Does God Exist? William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens - Full Debate [HD]

On April 4, 2009, William Lane Craig and Christopher Hitchens met at Biola University to debate the question of God’s existence. Craig is one of the world’s foremost Christian apologists. Hitchens, is a leading spokesman for the “new atheism” movement.
In front of an overflow crowd and a global internet audience, they debated the origin and design of the universe, the implications of human morality, the deity of Jesus, and the validity of Christ’s resurrection. It was a compelling clash of worldviews and an examination of the major arguments for and against Christianity and atheism.

[@taylorrichens1749]

Man, the guy that I like DESTROYED the guy that I don't like

[@teachies902]

lol. precisely what 99% of people watching this think. thanks for posting this comment.

[@teachies902]

@Brendan Moriarty brendan moriarty, asking the real questions

[@taylorrichens1749]

Well, the purpose of the comment was to point out that people are more likely to be biased towards the view they believe rather than looking at the arguments objectively. I personally am a Christian, but I think that both Craig and Hitchens had some good arguments. I also think that Hitchens could have answered some of those questions more directly and I think that Craig could have listened more to what Hitchens was saying to respond better. It seemed like they were both focused on making there own case instead of responding adequately to the other person.

[@tristanbenware3972]

All I've picked up so far (20 minutes in), is that craig doesn't understand the big bang theory

[@britishjoseph631]

@@tristanbenware3972 neither do any scientists.

[@Maravirocthegreat]

These guys clearly don’t know how to argue their points so I have come to the comment section to hear from the experts.

[@enclave2k1]

Right, the experts on God...

[@nurharonparao623]

Google scientist I guess?

[@nurharonparao623]

@Ψ perhaps the interpretation was too good haha

[@nurharonparao623]

@Ψ and Im not saying they cant comment about it -_-

[@enclave2k1]

​@Ψ Anyone claiming to be an expert in God, whatever that means, is an expert in nothing.

[@derrichovekamp]

I've had the pleasure in my life to have attended debates that featured Christopher Hitchens. As a theist I found him to be abrasive and often angering, but that speaks more to his brilliance because he forced me to think about other positions on theology as a whole. We don't have to agree on anything to be kind to one another. If you are making disgusting comments about him, it is my contention that it speaks more about you than about the late Mr Hitchens.

[@lennonpierce1607]

This^^ that's called reaching across the aisle...

[@iamthatiamiamthatiam2942]

Derric Hovekamp of all the people whom I have heard make statements and comments about life after death, heaven and such things, and say without apologizing that they were wrong, I'm curious what they have to say now that they are in the axact place they swore didn't exist. what do they have to brag about now.

[@PanchoKnivesForever]

I'm sorry, but that is such an extraordinary claim that I implore you to provide extraordinary evidence to back up said claim. “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens

[@vadinhopsc]

Derric Hovecamp - You was forced to think.... that means you are not a theist anymore, right? This should be the logical outcome of thinking, I mean, rationaly of course. Everybody think. Some rationaly. Many irrationaly.

[@joshuaewalker]

Derric Hovenkamp, Well said.

[@peterdoucette8036]

Note how clever Craig is with his technique. He claims that his opponent ‘asserts’ conclusions without sufficient evidence, which is essentially what Craig does himself.

[@LGpi314]

Hypocrisy runs deep in low-bar Bill.

[@filmeseverin]

@peterdoucette8036 God has made this reality with 100% freedom intentionally (as if it had created itself from nothing - without Him) to see our *free* choices / deeds to reward accordingly. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 So, God is not showing intentionally direct evidences (as atheists want) because He wants to see our *free* choices, how much we love perfection (100% goodness, wisdom, justice, pure love....) and how much we detest evilness=stupidity. - If/when we will have direct evidences of God, as atheists want, then we ALL will have immediately interested love regarding our Heavenly Father, but now, the really good humans, who love God/Jesus only from the revelation of the truth, can prove their true love for Divinity, for perfection, while living here with 100% freedom. Atheists cannot answer seriously to the *Are you and this world the result of no intelligence?* question, otherwise, they would have to admit the existence of God, because *from no intelligence involved no intelligence comes.* That is why, for example, George Enescu has said: "In my humble opinion, you have to be really naive to seriously declare that God does not exist." By the way, those who sort the comments and read enough from my posts (both answers and threads) can see that *I have proved* that this reality has been created by an eternal perfect Intelligence (called God / the Creator) whose nature will never be really comprehended by humans (because of our proved limitations) except through Jesus Christ, the human form of God.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin Same shiiit on a different day. So, God supposedly hides like a **coward** and expects us to “freely” believe without a shred of proof? That’s **pure manipulation**, not love or wisdom. Any “God” who demands blind worship while refusing to show up is just an **insecure tyrant**. This isn’t a test of goodness-it’s a **rigged setup** to reward mindless obedience and punish anyone who dares to think. A real, good God wouldn’t need to play these **sadistic games**. If He’s hiding to “test” us, it’s not about freedom-it’s about **nonsense control**. End of story.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin YOU ARE THE MOST DISHONEST CHRISTIAN. When are you going to rebuttal my counterarguments? William Lane Craig (WLC) often presents five core arguments in debates about the existence of God. While his specific points may vary depending on the debate, his arguments generally revolve around: The Cosmological Argument (Kalam version) The Teleological Argument (design argument) The Moral Argument The Resurrection of Jesus Religious Experience (personal experiences of God) Here’s a brief examination and refutation of each point based on common counter-arguments used by atheists, skeptics, and even some theists: 1. Cosmological Argument (Kalam) Craig’s Point: Everything that begins to exist has a cause. The universe began to exist. Therefore, the universe has a cause, and this cause must be timeless, spaceless, and immaterial (i.e., God). Refutation: Uncertainty about "beginning": Physicists like Lawrence Krauss and others argue that the concept of "beginning" is not necessarily applicable to the universe in the way we intuitively think. Quantum mechanics shows that particles can appear and disappear without apparent causes. This weakens the premise that "everything that begins to exist has a cause." Multiverse Theory: Some cosmological models suggest the universe could be part of a larger multiverse or that it could have originated from a quantum vacuum, challenging the necessity of a divine cause. Timeless causality: If everything that begins to exist has a cause, then asking what caused God (since He is claimed to exist) remains a question. Additionally, the idea of a timeless, immaterial cause acting to create time and space raises philosophical questions about how such a being could initiate an event. 2. Teleological Argument (Design) Craig’s Point: The fine-tuning of the universe for life points to an intelligent designer, as the chances of a life-permitting universe by random chance are astronomically small. Refutation: Multiverse Hypothesis: The multiverse theory posits that there could be countless other universes with different physical constants, making it less surprising that one (ours) is finely tuned for life. If there are an infinite number of universes, one of them being suitable for life is inevitable without divine intervention. Natural Processes: It’s possible that what looks like fine-tuning could be the result of natural physical processes we do not yet fully understand, much like how biological complexity was explained through natural selection after Darwin's theory of evolution. Anthropic Principle: We observe the universe as fine-tuned because we are here to observe it; if the universe weren’t hospitable to life, we wouldn’t be around to notice. This doesn't necessarily point to intentional design. 3. Moral Argument Craig’s Point: If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist. Objective moral values and duties do exist. Therefore, God exists. Refutation: Secular Morality: Many philosophers argue that objective moral values can exist independently of God. Secular humanism, for example, grounds morality in human well-being, empathy, and societal needs without invoking a divine lawgiver. Euthyphro Dilemma: This ancient philosophical problem challenges whether something is good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is good? If the former, morality seems arbitrary; if the latter, then morality exists independently of God. Evolutionary Morality: Morality can be explained as a product of evolution and social cooperation. Traits like empathy, fairness, and cooperation are advantageous for survival and could have evolved naturally. 4. Resurrection of Jesus Craig’s Point: The historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus (empty tomb, post-mortem appearances, the rise of Christianity) is best explained by the resurrection, making it reasonable to believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. Refutation: Alternative Explanations: Skeptics argue that other explanations are possible, including legend development, hallucinations, or that the early followers of Jesus sincerely believed they experienced appearances of Jesus without them being objectively real. Lack of Contemporary Evidence: The resurrection accounts were written decades after the event by followers of Jesus. There are no contemporary Roman or Jewish historical records verifying the resurrection, and historical accounts of supernatural events are notoriously unreliable. 5. Religious Experience Craig’s Point: Many people claim to have had personal experiences of God. These experiences provide evidence for God's existence, especially since they often lead to transformative life changes. Refutation: Subjectivity: Religious experiences are highly subjective and can be explained by psychological, cultural, or emotional factors. People from various religious traditions report similar experiences that are attributed to different gods, which suggests these experiences are not reliable indicators of any one deity’s existence. Neurological Explanations: Neuroscience shows that certain brain states or conditions (like meditation, fasting, or epilepsy) can produce spiritual experiences. These experiences can be profound but don’t necessarily point to an external, divine cause. Religious Parallels: Resurrection stories and miracle claims are not unique to Christianity. Other religions have similar miracle accounts, and yet these are not typically accepted as evidence for the truth of those religions. Skeptics argue that Christianity should not be an exception.

[@filmeseverin]

@peterdoucette8036 If/when you have time, I recommend you to read all my threads and my answers posted over one week, at least.

