I SOLD OUT! 🤑 My Expensive Regret...

[@artisanelectrics]

View the proposed changes to the MCS scheme here 👉: mcscertified.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Scheme-Consultation_-Proposed-changes-to-MCS.pdf

[@AntonyoKnight]

It's just too much to consume 😕 Where is the proposal?

[@MagicianMan]

I watched your latest video with a great deal of interest. Our installer First4Solar recently went into administration owing approx 500-1000 people an average deposit of £2500. We were one of the lucky ones that had our installation completed and registered with MCS and HIES. Turns out that they have not registered most of those people with HIES for deposit protection, and even when they did they delayed the installation past the 120 day protection. We have people with no installations, part installations and complete installations. They have not been issued EIC/Part P Certificates, have not been registered with MCS. NAPIT have been a fucking useless trade body and have point blank refused to help anyone. MCS only advice has been "find an installer to adopt the system". Good luck with that, we contacted 15 different installers, most ignored me completely, some declined, 2 responded and 1 quoted to adopt the system and carry out remedial electrical work @ £3200 (out install was £9k). We also found out that our mounting rails and PV panels installed were different to those quoted for and listed on the MCS Certificate. MCS require us to find another MCS certified installer to write to them and confirm this is correct. However as I am led to believe Installers WON'T do this as apparently they then become responsible for the changes. And to add insult to injury MCS wanted to charge a £36 admin fee! For 99% of those other people HIES have been about as much use as a chocolate toothbrush and are "not fit for purpose". They have wriggled out of any responsibility wherever possible, their insurance backed guarantee ONLY covers "Faulty Workmanship" and even in those 1% of cases where the deposit insurance has worked there have been some particularly dodgy/criminal instances of them getting involved to arrange for alternate installations (at this point HIES should be done and all communication should be with the insurance company). One example: an alternate installer, who started operating in April 23, based in Glasgow, was proposed to install at a customers in Essex!! HIES tried to arrange this, NOT the insurance company. Turns out that this company, Jarion Ltd (10493796), also own part of HIES and 80% of this new installation company. Jarion Ltd are an "investment company" that also part own HIES, HICS, EPVS, QASSS, DGCOS, Qualitymark Protection. In addition to this Jarion Ltd have a director John Richard CHRISTIE who was also a director of HIES until December 2020. Also QA SCHEME SUPPORT SERVICES LTD (05836324) have the same Directors as HIES, aka THE INTEGRITY FOUNDATION (07972075), Faisal HUSSAIN and John Richard CHRISTIE

[@sang3Eta]

Octopus Energy no longer requires a MCS certificate.

[@craiglowe44]

Another example of how the British government approach policy, farm it out to external companies who couldn't care less other than their fees. Time and time again we see this leading to poor quality work, confusion and ultimately everything gets folded up and everyone has to start over again. I wonder how long till we hear about some politicians partners grandma owning MSC, followed by a weak meaningless apology that they had no idea.

[@nickcollins7568]

MCS sounds like a company whose main business is to rake in Fees from installers and customers

[@artisanelectrics]

Pretty much how it is now tbh, we just realised a little too late

[@willmitchell255]

Just like The IET Wiring Regulations

[@mikebarry229]

Ironic that Octopus no longer require the installer/installation to be MCS registered to pay export

[@iknowcraig]

@@mikebarry229they don’t? Got any links to info or anything? I’d like to do an DIY install so this is very interesting!!

[@arcadia1701e]

Bit like the NICEIC and NAPIT then..

[@TheXsheeple]

It's all about the large companies dominating the market, the little guy just doesn't have the hours available for all the paperwork involved.

[@MacCaughey]

This reminds me sooo much of the process that I went through in Ireland when I became an approved installer for solar thermal systems. We had hoped that setting up a system to create our paperwork and help the customer complete the grant paperwork would work smoothly and become almost automatic, and it did - for a while. Then they changed the requirements and made it much more onerous to meet the specifications. Panel area and hot water storage had to be matched to floor area; before and after Building Energy Assessments needed, etc. Even though I was a qualified Assessor, it was easier to follow the cowboys and offer the customer a cheaper system to save on the hassle of getting a grant. Very frustrating.

[@effervescence5664]

MCS never should have been privatised or designed in the way it was. It should of always fallen onto the current inspection bodies. It's the equivalent of being Gas qualified, getting the Gas Boiler qualification and being able to sign conventional boilers off, then getting Water Heater qualified and being told you now have to sign up to "Combi Safe" as GasSafe alone isn't good enough. It was never designed to succeed but then it's a body trying to bridge electrics and home heating which are completely independent fields and rarely have engineers experienced or qualified across both.

