I took a Christian class about atheism. It was worse than I expected.

[@psychedelicfungi]

The fact that he speaks of "tactics" says it all. He's not interested in having a discussion; he just wants to "win".

[@vibeslide]

I was thinking the same.

[@effyleven]

@@vibeslide Me too.

[@JD-xz1mx]

Its an apologetics course. Apologetics in anything is definitionally tactical. This is like complaining that a debate class is too focused on arguing.

[@vibeslide]

@@JD-xz1mx Hmm. In that case it might've been a misunderstanding on my part. This entire theism vs. atheism thing feels really alien to me and I only stumbled accidentally over this video (Thx KZbin). I think this debate , and the world as a whole, needs more of "We agree to disagree".

[@Julia-lk8jn]

@@JD-xz1mx I looked the word up, and found the definition "defense of a faith". I wouldn't say that that necessarily means the "out to score points" approach of this video, but then I haven't read the entire article. But defending one's faith shouldn't by definition mean to use straw arguments or false similes like ( cause of the entire cosmos can be deduced just like the cause of a knock in the door) or by just making up anecdotes.

[@biggiechungus784]

"Atheists don't even try to explain the cause of the universe" The entire field of cosmology: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@ichabod1370]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Blah, Blah, Blah. 'Bye.

[@OVERCLOCKexe]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Yeah, you won't be convincing a single person in this comments section

[@Dragonage2ftw]

That is a dumb quote. Devout Catholic, btw.

[@glasshorse6893]

knowing some of these people, yeah it probably is a joke to him

[@tone618]

well frick you jesus he decided to die for sins I have not and never will commit his problem not mine I never asked him to

[@saniwa655]

As a European, born and raised in a country with a big, deep historical and cultural background in Christianity yet where sciences are studied without any problem from any religious group, I'm baffled by how a lot of religious people in the US still treat religion and science like before the Enlightenment, or worse before the XVI century.

[@MendTheWorld]

It is not irrelevant that a significant component of the New World Branch of Europe was founded by fundamentalists who couldn’t function within the framework of the church orthodoxy in the countries where they came from. There’s always been a focus here on the “personal god”, whose existence is self-evident, and with whom it is possible to commune solely through personal experience, rather than through the mediation of the clergy. Actually. I’m just repeating something I’ve read. I’m not sure I even believe it. I can’t really comprehend the phenomenon you’re describing either.

[@mirablue1135]

Agreed!! I am from the UK, and even here if you say ur an atheist or a Christian or a Muslim or a Sikh, people don't care, They just treat you like a person. There if you say your an atheist, everyone cares

[@asphalthedgehog6580]

Exactly that. No-one here has to defend his/her belief or non-belief. Why care about that? I have some colleagues who really are Christians, one the son of a reverend but they still believe in evolution and that the earth is not flat. It's just ignorance to not believe in science. Because... if you believe, who created science. Without nature laws (who designed these) there would exist exactly: nothing.

[@RettMikhal]

Blame the South.

[@FuriouslySleepingIde]

American culture missed the Wars of Religion in Europe. We didn't have the 30 years war where Catholic vs Protestant left a higher proportion of the German population dead than either world war. We didn't have Anglican persecutions of Crypto-Catholics. We didn't have the inquisitions. The horrors of religion unchained killed the idea of Christendom in Europe. In American culture, Religion was a civilizing force. It was Christian settlers against non-Christian savages (or masters against slaves). It was the Wild West frontier transformed into settled communities centered on their Church. America did have the same seeds of conflict that Europe had in the 16th and 17th centuries. However the Americans solved them in a manner not available to Europe. They split communities and dissenters formed new colonies. The Puritans split from England. Rhode Island split from the Puritans. This doesn't justify the regressive views of American religion, just explains how they survived.

[@SHCVoodoo]

"If some rocks fall off of a mountain... did they just fall? No, there has to be a faller. Rocks don't just *fall* off mountains. If a gust of wind blows, did it just blow from natural causes? No! There has to be someone there with a hair dryer or really, really big lungs! There has to be a blower!"

[@champiggyfrm_pig5271]

I mean there's always a "how", how did the rock fall ? By being pushed by the wind. How was the wind created ? Etc. until you can encompass all that there is. There is however no goal in the rock falling, it did not fall for a purpose

[@victoriousv5565]

But it did. It fell to decrease its potential energy(to go into a state with lower energy) and increase entropy

[@jibjibs9401]

@@victoriousv5565Are you saying there are natural explanations for how events occur??? No! All things require a do-er!

[@danhtran6401]

It's well known. For every action, there is a reaction...

[@cody.vagabond]

@@victoriousv5565 But did entropy really increase? (sorry, I have no idea about entropy, I probably ignored all about the energy aspects here, but I was just thinking in terms of a planet and material. If the rock falls it does so cause gravity is trying to make the planet as much a sphere as possible, and isn't entropy lower when you can describe something in less complex terms? Cause I could describe a perfectly spherical planet much easier than one with hills with random rocks on them, the perfect sphere would be less chaotic.)

[@Voobit]

I have aphantasia, which means that I lack a minds eye. I can’t picture things in my head. I also can’t hear things, feel things, and smell things that I imagine. In Greg’s world, that means that I wouldn’t have a soul.

[@Iugdcbbjugghj]

Stupid is knowing the truth seeing the truth and still believing the lies

[@marknieuweboer8099]

In my world - and I try to match it with reality as much as I can - you don't have a soul either. Neither do I and Kouklekou.

[@ChrischenL]

I was about to write the same. I apparently don’t have a soul either.

[@ggtragicsansbro6495]

Begone souless demon

[@michaeluwuowo]

No one can smell or feel things in their brain?

[@murderduck2246]

“Atheists are making a case” Normally we’re just trying to live and enjoy life, we don’t want to convince you of anything

[@prismaticc_abyss]

I only tell people there is no god if they try to present me with their lies that there is one. I don't go around preaching to people who didn't ask like theists do. If theists didn't exist there would be no need for atheism, we would all be agnostic.

[@prismaticc_abyss]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 hahaha, no. Go spread your fairy tales somewhere else

[@korok7523]

@@prismaticc_abyss ignore it. Pretty sure it’s a bot

[@geraldmahoney4856]

I’m non-religious and I believe there is no god. I don’t call myself an atheist because I don’t label myself based on superstition. I believe in the constitution of the United States and that everybody can worship as they please as long as they don’t push their beliefs on me. I do not judge or disparage anyone who is religious. Also, I will not debate, discuss or insult anyone’s religious beliefs. You do you; I will do me.

[@LineOfThy]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Holy sh*t

[@wolfgangbrooks]

You ask, how could he be in Christian apologetics for so long without being able to address the most basic counter-argument. It's easy, his target audience isn't atheists, Christians pay the man to reassure themselves. He doesn't NEED a coherent logical argument.

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

After interacting with apologists for a while now, I have to agree here.

[@Ignirium]

OP posted this comment 2 days ago and the author of the video responded 3 days ago! What is this evidence of?

[@jeffallen8689]

@@Ignirium Time zones?

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

How do atheists ground a belief in logic itself? You are appealing to something here that is immaterial, invariant, and abstract but how do you know it exists?

[@jeffallen8689]

@@tnyw872621h8474h9 could your question be rephreased as "how do we know math exists?" and what does "exist" mean, in this context? I argue that it means "it functions"

[@Cajek2]

9:32 "Hey Atheist: Explain all of existence or I win."

[@LarsFaut-fj5zp]

This would have been a funny comment if it wasn’t so true.

[@Harker777]

You introduce God and complicate the problem. Think logically and you'll find flaws in your thinking. That shouldn't be the question though, as it's you who has the burden of proof and you have no proof. Substituting 'faith' for proof does not count.......so explain to me how God came about, what he made the universe from, why an expanding universe, why Jesus failed dying for our sins....why not just make the universe with us on it instead of waiting billions of years before man arrived and when he did, it took him hundreds of thousands of years to become the man of today. You see people discount scale and time and get confused when confronting issues I've made above , just as a starting point.. You can't explain God. Stop pretending.

[@Cajek2]

@@Harker777 the theist having the burden of proof is exactly the right way to approach theological conversations

[@Harker777]

@@Cajek2 No it's not. I believe in fairies and you don't ...yet you have to prove to me that they don't exist? Illogical. Even then, which god do I have to prove doesn't exist? All of them? No one can prove God exists therefore the theist (pick your religion) has to use all sorts of word games in order to endeavour...and endeavour only, that the God of their faith exists. This myst be obvious to clear headed people.

[@Harker777]

@@Cajek2 Secondly, there'd be no reason for the term atheist, if it wasn't for those pesky theists. :)

[@GodOfBrevity]

Thank you for explaining how “I don’t know” is such a valid and important part of scientific methodology. “I don’t know but I want to study it” launched more ships than virtually any other thought.

[@GalacticalHistorian]

I definitely agree! The curiosity of humans that could have stemmed from a lack of understanding about the world around them has led to many advancements in varying fields, and it would be missing the point completely to ignore “I don’t know” as a valid response.

[@axl256gamesx7]

It certainly helped more than religion... than modern religion

[@axl256gamesx7]

Idk i like roman gods It was such a cool thing

[@Ajehy]

I used to work at a history museum. When a visitor asked a question I didn’t know the answer to, I’d admit I didn’t know instead of making something up and sending them away with wrong information.

[@Ajehy]

@@axl256gamesx7Roman (and other polytheistic gods) make for great stories. Why does bad stuff happen to good people? There’s always SOMEONE to piss off!

[@MaximilliansHammer]

I think the reason Christian Apologists are so confident is because they've won EVERY SINGLE argument they've ever had with the hypothetical atheists they make up in their heads. An impressive 100% win rate.

[@michabaron4129]

I mean even in the stories he brings up as examples of using his bulletproof points in real life atheists are like 'yeah i dont buy it bro' which is something

[@michabaron4129]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 no thanks

[@jimmyjon9970]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 shut up, heathen

[@JiveDadson]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 What makes you think all that? Saying "Ray Comfort" does not count.

[@69eddieD]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Yawn

[@javieradorno2503]

This guy’s argument can be summed up to this: “The bible story sounds pretty to me. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. There’s no way it can’t be true.”

[@2gandalf257]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 bro heaven does not exist

[@Highdisordermortal]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Cope + ratio

[@Highdisordermortal]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 I'll never believe in any god.

[@2gandalf257]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 The problem is, if i was alone without other humans how would i know to follow a random dude if he keeps a secret if i dont know.

[@comfeytimid1207]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 are you sure you don't have DID or schizophrenia? often times these religious experiences relate to these two disorders

[@DeveloperChris]

Never ask a christian to prove God exists. instead ask them to prove their version of god exists and enjoy the confusion that follows.

[@ashwylde3131]

Or their self-righteous anger that comes from thinking that Christianity is the only true religion.

[@Slash31415]

​@@ashwylde3131I'm curious, what does the atheist have to say about the evil in the world?

[@asddsa-dy4ne]

@@Slash31415 what evil?

[@Slash31415]

@@asddsa-dy4ne um! look around you.

[@asddsa-dy4ne]

@@Slash31415 Well, there is a war going on just a few hundred km from where I live and it sucks. What do you have to say about the evil in the world?

[@Ari19904]

“Think of the most morally grotesque thing you can think of” Hmmm, how about telling children they’re going to burn in hell for eternity if they don’t believe in Jesus? That’s sounds pretty morally reprehensible to me.

[@spiritbaki108]

Or going back in time a little, *actually* burning the children for not believing in Jesus

[@michiyaslana5974]

I vote for condemning people for sex before marriage when priests assault children and get punished by moving to another parish, where they have a new pool of children to potentially hurt!

[@chuii_]

Ok👀

[@spicytrash4981]

@@chuii_ oKaY 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀

[@reptoidrenaissance]

Not to mention doing that while defending priests who molest children, teaching kids that all observable reality is fake but magic & proven hoaxes are real, and encouraging the idea that anyone different deserves to die if they won't blindly obey whatever fairytales they're told... all done by fundamentalist Christians.

[@ascender14]

I'm a Christian myself, so I don't agree with all of your views, but I DO agree with each and every one of your objections to Koukl's invalid and disrespectful approach. I have been trying to communicate to fellow Christians for years that we cannot set up straw men to knock down and then feel like we have "won" something. I am very ashamed of the way many Christians approach conversations with those who disagree, using words like "tactical" and "this is the trick they will try", as though conversations with unbelievers are akin to war and that genuine disagreements are mere "tricks". I do not think that anyone who is not willing to consider that it is in fact THEY who are wrong has any business suggestion that the OTHER is wrong. Great video.

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Thank you! I really appreciate you communicating that to your fellow Christians. I myself try to influence other atheists to converse in a less combative, more compassionate way. Hopefully together we can help people better preserve their relationships while discussing this stuff! 🙏

[@psibert]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 The concept of 'sin' only exists if you accept the concept of a God. A sin is defined as an act against divine law. I do not accept the concept of a God, ergo I cannot sin. I can commit acts that are not conducive to societal good. It is likely that conformity to a common set of values is an evolutionary advantage, thus laws become codified and transgressors are punished. The search for reason behind things is also advantageous. The assumption that there is a reason for the noise in the dark leads to taking cover and survival as opposed to ignoring the noise and being killed by the things that made it. I could got on, but all I can do is provide rational explanations, which you will probably not accept. You will continue to believe that an all powerful being spent 13.6 billion years creating an almost infinite universe for the sole purpose of placing us on this rock round a very average star. And then has a 'personal' conversation with each of us. Even then after 2,000 years just 30% of those human follow Christianity and even they cannot agree on exactly what it means. Is that really very likely?

[@Hiforest]

@@psibert No one knows what the bible said when it was written. It is accepted it has been translated and altered over the centuries by man, and yet it is still considered the word of God. Even if a God had a hand in the original text, it's not anything close to that now, I just don't think anyone should be trusting it.

[@thecubist3817]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 "either you are lying or Jesus is lying." Why not both? why cant I sin and jesus have not died for it? what jesus just died because he was saying some pretty crazy stuff against the important people of the time so they had him executed? the two things are not mutually exclusive.

[@TheOmegaXicor]

@@thecubist3817 the usual answer there is that he said that's why he is dying (I massively doubt any of the books saying that have any evidence behind them) but "if the book that says he died also says he said that is why then logically he has to have died for that reason" and that makes sense to people.

[@rossgalbraith3878]

I like what Matt Dillahunty says about the "explanatory" power of theism: you can't explain a mystery by appealing to a larger mystery.

[@petyreyvind9963]

That's actually a really good point-

[@chrislyne377]

It's turtles all the way down

[@Given119]

Because... Chance and time... Like that isn't synonymous with mystery.

