I Spotted My Sisters Husband With Another Woman And Told her r/Relationships

[@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64]

“sick of pretending to love me” THEN BREAK UP WITH HIM!!! YOU COULD’VE JUST MOVED ON AND _NOT_ CHEAT WITH THE DUDE’S “BROTHER”!!!

[@VesnaVK]

It's OK. The story is fake.

[@guywhowatchesvideos-z2e]

Idk, sometimes reality can be stranger than fiction. Humans are animals first, meaning we act irrationally based off our emotions. 90% of murders happen among people who already know each other (especially for families) making other betrayals equally as likely among close family members. Rick and Morty was right; only a special, more powerful intelligence can be truly terrified of happiness.

[@RoseKoneko]

Right? That’s some rage inducing words right there.

[@pickle4422]

@@guywhowatchesvideos-z2eNo. We’re capable of intelligent thought, she could’ve broken up with him. She’s just a bad person. Stop trying to justify her actions by using emotion.

[@WhitneyDahlin]

​@@VesnaVK it doesn't matter if this specific story is real or not. The point is it does happen in real life. It's about having the moral and ethical conversation around this scenario. But I do agree that reddit should institute like a checkmark for stories where the OP has shown proof to the mod it's real.

[@jimdob6528]

Repenting for your sins does not automatically mean the victim forgives them… how is that so difficult for people to grasp?

[@soulanstreets222]

forgiveness doesn't mean everything goes back to how it was before either.

[@francinetitherington4060]

Yes, actions have consequences. The OP could and should forgive him for himself to lift some of the weight from him, the OP. However, forgiveness does not equate forgetting the offense and not wanting the brother in his life. That doesn't need to change.

[@sacrilegedoculus]

that's the behavior of a typical delusional/religious person

[@EluneAnzu]

Story 2: "I won't do it again" has to be the most hilarious thing to say to someone whose partner you cheated with, dude you shouldn't have done it in the first place, the word "again" doesn't even need to be there.

[@enjolireyes643]

Story 2- OPs brother chopped, burned, disengrated, buried and pissed on the relationship with his brother for a girl, so he cannot expect for OP to just put a band-aid on it and gain back that relationship. Like OP said, unforgivable.He can accept you are living your life peacefully, allow him to do the same and leave him to live in peace.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

People like him have no problem destroying a relationship and then thinking they have a chance at redemption for some reason

[@johnbradbury8610]

Op deserves a smack for asking AITA for not forgiving my brother? Have some self-respect. His parents are AHs. Stevie Wonder could see they have a golden child and it isn't him. It sucks but OP should cut contact with all of them. He is lucky he didn't marry his 304 SIL. Best of luck OP, you will be fine.

[@johnbradbury8610]

but he said he wouldn't do it again after marring her and knocking her up.

[@paulastiles5507]

@@mandalorianhunter1 Oh, but didn't you know? He got saaaaaaved. That's the Evangelical version of "But faaaaamily."

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@paulastiles5507 yep because "JESUS"

[@BacklitRabbit]

There's a quote I think fits the brother in the second story perfectly: It doesn't matter if heaven is on his side or not. He still has to live on earth.

[@claireskies2428]

One thing 25 years of Christianity taught me is that “heaven” is always of the side of the abuser.

[@amberaseltine3012]

Had family problem one menber did something very very bad(dont want to give info) that person used that same thing. He was forgiven by God. I wish I was there. I would of told them "congtatest he can go to haven when he dies, doesnt mean he did anything deserve forgiveness here on earth." I was raised with Christians, not a dummy when it comes to thoes tricks.

[@marshawargo7238]

The parents attitude is Exactly why so many people hate or just don't want to join a religion, they Pick & Choose the scripture that absolves their actions! Parents said God forgave him. Show me your Power of Attorney that gives you the right to speak for God! His Ten Commandments have TWO rules against what the brother & SIL did! Also, I'm Sure that if dad's brother / or mom's sister came to start an affair with the respective parent, neither one of them would find forgiveness for her sister or his brother or even the ex partner! Also, if she didn't want to "keep on pretending to love OP" she could have broken up with him! I'm sure that would have broken the brothers up But it would be fixable in time. I wonder how big bro's congregation would be if this accidentally got out?

[@charityquill4965]

​@@marshawargo7238I'm a Christian here and Imo I don't think he's "forgiven". He feels bad about his actions and went to God. Congratulations, you've done step one, the bare minimum! If he really wants to be apologetic for his actions, he needs to address how he betrayed OP and apologize for all the damage that was done. Unfortunately he's married so that will be a constant reminder for OP so they are right to want their own space and not want to see the brother, and the brother needs to make peace with that and strive to improve themselves.

[@Russman67]

Story 1: She fought the world to be with him. Including her dad. I feel for the dad actually. He saw that the guy was bad news but you can't tell someone anything if they refuse to hear it. And sister likely isolated herself (with James' help) so she wouldn't hear it.

[@BruinPhD2009]

True. Sadly, sometimes people have to be allowed to make their own mistakes. Sometimes, trying to convince a person they're making a mistake further causes them to double down. Painful thing to witness, for sure.

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

Yeah. You're right. It's a harsh lesson, but I'm so glad she learned it and left that creep. And although I wouldn't have blamed OP and her parents for serving her a bowl of "I Told You So", I'm so happy they helped her escape that sham of a marriage. ❤

[@madambutterfly1997]

I can’t tell which one is more painful. the unforgivable: I’ll hate you for the rest of my life or the unforgivable: I’m just indifferent towards you and you’re worth nothing to me.