[@samstretton3890]

I was literally about to pay for everthing to do with MCS at the start of this week, that idea went straight in the bin when i saw the octopus announcement

[@Stugadget]

To be able to sign off the building control part of the solar installation you need to be part of a competent person scheme such as NICEIC and unless your MCS registered you won’t be able to sign off the building control

[@patrickhosking613]

Sounds like a backwards step by octopus 🐙 if you ask me. I think that I would stay with the mcs scheme regardless of how they wish to operate.

[@TheRonskiman]

@@uksecco why would it be Octopus's liability anyway. They sell/buy electric from you, if your CU was poorly installed would they be liable? No they wouldn't, no different for solar, unless they actually installed it.

[@1988marksie]

@@Stugadget Could you provide the part of building regs that says this? MCS isnt the only certification scheme, and as long as a qualified electrician signs off as safe and provides the part p etc. then its not required at all as far as im aware.

[@stealthmovements8569]

All sounds like a massive contradiction to current competency and regulation system

[@mattyboy7167]

I still can't believe that these energy suppliers pay us peanuts to feed the grid compared to what they charge us per KWH. If you've got the dollar get off grid , get the air source , solar and battery storage 🔋. Great video jordan 👍

[@2391Sparks]

I hear you Jordan I really do, the mind numbing bureaucracy weighs down on businesses far to much and I’ll bet there’s times you’re sat in the office thinking you can’t do right for doing wrong and that sucks but as for five hours of checking paperwork and ten minutes looking at installs? Of course you’re going to show me the perfect job with no issues you’ve been back to a couple of times to make it a bit better each time… Your paperwork tells me an awful lot more about your approach, the training your lads have had, your attitude towards your customers and your integrity….That’s very very important. Assessors can’t check every job but you can sit in the office for half a day and drill down into a lot more..You got accredited and you deserve it, I hope your business grows because of it…

[@MrBobmeadows]

Oh Jordan, now that hurts, but Octopus' decision is a game changer for MCS. I am sure you will use the best practices you have learned on the journey to enhance Artisan Electrics customer experience.

[@artisanelectrics]

It 100% is a game changer tbh but we will always deliver the best customer experience we can.

[@jonwragg3822]

@@artisanelectricsassumes of course that the customer uses Octopus or even wants to change to Octopus.

[@georgeneil440]

@jonwragg3822 It is only Octopus now but there will be others that follow their lead in the future

[@UnfittedNoise]

Love the battering MCS are getting at the moment. Im just a consumer, and am waiting on DNO for approval for my MCS registered installer to go ahead. Sounds like a money making scheme.

[@stevendequincey7215]

My "MCS" approved installer was a nightmare. Drilled holes directly into the slate roof, missing any rafters. They came back to repair the work but I'm not 100% convinced it was ever done properly. I had a 3rd party check the work as well. They also said they had a 10 year MCS guarantee, but then gave me a 2 year MCS guarantee. I queried it with MCS who just shrugged their shoulders and said they're only approved for 2 years, so there wasn't anything they could do!

[@DIEMLtdTV]

I remember the first "green deal" and how reputable contractors avoided and many less reputable (who are no longer trading) jumped on the bandwagon. MCS is another "industry within an industry" and exists to make money for the provider (such as the awful Constructionline) and I see clients get hammered having to be members of lots of schemes, even if they hold accredited certification to standards such as ISO 9001. I was talking to a heat pump installer this year and he says they aren't MCS certified and they make a good income setting up and carrying out remedial work installed by MCS contractors. If they did away with schemes like this and simply ensured contractors held accredited certification (via a UKAS cert body) it would be far more beneficial to the industry, the customers be flexible to meet NICEIC requirements, and is far more fun! (I need to get out more!).

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Grid export seems poor value for money for your solar investment due to the rates paid - seems like it would be better to go solar+battery with no export so you don't need MCS.

[@jeffreypybus9553]

Your MCS review was spot on & 1 of the reasons I didn’t bother with renewables, more about paperwork than the installation so thumbs up to octopus energy

[@wajopek2679]

Prioritise the customers who are not with Octopus, get them to change and collect the £50

[@artisanelectrics]

👍👍

[@elslopez]

it’s the very reason it took nearly 2 years to get my high powered solar and battery install done, paperwork paperwok paperwork… I think I went through three different project managers at SSE, just to have the incoming supply moved, so that they would even entertain approving solar. Though I wonder if not requiring “as much” certification now means off to the days of the wild west in terms of installations?

[@johnjones-priorityservices3094]

I understand your frustration, went through the process last year and got MCS - not worth the accreditation as I’ve fixed loads of bad MCS installs

[@artisanelectrics]

was a frustrating experience, at least for us anyway.

