Octopus Energy Unplugs MCS Certification for Solar Panel Installations

[@efixx]

The Dark Side of Solar -eFIXX TV with Griff Thomas - kzbin.info_1vHVUAMkzs?feature=share Vehicle to Grid (V2G) technology - kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWjRgHeuoN98pqs Learn more about GTEC's renewable energy training courses hub.efixx.co.uk/gtec-training

[@alanclark2584]

Brilliant news, know Octopus were being investigated by "rip off Britain "as they were getting huge referral kickback payments for prearranged contractors depending on array size purchased. MCS also "sold the recommended tools", and insisted on installers being members of a consumer group ant another £400. More MCS kickbacks. In Australia I can buy a 6.6KW system for £1.750 installed. Even trade here I pay £85 for a 400W panel, huge prices being charged because installers have many hands to feather. Had some huge rows with Octopus over this..and you still cannot get the outgoing octopus rate, as the online application insists on MCS numbers before allowing progression, even for those with Octopus.....Complaint lodged today.

[@alanclark2584]

seems like the racketeering continues, nothing to stop them taking the £250 fee for nothing , then crashing any export payment to 1p/kw/hr. Better than the backhanders from the installers they were getting, at £500-£2K per customer referral.... oh they are still happening, this is an extra.

[@alanclark2584]

unfortunately I believe that sticking to the MCS credential which is not a legal requirement is just too profitable for Octopus due to the huge backhanders in customer referrals. I'm in the same boat and will be pleased if accepted but in my experience when companies are faced with better for environment or income, income wins every time.

[@alanclark2584]

I am now being paid by octopus for exports, system has full buildings cert, and electrical certs backed by G99. Bit long winded going down that route, but can achieve a 7.2KW system with 10KW battery storage for 6k with less than 3 year payback. My combined DD with Octopus is now £1 a month down from almost £200. Very pleased indeed. Just doing an install of a friends premises now and its even cheaper as prices have dropped further. (now 5k inc batteries). Should help to put downward pressure on the extortionate prices charged by most installers.

[@jonowilson62]

Not before time, as a self installer being held to ransom by the MCS scheme was ridiculous, well done Octopus

[@mb-3faze]

Yup - because it was impossible to get MCS certification as a competent DIY (without the supplier of the equipment offering -and charging- to 'remotely certify' for you) you end up exporting to the grid any excess for free (after charging batteries) - and of course, the DNO wasn't going to be informed either!

[@sarahjrandomnumbers]

In the same position as you. Self installed, G98 done and dusted, just waiting for Octopus to get their process sorted.

[@MichaelBevan-s2n]

I called them and they said it's not true and wont help me, i am waiting for a manager to call me back @@sarahjrandomnumbers

[@rusty911s2]

It was a totally ridiculous situation where UK Power Networks accepting my micro-generation (sub 3.7kw) system, would allow me to feed to and from the grid, yet it apparently wasn't good enough to actually pay me for my output. Well done Octopus! Great news from a great company that I'm pleased to be with.

[@stevethomas695]

Great move by Octopus, as a trained part p electrician. I installed the DC side of my installation myself and to get full certification I employed a currently qualified electrician to sign off the AC side. I had quotes before deciding to install myself, but it was so expensive the long payback couldn't justify the initial cost. Hopefully at some point i can benefit from energy going back to the grid. Although not essential, for now I spent part of the massive savings on DIY on additional batteries. I used a company called plug-in solar, based in the UK. For equipment and support. Very helpful in deed.

[@DJDougz]

MCS offered little to no protection to customers during the demise of the FITs scheme for PV. The Regs cover PV, so I don't see any issue with Octopus no longer requiring MCS for PV installs, where export is being sought by a customer. Hydro never required MCS, and installs could be DIY and still receive export payments back in the day.

[@weep5426]

Just another scam by REMFS sitting in an office somewhere.

[@lordshredsworth7772]

Thank fuck. I'm trying to expand my company I currently offer solar, but getting my subcontractors the training and dealing with MCS is a total waste of money and time. I thought I might have to give up and drop a couple of guys. This is very good news for us and clients.

[@mb-3faze]

Amazing - Octopus have actually listened to my many requests for exactly this! (OK - I'm not *really* taking credit but I did ask many times.)

[@mikehenley1948]

Another good and well thought through decision by the only innovative energy supplier in the UK. Octopus has becoming the only welcoming home for customers with solar, batteries and EVs.

[@andyspringall3364]

I have contacted Octopus Energy twice since watching this video. Both contacts have said you DO need an MCS certificate.