[@iqgustavo]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🎵 Welcome to Biola University, hosting a debate on God's existence. 01:15 👋 Distinguished guests, students initiated the debate with acclaimed leaders William Lane Craig and Christopher Hitchens. 03:34 🎓 Biola's Master of Arts in Christian Apologetics is highlighted as a degree program. 06:04 📚 Featured books by Hitchens and Craig are available for signing; DVDs and CDs of debates and lectures are also promoted. 08:35 🏀 Theists and atheists gather for a debate moderated by Hugh Hewitt. 13:19 🎙️ William Lane Craig begins with arguments for theism, starting with the cosmological argument. 19:05 🌌 Craig presents the teleological argument, highlighting the fine-tuning of the universe. 25:24 🧐 Craig introduces the moral argument, asserting the connection between God's existence and objective moral values. 26:20 🤨 Objective morality debate: Craig argues that atheistic view lacks objective moral values; Hitchens contends moral values are innate and evolved. 27:48 🙌 Resurrection of Jesus: Craig presents historical case for Jesus' resurrection; Hitchens challenges need for divine explanation. 31:08 🤔 Immediate experience of God: Craig argues for direct experience of God as a basis for belief; Hitchens emphasizes skepticism and doubt. 35:48 🧐 Presuppositionalism vs. evidentialism: Hitchens critiques the distinction between presuppositionalists and evidentialists; questions the evidentiary basis of religious claims. 46:13 😇 Faith over evidence: Craig asserts primacy of faith over evidence based on the Holy Spirit's witness; Hitchens challenges this prioritization. 50:19 🌌 Physicists are uncertain about the origins of the universe, viewing it from an unimaginable distance in both space and time. 51:16 🌀 Challenges to the assumption of a designing god include the question of pre-existing material, infinite regress, and the existence of destruction and nothingness in the universe. 54:32 🤝 The existence of atheism isn't strongly disputed; Hitchens emphasizes the lack of need for special terms for disbelief in other mythical beings. 57:54 🕊️ The naturalist's adherence to evolution might be dogmatic due to the absence of intelligent design in their worldview. 01:00:15 🪄 Theism and deism are distinct; Dr. Craig's arguments build a cumulative case for Christian theism based on deductive reasoning. 01:04:56 🌍 Atheism's central assertion is that no evidence supports a supernatural realm; Hitchens criticizes the inconsistency of creation timing and widespread suffering. 01:06:25 🧬 The debate revolves around the question of whether belief in God is warranted based on evidence, immediate experience, or psychological grounds. 01:13:42 🧐 Christopher Hitchens challenges believers to name an ethical action/statement they could make that he couldn't. He points out that no advantage arises from divine sanction in morality. 01:14:41 😬 Hitchens highlights the negative aspects of religion, referencing genital mutilation, suicide bombings, genocidal injunctions in the Old Testament, and asserts that morality can't be derived from the supernatural. 01:15:08 🤝 Hitchens discusses the Golden Rule's limitations due to subjective interpretation, and emphasizes that morality arises from shared human empathy and societal evolution rather than religious origins. 01:16:36 💭 Hitchens debates free will and its connection to religion, discussing different perspectives, including Calvinism and Islam, and asserts that the wish for unfreedom is inherent in religion. 01:19:16 🤔 Craig questions Hitchens about his atheistic beliefs, distinguishing different forms of non-theism and asking whether he affirms God's non-existence or simply withholds belief. 01:20:44 🧐 Hitchens clarifies his view on atheism and discusses his preference for non-belief, expressing agnosticism as evasive and stating that he finds arguments for God unconvincing. 01:24:11 🤯 Craig discusses the concept of miracles and exorcisms attributed to Jesus, illustrating divine authority and pointing out the radical nature of Jesus' claims. 01:27:42 😇 Hitchens questions Craig about the legitimacy of miracles and resurrection, and the evidence required for claims of extraordinary events in religious narratives. 01:30:38 🙌 Craig acknowledges the possibility of false religious preaching, Hitchens highlights the potential for wickedness associated with preaching false religions, and the debate shifts towards denominational differences within Christianity. 01:32:55 🕊️ Craig concludes that there have been no compelling reasons presented to affirm atheism and asserts that positive atheism lacks evidence. 01:33:26 😇 William Lane Craig discusses how God prepared humanity for the advent of Christ, and how those who lived before Christ were covered by his atoning sacrifice, judged based on their response to general revelation. 01:35:20 🌌 Craig presents the cosmological and teleological arguments for God's existence, emphasizing that these arguments provide grounds to believe in a personal creator and intelligent designer of the universe. 01:35:48 🧩 The moral argument is discussed, with Craig asserting that atheism lacks a foundation for objective moral values, while theism provides a transcendent basis for such values. 01:38:41 🙏 Craig explains N.T. Wright's argument about the resurrection of Jesus, highlighting that the origin of the disciples' belief in a risen Messiah demands explanation, and the empty tomb and post-mortem appearances of Jesus provide a compelling case for the resurrection. 01:40:11 🤔 Christopher Hitchens counters by suggesting that religious beliefs are man-made and contradictory, referencing instances where religion supported harmful ideologies, and emphasizing the need for secular ethics and critical thinking. 01:43:17 🕊️ Hitchens challenges the assertion that unbelief leads to wickedness and that moral values come solely from religion, arguing that moral values can be understood without religious doctrine. 01:48:49 💡 Craig concludes by summarizing his arguments, asserting that atheism is a worldview that lacks evidential support, while theism offers explanations for cosmology, morality, and the resurrection of Jesus, inviting Hitchens and the audience to consider Christianity. 01:56:30 😄 Dr. Craig discusses the positive impact of religious guidelines on sexual expression, stating that religious people have more satisfying sexual lives. 01:56:59 🤔 Hitchens challenges religious beliefs about homosexuality and questions the contradiction between claiming homosexuality is against God's law while some are born homosexual. 01:58:00 ⚖️ A student questions Hitchens about blaming religion for violence when the creation of nuclear bombs by physicists caused massive destruction, leading to a discussion on the difference between physics and ideology. 01:59:11 😈 Hitchens argues that specific religious injunctions, like circumcision, are harmful, while Dr. Craig suggests that such practices might not accurately reflect the essence of faith. 02:00:41 🌍 A debate on whether atheists or religious individuals, like Marxists or Christians, have caused more harm in history, with Dr. Craig emphasizing the focus on the truth of worldviews rather than their societal impact. 02:02:08 🧐 Hitchens challenges the legitimacy of biblical commandments and actions, criticizing harmful religious behaviors that stem from perceived divine instructions. 02:03:35 🌟 A student raises the question of life's purpose for atheists and theists, leading to discussions about meaningful living, humanism, and the role of religious beliefs. 02:06:36 🔑 Dr. Craig asserts that without God, life lacks objective meaning, while Hitchens argues that humanism can provide meaningful purpose and positive motives. 02:08:06 💔 A debate about the existence of God's intervention in suffering and the problem of evil, where Dr. Craig defends the compatibility of God's existence with suffering. 02:18:03 😢 Dr. Craig acknowledges that the emotional problem of evil often stems from an aversion to a God who permits suffering. 02:18:32 🙏 The suffering of Jesus Christ on the cross provides a perspective on human suffering and evil, offering courage and strength to endure it. 02:19:25 🤔 Christian theism can provide understanding of suffering and evil in the world, giving purpose and hope through Christ's sacrifice. 02:20:23 ❓ Addressing theodicy, the challenge of suffering, Hitchens questions the validity of believing in a deity amidst intense human suffering. 02:21:56 🌍 Debates like this arise due to the rise of theocratic challenges and the need to counter the spread of harmful religious ideologies. 02:22:57 💡 The emergence of debates reflects a challenge to the modernity's secular worldview, questioning its consequences and seeking a renaissance of Christian thinking. 02:25:38 ✅ Good societies allow debates; confident faith welcomes them; accomplished scholars make them engaging and productive. 02:26:18 📚 Christopher Hitchens recommends N.T. Wright's books; book signing follows the event. 02:27:26 👋 The event concludes with acknowledgments and thanks to the participants and the university.

[@joshmelendez3086]

thanks

[@gttab1]

Thank you!

[@LGpi314]

Is that chatGPT generated?

[@randominternetguy3537]

​@@LGpi314 nah bro.

[@pleasedontkillme2854]

Best comment here (I love you for this)

[@GazBlacklock-rk2wg]

It's almost impossible to win an argument with a genius. It's even harder to win an arguement with an idiot.

[@Honestandtruth007]

Man, that is very Funny, then Who is it ??? 😅

[@testacer5101]

Storm Blacklock You must be an idiot then

[@toni4729]

You couldn't be more correct.

[@testacer5101]

Mike Biagio How

[@GazBlacklock-rk2wg]

@@testacer5101 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@Burte000]

IDK if someone already said this and it got buried, but the debate starts 13:00

[@LGpi314]

Do you mean WLC low-bar Bill got buried, period? LMAO

[@ogbonnasam9997]

Bless you

[@LGpi314]

@@ogbonnasam9997 Why!?

[@AnantMall]

Although every second of the 13 minutes was enjoyable

[@shuvision576]

No it doesn't mate

[@lesleydavis5229]

How about 2025? Hitchens never gets old. Brilliant man.

[@PipeyThePipeBomb]

He is loser

[@olandoblen5791]

Hitchens never gets old 💀 🫢

@@lesleydavis5229 As a theist, I could name a dozen atheists better at debating his position. It just helps that Craig is one of the lowest of the low - which seems to be Hitchens' comfort zone.

[@yongkangwong5917]

Who?

@yongkangwong5917 Ozymandias Ramses II, Dr. Alex Malpass, I'd personally even put Matt Dillahunty above Hitchens, to name a few

[@D94Rich]

Respect to Biola for actually platforming the opposition and providing a debate that students can derive their own conclusions from. Amazing how only about 6 years after this, the new norm is anything but hearing both sides

[@AJ-mo6mw]

To many universities are nowno longer about learning, but indoctrination, sadly.

[@therealtrucker7564]

This video was posted in 2014. The actual debate was in 2009 and Hitchens died in 2011

[@daleglenny1133]

I wonder what Mr Hitchens would have made of Trump.

[@daleglenny1133]

timothy clancy If you don’t see the connection between religiosity and the current interloper, I can’t help you.

[@daleglenny1133]

timothy clancy didn’t ask for your help. I was just musing.

[@FadedHeroFound]

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[@Car_Mo]

Those 12 word sums up atheism perfectly! Here's another thing i tend to say when people ask why i call myself an atheist: Religious people believe 1 god and reject 999 gods, as an atheist I simply reject all 1000 gods.

[@IR17171717]

@@Car_Mo Well...I mean you aren't actually saying that all religions are equally plausible?

[@FadedHeroFound]

@RUSSIAN ROBOT experiences aren't evidence they are anecdotes

[@YHWHisSovereign]

I agree. Atheism can simply be dismissed. It is a mentally bankrupt belief.

[@FadedHeroFound]

@RUSSIAN ROBOT what evidence do you have for the magic man's existence? Your backwards superstitious nonsense has none

[@jakubekch.3621]

Ahhh yess... The perfect recommendation at 2 am Finally I'll be able to fall asleep questioning my logic and beliefs

[@FabledNarrative]

Don't forget your identity. Staring at the ceiling, late at night, questioning your identity, is not to be forgotten. :P

[@petarvasiljevic8764]

@@FabledNarrative Check your watch every 30 seconds and remember who you are and where you came from :D

[@forgetmenot957]

Same!!!! 😊

[@younggrasshopper3531]

I’ll pray for you today because I’ve struggled similarly. I’ve come to Christ (or Him to me) and I pray you get there too

[@abc-yr8nf]

Night night

It has always been my experience that the more someone QUOTES the Bible, the less they actually KNOW what the Bible is and how it evolved. They can quote reams of verses FROM the Bible, but they can't give you an honest fact ABOUT the Bible.