[@SimplifyingChaos]

Just like yourself but from a customer point of view, I have just had solar installed by a certified MCS installer because I needed the cert to register with Octopus. On one hand, I am frustrated, that Octopus have dropped the MCS requirement, because I could have saved a lot of money as I am more than capable of doing my own install. On the other hand, I really hope that by dropping the MCS it allows more people to have solar. I am a big advocate for solar and I think this will allow more of it. Talking on a plus point of the MCS, it is about process, planning and procedures, which I found really helped from our certified installers. As a customer we had all the info and specs of what was being installed. Having this information allowed us to relax and be assured that what we ordered was right for our home and usage. I know you feel you have gained your MCS qualification at the wrong time but I would look at the process as a whole and see what has improved the customer experience and then I guess you can drop the bits that you feel are not beneficial to you or the customer. I do have a prediction: although Octopus have dropped MCS as a requirement, what would stop insurance companies making it a requirement? Octopus has stated that "they" wont be held accountable for poor installs. Just a thought.

[@VinoVeritas_]

MCS certification is not required by law. There's even a statement on its website stating such. Insurance companies were led to believe that MCS certification is some kind of guarantee, but just like Octopus Energy, they'll soon start to question it.

[@RicktheRecorder]

Fascinating and revealing. Thank you. BTW 'install' is a verb, not a noun. In England it's an installation.

[@judebrown4103]

Oh my goodness weren't there a lot of sticky fingers in that sustainable energy pie?! Not in the trade, just an interested customer but I so know that feeling of the world conspiring against you financially. We swore our next car would be EV and we'd get it used next (this)year once our mortgage finished. Then our old car got written off but things weren't as bad as we feared, the NFU insurance paid out quickly and very fairly enabling us to find the perfect used Ioniq 38kWh in a beautiful blue at a reasonable price...in August last year! It's now worth at least ten grand less than we paid for it... If we'd have been able to buy this year like we planned we'd have had to spend that much less. Turns out the car is fabulous, only a Premium, not the SE but really well specced and works for us much better than we expected. Getting around 7m/kWh at the moment too so couldn't possibly change it for that reason alone! I hope you recoup your unnecessary expenses somehow and well done Octopus for circumventing govt sanctioned extortion, better late than never! 👍

[@olski001]

Do you have to export? Can you prevent it and store and manage your own energy? With V2H (supposedly) around the corner and over 100Kw of battery storage on my drive, why would I want to make back pennies?

[@NBundyElectrical]

Good little video bud 👍

[@artisanelectrics]

Thanks

[@haydnlawrence8167]

Same thing happened over a decade ago. Sparky I know paid thousands for courses, registration and additional tools . Then after half a dozen installs , the government dropped the feed in tariffs, ending the solar install business overnight.

[@Poxenium]

All this needs to be plug and play. Paperwork and certifications are dumb. You don't need certifications to plug in a 1500 watt hair dryer or vacuum cleaner... UPS... etc...

[@Brmbaz1]

That’s very true.

[@goober-ll1wx]

I think we should call a meeting with all the heads of the electrical industry and really try to explain to them how fking broken this industry is right now and it's only getting worse, they are all working in their own self interest and making this kind of work close to impossible...

[@artisanelectrics]

We definitely need to explain to them the big issues right now and show them that not much of this is benefitting electricians.

[@goober-ll1wx]

@@artisanelectrics none of it is, I just can't get over everything you've had to do, including the loss of income for it all to not even be needed so quickly 😭 You sure are determined, that would have sent me over the edge!

[@idi0tdetectioninprogress]

When they had discussions which rumbled on for YEARS, as to whether Smart Meters should have a built in isolation switch for electrical contractors, it tells you all you need to know! The industry has turned into a complete sh1tshow, EV and PV is the golden curly turd on top.

[@goober-ll1wx]

@@idi0tdetectioninprogress there are too many parties working in their own self interest, they all want to be the origination to set the regs, sell the books/courses and enforce fines. They are all trying to make money from it, so there is no incentive for them to stop. The industry really does need a massive overhaul but no one is ever going to do that, so we just grind on, another classic case of a Moloch system...

[@nevermind824]

I had a call out to a major electrical fire, someone at a block of flats had put a pv system in and forgotten to put any MCB in at the other end. During hot weather the cables melted and just burned until the main head blew. The maintenance just saw the invertor side and nobody had been into the submain. It had all been signed off... 10mins on site 5 hours in the office sounds right

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

Yes also MCS. Needs to be simplified . Could be all done on a spreadsheet including items like risk assessment,wind loading, lightning assessment etc. Have had a customer ask me to look at his install and it also exposed that MCS not really working because 5 hrs of paperwork is not going into the tools making a nice job.

[@t67m]

I tend to agree. My solar system by an "approved" installer was poorly done, overheated and failed after 15 months. They did repair it, but it was nearly a consumer unit fire, and there was consequential damage to other systems.

[@artisanelectrics]

That's concerning to hear. It's crucial that "approved" installers maintain high standards, especially for something as critical as solar systems. Safety should never be compromised.

[@handymanny1021]

Got our MCS accreditation this week for both Solar PV and battery. It was by far the most painful and excruciating process you could imagine. As an aside the IET have a great online battery storage training course that it acceptable to MCS. It’s less than £250 and you don’t need to take time away from work if you’re prepared to SPD out in your own time.