[@asabriggs6426]

Having seen a relative's solar install I can't say the MCS accreditation ensured a good installation. PV polarity reversed, CT clamp the wrong way round, wires routed through the inverter heatsink, incorrect ventilation spacing above the heatsink, incorrect inverter firmware, incorrect grid settings, incorrect G98 (rather than G99/G100) notification filed with the DNO, unlabelled PV cables, minimal handover documentation. I think MCS provided a barrier to entry, so am glad Octopus have removed it and opened up this part of the industry to all-comers.

[@stevethomas695]

My DIY installation ensured non of the above occurred. I trained myself utilising the massive scope of free resources available available.

[@DoctorElectricYouTube]

Really pleased to see some common sense in the electrical industry. I have seen plenty of Solar PV installations that are shoddy to say the least. It doesn't make a difference if you're MCS registered or not, if you're going to complete poor electrical installations then you'll complete poor electrical installations whether or not you're MCS registered or not!

[@johnjones-priorityservices3094]

I’m MCS and have carried out lots of repairs on poor workmanship - MCS is an admin exercise not quality control - glad of the change

[@mb-3faze]

This is great. You could offer a service to DIY (or pro) installs to provide reassurance that an install would meet the MCS standard - without actually having to trawl through the paperwork and registration. The power factor measurements and other things you're supposed to fill in on the application form are hardly relevant for what is now essentially a plug and play setup. However, customers - even DIY people, might just want assurance that what they have done is OK.

[@edc1569]

How do we ensure good quality installs tho?

[@johnjones-priorityservices3094]

The MCS is only a paper trail assessment, my site assessment was only 10mins - if you mainly do solar then your Napit / NICEIC inspections should be on those sites

[@robinlander1158]

Yes, We were generally pleased with our PV installation, both in the performance, and the quality of the wiring. we were however not happy with the fact that the installers seemed to damage the roofing felt more then was necessary. I wondered if that was something that MCS covered, but apparently not.

[@bm97ppc]

Defiantly a good move, I have not seen the purpose of MCS since the end of FIT. They have just been racketeering ever since.

[@ladams5356]

Definitely I’d say 😂👍

[@andyhodchild8]

They were racketeering throughout the FITs scheme.

[@NotoriousWhistler]

How can a charity-owned not-for-profit be racketeering? 🤔🤔

[@ladams5356]

@@NotoriousWhistler profit since 2018

[@andyhodchild8]

@NotoriousWhistler because its MCS charity register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=1165752&subid=0

[@ianmorgan8558]

Amazing, have done the training and installed my own. MCS was way too much paperwork and giving money to organisations left right and centre. NAPIT, NICEIC etc should just monitor the installers as part of our annual inspection.

[@sang3Eta]

If they allowed DIY micro inverters up to 13A to export that would really open up the market.

[@BlazingSaddles129]

This is good news, I've been a PV installer for around 15 years and have been involved in assessments for many MCS accredited companies and from experience a lot of the assessors are a little aggressive, not all but some. This will open up the market but hopefully it won't be like the Wild West.

[@philswhite1]

Late to the party, but I will add my tuppence worth. I am an end customer who had a 5.2 MW system installed by my NAPIT-certified electrician. At the time of writing this, Octopus are still requiring an MCS certificate. Sadly, the entire premise of the video is unfounded. No MCS, no export tariff.

[@craigbutler6243]

Ive talked about this in a face book group & one point that was raised by a member was when home owners go to sell the buyers solicitor ask for an mcs cert if solar is fitted....we need a good few weeks/months for the dust to settle here I think.

[@spiralx6249]

Except that today - 4 October 2023, Octopus are telling me they DO still want an MCS. And their "Outgoing" tariff sign-up page still requires it.

[@jamescrickmore8961]

So happy with this announcment. I was going to stop my mcs membership in March anyway due to there being an excessive amount of paperwork and photos etc. Also the cost involved in getting and continuing accreditation for someone who does so few job made it expensive. Well done octopus for once again revolutionising the industry. They are the most forward thinking supplier for sure. Now my exisitng customers could use me instead of some cowboy solar company. I have seen so many mcs installs that have been absolutly awful. Mcs does not make the install better. It has just made a lot of companies a lot of money.

[@edc1569]

I have not heard of MCS ever stepping in to help consumers who have had suffered from poor workmanship. Good riddance.

[@VinoVeritas_]

That's because MCS always pointed the consumer at the trade body (NICEIC or NAPIT) that was responsible for the accreditation process and annual audit. Any organisation that relies on membership for income will be hesitant to withdraw accreditation. After all, you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[@edc1569]

@@VinoVeritas_ MCs was meant to protect the taxpayer, from what you describe it never actually achieved this.