[@georgemorenstein]

It's a read of rigour when done in earnest, to be sure. Most of the 'Hitch' variety I've encountered, just didn't seem to have the mental acuity required for such an undertaking. Oh well, sadly, it is written "There shall be ransom for the righteous.". His will be done.

[@stevebanning902]

@@georgemorenstein Oooo Well said.

@@georgemorenstein It's a vacuous exercise no matter what level of seriousness the Christian applies. Once again, it is extremely rare to find a modern Christian who actually understands Jesus, It is a fact that the more you understand the Bible, the less you believe in it.

[@georgemorenstein]

Should you not be talking for yourself about that? "The head of man is Jesus. The head of Jesus is God ".

@@georgemorenstein I was raised an evangelical Christian. I then received education in the Bible, Christian apologetics, and textual criticism. I then read everything that was available on the subject the more than 50 gospels, more than 100 epistles, commentaries by church fathers and apologists, and analysis by modern Bible Scholars. At that point, I put on my BIG BOY PANTS, dusted myself off, and turned my back on all the fairy tales.

[@nimo517]

“If we can’t go with a real theory, we go for a conspiracy theory.”

[@TheWisdomRoom]

All animals in Gen 1:20-26 took their evolutionary descent form a single "kind"- Darwin got evolution form his Greek Bible - Genom meaning kind . This video explains it objectively - kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnWxXmecltSXprs

[@michaellie3333]

That depends on how you define the word "real"

[@ob2249]

@@TheWisdomRoom kind, is a nebulous, illdefined, meaningless unscientific term. hovind uses. kent hovind ...? you know ? unqualified renowned creationist moron. kind, as a means to differentiate species is useless. ask some bona fide evolutionary biologists why its bogus. then you will learn something. so you are a biblical evolutionist. lol do we assume you believe noah ? lol an imaginary friend and an imaginary flood?. lol

[@zia9772]

@@TheWisdomRoom Youre tripping we all know that no gods exist, living or dead. Anyone that says that they live by the bible is a complete and total liar.

[@zia9772]

@@TheWisdomRoom Lmmfao. . . You do know that the Greek bible was written in. . . Wait for it. . . GREEK.

[@Thorinbur]

Big thumbs up to BiolaUniversity for being welcoming to opposing views, hosting the debate AND allowing comments. Appreciate it.

[@Relaxpresenter]

is this a scientific based debate or philosophy based debate or even more or thelogical

[@craiggallagher7292]

I do too. I found it quite refreshing to see the evangelical host of the event appeared genuinely welcoming to Hitchens and the atheist/agnostic community in attendance, plus he had a good sense of humor. Bravo.

[@j.c.follower6538]

@@Relaxpresenterwithout God there would be no internet, without God there would be nothing. God is, God was, God is eternal, God is sovereign. He is the beginning the end. I feel sorry for people that don't believe. Whats the point of life. Please don't say evolution, biggest crock ever plus there is no God? Yes there is a God! I can't make someone believe in God. Believing in God takes faith. No one ever made believe, my heart told me , its a feeling of knowing. This is just my opinion.

[@louisvalencia5244]

@@j.c.follower6538 How Christianity is scientific?

[@taargustaargus3139]

@@j.c.follower6538 lol

[@RheT0racle]

the actual debate doesn't start until 0:13:45

[@AllanPatrick7]

Thanks

[@randomguy1221]

God bless your imaginary soul

[@SlatedMoon]

TY so much!!!

[@JP-rf8rr]

Thank you

[@YarJarRar]

Thank you.

[@nikolasjestem1441]

I have noticed different strategies both debators have implemented into the discussion. Dr. Lane Craig: Because there is no explanation for the fine-tuning of the universe, the beginning of universe and morality, it is highly probable that a supernatural being - God, must have caused it all. Hitchens: burden of proof belongs to the claimant, humans have made up religions to fill the knowledge gaps, evolution well-explains the complexity of life, God and religion are not great. Even though Lane Craig's arguments were more philosophical, Christopher definitely wins in criteria of reductio ad absurdum and rhetorical usage.

[@LGpi314]

Even the philosophy of low-bar Bill is laughable. Him trying to hinge on science to prove his god has been debunked too many times.

[@filmeseverin]

@nikolasjestem1441 Because you did not read yet at least my recent threads, if you will keep being rational while reading below *entirely and carefully,* you will understand why Hitchens' arguments are wrong. Regarding the knowledge gaps you mentioned, atheists, in their superficiality, do not want to recognize their limitations. For example, *science will never be able to really know, at least, what a photon is* (the magnification process being infinite). A single photon is like a miniature Universe because the magnification process is infinite (it cannot be stopped). For example: 1/2 > 1/3 > 1/4 > ... 1/n > 1/(n+1) > ... 1/infinite proves that we can go infinitely to smaller numbers greater than zero, which in physics means that we can go infinitely to smaller things, in other words *science will never be able to really know from what this reality is made.* No matter how small a particle is, the system of reference can be decreased to its level of size and see that it is made from smaller things, and so on (this is the infinite involved). In other words, *anything is made from something smaller and also it is included in something bigger.* In addition, all the unbelievers of the proven truths, should not ignore the facts presented in (close to) the end of the video titled: *"Quantum Fields: The Real Building Blocks of the Universe - with David Tong",* which is available on KZbin, to realize that I am right in all my affirmations. In fact, just as billions of cells are needed for us to live this earthly life, in a similar way are required billions of galaxies for the intelligent life to be hosted intentionally to have 100% freedom, like humans on Earth. *Think how wonderful the Creator is, the opposite of a dictator, to create this reality in this way, with 100% freedom. He has told us (in 1 Peter 2,15 - 16) to live in freedom but to not use freedom as a cover-up for evil.* Unfortunately, Satan, the fallen angels, respectively their tools in this world - the evil=stupid humans - have used (are using) the freedom offered by God to do evil intentionally. However, all will be judged 100% correctly by God/Jesus and all will receive what they deserve. The entire evolution of the Universe has nothing against the truth about/from God/Jesus (many parts from the Bible being told metaphorically, not literally, at those times people not having enough knowledge scientifically, but now we can fully understand the metaphors used). For example, the dust from which Adam and Eve have been created is representing their material bodies (parts of this material world), God giving spirit to those material bodies. Eve made from Adam's rib is referring to the X chromosome from the XY. Therefore, Adam and Eve are representing the first hominids species chosen by God to place *the immortal spirits* (cast out from Heaven) and that is why Abel killed by Cain are representing the Neanderthals (Abel) extinct by the Homo Sapiens (Cain). People from many thousands of years ago, when Genesis was written, could not understand exactly (scientifically) how God has created everything, including their ancestors. In brief, evolution is not an argument against God's existence because the entire process until humans time proves the existence of God, *the results of a process proving the intelligence involved into that process* and because *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes.* (see more in my thread, posted 3 days ago, regarding God's eternity) Furthermore, the conventional biological evolution is hiding the facts about Satan and the other fallen angels who, according to the "Parable of the weeds", have altered this world, the DNA... (making the carnivores, the parasites, the viruses, bad bacteria etc....) to sustain the useless suffering while, initially, all insects, animals etc. were feeding only with plants (plants products, such as fruits, nectar, seeds etc.). The fallen angels, being sadistic, have altered the DNA of most living things (including us) to do as default both: reproduce uncontrollably (as much as they can) and fight (kill) each other. Unfortunately, they love to see living things suffering, especially human beings suffering. Because any child is a chance for a soul to escape hell, they want to destroy us since our physical body conception (all the time in any way possible). That is why they make us suffer, as much as possible, by using our stupidity and the stupidity of the other people around us. The problem is with those who have used (are using) their freedom for doing evil on purpose. That is why it is not easy to fight continuously with what Satan has done to this world (carnivores, parasites, viruses, bad bacteria... the so called _"weeds"_ in Matthew 13:24-43) and to ourselves ... because *until our physical death we fight with the works of the fallen angels and of their tools, the evil=stupid people, the consequences of evilness = stupidity.* Therefore, from the first hominids species who have received the immortal spirits (cast out from Heaven to see here the stupidity of using freedom for evil intentionally, done by the fallen angels), the so called metaphorically Adam and Eve, until nowadays, humans have proved by their choices / deeds how evil, respectively how good they were by following or not anymore the fallen angels, in other words by using freedom for evil intentionally or not, by striving to use freedom only for good. My simple and undeniable demonstrations of the truth about/from God/Jesus can be found after sorting the comments.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin Your argument is a tangled mess of baseless claims and incoherent logic. You make sweeping assertions about science's inability to fully understand reality, but these are nothing more than vague, unsubstantiated musings. Saying that science will "never really know" something because of "infinite magnification" is a blatant attempt to undermine established scientific methods without offering any real justification. This is a fallacy, and you have failed to present anything beyond pseudo-scientific nonsense. The attempt to twist evolution into something that "proves" God's existence is equally laughable. You're suggesting that the existence of suffering, natural processes, and evolutionary history somehow points to a divine intelligence, but what you're actually doing is reading into things through a lens of confirmation bias. Evolution, as we understand it, has nothing to do with a supernatural agenda or a divine hand. You can’t just cherry-pick aspects of science and fit them into a biblical framework without distorting reality. Your notion that fallen angels are responsible for altering DNA and creating suffering is an absurd attempt to blame everything on an imaginary supernatural enemy. This kind of thinking does nothing to further understanding or solve real-world problems. It's simply a way to avoid confronting the messiness of reality and the complexity of natural processes. At the end of the day, your arguments lack empirical support, are riddled with contradictions, and are based on an unverifiable worldview that is just as dangerous as it is delusional. You can claim that "the truth about God/Jesus" is undeniable all you want, but when it's based on nonsense, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Your "demonstrations" are nothing more than empty assertions cloaked in religious fervor.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin YOU ARE THE DISHONEST CHRISTIAN AND GOD WILL PUNISH YOU. This wall of text is riddled with fallacies and baseless assertions. Let’s break it down: 1. *"From no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes"* is a blatant argument from ignorance. Just because you can’t comprehend how intelligence arises naturally doesn’t mean a god is the answer. Intelligence in humans evolved through natural processes over billions of years, a fact supported by mountains of evidence in biology and neuroscience. Claiming it requires a prior intelligence is circular reasoning. 2. *"The perfection of mathematics is an important proof for God's perfection"* conflates abstract concepts with reality. Mathematics is a human-created system to describe patterns and relationships; it’s not proof of divine perfection. This is akin to saying that a perfect circle on paper proves a perfect god exists-completely nonsensical. 3. *AI’s alleged concession* about intelligence arising from creation is a misrepresentation of how AI works. AI does what it’s programmed to do-it doesn’t validate philosophical arguments or metaphysical claims. Quoting AI as if it’s a theological authority is absurd and undermines the credibility of the argument. 4. The *self-congratulatory claim* that you’ve disproven atheism and all its arguments while branding dissenters as dishonest is a classic *poisoning the well* fallacy. Labeling opponents as deceitful without addressing their points is intellectually lazy. 5. *The appeal to morality and judgment* -claiming we’re here to prove our goodness to avoid hell-is pure emotional manipulation. It assumes the existence of god, judgment, and hell without providing evidence for any of them. This is circular reasoning, starting with the premise that god exists to argue that god exists. 6. Lastly, the *call to read your comments as "proof" of god's existence* is laughably arrogant. Repeating baseless assertions doesn’t make them true. Proof requires evidence, not self-promotion. This entire argument boils down to personal belief masquerading as fact, riddled with logical fallacies, and a refusal to engage with actual evidence or counterarguments.

