal damage to it.