[@CloverField83]

The second one. Hate takes effort.

[@gmun2248]

I'm not sure where I've heard this quote before, but it rings true for me: "The opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference." Hate is a powerful emotion. You do have to still care, in some way, to genuinely feel hate. Indifference is truly not giving a fxck.

[@Michael.CrazedAlaska]

The indifference, when you hate someone, it only hurts yourself because you are constantly still thinking of them… if you’re indifferent it means that the wronging party will live in the cycle of “I can’t believe they just don’t care about me at all anymore” … well assuming the wronging party had any morals.

[@MrChanman50]

@@gmun2248 Elie Wiesel. He was a holocaust survivor and wrote the book, Night, based off his own experiences during his time in the Aushwitz concentration camp.

[@veronicaalvarez1571]

The second, it burns people to know that they no longer matter and that there is nothing they can do. It's going to hurt OP's brother that OP is going to continue with his life and be happy and not him being a part of it, because for OP he is a total stranger.

[@heatherdickau5335]

Story 2 How ironic the parents forgive the cheating brother but can't forgive the OP. The mother has to work on it. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[@Fullbloomed]

Story 2: in so many of these cheating stories…like, why not just break up if you no longer want to be with your partner?!?

[@sailormoon02]

She moved from one brothers place directly into another’s. She’s most likely a user.

[@x1tekja]

She's a cake eater and was having it for so long I bet you it was the brother who pushed her to make a decision

[@janedoe885]

Story 2, tbh part of what gets me is not just that the brother cheated with OP's serious GF. He cheated with a woman who told his brother to his face that she left because she was tired of pretending to love him. A woman who had no remorse or shame about the person being betrayed and hurt in the situation, who wasn't even indifferent to his brother but actively trying to hurt him more during that betrayal. That is the person OP's brother chose to settle down with and make a family with for years afterward. And for all his supposed repentance he still doesn't seem to recognize that the reason what he did was wrong isn't because a higher power said so, but because he hurt his brother who loved and trusted him. The bible even has god specifically talk about doing good for its own sake, multiple times. If he's preaching he certainly isn't doing a good job of it. He hasn't done anything to mend the harm he caused to the person he harmed. He's still putting his own desires and comfort first, and he is not OWED anything here.

[@cpaul9269]

S3 - This is why I had "No children under 18, please - adults only," for my wedding. 8 months notice. Figure it out.

[@jennsyk7520]

I wish we had an update. The entitlement is crazy with this story!

[@stuckinmopro8533]

I hope that OP’s brother realizes that cheaters will always cheat. It may not be this month, this year or 10 years from now but brother should always wonder when he sees Cara hide her phone, have to “work late” or visit “friends “ for hours whether she’s cheating.

[@jake8748]

People who knowingly be the affair partner are no better really. One of them is more than likely going too. Man I hope OP hears about it when it happens and just laugh at them for it and be like what did you expect from 2 morally corrupt people.

[@AndyyWithAY]

Even if the brother did you a favor by letting you know your GF wasn't loyal, he still betrayed you. I don't think I could ever forgive this. And then it's been three whole years and they've had at least one child. If he was so sorry why did it take so long to apologize. He apologized when they got caught, but that doesn't count. He then married and impregnated the AP. The parents ARE villains here too. I hate when people use religion to bully victims into forgiving the unforgiveable. And, I sure as heck wouldn't be going to a church with a pastor who had an affair with his brother's GF

[@squirrel670]

Because he's preaching he's redeemed himself? Like what the heck. That has nothing to do with op and it shouldn't.

[@pmHidden]

The ironic part about the behavior of families like this is that they act like their forgiveness is some righteous act. In reality, it's not their place to forgive anybody because they weren't the victims, and they're acting purely self-serving because they want a happy family for themselves and to show off to others.

[@Merryfrances]

Story 2: OP still needs to cut off the parents and move on.

[@Ame865]

That’s a bit much

[@mandalorianhunter1]

​@@Ame865no it isn't, his parents put their faith before their child and put their other child who caused problems before him

[@packergeek10]

@@Ame865 No it isn't. The parents will keep pushing for this.

[@Ame865]

@@mandalorianhunter1 that’s common practice for religious people I can’t say I blame them. They didn’t try to force him to do anything they had a conversation and respected OPs final decision. I don’t think they put anyone before anything here that implies they care about ops brother more than op and I didn’t get that vibe at all. It’s easy to say cut people off over little things like this when you’re not the one being affected by it

[@Ame865]

@@packergeek10 that’s pure speculation. They clearly stated that they’d respect op’s decision

[@maurer3d]

Story 3: NTA, why would they need the bridal suite? That is just insane. The baby can sleep in its stroller in the main venue, and as for feeding and changing SIL can find a private place to breastfeed (or use a bottle), and changing can be done in the bathroom.

[@errantwinds-up8uu]

Yeah I was pretty confused about this too....

[@msam2357]

Yes, I believe that if children are going to be part of society, and thus allowed at this wedding, they should be fully integrated. OP3 should definitely offer the new mother have her child sleep in its stroller in the main venue. Mom can feed the child anywhere she wants, and if that means breastfeeding the child at the bar, she just needs to make sure that her dress can accommodate it. And then if she doesn’t like how accepted she is, she can go to the Airbnb around the corner. New-parents choice! And just in case somebody says they’re worried about the baby upstaging the bride.… All the bride needs to say is that she is so accepting that she’s happy to include the baby and the mother and the family, and everybody should just start dancing again. It’s important for the baby to learn how to sleep through noises. Don’t park the stroller in front of the speaker, but there should be a quieter corner somewhere.