[@jivet3919]

The universe is not “fine tuned”, it just is. We humans and our analysis of it see it as that

[@alibarznji2000]

"I never tire of debating religious people, because you never know what they´re gonna say next" -Christopher Hitchens

[@adharmi3458]

Posted 25 mins ago... you're the chosen one

[@alibarznji2000]

@@adharmi3458 lol

[@filmeseverin]

Christopher Hitchens was in error regarding the truth from/about God/Jesus. I have been, also, an atheist until the vision received.

[@alibarznji2000]

@@filmeseverin really? some historian said that some people said Jesus was not in his grave and that makes you believe he is God? could you be any more gullible?

[@alibarznji2000]

@Subutai I´m an atheist, and fuck you if that guys a murtad in your eyes.

[@LGpi314]

"Threatening an atheist with hell is like threatening to punch them in the aura." that's hilarious

[@markusbaker1161]

Hahahaha 😂😂😂 needed a laugh!!!

[@LGpi314]

@@markusbaker1161 You are always welcome.

[@Rizwan-vs1lg]

Atheists are stupid. They aren't that skeptical when it comes to day to day life and somehow become very skeptical when it comes to God. They can't define the criterion for proof or disproof, just try very hard to stick with their lunacy with stupid arguments.

[@malcolmmitchell4709]

Warning an atheist about Hell is like warning 18th century peasant digging up clumps of peat for fuel about climate change

[@LGpi314]

@@malcolmmitchell4709 "Warning an atheist about Hell" You sure can try. I as an atheist don't believe in hell so I'm good.

[@rubenb8653]

religious debates: organised by christians, super popular with atheists :p

[@2002THEBOY]

lol christian love debate

[@avagantamos2853]

@Charles George How is debating foolish? Maybe if you think there's no way someone can be convinced.

[@avagantamos2853]

@Charles George That seems like a very basic view, seeing that many atheists come from theistic backgrounds and claim to have felt the presence of god before

[@Erik-lq4eo]

@Charles George what do you mean by both contain truth? and what experience did you have? No matter what it is, what do you think about all the people who had experiences of other religions? or stuff like aliens? how can your experience confirm there is a god when perception is flawed and the human mind is incredibly vulnerable to delusions?

[@nicktigert9416]

@Charles George you said it brother! You can only understand through your own experience, and you existing is an experience whether you accept it or not and one that doesn’t lack intelligent design. No chicken before the egg 🖖🏼

[@aayushimalviya1203]

It's nice to hear William Craig talk in 2024. It takes me back to my childhood days when records would often get stuck in a loop

[@LGpi314]

Nowadays WLC supports genocide as long as his god does. LMAO

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.

[@maxs5504]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 You are yapping nonsense. You have no evidence besides a self-contradictory, ancient, moronic book to back up your assertions. You are not intellectual, you are ideological.

[@mjabdelrazzaq]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Stop going to every Hitch video and commenting the same peculiar message. I’m sick of seeing it all over. If you keep it at home, we wouldn’t be having all these debates to begin with.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@mjabdelrazzaq If I knew you were in the way of incoming traffic id pull you out of the way. Likewise, if you were in a burning building, I’d pull you out as well. What you don’t realise is your soul is on fire hence the preaching. The word of God is offensive to you right now but once you become a Christian you will realise the awesomeness of God and what love really is. Is it annoying if a doctor says you have cancer and shows you the cure?

[@chowdhurylinianazmi5615]

Hats off to the audience, organizers and participants of debate! They differ in their opinions wildly but they were so nice in presenting their differences... hope that could be the case for the rest of the world one day!

[@enaremco]

Yes, we can only hope that in the future we will become as One World.

[@russ8156]

R u Muslim?

[@Bdots44]

@David Mutchler stfu simp

[@authorbhattacharjee4957]

@David Mutchler You thirsty as f bruh

[@jonlovett9857]

@@enaremco well said

[@stevenfisher3134]

Why don’t our political debates happen this respectful, calm and rationally.

[@disgruntledmum4916]

Appealing to emotion and playing to the audience is far more visually entertaining than reasoned discussion. If politicians had to build a convincing argument and cite facts as a basis, the population would realise they make it up as they go along.

[@alexgarcia9852]

i know right man i hope i woud be like that

[@joefisher7792]

Because they give a person just so much power

[@guardofrr]

Because they rid themselves of the intelligentsia because they thought it would be wise Now public opinion is formed by directly involving the people in discussions instead of letting them be arbiters between intellectuals, the only thing the people are somewhat good at Bought and paid for 'intellectuals' telling the people what to think, the rise of the term 'intellectual honesty' while it was supposed to be integral The 'dangers' of having capable intellectuals, debaters, ruining establishment narratives A new order based on fear and control brought by certified intellectuals and technocrats

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Although, of course, for much of religious history, theologians were often very much like how Jaap Aap describes, too...

[@erikpierce7555]

Dr. Craig just won't let go of the argument that "Christopher has not presented any arguments that atheism is true." Hitchens addressed this directly multiple times....... In one ear and out the other..... and rather quickly

[@unforgiven9020]

Because it's his job

[@CedanyTheAlaskan]

Hm, similar can be said about Hitchens.

[@ChillAssTurtle]

Craig is a psychotic lunatic

[@lossnt557]

Yeah it was pretty frustrating when he would return to that tactic.

[@lossnt557]

@@CedanyTheAlaskan I don't think Hitchens did so to anywhere near the same degree or against similarly valid criticism. Craig started with basically that exact same line at the beginning of each of his arguments, Hitchens at least attempted to deconstruct his arguments thoughtfully and with adaptability. I don't think the same can be said for Craig.

[@ബെഞ്ചമിൻ_കിർബി_ടെന്നിസൻ]

Craig really couldn't answer the question of problem of evil

[@filmeseverin]

There are two kinds of suffering: the useful suffering, which allows us, for example, to know when something affects our body etc. and the useless suffering caused only by evilness=stupidity because *all evil has been done due to stupidity and the main/worst stupidity has always been the not listening to God/Jesus.* In particular, for mankind, if ALL people (over history and nowadays) would have followed the main commandment from Jesus Christ, *besides to love / respect our Heavenly Father, to love / respect (care for) the other humans as we love / respect (care for) ourselves,* all the crimes and the tremendous useless suffering would have never happen. Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately: - so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War); - so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc. - sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general. We should never fight against each other but only against our lack of useful knowledge / wisdom (for decreasing our ignorance), while loving / respecting each other as we love / respect ourselves, these being the main requests of God/Jesus. Therefore, both true/useful science and proper education are very important to understand God's creation and what is better, regarding the human behavior, so that ALL of us can be not only happier in our ephemera life into this world (while we are still alive here) but also deserving, or at least allowable, for perpetual life in Heaven (after leaving this world).

[@filmeseverin]

Many people seem to not realize that for God, the Creator of everything, including time, not being bounded by what He has created, being _"the beginning and the end,"_ *this world has already ended* (all free human choices / deeds being recorded for what all will perceive as the Last Judgment). That is why God knows the using of our free will. That is why the Bible has exact prophecies, like the followings listed below: - The future will be like in the days of Sodom. Luke 17, 28 30 - People will deny that GOD has created the universe. 2 Peter 3:3-9 - The message of the Gospel will reach all the nations. Matthew 24,14 - The future will become frightening. Luke 21, 26 (just few examples: the global warming terrific effects, the third world war final preparations, Corona virus etc.) - Blasphemy and wicked behavior will be commonplace. 2 Timothy 3,1-9 - There will be money hungry preachers who deceive Christians and lead them away from the truth. 2 Peter 2,1-3 - Scoffers will mock also the Second Coming by claiming these signs have always been around. 2 Peter 3, 3 4 After hearing the truth about/from God/Jesus, only those who want to use freedom for evil are opposing to Divinity, feeling their freedom restricted, the really good humans being happy to receive the confirmation for their love of / striving for goodness, wisdom, justice... for perfection, as Jesus Christ has said: *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this. Here is not Heaven. This short earthly life is a school and exam for our immortal souls (us), for those who did not listen by the Creator to understand the value of "light" without experiencing the "darkness". This reality has been created intentionally so that freedom to be 100% offered, God rewarding accordingly the *free* choices/deeds *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 The problem is with those who have used (are using) their freedom for doing evil on purpose. That is why it is not easy to fight continuously with what Satan has done to this world (carnivores, parasites, viruses, bad bacteria... the so called _"weeds"_ in Matthew 13:24-43) and to ourselves ... because *until our physical death we fight with the works of the fallen angels and of their tools, the evil=stupid people, the consequences of evilness = stupidity.*