[@rossgalbraith3878]

@@Given119 Correct. Neither are synonymous with mystery.

[@Given119]

@@rossgalbraith3878 chance and time in fact "mystery" catagories in the context of a godless worldview. The fact that a godless worldview can't account for or be be absolutely certain of much if anything exposes the foolishness of godlessness. 🤷🏼‍♂️ How'd the universe get here... Don't know, time and chance. Same appeal to the unknown.

[@torrom9207]

“Tactics” aren’t to be used in a discussion, they are used when you want to “win” and not learn. The ideal outcome from a discussion or argument is both parties learning something and furthering their understandings

[@bigbucksspender]

I disagree, I think having tactics that you've thought about beforehand is a good way to be consistent and describe your position more accurately so that you can have a meaningful conversation

[@Biscotum]

@@bigbucksspender On the other other hand (where'd this third arm come from), when these "tactics" boil down to little more than "gotcha" questions, deflection and frantic goalpost moving, it's difficult to consider them as coming from a place of good faith, thus returning to the premise that they are intending to "win" and nothing more.

[@bigbucksspender]

@@Biscotum Yes but that's not all the time, if that's the purpose of those tactics then I agree they're bad but I don't think many people do that on purpose. The problem is with the people themselves doing that kind of thing, not with thinking about and making a plan for your argument beforehand

[@breakfaith3031]

This dude reminds me of my grade 9 English teacher who tried to tell me that I'm not an atheist because I spent Christmas with my family instead of at school. What was I gonna do, go sit on the steps in front of the locked building for several hours in the middle of winter?

[@jonasmariunas9507]

she says yes

[@markshepperson3603]

You should have told him where Thursday came from.

[@Dagoroth55]

You say you celebrate Winter Solstice like a Pagan.

[@breakfaith3031]

@@markshepperson3603 I don't think she's ready for that kind of knowledge lol

[@Eldiran1]

​@@markshepperson3603 OH i google it and it's amazing , i didn't know. Fun fact , in france , we change saturday and sunday to be more christian (just the name , saturday become samedi , a word derived from "shabbat" , and sunday become dimanche , a word originated from "dies Dominicus" , the lord's day ) . But in english and other like german , they keep the roman origins . (it's pretty obvious with SUNday but not so much with saturday ). Thanks for the trivia man , appreciate !

[@user-J.M.A.I]

"This is why you can gas termites but not je-..." He went all in with that one

[@elk7212]

for real, why noone talking about that bruh

[@megavolt2951]

I literally jumped and checked to make sure I heard him right. Craziest thing I've heard all day.

[@WisteriaDrake]

"Why do we feel that all humans are equal?" For one, that's fucking RICH coming from a Christian. Have you even read your book, mate? Do you not know your own history? Ever heard of the KKK and Westboro Baptist? For another, if that's true, then WHY did the Holocaust happen? Why has slavery happened? You're trying to claim that humans have some collective internal sense that we're all equal, but the fact that anyone ever has done horrible things that you wouldn't even do to animals, to other people, falsifies your claim, bucko.

[@SuperCopyCat12]

"Surely it's not THAT mask off-" "Well fuck me it really is"

[@mrs.kittycatgirl]

Crazy

[@jungtothehuimang]

"maybe we feel guilty because we are guilty" is the most diagusting thing to think, there are so many people woth mental health conditions like OCD, PTSD, severe anxiety disorders, etc where their brain overwhelms them with an unwarranted sense of guilt. These people are not guilty of anything except having mental illness. And people like this are just creating more pain for people who are already suffering.

[@ASweetShortCake]

Where did he say that? Could I please get a Timestamp?

[@DRKLRD-kv4cm]

​@@ASweetShortCakei think around the last 6 minutes

[@AidanDaGreat]

Yeah I suffered from anxiety and depression because I felt helpless and that I was going to help. I got the help I needed though. It really rankles me to see this. This could’ve drove me to you know whatting myself. Sorry about him.

[@jungtothehuimang]

@@AidanDaGreat sorry you had to go through this as well my friend, glad to hear you got the help you needed! Hope you're doing well.

[@AidanDaGreat]

@@jungtothehuimang I'm doing well now, thanks for asking. It's just that my fellow Christians can be such jerks makes me rather upset.

[@iambuhlockay8007]

Atheist: “What’s 100,567 x 6789?” Christian: “I couldn’t answer that off the top of my head” Atheist: “Well, I think the answer is 2.” Christian: “That’s definitely not true.” Atheist: “But you couldn’t even answer the question, and I could. So I’m right.” Christian: “But that’s not how math works. Multiplying two positive numbers will always give you a number greater than the two numbers being multiplied.” Atheist: “Oh, so even though you couldn’t answer the question, you can still use logic to rule out other false answers?” Christians: “…”

[@marksykes1191]

Maths !

[@Akiraboyu]

No: an atheist will ask for a demonstration for his reasoning, as it doesn't match classical mathematics concept, then argue based on how this reasoning is good or not and logical or not. (well in your case, it's the atheist who make a affirmation without proof, the burden of proof is for him). Maybe because this atheist know that you probably refer to logic and mathematic currently used and known as "Peano axioms", wich is a kind of "logic framework" used for arithmetics. But other frameworks can be created with their own axioms, in which a "100,567 x 6789" could be equal to 2! This answer so could be true under this specific axioms, but won't be true for Peano axioms.. And this, my dear, is an good example of knowledge, critical thinking and logic. And why religious peoples often fail to understand, lacking the will, the knowledge, or the cognitive ability to do so. And a small final point: on your fictive dialogue here, you are fallaciouslly inverting the arguments where the Atheist would make an affirmation and the christian asking for proof: in reallity, it's the exact opposite. You are welcomed.

[@iambuhlockay8007]

@@Akiraboyu Thanks… I guess? I’m not really sure what point you thought you made, or what point you thought I made.

[@Akiraboyu]

@@iambuhlockay8007 A solid hypothesis here is that..... I didn't get your point :D But we may never know :p (or maybe we will)

[@yohanndg1278]

​@@Akiraboyu Pretty sure you didn't, but it was fun to read 😂

[@gentlesoul221]

The worst part about this whole course is the fact that, and stay with me here...he's fine with challenging atheists' beliefs, but if an atheist tried to challenge christian beliefs, it would be labeled as an attack on religion. People like this are the biggest hypocrites out there, and give my faith a bad name. Edit: I am open minded and accept everyone no matter what they believe, as long as you don't hurt anyone. I believe what I want, so I let anyone do the same within reason

[@charliepershall5956]

The Dishonest and Christian's Fear Truth Because 'Truth' exposes their Dishonesty. Christian's Basic Principles Are Corrupt How is it that you Christian's successfully deceive those in other nations to worship your Imaginary Mythical Fantasy Gods? And then go to war for the nation you worship. And kill those members of your own churches? The Basic Principle Of Christianity It is Corrupt and far from Justice. To sentence and executing an innocent man for the crime of all humanity. What Honest person would let your neighbor be executed for your own crime? Evidently a Christian would. However, you all will face your own consequences, for your corruption and crime. You will not pin it on an innocent man. You all will harvest what you plant. And Christianity also promote Cannibalism by a ritual that they pretend they are eating Jesus's flesh and drinking his blood. Truth Is Existence Truth is All That Truly Exists. Other Than Truth there is Just The understood Concept of An Absence. Lies with intent to deceive or not is fantasy. Lies remain in the nonexistent realm. Nothing Can Survive Singular It is only in a huge Complex Mass form can anything survive and succeed. The Great Creator and the Spirit Energy Source, Its Is Science, it is not Religion. Religion is Fantasy. The Great Designer and Creator, The spirit Energy Source, Matter, Knowledge, Energy, Time and Space Has Always Existed. All are Without Beginning or end. Beginning and End only reveals an absence. The Great Creator is far more Massive and complex than the God worshipers realize and understand. The Great Creator is not a being somewhere in space. The Great Creator is a huge mass of spirits in perfect unity. And with the same care for each another. Honesty and understanding is the only true belief. Without honesty and understanding we do not know what to believe. To accept other’s opinion of the truth without proving it to yourself; it is being deceived it is not believing. We must understand to believe. Truth will solve all our problems before we create them; and ignore or reject the truth; problems will multiply all by themselves; those problems will need no help. Have a great and a meaningful life if it is at all possible. Just whispers, of the Spirit of Reality.

[@ClementGreen]

You don't need atheists to give your faith a bad name. You've done all work yourselves already.

[@charliepershall5956]

The Honest will search & Find The Truth Do not expects some one else to find and prove the Truth to you. It is your responsibility. The task is simple and Easy. Truth Is Existence Truth is All That Truly Exists. Other Than Truth there is Just The understood Concept of An Absence. Lies with intent to deceive or not is fantasy. Lies remain in the nonexistent realm. Creation is only the rearrangement of Matter. As Existence and Matter does not evolve from nothing. The Great Designer and Creator, The Spirit Energy Source, Matter, Knowledge, Energy, Time, and Space Has Always Existed. All Without Beginning or end. Beginning and End only reveals an absence. The Great Creator is far more Massive and complex than the God worshipers realize and understand. The Great Creator is not a being somewhere in space. The Great Creator is a huge mass of spirits in perfect unity. And with the same care for each another. The Basic Principles of All Creation Is A Huge complex Mass Of Smaller Particles. Nothing Can Survive Singular It is only in a huge Complex Mass can anything survive and succeed. The Great Creator and the Spirit Energy Source, Its Is Science, it is not Religion. Religion is Fantasy. The Basic Of Justice It is do unto others as you would like to be done unto you. The Basic Principle Of Christianity It is Corrupt and far from Justice. To sentence and executing an innocent man for the crime of all humanity. What Honest person would let your neighbor be executed for your own crime? Evidently a Christian would. However, you all will face your own consequences, for your corruption and crime. You will not pin it on an innocent man. You all will harvest what you plant. consequences for corrupt behavior is How the spirits of human learn. And Christianity also promote Cannibalism by a ritual that they pretend they are eating Jesus's flesh and drinking his blood. The Great Creator performs Justice. You all will face your own consequences for your corruption and crimes. You will not pin them an innocent Man. How is it that you Christian's successfully deceive those in other nations to worship your Imaginary Mythical Fantasy Gods? And then go to war for the nation you worship. And kill those members of your own churches? The Universe was the first Intelligent design That we are aware of. The Universe was specially designed for life on this Planet Earth. it is powered and controlled by the 'The Spirit Energy Source.' True Science and Truth are the same, both are the understanding of the Great Creator that Created all that exists, and the Understanding of the Great Creator's Creation. Words to the honest and wise: honesty and understanding is the only true belief. Without honesty and understanding we do not know what to believe. To accept other’s opinion of the truth without proving it to yourself; it is being deceived it is not believing. We must understand to believe. Until Next time: Sweet Dreams: Truth will solve all our problems before we create them; and ignore or reject the truth; problems will multiply all by themselves; those problems will need no help. Have a great and a meaningful life if it is at all possible. Just whispers, of the Spirit of Reality.

[@gentlesoul221]

@@ClementGreen As a christian, I will agree, we have had too many bad apples.

[@ClementGreen]

@@gentlesoul221 The first being Jesus, who was not only a convicted criminal, but believed in human sacrifice. To give him his due though, he didn't sacrifice other people, just himself. But still.

[@FurTheWorkers]

"Where was that image? It wasn't in your brain." Yes! Yes, it was! Literally everything you see is in your brain, because that's how senses work and are processed.

[@adamwright4135]

if these people had even a basic grasp of the science they so easily dismiss, we wouldn't have to argue about things like evolution, "something coming from nothing", and so on - concepts with an irrefutable scientific explanation that don't require the intervention of some magic supernatural being

[@Julia-lk8jn]

@@michaelenquist3728 I know that science needs to be falsifiable, but I'm not sure that "irrefutable" is the same as "not falsifiable". Doesn't "irrefutable" in the context used mean "proven beyond any reasonable doubt" ? If not, is there another word for it? (English isn't my first language.)

[@paulustrucenus]

@@Julia-lk8jn Something irrefutable is something there CAN'T be any counter argument to. For example, I could say that unicorns exist, but they don't interact with traditional matter and thus can't be detected by our instruments nor our senses. There is no counter argument showing this can't be true. It is irrefutable, and thus not scientific. Einstein's theory is considered as true by everyone, but we could maybe one day make a new discovery which could invalidate Einstein's theory. But my theory regarding unicorns cannot in any way be proven 100% wrong.

[@amarvelouscalm]

Yeah, by his logic because I have aphantasia, which makes me completely unable to "picture" things in my mind, I don't have a soul. I wonder how that jives with his worldview.

[@SagiNoSaint]

@@paulustrucenus That's falsifiability not irrefutability, for example, 2 + 2 = 4 is irrefutable, but it's falsifiable because it can be tested and tried to prove wrong, you won't succeed that's why its irrefutable. For clarification heres the definition: Falsifiability is the capacity for some proposition, statement, theory or hypothesis to be proven wrong. That capacity is an essential component of the scientific method and hypothesis testing. In a scientific context, falsifiability is sometimes considered synonymous with testability.

[@rektdedrip]

"We're just evolved creatures. We're the result of accident and chance." Honestly, I believe that makes us even more special than being handmade by some deity.

[@daseagod6127]

​@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Why would an omniscient all powerful being care if a couple of its weak and powerless creations belived in it? Does your god have such a fragile ego that it needs validation from its ant like creations?

[@lakshitathakur2302]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 sorry I’m Hindu 🙏🏼

[@masterwizivan1788]

I completely agree, but I was surprised he used the example of an unplanned pregnancy, is that not special? I'm sure plenty of people love their children even if they were from an unplanned pregnancy. Depending on the way you think it could make the child even more special because the parents wouldn't have had them if it wasn't for that pure chance

[@cp37373]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363calm down with the jokes this is serious business. Lmao

[@AnarquiaCookbook]

Also, "just" is such a fucking dumb pejorative for the fact that we beat the odds and came from literally nothing.

[@Tasarran]

When I was young, I figured out Santa Claus, and I confronted my parents. They explained to me that Santa was to make Christmas special to little kids, and also (and this was the part that really stuck) telling little kids about Santa helped get them to behave. I was a smart little kid, and I realized it was a good thing to trick little kids who didn't know better into behaving with a mythical gift-giver (who sometimes was acted out by real people). My parents used the case of my rambunctious younger brother as really only listening under threat of Santa a lot of the time, and it made sense to me. It took me about two weeks to make the connection that religion is exactly the same thing! However, I slowly realized that the adults still really believed in this God person. I was baffled; couldn't they see the Santa truth? It was so clear to me...