[@stirrednotshaken4823]

Don’t want anything in the room the bride is going to be getting ready in that could be a potential threat. Mishaps happen and so does sabotage. Don’t think the SIL or baby will be carrying a glass of red wine, but babies do poop and puke. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@TiBunCosplay]

Yeah, I agree. When I got married my nephew was only three months old. BIL's wife handled things just fine without going into my bridal suite. (BIL was a groomsman and their 3 year old daughter was the flower girl so he was very busy that day and couldn't always take over baby duty)

[@annem7806]

1) Sis didn't distance herself. Likely the cheater started isolating her from her family. 2) no forgiveness available in my book for a family member to do this. They deserve each other. They will end up cheating on each other & deserve it. Give it time. Not a family worth saving. 3) your wedding, your costs. They can spring for their own hotel room. 🖕 the MIL. Make sure your room has no other access. Tell the front desk.

[@thefallennero5265]

Story 2: Brother must be struggling with preaching if he has to keep trying get OP to forgive him for sleeping with and marrying his girlfriend. It'll be real funny when the story of how the brother and wife first got together is made known to others in their community.

[@BruinPhD2009]

Do NOT tempt Reddit. 😂

[@brianaschmidt910]

Sadly, depending on the parish, they might comfort the brother and become even more flying monkeys while outright ostracizing the "jezebel"

[@catsncrows]

Yes, I don't have a problem with religion but dislike many types like hate religion and in this case convinient religion

[@MasterBuilderDragon]

I don’t know a single church that would let an adulterer preach, especially if he married the AP. Sounds like OP needs to make some phone calls.

[@ellorasg4525]

Story 2: I bet they will cheat on their so again. OP dodged a massive nuclear bomb.

[@Germania72]

Second story: I've never had that experience, but I believe it hurts more when the AP is your own sibling. Yes, his gf would've probably cheated with someone else, but this is more traumatic because it's a boundary you don't cross. If you can't trust in your own family, you really feel alone in the world. Plus, the callousness of those two...

[@themurderbotfeed7688]

It hurts more cuz he was betrayed by 2 ppl, not just one. It sucks

[@jake8748]

A friend being an AP is really bad because you think you can trust both. A family member who for most people is all they can truly rely and trust in would be unimaginably bad. I mean im 8 years on and I haven't got any friends anymore as I dont know if I can trust anyone and I also don't want to risk being hurt again (plus some knew what was going on and never told me). It just proved to me all over again that the only people I can trust in my life was my family. Now If it was one of my family instead, that means I wouldn't even have that anymore. 😢. The closest thing I have to friends is work colleagues, of which a grand total of 1 I have any communication outside of work with.

[@LilFeralGangrel]

story 2: i find it curious how OP's parents keeps talking about forgiveness, they are not in a position to forgive OP's brother because he didn't wrong them, they wronged OP. What they did is condone his behaviour and they're asking OP to condone it as well. No genuine apology has been made and OP has already set the conditions, there will be no forgiveness, there is no restitution for how he was victimized. Sometimes the only apology you can give is your absence. OP's brother needs to get with the program because he has no other options.

[@dm9078]

That 13 year age gap was the first red flag. Dad is a good man!

[@user-blob]

Yep 🤮

[@335chr]

Thats because you believe women are incapable of making their own decisions

[@tabathaalshalhoub1653]

Right?! They got married when she was 20, he was 33. So they had been dating … how long? When she was 18 and he was 31?! 🤮🤮

[@goatkiller666]

Yeah, no doubt. And to accuse the 17yr old of being jealous… of someone twice her age… ick.

[@Russman67]

Story 2: Cara and the brother would be dead to me. The dead don't come back. Him being "saved" now doesn't bring him back and I seriously doubt this issue is part of his testimony.

[@ajwinberg]

Story 2: It always boggles my mind, when parents take the side of the child who wronged the other. It is so weird that the child who was wrong is treated like they are then wrong ones. It is so weird. I have a feeling that the parents in this situation want access to their grandchildren, so they don't want to say or ruin anything that might change that.

[@SkyEcho751]

Story 2: I remember hearing this story somewhere else. The brother being a pastor disgusts me, as he never truly made things right. He stole his brother's girlfriend and MARRIED her, the church needs to dump him ASAP. Dude cheated in the past and is still in the relationship born of sin, and the kind of sin you can't make right unless you completely reject it. He's still a cheater and so is Cara. Maintaining the relationship shows OP's brother doesn't recognize what he did was wrong, so I highly doubt that he was actually saved. He'll lead people astray, claiming that any behavior can be accepted. Recognizing behavior is wrong is step 1, the next step is to stop that behavior.

[@MrJpaynebb]

Having a preacher who has some sins in their past can give them a better perspective when dealing with others who are going through hard times whether self inflicted or as the victim. What I want is that preacher to truly have repented though and to show others that even with repentance that doesn't mean the person you hurt or wronged will forgive you or that with forgiveness that means they want you back in their life.

[@MasterBuilderDragon]

Honestly, I don’t think the church knows he did this. I don’t know a single church that would let an adulterer preach, especially if they married the AP.

[@SkyEcho751]

@@MrJpaynebb Having sins in your _Past_ shouldn't always limit you(there are exceptions, but those are the absolute extremes). The problem is that his sins are _not_ in the past. Do you remember the 'rich man' who approached Jesus. He said he kept all the commandments, but Jesus pointed out that he hadn't kept one, that being "Thou shall have no other gods before Me". The rich man at that point had put wealth over his relationship with God. The man was sad because he coveted the wealth. The Brother has not only committed adultery, but also _still_ covets his brother's(Op's) girlfriend. He is still with her. So to me, he shouldn't be a preacher.