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin Bla bla bla. Give up nobody believes anything you say. Ah yes, the classic claim that all suffering, war, and destruction are caused by people not obeying Jesus. Because, of course, the world was a peaceful utopia before Christianity, and all believers have always been paragons of virtue. Never mind the countless atrocities committed in the name of Christianity-Crusades, Inquisitions, witch hunts, colonial genocides, religious wars, child abuse scandals-the list goes on. But no, let’s pretend that the problem is *not enough* obedience to your particular deity. And what’s with this ridiculous fantasy that belief in Jesus would have magically solved every problem? That’s just wishful thinking dressed up as morality. Humans are flawed, selfish, and tribal creatures, and no religious commandment has ever changed that. People justify their actions-good or evil-through whatever ideology suits them, including Christianity. History proves it. As for this nonsense about a Third World War wiping out billions, that’s just fear-mongering wrapped in religious fatalism. "Believe or else!"-how convenient. And yet, the most secular, scientifically advanced nations tend to have *less* crime, *less* war, and *better* standards of living than the most religious ones. Funny how reality doesn’t align with your prophecy. The real problem isn’t a lack of belief in Jesus; it’s blind faith that stifles critical thinking, justifies atrocities, and demands obedience instead of solutions. You want a better world? Try rationality, ethics, and science-not ancient superstition wrapped in self-righteous fear tactics.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin Ah yes, the same tired, delusional nonsense repackaged as divine wisdom. The idea that "god exists outside of time" is just a convenient excuse to wave away contradictions. If he already knows every choice people will make, then free will is a joke-an illusion created so believers can pretend their god isn’t responsible for the suffering and evil in the world. But if this "loving god" set it all up knowing full well that most of humanity would fail his arbitrary test and be doomed to eternal punishment, then he isn’t loving-he’s a sadistic tyrant playing a rigged game. And these so-called "exact prophecies"? Laughable. - "Like the days of Sodom"-people have always claimed society is morally declining. Every generation thinks the next one is worse. - "People will deny god created the universe"-of course, because science actually explains things instead of relying on outdated mythology. - "The Gospel will reach all nations"-well, yeah, because of globalization, colonialism, and forced conversions, not divine prophecy. - "The future will be frightening"-no kidding. Life has always been uncertain, but now we have *real* threats like climate change, war, and disease-not the imaginary wrath of a celestial dictator. - "Blasphemy and wickedness will be commonplace"-translation: people aren’t blindly obeying the church anymore. - "Money-hungry preachers will deceive Christians"-yes, they’re called televangelists, Catholic priests, megachurch pastors, and prosperity gospel frauds. Christianity is a multi-billion-dollar industry built on guilt and fear. - "Scoffers will mock the Second Coming"-because every failed prediction makes it more ridiculous. How many times has the world been *supposed* to end? Spoiler: it never does. And this nonsense about "this life being a school and exam"-who decided that? Who benefits from people accepting their suffering as a divine test instead of fighting for a better world? Oh right, those in power-the same ones who have been using religion to control people for millennia. If your god is all-powerful and truly good, he wouldn’t need to test anyone, and he certainly wouldn’t need to watch people suffer to appreciate "the light." That’s some deranged, abuser logic. As for your ridiculous claim that suffering is caused by "Satan and his stupid followers," maybe take a look at reality. The suffering in the world is caused by human greed, ignorance, and natural disasters-not some invisible boogeyman whispering in people’s ears. If parasites, carnivores, and viruses are all part of some cosmic battle, then your god is either incompetent or just as guilty as your so-called devil for letting it happen. The real problem isn’t that people reject your god-it’s that religious fanatics like you think they deserve to suffer for daring to think for themselves. If there were a divine judgment, it would be against those who demand blind obedience, not those who seek truth and justice without groveling before a celestial dictator.

[@miKg8319]

No theists can. I can see how deist could.

[@coconejococonejo]

That's the good thing about science, it's true whether you believe in it or not.

[@ikawpipa]

Thank God for Science.

[@coconejococonejo]

Joe L god has nothing to do with science because he doesn't exist

[@ikawpipa]

Fish became Humans, and that is science folks.

[@ikawpipa]

Humans came from a Fish. is this scientific or appealing to emotions?

[@ikawpipa]

so where did Humans come from?

[@DanielJaegerFilms]

If only our presidential debates could be like this. Super organized, well planned, mutual respect to both sides and both sides bringing excellent points to the audience for them to make their own decisions. Very well done.

[@B.S...]

@@CosmoPhiloPharmaco Not so fast Doctor Schrodinger, Hitchens brought the only indisputable fact to the debate - 99% of all species have gone extinct. A contradiction of Genesis and therefore a contradiction of omnipotent and omniscient creation. Genesis isn't just pre-scientific ignorance it's legitimate reality to a fundamentalist, which btw Craig is not. Craig is trying to circumvent biblical dogma and suggest (with misquotes and misuse of scientific data) that a good god is consistent with imperfection. Craig's view on the problem of evil is borderline morally corrupt.

[@filmeseverin]

My messages are deleted (right after I post them), as/like a censorship against the truth is happening from time to time.

[@filmeseverin]

As there are billions of cells required for us to be able to live this earthly life, in the same way there are required billions of galaxies for the intelligent life to be created intentionally to have 100% freedom, like humans on Earth (think how wonderful the Creator is, the opposite of a dictator, to create this reality in this way, with 100% freedom). He has told us to live in freedom but to not use freedom as a cover-up for evil. Unfortunately, Satan, the fallen angels, respectively their tools in this reality - the evil=stupid humans - have used (are using) the freedom offered by God to do evil. Most atheists do not know *the Parable of the weeds,* which implies that the fallen angels, ruled by Satan, have altered this world, the DNA... (even the Bible),... making the carnivores, the parasites, the viruses, bad bacteria etc.... all the havoc... all the killings, so that those who do not want to follow God's perfection into their life, to be able to make excuses to not believe the truth. Initially, all insects, animals etc. were feeding only with plants (plants products, such as fruits, nectar, seeds etc.).

[@tomjackson7755]

@@filmeseverin Exactly as I said in my previous message, the "filmeseverin" user is repeatedly doing the same thing: He is spreading lies about me and trolling the same debunked cut and pastes of lies. Regardless of the continuous lying and false accusations, from such deniers who have no argument to support their denial, the truth is only one: filmeseverin is a lying troll. To the readers you will notice how his broken English comes and goes. You will also notice he pretends to be from a European communist country yet posts on an east coast of America schedule. You will also notice that he responds to his own comment and even edits his cut and pastes and changes nothing. He does this so no notification shows up to who he is responding to. You will also notice that this Liar will post multiple posts to get the comment count to end in a 5 or 0 like lying trolls do. This Liar also likes his own comments like a troll. Every thing about this Liar is fake. There is no need to post any more arguments against his lies because it has been done over and over and he just ignores them and posts one of these cut and pastes. The only thing left to do is ask why. So here it is for the more than the hundredth time. Why do you keep posting these lies?

[@tomjackson7755]

@@filmeseverin You forgot to like one of your own comments, lying troll.

[@xerxes5785]

Hitchens explained to him like 10 times in different ways, why he doesn’t have to prove a non-existence, that the burden of proof is on the person who’s making the claim. Then every single time he went and repeated the same thing “We haven’t heard any good arguments of why Atheism is real!” It’s like what this person wrote in his book “Whenever you are presented with the contradictory evidence you should always choose your faith over that” is actually true. No matter what anyone says or what evidence you are presented with, all you gotta do is repeat the same nonsense as you always have...

[@kevinharmoning7609]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmfHq3ive7J_fKs

[@TmanT321]

Atheism is real whether they like it or not. "Atheism" is the rejection of any god of any kind. It's a belief and it exists, so therefore it is obviously real. He could replace the word "atheist" here with any other religion and make the same shitty argument lol, except that would equate to his religion as well so he can't he has to use Atheism because "atheists evil".

[@dupersuper1000]

@@TmanT321 What do you mean by “atheism exists”? And how does that imply a burden of proof in any way? Seriously, it doesn’t logically follow. Look, atheism simply doesn’t mean “positive belief that no gods exist.” There is a smaller subset of atheism that does make that claim, but it’s just a subset. Craig knows this, and he even admits it when he accidentally slips up and says the phrase “also known as *positive* atheism”. He’s just playing word games to force Hitchens to accept a burden of proof that doesn’t really belong to him. And that whole idea is ridiculous in other ways. If we all start out as blank slates, without any real knowledge of the universe, then we don’t know about any gods, the entire concept of god is foreign to us. We start off just investigating the world and forming mental models to explain it. If we don’t start with knowledge of “deity” as a concept or category, then we simply don’t have any claims at all about deities. It’s only when a religious person *introduces a claim* about their god that we even begin to consider such a claim. And even then, we are not obligated to form a belief in one direction or the other. We can just accept “I don’t know” as a final answer on the matter. The challenge for theists is that they can’t say “I don’t know.” They can say something like “I can’t prove it,” which is a different thing, but the foundation of their worldview is that they DO know. They are asserting a truth claim about a deity that they have to go out of their way to describe and define, which further demonstrates that they are the ones introducing a claim to an otherwise claim-free context. If you really want to talk about other religions, then let’s go there. Does a Buddhist child raised in a remote Buddhist village have any idea what you mean by “god” when you ask her? Probably not. She hasn’t been introduced to the concept of “god”, and is content with a religious worldview that doesn’t require any notion of “god”. So she doesn’t have a claim for or against the existence of a god. If you explained what a “god” is to her, and told her you think your god exists, she might just shrug her shoulders and say, “Sure, I guess that is possible, but it really doesn’t affect my worldview in any way.” Or she might say, “That idea sounds silly, but you are welcome to demonstrate the truth of your claim. I don’t have a reason to believe it until you provide a lot more evidence.” The only reason it would ever make sense for atheists to bear the burden of proof is if we *assume a priori* that God exists, and that the evidence for God is shown to everyone everywhere, for all time. If that were the case, then sure, it would make sense for everyone to be expected to have some kind of opinion about it (although it’s still fair to say “I don’t know”). This is the presuppositionalist argument, and it’s inherently circular, since it presupposes God’s existence as a premise in an argument for God’s existence. And Craig is certainly not a presuppositionalist.

[@dupersuper1000]

@Frank Silvers I think I explained it pretty well in my above comment. Is there anything in there that doesn’t make sense to you?

[@TmanT321]

​@@dupersuper1000 Yes, the entire thing. Please go back to your cult meetings and leave the smart people to move the world forward. The burden of proof lies with you, because you claim something exists. If you accuse someone of a crime, the burden of proof falls on you to give evidence for that crime. The person being accused does not have to prove something that did not happen. That's why we have the fifth amendment. The same logic follows with god. You claim the bible it true, therefore you must provide outside evidence, but you cannot. You are a sentient lugnut.

[@andrewdegroot5247]

Hitchens calling the Putin regime a dictatorship in 2009....Who is watching this in 2024?