[@VinoVeritas_]

@@edc1569 It was supposed to protect bill payers money as that's how the Feed In Tariff scheme subsidy is paid. The FIT scheme ended in 2019 though, so since then MCS has just been hanging around like a bad smell.

[@effervescence5664]

We were having a headache getting MCS organised as we're across multiple renewables and this honestly is the biggest common sense move that could of been made. They never should have allowed MCS to go from government to private enterprise anyway as it should of been handed off to NICEIC etc in the first place. It's the equivalent of handing off Heat Pumps to a body other than GasSafe and then that body not checking installers have capped the gas off legally because it's covered under a different body. In our view anyway.

[@VinoVeritas_]

But NICEIC and NAPIT are private companies also. Both of these organisations share as much blame as MCS when it comes to being spineless when dealing with their members.

[@GGR_Matt]

This is great news. The amount of awful "MCS approved" installations we have seen is unbelievable. Speaking as someone who was MCS approved durng the FIT hayday and who is currently about to be re-approved for solar and battery, none of the hoops we are having to jump through bear any relation to the electrical installation side of the projects we undertake. MCS has taught us how to run a tight ship in terms of our own company operation, which in itself is a good thing, but in terms of the quality of installations, that has always been down to the pride we take in our work and the adherence to the regulations and manufaturers instructions for the products we install. I think this is a GREAT move on the part of Octopus and hopefully will either spark a change in how MCS operates as an organisation, or will mark its demise. Work quality will continue to vary widely, regardless of the existance of MCS: as in all trades, there are good tradesmen and bad tradesmen and the difference between the two, in my experience bears no relation to whether or not they belong to a specific organisation or registration body.

[@TrevorStubbins]

Just tried to sign-up. Octopus are saying that they won't accept an application without MCS, even though I've provided the DNO registration and they have the MPAN. However, they may in future, if you pay them £250. So that's 1,666KWh @ 15p you need to generate just to cover that cost, (333 days @ 5KWh per day). I won't be paying.

[@PlexusElectrical]

It is 100% the right way to go. The NICEIC and other bodies do a much better job at making sure installations and there members are properly insured and certified than MCS have been doing, sales companies have been selling solar and using any contractor to install not following regs and getting a monopoly on the market in an unsafe manner.

[@davesoton20]

A well balanced opinion I thought. MCS is just a paper exercise that just creates a closed barrier to entry market. I know they think they add massive value but in reality there are a lot of poor installs by MCS installers. Do MCS inspect installs? No...so a company can get MCS but farm the work out to anyone and sign it off without any quality control. By the way, the video didn't cover existing installs. Lots out there that don't have MCS that could now get SEG finally.

[@Stugadget]

The installation of Solar PV requires building control notification for both the new electrical circuit and the roof work. I am certified with the MCS & NICEIC and therefore I can issue a building control notice which covers both aspects of the building control notice. If I wasn't registered with the MCS I would only be able to issue the building control notice covering the electrical part. This means that you would at risk of breaking the building regulations.

[@DarrenRavenscroft]

On the flip side of this, I'm having a large extension built and so I'm already engaged with a surveyor and building control. For £250 extra, they'll check the solar install doesn't break building regs etc. My Electrician can self cert the rest. Which is all still absolutely miles (over 50%) cheaper than going down the quotes I got from MCS approved installers.

[@davepoul8483]

Hello again.. this is the replay from Octopus.. We do not require an MCS number for all the tariffs, but Outgoing is one of them for which we do require said number, as well as the DNO letter, if required in the enrollment form. Kind regards, so if they need an MCS for outgoing tarriff whats going on?? Dave.

[@Beariam24]

Can’t believe this! Iv literally spent £1000 getting MCs ready and this comes out just my luck. And I believe this is a great idea getting great sparks out there doing better jobs than these big firms and cutting them out and doing better installs

[@hoverbovver]

A 1 year old house near me burnt down. Too much damage to find out what the real cause was but something in the loft to do with the solar install was the likely one. Especially as the neighbour who had a similar install had his inverter catch fire shortly before. As this must have been MCS approved and used MCS approved inverters what does it say about their process?

[@dooz100]

Great move by Octopus Energy, sadly I had poor customer service regarding the solar and MCS certification

[@stevethomas695]

To update my Solar journey. I installed two 4.8kW batteries. I now have set up ECO7 tarriff with Octopus thus allowing me to charge my batteries overnight on cheap rate electricity and use during the day. Charge times can easily be adjusted moving into winter compensating for less daylight. It's a no brainer if you have Solar batteries. 8:11

[@edwardpickering9006]

Also make sure the electrician has access to a decent roofer, getting the rails installed on roofs can be as tricky as wiring up the inverter!

