I Proved Sans is Ness.

[@Malphasura]

Wow this video is very high quality and well put together! Probably one of your best! That Malphasura guy in the credits also seems very handsome and intelligent!

[@sarahshoemaker8811]

🤓

[@2099Sunglasses]

hm

[@jackkennedy7436]

Wonder who that guy is..

[@Cairo.-yy6ss]

To ruin the fun lol sans is NOT NESS u know bones are living tissues right? Yeah BONES CAN BLEED

[@Sonikku_Za_Hejjihoggu_1991]

Patrick is Sans, not Ness. >:(

[@shadokwastaken]

making a whole video playing devil's advocate for the lols is a powerful move

[@JumpingBoredom]

It may be for the lols, but it is truly the most groundbreaking discovery amongst several centuries.

[@Gameboy33134]

Ur vids are amazing

[@Jshssjsvausoxdb8226]

Bvgg

[@Nzargnalphabet]

That’s kind of my goal in all my arguments

[@Someguyonline24]

Hallo shadokwastaken

[@MarcusFigueras]

January 10th, 2024: Toby Fox posts an illustration of Sans wearing Ness's outfit to congratulate Matpat's retirement.

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

Wow that's nice of him.

[@Tuskact4userisGOD]

ALSO PAPYRUS

[@Gerthrude8]

Sans and papyrus are ness

[@somechupacabrawithinternet8866]

it is canon see chara defense retards/ know what "canon" and "fanon" is

[@Ttoillrigg]

But also papyrus

[@veebop9638]

One thing I’ve noticed that I haven’t seen anyone bring up is that sans’s completely unique karma mechanic when fighting him is similar to how damage and attacking works in earthbound, where your health depleting isn’t done immediately and is instead decreasing in real time as you interact in the menus and in the fight itself. This mechanic is one of the core elements of earthbound’s combat, and a core mechanic ONLY in the sans fight that feels weird compared to how undertale combat works normally. Matpats theory is very flawed but I think its overall important to bring attention and take note of these certain connections to earthbound. Even if the theory itself is wrong.

[@MonkeyNess]

Been discussing this with my co-writer. Considered including it but didn’t due to how late it came up. Really interesting point!

[@dylanzlol7293]

The thing is, if you try to let your karma hp go down to 0 you dont die like in earthbound, instead it stays on a (purple) 1 hp

[@veebop9638]

@@dylanzlol7293 yeah that’s why I said it was similar not exact

[@anomalocarislover7254]

Actually, the HP going down to 1 is also in Earthbound. the guts stat can sometimes let you survive a mortal blow at one HP.

[@MomazosDoritos]

​@@dylanzlol7293 Damm Frisk's got the guts 😂

[@icelingbolt]

One thing I love about this video is how much of the evidence you provide also being evidence of sans being from deltarune; MatPat, although being very wrong, did manage to get that sans isnt from the undertale universe

[@iinfernox]

i think its really interesting that no one had a clue what the "don't forget" photo meant until years after undertale came out, when deltarune was shadow-dropped. I remember one of the big theories was that it was a photo of Gaster, Papyrus, and Sans (pretty sure this was another of Matpat's Undertale theories.) But now that Deltarune is out, the photo links so strongly to it.

[@hybridvenom9]

Hear me out Sans is from delta rune i'm too lazy to make this theory but there are people that made the theory

[@Snt1_]

He was ahead of his time

[@capsey_]

I feel like Matt made a theory by finding interesting idea - Sans is from outside of Undertale - but when he realized there is not enough evidence for complete theory, since that was ongoing at the time, decided to turn that incomplete theory into absurd theory, like one where he said that Mario is psychopath, making it deliberately unbelievable

[@Malphasura]

we actually very intentionally chose not to consider Deltarune at all when writing this theory and tried to write it using evidence that would have been available at the same time as the original video, as the goal of this was partially to show that Matpat could have formed a much stronger argument that he had. But this is a good observation and I'm glad this video is making people think about this more deeply!

[@johnax4124]

I still want an explanation on how Ness went from a silent protagonist to some wise cracking pun telling guy

[@MonkeyNess]

Coping with the reality of never seeing his home again?

[@beywheelzhater8930]

Ness got himself confused with John Egbert from Homestuck and got a prankster’s gambit meter. We just can’t see it because Frisk never read Homestuck

[@MonkeyNess]

exactly

[@Baltuq]

@@MonkeyNess Other Characters like Chara or Snowdrake's Dad also copped through jokes or laughing. So yes this is the best conclusion.

[@donniewarren4681]

Mother 3 establishes that the protag characters are only silent When you take control of them (ex Duster doesnt talk when he's the lead in chapter 2 but he does talk in other chapters). my theory is he was Always like this and we just don't hear it in Earthbound because Mother series protagonists don't talk

[@atwistedb]

The sans is Ness deniers have finally been disproved... thank you MonkeyNess

[@somechupacabrawithinternet8866]

now of only we can tell these dumb "fnaf 2 is a prequel" and "chara is not evil and the player did it" morons that it is a fact that fnaf 2 is a sequel and chara is evil and have them

[@toad7369]

@@somechupacabrawithinternet8866 are you braindead or is this satire I genuienly cannot tell 😭

[@TheCow-j1l]

Sans is Ness deniers when Sansta shows his ID and it says Nessta 😂😂😂

[@tunatunafishie]

They haven’t been disproved, He just tried to repair the theory.