[@millbrook7384]

I mean, he got 88% of the vote, so clearly he is the preferred candidate… 😂😅🧐🥸🫡😵

[@grahamrogers3345]

Hitchens was a war monger

[@mrsatire9475]

@@millbrook7384 Not as preferred as the human God Kim Jung Il 😂😅🧐🥸🫡😵

[@Funça_do_ancapistão]

​@@millbrook7384 imagine believing that

[@dennis_duran]

@@Funça_do_ancapistãosarcasm

[@akramkhanfir7469]

Regardless of the content of this video, I think we should all salute the quality of the debate !! It was so highly civilized, respectful and organized that I "a third language English speaker" could fully understand and keep up with the argumentation and the logic followed by each of the debaters. I'm from Tunisia, an Arabic country in north Africa, where this kind of debates might never take place, and if it ever does, there won't be that many of an audience to attend it, as the population doesn't really seek to prove or to disprove their belief, and they are just ok with keeping their faith as it is without shaking it with doubt even if that would actually strengthen their religious view. I felt so badly urged to comment on this video, for its value and importance for the freedom of speech, of questioning, criticizing and arguing what is sacred or taboo to others. Thank you BiolaUniversity for publishing this online, so could I and many others around the world benefit of this high quality debate, that we can't host in our countries depriving its people of their right to discuss the matters that society forbids.

[@lbourrou]

Since you say you are Tunisian and that English is your "third language", let me make a bet on what is you "second language": Bienvenue dans le monde de la pensée critique Akram :)

[@akramkhanfir7469]

@@lbourrou Merci haha :)

[@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl]

If it would be the only good thing the Arab world could learn from the "West", than it´s vital for a society to be openly discuss all relevant things humans are "touched" by. I know there are several attempts in societies like yours to do it like here and I hope people go this way everywhere, because it prevents us from totalitarianism in every form. Stay safe and curious, maybe you yourself become the "savior" of your broken society. My thoughts are with you!

[@davewalt1781]

Akram, your English is very good for a 3rd language. And I really appreciate your post. But I wonder, who do you agree with, Hitchens or Craig. I can assure you 100% that Craig has the truth. There is the one true God in heaven who loves us and sent His Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross, to pay the price for our sins. And Christ is coming back again someday to take His children home. May God bless you richly.

[@akramkhanfir7469]

@@davewalt1781 Thanks :) without taking any position, and just considering the fact that both of them are struggling or trying hard to convince, only means that the existence of God isn't really that obvious or undeniable ! It is still under debating and argumentation, and we are not certain. My personal opinion, is that "I don't know" but I won't take religion as a final answer. Religion won't stop my curiosity to know the truth, I will keep looking and I will simply admit my current ignorance based on lack of proof. That's why I appreciate this kind of conversations, because I learn !

[@SerendipitousProvidence]

Pft, amateurs! I came to hear from the real expert theologians and scientists and unprecedented philosophy prodigies in the comment section.

[@Alex-yr8iy]

Same here

[@Reignor99]

I paused at 0:01 and scrolled down immediately lol. But I've probably already seen this debate anyways.

[@ossiedunstan4419]

@Thomas Jefferson You got evidence for the disciple's , bit of conformation bias along with large does ignorant happening here.The bible is the claim ,you cant use the bible as evidence ,its not.

[@ohmahfoot3995]

@@ossiedunstan4419 if you don’t mind clarifying for me, why can’t the Bible be used as evidence?

[@johnbuell8035]

@@ohmahfoot3995 I’ll clarify that for you. Because it’s a load of bollocks. I think that cuts to the chase.

[@jtg1972]

Theism: "God exists." Atheism: "I don't believe you." Very simple concept.

[@harrysager8903]

Where does personal experience fall into this? Have an unreal story about my firm belief in Jesus after some incredible circumstances!

[@harrysager8903]

@TJordan14 You don't know or have enough info to make an intelligent decision about this.

[@NewtonVieira]

God created this universe A big blast occurred out of nowhere. Both require extraordinary faith 😂

[@jtg1972]

@@NewtonVieira wrong. Faith is belief in something with no evidence to support it. Science doesn't claim anything to be absolute, simply the best case scenario. Religion is the one who makes absolute claims, with nothing to back it up. Not to mention the fact that the claims science makes are demonstrable and verifiable. Can't say the same about religion!😜

[@NewtonVieira]

@@jtg1972 execept there is no evidence pointing to a big bang but its widely accepted by scientists 🤷‍♂️

[@danielbundalian6659]

I didn’t come for the two very well educated men that engaged in a debate. I came for the REAL educated experts in this comment section. Edit: Y’allwent crazy on my comment LOL. I can spot the “educated experts” that have no idea what they’re talking about (Looking at you Atheist)! Though some of you atheists bring up good points consistent with other educated atheist, a lot of you are kinda failing lol. Keep going y’all, it’s fun to watch and get a fricking email every time someone comments :/

[@tomgreene2282]

I hope you are not disappointed....?

[@DiboraBinebeb]

Ahahahagha same

[@hopaideia]

Being a cubs fan, it's understandable

[@Legorreta.M.D]

2 well educated men in the debate? I hope you do not mean that, since "Dr." Craig has still not understood what atheism is and is perfectly happy to openly show how ignorant he is on basic biology and evolution

[@topcatcoolio8807]

Oh that's me then 😄

[@leftalonetalking991]

"It seam to me you redefine Atheism to mean a sort of A-theism" Hitchens - "That's what it means"

[@michaelwatts1445]

1:19:30 btw

[@Gustavo-so7zk]

Left Alone Talking Except for the fact that Hitchens completely dodges the question of whether he is an atheist or not. Throughout the entire debate he argues in a completely agnostic way as opposed to addressing Craig’s arguments. It’s easy to pick out catchy quotes like that one, but Hitchens was outclassed here.

[@SomeoneElse-]

@@Gustavo-so7zk Craig doesn't even know the correct definition of atheism but somehow he "outclassed" Hitchens. Ok.

[@citizenghosttown]

@@Gustavo-so7zk Hitchens does not dodge the question of whether he's an atheist. He's tackles it head on and, most importantly, explains what he means by atheist. Craig, on the other hand, is just playing games.

[@Gustavo-so7zk]

Appolo Hitchens thinks atheism is agnosticism, and it seems like you do too. The way these debates are structured the burden of proof is also on the atheist to prove the natural universe is better explained without a God, or to disprove God.

[@robert-parsifal-finch]

There is a dreadful apologue for christianity with answers to everything. And none of it answers anything.

[@americannacho]

back when people weren't terrified of opposing views

[@LGpi314]

Every time I see a theist accusing atheists of attacking them, I think of this quote: “Religious apologists complain bitterly that Atheists and Secularists are aggressive and hostile in their criticism of them. I always say: look, when you guys were in charge, you didn’t argue with us, you just burnt us at the stake. Now what we’re doing is, we’re presenting you with some arguments and some challenging questions, and you complain.” - A.C. Grayling

[@RosaSilva-bq5sp]

​@@LGpi314son resentidos porque la religión se les impuso y se les dominó.

[@luciennoxisou9502]

where are people terrified of opposing views?

[@americannacho]

@@luciennoxisou9502 are you that out of touch? or just too young to notice the shift? they run this very platform my guy 😂 we can barely have real discussion or debate on serious topics now due to people who think the solution to "bad ideas" isn't better ideas.. rather its just to ban the "bad ideas"

[@luciennoxisou9502]

@@americannacho lol, huh - I’m probably older than you, but what context or platforms are you talking about wherein all this debate is not occurring ? Mainstream media ? Academia ? On the street ? Social media ?

[@nunomedeiros8390]

Things in this video, not possible to see in 2023: 1 - Everyone respect eachothers ideas without need to bully one another 2 - Get straight answers like yes or no 3 - putting some jokes on serious conversations actual releaf tension 4 - The audience are in fact listning two diferents ideas and reflecting on them, no matter wish side they are from 5 - The audience also respect silence 6 - conversations with more then 20 words and without "like", hum"or "so" put after every 2 or 3 words

[@KWH616]

debate bros have ruined debates, WLC however is a slippery little worm i this debate.

[@richardgoss4777]

​@KWH616 I don't think that is a fair assessment. *He does concede on certain points. He is arguing for a personal God as manifested in the image of Christ. He is very clear on that. He does put it on Hitchens on the objectivity of morality, something that Hitchens is unable to address with his worldview. This was a good debate but there's better.

[@ivanferguson1574]

Regardless of is wright or wrong,there is a God,and can be proven by me

[@ivanferguson1574]

Also the Gentlemen who did not believe there is a God I under stand his point,and he had a Good one, the christian/believers never proven that there is a God If there is a God why the world is such a terrsble place, and he is 100% right The problem we never start of wright,and no one question our direction,becsuse your Bible says be afraid and Never question God Thats our down foll

[@Johnnybravo40]

@@ivanferguson1574 yes, I was honestly surprised Hitchens never mentions the burden of proof being on a person who claims a thing to be true. In this case, the claim is that God exists, the claim is not made that God does not exist. Also Craig never provides any proof despite claiming to do so. His reasoning is entirely circular, ultimately always coming back to the necessity of faith and was also built around making an equal comparison of belief and non belief. I mean if I told you a dragon was circling Venus, you should ask me to prove it. And if I instead told you to prove me wrong, that would be an absurd request. Such is the request of Craig given to Hitchens. To not believe in a dragon circling Venus is not the same as saying "I know for certain that there is not a dragon circling Venus". And this was the distinction Hitchens made many times about Atheism being non-belief, and not a mindset of certainty God is not real. It is a mindset of thinking God is almost certainly not real, just like many other things are almost certainly unreal, like Unicorns, Dragons, Fairies, ghosts, ext.

[@Margo714P]

2:03:06 Is Craig actually blaming the ancient Israelites for committing genocide without God commanding them to do so? This is bizarre.

[@IIrandhandleII]

Many of his arguments need to skip over or revise religious injunctions for grotesque violence. He's forced to do so.

[@rs7656]

@@IIrandhandleIILiterally forced to. To work at Biola, he had to sign an agreement that his employment is dependent on his belief in the resurrection, and the inerrancy of the bible

[@IIrandhandleII]

@@rs7656 wow, that is crazy.... didn't know that. He is under contract to believe in noahs ark..... wow.

[@rs7656]

@@IIrandhandleII Someone once asked for a source, so I started looking into it. Turns out the vast majority of the Evangelical based universities in the USA demand their employees sign a similar agreement. You can find the information on their websites.

[@IIrandhandleII]

@@rs7656 that is a bit scary.