[@philipholme9911]

I am MCS certified and yes the paper trail is thorough, however this is changing and as a sole trader if I can allocate time to sort it out then other businesses can. I have seen some shoddy MCS installs, just like have seen shoddy installs for NAPIT and NIC EIC so it think it’s a dumbing down of the industry. It will be interesting to see what MCS,NIC EIC, ENA and the insurance industry have to say about this, after all the electrical wiring regulations only came into force because the insurance industry was concerned about the number of house fires.

[@stephenrudd9378]

That’s good news, I had a MCS company install my solar and batteries, first had a very long wait before the work is carried out and have to say the standard of workmanship was poor and had to get the items rectified so I am happy.

[@pooley2853]

Any idea when octopus are actually going to go through with this ?

[@petersort2192]

As a retired electrican i fitted my own 3.6 kw solar system i have G98 cert but it buged me i had to give away any power i did not use so this is good news

[@LeighWinspear]

or use a battery........;)

[@petersort2192]

i have 9.5 klwh of storage but my system is so good its full by mid day@@LeighWinspear

[@MrTwoZZT]

@@LeighWinspear Ive got a DIY Solar install and a battery and I still exported 800Kwh back into the grid last year which I got nothing for but someone will have profited from. I'm already an Octopus customer so hoping to now sign up to export and get paid now. The other option is I could be selfish and configure the inverter to limit export.

[@ChrisWhirledge]

Thrilled by this. Our supplier promised the paperwork but has been so busy it's not ben provided.. will be joining Octopus as soon as our existing contrsct expires...

[@cunningiain5594]

I had to prove to Octopus Energy a couple of years ago that my PV system was certified by an approved MCS contractor who had ceased trading 8 years ago and no longer on the MCS approved list. I could prove that the electrical contractor was a NICEIC approved contractor, eventually I found a ‘bit’ of paperwork that Octopus would accept.

[@andrew9466]

In my experience, it does not offer you protection going for an mcs certified contractor. As always go with recommendations to select a contractor.

[@miked8623]

We already have the ENA register which is an acceptable standard for the DNO. So completing and installation within in the regs and using approved equipment ,then good riddance to mcs and all it has become is a paper trail againt the cosumer getting a good deal ,Companys can now focus on good installation s without a 1k page handover folder

[@maesyfelin-isaf]

My accredited installer failed to provide the MCS certificate or the back to grid certification. I ended up getting both myself by talking to both MCS and National Grid direct to get certified.

[@ryannowell3802]

In Scotland there is still value to going with an MCS accredited installer because they are able to apply for the grants /loans available from Home Energy Scotland. These can be worth up to a large sum of money particularly if installing all three, heat pump, solar PV and battery storage.

[@malpracticesurf]

I think i'm right in my understanding that you can attach/feed in up to 800W without having to notify the DNO. This is relevant for the plug-in/balcony solar systems coming on to the market that are popular in europe.

[@MrTwoZZT]

That is correct for the UK currently, or at least it is in the North East.

[@edc1569]

Is this documented somewhere? Never heard of this rule - makes sense though.

[@chaswinder]

@@edc1569 - see for example page 34 "EREC G98 exceptions" here - www.pluginsolar.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/G98-Guide-for-Single-Premises-Full.pdf

[@robinlander1158]

I wondered if MCS certification would be a requirement when selling a house with solar pv fitted.

[@ops-uk]

Great news. I signed up to MCS and paid for 8 months but they still didn't get around to my approval. I cancelled and got refunded. Glad to hear I can do this without MCS.

[@davepoul8483]

Hello... very interesting BUT... Why do I have octopus telling me i need a MCS cert for my solar install... ???

[@roberthodgson-iz9lt]

Regardless of what octopus are saying or putting in there terms and conditions, they are not accepting installations without an MCs certificate as I has tried in the last week to register offering electrical certificates , building control approval etc, and asked what i could provide in place of mcs certificate and have just received an email back today (13/8/23) telling me that they do not accept and system at present without an mcs certificate and are at present just thinking of ways that this could go ahead without mcs and to register my name to be notified if this changes in the future . If any one knows how you can register for export without mcs I would be grateful to know how .

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

Such a good and needed move

[@martynayshford4318]

Regrettably Octopus may have indicated they do not require MCS certification, I can however state that they still in fact do. I quote "If you are unable to obtain an MCS certificate for your installation, we will not be able to offer you an export tariff at this time." So there is no substance to the press coverage.