[@voidb0rn211]

Honestly, since religion has existed forever in society, and considering the hardships and crudelty of the ancient world, it makes sense that people needed a reason, an explaination and a purpose in life, so that society would be a better place and people wouldn't just give up. Religion has kept soldiers determined and has made people have morals. It's just that, with more time for existential thinking, some people realized they don't need a god to explain things and have morals, and just abandoned the idea completely. I am agnostic, I don't believe we humans could really comprehend who and what god is, if it's an intelligent creature or just another set of laws, and I believe there's not really a point going past the "I don't know what caused everything" to try to understand the impossible. I think everyone should just believe in what they want, but it seems people really like to impose their idea on others and have to fight meaningless wars... what a sad reality

[@koniolg]

fr, believing in "being good so I can get presents" and "believing in being good so I can get p̶r̶e̶s̶e̶n̶t̶s̶ eternal life" are two totally different things, definitely not made up to control people and their (at least what would people in power perceive as) undesirable behaviour !?

[@l.n.3372]

I had that same realization but with the tooth fairy at age 6

[@troyserdynski4030]

Hearing humanity called "The ultimate unplanned pregnancy" is oddly the best way to describe humanity and I will proceed to use it from now on.

[@rhokesh4391]

That actually made me laugh out loud, nice comparison ;) I would like to add that the result of an unplanned pregnancy, i.e., a baby, can make their parents very happy, and such a child can go on to lead a happy, fulfilled life, in which case the accident was a good thing.

[@kspoo10_]

I _am_ cosmic junk ✨🌌🌠

[@fantasyreading5246]

I totally agree and the guilt is supposed to be because we were unwanted and we are supposed to be ashamed of that? That's just so abusive In my opinion and depressing 😕

[@stm7810]

It makes me even more in favour of abortion.

[@renanleandro5914]

Yeah, I don't understand why people like the professor from the course need to believe that humanity is somehow special, why does believing that you are cosmic junk is something so disturbing for them? What's wrong in not being special to the eyes of the universe? The universe doesn't give a fuck about us and we also don't need to give a fuck about what it thinks about us. We need to be special to one another, that's what truly matters, we ARE special to one another simply because we are all human beings.

[@deadzoneternity]

As someone with aphantasia, it's a sad day to discover I have no soul because I can't picture my mother's clothing in my head.

[@leol2254]

this is so sad

[@deadzoneternity]

@@thefaithfulchristian2035 No, you may not, thanks for asking tho

[@thefaithfulchristian2035]

@@deadzoneternity no problem thank you

[@dolfuny]

I'm actually feeling pretty good about it, no soul for me lol

[@maalikserebryakov]

Wow ur life must suck

[@corvididaecorax2991]

Greg Koukl is a fascinating individual. He is a living example of the worst caricatures of Christian Aplologists, proof that such people do in fact exist.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Bet he lives in a very homogenous upper class neighborhood and cooks a great barbeque. What's not to like ? Except the part when the dutiful wife brings out the desert and asks if you want to make some ancient murdered guy your lord and savior. Leave me with my poor atheist friends eating pringles, please.

[@rembrandt972ify]

@@onedaya_martian1238 But I like Pringles.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

@@rembrandt972ify Me too !

[@cnault3244]

@@rembrandt972ify Pringles are an example of something that was intelligently designed.

[@devinlyne199]

@@cnault3244 ?

[@TheNinthGeneration1]

Every time I see theists arguing for the existence of their specific god, they only ever go as far as “well if a god could theoretically exist, that’s explicit proof that my specific one exists and that all others are false”, almost as if god is the name of their deity, rather than a title for a class of being with power over reality. This is the biggest pitfall that every theist hits, you aren’t proving the possibility of any god, you’re proving the existence of your specific god. It’s most obvious in the “something or nothing” question, they only ever allow that the something is personal and intelligent and a being, when it could just as easily be a non-personal, non-intelligent, non-being that is still a thing. That’s the fundamental flaw of theism, a cause can be anything.

[@beany69]

Christian: "What made the big bang? Nothing, that means it didn't exist! " Atheist: "What made God, then?" Christian: 👁👄👁

[@dryfox11]

“hE’s EtErNaL tHoUgH!!1!!1”

[@flix3284]

i have an answer to that if you'r interested with proof

[@ornerybeefalo8387]

@@flix3284 provide away

[@flix3284]

@@ornerybeefalo8387 so in the sikh scripture the guru granth sahib ji (i'll explain a little what it actually is, so there were messengers what we call gurus and there were 10 gurus god would send them words and they would write it down and ultimately the guru granth sahib ji were created) these words are not false at all if you would want me to elaborate i could. in those words it says 'karta purakh' which means god created everything and he had created himself. ultimately noone created him and he has existed before time itself and when there was nothing. i hope this helps and i would like you to do some reserch please dont look away from god without experiencing him and having a chat with him, all mental and physical problems will remain no more. hope this helps.

[@ornerybeefalo8387]

@@flix3284 how can god create itself if it needed to have existed in order to be able to create itself?

[@mreeeeeegf]

I always love apologists casually jumping to the wildest conclusions. "If there was something, rather than nothing, it mustve been outside of the natural world, and powerful, and smart, and personal" Dude calm down, wtf

[@angrytoaster5974]

You summed up Christianity (well most of it) perfectly!

[@angrytoaster5974]

@Rawlings Rawlings ignorantly writes: “You don’t know what you’re talking about.” 1) You don’t have to copy and paste the same thing twice. (I get pinged either way ;) ) 2) I am fully aware that the universe has some sort of beginning, seeing as the Steady State theory has been disproven, but that is not the part in which the commenter is referring to. They are referring to the notion that it was made by something, “powerful, and smart, and personal.” That, in fact, is the conclusion that people jump to to ‘prove’ the existence of god. My sincerest apologies, but it seems that, “You don’t know what you’re talking about.” It also seems you deserve the title, “dummy,” not me, contrary to your conclusion. 3) I’m not sure what’s going on with your second sentence. You have either two noun-markers next to each other or have ‘a’ as a classification. In the first case, “priori,” should be capitalized and ‘a’ doesn’t belong. In the second, you would capitalize both and possibly add a hyphen if needed. 4) Even a dummy should know not to be annoying, so I guess I’ll have to demote you to, “ignoramus,” instead! 5) Have a nice life knowing that an atheist, out there somewhere, corrected your grammar. (:

[@angrytoaster5974]

@Rawlings kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipjMpJieqqyCr7s 1) I was referring to your original post against the creator of the original comment. You literally just copy and pasted it to reply to me, save for the introduction (which I happily mocked). You get pinged for every comment in the comment chain you’re in. 2) Thank you for teaching me a new word and grammatical rule! Really, I quite enjoy learning. I will admit I have been correct, but I also will admit that that wasn’t my main argument. Now that the grammar has been established, let’s move on to the main point. Theism vs Atheism, in this context. Actually, let’s talk first about a specific word chose to insult me with :). You used an accented version of, what I will only refer to as, the ‘r word.’ That word has years of mental torment attached to it and many people who are defined by the actual definition are smarter than you. I never once referred to you in a slur or curse. I don’t need violent words to describe what you are because my brain has a big enough capacity to be anything more than apathetic about others. 3) I decided to educate myself on, “The Five Reasons,” by watching a video (as linked above). The, in your words, “bulletproof,” argument is disproven by itself. If you believe it is not adequately explained in the video, please feel free to give a source you think best describes it! 4) I am willing to give you my definition, no problem, but I can’t guarantee it will be the same as yours. I would define God as someone who is believed to, by certain religions, have created or started time, the universe, and/or the beginning of everything. Someone who is said to be omniscient and all powerful. I also find your rendition of atheists as a whole ignorant. I just debunked it. Not all atheists are the same, and all of us may have differing reasons for our beliefs or lack here of. I, myself, for example, don’t believe in God, a god, or many gods, because many of the arguments originally made to share the idea that God(s) is/are real have been proven false by new scientific discoveries. I understand what God is believed to by, and I am, as shown, willing to define God. I just also recognize the fact that there is science, evolution, and physically proven things. I believe that whoever wants to believe in God(s) can, but that it’s not okay to force that belief on others. Forcing beliefs is what many apologists do. Contrary to the stated half-baked insult, I’m not illiterate, but right now I kind of wish I was. At least I wouldn’t be subject to your obtuse, ignorant insensibility.

[@angrytoaster5974]

@Rawlings If you could read properly, you would be able to tell that I do, in fact, take criticism ;). I enjoy it, especially when it teaches me something new, because I’m not ignorant nor stupid. You, of all people, wouldn’t be able to tell who has a more than half a brain, since you, obviously, don’t know what it’s like. I sincerely apologize to all the people in your life being forced to deal with you.

[@martindizlindahl3649]

Man, Rawlings you're just a fully fledged ashole brother. Maybe that God of yours could grant you some of the kindness you lot preach to everyone else.

[@NullStaticVoid]

A coworker at an old job was aghast to find out I was an atheist. She asked me how do people refrain from raping, robbing and murdering at will without a god in heaven to show them the way. So I asked her, is the only reason you aren't doing these things because you are afraid of god? She didn't bring it up again.

[@markgallagher1790]

That is the best shutdown I've seen M in years

[@seth5143]

Yeah, most of them use that same line of argumentation too. Pretty telling isn't it? I try to stay the fuck away from them for that reason because I don't want to be around them if/when they suddenly decide they don't believe in Christianity anymore and all bets are off. They're ticking time bombs.

[@oftenwrongphong]

One of my best friends (very religious baptist) confided that the fear of being caught is the only thing preventing his lovely wife from doing "bad" things and that she lacks empathy for others. He wondered if she'll ever see the light. I had to tell him she'll never see it, since 1 in 24 of us lack a conscience, according to what I've read. Just gotta accept it and be glad that she's afraid. Yeah, the deterrent (being religion or law) is necessary for some.

[@afqwa423]

It's a witticism I hear a lot and one I don't really care for, even as an anti-religious anti-theist who despises all forms of religion and superstition. I can't relate to whether or not Christians or other theists are driven by fear of God or hell or whatever. I've _heard_ this is true. And it seems like it's the reason they go door to door to "save souls." But it's not something I can see very directly nor have experienced for myself. But when a theist asks the whole rape/murder/pillaging question, what it does do is confirm my low opinion of their thoughtfulness, imagination and empathy. It tells me, in short, that they're blitheringly unintelligent and arrogant and that they never took a moment to consider alternative hypotheticals before opening their mouth to air their opinion. The emotion I feel here is _contempt._ And that word alone does not begin to describe the hatred I feel. Nobody who asks this question has any business posturing about their morality. Their morals are that of a dog's. These are people who spread conspiracy theories and persecute minorities because their in-group has patted them on the head or beaten them to encourage their behavior. I'm not taking shit from a person who can hardly be considered sapient. Thinking is a skill that can be developed, like any other. It's something you must do because you have to live with yourself and by yourself in your head. It takes no special equipment and takes no money. There are no excuses not to develop that skill. If you don't see me murdering, pillaging and raping but still feel the need to ask what stops me from doing so, then you have deep problems as a human being.

[@Calcanthite]

“If you need a god to tell you not to do those things, you were never a good person to begin with” was a sentiment I heard when someone I knew was confronted with the same question

[@Krikenemp18]

So if a tree falls on Koukl's house, he assumes a person knocked it down because the tree can't have knocked itself down? That's stupid. This guy has a masters?

[@Chris-hf2sl]

"This guy has a masters?" Only from the "university" that he founded and at which he appointed himself as a professor.

[@iamdivan7368]

"if one version provides an explanation for something, and the other doesn't - then the first one is better" So what I'm getting here is that if you are asked "What did your Neighbour have for breakfast?" The answer "He was sniffing unicorn horn dust" is better than "I don't know" Yeah, sure dude

[@ladygeneveve3805]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 if the punishment for lying is being tortured for all eternity then the person deciding the punishments is a horrible monster.

[@VPshandlewasstolen]

"he was sniffing unicorn horn dust" 💀💀💀💀💀 i can't dude, take my like

[@FallenQueenOfCrows]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 If hatred towards someone sends you to hell Im pretty sure the entire earth is doomed

[@naturessacrifice8265]

@@FallenQueenOfCrows Hell that guy you're replying to is speed running the "break every rule of the Bible about spreading the word of God" category. He's judging everyone, he's a hateful prick and is incredibly loud.

[@miguelmackay4851]

Bc obviously an explanation that explains everything is better than admitting you don’t know jack sht 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Ciurk]

I love that the mind's eye argument implies that people with aphantasia like me don't have souls and everyone else does

[@marknieuweboer8099]

Yeah - while nobody else has a soul either.

[@nangsanbhalangblah333]

Like the blanks from warhammer

[@alexfrost2799]

@@nangsanbhalangblah333 difference between Warhammer and real life: in Warhammer there is undeniable proof that the soul exists and it affects how humans operate. The soul (or lack thereof) affects things other than humans. It is actually tangible. No such thing has happened as of yet in real life. In reality, a person's feelings or bodily reaction are often mistaken as 'feeling with your soul'. We simply do not know enough to clarify whether a soul is an actual thing or just a construct created by religion. Hence why atheism is a thing now but is virtually extinct in 40k (among humans that is). A lack of concrete proof is typically why atheism exists.

[@Aiden-qo8op]

@@alexfrost2799it’s a game, it doesn’t show what would truly happen if people didn’t have souls

[@alexfrost2799]

@@Aiden-qo8op in-universe, it actually does show the difference between someone with a soul and without one. The point here is that there is no such evidence to prove souls exist in real life. Clearly you didn't understand the point of my comment.

[@JohannRosario1]

*There should be legal consequences for using the word UNIVERSITY without accreditation or authority, the same way a person is not allowed to use the word DOCTOR or claim to officially be an ENGINEER, when they are not.*

[@heckingbamboozled8097]

@@MikeRFrazier What a pointless reply

[@jeremysmith4620]

For a low, low price I'd love you to join Commenter's University (not nationally accredited) where you too can earn your Master's Degree in Postology or even your Doctorate in True Crime Criminal Justice through our exclusive "do your own research" system where you can simply watch a few quick videos to become an authority on anything.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@MikeRFrazier There are only consequences for graduates of Pedantry University.

[@garethbaus5471]

Given how it can sometimes be used in attempt to create I illusion of credibility and promote misinformation in cases like Prager U I can definitely understand why that would be justified.

[@garethbaus5471]

@@MikeRFrazier I mean non factual or diliberatly distorted claims used to manipulate people.