[@NancyVasta]

To the Theist.”You are saying nothing and you are saying it too loudly”

[@filmeseverin]

Regarding the superficial ones, the unbelievers of the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth, only those too deceived will not sort the comments to read *entirely and carefully* all my demonstrations (which prove their errors) just to keep their deceiving. Furthermore, only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin Christianity is fake. It stole pretty much everything from other earlier religions and the same way Islam did with small modifications. The is no evidence of a global flood, there is no evidence that jesus as the son of god or Moses ever existed, and the resurrection was stolen from Julius Caesar's resurrection. No resurrection. Snakes and donkeys do not talk. Genesis is full of contradictions. Earth is not 6000 years old. ALL THOSE ARE LIES. People now know and leaving the religion for what it is CULT.

[@holdmusic_]

Lane Craig: master of gaslighting himself. First line of the questions: "Let's talk first about whether there are any good arguments to think that atheism is true" - at 1:19:22 into the debate, he demonstrates he hasn't listened to a word Hitchens has said

[@universalis8208]

Addressing the literal question that the debate is about in the most simplest introduction is not gas lighting lol

[@holdmusic_]

@@universalis8208 that would be fine if Lane Craig didn't actually believe the bullshit he's defending - it's easy to see how morons like him would be quick to dismiss that though. Congratulations lol

[@holdmusic_]

@@universalis8208 You're dense. I'm not saying he's not addressing the debate. I'm saying he believes his position. Work on your comprehension

[@SerMattzio]

Near the end Craig argues that God's moral reason for creating a world where people suffer terribly at random is because this may be the kind of world needed for their salvation. Earlier he was arguing that life itself is a journey to earn your salvation. Not only does the idea that people are intentionally born by God to suffer horrendously and then die of malnutrition or warfare in some countries seem like repulsive insanity to me, but how is God allowing someone who dies 5 minutes after childbirth to "earn their salvation"? These arguments are complete nonsense.

[@kylebernadyn2465]

Then what of the Canaanite children and Mennonite children who were torn from their mothers’ stomachs and literally dashed on the rocks? Where does their salvation lie? Or was that the drive-thru version of achieving salvation? Or as Hitchens mentioned, the at least 98,000 years of children who never knew of The Word, including their parents and families. Where lies their salvation? The issues arises in the fact that if god exists, he has the ability have every single person be aware of his existence and message yet, as human history has shown us, only a select few have had that privilege it seems. Any subsequent punishment for the charge of apostasy then is inherently and ridiculously immoral and unbecoming of any being that deserves respect.

[@kylebernadyn2465]

Plus, depending on who you believe, Jesus wasn’t god. You would have to reconcile that verse with Yahweh’s decision to kill every firstborn son in Egypt. Did Yahweh just get it wrong the first go-around?

[@surplusrevenge2013]

SerMattzio Btw I say the above despite me thinking that Craig, while having the opposite view to mine, pretty decisively won this debate.

[@SerMattzio]

@@surplusrevenge2013 Interesting assessment! Personally I think he got annihilated. He shouts very loudly but ultimately every one of his logical arguments is incredibly flawed IMO - and he makes many self-contradictory arguments too. If Hitchens had any weaknesses in the debate it was that he didn't engage him directly on these enormous flaws.

[@atomisedman6235]

@@surplusrevenge2013 He simply repackaged the same old arguments in new fallacies

[@peterjones5004]

A rich man asked Jesus. How can I get into heaven to which Jesus said give all your worldly wealth to the poor. Why doesn’t the church do that .

[@graenovember]

The church's wealth is used to build and maintain hospitals, charities and for other humanitarian purposes. I'm sure not all is for good though, but majority of it is for good. In the early Church of St. Peter, the people gave their wealth to him so that everyone shared wealth and had what they need. No one was without. The same thing is done by the Church now but on a much grander scale. Some of the Church's wealth is used to renovate old churches to attract more church goers and for other humanitarian reasons.

[@graenovember]

They do give their wealth to the poor. You may say, "Then why is the Vatican so grand and beautiful?" Well, that took many years to build and art is art. It's treated as a holy place also for the congregation of Catholics and Christians so it serves a good purpose. The Vatican now only spends in maintainence and not too much on making new things without reason.

[@amonks891]

Rae Estomata then they should use the money they aren’t spending on patronage to further alleviate the poor, perhaps even enough to make a significant difference to the worldwide poverty scene.

[@graenovember]

@@amonks891 to be fair, poverty is a reoccuring problem that really depends on the government and other high-profile companies. I don't know how much money you think the Church has but you have to consider the amount to pay for tax on property and all the other small things that run a building/organization. You can ask the same thing of big companies like Microsoft who donate much to charity because they are required to. And yet, poverty still exists in the world. The Church alone selling all they have or just giving everything away will not help the poor forever, but it will cause current charities, hospitals, and churches they have to collapse. Poverty is solved by multiple people (govt, individuals, large companies) and cannot be shouldered by the Church alone.

[@graenovember]

@@amonks891 to add to that, the Church in itself is a sanctuary for criminals or people in need. There's that law that dictates if someone asks for sanctuary in a church or seminary, the government can't touch them. It's not a one-all-be-all effort the Church does to help the poor. It's a continuous process that exists to help them because giving away everyting at one moment will only last for a short while. They already do have programs for the poor but it depends on what country you are in.

[@geno81]

I have to say, listening to Dr Craig is really painful. He is simply not listening to Christopher at all and to be quite frank, he sounds like a religious fanatic or lunatic and just like any fanatic, no matter how good an argument is, if it goes against anything they have been taught, they just won't accept it.

[@LGpi314]

low-bar Bill. That is all I'm going to say.

[@filmeseverin]

@geno81 Atheists cannot answer seriously to the *Are you and this world the result of no intelligence?* question, otherwise, they would have to admit the existence of God, because *from no intelligence involved no intelligence comes.* That is why, for example, George Enescu has said: "In my humble opinion, you have to be really naive to seriously declare that God does not exist." By the way, those who sort the comments and read enough from my posts (both answers and threads) can see that *I have proved* that this reality has been created by an eternal perfect Intelligence (called God / the Creator) whose nature will never be really comprehended by humans (because of our proved limitations) except through Jesus Christ, the human form of God.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin More bullcrap and still no evidence of your god or any other gods. Reposted as S P A M 1. *"From no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes":* This is a blatant case of circular reasoning. You assume intelligence must be the source of all intelligence and then present this assumption as proof. That’s not logic; that’s intellectual laziness. Evolutionary biology and neuroscience explain how intelligence emerges from simpler processes. You’d know this if you bothered to read a science textbook instead of clinging to simplistic platitudes. 2. *"The perfection of mathematics proves God's perfection":* This is a category error. Mathematics is a human-created system to describe patterns and relationships-it doesn't "prove" anything about supernatural beings. Claiming math is "perfect" only highlights your shallow understanding of both math and reality. Math reflects the consistency of the universe, not some divine perfection. 3. *"Photons and atoms have intelligence":* This is sheer nonsense and demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of physics and chemistry. Photons and atoms don’t have "intelligence"; they follow natural laws. Saying they’re "intelligent" because they behave predictably is like saying a rock is intelligent for staying on the ground when you drop it. 4. *"God is eternal and not bound by time":* This is just a baseless assertion. You’re asking us to accept your claim without evidence while also dismissing the need for evidence because "God is beyond comprehension." That’s not an argument-it’s an evasion. If God is so incomprehensible, how can you claim to know anything about Him, let alone His motives or attributes? 5. *"God hides direct evidence to test us":* This is classic special pleading. You excuse the absence of evidence by claiming it’s intentional. If God’s existence is so obvious, why would He need to hide? And why would an all-loving deity care more about blind faith than genuine understanding? That’s not love; that’s manipulation. 6. *"The works of Satan":* Blaming carnivores, parasites, and diseases on Satan is laughably archaic and ignores the mountain of evidence for natural processes like evolution. It’s easier for you to cling to medieval myths than to face the uncomfortable reality that nature is indifferent and complex, not divinely choreographed. 7. *"Freedom to choose goodness":* This argument falls apart under scrutiny. If God really wants us to choose goodness freely, why create a system where ignorance, suffering, and confusion are rampant? A truly good God would equip everyone with the same clear understanding, not rig the game with hidden evidence and arbitrary punishments. 8. *Biblical quotes as "evidence":* Quoting scripture to prove your point is circular reasoning. You’re essentially saying, "God exists because my holy book says so," which is meaningless to anyone who doesn’t already share your faith. Try using actual evidence instead of ancient texts riddled with contradictions and moral atrocities. *Your entire argument is built on fallacies: circular reasoning, special pleading, appeals to ignorance, and emotional manipulation.* You’ve proven nothing except your inability to engage with science or logic in good faith. If this is the best you have, maybe it’s time to reconsider the strength of your beliefs instead of parroting tired apologetics that crumble under scrutiny.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin To claim that "you have to be really naive to seriously declare that God does not exist" is not only intellectually lazy, but outright dismissive of centuries of rigorous philosophical inquiry and scientific investigation. This type of arrogant, condescending thinking ignores the core issues raised by **David Hume** , **Bertrand Russell** , and **Richard Dawkins** , who have all argued with far more sophistication and logic than your blanket dismissal of atheism. Hume's **"Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion"** critiques the idea that the world must be designed by a perfect being, showing that humans project their own understanding of order and purpose onto the cosmos, which could just as easily be random or governed by indifferent forces. **Russell** in **"Why I Am Not a Christian"** critiqued the moral arguments for God's existence, pointing out that a benevolent, omnipotent God would not allow the suffering and evil we observe in the world. **Dawkins** , meanwhile, in **"The God Delusion"** , dismantles the traditional theistic arguments-cosmological, teleological, moral-while offering a compelling case for naturalism, showing how evolution and natural processes can explain complexity without resorting to a divine designer. The claim that God’s nature cannot be comprehended by humans, except through a very particular theological lens, is also an intellectually cowardly stance. **Immanuel Kant** argued that human cognition is limited, not that there is an impenetrable divine mystery we must simply accept. This claim weakens any genuine understanding of religion. Instead of engaging with the profound problems of theism-such as the problem of evil, contradictions within religious texts, or the historical fallibility of religious institutions-those who invoke this argument prefer to retreat into unprovable faith and comfort themselves with untestable dogma. By relying on faith in a divine explanation while dismissing centuries of critical thought, this type of argument isn't offering wisdom; it’s evading reality. The **"argument from ignorance"** -that just because we don’t have all the answers, God must fill the gap-is both intellectually dishonest and historically discredited. The **"God of the gaps"** argument has been used to justify everything from flat-earth cosmology to outdated medical practices and must be discarded in any serious intellectual conversation. In reality, dismissing atheism as "naive" isn't a robust defense of theism; it's an admission of the inability to address its challenges head-on, and it reveals nothing more than intellectual arrogance devoid of understanding. **Sam Harris** describes this as the **"faith-based delusion"** -a blind adherence to ideas because they offer comfort or tradition, rather than rational, evidence-based belief. If you claim that these intellectual giants are all wrong simply because they don’t agree with your conclusions, it says more about your inability to engage in critical thought than about the validity of your beliefs.