[@vancantorus]

Yeah

[@guyrocketram9698]

papyrus' beta sprite was actually much closer to the starman's pose but toby didn't like how symetrical it looked IIRC, you can find images of this in the undertake artbook. given as he has the starman's logo on him in the same spot too even in that old unused sprite it likely was an intentional reference so matpat's point about the starman pose being the same isn't ENTIRELY null, the poses being similar WAS an intentional reference and originally going to be more obvious.

[@MonkeyNess]

I'd consider it null, he's a skeleton, and unused content is just that, unused. Therefore, it's not canon, so he's incorrect even if he unintentionally saw elements of an earlier concept.

[@guyrocketram9698]

@@MonkeyNess yeah thats fair, i just meant that the whole pose being similar thing isn't completely without merit. i still think that part of the theory is pretty much entirely without merit & just makes little to no sense, & honestly after reading your response I don't even remember what point I was trying to make at this point, lol.

[@somethingforsenro]

@@MonkeyNess i think a comic dub said it best. "kid, i'm just a shitty earthbound fan." yes, it doesn't make sense to say that papyrus is literally a starman, but that doesn't mean the symbol itself wasn't a reference to earthbound. toby was impacted by earthbound in his childhood - although non-canon, the halloween hack provides a link in a meta sense, showing that toby has prior knowledge of the mother franchise and that it played a major role in his formative years as a game dev. even disregarding that, toby has said himself that games like earthbound were a big inspiration to his style. that doesn't mean that undertale is supposed to be an earthbound fangame - obviously not - but papyrus's insignia can still be toby making a meta-reference to the starmen in his design, even if the in-universe character of papyrus has no knowledge of starmen at all. that's one of the biggest pitfalls of the original theory, which i'm afraid you've also fallen into: failing to distinguish between details that have in-universe significance, and little references toby threw in as a sort of "wink wink, nudge nudge" that are just for fun rather than being truly relevant to the game itself. it's kinda like a113 in pixar movies.

[@MonkeyNess]

Regardless if they're easter eggs, they have ramifications to the lore of the game. A113 isn't a valid comparison, as even though it's a reference to the animation class they took in college, it's still a combonation of letters+numbers that can easily still exist on their own. All decisions made in art have meaning, regardless if they were intended or not.

[@Endborn]

The moment this video released, matpat knew, it was time. "I can finally retire in peace knowing, i was right."

[@rainbowmacaroon9189]

Never thought I'd see a Sans is Ness Theory redemption arc

[@maskofthedragon]

In Smash 64, whenever Ness is hit by an electrical attack he is revealed to have... A SKELETON!!!!!

[@MonkeyNess]

Sakurai was so ahead of his time

[@swampfire6600]

dear god

[@blueocten]

My immediate reaction was to point at the screen at 25:03. I then looked to my right and saw my Ness amiibo also pointing at me. So I have a Ness amiibo pointing at me pointing at a Ness amiibo pointing at Ness.

[@ThaneGaming]

22:51 - Sans/Ness fixating on Frisk and thinking that they may be this universe's Porky in the hypothetical scenario sort of reminds me of Porky's relationship to Lucas in MOTHER 3, which is an interesting parallel. Lucas is (in essence) that world's Ness, and so Porky singles him out as a new rival to toy with. He also likely feels a misguided, twisted attachment to Lucas because he sees his old friend in him (they are enemies of course, but Porky & Ness were heavily implied to have been companions in the past, and Porky is sentimental about their time together...the best piece of evidence being the Friend's Yo-Yo he keeps well guarded). Sans/Ness carefully observes Frisk/Porky and acts based on their choices in the Underground to keep them in check, just as Porky lords over Lucas throughout the game (though for different reasons, the latter mainly as a sick form of entertainment). Look at that, it's a silly point to make that shouldn't be taken seriously, but your video has got me thinking about my favorite games critically (just as MatPat would have wanted) 😅 excellent video, MonkeyNess!

[@Malphasura]

This is a fantastic point to make that we hadn't considered at all when creating this theory, but I really like where your head's at with this!

[@Camden_I_Think]

Many questions have been asked since the dawn of time. what's the meaning of life? what is love? is sans undertale ness earthbound? today, this question was truly solved by MonkeyNess

[@hugubugu9100]

baby don't hurt me

[@Spamton123]

@@hugubugu9100 don't hurt me, no more.

[@Reeeeeeeeee_eeeeee]

OH MY GOD ITS SPAMTON G SPAMTON FROM THE HIT GAME DELTARUNE

[@Neithan_Hirsch]

chipi chipi chapa chapa dubi dubi daba daba magicoyi dubi dubi boom boom boom boom

[@SergioFlores-xx4sm]

The idea of Ness becoming dangerously obsessed with tracking Porky through space and time, completely disregarding that this obsession is slowly aging him and destroying his view of the world becoming a nihilist, a far cry from the boy he once was….. actually has real potential to be a truly tragic story..

[@PoyoDesuka]

In retrospect, Sans may be Literally reading Frisk's mind when he says he's "reading your facial expression" and knows how many times you've died.

[@thefarlander2050]

Funny how this video was recommended to me after I watched a condensed version of the MatPat one. As a farfetched AU, Sans being Ness does sound pretty interesting. It could be cool for him to get the happy ending he wanted and go home to the Earthbound universe. Thanks for fixing up the original theory. You fixed most of the problems with the original and I like the new content you brought up. Keep up the great work!

[@MonkeyNess]

Thank you so much, and I hope you'll stick around! :)

[@Blaineworld]

i thought you were going to suggest that sans turned into dust because his body was barely holding together due to the hyper-aging you could actually say maybe that’s why he’s so “lazy”

[@MonkeyNess]

Interesting angle.