[@Poretoz]

As a Swede hearing "atheists can't be happy" is one of the funniest arguments I've heard. Sweden is almost always at least top 10 in both happiest countries, and least religious countries at the same time. And this there are actually sources for, contrary to the "atheists can't be happy". It's just amusing how much one can lie to themselves for it to actually ultimately sound true.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

What Kouklekou means is that if you were consistent you'd not be happy. For a few reasons that's even worse.

[@l.n.3372]

My evangelical aunt once told me that guns prevent gun violence. I told her then why does America have the most gun violence while countries in Scandinavia do not

[@OtakuJuanma2]

I kinda love the fact he says that if you're an atheist or don't believe in god, you'll have an existential crisis. It's true, many people do have those sorts of crisis, but that is a point AGAINST religion as I understand it. If humans are prone to feeling insignificant, to having crisis because of that, it means they'd be logically prone to collectively make up a divinity that makes us feel special.

[@OtakuJuanma2]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Ok.... So are you going to make a point for or against what I said? Because your reply as it stands is just "hi, I'm a Christian. Period"

[@AidanDaGreat]

Sorry about him. Please don’t judge us based on that vocal minority. Also, dude , if you talk about what you believe in such a manner; people will automatically assume that we are jerks that don’t accept reason. Talking to John, not the original poster

[@jungtothehuimang]

Could not agree more

[@OtakuJuanma2]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 "I've seen heaven and hell" Suuuuute you have.... If people could actually see faith locations like that, there wouldn't be a doubt. Also, it can't be "personal" if we're talking about the creation of a religions. That will always be a massive group, either coming up with a religion out of nowhere, or a higher power addressing them millenia ago. It can't be personal.

[@AidanDaGreat]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Aye, mate, I'm a Christian. Please actually talk to me instead of copy and paste. I wanna chat,

[@rickgrivera]

I literally shouted out "Holy S***!" in disbelief when he casually said "This is why we can gas termites but not...". I cannot with this version of Christianity.

[@Killer_Kotomibro]

Seriously, that was just zero to WHOA in 2.5 seconds. Kind of tips his hand too because the only way someone could equate the two is a disregard for the worth of anyone not in his own in group on the level of seeing non-christians as less than human. Creepy.

[@julietfischer5056]

I heard a 'j' just before he was cut off. Is Koukl a Holocaust denier in the bargain?

[@rickgrivera]

@@Killer_Kotomibro And it's the same danged God is the thing! And yet still you get the Blood Libel and centuries of hatred. Mind boggling.

[@M4x1m1l14nn]

@@rickgrivera Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Danton, Lenin, Sanger, Than Shwe, Chávez, Stalin, Zemin, Mengele, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Ceausescu, Honecker, Castro, Pol Pot, Broz Tito, Milosevic, Maduro, Xi Jingping and Mussolini oppressive, sadistic, democidal atheists who, collectively, murdered hundreds of millions of helpless men, women and little children? #AtheistChinaLiedAndPeopleDied

[@rickgrivera]

@@M4x1m1l14nn I... don't see how that's relevant to the fact that Greg Koukl-a Christian apologist and person whose theology one is presumably supposed to emulate-basically just asked why it wasn't OK to exterminate certain people. Specifically a group of historically oppressed people who barely survived a genocide. Are you one of those folks who troll youtube comments that don't agree with your worldview with whataboutism and other derailing tactics? I mean, you do you, but there are better hobbies.

[@Marshemillow]

I'm particularly appalled by the, _"Maybe we feel guilty because we ARE guilty."_ We can, in fact, feel guilty even if we haven't done anything wrong!! It is so fucking dangerous to spread that message to people who might have guilt forced onto them from abusive codependency or something similar. "Objective morality" my ass.

[@Marshemillow]

@Puer Mortem That is unfortunately exactly true. Trust me, as an ex-cult member, I'm all too familiar with the cycle of using misplaced guilt to suck people back in. I guess I just wish moderate christians understood this instead of continuously trying to defend the human-made perpetuator of their abuse.

[@zer0iam]

actually also the oposite of your claim is also posible, someone can be guilty but feel no guilt at all, as there are scammers or serial killers who can do the most terrible things on another person yet feel no remorse on their actions

[@Lordpeyre]

Good point!!

[@angryatheist]

Objectively speaking even murder can be permissible ( bin ladens death) , I’m not American but I cheered , my point is there is no objective morality it’s all societal rationalism

[@ThePotatoSapien]

His whole argument around “objective morality” just annoyed me. I don’t believe there are ANY objective moral rules, and anyone who claims otherwise will need to give some real good reasons for it. The only reason why humans SEEM to share objective morals is because we evolved to be that way. That doesn’t mean that “thou shall not kill” is an objective universal, it just means that, GENERALLY, we evolved to have a strong pack instinct, and you can’t cooperate to hunt for food if everyone keeps murdering everyone else! Murder wasn’t always illegal, and murder wasn’t always frowned upon. It’s just that, THESE days, we tend to not lie it, so we’ve constructed our laws around that general instinct to ostracize people that could potentially destabilize the trust of our troop. Nothing more, nothing less. If a different species ever becomes intelligent to form laws, or if there is already a species with a type of “moral code”, they might consider murder completely differently from us! Also, that’s just such a horrible thing to say to anyone. Again, with evolution throwing us under the bus, but social anxiety and imposter syndrome come from our instinct to “fit in” with the group. We NEED validation for others, and we NEED to be able to trust people. The problem is that some people can be awful, and those people will hurt you, even if you trust them. But your instincts tell you they should be trusted, especially if they’re one of the only people you CAN rely on, so, in an effort to keep mutual trust going, your brain decides that it’s your fault. Because sometimes learning that someone can’t be trusted hurts more than thinking it’s something you did. But saying things like this don’t help. They just reaffirm the brain’s unhealthy coping mechanisms and hinder the process to having healthy relationships. I feel terrible for anyone who is stuck listening to this guy, because he could do some real damage.

[@worldlinezero4783]

I love how his argument about consciousness implies that people with Aphantasia don't have souls

[@CharleyA73]

I find the “if there’s a knock, there must be a knocker” argument so funny - like can you imagine this dude being on edge 24/7 because every time the house creaks he thinks there’s literally someone tiptoeing about upstairs and knocking shit over for funsies

[@einarabelc5]

I don't know what's more stupid, the assumption that other people are that stupid or the stupidity of thinking that makes us smart.

[@Aziara86]

I know, right? Tell me you've never lived in an old house without telling me you've never lived in an old house. Damn things creak and knock constantly.

[@impartialthrone2097]

My immediate though was that he only compares the big bang to things directly caused by the actions of a living organism. He doesn't compare it to a thunderstorm and say "ah-hah! The thunder must have a thunderer," because thunder is a completely understood natural phenomenon and it wouldn't serve his narrative.

[@medexamtoolscom]

Or as I have found out in the last few days, if there's a fedex courier, there's NO damn knock on the door or ring on the doorbell. They will just silently leave it in front of your door even if you're home so that it gets stolen. Fuck fedex. I certainly wish there were more knocks.

[@KeithLivingston]

@@impartialthrone2097 the wind must have had a 'winder'. That's why I'm in favor of changing some of the wording when I talk about these things. It makes it more difficult to personify, or create an anthropomorphism, or attribute intent to something. Instead of saying 'creation', maybe we should use something such as "came into being". "If the universe came into being, it must have had a 'came into beinger'."

[@crimxe]

"How do you atheists sleep at night?" Me: Peacefully.

[@floppa_gamer1111]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 So your saying that im going to be punished for not believeing in a non provible thing. bullshit detecter off the charts

[@floppa_gamer1111]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 and a real god would not make a infinite punishment for a finite crime

[@crimxe]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 If God/Jesus were good people, they wouldn't send good people who respect other beliefs to hell just because they aren't Christian.

[@floppa_gamer1111]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 then why did god make humans without a way to prove god OR make evil in the first place also "Hell is simply a place where you are separated from God so you are separated from everything that is good ,things we take for granted like the ability to breathe, rest or have our feet planted on the floor." so does that make jumping unholy or going to space a sin?

[@floppa_gamer1111]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 stop

[@VirtualBilly]

Science teacher: “This is what we know, because these are the things we’ve observed. Let me show you.” Religion teacher: “Just trust me, if you don’t believe what I tell you then you’ll burn forever!”

[@nicogarcia6003]

Praise the lord! King of Kings, Jesus Christ!

[@bruhbwoi3618]

@Dmitry Shilin but we do know all that stuff about life... and eventually we will know that stuff about quantum physics. In the past 100ish years we've gone from not having lightbulbs to having a probe over 14 billion miles away from earth. We are actually making progress with science. How much progress has religion made in the past 50,000 years? Zero. In maybe even 50 years we might even think quantum mechanics is simple compared to what new shit we've discovered.

[@cagedgandalf3472]

@@bruhbwoi3618 What he's trying to say is religion explains everything simply that's why it's true the good old occam's razor. What he's forgetting is that when a being just abracadbra the universe into existence, raises more questions than answers. Especially if this being that created the observable universe with billions of planets, cares so much about what you do while naked, who you're sleeping with and in what position.

[@cagedgandalf3472]

@Dmitry Shilin Religion teacher: Humans were made by blowing the "breath of life" into dirt. The universe was made by saying let there be a universe/light. Woman turns to a pillar of salt. Diseases is a curse from witches/God. Natural disasters is because of God being angry because of gay people and blasphemy. What's that? Are you saying magic is difficult to explain? Please have faith. Science teacher: *Don't fall for the argument from incredulity kids* It's fine if you don't trust science, reality is difficult to understand.

[@rocksfire4390]

@Dmitry Shilin correlation =/= causation. they are "christian's" because that's how they had been raised. yes i put christian's in quotations on purpose because if they were actual christian's (followed the book as is written) they would have to have a split personality to be able to function properly. science and religion are entirely opposites, one makes claims and proves that they are right and the other just makes claims with no proof and expects you to take it as a matter of fact. one is factual and the other is fictional.

[@Borealis_Astro]

In my opinion the way we tell bad from good is pretty basic. Pain = bad. We don’t like pain. When we see others in pain that’s bad. So doing actions that hurt others is inherently bad to us BECAUSE we have the innate reaction to avoid pain

[@unknowngod8221]

and also why religion tell people to be morally goods and cause less suffering to your fellow mans or woman pains is why we advance to not struggle to survive on this planet literally is in our DNA and every single animal ever

[@sbushido5547]

"We're the ultimate unplanned pregnancy!" I honestly feel sorry for anyone born under those circumstances in his audience. People don't have less worth just because their conception was an accident, Greg. Nor does the universe have less worth just because there was no magic man pulling levers behind the curtain.

[@estinsidebottom]

And Even If There *Were* A Magic Man Pulling The Levers Behind The Curtain. How Would That Make The Universe Valuable? What Difference Does It Make? And Do They Not Find The Idea Of Your Purpose Being Decided For You Before You're Even Born Depressing/Dystopian? There's Just So Much Wrong With All Of It.

[@eragon78]

@@estinsidebottom Honestly, it would make it less valuable, because instead of being able to make your own decisions in life, you would be forced to adhere to his whims or you would be punished for all eternity. Your "meaning" in life would only be what that magic man has deemed acceptable for you, and you would be forced to live his wishes without being allowed to forge your own path as doing so would condemn you for all eternity. I find life much more meaningful since I can determine my own values and desires.

[@user-s3ts8my2x]

People value "value" and "meaning" too much

[@frenchtoast2319]

Pro life, right?

[@sardonicus1739]

@@estinsidebottom To me there being a god would make life and humans have less value inherently. Life would be less valuable because their belief in an afterlife makes this world just a tiny drop of water in eternity. Where if you're atheist this is likely your only life which makes every second precious because you know there isn't an eternity to live after your death, and this is it. I noticed atheists tend to value life more, where Christians tend to be caviler about death and killing people because they think, "God will sort it out." According to Chrstianity our entire existence was made so that God has someone to worship and praise them, and when you go to heaven you spend the rest of eternity endlessly praising god according to what it says in the bible about what happens in heaven, so your entire existence is basically just a tool to use for an egomaniacal being to feel good about itself by having some outside source say how amazing it is uncritically, and convert others to say the same. With atheism you're not trapped in that way. You create your own purpose and meaning which is usually a bit more satisfying than, "your purpose is to praise god." You can make your purpose to help make the world a better place for future generations instead or something like that which is a more productive purpose.

[@canadaoi6005]

My favorite part of this was when he said we saw our mom in our soul. As someone who is unable to imagine things, he's just proven I have no soul. Love it. His examples are far too easily disproven to be useful in actual discourse.

[@-._.-KRiS-._.-]

And what happens to a person who goes brain dead for a minute before being resuscitated? Did they lose their soul for a minute? Does it comes back? If it doesn't, are they screwed for the rest of eternity?

[@joshuaa7266]

@@-._.-KRiS-._.- Pretty sure a lot of Christians believe the soul temporarily leaves the body, hence stories of visiting heaven. Exceptions like souls failing to return to a living body or people being born without souls probably just don't exist in their concept.

[@finx1582]

I can picture things in my mind's eye and hear songs in my head, but I can't willingly conjure up a smell, taste, or physical sensation. Do I get part of a soul or what? lol

[@songcramp66]

Wait, how can you not imagine things? That's possible? How can you plan for the future in that case?

[@rinny0386]

@@songcramp66 ikr I have a hard time understanding it but it's called aphantasia and my best friend has it. She thinks in words, concepts, and other non-visual things. Sometimes it hinders her creatively but she always has a work-around and she's still a very hands-on crafter. I however am a very visually imaginative person. All 5 senses and sometimes trippy stuff beyond them, vivid detail. But I consistently find her to be more well-rounded, considerate, and optimistic than me. We're both christian-raised atheists, though her christian upbringing was much more rigid than mine. I wonder... why would she not have a soul but I would?

[@cross8642]

On his point about guilt. “We feel guilty because we are guilty.” As a child (11 YO) in school I took part in a protest where after lunch, or recess for Americans, we refused to go back to class because the teachers after a child got hurt decided balls sports were no longer allowed. We had organised a sit down protest. As you can imagen the teachers were not happy. Long story short they didn’t tell our parents about this incident however they made us feel we had done something terrible. I thought we had done something really wrong and felt incredibly guilty. As an adult I now realise I did nothing wrong and feel proud that I stood up to authority. His argument about feeling guilty because I am guilty dose not work here because guilt is subjective. Something I felt guilty about at the time I am now proud I did. If anyone is wondering the protest worked because a few weeks later we were aloud to play ball sports again.

[@Demopans5990]

And that my friend, is how the CCP holds on to power. In order to enforce compliance, they don't need gulags, they just publicly shame. JWs use the same playbook, as do many others.

[@davidnichol4735]

It's called gaslighting. Strangely enough, it tends to get a pass where most other forms of psychological abuse don't.