[@highlandsparky]

It’s not much different to NAPIT, NIC, SELECT etc, you can still carry out electrical works, without being in a registered body. Although being in one is beneficial for many reasons, you know you have correct insurances, valid insurances, as well as correct procedures in place.

[@misstertash1701]

I am yet to hear anyone receive anything from Octopus without an MCS certificate. (Apart form being put on a waiting list). Also, as much as I dislike the MCS process, I believe that removing the need for it would lead to even more poor installations. It would be interesting to see if they offer the top export deals or a lower one if you do not have an MCS certificate.

[@MrBobmeadows]

Definitely have heard of Octopus allowing non-MCS sites to get 'SEG' type payments. Actual clients who applied have documented the Octopus approval, explaining it was a little more extended at the time.

[@artisanelectrics]

It was definitely good for us to get MCS approved, just was at the wrong time

[@misstertash1701]

We thought exactly the same thing as you to be honest. It was a little insulting how the assessor went through all of our paper work like we had committed a crime. Yet the he turned up at the job, said yeah that looks really nice and then went home. However I am still not 100% sure that loosing the MCS will be a good thing for the industry, unless it is replaced with something better obviously. @@artisanelectrics

[@misstertash1701]

What export tariff were they allowed on? The same export as an MCS installation. Like FLUX for example? @@MrBobmeadows

[@benjaminvivar7855]

8:25 Here in the States we follow the manufactures instructions, Why ? Because Lawyers can also read. But… if it’s an added safety issue it will be in the code and manufacturers Will eventually install according to National Electrical Code.

[@AntonyoKnight]

Efixx explained this much shorter (I understand KZbin analytics) so it was quite informative. In future Solar installation certificate will be binned along with the ev charger installer course and the manufacturers provide free trainings for their products.

[@UnitedSpotlight]

Hasn't MCS just been nerfed by Octopus basically as far as im aware they have changed there policies and are now allowing non MCS installs to get SEG as far as im concerned this is a good thing MCS from what i have seen on installs does not mean quality. id just advise anyone getting an install to do research on the company they are using to make sure they do good work above anything else

[@artisanelectrics]

Yes the Octopus announcement has nerfed MCS a lot 👍

[@chrisyoung7362]

Ocptopus are doing the right thing ridding MCS for SEG payments, more customers for them at the end of the day. The DNO need to tighten their belt, maybe allow financial penalties "cough Ofgem" for systems connected to the grid outside of theyre scope of approval otherwise people can manipulate more power to Increase SEG payments i.e adding more solar than capacity allows, surely disrupts harmonics of the grid? which is my opinion anyway

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Surprised that Octopus can unilateraly allow non-MCS export without DNO approval - isn't this supposed to be about safety? If so, surely the DNO have a say in it?

[@fire_stick]

i’m sure the DNO still have to be advised via the usual forms G99 form i think not sure, efixx just did a video covering it.

[@SteveN-pw4dj]

It's amazing how all these schemes to protect customers cost them a fortune. This green thing is one big con at the moment.

[@VinoVeritas_]

It's not a con.

[@SteveN-pw4dj]

So why is it i can go to wolsleys and buy a vaillant heat pump for about 7k with my own plumber installing it of around a grand.... But i'm not allowed to because i cant get it certified.... 5 grand extra for a bit of paper.. Really...

[@VinoVeritas_]

@@SteveN-pw4dj This is about solar PV installation, not heat pumps.

[@SteveN-pw4dj]

It's the same with them, I can't just let my electrician do it as he doesn't have the correct certificates. And it needs to be registered with the DNO which only a certified installer can do.

[@VinoVeritas_]

@@SteveN-pw4dj Can you tell me which certification is required when applying for a G99 connection or making a G98 notification? ERECs G98 and G99 will help you.

[@timahad5165]

So glad I never bothered with MCS (money collection services)

[@artisanelectrics]

Haha nice name

[@lnostdal]

This is why I go for an off-grid (hybrid inverter that doesn't feed back to grid at all; basically 0 paperwork needed here) and just use a Bitcoin miner to sell extra energy. 15kW, 30kWh. Leaning on government is just going to screw everyone over eventually IMO.

[@justme5384]

9:08 we need to have the AC safety switch on the outside and accessible by the DNO and the location of the safety switch is written in the meter box

[@DavidMcLaren94]

We have been MCS certified since it’s existed. It’s a testing scheme but is important for controlling everyone. I don’t mind the audits, paperwork or associated additional works caused by MCS.