[@saratoga6663]

I always thought his laziness was attributed to his understanding of the world, if things can just be reset why bother, just crack dumb jokes over and over again as they will always be as bad the 50th time as the first. (although there is no proof he knows when these resets happen. It is heavily implied that he knows they can, alongside the various insights into how you've fought him 3 times judging by your facial expression)

[@winterswhite]

You absolute madmonkey. You really did something I cannot even fathom. Very thought-provoking, and heartwarming. Nothing can come close, not even Squidward's house!

[@FriskDrinksBrisk]

What about Squidwards house?

[@winterswhite]

@@FriskDrinksBrisk *cut to Squidward's house peeking over, then looking away like nothing happened*

[@cryptidmartyr4588]

since i watched the infamous video i believed it because i was a gullible child who did'nt have a developed brain yet, but part of me still roots for that kid who saw all those loose connections and watched in awe. I tried to rationalize the theory to my very best ability because of this, and im very happy to see a video like this out there.

[@zSphericle]

matpat watched this and decided it was about time he stopped

[@foursidekm]

tbh I never saw the starmen as machines. I've always seen them as aliens who just so happen to have a metallic texture to them. Makes them cooler I think

[@MonkeyNess]

They have quirks in their dialogue like "whir" and the such, and in the original Mother 2, they're written in a style that suggest they are robots. However, they can very much be both!

[@steel7399]

Them being biological would explain them having ghosts (or "ancestors" in the JP version)

[@foursidekm]

@@steel7399 plus the rust promoter doesn't work on them

[@thethree13o]

I'd say that the robot thing is an exterior and the aliens are inside the robot

[@noti7510]

on the legends of localisations website, written by the one and only tomato, he says that in the japanese text, ". . . all the Starman characters who talk use only katakana in their speech. This is a common way to denote robotic-style voices." and also says that the whirrr and click onomatopoeia was added in localisation and that " . . . this gives the possibly false impression that the Starmen are mechanical in nature." The implication, though I can't remember who or what exactly planted this in my head, is that starmen are aliens using translation devices which make their speech sound robotic. legends of localisation is a great website, if you wanna read a really long comparison and commentary of all of the text (and also image things like 'bar' being changed to 'cafe' at jackies cafe) that is notably different between versions, check it out! there are also a few other comparisons for games, like mother 3, and a few final fantasy and megaman ones. though the mother 3 one is quite short, as there was less speculation and 'what were they thinking!', since he was the one who did the translation for mother 3.

[@Pepenic]

Toby obviously planned for Sans and Ness to have similarities, and sprinkled a few details that MatPat caught on and made a video about. Also, Sans and Gaster have more of a connection considering the Gaster Blasters used in the fight. Great video!

[@MegadriveMaster.]

Now this might not matter to anyone but the whole part about Papyrus’s Starman outfit really caught my attention on where Sans says “WE made that costume for a party”.. Ness must of thought about home and his past journeys in his universe and added the Starman logo in reference to the iconic enemy from his game. Sorry if this theory seems unreasonable but it caught my attention and I haven’t really heard anyone say anything about it.

[@Dimumouto]

Now here's hoping he watches this video on his livestream! He even cracks jokes at himself at how outlandish that theory was. But you wanna know what it did? Exactly what he said in that clip you used. You made this video. You thought about it with a different angle, a different train of thought. And I bet MatPat would be extremely proud someone was inspired by his own crackpot theory and make one of their own.

[@Helm-0]

Gah dang, i remember when the og theory came out, i was OBSESSED with it, even though it was blatantly wrong, i just loved the premise so much that i just latched onto it. And now, years later, i feel this obssession coming back once more. Amazing video, but also how dare you.

[@theonlystarman]

He has no idea what he's talking about, I'm absolutely Papyrus Undertale. There's so much evidence!

[@legalza0843]

I like matpats proposal that sans is ness from an alternate timeline where he didn’t make it back rather then ness deciding to just throw his life away to look for a needle in a haystack using the dangerous machine he knows is dangerous.

[@volbia12]

Makes me sad that Toby wants us to forget about his Halloween Hack, yeah its edgy and full of swears but it also does a damn good job of setting an eerie tone, and raises several great moral quandries. It was legitimately one of my favorite EB romhacks

[@peenywallie]

Sans is actually "Steven After Not Surviving"

[@sharkylady]

Awesome video man, thanks for playing the devils advocate. Honestly, about the original video- is it a little insane? Sure it is! But I definitely don't think it's as big of a deal as the internet made it out to be. As Matpat says, the theories aren't meant to be presented as genuine facts, but they are simply meant to get us thinking outside the box. (Which, by the way, you are doing exactly that. You don't believe the theory, but you're following the line of logic for the fun of it!). Sure, maybe the theory was a little too out of the box for a lot of people- But when the theory came out, I was an insane Undertale fan. I was pretty similar to what people would even call the "cringe" part of the fandom. If anyone should have dunked on that theory, to compare sans to a character I have no relationship with, it should have been me. But I knew Matpat's intent, and I knew it was all in silly fun, and I could move on if I didn't like it. It's wild to me how 15 year old me could realize this, yet the majority of the internet could not regardless of age. The memes that have come out of it are funny, and I'm glad Matpat has moved on and carries it lightheartedly. But that should not have been born from a place of malice as it was Just to make it clear, I don't believe the theory at all, but that's not the point. That was never the point of it and I'm sad so many people missed that.

[@MonkeyNess]

Thank you so much for the kind comment and watching!