[@TurinofDoriath]

Guilt is subjective based on time and place. To imagine guilt as an immutable state that is static across all time is infantile thinking.

[@lususnaturae881]

@@Demopans5990 "JWs use the same playbook" Except he was talking about gaslighting, you're talking about people receiving consequences for their actions. And the CCP does not act like """JWs"""", they murder the opposite, not call them out for their bullshit. Americans...

[@CoronaryArteryDisease.]

Cool story! I know for me there are a number of things that I was told to feel guilty about that now I am proud of doing as well.

[@frankmalenfant2828]

He reminds me of some guy I know with which it's always impossible to have a conversation about any topic because he's not in that conversation with me, he's talking to a stereotype he projected on me, and I can't wiggle myself out of his reductive perception of who I am. This is dehumanizing, and we all know people who fail to see other humans as real people walk a very slippery slope.

[@Lowraith]

_"If Koukl wants to educate his audience on how to have real, productive conversations with atheists, he should listen to what atheists have to say about the claims he and other apologists make about us."_ But that's his secret: His "class" *isn't* about "teaching you how to engage with and defeat/convince an atheist" - It's reinforcing indoctrination to make the Christian student more resistant to the logical/reasonable arguments and counter-arguments the atheist is likely to bring to bear in response to their evangelism.

[@PopeGoliath]

This. Nobody's going to go out and convert more atheists after watching the course. The course exists as loss prevention for existing believers. It teaches them the mental gymnastics they need to dodge reason and logic and stay safe in their beliefs.

[@EskChan19]

Pretty much. It's just so that the christian student will say"Hah, typical atheist" when they debunk his watchmaker/carmaker/citybuilder/doorknocker/whateverthef analogy for the millionth time.

[@BlackEyedGhost0]

I once made the mistake of thinking apologists are attempting to use knowledge about reality to defend the reality of God. So long story short I'm a steadfast atheist now.

[@somethinginthepines]

Yup, as someone with a christian fundie for a father its literally all to confirm your own biases. I'm not even an atheist (not a christian either), his arguments just dont work.

[@IndigoWhiskey]

once you establish you have a nutterbutter who gets off on being confrontational just laugh at their beliefs to their face, as much histerics as you can manage with the wheezing short crazy rephrasing of what they say they believe as occasional punctuation to more laughing. apparently theyre that simple and cant cope emotionally with this. i had to forcebly regenerate my schadenfreude to pull it off but worth, so worth. yes i appreciate the want to get along but with the willingly at war on the subject you will never manage this untill you defeat that self assured confidence. have a nice day

[@nikk-named]

What this video has taught me, is admitting to not knowing something is the greatest weapon you have in conversation in general.

[@haudace]

Trust me - it doesn't work if your interlocutor has no critical thinking and has no interest in constructive conversation. To some people, "I don't know" is an admission of defeat.

[@MonkeBrain07]

@@haudace Which is sad because I consider admitting that we don't know something is the highest level of wisdom one can achieve.

[@nenmaster5218]

@@haudace Professor Dave Explains and Telltale do the Best Cult-Coverage on YT. They’re well worth checking out. But if we expand this to the blood-related Issue of Anti-Science and Science-Denial, not only Professor Dave coverin Frauds and Quacks but many Others come to mind that i wanna warmly invite you to watch: Sci Man Dan, Prophet of Zod, Hbomberguy, UpisnotJump.

[@Manimmut]

i have a friend that whenever i say i dont know to a Question says: why cant you never give a good answer?

[@nikk-named]

@@Manimmut yeah I hate when people do that...

[@ProbablyEzra]

The worst part of the soul argument, he makes it sound like people who can't hear, or can't see, or otherwise don't have a sense are missing a part of their soul and I cannot begin to imagine the amount of harm that idea has caused and will cause.

[@johnnym3071]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363Everyone knows only Mormons get into heaven

[@wesnohathas1993]

That point definitely won't get across for anyone with aphantasia either.

[@F0rgetful_Gh0st]

Honestly if I would have been told something like that a year ago I would have been sent into spiral of fear thinking I only have a partial soul and was broken

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

They will definitely imply this about anyone who is disabled, neurodivergent, or LGBTQ+. You're made to feel broken or inferior, which is exactly what organized religion wants, because it's easier to manipulate you if you think something is missing that only the church can fulfill.

[@boggless2771]

​@@wesnohathas1993or gingers.... Lol jk. Just ask him to define soul? Then explain to him that he's talking about consiousness. And then have him explain why my dog isn't consious. Then my cat, then this gold fish. And then a worm. Then ChatGPT.

[@Omneyvdwatering]

I'm one of those atheists who's totally fine with being completely insignificant in the bigger scheme of things. I'm less than a speck of sand in the desert and that's fine. I'm a walking meatsuit, blundering through life, trying to make the best of it. and that's totally fine. There are a lot of things my answer to will be " I don't know" and that's fine. I'm not special, and that's fine :)

[@marknieuweboer8099]

It's lovely that Kouklekou the christian preached humility and you practise it.

[@ceptemzorpus]

I think humans define meaning. We can't be meaningless because meaning is inherently human. No matter how big a star is, what "meaning" does it actually have? Humans are smaller than a speck of sand according to who? Humans define meaning and are the ones that perceived, not a big cloud of hot gas.

[@wizarding4]

“The bing bang needs a big banger!” Or in other terms, “what made the Big Bang?” My response: “Well what made god?” “He’s eternal, so I don’t have to use logic or reason to defend myself.” “But I do?” It’s a two way street buddy.

[@sapphicsapphire82]

Seriously! I’ve thought about this a lot. Assuming the Christian god exists, where did he come from??

[@leguanpercy4961]

@@sapphicsapphire82 he is omnipresent and has no beginning or end, according to christians.

[@granienasniadanie8322]

@@leguanpercy4961 But universe had to be created, kinda hypocritical.

[@logangustavson]

Why does the universe have to be created? If you grant the Christain God didn't need to be created, then why must the universe have to been created? Its silly that some Christians point at the supposed absurdity of believing that the universe didn't need to be created but see nothing wrong with the idea of God not needing to be created.

[@granienasniadanie8322]

@@logangustavson because it would have ran out of fuel by now, but it doesn't mean there's a god.

[@BurdieFromHell]

This guy would be so aggravating to debate with. He is the kinda guy who would close his ears, aggressively state his points, and then declare himself the winner because he couldn't make sense of the other sides points.

[@BurdieFromHell]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 No thanks, I'd rather not buy into dogma. I'm a registered member of The Satanic Temple...

[@alexandermaxcanjuga3368]

Yeah like all parents

[@deleuseneto7882]

In my country, we would call him a chess-player pigeon. He would ignore the rules, throw pieces in disarry and fly away thinking he won. I treat them as pigeons and avoid playing chess with one.

[@benlap1977]

Lol! Yep, that's often the case with people like him. They spout some huge multilayered nonsense so grotesque and self evidrntly false there's no possible comeback... and then see the silence of their "opponent" (cause they're interested in winning, not learning) as a victory, when in fact they demonstrated to everyone around how much of a douche they are, but everyone is too polite to say it out loud.

[@wayward5219]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363STOP IT

[@cleverwitticismhere6922]

Wish I could say I heard something new here, but I can't. This is why I don't have religious debates anymore. I've refuted all this stuff a thousand times. If hell exists, it'll be me debating apologists for eternity while they refuse to further the conversation.

[@Steven-ki9sk]

The Christian professor got his degrees from a apologist diploma mill and the quality of his course reflects this. No one with a masters degree in philosophy from a real university would make such siIIy arguments

[@KopitioBozynski]

Sadly there are some that do but they're smart enough and payed enough attention to their classes that they can say it without coming out and saying it.

[@FelisImpurrator]

I mean, the degree is in Christian Apologetics. The clown shoes and nose are pretty much the first thing you see here.

[@philmcgee4591]

Very many high school kids can refute this

[@Daneelro]

But the basic issue is not the quality of his course. What we atheists need to understand is that most apologists never intended to confront our actual ideas: their real goal is to retain the faith of their followers and themselves in the face of the arguments and the very existence of atheists. For that, you do not need to engage with the actual arguments, because faith is fundamentally irrational, and to achieve the goal of protecting people's faith, it is enough to appeal to the irrational roots of their co-religionists. Sadly, I think Greg Koukl's apologist diploma was apt for his goals.

[@user-il9ze9py8c]

He got a degree to try to rationalize an irrational belief. You can't disprove a christian god any more than you can a hindu god. Doesn't mean either of them exist. He started with a conclusion and argues in loops and circles to support it. With zero evidence he still believes it, and if you aren't capable of letting go of a belief no matter how little evidence there is to prove it, you're not thinking about it rationally.

[@gatorboymike]

Christians: "We can explain everything." Also Christians: *don't explain anything*

[@gatorboymike]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Actually, the one word that sums up the Bible is Trump. Or murder. Or retarded. Those are synonyms.

[@muchotexto4248]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Okay so, God microwaved a guy to discharge his wrath (a sin) so we can pay for our mistakes (that he allowed to happen because he made us in a way where we mistake) our mistakes being common feelings created by our enviornment and your source is that we don't own the truth and therefore you do

[@muchotexto4248]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 ah. who created crime though?

[@nebula_unauthorized3093]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 all that sounds cultlike and controlling

[@wontcreep]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 the eternal fire, idea of neverending, infinite torture, you are telling me is justice what exactly is justice to you, listen, this is why i want to go as far away from religious people as possible, there is nothing more immoral than your belief, because infinite torture is beyond the worst fantasy of a sociopath

[@Qzopr1]

All I can say is: No wonder it’s a free course. Had it not been: Every theist who took it, would ask for a refund after the first conversation with an atheist. I liked this approach on your part. You put the time in. Good work.

[@therealatheistexperience7654]

Pay what you get

[@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT]

I am actually surprised that he never placed his content behind a paywall, or charge steep fees to attend a seminar or retreat. That's how successful grifters made easy money in the past. The sunk cost effect alone keeps the marks from facing the reality of mistakes and cutting their losses.

[@piercemchugh4509]

You couldn't pay me to take that course.

[@sfamerken12]

@@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT that's the plan for "lesson" 2.

[@skateboardingjesus4006]

I was expecting him to put in an effort for his apologetics. His "bumps" where nothing more than turds in the road. Juvenile reasoning and stock excuses, used by nearly all Christians. I know it's a free course, but I demand financial recompense.

[@shlokwaghela9560]

It's crazy how these people think that proving the existence of creator somehow proves the validity of a man made religion? Even if there is one, what says it's the Christian god, or any else for that matter?

[@UwOtt]

Because they are crazy

[@LearnAboutFlow]

I always get confused when Christians say, "does God exist?'" because what they REALLY mean is "does their version of God exist?"

[@rdizzy1]

Well yeah, of course, as they believe this is the only god that could or can exist. In their minds/belief system there is only one god within the universe, and it happens to be theirs, lol.

[@LearnAboutFlow]

Also notice when you ask this apologist why is there Covid, why is there famine, why is there disease the answer is suddenly NOT his deity. HMMMMMM

[@moisesrosario9716]

Yeah religión ignore variables like, does god exist now? (existed in the past but not now or Doesn't exist now but Will exist in the future), does god existence it based on an specific religión (includes variables like the true religión existed but nobody Belive now, the true religión hasn't been created yet or There's not true religión because god is not based on religión), does god existence is even something we can interact with on a significant way, does god is actually worth worshiping(like if it even cares or not about worship and if god is good or evil, if There's something we can consider god is even powerfull enough to be consider actually god(like if just is a powerfull being to uncomprensible lovecratian being). This are some variables religious person don't even take in consideration.

[@LearnAboutFlow]

@@moisesrosario9716 Just the idea that a superior being somehow requires worship immediately negates the Christian argument.

[@rdizzy1]

@@LearnAboutFlow Yes, I would believe that any omnipotent, all powerful being would inherently be able to create morally perfect beings if he wanted to, so either A. He isn't all powerful B. He doesn't exist or C. He is a piece of shit and gets off on the suffering of his creations, and purposely created some humans to be "evil". Even if they try to blame it on Satan, God created Satan as well (knowing what he would become beforehand, since he is all knowing)

[@sava-smth]

There's nothing more comforting for me than feeling of my insignificancy on a cosmic scale

[@sava-smth]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 if your god doesn't exist heavens are equally closed for both of us, no matter how hard you pray. And it sure looks like your god doesn't exist, go figure

[@Mariwend]

@@sava-smth Biblical bullshit means nothing to someone who doesn't blatantly believe a book that's been hidden copied and modified over generations. Even if the bible was once an actual divinely inspired grace unto the world, it isn't now.

[@somo4227]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363what is the point of getting into heaven

[@sava-smth]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 define nothing looser

[@sava-smth]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 yeah sweetheart for society to function it needs rules thats why IN SOCIAL SPECIES such as humans these rules evolved)) if they didn't, we wouldn't be social species))0) just as road rules - they weren't implied once and for all, and there were times when there was no rules exept for general hope that drivers will figure it out. And people have been hurt! And because of that, things that cause the most harm, are forbidden! And it isn't stopping everyone from breaking the rules, but it sure stops majority, that is, in a grand scheme of things, good enough for human population not to die out

[@alex_squeezebox]

Reminds me of the Richard Dawkins quote “We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”

[@Alresu]

Thanks, this one gave me a laugh. :)

[@duchstitneho]

"Gods" in which people believed and believe (like Thor, Krishna, etc.) do not meet definition of "God". Philosophicaly speaking, if there's a God, it's only one God.

[@Alresu]

@@duchstitneho Disagreed. There are philosophers that see and saw it that way, but there is no unified opinion. Philosophically speaking we don't know.^^

[@duchstitneho]

@@Alresu if we discard metaphysics, then yes, we can't know

[@Alresu]

​@@duchstitneho Why should we have to discard metaphysics for that?

[@simonmaney3438]

I had a Christian upbringing (good, well meaning parents). I got out of it in my teens, but as a young adult, I tried reconnecting with it. I wanted to explore the possibility, with an open mind, that there was a God. For a while there, I was a fully committed believer, embracing Jesus and God in line with what I had been taught. I remember having a discussion with my brother. As far as I was concerned, everything I said simply proved that there was a God. There was NO convincing me otherwise and I was very chuffed with myself - doing Gods work and all. Eventually I couldn't reconcile the lack of evidence, chronic inconsistencies and self importance of the church. I saw the light, so to speak. Moral of the parable: When you are a believer, no amount of reasoned dialogue makes a difference.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

Are you sure? Because in the end you deconverted. And that's a difference indeed.