[@WolfyFancyLads]

Story 2: This is what always pisses me off. Everyone is like "Forgive and forget! They're taking up space in your head! Move on!", but no! Resent is a perfectly valid emotion. You're allowed to hate someone, you're allowed to wish they were dead, you're allowed to want to beat them so badly that they're comatose for a decade. I hate that we live in a world where people act like you're not allowed to feel negative emotions. The brother is a backstabbing prick for carrying on for years, the ex is a slag for not only cheating but that cold "I pretended I loved you" part, and the parents seriously need their heads checking. OP is allowed to feel hate. They're allowed to never forgive. Negative emotions are just as valid as positive ones. You won't regret hating bad people. Let the hate flow through you, OP!

[@tatkkyo9911]

Resentment is OK, but you always need to make sure you aren't hurting yourself on it. Sounds like op is in the clear.

[@damien678]

Bros not even, at minimum, paying for OP's therapy. Why should OP ever forgive?

[@angelaa7388]

As a fellow Sith, I appreciate you. Forgiveness is overrated. OP has identified an untrustworthy person and is treating him accordingly.

[@KadeStringer2.0]

Resentment isn’t a good thing and holding on to hate makes you weak

[@joshuarichards8065]

​@@KadeStringer2.0but this resentment is keeping something bad out of OP's life without encompassing it.

[@angelaa7388]

Story 2- OP needs to reframe the situation from "not forgiving his brother" to identifying an untrustworthy person and treating them accordingly.

[@CreepyBlueAnimals84]

Why do people always think that "Repentance" means nothing more than an "I'm sorry" and a prayer. Real Repentance should be serving serious prison time for killing, raping or molesting another person. Paying EVERY CENT BACK that you have stolen from others. How about NOT marrying and fornicating with your brother's GF? Maybe it's just me, but Repentance should mean serious repercussions for the serious crimes you have committed against others. Cheating may not be as serious as the other crimes mentioned but it's still wrong. Especially when you do it to your own blood. P.S. Ah, I haven't heard it referred to as "the old in n' out" since A Clockwork Orange!!

[@Bonaduece]

Since he's in Cali now, I think he meant In-N-Out Burger. But the other thing would also be a good way to distract him from thinking about that whole mess.

[@damien678]

Bro really expects to be forgiven without, AT MINIMUM, paying for OP's therapy that he's the direct cause of.

[@CreepyBlueAnimals84]

@@Bonaduece OH crap!! 😂

[@Nathan_Bookwurm]

In my opinion this repenting system is the biggest flaw of Christianity. No matter if you've done horrible things to people, you can just repent and God has forgiven you... It's just an easy road to avoid taking responsibility to the situation and avoids you from becoming the best version of yourself. It's egoistic to say sorry for doing wrong to a God that had nothing to do with the situation instead of to the person you've wronged.

[@GAMEPRO24X]

Adultery use to be illegal and people legit faced jail time for it but a certain fanatic group decriminalized it which drove the adultery statistics through the roof. wounder who that was. tired of hearing about cheating all the time. gaurantee if your ass couldove been tossed into a cell for it. people would start acting right.

[@jeaniebee3657]

in and out is a burger place incase mark was as confused as he sounded when he read that line lol

[@BruinPhD2009]

Can you imagine one of these stories including Five Guys? 😳😅

[@gmun2248]

​@BruinPhD2009 We have 5 Guys in the UK now. In & Out doesn't have that kind of recognition.

[@jeaniebee3657]

@@BruinPhD2009 lol

[@Pavium]

@@BruinPhD2009 It's happened before. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3nFe42ieLinqaM

[@Arcalargo]

​@@BruinPhD2009 I'm sure there have been some stories with 5 Guys. Just not the burger joint...

[@whitneylivingston5706]

Story 2) parents don’t get to forgive the brother, they weren’t wronged. They get to choose sides. They chose the brother. OP is the one who gets the opportunity to forgive his brother. What OP needs to realize is the forgiving his brother doesn’t mean he has to let his brother back into his life, it doesn’t mean he has to pretend it never happened. By forgiving his brother it means he is no longer giving his brother the power to hurt him through past actions (it doesn’t mean you have to be a doormat and give him new opportunities to hurt him in the future).

[@RealAnimeBadGuy]

Snakes are great, OPs brother is no snake.

[@crowdemon_archives]

Snakes are cute and tends to leave you alone, unlike the brother in S2

[@carlrood4457]

A line I love from the movie, Bite the Bullet. "If it ain't by a friend, it ain't a betrayal." Literally, only people you trust can betray you. How can someone expect to earn that kind of trust back? They can say all the Hail Marys they want, it does nothing for the person they betrayed. The best they should hope for is apathy.

[@NopeScope14]

S2: I have a story that's probably not similar, but too good not to share. Long story short- the preacher of our local church, was preaching about cheating and marriage vows, embarrassing his son-in-law who went behind his wife, who had cancer by the way- to have an affair with my coworker. The ex-wife eventually got custody of all three kids, divorced his now jobless ass, and survived cancer like a damned boss 🎊 As for my coworker? Quit on the spot yrs later so she didn't have to take a drug test. We didn't hire her back.