[@gamercentral2417]

This theory is really good. But I do want to point out you forgot about the neutral routes at 23:20, which I’m also kinda disappointed that a lot of the community thinks undertale is just black and white, genocide or pacifist. Also I believe that sans wouldn’t have killed frisk. And was scaring them into trying to not kill

[@fraquero3192]

human... i dont remember your neutrals :(

[@Malphasura]

We chose not to analyze the neutral route as it doesn't add much over True Pacifist story-wise, however I will give that because Sans won't fight you if you spared even a single monster the Neutral route undermines our Genocide interpretation slightly. This is a great point and I'm glad this video is encouraging people to ask questions :)

[@lilacpenguin5329]

I agree with you OP, the nuance of the game is lost when we ignore the neutral routes, especially since there were so many.

[@josephb.4640]

I honestly do think that Sans would've killed Frisk. It makes his character a bit more ambiguous and lends itself to the fact that Sans has all the reason in the world to kill Frisk in order to be free from the Underground (or for unstated reasons)...

[@somethingforsenro]

i think the reason why sness doesnt fight frisk unless they kill absolutely everyone could be bc ness is ultimately a good kid. he's spent a long time in this world, and adapted to its ways - he probably doesnt believe in fighting so much anymore. besides, the stuff about tainted souls and murder is probably the least important part of the theory anyway. thats still covered by the loss of determination thing (he did, after all, give up trying to go back a long time ago)

[@BlueToadFan]

I did not expect this video and ESPECIALLY THE CONCLUSION to suddenly be as relevant as it is. Thank you MatPat

[@epicness877]

Ive refused to watch the original for all these years, but I can respect this

[@KiiBon]

You can only delay the inevitable so much. You know what to do.

[@hybridvenom9]

Remember when Sans is Ness came out and literally I know nothing about undertale and now that i know about a lot about the game i don't really care it is just a theory

[@unbearablysmug2437]

HOLY SHIT dude! That is another level of petty lol

[@themilkcream5742]

Why lol, its not like he mentioned anything too terrible unlike other things at the time

[@darknessreborn2608]

​@@unbearablysmug2437 fr fr

[@odirceR]

1:57 i've read that as "terrorists explaining why sans is ness"

[@lancetheking7524]

Well that's just a theory, a ga- *a hose of water comes out of my eyes*

[@amazingapple6964]

With respect to 11:53 apart from toriel and asgore other monsters are also aware of the sun. For example, mettaton's dialogue in the king mettaton neutral ending says something like "Who needs the sun when you have stagelights". Just thought to point that out

[@KlausiboyZ]

Mettaton was originally a ghost like Napstablook, and Alphys build a robot body for him (At least I'm 90% confident that was a thing). I don't think it's explicitly called out that ghost and/or skeleton type monsters (traditional undead monsters) used to be human, but I'd like to think so, which would explain why a ghost like Mettaton knows about the sun. Of course, that hinges on undead monsters being originally humans, which is admittedly pure speculation.

[@SatoXian]

This video hits different. First time watching this due to MatPat breaking the KZbin Algorithm in one day. Now anything "theory related" will pop up in my feed. Thank you for making the effort to make this video.

[@MonkeyNess]

Appreciate the comment, thank you so much.

[@gabbyhaynes5394]

Bro Dropped this and then 4 days later MatPat announces his retirement

[@Josedot366]

After the theory "confirmation" by this guy he can finally rest in peace

[@wahwah12wahwah12]

okay, but hear me out, what if, sans from super smash bros is ness from super smash bros?

[@TheRealSuperKirby]

He's just a dude in a costume so it's entirely possible

[@GarageCarport]

very true

[@dacedave4161]

Hear me out. What if Alphys created Freddy Fazbear-

[@FlareBlitzBanana]

It's a bit unrelated but MatPat has been a Mother fan since long before he started his channel. His older videos on the game are what got me to give it a try in the first place, months before Undertale came out. I think his and Ronnie's Earthbound videos on the channel from before the Sans is Ness theory deserve some credit.

[@plague4661]

This is a real "IF I did it" moment for sans is ness.

[@kyaban5192]

Goddamn I really respect this.

[@Eli_Pikaneon]

This is the video that started me getting into earthbound

[@MonkeyNess]

hope you've enjoyed EarthBound since!

[@scelebob4329]

i refuse to watch this video because i refuse to even have the possibility of believing this in the slightest

[@MonkeyNess]

Thanks for commenting!

[@scelebob4329]

@@MonkeyNess thanks for

[@MonkeyNess]

@@scelebob4329 real

[@pookapeeka]

R.I.P MatPat now MonkeyNess is the new Game Theorist

[@KlausiboyZ]

I like the clip from MatPat's on-the-couch video you included at the end. Because that specific clip sums up what I always thought would be common sense. Any of the theorist videos that end up being a stretch shouldn't be taken any more seriously than "Huh, fun train of thought. Probably isn't true or canon, but still." The theory videos are just explorations of the topics. People are free to agree or disagree as much as they want, especially in cases where any of the "evidence" is just speculation. But be civil about it when you disagree. Don't go on a witch hunt over a silly thought experiment. Yes, the machine and stuff are most likely related to Gaster and is obviously not *officially* an Earthbound thing. But it's just fun to think "what if"

[@taigafrost4936]

I wanna see Toby confirm this just for shits and giggles

[@nepsterboop]

dam you made him retire with this video clearly his work here is done after this video you put his soul to rest

[@theatricsunflowerxxx2726]

This is the video that made MatPat quit

[@louisluisss]

I replayed undertale. This year. And man. i forgot sans is ness.