[@simonmaney3438]

​@@marknieuweboer8099When I was a 'believer', nothing would convince me otherwise. I was shut off from thinking any differently. God / Jesus was the answer. Eventually I figured things out for myself, no-one convinced me otherwise. It just became obvious that religion is a human construct to satisfy his own needs and desires. [I say 'his', because have you noticed how it is in a man's genes to go down the path of authority that religion lends him? Look at all these internet God boffins. It's laughable... and a bit sad.]

[@marknieuweboer8099]

How do you know that you converted all by yourself and that nobody influenced you? Like at all? In the long run? That's not how the human mind works according to psychology. Actually I suspect that your assertion is a remnant of your christian upbringing. If I'm right it included the antiscientific idea of total mental autonomy of the soul. Of course I immediately believe you that you wouldn't listen to reason but stubbornly stuck to christian dogma. That's not what I dispute. But "eventually couldn't reconcile the evidence" suggests that some of those people díd influence you. Or must we believe that you collected that evidence all by yourself too? If I'm right it took you time to consider evidence presented to you. That's very human. But it negates your conclusion "no amount of reasoned dialogue makes a difference". It merely took time for that difference to manifestate itself. Unless you can demonstrate that the christian theology of the complete independent and autonomous human mind is correct and human psychology isn't.

[@simonmaney3438]

@@marknieuweboer8099 You're missing my point, that I understand what it is like to 'not listen to reason'. It is something that I have experienced and now consider it valuable to my 'assessment' of those under religious influence. - Don't get too hung up on semantics, I'm not a scholar.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

Eeehhh ... I didn't miss your point at all: "I immediately believe you ...". It's your other point I think false: "no amount of reasoned ....". You admitted that you were confronted with reason. You admitted a difference. You deny any correlation between those or your conclusion is incorrect. I'm not hung up on semantics. I'm hung up on rejecting scholarship - in this case psychology - just because. Now I'm not asserting that you do. But you neglecting it is a bad sign. And no, I do not assert that I can change your mind with my attempt at a reasonable approach. But I do hope you'll consider what I wrote, perhaps look up what psychology says. That might make a (small) difference indeed.

[@NDHFilms]

At this point, the story of Jesus might more credible than any of these apologist's "I was at a dinner party with an atheist..." or "I was on a plane next to an atheist" stories.

[@frankwhelan1715]

Don't know, the knock on the door convinced me.

[@qwadratix]

My favourite is 'I used to be an atheist'.

[@stephenk.1997]

And the sad thing is even if the story is true and accurate in every way, so what. That’s one person caught off guard without prepared answers, not all atheists. What if the knock at the door was something else like wind blowing something against it. We can test door knocking hypothesis’s by just opening the door. We can’t yet test universe beginnings because it only happened once as far as we know.

[@MendTheWorld]

How about, “I was in a foxhole next to an atheist?” Nah. It’s not a credible scenario at all.

[@waltonsmith7210]

@MendTheWorld thats exactly the kind of unfalsifiable, anecdotal kind of argument the oc was talking about.Even if it was true,even if every single atheist in a foxhole temporarily became a believer when theyre scared for their life, it still wouldnt prove theres a god. It would be a meaningless data point.

[@Wh1teNoise616]

I saw someone in the comments say “the meaning of life is to serve and have a relationship with god.” If I exist just to serve and make one dude feel happy because he’s lonely all up in the clouds, then I don’t want to exist.

[@mushu_beardie2556]

same here. I don't want to serve some random dude, I want to cure AIDS! I want to make a bacteriophage therapy for tuberculosis! I think that's a way more noble goal than serving god by... *checks notes* being bored in church for 2 hours a week?

[@bobs182]

God is an abstract concept of humanity concretized. Belief in God is placing the concept above humanity itself.

[@c.m.p2943]

The christians teach that "We humans exist to serve god and enjoy him forever ". To serve someone i understand but to enjoy, that i don' t undetstand. Can soneone exlain please.

[@yurisei6732]

@@bobs182Then why does so much of the doctrine of God feature reprehensible text that advocates for harming humanity? Why do so many of the preachers of God advocate for actions that harm humanity? Why are so many of the followers of God so self-obsessed?

[@bobs182]

@@yurisei6732 People have given the concept of God meaning to itself making the concept the source of reality replacing reality itself as fundamental. As for the actions of religious people, they are simply acting out their tribal instincts which have been idealized as God. Followers of God are self-obsessed because God is a projection of themselves including their tribal group identity as humans are highly social/tribal. Tribes are us/them with the others known as heathens, pagans, heretics, blasphemers who deserve eternal torment for not joining them. The function of religion is as a tribal group identity/mythology in which adherents strongly identify and incorporate into themselves as part of their tribal instincts.

[@megantunila1444]

"Maybe we feel guilty because we are guilty." is one of the ideas that really turned me away from Christianity. I have anxiety. I feel guilty about everything because my brain chemicals are imbalanced... I am not actually guilty...

[@krizilloo2538]

We all say things that hurt other people, sometimes to the core. We all neglect to handle people with care, especially those closest to us. One careless sentence can plunge another into a downward, life-wrecking spiral, causing a ripple effect along the way. Here our guilt is justified. One example of the dark things humans do. Meanwhile, I hope you are able to get help for your brain issue. Feeling unjustified guilt all the time sounds exhausting.

[@ChristianF15cher]

That’s how cults work. They break you down so that you can be more easily manipulated.

[@jlettizard6465]

@@ChristianF15cher yes, that’s what cults do. Christianity doesn’t do that though. We are all sinners, yes. All guilty in the face of God. But Jesus came and died for our sins so that, if we believe in Him, we should die to our sins and be reborn in the spirit rather than the flesh and have eternal life. Having accepted Christ, anxiety, stress, hate, bitterness, and the like are replaced with peace, love, patience, and strength. Cults take Christianity and distort it. It’s man-made making it man-centered. Being made by man, it’s flawed like man.

[@Nomusicincluded]

@@jlettizard6465 Except this is untrue. Christianity does do exactly that. Claiming that accepting christ will change negative emotion to positive is the exact gaslighting you claim your religion doesn't do. It forces people who continue to feel negative emotion to question their faith and thus perpetuates continue self doubt and negativity. You post on here with such confidence yet everything you've said is exactly what every cult member would claim. If it walks like a snakeoil salesman and talks like a snakeoil salesman... p.s. your no true scotsman is also tiresome

[@Ealsante]

Consider *why* they always want you to feel guilty. It's because guilty people are, on the whole, obedient people. Who should they be obeying? Well, the people who put the guilt on them, of course.

[@TheFinius]

I admire your ability to listen to this without banging your head on a while and make rational argument return without sounding frustrated.

[@dem4christ04]

The most honest answer is "I don't know". Well done.

[@charliepershall5956]

Christian's Basic Principles Are Deceit How is it that you successfully deceive those in other nations to worship your Imaginary Mythical Fantasy Gods? And then go to war for the nation you worship. And kill those members of your own churches? The Basic Of Justice It is do unto others as you would like to be done unto you. The Basic Principle Of Christianity It is deceitful and far from Justice. To sentence and executing an innocent man for the crime of all humanity. What Honest person would let your neighbor be executed for your own crime? Evidently a Christian would. However, you all will face your own consequences, for your corruption and crime. You will not pin it on an innocent man. You all will harvest what you plant. And Christianity also promote Cannibalism by a ritual that they pretend they are eating Jesus's flesh and drinking his blood. The Great Creator performs Justice. You all will face your own consequences for your corruption and crimes. You will not pin them an innocent Man. Truth Is Existance Truth is All That Truly Exists. Other Than Truth there is Just The understood Concept of An Absence. Lies with intent to deceive or not is fantasy. Lies remain in the nonexistent realm. Nothing Can Survive Singular It is only in a huge Complex Mass form can anything survive and succeed. The Great Creator and the Spirit Energy Source, Its Is Science, it is not Religion. Religion is Fantasy. The Great Designer and Creator, The spirit Energy Source, Matter, Knowledge, Energy, Time and Space Has Always Existed. All are Without Beginning or end. Beginning and End only reveals an absence. Honesty and understanding is the only true belief. Without honesty and understanding we do not know what to believe. To accept other’s opinion of the truth without proving it to yourself; it is being deceived it is not believing. We must understand to believe. Truth will solve all our problems before we create them; and ignore or reject the truth; problems will multiply all by themselves; those problems will need no help. Have a great and a meaningful life if it is at all possible. Just whispers, of the Spirit of Reality.

[@mpbootcamp7009]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Your silly posts dont take into consideration that some of the most fervent atheists are ex-Christians. We know the BS that you spew, why you spew it, and your whole script. There is nothing you can say that will surprise us or make us fall for it again. For me personally, it wasnt even science that made me turn my back on it. It was reading the Bible itself and realizing that I was "one of the baddies" for supporting a genocidal God who did not fit in with the "loving God" that I was sold initially. I got to the point where I didn't even care if God was real or not because I would have preferred hell over worshipping a being who delighted in the suffering of his own creation. I have proof that God (the Christian/Jewish God, at least) is not real: If that being described in the OT were real, with his temper and power, no one would be left on the Earth. A God like that would be far too volatile and anti human to allow his own creation to exists.

[@S.D.323]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363three words: copy and pasting

[@IJustSpin]

@@S.D.323 Ikr, like they want me to read the bible while writting one

[@axl256gamesx7]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363look I think i rather have hell than heaven with all the extremists up there They (hell and heaven) have literally swapped places after a while

[@Eidlones]

I really don't understand why some people find the concept of your life not having a predetermined purpose, horrifying.

[@ibizenco]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Why do we "need" to? What does "God" want, in the end? What is God's final and ultimate wish? That we believe? Then why not show himself to everyone all over the world at the same time? There is no god - certainly not the good and loving god from the New Testament who let his son/himself being murdered by us to free us from our sins. The absurdity. (The god from the Old Testament had every newborn in Egypt murdered, and like a real mafia don he didn't do it himself, but he had two angels do it for him... angels that needed to see blood on every door that they had to pass... right). There is no chance in heaven or hell that I would ever worship the god from the Old Testament.)

[@gavinboot4810]

So those babies killed by Hamas was "their gard given purpose in life"",,yeah ,right,,,,,

[@citizenvulpes4562]

It's because they want someone else to do all the work for them "why care if everything is already figured out"

[@kartikpintu]

They just need someone to blame for their shortcomings. "God made me this way, hence i am this way, don't blame me if I accidentally offend you."

[@wishingwell_333]

maybe it's not about that but honestly i can get it as someone who is going thru like a chronic existential crisis. it is weird how everything is pretty meaningless. even the way you're born and die is jus kinda random and that is weird to me. i mean i don't even feel bad or like im missing anything by not having a purpose bc it's jus sort of the truth without any deeper meaning lmao

[@ophelia3401]

He's so impressed with himself. It's very of putting. For just once I would like to hear an apologist say "I can't prove anything to you. It's all faith."

[@hilmanh2832]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363bullshit

[@hilmanh2832]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 how would you expect your religion to be true meanwhile there are billions of humans following other religions and what i've noticed so far is that all of the christian fanatics including you must be reciting some kind of bible passages and what i am about to tell you is that we are not afraid of all those things and we wouldn't respect people like you who oppress the belief on other without willingness of others.

[@LineOfThy]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363and yet you still do

[@nicholassgobero]

Which is crazy, because religion is all about having faith in something regardless of evidence

[@Thanks-bj1fo]

You gotta get out more. Many theists have said this.

[@manusiajawa715]

the argument of "nothing can exist if nothing created" can easily be countered by "then what created god?", and if they say "god is god so it existed by it self“, then continue with "then why cant the same rule be applied to the universe?"

[@jmbj6892]

To avoid that whole thing just say "yes" to "Have things always existed?" There is no scientific knowledge of what was before the big bang. There might've always been something there already and we just exploded like a star does

[@Chris-hf2sl]

Yes exactly. And which is more likely: 1. An old man in the sky who has existed forever created the universe using magic or 2. The universe has existed forever (though not necessarily in its present form).

[@manusiajawa715]

@@Chris-hf2sl such simple solution, and yet due to lack of knowledge the religion-boos cant grasp their head around it

[@voidb0rn211]

​@@Chris-hf2slidk man, a flying immortal Gandalf sounds pretty resonable...

[@エリー-q5q]

I liked the “knock on the door” argument, cause his explanation answers the wrong question. The problem to him is “did the knock happen by itself?”, but the dilemma is “how can you know who/what knocked the door without opening the door first?”.

[@Bogyway]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 In the short time I been on this world I have sinned and learned to be a better man. This mostly through the people surounding me. I am sure I could have learned worse when following bad companie. When reading the bible what is a book writen by humnan you do find good moral concepts and answares. Along a lot of sines. Also the christen history is paved with more bad then good it seems. The truth is in nature and must be discovered as it comes in varity. The book can only guide you. You might crave internal life as for me it is horror to just think about such a thing. When I could have a thing that does survive me I would hope it could be a thing what makes this planet more human to life on.

[@calixxaige1156]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 I have a question in mind and I hope you don't see this as being rude, but do you go to heaven by just believing in Jesus? I mean example is: a former murder wants to change and he go to churches and believed in Jesus, but can you still go to heaven?

[@greyklein4154]

Y’know, I heard that Hitler was deeply religious. If your god is no gaoler to the faithful, then did your god truly punish this horrible man?

[@khangminh219]

@@calixxaige1156 I am sorry because i dont know about Christianity, so i cant actually answer your question. But if you want to find out how other religions deal with this, i will give my take on buddhism: There is a karma system. If you do bad things, you will get bad karma. If you do good things, you get good karma. It is a simple system, but an effective and also objective one. The system observe every movements of you, and you the consequences you deserve, in this lifetime, in afterlife, or many afterlife after that. The judge of hell (Hades Dai, hell king, i dont know the translation) will only use the karma to judge you. So a former murder will be punished for his crime, and his visit to temple will either reduce his karma/punishment, or provide a slightly better afterlife after he is done with the karma. Sorry for this long paragraph but not answering your actual question, i just want to tell other about my grandma's belief.

[@pedropereira1285]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 "God is Loving yes and the bible describes Him as a just Judge" -> How is he loving, when he let the holocaust happen. How is he loving, if he let the nazis kill millions. How is he loving, if he created so many desease. "God will bring them to justice" -> I know you want it to be true, but the sad part is: Its not. I know its a harsh truth, not everyone can take it. Accepting that we live in an unfair world, with injustice and evil everywhere is not easy. Thats why so many people convince themselfs that there's a god, and he's good, and that all the evil people will be punished after death. Its easier to accept that than to accept that the world is just unfair. "avoid this judgement simply accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour and Repent of sin" -> Then how do you know hitler saw justice after death. He could have accepted jesus and repent his sins. "You break God's laws you go to hell" -> So if i lie to protect some1, i go to hell right? Since lying is a sin, doesnt matter what my intentions are. God is truly loving and good. If what is in the holybook, are the laws of God, then, i can say for certainty, that heaven has only God and Jesus. Everyone else is in hell.