[@richardwhitehouse8762]

I had pvs installed in 2019. Initially the export was a doddle and between April and September 2020, I didn't spend anything on utilities. When the retail market was upended I became a British Gas customer by default. ARGH! I waited until last year to become a customer of Octopus. Much preferred them (agile tariffs etc). BUT. It took me a while to realise that I wasn't actually signed up for pv exports with them (don't ask). When it finally dawned on me I started to learn about the flexiorb Vs MCs connundrum. That was in Feb and at that point Octopus were adamant they would only accept MCS. I was looking at having one supplier for utility imports and another for exports. So I moved. To be honest I don't get the best export rate and it's only paid annually, so maybe even it's paid next year I'll move back. Given that solar pvs (particularly post feed in tariff) are a relatively new industry, you'ld think that there could have been some thinking beforehand about how to make it all seemless. Or not. Sorry to hear about your experience of Just wanted to share the pain. Love your channel.😊

[@IanBendall-d5j]

Great vid,as a spark i decided to go down solar 10yrs ago,mcs through niceic.only ended doing 8 installs before they dropped the fit to 4p and the work dried up.glad i learnt something new,big outlay and loads of paperwork but glad im out of it.

[@zenthor13]

So those solar panels mounted in the back ground are just what I thought I needed for my flat roof. Up here in Surrey / Kent I couldn’t find an installer interested in using that system - any advice please?

[@shuhel02]

8:00 - Adding the DC isolator switch is common sense. Follow the manufacturers guideline to keep the inverter warranty valid should be top priority.

[@Beariam24]

I feel your pain. Iv paid a company to carry out the difficult paperwork, paid for MCS and now just paid to up date my qualifications which elapsed 2 months ago all to get it with assessment next month. I could of used this massive chunk of money in better ways for my business and family and now all I had to say was go with octopus energy, can’t believe it

[@fastcutsounds]

My installer is supposed to get their MCS accreditation next month but my PV / battery system went in last week, so in the meantime I approached Octopus (already my supplier) about this change in the Ts and Cs and to get on the Flux tariff. Firstly, I had to speak to someone on the phone as you can't do the regular online application without an MCS certificate. I was sent a link to an online form where I could register my interest to hear when I could apply. It is very much a trial for them to work out the best way of doing it, and yes it will cost £250 with no guarantee of acceptance.

[@ianbeck5897]

Being honest, as a customer, what you stated in your video gave me some confidence that installers have been measured to meet a certain standard and that by conforming, there is a chance that the installation will be reasonable. Obviously, this doesn't police what actually happens on site, but it does establish a standard that many installers will work to. As a retired electrical engineer, I understand what is and is not safe, at least in my specialism. The average customer wont be in a position to do that so benefits from the overseeing of some outside agency. If MCS is fit for purpose is another matter - but what you have described makes sense to me, even if it may appear over the top. Having run my own business I do appreciate that accreditation comes with significant cost and that this comes off the bottom line. I also get that many of these licences and certificates are basically quangos that seem to offer nothing. It is, however, how the wheels of commerce work and buys a seat at the table and the customer ends up paying for these but, in return, gets some assurance that the installer meets some common standard, even if cowboys find a way around it. As for Octopus - they are forward thinking and realise that there are many ways to get revenue, some not involving MCS. It's fine if you are an Octopus customer to not have an MCS install. However, if you are not or if you choose to move, it may be that another energy supplier requires an MCS approved installation so the customer is stuffed if MCS is not stamped.

[@HYUKLDER1]

From what you say, it seems MCS is more like an ISO quality system standard rather than an engineering standard.

[@Actual_electrical_content]

Got to say I feel for you on this one Jordan , you got mugged off you spent probably 10k and you just gave it all away in a 12 minuet video as well as then octopus saying MCS is no longer required and the fact your about to get slammed by MCS for slagging them off that is against the T&C,s it’s always been a protection racket and the hero’s are octopus , meanwhile I’ve been slamming in batteries at 2k Profit a pop for months without even PART P

[@artisanelectrics]

😂😂😂

[@Spark101.]

Great news……although it looks like energy providers might move away from this scheme soon!

[@artisanelectrics]

We got it which is good but at the wrong time 🕰️

[@justme5384]

You know what license I need to install solar? Just the regular license I have that is one license, I can install anything below 1000VAC and 1500VDC and work as a electrician. And my employee's needs to have done a three year trade school or equivalent in trade working. They don't need any licenses or anything, I'm responsible for them

[@guffermeister]

AS per usual with these things they grow legs. It's fine for the throw it in and run brigades. As the IET is so slow to respond it probably made sense, but these stuff should just be part of the wiring regs, so having it done like that probably made some sense initially. Be worth looking at what other countries do? We do love our red tape in the UK....

[@gavjlewis]

Getting rid of MSC will be the game charger for the solar business. Why are we currently using expensive electricians on roofs! You will be able to work with a roofing contractor so they can install the panels. They will be quicker and cheaper freeing up electricians so you can get more installs done per week.

[@theresistancesparks]

Interesting to see you guys installed so many systems without MCS backing! In terms of alternatives - there is always the other government approved scheme for renewables with DNO gateway - Flexi-Orb?