[@strwberry_mist]

maybe the real ness was the sans we made along the way

[@MapleMoriko]

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE! IT NEVER ENDS...NOOOO! D: But great video c:

[@4Bakers]

I think my biggest issue with the Sans is Ness theory is more on a metanarrative level. I believe crutching on EarthBound to write the lore would make UNDERTALE feel hollow and less compelling than if Toby's worldbuilding could stand on its own, which I believe he takes a lot of pride in. For example, many UNDERTALE fangames are "it's UNDERTALE but _____", but Toby creates another story in that universe and it's primarily completely original characters. UNDERTALE canonically takes place in a parallel timeline to DELTARUNE, and they share the same or similar rules and concepts, but they don't really rely on anything made by other people to exist. also, given that Toby originally thought of making DELTARUNE first, I consider the central storyline to be DELTARUNE, with UNDERTALE being an AU / alternate timeline. they are related, but Toby has officially stated that (paraphrased) "Playing DELTARUNE does not canonically affect the state you left UNDERTALE in" (ie: doing weird route in DELTARUNE does not ruin your True Pacifist ending, those aren't related to each other like that) I believe the machine in sans's basement (that room is called sansbasement in the files) is the machine he uses to get the information he'd need to say half the stuff he did in his boss fight, like proving the player character is responsible for a major disruption in the timeline. sans canonically cannot "see" what you did prior to resets, he leverages our memories of it to cold read us to obtain that information, and _we_ don't know the state of the timeline, so he must have a dedicated source of information for that. I believe some of the small elements, like Papyrus's costume, are Toby adding things because it's funny. I believe it IS the Starman emblem, but I doubt that would be acknowledged ingame or as a part of the lore, not just because it twists the vibe the game is going for but also for copyright reasons. I also believe that the picture is a reference to DELTARUNE. "Don't Forget" is a DELTARUNE motif, and Toby isn't above teasing his second game in UNDERTALE, as evidenced by Goner Clam in the Nintendo Switch release. Papyrus does not move in his battle. at all. Sans does. This is great theory material. A semi-recent UNDERTALE newsletter dropped a bombshell, where (from memory) Papyrus talks about living near green grass at some point, and Sans immediately changes the subject/ends the interview or something (I forgot specifics), which people interpret as Sans AND Papyrus having lived somewhere other than the Underground in the past, before randomly showing up in Snowdin Town. Sans was not in the True Lab. if you put all of the lab entries in chronological order, they all go lowercase and informal after Alphys starts going for extended periods of time without sleep. They are not written in comic sans, either.

[@2dflash]

perfect timing, I needed a video for my food :)

[@subway_koopa]

Cant wait for Matpat to react to this one

[@BeyondTrash-xe1vs]

I hope he does, I know he'd really enjoy watching it!

[@fruitloops2058]

This would actually be a banger "crack taken seriously" fanfic

[@A_Veget4ble]

Matpat can now retire in peace

[@fallenorrisen120]

You and Thane Gaming are keeping the Mother series alive and kicking on KZbin!

[@callyral]

"How could Frisk know these two are the same person?" That's just it. Frisk does know. That's because Frisk is MatPat from Game Theory.

[@yumyumcookies4556]

Matpats video has become so engraved in my memory that every time I enter sans’ lab I’m like “oh right the earthbound stuff”

[@undertalefan_4life420]

This is just sad how Mat is leaving KZbin now 😢

[@ItsMadLadSir]

Literally introduced me to Earthbound AND Game Theory. That video was legendary even if it was random.

[@1.21jiggawatts2]

I have an idea on how to explain Sans’ low stats and his “monster” death. In the True Lab, we find the Determination Extractor and discover Alphys had been experimenting with injecting pure Determination into monsters and objects. Despite this being a big part of the story, we never find out how Alphys got Determination and who the Determination Extractor was used on. What if Ness was the source of determination? After countless resets and realizing there was no possibility of returning home while trapped in the Underground, he offers up his own determination to be experimented on in hopes that the research can be used to break the barrier. The process drains his soul of almost all of its strength and leaves Ness with only 1 Attack and 1 Defense. Despite his sacrifice, the experiments bare no fruit and Ness gave up his life force for nothing. Now without any determination to continue, he quits his research with Alphys and just hangs out at Snowdin, doing nothing all day because he sees no point in life and that it’s pointless to try and get home.

[@Malphasura]

We never even considered this, but it could be good evidence! I think it's always assumed that the the determination was sourced from other monsters, as while they don't have much they would have some, but it could be a better angle than Ness simply losing hope and thus determination, or it could at least be complementary to the theory we already presented, nice catch!

[@aidenmcknight2884]

True Lab Entry 5: I've done it. Using the blueprints, I've extracted it from the human SOULs. I believe this is what gives their SOULs the strength to persist after death. The will to keep living... The resolve to change fate. Let's call this power... "Determination."

[@Malphasura]

@@aidenmcknight2884 Haha nice catch, neither of us had actually gone all the way through True Lab in the research of this video but thankfully I don't think it hurts or helps our theory too much. Thanks for mentioning this though, with all the text across both games we were unfortunately always going to miss something though and it's nice that others can catch it and mention it :)

[@aidenmcknight2884]

@@Malphasura np :)

[@Prince_Echo]

problem with sans having zero relation to gaster is the gaster blasters he uses having well... gasters name. he'd have to have either relations to gaster or someone else who does like maybe papyrus. we did never get to see papyrus's special move... and we dont know when sans and pap showed up compared to gaster's dissapearance and gaster playing with space and time could have met him due to seeing disturbances on his machines or whatever, maybe even the failed machine gaster was using failed because sans teleported there while it was being tested. i dont believe it but its a thought.