[@efixx]

Substances is provided in the T&Cs from Octopus. - last updated 9th August - see clause 5.8 octopus.energy/policies/export-tariffs-terms-conditions/

[@jasoncannon1884]

Here’s a question when it comes to sell your property will the standard electrician sign off without MCs be suitable . Obviously you have the dno approval reason asking my MCs installer only signed off my batteries not the solar and now I’m going to re apply for my feed in tariff now I have this information .

[@mahon257]

my 20kwh (g.99) system was flexiorb certified. which is basically useless. this is great news.

[@LuminarySpeshal]

In practice they are still not allowing non MCS on SEG. I've been fighting with them for weeks to no avail. Its now in the T+C's (clause 5.8) that MCS isn't always required but they seem to be ignoring that

[@mikebarry229]

I had heard from others that unofficially this has been octopus's practice for some weeks now and this change has just formalised the arrangement, so I guess you were just unlucky.

[@LuminarySpeshal]

Its ongoing with them, they are still arguing various cases and I'm not getting anywhere with them. I am still persisting though!

[@subby28]

Doesn't appear to be in effect yet. I've tried to apply and they are still saying MCS is required at the moment, and non-mcs is in early trial stage with no timeframe to be available to everyone.

[@TrevorStubbins]

and it will cost you £250 (for what?)

[@semsainars]

Great news. Went to sign up but sign up form still asks for MCS number, has not been updated yet

[@alexacb63]

At least some installs now can be done without the utterly pointless MCS mandated export meter (it made sense with FiT, but for new installs doing SEG via smart meter it is just extra cost)

[@jonathanmmorris]

Agreed: pointless.

[@andy.underwater.videos]

Excellent move by octopus, As a qualified NICEIC electrician I can now fit a few installs, and not have to invest in MCS to go all out solar. I have had some customers with very poor solar and HP installs under the MCS scheme with no help from MCS to recover the situation. I'm quite capable to install in accordance to the 18 edition and manufacturers instructions. It really is no big deal. I'm sure there is a good market for the existing solar specialists for the complex large installations. I'm expecting a load of kick off about standards falling! Poor installers are always there and always will be. MCS removal from solar probably isn't going to make so much difference in my view. However less overhead cost and bureaucracy is far better!!

[@craigbutler6243]

I've just finished 5 months of work with a "solar company " Andy as a subcontractor. I, like you, I'm sure, pride myself on my work. It was the worst quality work I've ever seen. Not a single time served electrician in the back office. In fact, I was the only qualified sparx there at one point! Im niceic approved, have my bpec solar & battery certs, 2391, EV, 18th, 2360 1&2, 25 years' time served. How many more times do we have to prove ourselves... Don't remember having to pass my driving test more than once!? Leave it to the approved schemes to handle NICEIC, ECA etc....

[@DickWilliamson]

What will your home insurance make of this as most installations are sited in loft space? Will they still require an MCS accreditation?

[@Fullchargesparky]

If MCS was a government non profit group like it was then it would be worth something but it became for profit and therefore self-protecting. NICEIC, NAPIT and others (or ones who actually care) should be sorting quality of work anyway. PV should be like everything else, you notify, you insure it and you take the risk.

[@peterwilliams8283]

Question: For private installations how will Kit and Labour be dealt with from Zero VAT perspective? Have HMRC signed up on this.

[@GM-ii8gs]

As an installer I think we might all be getting a bit excited by this, yes Octopus is the best payer for the SEG at the moment, but what happens if that changes and the customer wants to move to another higher paying SEG provider that wants MCS, will the homeowner have a claim against the installer because been non MCS is limiting their options? What happens in Octopus changes their mind in the future and what about the customer's buildings insurance and mortgage company, will they not want MCS, this would need checking by the homeowners before an installation.

[@TheRonskiman]

Other energy companies don't require MCS, some accepted Flexi Orb, and according to Flexi Orb's website when I looked some time ago, they had Octopus as accepting it (at that time Octopus didn't), although I notice they've now been removed. British Gas,eon, Ovo, Scottish Power and SSE are all listed as accepting Flexi Orb certificates. Octopus have I think always been the market leader when it comes to paying for export, although that could change.

[@GM-ii8gs]

​@@TheRonskiman Yeah we're an MCS and Flexi-Orb registered installers, both pretty interchangeable, so without MCS you going to need to get Flexi-Orb, so no fundamental change then, but... Anyway according to some other posts here, turns out Octopus hasn't dropped that MCS requirement after all... Octopus hasn't always been the best payer, Social Energy was the best before them, and I've heard though the grape vine OVO is working on something better than Flux. Still doesn't get around the mortgage or insurance issues without MCS or Flexi-Orb.