[@maurer3d]

Story 1 (before update): NTA, you did exactly what you should have done. Your sister is in shock, and will eventually apologize (assuming she isn't crazy. It is very common to attack the messenger when given news like that, as they are the only person there to blame. This is why you don't date someone a decade older than you in your early 20's, they tend to be cheaters who will constantly hop to a new younger model after only a few years at most. I am also willing to bet that your sister''s relationship with him began as an affair, so what did she expect?

[@chimchimindiandragon]

It's very probable that it wasn't an affair for the sister as she introduced him to her family and opposed everyone to be with him...affair partners are not that bold when it comes to family...it's a clear case of grooming if she married at 20 they would have started when she was 18/19...and they seem to be a very normal tightnet middle-class family so they wouldn't have much experience in manipulation or maturity to recognise red flags....most teenagers from normal families don't have much experience other than school level bitching and mean girl/boy politics...only kids that grow up in harsh environments develop that kind of street smarts ..so they are very easily influenced by worldly maturity...but it's still grooming...

[@wonhur885]

A very fascinating video, this brings back painful memories which i have been enduring. My relationship of 5 years ended 3 months ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.

[@MalcolmM.Stanton-hy4jb]

its difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation, my relationship of 12 years ended, but i couldn't just let her go i did all i could to get her back, i had to seek the help of a spiritual counsellor who helped me bring her back

[@wonhur885]

Amazing, how did you get a spiritual counsellor, and how do I reach her?

[@MalcolmM.Stanton-hy4jb]

Her name is Shelly renee white, and she is a great spiritual counsellor who can bring back your ex.

[@wonhur885]

Thank you for this valuable information, i just looked her up now online. impressive.

[@kitkatandanongacha6339]

BOTS

[@kerribottriell-baxter7345]

3rd story: It just feels like the SIL is deliberately trying to make it all about her. She was the SIL/DIL first and is now not happy that another is coming into the space.

[@AndyyWithAY]

The ages in story 1! A 25 yr old blaming a 17 YO child for her creepy 38 YO husband cheating. I'm so disgusted by James and the sister I'm glad the sister apologized. This age gap is creepy at 25, even worse at 20. A 33YO grown man shouldn't have anything in common with a college sophomore.

[@ShadowDevotion]

Well, the Sister is a Victim to this Predator too. She was barely an Adult, and he creeped on her. James will now look for someone barely legal, someone he can control and manipulate.

[@ianmoritzplatapino3684]

When you're such a doormat like op sister's you will blame everything and everyone before putting the blame on the cheating partner

[@shadowkissed2370]

@@ianmoritzplatapino3684 when you are a person who was groomed like op's sister...

[@whitneybennett4857]

My heart broke for OP and I felt angry for her at the beginning of this. Imagine doing your best to look out for one of the most important people in your life only for them to lash out and throw accusations at YOU instead of the perpetrator. I know it was in the heat of the moment and the sister was in shock and a lot of pain, but it was still crappy for her to do that. Also: I'm just waiting for some dope to come out of the woodwork here in the comments and gripe about how it isn't messed up for a 33-year-old to be dating a 20-year-old, wide age gaps don't matter once you hit your 20's, blah blah blah.

[@MrJpaynebb]

NTA but the vast majority of people groomed or not don't want to believe their spouse is cheating on them. Doesn't mean the sister wasn't wrong for her reaction but OP was right to let it go quickly given it confirmed sister's suspicions.

[@Mama_Bear_of_3]

At only 17 OP is an amazing sister who handled the entire situation with the empathy and maturity that a lot of adults lack. I would be hurt and furious if my sister knew my husband was cheating and she didn't tell me. I get it, OPs sister was hurt, upset, and angry, and without thinking she lashed out at the wrong person. People typically misquote and misunderstand when they say blood is thicker than water. The complete phrase is, "Blood of the covenant, it is thicker than the water of the womb." The saying emphasizes the significance of bonds created through blood, shared experiences, commitments, and mutual agreements over those based solely on familial ties. OP might have really liked her BIL, but the tie between her and her sister was much stronger than the tie from a piece of paper that made BIL family.

[@TsukiKageTora]

If I ever take video evidence or get evidence of someone cheating on a family member or a friend, and they accuse me of being “jealous” and “wanting to ruin their relationship” My response would be: “Alright, be delusional, don’t come crawling to me when you find out on your own.”

[@TraceyBoyland]

She knew. She's mad others know

[@maurer3d]

Story 2 (before update): NTA, only a monster has an affair with someone in their family's SO. And Cara is a giant AH for cheating....period. You are under no obligation to be in contact with monsters. Story 2 (update): Holy Hell (literally), he has the nerve to be a preacher after what he did? I certainly hope his congregation finds out who this tool truly is, and kick him out of the position.

[@colinmorrison2446]

In-n-Out is a California based burger chain.

[@Hazey4420]

Came into the comments to find this comment 😂

[@colinmorrison2446]

@Hazey4420 Glad I was able to help. 🤣 To be fair they are creaping up the West Coast lately, but they started in CA. Even have a bit in The Big Lebowski.

[@carlrood4457]

Bachelor party. My brother was my best man, but he and his wife weren't comfortable with his being involved with the standard bachelor party festivities. No problem. My buddies planned and threw the party. My brothers also took me for a round of golf as their part. I get a new dad not wanting to leave the country. Longer distances in the same country still eliminate things like passports and customs. However, he should opt out and get some of the others to handle it

[@Nicholem718-1]

Story 2: I’d have probably laughed really hard, for an inordinate amount of time, and say,” That’s so funny! Thanks, I needed that.” If they insisted that they were serious, I’d still laugh, and just say, “no.” No explanation, no excuses.