[@c.dl.4274]

8:24 I understand debunking but this is just openly denial. Like clearly they're the same pattern, obviously Toby at least made a nod to the other design

[@MonkeyNess]

Never said they aren’t. Was saying their stances were nothing alike. The symbol is very clearly a nod to EarthBound, but in-universe that just doesn’t make sense, so in the context of Undertale’s story it’s just mock military insignia.

[@Buggyfryl0]

I've always loved this theory

[@simonrobson6353]

When I was watching this video, I thought of a silly somewhat possible reason why Ness is a “skeleton”, besides him using the Phase Distorter. Maybe the reason he “showed up one day and asserted himself” is because he was trying to blend in. The monsters in the underground are hostile towards humans, so Ness would take on the guise of a monster himself. This could explain why he bleeds when he’s defeated, because he’s still a human. That being said, there are a couple of things that disprove this, such as Sans being unable to LOAD and RESET unlike other humans, as well as him dusting like a monster (although you did make a good argument explaining how that’s possible). That being said Sans being a costume worn by Ness is my official head canon because there’s no other reason to be wearing winter clothes when he *doesn’t have any skin* unless he’s trying to cover up his human arms. Feel free to rip my comment to shreds in the replies lol.

[@trishad3192]

though only frisk and flowey are stated to be able to save and reset, we dont know if chara has able to do it prior to the genocide route, but not all humans can reset and save only those with high determination, so if sans is ness he could very well just lose that determination after the years or it just hasnt enough cause his friends werent there to support him

[@anevilghost670]

Flowey's Genocide monologue he confirms that whoever has the most determination are the only one that can Save, Load and Reset. Frisk showing up as the new being with the most determination took away his ability to do that and transferred it to Frisk. Sans being a very unmotivated and lazy individual and Flowey, a normally non-sentient being, injected with loads of Determination probably meant that even with Sans possibly being a disguised human, Flowey just had more of it.

[@trishad3192]

@@anevilghost670 .. or he is depress and hopeless and that why his stats are so low too, hp means hope so if you lose hope you lose hp, having no hope could mean also having no determination for a human like you just give up since you need determination to do things

[@JezElectroAlt]

Can't think of way to word my comment properly so will just say "Great video" 2 minutes in being fully sure it will be.

[@niblet8308]

You just ratioed matpat so hard he decided to retire

[@cupcakecowboy0]

i never got why people hated this theory. maybe because it came from game theory who usually provides solid proof for his theories. But I have seen theories with much worse/goofy evidence that were fun to talk about. EX Crocodile being Luffy's mom. I also didnt get why people are mad that he talked about the Halloween hack. They were made by the same person so I thought that even tho its not a nail in a coffin, it was still fine to talk about

[@Mr.Doggo83]

Matpat would be proud of you.

[@Brackets_Guy]

[@UltravioletNomad]

The biggest real indictment of Matpat that Sans is Ness exhibited is that sometimes, his theories just don't have a hook and in that respect they AREN'T good examples or real critical thinking. I can accept that no Mario theory he has ever done has any consistent facts or narratives between each other because they're an excuse to psychoanalyze a cartoon character or count the real value of a fake mansion, but Sans is Ness is a theory that frankly only exist FOR that title. Its, 'this thing is popular and we need a video on it this week'. The theory avoids even mentioning Gaster because at the time EVERYONE was talking about Gaster and the material was a LOT to chew through despite all of it being speculation from the weirdest, most obscure breadcrumbs. Regardless of how well you think he does it, Matpat is only really a serious canon/lore theorist with FNAF, and realistically, despite everyone yelling and clowning on him for his one off thought experiment theories, I think what they're really mad about is that he ISN'T giving their favorite series a real deep dive, they WANT him to get serious about Undertale or Zelda. Though looking at just about every Marvel and Star Wars theory hes made... we that's not fair, you can't fault a guy for making a wrong pulls when the writers are intentionally pulling from left field for the sake of it.

[@Snt1_]

There are 2 types of GT fans. The LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRE enthusiasts and the science guys. GT was created as a channel that used science to analyse video games and make weird but fun theories. But GT moved onto lore later on. Now fans are divided, a bunch love the fnaf and horror game, arg and lore theories, and some others want to have the science stuff, math and stupid theories back, like for the slenderman vid

[@linhero797]

The issue is that Matthew also just lies and misrepresents series and their lore for the sake of a good story. Of which he does so on purpose. We have proof of him admitting to doing so and encouraging his writers to do the exact same thing.

[@star-isnt-funny]

i agree with almost everything you layed out here besides the dismissal of the blueprint text being saturnian, writing it off as "if it was english, frisk would understand it" doesn't work when the dialogue in the game states maybe its just the handwriting you cant understand, still written in english

[@jasonfakename4851]

Holy shit Lucas is Papyrus

[@Malphasura]

The real answer, it went right under our noses!

[@lilacpenguin5329]

Im dyin lmao

[@PasswordMike]

No one also talks about these things but when papyrus fails to kill you at 1 hp it could be referencing the guts mechanic where you survive on one hp and another thing i noticed is that someone in twoston says blue looking npc's are blue and porky is blue in the final battle

[@rbarua3368]

MatPat could retire in peace after seeing this video.

[@ellanimation816]

This aged sooooo poorly

[@alexanderthegreat-mx5zu]

​@@ellanimation816He "predicted" it so it aged well you fcki-

[@Saiinomic]

I cant believe this theory actually returned. This truly is amazing.