[@artisanelectrics]

Glad you enjoyed the video! and glad you got what you wanted in the end.

[@theresistancesparks]

@@artisanelectrics So, if I understood that bit in the video correctly - when you register to MCS via NICEIC route you have to sign up to two separate schemes? One for PV and one for battery storage?

[@artisanelectrics]

Yes you would be correct

[@janholland2224]

I am in IT and IT security where we have quite a lot of these formal schemes (way too much). The good news is they all boil down to the same thing so your effort is not wasted. Don't try to derive any useful meaning from these schemes as they are primarily formal (not necessarily reality relevant). I hope MCS or similar schemes will offer you at least some sales leads? Cheers, Jan

[@mondotv4216]

That’s crazy. I accept that you need to use approved panels and inverters but the amount of paperwork just adds cost to the consumer. You don’t have to jump through that many hoops for a whole house install which us much more complicated.

[@NikumbaUK]

When I had my solar installed just over a year ago I was not aware of the MCS requirement for Octopus so initially I was not able to get the SEG from them. The company I bought my system from was certified by Flexi-Orb so my install is registered under the scheme which Octopus did not support, however where MCS gets silly I think is the people who installed my solar are MCS certified, but since they did not own the contract to install the solar they could not certify it for MCS. That just boggled the mind if the installer is MCS certified, install it to those standard but can not give me a cert for it is crazy but oh well. As you say in your video with Octopus not needing MCS should change things a lot, also will open the door I think to more things like micro wind turbines on homes and hopefully push domestic renewables forward.

[@markrainford1219]

Micro wind turbines on homes was a fad twenty years ago, they even sold them in B&Q. They produced pathetic amounts of energy, packed up within two years and created airborne noise pollution, and transmitted noise via vibration through the building.

[@NikumbaUK]

20 years ago maybe, but technology changes, of course I am sure local planning laws are still in the dark ages so might hamper things, but this change would give more people to look at other options, especially if they can get paid for it. @@markrainford1219

[@norgtube]

MCS labelling reqs are great I think, they're tremendously helpful for troubleshooting and general info.

[@ciaranflynn6291]

I totally understand why MCS require a DC isolator. It's the safest "catch-all" scenario. It's rare that the inverter has that built-in.

[@Ewanl31]

Surely with paperclip not having the correct paperwork for what is basic installations nowadays you can look to cancel off the contract if that paperwork isn't available.

[@ryannowell3802]

I am not sure if it is the same in England but in Scotland your customers need you to be MCS accredited so that they can apply for the grant/loan scheme. So even if it is not worth having as an installer it's a big selling point for the customer (at least in Scotland)

[@ryannowell3802]

If you want I would be happy to discuss what is required from a customer stand point because it is also not straightforward and is confusing!

[@VinoVeritas_]

The 0% loan scheme is now only available for solar PV when installed with a heat pump. Customers that qualified for the 0% loan scheme also paid well above the odds.

[@yellownev]

If it's complicated for you ( and it sounds horrendously so ) what about the customers - how are we supposed to know who to use and what qualifications they should have and indeed how the job should be done ! You have my utmost sympathy dealing with all this slow time, behind the curve bureaucracy . I thought the Octopus announcement was only for certain pre approved installs on a trial basis ?

[@ParksElectrical]

Just called Octopus, and at this time they are only considering dropping the MCS requirements and it is yet to be decided. Currently you still need an MCS certificate to be paid for export.

[@markrainford1219]

It's already on their website under Export Tariff Eligibility section 5.8

[@floridahummer]

thing is most people, ie joe blog dont understand if you grab a DC power line your not letting go were as AC it at least throws you of,

[@leet3707]

As Octopus has just kicked MCS down the road and allowing any qualified electrician to install and connect a Solar PV system with access to their premium Export tariffs. It's about time this protectionism was removed and allow customers better choice without being ripped off by 'MCS installers'. No doubt many other SEG providers will follow suit and watch MCS fall by the wayside. I've seen many "quality assured MCS" installations that don't comply with Electrical Regs, let alone any MCS assurances. Good Riddance.. For any electricians, forget MCS, install Solar and tell your customers yo go with an Energy provider who thinks out the box on Grid Supply and Demand with intuitive tariffs that work for their customers and stick two-fingers to the whole scheme. My experience with MCS installers- Double the price... typical government bureaucracy..

[@retroclickmedia4422]

Had this 30 years ago for BS5750, money for the boys

[@andyhodchild8]

I always did my own qms based on the old Apendix A built out in an excel spreadsheet.

[@imark7777777]

Yeah I think the problem is in the name where it says "scheme" like why are you including self-destruct buttons on your inventions?

[@fire_stick]

so glad i’m with Octopus energy, I assume a home owner can notify the DNO of a system connected to the grid without and not just an electrician. will have to check the G forms.