[@TheRonskiman]

@@GM-ii8gs Its good that other players are working on better options than Flux. I had a FITS system installed in 2015, so never looked into payments until last year, and everyone seemed to say Octopus was the best payer, then they launched Flux just in time for my additional system. Can't say I've ever seen anything about solar in my insurance documents, never been asked if I have solar either.

[@terry5053]

This is the statement I just received from Octopus: “We haven't removed the need to see the MCS certificate, however sometimes there are other certificates such as Flexi-Orb which is similar but not the same as MCS - this is what this clause is referring to. We cannot proceed without a certificate number from MCS or Flexi-Orb or equivalent. The DNO letter is not a certificate and we cannot use this alone to process your application.” So you still need your PV system certified and having a competent person installing it doesn’t seem to be enough. If this correct?

[@efixx]

Interesting - Here's what the Octopus T&C's say on the website. 5.8 Where you are unable to provide MCS or equivalent certification under clause 5.5, you confirm that you are satisfied that the generation asset has been installed by a competent professional and meets all required industry standards and guidelines. Octopus accepts no liability for any loss, damage or injury resulting from the installation. octopus.energy/policies/export-tariffs-terms-conditions/

[@terry5053]

@@efixx I will refer to that and see what Octopus come back with. Thanks.

[@victorwhyte470]

I have spoken with octopus today and they offered to put my name down for a trial scheme no guarantee I will be accepted and it is only seg payments at 5.5p a kilowatt.

[@terry5053]

@@victorwhyte470 I did post the reply from octopus but it looks like it’s been removed. Essentially I was told the same as you.

[@craigchamberlain]

Yeah, when Octopus invited me as the first participant of the new "No MCS" trial process, I was simultaneously receiving replies from the main support team who kept on telling me I needed MCS. So it appears as though this new trial process isn't even well known within Octopus. It was July 7th when I got the initial phone call from the Octopus specialist and on July 27th I received the web link to the onboarding form. I was up and running on SEG by July 31st. Note that I already had my export MPAN from my DNO (SPEN) which I gave to Octopus right at the start. That probably speeded up the process a bit.

[@hoverbovver]

What is the current DNO rules on 7kW installs? I DIYed mine and did not apply to the DNO at the time. Partly as was not expecting anyone to pay for my export as I did not have MCS. Should I now apply to the DNO pretending I am about to install it? It has adequate quality components.

[@Birko64]

That's funny. When I tried to move my solar export to Octopus they told me I needed to supply MCS certificate. Even worse my storage was installed back in 2017 before MCS storage certification was introduced.

[@gmbs360]

Do you think that what will follow from this is that existing contractors who have traditionally benefitted from MCS certification are going to have to reduce their quotes for installs to successfully compete with a wider pool of installers?

[@VinoVeritas_]

Absolutely. They've been able to fleece customers for far too long.

[@dougle03]

Yes, and judging from the bellyaching on the various forums, the MCS club paid up members are furious with Octopus.. I get it, but we need more solar and less profiteering... The gravy train has derailed and there is no one going to put it back on the tracks...

[@gmbs360]

@@dougle03 Thanks for the reply - appreciated. Would you mind pointing me in the direction of said forums? Thanks in advance!

[@andyhodchild8]

​@VinoVeritas_ I feel that I have been charging to cover all the costs imposed on me by MCS. I am about to retire so won't effect me.

[@edc1569]

Last few years it’s been mad the margins they’ve been collecting.

[@MichaelBevan-s2n]

Octopus are denying this is true, i am waiting for a manger to call me back

[@TheRonskiman]

About time, hopefully it will stay this way, MCS is largely a complete waste of time and money, both for installer's and end users.

[@Eggnog3000]

What happens when you move supplier from octopus to one that does require an MCS cert! MCS also covers and approves the quality and standards of equipment such as panels and mounting gear... So with Octopus installs you can use cheap crap materials, fit it and run. Sounds like Octopus will end up regretting this. Might just be a PR stunt...Also as a NAPIT member you can't notify a PV install without MCS... Guess for octopus they won't need any Part P either! Yikes. House insurance will likely require an MCS cert if it's burnt down due to a shoddy PV install. Can't think many people would risk the cost of rebuilding their home after their insurance company wriggles out due to no MCS cert. Also how can you issue an insurance backed guarantee without an MCS cert? If I was paying upwards of 10k on a PV install I'd want to know that any issues were covered.

[@DarrenRavenscroft]

I checked my home insurance as soon as I read your comment and so long as it's within building regs and I let them know they exist, I'm covered. I suspect my policy isn't much different from a lot of peoples. I assume you're an MCS approved installer?