[@another-niko-pfp-holder]

The guy treats conversing about religion like a game of Yugioh

[@181charlie]

Devout Christian here. Loved this video! I have no idea why you popped into my feed. I agree with a lot of points that you make about the leaps of logic and stratagem Koukl employs throughout his videos. What I love most is YOUR calm, rational, and civil approach to the content. I've gotten into some uncomfortable conversations with my church because their assertion of a given bible passage doesn't align with what is in the actual text. When I question the logic, they usually rely on the old standby of "many Christian scholars believe..." My naturally skeptical nature is rarely satisfied with this type of response; hence the discomfort. I wish church leadership would be satisfied that "I don't know" is a perfectly satisfactory response in many cases.

[@furiousapplesack]

Strong beliefs, if correct, should be able to stand up to scrutiny. Even if those beliefs reach a stalemate with facts in the world they should at least be able to engage in that process honestly and if they can't, that's a big red flag. It's like applying the scientific method but to beliefs and social statements. I'm not a theist and I don't try to convince anyone there is no god (because I don't care) but I have seen some interesting commentary from a religious leader here and there who go out of their way to engage in that process. Rev. Ed Trevors here on youtube does some good work and I enjoy his content even as a nonbeliever.

[@saraashkir5793]

@@furiousapplesack Im the same way as well! I love when intellect and logic come into discussions. Humans are smart and we arent satisfied with responses like “thats just the way it is!” If you’re interested in those kinds of discussions, I’m Muslim and I have a few favorite imams who speak in that way. Check out Yasir Qadhi’s channel or even some of Imam Omar Suleiman’s interfaith discussions (he did one with a rabbi and a priest thats really good). Although I will add, Yasir Qadhi tends to aim his discussion towards Muslims so it may be hard to understand what he’s talking about with some of the arabic terms

[@furiousapplesack]

@@saraashkir5793 I will check it out, thanks for the suggestion! Sounds interesting.

[@bluetoad2668]

You have a naturally skeptical nature and yet you describe yourself as a devout Christian?

[@GamesFromSpace]

@@bluetoad2668 It's possible to be skeptical and still believe (or follow) a particular fiction. Sure, it's a little unusual, but skeptic doesn't mean completely objective.

[@bluesfun]

39:55 this is probably the best sentence in this video: "if you simply believe a religiuous proposition is true because it makes you feel better than any alternative, please just admit that, don't give impressionable people the idea that your views are based on reason if you're just going to forego rational arguments and simply appeal to emotion".

[@erik_gerhard]

It shocks me how many Christians I know are unwilling to admit this. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging a particular philosophy or worldview fits your personal identity better than another, instead of trying to convince others it’s the correct one. In fact, I think it’s much more honest. Unfortunately, many Christians seem to feel that decently informed personal preference is a damning rationale, and that conversely…forcing anecdotal logic into attempting to prove the objectivity of a mindset that is, self-admittedly, based on faith…isn’t. I wish I knew why.

[@jameswarrren2545]

Reason, rationality are not the domain of religion. Only myth, allegory, parable, dreams are.

[@WanderingWolfe]

In philosophy, we discussed the idea of enough evidence to accept something as truth. In which the evidence might be subjective. When applied to religion, it was basically, if you see things in the world that validate your belief in God/etc. to you, then your belief is valid. However, we also talked about the idea that believing in religion because your parents say it's true is only valid until you are a free thinking adult. After that, truth by authority should fall aside to personal evidence and rationality.

[@NathanThompsonBlueEyes]

@@erik_gerhard It shocks me how Agnostics/Atheists are unwilling to admit this. Your next sentence is literally a completely self-defeating statement. You are trying to convince us that your way of thinking is better, while shouting down convincing others their way is right. "Unfortunately, many Christians seem to feel that..." Oh, thank the heavens that you're there to speak for many Christians...Then you go into another self-defeating sentiment--that forcing anecdotal logic is a damning rational--meanwhile forcing your anecdotal logic. Get real.

[@NathanThompsonBlueEyes]

@@jameswarrren2545 Yeah, especially the religions of Atheism and Agnosticism.

[@garrettaelito]

I love how you took his 'argument' that people's imagined images in their head, are stored "in their soul", and used it to make the exact same argument to prove that computers therefore also have a soul, using his own 'logic'.

[@kompatybilijny9348]

Machine spirits confirmed brother

[@the_furry_inside_your_walls639]

@@kompatybilijny9348 From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel...

[@johndrum6613]

Garrett. Mate. You got it. I have written my own book on the computer chips that are also called DNA Nucleotides. And they are computer chips. But that is not a soul. That is how the memory of being a particular part of biology is kept in tact through generations. IT is an aggregated list of elements to feed the algorithm that is a human or a giraffe or a seahorse. All the same thing. No soul. Sorry to old mate but no soul.

[@Demopans5990]

@@johndrum6613 Current developments in the field of deep learning say otherwise /S

[@AldorEricsson]

@@kompatybilijny9348 Praise the Omnissiah!

[@fadingfrost2617]

This explains why the class is free. I'd be quite mad if I paid to hear these junior high level responses.

[@joshuaa7266]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 You're a little ahead of yourself there, before you start advertising heaven you need to prove it's real. Nobody is interested in a product that doesn't exist.

[@Evelyn80264]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 how long a day do you take to comment on youtube? because you've been commenting on this video alone for months. why dont you do something useful like charity work or work a second job and donate the money, instead of commenting bible quotes to people who are entirely uninterested?

[@joshuaa7266]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Sorry, but there are loads of religions and they all have people who claim with absolute certainty that their experience says their religion is right. Unless I'm supposed to value your word more for some reason (I don't) I can only conclude they all have equal chances of being right. Edit: grammar

[@uolocur9356]

​@There is none Good but God John 3:16, Rev 3:16 that sounds very similar to what my religious schizo cousin would say. Im going to guess you should probably be medicated. Hopefully you've gotten help with these hallucinations.

[@ailospjellok7475]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 if god is good why does he not give innocent children chances? why does he let them die before they are born or to sickness or wars? i have also seen jesus, heaven and hell in my dreams and jesus was just a pretentious cocksucker who doesnt care for what uncontrollable situation you are in, just do what he says no matter how nonsensical they are and you wont be given shit

[@MrStreaty122]

I laughed so hard when he started talking about experiencing the taste of strawberry or feeling fur or hearing music because it’s coming from the soul. No, dude… that’s a memory. You’re remembering the experience of those things XD

[@khlopzi]

Well first it comes from receptors and nerves, they conduct nervous signals to the brain where those information are stored

[@Bob-bs9ok]

Damn, I can't rember those things to such a level, guess I just don't have a soul :(

[@CaptainObvious0000]

aside from the fact that the existence of psychoactive substances disproves the existence of souls.

[@Nick_J_]

Also, strawberries suck, and if you are touching fur that has been stripped off an animal, you are in fact soulless

[@melaniewilson1742]

@@CaptainObvious0000 Lmao good point, I didn’t think of that.

[@Kalahee]

Strawman is the only way people argue nowadays since they ignore everything about the other party's subject and barely know enough about their own to properly fight the strawman they themselves build unless outrageously wrong.

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

"Ask them for their thoughts, rather than assuming you know them already, and when they speak, listen." This is sound advice for speaking to a member of any marginalized group. Even if you consider yourself a friend or ally, that individual knows their own lived experiences better than you do.

[@Brass319]

Absolutely! One of my favorite parts of the Episcopal Church (branch of Christianity) is that everyone is welcome, even one such as I. After all, the judgement of who's worthy of what is God's job, and it would be rude to tell him how to do it.

[@Brass319]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 repent for what?

[@Brass319]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 I am personally honored to have witnessed all 8 comments/replies you have left

[@Brass319]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 in case you weren't aware, the prior statement was sarcasm.

[@cheezbiscuit4140]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363And the priests love your kids, like REALLY love your kids the sunday school teachers are just handsy dont worry about it.

[@Fiona-68]

I'm a 54 year old lady and I am a closet atheist. I was a Christian for many years and many people in my family including my husband still are which makes it impossible for me to come out any time soon but just to let you know I truly appreciate your channel and articulating exactly what I would if I could. God bless 😂😂 LoL.

[@thefaithfulchristian2035]

I hope and pray all Atheist will watch this movie just one time it is based on a true story The Case for Christ An investigative journalist and self-proclaimed atheist sets out to disprove the existence of God after his wife becomes a Christian.

[@ardaybeluday2444]

@@thefaithfulchristian2035 no one here is interested in religious propaganda.

[@derpfaddesweisen]

@@thefaithfulchristian2035 I'm a christian myself, but this book/movie is horrendous. It is so onesided and i don't believe a word of the authors claimed goal to disprove christianity. He only asks the most conservative scholars, never questions their answers. It is obvious, that he arrives at the exact conclusion he wanted to arrive.

[@bartduynstee1577]

and there is nothing wrong with you saying "god bless", as it does not mean anything else but a wellmeant wish to others. religion has provided us with certain terms and words which are soo embedded into society, that they are just used as if. saying OMG or Hell no are further examples, which dont really have the original meaning anymore.

[@bartduynstee1577]

@@thefaithfulchristian2035 theists are way more concerned with atheists than the other way around. atheists dont go door to door, dont stand on streetcorners shouting out the promised land of atheism. its only when it comes up, that we take position and theists cannot stand that we are not that concerned about your stories

[@TheGeneralleasy]

So basically the whole course seems to be about "How do I trick rational people into saying something irrational that supports my belief".

[@bladerunner3314]

And "Let me tell you anecdotes I swear by my imaginary friend happened but in reality never did." This guy met less atheists than Ray Comfort and he takes a wiiiiiiiide berth around us.

[@pvanukoff]

Exactly. It's not about actually proving your argument, but about trying to paint the other person into a corner.

[@Rawnblade13]

@@bladerunner3314 What? The Mighty Banana Man fears atheists?!

[@eyesack6845]

Sorry i can't like. It has 69 likes.

[@TheGeneralleasy]

@@eyesack6845 Now you can, we're past that point.

[@denny141196]

For "what caused the universe": As an atheist, I have two choices. First, believe the universe has no cause. Second, believe that an intelligent designer caused the world to exist, and that such a designer is eternal and has no cause. Admittedly, the first option is ridiculous. But the second one just adds another layer of ridiculous, while not explaining anything further. What reason do I have to change my belief?

[@MrKry]

Being able to say "A Big Bang needs a Big Banger!" with a straight face is the mark of a true God-fearing Christian xD

[@iriskohr6900]

Haha, you get it! Some of those contemporary worship songs...

[@Tonald_Drumpft]

But who created that _Big Banger_ , tho?

[@LukeSumIpsePatremTe]

@@Tonald_Drumpft Special pleading

[@Heliscope]

A God needs a Godder??

[@blackfoxgames4431]

@@Heliscope yes

[@josebatxu32]

Student of Psychology here; many of the things we "don't have an explanation for" have been explained for decades

[@WalterModel45]

Saddenly for them xd

[@WalterModel45]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 God doesn't exist, so is he doesn't love anybody.

[@WalterModel45]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 🤣 Sorry for the disapointment I am still being an atheist.

[@danielchoritz1903]

he student: a explanation requires understanding from the receiving side. or it is a mantra they have to believe, isnt it?

[@injunsun]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 God loves me, but wants me to be murdered by people like you for being gay? Wants me to burn in Hell for eternity for being gay? Got it. Yeah, I sure feel the love.

[@salembookworm]

I am really struggling with my faith at the moment and somehow youtube recommended me your videos and at first I had a knee-jerking reaction: "How dare you criticizing my religion" and then I started to listen.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

This staunch atheist wishes your strength.

[@OuchieWahWah]

I hope you manage to escape that struggle wether you get your faith back or become an atheist.

[@AidanDaGreat]

I feel ya man. Do what you know is right. And I love ya. :)

[@MrJhonbaker]

I struggled for much longer than necessary - I hope you do not. a few years of Christian indoctrination at an important juncture delayed my ability to enjoy life. Doubt is good and kind - Doubt can also be trying and crisis inducing. I hope you can soon accept where you stand, no matter where you stand.

[@Whiskey.T.Foxtrot]

I'm an Atheist and get religious YT recommendations frequently. I start watching some but they usually drive into the ditch with a fallacy or unsubstantiated claim in short order. Good luck on your quest. Ask yourself this...are the arguments and claims supported by credible evidence?

[@soyevquirsefron990]

“Nobody writes a best selling book about lack of belief” I’m not trying to write a book, I’m just working to do things that make people around me happier, and Christians are coming to my job and my house and my kids school trying to get us to believe and asking why don’t you believe have you heard this, did you read that, go watch this video series, do you 100% not believe or do you 51% not believe And finally I say “I’m just don’t believe it!” And they say “well you can’t write a book about that”

[@almcdermid9669]

I recently de-converted and was discussing the agnostic/atheist "issue" with my one atheist friend last night, and you expressing why and how you use the terms was exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks.

[@asagoldsmith3328]

Yeah even Carl Sagan fell for the propaganda

[@slashyell]

gnosticism deals with knowledge. knowlegde is a subset of belief. you can be an agnostic theist or atheist. it works both ways.

[@geomicpri]

I don’t understand. It’s obviously not that you simply don’t know & don’t care (or else you wouldn’t be on this channel). You have a positive belief about whether or not God exists, right? But it is nether that God exists nor that He doesn’t. So what is your positive belief? Or are you “sitting on the fence” (as he says he is not) waiting for proof one way or the other?

[@littlebitofhope1489]

@@slashyell Just put it in a sentence. Agnostic theist. I don't know god exists, but I believe he does. Knowledge is what we gain through experience and experimentation or testing. It is NOT a subset of belief. It derives from the realities of the world around us. Belief is all about conviction, not reality. This is mostly visible in religious settings, where the ideals are not tested but merely believed.

[@Stratosarge]

@@geomicpri I am atheist because until someone delivers credible evidence for an existence of god or gods, I have no reason to believe in such things, just like I have no reason to believe in the cosmic teapot, the wizard of Oz or an honest apologist.