[@artisanelectrics]

Yes, exactly

[@voltare2amstereo]

advantage to having it, though. Is you can proove to customers, your installs are legit. You quality check the install, not the customer, who lets face it, don't know and don't care, so long as insurance pays out if a battery fails catastrophically

[@sammyb99]

We’ve doing this on the heat pump side but what a faff. I guess the only bonus is that because not a lot of people have gone down mcs it means can charge for it

[@TheErador]

This is literally ISO9001 by the back door

[@nathanairey7795]

Hi Jordan, I see you used SPD's for the install at the Inverter side, did you also have them 10m from the Install as well as per reg 534.4. 4.2 or only the ones visible in the video?

[@mcirenew2157]

Don't stick it out with Pclip! I was with them years ago and stayed the course too long. It isn't worth it. Take the hit and shift. Easy MCS all the way.

[@artisanelectrics]

Good to hear your input!

[@rich1483]

So how much money to get the registration for a small buisness?

[@AUBigwozza]

Great Video. Even though I'm in Australia and about to install a 19K solar array I found this really useful. Down here we tend to rely on Finn Peacock of Solar Quotes for our info, but its good to to hear what is going on in "ol Blighty"

[@dstat79]

I don’t think that mcs will die out mate, the industry needs regulating and as already stated it’s a money spinner. Sounds like it needs tweaking though especially regarding site visits.

[@artisanelectrics]

It 100% needs tweaking

[@sarahjrandomnumbers]

And people wonder why I just DIY installed my battery system. Didn't want to spend an extra £3k on pointless red tape. DNO is happy with my G98 form, just waiting for Octopus to sort their stuff out so I can get an export MPAN. Now I just have to wait until some local sparky's (Leicester based) want to dip their toe into renewables, and are happy to throw 4 500w panels on my brick walled shed roof. Already got 500w on there, so rip them out, and over panel 2kw.:)

[@adamsmithelec]

I was considering getting into PV installs but I don’t think I’ll bother now! I live in London zone 2 so don’t think there’s a huge market for it round here and I’m sure there any many companies to compete with already! Think I’ll stick with domestic and light commercial for now

[@steveday6104]

Could not agree more. Our process to get approved was a complete nightmare as like you said the admin side is full on. Octopus announcement is very interesting, watch this space then ???

[@jacopo.scarpellini]

Not needed and required are not conflicting requirement, right?

[@timballam3675]

Where Octopus lead the others follow, British Gas now giving 1/2 price electricity for part of Sunday to try and compete with Octopus and advertising it massively! How about they pay the same amount for feed in?

[@seymourpro6097]

Some places could be totally off grid with solar and batteries but it's outside the knowledge of any UK estate agent so it's probably not a selling point. Just think of the current edition number of the wiring regs, they were simple once and as new gadgets arrived and newbuild homes exceeded one power point per room(!) they became complex. Solar regs will do the same and change every few years. Modern business is NOT about doing the job it's about having the paperwork to show it was done properly and passes handover testing.

[@idi0tdetectioninprogress]

Solar and batteries not a big selling point. Not all mortgage lenders look kindly on properties with solar panels. How does one maintain/repair a roof covered in solar panels? Then theres those locked into some awful installation contracts, so you either take it on, or buy it out on completion of sale. Once one of these battery sets goes up in flames, insurance companies will come right down on these crazy things being housed in domestic property.

[@SolarResurrection]

Great octopus no longer require MCS approval.... I am just a DIY guy.. I might get thing running again...I decided solar not really worth it because all cost is in winter heating and you do not use much electric in summer.. But if I can export in the summer to offset winter cost solar might be worthi it.. Sure you will get more customers now octopus are offeing a decent rate of export...Thanks for info.

[@stevoc4023]

Unfortunately, someone will get injured or worse by a dodgy Dave installer and then the regs will change and MCS requirement or similar will return. Customers will get crap work, possibly dangerous. I don't like the idea of having to pay for extra certification but ultimately, the cost gets passed on to the customer and the work is guaranteed.

[@artisanelectrics]

That is a good way to look at it 🤔

[@tantanman2852]

@@artisanelectricsYou are one of probably a few companies who could get away without as you have proven your work over and over on KZbin in a very public manner. Most electricians do not, and it’s very hard for an end consumer to really know whether company A or B will be a better choice in terms of quality as most of what you do goes over a regular persons head. Having MCS gives some sort of guarantee that as you say those companies have adequate processes internally. Surely for an electrician the electrical side is easier than the management and process side. After all that’s the main part of the job.

[@JohnMcGing1]

As just a guy who'd be a customer, I realize you have a burden of paperwork but I'm not seeing anything I as a customer would be OK with you not doing. I want a warranty, a list of equipment installed, packets of info for me and any subsequent professionals who'd be dealing with my home and system, properly labeled setup, and confidence that you know what you are doing. Might be a burden to you but would you really be OK with providing a customer with less? Glitches not withstanding

[@markrainford1219]

Excellent video, and well done to Octopus Energy.