[@TheDamianDixon]

I was more than happy with my solar and battery installations. Hopefully the change will increase competition. Now FENSA needs to be scrapped or sorted as is not much help. Before the requirement to use a FENSA approved installer for fitting windows i did 4 myself. Every installation since has been a nightmare with no resolution other than doing the remedial work myself.

[@kevinpickett7249]

FLEXI-ORB is the better outfit ( very electrian friendly ) ref this video my thoughts exactly MCS was a monopoly and did not stop big contractors doing rough jobs

[@richardheather3077]

So I have called Octopus and been told that this change is NOT currently standard an is a trial for a small number of clients......I pushed them to offer a timescales for when the opening up of requirements for accessing their SEG tariffs was likely to happen, to which (even with the agent taking time to check) the response was less than convincing. There is no scheduled date currently for the removal of the insistence of an MCS Certificate ! Whilst I have expressed a desire to be part of the trial, there are no guarantee's I will be accepted ! It is absolutely the right direction of travel and I for one, hope that they and all other SEG providers remove the MCS requirements as soon as possible and allow the general public real choice :)

[@jonathanrose456]

NIC will still require customers to register separately if they are doing MCS work, so nothing changes.

[@alpachino468]

I bet all of the companies currently getting rich from providing MCS accreditation are throwing their arms up in the air at this news...

[@dougle03]

Ohh yes, the bellyaching has already started.... Lots of whalling and doom merchants at the gate.... It's hilarious...

[@Clark-Mills]

The monopolistic toll gate has been circumvented thanks to Octopus. Like the cascade of CCS -> NACS transition in the US started by Ford, I expect the other providers to rapidly follow suit. The world is a better place for it though there will *always* be issues; and not just with PV installs.

[@MartynDuerden]

This is a welcome move. That said there is no standards being held up by the NICEIC or NAPIT. A recent call to our certification body revealed they had no clue as to legal requirements for control panels or the legal product standards for them. You have electricians building panels for smart homes and renewable controls etc that are just plainly unlawful and have no legal certification at all.

[@eethon1]

its not gone yet, I tried with Octopus and they are saying the terms and condition change is for a trial that hasn't started yet. Refusing to apply for a export MPAN (Already have a G99 approved with the DNO)

[@dukemaximus1639]

While Europe went ahead with Mico Solar, mostly known as Balcony Solar we are again falling behind and arguing over quality where our quality is much lower than Germany despite have so many certifications. Similar to balcony solar a garden solar of 800w should be allowed as a plug in if correct conditions are meet. Well done to our process and policies.

[@Goodwin88881]

I got my MCS last year for solar but to be honest all it’s done is increase costs to customer (the mountain of paper work required and mcs fees)

[@JonAshman]

MCS only approve mounting kit and panels. This is a good move for the remnewable industry.

[@leed7806]

I just had solar and battery storage fitted with flexi orb certificated no mention of this ??

[@efixx]

Flex Orb seems to be getting mentioned quite a bit - thanks for flagging this up.

[@MrTwoZZT]

Has anyone tried to sign up to Octopus export without an MCS certificate, Ive just tried now and their website still prompts for the certificate number and wont let you get past the sign up page without it.

[@normanpouch]

I have been in the MCS scheme for years. I will think customers will wont a choice. Its just made it more difficult for the customer. I just paid £800 to MCS, but no more. The paperwork is a pain.

[@dopiaza2006]

Apparently not. They've issued a statement today saying they do still require it.

[@efixx]

It’s still in the terms - do you have a link? octopus.energy/policies/export-tariffs-terms-conditions/

[@jonathanmmorris]

Can you give a link to this statement?

[@dopiaza2006]

@@efixx Plenty of people receiving emails stating that MCS is still a requirement. Maybe just some confusion internally but people are still getting refused. 'Thanks for your interest. We're in the very earliest stages of trialling a solution for solar systems with no MCS certificate. You can't sign up just yet, but we'll get in touch when you can.'

[@stevemorris6576]

Ive been on to octopus and so has a friend we have both been told this is not true..... whats going on... their website shows that they need mcs... is this a wind up

[@rogerthomas7040]

MCS is a complete mess, but at the moment what alternative is in place to prove/validate the rather key 'Competent person' requirement? As a simple example - house insurance is most likely to expect MCS based installation if there are future claims caused by the installation.

[@Cass1088]

Somewhere in Cambridge, Jordan is crying

[@LeighWinspear]

Leave Katie Price out of this mess, she has enough problems..................;)

[@Arthur4all]

register on your website to see even the price? Really?