[@e34YT]

One more thing, not sure if its been said but by the time you enter the room behind the house you already met Papyrus. The photo album says you see Sans and people you don't recognize, meaning no Papyrus. Probably nothing, but oh well.

[@Malphasura]

I had considered this when we were discussing this element of the theory but decided that a lack of Papyrus proves nothing either way, as he clearly isn't from the Earthbound cast. The photo album being in a secret room that Sans doesn't let his brother know exists implies that it has significance to the other items in that room, and given the strength of the Gaster angle on what this all means it's reasonable to assume that the photo is of Sans, Gaster, and other lab associates or the test subjects who were made into the amalgamations. We chose to follow that thread as it gave us good foundation to support our multiverse traveller position on Ness being Sans.

[@Bengt2509]

then it might be gaster and alphys or something

[@Malphasura]

@@Bengt2509 it's explicitly stated that it's people you don't recognize, which is the reason it stands out so much, because it HAS to be characters that you can NEVER meet during a playthrough of the game, including the Fun 66 event where you meet Gaster

[@GrapplingIgnorance]

Video Idea/Request: With Nintendo remaking Super Mario RPG, and announcing a 1000-Year Door remake, I can't help but feel a glimmer of hope for an Earthbound remake/remaster on the Switch. I'd love to see your wish list or various suggestions for how they could remake the game today.

[@emidemi7211]

I appreciate both that you DID actually provide some arguable evidence, and that you choose not to shit on MatPat but to treat him as a fellow intelligent theorist (which a lot of people don't do anymore. Very rude imo.)

[@Malphasura]

we tried over several drafts to refine this theory into something with good foundation and strong, arguable points that stand on existing canon, so it's great to see that effort is appreciated, thanks for watching :)

[@lilacpenguin5329]

I agree a lot

[@linhero797]

Matthew would earn more respect if he didn't admit he literally lies and twists facts, and encourages his writers to do so as well, to make his theories.

[@KumatorasLittleCutie-Pie]

Want to add my thoughts: 1. Sans probably drawed his present form on top of his human slef in the picture with his friends. And thats how Frisk recognized Sans. Y'Know cause he was sad. 2. I bet he made a new "Brother" cause he misses his real Sister. 3. The teleporting thing should work, As Ness just moves quick and makes a portal before coming in contact with a wall, I still think the Teleporting thing for Sans is the same as Ness. 4. I bet Sans took Frisk out on a date because he never got to take Paula out. (Wow, that hurts! 💔) 5. Bone Attacks? I guess a new thing: PSI Bone! Think about it, Lucas gets in a dangerous drowning situation and gets PSI, Ness almost dies in Phase Distorter and awakens a new move. Gaster Blasters are PSI Flash or Rockin', just disoriented. 6. One thing no one talks about is after beating the Drakness in Magicant, the Truth of the Universe tells Ness to remember his sense of humor. (Who do we know keeps joking despite depression?) 7. I think Ness sensed Giygas inside Chara and thats why he wanted to kill her. Also the Barrier thing works too. 8. Just cause Saturn's talk in English, doesn't mean they write in it. Plus they helped Andonuts build the Phase Distorter, so its likey the blue prints are from them. 9. Sans is a hot dog guy. Thats one of the most popular Theories for Ness in Mother 3. 10. Porky being stuck in a alternative timeline and Ness having the same situation is just so heart breaking.

[@lavender317]

I'm definitely not a matpat fan, but one thing I can respect him for is that he's always been able to take criticism well and make fun of himself. I don't think he deserves ALL the hate he gets (just some of it) but he never gets bothered by it which I think is admirable

[@dumblegoguy3196]

“It’s just a theory, a game theory”

[@SearchableUsername]

finally someone had the balls to do it

[@Hello-pv1xw]

Always thought the blood on sans was just ketchup. One last prank to mess with theorists to make them think he’s human or lived after geno.

[@MonkeyNess]

Can’t be since it comes out of his mouth too, and an NPC at Grillby’s says food turns into energy instantly upon entering a monster’s mouth.

[@Hello-pv1xw]

@@MonkeyNess I feel like that’s a joke too but idk

[@MonkeyNess]

@@Hello-pv1xwThere’s nothing to suggest it’s a joke, as it’s not said with any sort of snarky or sarcastic tone.

[@MrBreadTheory]

I believe he was right

[@MonkeyNess]

Thank you Bread Theory

[@MrBreadTheory]

@@MonkeyNess holy shit you responded

[@captainapac]

This is actually such an insanely good video, you should really be happy with it. Maybe someday when Deltarune is done you can come back to this (provided there’s some additional details or something) lol

[@MonkeyNess]

Thanks so much :) and maybe I will!

[@traces-without-is-dead-lol]

I thought this was an April fools joke for a second ☠️

[@LonelyCreap]

Haven't watch the video yet, but I can tell someone is trying to make MatPat proud

[@LonelyCreap]

Just finished watching the video. It was put together nicely!

[@SnoFitzroy]

"Sans is Ness" and "I gave the Pope a copy of Undertale" are the only two good things MatPat has ever done with KZbin. The rest of his stuff is batshit clinically insane but THOSE two things make perfect sense.

[@lilacpenguin5329]

I feel like he made a nice summary of My Friendly Neighborhood. I feel like that's an overly uncharitable assessment of just some guy.