[@errantwinds-up8uu]

Story 2: Bro says "I wouldn't do it again." Well obviously not since you already got the girl. Look, I'm big on forgiveness, but you can't MAKE anyone forgive another person, it's entirely a personal choice that either happens or doesn't. (Also I believe at the end there OP was saying he got some burgers from the American fast food place In and Out.)

[@CareyBilley]

S2 I'm guessing this isn't the first time OP's parents have shown favoritism to the younger brother, he isn't your brother anymore because he's a backstabbing snake with his cheater wife. Isn't it funny how fast the parents turned the other cheek, familial betrayal don't work that way. The one person that was supposed to have your back chose to plant a knife there instead.

[@havokdr3d535]

Op needs to drop his parents the sad thing is there's no way the parents will pick him because the brother already gave them grandkids

[@TsukiKageTora]

I don’t understand the logic of people. Why be with someone who is willing to cheat or be willing to be the affair partner, with full knowledge it is an affair? These type of people don’t change, they will continue to cheat, and/or, worse, gaslight and blame you for “cheating” when they are just projecting their own cheating

[@lokisprincess13]

Mark: confessing he doesn’t know what In-n-Out is Me: Uh oh.

[@mbyerly9680]

I only know it from the Internet. It's not a chain all over the US like McDonalds.

[@JoJoGranum]

Story 2: I’d tell parents, “You can forgive him, and God can. But I can’t. Don’t ever tell me to forgive him or you’ll lose me .”

[@vegaskullkid4503]

Story 2: Okay I’m gonna keep it a stack, fuck the brother and ex. I am a Christian and while forgiveness is something that’s taught and gives healing, that doesn’t mean you let people like the brother back into your life especially after doing something so cowardly as sleeping and being in a relationship with his brother’s girlfriend. The parents need to understand that it’s OP’s choice to forgive or not and frankly I don’t blame OP and I’d cut any of my brother’s off if they did this to me. Now as for the brother, dude you may have repented and bared your sins to God which I commend but it doesn’t mean you get to dictate how any kind of relationship between OP and yourself goes. You still betrayed him and it’s up to him whether or not he forgives not you. You will have to bear this on your conscience and yes the guilt can suck however this is a consequence of your own actions. Do not try to force anything with your brother and don’t expect anything from him. If he wants to form a relationship then he will but if he doesn’t then that’s that. Live with what you did, accept that it’s your fault and don’t try to appease your own guilt by forcing the victim to forgive you ever again.

[@MasterBuilderDragon]

You hit the nail on the head, fellow Christian. God bless you.

[@RG-vs8qz]

Well said!

[@antoniaweber8074]

personaly I thing there are diffrent forms of forgiving but most pepeole seem to think that forgive and forget is the only type.

[@MasterBuilderDragon]

@@antoniaweber8074 that’s correct. You can forgive someone but that doesn’t require letting them back into your life. People tend to misunderstand forgiveness nowadays.

[@crowdemon_archives]

​@@MasterBuilderDragonsame for repentance too.

[@Amelia073]

A 33yo going after a 20yo is predatory. Not surprising that he’d also be a cheater.

[@Tammohawk1]

Mark, In-Out is a hamburger chain, mainly on the west coast of the US and they rock. They have a small menu, but it's awesome. The grandparents of the current owner had a school built just for her. In the mountains to the east of me.

[@Khanjikai]

STORY 2: As a Christian and a minister, repentance does NOT equal atonement. Furthermore, forgiveness does not equal reconciliation. Even if OP comes to the point he can forgive his brother and the ex/now-SIL, that doesn't mean he needs to be close to them or in relationship.

[@anotherone1532]

I know I’m an ahole for thinking this, but I would be curious to see what would happen if the church “found out” how the brother got together with the wife…

[@kristelneedtoknow3207]

Story 2 when Cara cheats on him and he will find out after she leaves him and file's for divorce and full custody of the kid's and she's already living with the new guy. He won't even see it coming. I bet at that point he will expect op to comfort him when he gets a full taste of his own medicine

[@boneymeroney2674]

In and Out Burger. Oh my gawd The bestest burgers ever. It's a fast food place When one opens up in a city/state (US) it's a massive huge deal. Drive through lines for miles and standing lines to place orders at the counter...also for miles and hours. Even when the restaurant has been established and opened for years, there's always a line at the drive-thru at zero dark thirty in the morning. 😂

[@WyntheRogue]

Can confirm, grew up in LA County and every now and then would grab In n' Out burger with some friends after seeing a movie back in high school. I moved out a state a few years ago and am now craving their animal style fries,lol.

[@PuppyKatt]

Story 1: NTA Your sister "knew" that her marriage was a sham, but she chose to put on a "happy marriage" front. She knew that her husband was cheating, and she is angry that other people now know, so she is forced to take off her happy face mask. I hope that her husband is using protection. If she is not talking to you, you have to convince your mother to take your sister in for testing for infections. Until she leaves her fantasy world, and faces the reality, all you can do is leave her alone, but be ready to help her when she is ready to need you. Good luck to both of you.

[@shaetoons3602]

Story 1: Op and the family has more sympathy than me. I probably would've snapped back at her. But im glad Op and the family were supportive and understanding.

[@hanoh2904]

I could never understand why people turn on the person who informs them about the cheating. If they really want to live happily in ignorance they can pretend it never happened

[@Dustin81]

Those people are not worth associating with after that. Let them stew in their self made hell from that point foreward.