[@StuartJ]

If you can make use of the electricity, your better off storing it and using it. And when the sun doesn't shine, charge the batteries overnight.

[@craigchamberlain]

I agree but in our case, even with 15kWh of batteries and an EV, our 6.8kWp solar array produces more energy than we can use or store during the day. So it's nice to be able to export that excess and even at 4.1p/kWh it goes some way to offset the ridiculous standing charge amount each day! It'll be a different story as we get into the autumn and winter of course, but then I can use the batteries to charge in off-peak times and consume that charge in peak times. Having battery storage is definitely a game changer - so much so that I installed the battery storage BEFORE the PV panels.

[@Solspark132]

Upon further enquiry this appears to be not quite as straightforward as initially thought. Octopus now state they have not actually implemented this, but are trialling it. They are requesting £250 upfront payment before they will consider allowing you onto their export tariffs without an MCS cert.

[@grannye7638]

We had solar panels installed around 8 yrs ago. The firm of course went into liquidation and we have no cover. I also had to install a cage around the panels to prevent birds nesting which cost £1,000. I have no come back as far as maintenance is concerned although Enphase reckon they are still my providers. No answer to my email to them has proved this not to be the case. Very disgruntled.

[@alanclark2584]

octopus want £250 just to join the trial.

[@AllElectricLiving]

As a ex MCS installer I must say the MCS does nothing for the standard of installations or for customers , if the contractor has relevant training and competence ( maybe should be listed on something like gold card (ECS) ) along with other types of qualifications that the contractor may want to carry out them types of installations . ECS should be a mandatory I’m more worried about the people carrying out installations there not competent in ,

[@andy.underwater.videos]

Too many systems, if one is a qualified electrician and registered, that should be it. No extra add ones, otherwise it just a replacement for mcs.

[@kevinpickett7249]

I would say IT should be Reg sparkies though as DIY will become a problem

[@jonathanmmorris]

Opinion: there's a lot of overconfidence, by a very limited number of installers, in their ability to certify under part A and part B. As far as I can tell, that confidence was generated by a belief that MCS allowed them to be Competent Persons for those first parts of the Building Regulations. In general, installs aren't a serious issue, but that's not always the case. With the Building Safety Act now in force, it's hard to see the benefit of the scheme (for solar).

[@dama054]

If you don't need MCS how do you go about getting G98 G99 approval from the DNO

[@nickhall5279]

The two aren’t related. Anyone can get G98 approval from the DNO.

[@haldo691]

Its a form you fill in on the dno website

[@dama054]

@@haldo691 thanks for the reply will take a look

[@jonathanmmorris]

Very simple. Your electrician will be able to do that.

[@nickhall5279]

@@jonathanmmorris homeowner can do it if they want (and sufficiently confident/competent), it doesn’t need to be anyone with any sort of qualification. I did my own. You do need G98 certificates for the main components and a circuit diagram.

[@bobatlcpmbdx]

Hey STOP Don't hold your breath on this. I just tried to apply to Octopus for Outgoing Tarif with a certificate from my installer who is Fully Qualified Electrician He has done the MCS Course but has not paid for the certification because he has more than enough other work and would only do a few Solar jobs each year. They refused my application and told me to apply to go on a list for trialing this "Not MCS Certified" scheme. I await their call. It may be of interest to you that in the application process for the trial it mentioned that there will be a £250 fee for non MCS applications. What is going on???

[@joe90d2]

MCS is jobs for the boys. Both in electrical systems and heat pumps industry.

[@solarrover9575]

I don’t think any electricity supplier asks for proof the install is MCS accredited for SEG anyway do they? This is well overdue and I hope it’s the beginning of the end of MCS which is a corrupt old boys club.

[@VinoVeritas_]

Until Octopus Energy's change in Ts&Cs, it insisted on MCS certification in order to make SEG payments. Some of the other electricity suppliers would accept FlexiORB certification as well as MCS certification, but none would make SEG payments without either.

[@haldo691]

Octopus wouldn't pay me untill they had the mcs cert number and dno authorisation i had to pay someone £345 for the mcs cert 😂 the mcs scheme is a joke

[@Theoverthinker81]

Many of the uk cert companies seem to have been inspired by business models from Sicily, Italy.

[@edwardcooper3244]

I think it was also a case of Octopus being out on a limb, not accepting other certified registrations recognised by competitors. Not forgetting that the "old" MCS government quango, conveniently for them, became a Charitable Foundation. All those installers' obligatory registration fees, running into millions, swallowed up into a government charity with a 'foreign' lead trustee! It was becoming an embarrassment to Octopus!