[@technicallygood4620]

This theory is so stupid, it's clear that Sans is the corpse of an alternate version of John Egbert, namely the one born in beloved rock opera, notable Homestuck fanfiction, and Toby Fox's magnum opus, The Baby Is You. This explains why Sans bleeds, of course. John Egbert has multiple forms of teleportation, including one that allows him to escape the bound of a universe. In fact, the main ability of this form of teleportation (lovingly referred to as the zappy thing) is the ability to break the established rules of reality, similar to how Sans can break the rules of the game. In fact, if he could invisibly manipulate wind, that would explain the psychokinesis too, he's just moving it using wind. If you want to be silly, you could even argue that Sans's jacket is a modified version of John's god tier hoodie. In addition, you could also argue that the zappy thing links John to Gaster, he's very much separated from reality. Maybe Gaster was trying to find a way to complete this separation from canon, and in the end... he succeeded. That would explain why only Sans seems to remember. On top of that, John's God Tier abilities make him conditionally immortal. That would explain how he could survive as a skeleton, as well as his reluctance to get involved. If he were to get too involved, he would be considered Heroic or Just, the conditions that allow his death to be permanent. When he creeps off screen, that's so on the off-chance his little stunt at the end of the genocide run doesn't qualify as heroic, we wouldn't see him come back to life. Another bit of evidence is their shared love of jokes, japes, and pranks. For the garage secrets, the're all related to Gaster, his machine, his clearance badge, all that. Finally, why did he give up on going back a long time ago? Because The Baby Is You isn't canon. It differs too much from the alpha timeline, and thus is doomed to not exist. John may escape using the zappy thing, but his home... well, it doesn't exist anymore. You might even argue that Sans seemingly romantically pursuing Toriel links back to John. Him and Roxy seemed to have a thing for each other, which is weird since she's an alternate version of Rose's (his friend) Mom. He's already a certified MILF hunter. In short, John saw his world was dying and couldn't be saved, so he zapped away, out of Homestuck's canon as a whole, and into the underground, where he was damaged in hotland, turned into a living skeleton, and met Papyrus. Despite trying to use Gaster's expertise to find a way to somewhere like his home (I.E, the alpha timeline) he failed, Gaster died during these experiments, and he sort of just settled down.

[@remiphyr]

yes it is important to note that the substance sans bleeds out is DETERMINATION (if people say otherwise i'd say SOUL magic). as he survives right after death, he is two of the only people that can keep themselves together for a while after death. a lot of people first assume its ketchup or blood when they delve into the genocide route.

[@MonkeyNess]

I don't think "Determination" is a literal substance, but a power inside people that's channeled through their actions and outlook, as there's nothing ever suggested in the game that it is physical.

[@Pyr0Ben]

@@MonkeyNessWhat you're describing is true determination, which is what Frisk's soul inherently possesses, but the plaques in the True Lab mention that Alphys was able to extract a physical, synthetic form of determination from the human souls. This is what she used to accidentally create flowey, and it's implied that Undyne took a shot of the synthetic determination in order to take you on in the Genocide route.

[@KasecTheTraveler]

Womp womp determination isn't related to red in anyway. Nowhere in the game, not even in the genocide run, determination is NEVER spelled with red text. In dact, I believe Alphys' used the color YELLOW in the TRUE LAB. Other humans were ALSO able to save and load. Toriel and Asgore proves this. Especially Asgore with the dialogue where he shakes his head. "You told Asgore that he killed you... He sadly shakes his head." He is well aware of this concept. So is Toriel with her telling us in the phone call something along the lines of "It's like whenever I meet a human, I meet an old friend." right after guessing what you wanted right. We don't know about Sans' past. But he isn't human. One thing the video gets wrong is the statement "A monster can briefly match a humans determination." No. If Undyne WAS able to match us, we wouldn't be able to reset. I'd say it's even lower than Flowey's as he was DIRECTLY injected determination. Oh yeah, remember, INJECTED determination that came from the SOULs of the previous fallen. Which means they DID have determination. Flowey wasn't around back then, since both his and Asriel's dialogue don't mention anything about meeting other humans. But even IF he did, he would've easily gotten the souls since the others wouldn't be able to save IF THE OTHER SOULS couldn't reset save or load. But they could. So Flowey couldn't do crap. Determination is not red. "You are filled with determination." because you naturally are human. It's not related to your soul color.

[@KasecTheTraveler]

​@@Pyr0BenNuh uh

[@lilacpenguin5329]

@@Pyr0Ben Everything else you've said makes sense because that's what i heard other undertale fans say, but i never heard that Undyne "took a shot of determination" before.

[@SquidellaButCool]

I love how this video actually goes about presenting the theory in an actually realistic way in both game’s lore. I still don’t believe Sans is Ness, but that thought will forever just be in the back of my head.

[@unodos2647]

if sans is ness, why didnt he spam PK Flash until Frisk died? is he stupid?

[@MonkeyNess]

he forgot

[@TCBlueFire]

even though this theory this has a lot of holes in it (granted not as much as matpat) like sans and papyrus not being related, we would also need to mention ness sister which was never mentioned at all, sans relationship towards toirel, the dynamic is too different from ness's personality. last thing i would like to mention is san gimmick is vastly different from ness, san's relies on karma to defeat his foe while he does have physic abilities thats kinda it. but i will say sans being from earthbound is a really interesting theory him being ness just doesnt make sense for how different they are

[@Super_ATI]

I think that the starman logo is just a referance, its just tobys love for earthbound

[@MonkeyNess]

100%, but the fact that it's in the game's universe has ramifications to its lore and canon.

[@lilacpenguin5329]

It could be Starman merch that he found at the dump around waterfall, or Starmen visited the surface.

[@pkdotts]

great video, i am thoroughly convinced sans is ness now

[@MonkeyNess]

Thanks so much for commenting!