[@gmun2248]

'The first stage of grief is denial'. While it's generally not held to be as rigid as that anymore, denial & anger are both natural reactions to difficult news. It doesn't make it okay to shoot the messenger, but it's also normal for us to lash out at people closest to us. Humans are weird.

[@a.munroe]

Repentance doesn't equate forgiveness.

[@x1tekja]

Story 1 sounds like dad was prepared For the inevitable separation

[@roowyrm9576]

Story 1 - that family was being amazing. Supporting but not blaming! I wish more families were like that! Story 2 - the difference in the families is so sad.

[@nuclearphoenix177]

Once again got my favourite KZbinr to listen to while getting ready for work, hope your days going swell mark!

[@BritInvLvr]

It’s amazing how the ‘religious ‘ parents in story 2 are so forgiving of brother’s stanky behavior towards OP.

[@caxtillo9876]

Okay not even a minute in, and I was surprised at OP's sister reaction. I was just thinking, "You dang idiot, it's your husband's fault for being with another woman, not your sister." I don't care that she was in shock. I'm glad that in the end, she apologized to OP and left that cheater (creep).

[@Deedoof]

Staying with a cheater is like living in a house with a missing roof. You cover the hole and pray it never rains but it still does until your house slowly rots from the inside and you have to decide to rot with the house or get out!

[@justinecorrington4106]

Story 2: look their parents know their son’s new leaf of being saved and preaching is questionable as the brother skipped the, go to the one you wronged and ask for forgiveness. They knew their pain was second hand and therefore their forgiveness is second hand. Lets be real, its the grandchild, they forgave because they got a kid

[@paulastiles5507]

Story #1: Poor OP. Glad the sister apologized. The ex sounds like a creep.

[@indianspartan76]

Love story 1 for working out like it should. W for OP, and W for Dad

[@strangelic4234]

"You have to forgive him because he repented and was saved" - if you ever want to feel pure, unfiltered disgust about this kind of "Christian" thinking, look up 'General Butt Naked' and keep in mind that today, he is a well-loved, loud-mouthed, leading member of a church. Because he repented and was saved. And he isn't really remorseful because Satan made him do what he did (just as content warning: he killed a lot of people and that wasn't the bad part). I don't hate religion and I do believe that forgiveness ON YOUR OWN TERMS is a powerful tool. But I do feel utter disgust for people who demand forgiveness for dreck like the General. I feel not that strongly but still strong about people like OP's parents, when it's obvious that in their book, "forgive him" really means "it's really inconvenient for us that you still bring that up."

[@CatLadyElegy]

Right! “Oh he found God and preaches about him now, everything should be forgiven! He’s been born again!” Eff that. The whole “Jesus forgives me, so it’s fine” mentality is one of the things I hate most about Christianity.

[@ruthsaunders9507]

@@CatLadyElegy There's some goofy "Christians" out there that don't read the Bible and they spread some crazy ideas about forgiveness. Its a whole process not something you just sweep under the carpet.

[@mortimerbrewster3671]

I loved going to church and being in a Christian community but walked away from it because of the hypocrites that were allowed to permeate the group. I would love to go back to church but it seems like a lot of modern "Christians" aren't really interested in walking the walk; they only talk.

[@pris1378]

my grandfather hit me more than once with "when i'm dead you'll regret not hugging me!" well, he's been dead for over 20 years and i still haven't regretted it yet. and mind you, if he just had stopped pestering me about it, i might have done it some day. like i did with my other grandparents...

[@rubymeaddle]

Story One: Glad the sister apologized to OP. Based on the information given, the ex BIL sounds like an abusive predator.

[@awesomepork101]

Good evening, waffle gang! Everyone is covered

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

Have a good day m8

[@lolalo6344]

"We have forgiven him, you should too." Oh, i didnt realise she was in a romanticrelationship with the parents too, girl must have been busy

[@Peeges_]

Thank you for hanging out with us ❤

[@hodgeelmwood8677]

Mark, if no one else has mentioned it, "In and Out" is a burger chain (story 2).

[@Morloch]

Story 2: They would both be my mortal enemies.

[@piratsnygg]

Story 2: I audibly gasped when SIL demanded their wedding suite. HOW do you even get the thought, let alone say something so insanely entitled and bonkers out loud?!

[@louellacharlton4425]

Tyvm Mark

[@cynthiaj7948]

Story 1 HECK NO! I would of took pics. They need to stop shooting the messegers.

[@gaaraxnaru]

OP took video of it. The sister was just in denial and later admitted as such.

[@Voodoomaria]

Story #1: Be careful when trying to help a wounded dog, it WILL bite you.

[@crow6221]

The second story is such a "of course" reaction lol.

[@colleens1107]

Story one: ehhh you think you know EVERYTHING at 20. Poor thing. I’m just glad OPs sister found out the truth about hubby BEFORE she had a kid with him. Now she can break it off and never have to deal with him again

[@johnbradbury8610]

story 3, NTA, It might be best to not have them at the wedding. It seems like when OP gives them a hand they want the entire arm.

[@ellorasg4525]

Story 1: Sibling goals right there.

[@MysticMae21]

In&out is a fast food place i believe

[@tegantalks9612]

Story 1: NTA. Have you ever heard the phrase “don’t shoot the messenger”? Well it’s a phrase for a reason because in ancient times people used to literally shoot people who delivered bad news due to anger. Your sister is hurt and upset and directing the anger at you because you told her about it. It’s not right but it happens. She’s also probably now cycling through the stages of grief. Give her space and make sure to keep a copy of the video. If she comes around then she may need it.