[@GuyM-hp6in]

Solar is a total shambles. We bought a bungalow this year with PV solar panels fitted. It was previously exporting but on applying for an export tariff via Octopus, Northern Powergrid advised something called G98/G99 paperwork had never been supplied, this is even though the installation has a MCS certificate, existing MPAN, recorded export data etc etc (hmmm). Their advice? Contact the original installer to get a copy and re-apply. The original solar installer went into liquidation in 2019 so now our only other option seems to be get another company to recommission the panels and issue the required paperwork at whatever cost that will entail. In the meantime, our solar appears to be exporting unused power to somewhere as the export readings keep going up. Anyone ever been in this situation? For now, we're trying to make the most of solar during the daytime, when funds allow we intend to have battery storage fitted hence are reluctant to incur significant spend now for very low likely returns on any export tariff. Utilities in general are increasingly just a cash cow for shareholders and gov't, it is all beyond frustrating.

[@Bozebo]

Wait if your panels are exporting... that means the network operator is stealing it off you if you aren't getting paid right? They are technically then selling it to someone else which is even worse.

[@GuyM-hp6in]

@@Bozebo Yup, absolute robbing dogs. Only just got it sorted nearly a year after starting the 'battle'. Still waiting to see any pennies but I have it in writing the panels are now connected to an export tariff, albeit not the one I asked for. As a result of that Octopus advised they can't give me their 'fan club' because I'm not on the right export tariff, argh! I'm too invested (stubborn?) now to give up, it's become a sort of quest with (hopefully) some kind of exporting money grail at the end of it.

[@electrician247]

Manufacturers dictating what we need as installers can get in the bin! I am sick and tired of having to do this training have that badge etc... No! Simply manufacturer the equipment and sell it with detailed instructions to qualified electricians. The rest is NONE of their business. None. Totally agree on paperclip and HIES as well. Same mistake. I do think the focus is on the export payment but we need to remember the building regs aspect and insruance. I dont see MCS going anywhere due to that.

[@markrainford1219]

Totally agree on 'if manufacturers' instructions are followed; then it will comply'. The regs even state that.

[@VinoVeritas_]

That's what a Building Notice is for. No need for MCS.

[@electrician247]

@VinoVeritas_ good luck with that in terms of cost and administration. Deluded if you believe it's easier outside of MCS on that front. Are you involved in construction? I agree the entire MCS process is a mess having just gone through it myself. But some serious misconceptions are in place. Not helped by some of these bodies it has to be said.

[@VinoVeritas_]

@@electrician247 The idea of allowing a spark to notify under Part A of the Building Regulations just because they spent 4 days on a BPEC Solar PV course is absolutely ridiculous to begin with. Also, 99.9% of the time, nobody is carrying out a structural survey of the roof.

[@electrician247]

@VinoVeritas_ it's true some of the structural engineer reports are not very good. But that's a separate issue MCS or otherwise. So irrelevant in context of this discussion. Again you said that's what building control is for... which is true but equally so is MCS and CPS for that matter on part P. I know which is lower cost and easier for installers and consumers. Its not the option you present. You are also making the mistake of assuming it is "just" electricians installing these systems. Very often involves the work, input and skills of roofing experts. This is when MCS and installer working correctly within that come into their own. I support deregulation generally. But this is not what is happening with octopus. That is just opening up the sale of energy between a supplier and consumer. Which is absolutely fine but a separate dynamic to how people like yourself are presenting it. Important to keep to what is actually going on and the mechanisms that apply whatever we think of them. 😉

[@bromwichbloke]

For your quality management system you could approach a company called citation based in Norwich who will walk you through the ISO 9001 process and write your manual and procedures.

[@lewistempleman9752]

try just whacking them in and not worrying about certification/paperwork etc

[@scottcoleman2660]

It’s amazing how similar my experience of this is. Only difference would be went with easy mcs but that just feels like let another firm skimming off the industry. We’re now in a situation where if we sack it off at the end of the year will something happen that’ll make us regret it. On the flip side, we’ve won jobs as a result of being mcs so maybe it still holds value 🤷‍♂️

[@artisanelectrics]

I totally get where you're coming from. Weighing the pros and cons of MCS can be challenging. If it's bringing in jobs, it might still have its value, but it's all about finding the right balance for your situation.

[@ecoterrorist1402]

Google drive - forget paper thing and other software, it offers version no

[@robtheplod]

Any training or quality assurance needs to be attainable free otherwise theres always doubt over it?

[@gerardphillips7507]

So the latest info from Octopus is very interesting.... MCS no longer required

[@paulizz]

Try doing ISO 9001 :)

[@Jim804]

Nice garden!

[@4211234]

how can MCS or any other organ like that tell you to not follow the product instructions? just curious how it works in england, Product instructions if that product has been approved for installation trumps your regulations