[@adamlivesay1973]

"What if we FEEL guilty, because we ARE guilty?" Ah yes, because nobody in the history of humanity has ever been shamed and bullied into feeling guilty for things they shouldn't feel guilty about. Like being Gay. The only guilt I find with my life style is that THESE kind of "Christians" in particular seem to think their all powerful, all knowing, all seeing, ever present, ALL LOVING sky Daddy is going to take one look at me and my kind and sentence us to Eternal Hell for the unforgivable crime of... Loving another consenting adult, and living as peacefully as we could. But yeah. Go off about how we feel guilty because we ARE guilty. I'm sure that'll go over real well with the alter boys.

[@alexs.5871]

i also love the other demonstrably ridiculously untrue point he made in that section. "All humans feel guilt'... Religion really *is* opium for the people isnt it. Yikes.

[@undrwatropium3724]

Man created God in his image

[@amyshew1151]

If god made humans in his image then clearly god is pansexual . He’s also murderous , hateful, a liar , psychopath and loving kind and well balanced . Gods like Santa Claus to me except an effed up version - for most ? No adult tells them , “Ah, the Bible ? That’s just a joke adults play on kids to get them to follow their parents dictates . No one’s told you yet there is no god or heaven and hell ? Whoops ! Well, now you know .”

[@adamlivesay1973]

@@amyshew1151 Easy there. While I share your feelings on the Churchs version of God whole hearted as someone who managed to escape the Church cult I was growing up in, you got what they said mixed up just I did the first 5 times I read their comment. I'm sure theres no hard feelings though.

[@adamlivesay1973]

@@amyshew1151 Trust me, I would have been the first to start breaking them down. I've made it my hobby since the pandemic to try to get overzealous nuts to break down their beliefs one painful, traumatic example at a time.

[@shinaikouka]

As someone that was religious for my teens and about half of my 20's, I found the snippets of Koukl's videos to be very frustrating as time went on. I've got a number of religious friends and I've had conversations with them about religion over the years, so I've had to deal with some of these notions before. The two biggest things that came to me were... 1. Having to explain the unknown. 2. The obsession with needing to feel special. Number two is probably the one that frustrates me the most though. As an agnostic atheist, I've had people ask me, "If there's no Heaven, then what's the point in living?" (or something like that). Part of me doesn't really know what to say, because I don't see the need to realize some ultimate lifelong goal (i.e. going to Heaven) to make my life mean something. I guess you could say it's like that saying, "it's about the journey, not the destination". I've also had people ask me about why should you be good without a God to judge you. That's another somewhat weird question for me, because being good is just a facet of society.

[@josue1996jc]

yeah, it is frustrating, but i think you got it rigth. the first one is tricky tho, because, the unknown is scary, in spanish we say "mas vale malo conocido que bueno por conocer" that means " i'ts better something bad that you know than something good you don't". you dont really have to explain the unkown all you have to do is explain something well known and explain how we used to "know" it worked before, like the milky way, the thunders, why is the sky blue. Then you tell them "it took us 4000 year to figure that out and now he see it so simple. it was always there, and the answers to what we dont know now are there for us to discover too"

[@AbandonedVoid]

But the journey sucks. Life is absolutely awful. I can't blame people for wanting there to be some kind of reward for pushing through all of this.

[@josue1996jc]

@@AbandonedVoid i disagree, the journy SUCKS youre rigth, but it doesnt have to always suck. it put myself as an example, i was studying medicine in venezuela my home country, when i was about to graduate, the goverment tries to incarcelate me and a lot of other medicine students for helping wounded people in the manifestations. i had tu run away to brazil, i've been living here for 3 year strugling to find job, and the college sistem here doesnt really help with fisnishing college. no time for a girlfriend or to make a family because of all the shit going on rigth now to me. and here i am, still figthing for what i want, because i know that i can make it work, all i need is 1 job, and find a way to go back to college, 8 years and i know i can make life worth it. is not a competition but if you got it worst than me, then let me tell you, you can make thing better, just dont give up.

[@SeaJay_Oceans]

"If there's no Heaven, then what's the point in living?" Love Life, Enjoy Existence, Have fun while visiting planet Earth for a few decades. A lot of confusion is erased when people stop using the generic word god. The Bible says God is Love. So, Love is God. Love LOVE, love all beings, love your self, love enemies and create new friendships. Loving Relationships replace Religious Rituals. The Good Samaritan story has no mythology, only empathology. It's a paradigm shift away from illusions, and towards compassion.

[@Nazinsky]

@@AbandonedVoid It's terrible, but I think that can also give people the reason into believing a God doesn't exist as well. I personally don't believe in a God.

[@suplerb]

Another problem with the his soul argument, not everyone has a “minds eye”. Being able to recreate these senses in your head is not a universal ability! So do those people who can’t just not have a soul? Two people’s internal experience of themselves can be vastly different. It’s one of my favorite things to ask people about.

[@GodlessCommie]

Did he accidentally confirm that animals have souls? Animals can also dream and therefore imagine things and by his own argument that means they have souls.

[@GodlessCommie]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 there is no god

[@mushu_beardie2556]

It's always been weird to me that people who believe in souls don't think animals have them. I don't believe in souls, but if we have them, animals for sure have them. Thinking about my bearded dragon, who's extremely loving and also lazy, and my ball python, who's very not smart but curious, there's no way that they don't have a soul if I do. Animals have such rich internal worlds, and I'm kind of insulted that people think that they aren't special when they clearly are.

[@Muhluri]

Let's be honest: he didn't think that deeply about that statement.

[@firstname8637]

​@@mushu_beardie2556 Yeah. I mean I just can't imagine anyone who belives in souls and, at some point in his/her life, has owned or cared for a pet does not think that those creatures also have one. Thats like me looking in the eyes of a puppy and then proclaiming with full confidence that those eyes are dead and there is absolutely nothing behind them.

[@GodlessCommie]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 sure go ahead

[@WolfenRyujin]

If memories are stored in the soul... what is dementia? Does headtrauma, have the ability to hurt your immortal soul? I'd love for him, Koukl, to explain this.

[@puppieslovies]

If I were to assume, I would think the tempting explanation would to be to say the soul is still there, but your injury prevents you from expressing it. Of course, this is also untestable and silly, but that makes sense given his position

[@WolfenRyujin]

@@puppieslovies But at the same time this would mean that my sickness/injury can lead to me "sinning" and as such keep me from heaven. This position gets more ludicrous the futher you go with it.

[@puppieslovies]

@@WolfenRyujin one possible way to rationalize that would be to say you were not sinning in your heart of hearts, it just looks like it outwardly. After all, we do consider mentally ill people who would be guilty of a crime to be innocent in many cases. I think that would be the easy parallel to draw.

[@WolfenRyujin]

@@puppieslovies Technically, sure. But either way, as you already stated...not testable.

[@kidwolf0015]

As an agnostic (no, I'm not "on the edge" like the misunderstood definition that Drew pointed out but rather very firmly planted in "neutral" views of pretty much any possiblity), There is a really weird, well-documented phenomenon known as "terminal lucidity" that might produce an answer to the whole "does brain injury hurt the soul"... Not exactly a "proof" but it's still weird. Basically, there are cases where right before a dementia patient dies they suddendly regain most if not all of thier cognitive abilites and memories back. Unfortunately, this might cause a false hope of recovery because terminal lucidity generally lasts no longer than a week (usually 1 to 2 days) and then the patient dies within a week after it. The question is how this is physically possible when this temporary state of lucidity is seemingly *caused by total destruction of the brain* ? Like even medical experts currently have no clue what's causing it. Could it actually be thier soul "defying" the physical boundry of dementia? (Yes, I realize how crazy that question is... but at least it's SOMETHING on thier side, right?)

[@CombinedProductions0]

I love this "you can experience all five senses using your soul" thing. I'm incapable of visualization for psychiatric reasons, so does that mean I have no soul?

[@gavinaustin1146]

Some call it aphantasia, Christians call it "soulless."

[@Name-ru1kt]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 first please change your name to something shorter. It fucks with the comments when anyone tried to respond on mobile. Second don’t promote your religion on a atheist channel. Its a recipe for disaster Third: if your going to promate your religion let me offer you some guidance. Bring up a point from the video time stamped then say the flaw in his reasoning or try to further back up the point made. Just stating something will never give you anywhere if it has no context or backing to it Like if I say I believe the gaint spaghetti monster created the universe means nothing. Just as yours here. Now if I brought if some real life examples to prove that in fact the spaghetti monster did do that now were getting somewhere.

[@dc_maru]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 why must you use scare tactics to try and promote your beliefs?

[@pythonbbx9075]

@There is none Good but God - bro i’ve seen you post this exact comment before. Stop copy + pasting random crap that has nothing to with the original comment. Nobody here wants to hear it; but if you must insist on trying to convert, at least use your own arguements instead of copy + pasting someone else’s from some random christian website.

[@Anankin12]

@@dc_maru because that's what it's keeping them good, the fear of punishment. No person doing good because they're forced to is actually good. If they actually read and understood what they believe in, they would know that such things automatically exclude them from the Kingdom of Heaven (There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18) But alas, proselites almost never actually understand what they preach, so there's no surprise there.

[@Orkprof]

Here's a way to counter the watch maker analogy: instead of walking into a workshop and finding well-crafted clocks, let's say you walk into a forest, or a patch of grass. Would you still assume there HAS TO be a gardener who planted all those trees one by one? Or every single blade of grass?

[@unknowngod8221]

nope tree come from plants that evoluted and live on that land

[@shinomori69]

I'm not drunk enough to deal with an apologist like Koukl. There really isn't any new argument for their beliefs. Apologists are worse than phone game developers in retreading old material. The Problem of Evil is what turned me away from religion in Afghanistan in 2010. Koukl's hand waving dismissal of it just makes me more convinced that apologists like him fall into the "willfully ignorant due to fear of loss of pay".

[@bryanjackson8917]

Unlike Christianity, there's a reason that there is no such thing as an Apologist in the world of atheism. You see, Christians have plenty to apologize about, whereas atheists have none.

[@killgoretrout9000]

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair

[@cyrenedomogalla5127]

Funny, cause I'm half a bottle of wine in, and I'm too drunk to follow non-logical leaps of bullcrap. Same outcome, different sides of intoxication.

[@shinomori69]

@@killgoretrout9000 that was the line I was trying to remember.

[@FullmoonPhantom-dn2sr]

That was what turned me away from Christianity as well. What I was taught as a child was an all powerful all knowing loving just God. If there’s evil in the world God should do something about it. Protect his children. For me, evil in the world effecting good people was one of the reasons I questioned God’s existence. It’s also possible he doesn’t care or he’s not loving, but if that were the case then I don’t plan on following him. All the same I’d still leave the Christian group though I guess I wouldn’t be an unbeliever if that were the case. It doesn’t matter to everyone I guess, but that did matter to me.

[@donaldbingham8990]

I was required to go to church from the time I was 6 years old until I became an adult. They told us lots of bible stories which I thought were the same kind of fairy tales that I had heard as a child. I never thought any of the stories were true because they defied reason and I have never changed my mind. It baffles me why grown people argue and kill each other over such nonsense. I am old and will die before too much longer. When I die I expect to simply cease to exist. After thinking about the christian claim of everlasting life, I find that thought terrifying. It is bad enough being 80 with all the aches and pains that come with that age. Besides I can't stand many of the so called christians now so why in the world would I want to be caged up with them for eternity. I much prefer the idea of eternal peace where I just cease to exist like common sense suggests. If more people would be concerned with leading a good and meaningful life and stop worrying about what they are going to do after they die the world would be a much better place.

[@Helena-me6mp]

i respect you, you have the right mindset, if you are fine with what you have done, you shouldnt worry about your morality because you are a good human being.

[@Helena-me6mp]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 If you are just quoting a 2000 year old book to prove something without saying anything, do you think anyone will care?

[@Helena-me6mp]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 HAHHAHHAHA ok: "It is impossible for nature to have made itself or be eternal." So youre saying that nothing can just be there right? Everything has a creator?

[@michaelchampion3056]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 what garbage

[@michaelchampion3056]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 I do not believe because none of it is true. NO God, Jesus was just some Religious nutter like you seem to be. All Religions are made up and used to control the People. If you bleedy God is so great why the Hell did he mess up everything. Children need to believe not Adults. Quote what you like from a made up Book as it proves nothing

[@awilson1998]

I call myself an Agnostic when it comes to a general God and an Atheist when it comes to religions. I will never claim a god does or doesn't exist but I will gladly argue that the god represented in religions is bogus.

[@MC_CatMaster]

That pretty much matches my view. There are so many conflicting religions that the odds of any one of them being right is almost nothing. Maybe there's a god or something, but no person is going to convince me of anything specific without some really drastic evidence

[@NathanThompsonBlueEyes]

Alright, do it, then. Let's see your evidence.

[@MC_CatMaster]

@@NathanThompsonBlueEyes Are you talking to me?

[@NathanThompsonBlueEyes]

@@MC_CatMaster No, to the OP.

[@mattbeckley9483]

@@NathanThompsonBlueEyes first you have to pull the dent out of your head nate

[@JessicaLindsey-jw6nu]

The story on 17-19 minutes was me. I was the boy and you are right. He faked the conversation suspected out the points I used to destroy him. It makes me sad that they people like this will fake their conversations to try to present be a point.

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Wait really? You’ve met Kokul? I’d be interested to hear about it if you’d like to email me

[@Andersinn]

I don't understand why the origins of morals are so complicated: A society that allows stealing is obviously less stable than a society that does not allow stealing... same goes for other "moral" rules...

[@TheMyuken]

Literally a selective pressure that apply natural selection to society

[@Captaintrippz]

Weird how most moral systems around the globe and throughout history tended to be conducive to large groups of humans living in close proximity.

[@leslierhorer1412]

Well, "obvious" is a rather ephemeral term, but your point has some validity. One very reasonable metric of morals is how "desirable" a society they engender. Of course, what is desirable is fairly subjective, but it is not too terribly difficult to reach a consensus on a list of reasonably desirable social attributes. Indeed, my favorite method of determining morality and ethics is "Justice as Fairness", created by John Rawls. It is basically a thought experiment. Suppose a large group of people are going to set about designing a society, but none of them knew anything at all about their eventual place in that society. Anyone in their right mind is going to exclude murder, rape, starvation, slavery, etc, to be morally acceptable, since they themselves might be one of the ones murdered, raped, or whatever. Once the basic laws are in place, we can let the people know a bit more about the society; how large it is, what economic resources, and so forth. All along the way, we can build this very reasonable, largely objective, reasonably fair society with no hint of a god anywhere in sight. If by "origins of morals" you mean how our moral codes developed, well it is because rather than being developed in a manner similar to that which I describe above, they developed ad-hock over time based in large measure upon the desires of rich members of society and religious zealots. There was also a lot of trial and error involved, and unfortunately error does not always result in the removal of laws or moral strictures.