[@goatkiller666]

For those wondering what In-n-Out is: it’s a chain of drive-up burger joints in the US south. You pull into a space, speak your order into a microphone, and wait. The servers wear roller skates to bring you your food. The food is higher quality than McD’s, and their milkshakes are even better still. But, you get what you pay for. Very 1950s vibe to the whole thing. Def “special occasion” fast food, but still fast food.

[@squidward6187]

She is more concerned about her fake life than her real life.

[@Vallyrah]

Story 2: She didn't break up with OP, she just left. As for the parents. . . It is there job to love their children, even when don't approve. They lose out on their grandchildren if they don't handle this right. I understand them making mistakes, but there is a middle ground. 1) OP sets firm boundaries. Send them in writing, email, text, etc. Make it clear that he won't push them to abandon their son, but they are NEVER to take his side over OP's in this matter or they will lose OP and any future children he has with them. 2) Also let them know that you expect to be able to communicate with them with out being harassed by your brother; and that it is part of their responsibility to establish and maintain this. 3) Let them know that this is not up for a discussion, they accept it or lose you now. 4) If they break this boundary give them 1 warning, if they don't back off immediately walk away and cut off communication. They can love both of their children, all of their grandchildren, but they can not harm one for the other.

[@lockhak33]

I think the brother should have to give an entire sermon all about how he met his wife without leaving a single detail out and if the entire church gives him a standing ovation knowing an of the sins he committed then and only then should OP consider forgiving him.

[@chromadelon6301]

Ah. In-and-Out... The best fast food for the broken and hurting. Bless you, Burger Overlords, and your deep-fried healing ways.

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

OP's definitely NTA. She's a hero as far as I'm concerned. ❤ This is just a classic case of shooting the messenger. I understand not wanting the suspicion of your spouse cheating to be true. But at some point, the truth is going to stare at you in the face and by that point, you have a choice to make. Either accept that cruel, painful reality or continuing living in a bubble of delusion. It's a harsh lesson, but I'm so glad she learned it and left that creep. Thank God she didn't have any children with him. And although I wouldn't have blamed OP and her parents for serving her a bowl of "I Told You So", I'm so happy they helped her escape that sham of a marriage. ❤

[@gmun2248]

Given there's a 13 year age gap & she got married at age 20, I'd guess she's been somewhat conditioned not to question him. Maybe in an extreme, abusive way or maybe just because she saw him as older and 'let' him lead. Also, if she got married at 20, she dated a 30+ guy as a teen. She was never independent & no circumstances about her life/ relationship are revealed. I think she has been a victim & it's good she is out of that situation. Still not right to take it out on the sister, but that was short-lived & she apologized properly.

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

@@gmun2248 Yikes! 😰 I can't believe I missed the potential grooming part. Disgusting! 🤢 Now I'm even MORE thankful OP saved her sister!

[@debbipriz]

There is no need for OP to forgive his brother. He should thank him for showing him how wrong his gf was for him and also thank him for showing how untrustworthy he is. In the long run OP is better off without these people in his life. Time for the cheating brother to live with the consequences of his choices.

[@godzillakungfu]

Welp, as usual, shoot the messenger never goes away.

[@susanvanophem4569]

In and out is a drive thru only burgers in the USA. We also have a saying, " If he cheats with you , he'll cheat on you." He'll try to reconnect when they're divorcing. Live a great life minus those jerks of a brother and ex girlfriend.

[@sinbadwilliams7186]

Mark I heard the confusion in your voice as you said In and out. It's a fast food burger chain mainly located in California with a few locations in the surrounding states

[@Kat-ni6wq]

Story 2, one of these days their child will ask why their Uncle isn't around, 😂.

[@roelthas]

I hope OP at least had the smarts to told all his family why he cut off his brother.

[@soulanstreets222]

2nd story: He should forgive his brother. Forgiveness isn't about saying that what the person did was okay, it's about releasing all the negative emotions that are preventing the victim from moving forward. Holding onto the anger when he sees his brother isn't doing him any good and it's going the affect other parts of his life if he doesn't let the anger go. Forgiveness doesn't mean "I trust you" and it doesn't mean "I'm going to pretend nothing happened"...it just means you're not going to hold onto those negative emotions anymore and move on. He can still forgive his brother and ex and go no contact with them.

[@rylashadow18]

S1) Jane doesn't deserve you OP. Anyone enabling doesn't either. Jane still doesn't deserve OP. The person who ruined the marriage ya know James? It was all his fault for being a scum diver and the sister for wanting to play ignorant fool. I'm just glad Jane apologized to OP for what she did. S2) Once someone cheats they're meant for the streets. The relationship you had with them? Yeah that no longer exist. People want to enable that? Have fun joining the trash on the corner. Your brother did you a huge favor OP. He got what he's asking for too. Cause if they're willing to cheat with you their willing to cheat on you. They deserve each other tbh. Nah anytime you get confronted by this stranger you're only answer is "Do I even know you?" The only other thing I'd do is hand him a paternity test. "Just in case." OP be ready to cut off your parents. They've told you their perfectly fine with boundary stomping. Also just because he preaches now doesn't mean he won't sin or be unfaithful. I agree just give the two of the cheaters time if something hasn't happened already. S3) Time to disinvite the BIL, the family and the need to be center of attention SIL. Give their seats to friends/ co-workers/ family that would like to come. Get security on the doors and at the room just to be safe. Someone sounds like the golden child and it's not OP's future hubby. If they wanna blow up the relationship up over you showing your spine it's time for them to take it to the corner of not OP's circus not OP's monkey.