[@Lost_Delos]

100% agree with this.

[@commenterperson4481]

_1:18:58__ "We now enter the period of cross examination, which ... allows the questioner to pose, and the answerer only to answer and not repeat the question or to dodge."_ If only all TV interviews would adhere to this basic format.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.

[@HakashinTruth]

I’m proud to be an ex-Muslim although nobody around me knows and I’ve hidden it as to not get punished of course, I’m glad I could watch this debate, there have been others like Christoper hitches that have helped me realize what it means to think freely without the thought of receiving divine punishment for thinking this way, my mind and thoughts have become more well receiving of new ideas and logical thinking, it really does feel weird in a good way and I’m truly thankful. 😊😊

[@filmeseverin]

Anyway, people should know that not the labels that people put one another are important for the Creator of this reality (such as: Atheist, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu...) but *our deeds* instead, how we use the freedom He has offered, our free will, to strive always to do only good, to never cause useless suffering (any damage) to others and to ourselves. *_"For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorance of foolish men. Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God."_* 1 Peter 2,15 - 16 That is why we have to be servants/lovers of perfection (100% goodness, wisdom, justice...). As Jesus Christ has said: "Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect" Matthew 5, 48 *_"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"_* Matthew 7, 21-23

[@filmeseverin]

After a finite number of years we all will leave this world and will receive what we deserve. According to the following two testimonies (and many hundreds more available online; even I had a true NDE) all evil we do, which cannot be forgiven by Divinity, is sending us to hell, instead of Heaven: "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 1"; "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 2"; "Man Sees Unthinkable Horrors in Hell - Christians Being Tortured! (Mario Martinez)". Therefore, the believing of the truth revealed by God/Jesus will help / convince / determine... us to always strive to do only good for the rest of our earthly life (and to always regret deeply our bad deeds, to sin no more), to be easier for us at the Judgment, to go into Heaven before many others, to never taste hell, to be more loved by Divinity, but *ALL humans will be judged for their deeds* (as seen into those videos mentioned). *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 I wish only well to everyone and as much wisdom as possible for everyone! To be saved!

[@El_Bruno7510]

Well done, it must be tough when surrounded by religious bigots. Keeping asking questions when it is safe to do so!

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@filmeseverin]

​@snonegoodbutgodjohn363 God is perfect in everything and you should understand that many people have never done many of the sins you use to mention into your messages. God knows exactly each human's sins and what can be forgiven for each of us, indeed, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. In order to understand one of the most important aspects of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity), anyone can read the following parable: A very straight emperor has lost a battle because of a traitor. That traitor was proved to be even his mother, who was the being he loved the most. Known for his honesty and fairness, the king had to judge and punish his mother in the same way as on any other person, and the punishment for high treason consisted of 100 lashes. When soldiers went to his mother to take her to apply the punishment, the king came down from the throne and placed himself in his mother's place, suffering all the 100 lashes. Thus, in the sacrifice of Jesus, God is that righteous king, He, descended from the throne to bear the punishment, is Jesus, the traitor who had to be punished being us, humans. Sacrifice is the only way for perfection to turn the ignorant ones from their using of freedom for evil intentionally, because only dictators use force, but Divinity is the opposite of a dictator. After a finite number of years we all will leave this world and will receive what we deserve. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 According to the following two testimonies (and many hundreds more available online; even I had a true NDE) all evil we do, which cannot be forgiven by Divinity, is sending us to hell, instead of Heaven: "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 1"; "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 2"; "Man Sees Unthinkable Horrors in Hell - Christians Being Tortured! (Mario Martinez)". Therefore, the believing of the truth revealed by God/Jesus will help / convince / determine... us to always strive to do only good for the rest of our earthly life (and to always regret deeply our bad deeds, to sin no more), to be easier for us at the Judgment, to go into Heaven before many others, to never taste hell, to be more loved by Divinity, but *ALL humans will be judged for their deeds* (as seen into those videos mentioned). I wish only well to everyone and as much wisdom as possible for everyone! To be saved!

[@MCOult]

How often, these days, would a college crowd allow to speak guests who differ from them? And how often, these days, would speakers who differ from each other treat each other with respect and courtesy? How horribly things have changed over the past decade.

[@MCOult]

@Late to the Game Mine, either. But then, I was in college about 50 years ago. Different era (thankfully).

[@Datharass]

This was done because the crowd, venue and speaker thought they could handle Mr. Hitchens in a variety of ways. They'll never understand he has more conviction than they do. He wasn't given his opinion he formed his own and he knows it. The world won't be the same without you Christopher. Cheers mate!

[@KyleCyree]

@@Datharass Correct. Hitchens is non-emotional, fact-based, and simply factual. WLC, per usual, seems like he is working on a sermon. Hitch is prepared for a conversation, WLC is prepared for a paper with footnotes.

[@krispybacon9285]

rn they would be jumping up infront of the speakers screaming and chanting all while the gutless faculty does nothing until eventually someone pulls a fire alarm

[@michaelsteven24]

Frequently

[@CappuccinoZilla]

I believe death is the exact same thing as before we were born… we all came from our mother’s womb but non of us remember that state of being….. death is probably eerily like that. Not some guy with a beard telling you…. “Ahhhh ya know what… you did good enough you can get in my clubhouse” I can’t believe I have to type that out. But you are all adults…. Grow up and stop playing make believe if you don’t know what happens next… but don’t tell me that some dude made all of this just because

[@redshift6743]

I think these two men genuinely respected each other; something many people commenting, might consider.

[@Godlimate]

Mr Incognito they both deserve much respect

[@haydenhollingsworth6777]

@@Godlimate Lane Crage really doesnt deserve any respect least of all from Hitchens.

[@Godlimate]

Hayden Hollingsworth I used to think the same also. I disagree with WLC views, however, in the realm of philosophy he is quite knowledgeable in particular with metaphysics/ ontology (the respect deserved is in the credentials). It’s nice to see how people actually think when they take on this kind of position to broaden our perspective, and of course the perspective of Hitchens also.

[@franconero181]

There is a difference between civility and respect. I doubt very much that Hitch respected that windbag of Craig. That guy is a moron, to put it mildly...

[@thomascarroll9556]

Hayden Hollingsworth and he was definitely not respected by Hitchens.

[@yogurtbanana2124]

I appreciate this debate. I enjoy having civil debates between those who disagree

[@MichaelJonesC-4-7]

I prefer pistols at 20 paces. But, that's just me.

[@yogurtbanana2124]

It's not that we believe in the supernatural, rather it is more accurate to say that we believe in layer of reality which is paranateural. If there is indeed anything resembling an afterlife, than it is a very natural part of reality with it's own laws of nature even if its laws are different from ours. And with our understanding of quantum mechanics it is not unreasonable to think that such a world (one that is difficult to interact with or prove with our modern technology) exists and that the "spirit" might reside in such a world.

[@yogurtbanana2124]

@Amirus cool beans, you're entitled to your opinion

[@yogurtbanana2124]

@Amirus the idea that the universe became orderly enough to manufacture complex due to an infinite amount of time or that we are one lucky universe out of an infinite number is just as ludicrous as the idea that there exists an intelligent creator outside the universe. Neither world view is exactly sound. So cool, I respect your opinion that belief in god is arrogant and ignorant but I haven't heard an objectively better world from atheists

[@yogurtbanana2124]

@Amirus I apologize for being brazen. What do you mean when you say he's arrogant and ignorant

[@doggoslayer5679]

Why even watch the debate when the random people in the comment section are far more intelligent

[@strannick2212]

If not as intelligent at least as funny as least as funny as fck (sometimes)

[@avedic]

1:58:30 Check out the audience in the background. A lot of kids....people in their late teens and early 20s. And just watch them...all of them. Look how _interested_ and curious they all just seem. It seems pretty blatantly obvious to me. I honestly think Hitchens did a _huge_ service in showing up for this debate...at a Christian college. And it's just fascinating to watch this entire debate, and then almost 2 hours in, see the faces of just a tiny portion of the young audience there. I think his form of thinking absolutely had a lasting impact on many of them. Hell, this was 11 years ago...some of these people are now in their 30s. My brother used to be 100% on the young evangelical track....now, it's been many years since he's left that behind. Happened to me too. I'm 37....but from about 1997 to 2003 I was absolutely in the same camp...and convinced the rapture was just around the corner. I've moved far _far_ beyond that. And I'd venture a guess that many of the kids in this audience have as well...

[@georgedoyle7971]

avedic Totally agree Hitchens was brilliant it’s a shame he was so wrong about Iraq and mainly only dealt with the low hanging fruit in theistic belief during his debates. I don’t agree with his approach to the philosophy of religion but I still really like him to be honest and find many of his observations hilarious. However, many eminent atheist philosophers such as Mary Midgeley, Massimo Piggliussi, Michael Ruse, Thomas Nagel and scientists such as Roger Penrose prefer to distance themselves from “New atheism” recognising it as a militant form of atheism that does more harm than good.?Hitchens early history including family and school life certainly shaped many of his ideas as he was clearly a man of many contradictions.. He actually formed a close friendship with the theist Larry Taunton whilst they were on a road trip together in America. Hitchens was fighting cancer at the time and was actually being treated by a cancer expert who was a Christian minister. Interestingly, when skimming through a copy of the Bible on the way to a debate Hitchens asked Larry why did Jesus weep at the death of his friend Lazarus? There was no doubt he knew Jesus was an historical character and whilst he railed against theists and the Bible on stage, he maintained meaningful though largely hidden from public view friendships with Christians who were prominent scientists such as Francis Collins and the author Larry Alex Taunton. He also showed a lot of respect and humility towards the Oxford professor John Lennox after admitting to losing to him in one particular debate. It’s clear that, whilst Hitchens showed little reverence for “faith” and “superstition” on the stage, he had a likeable and lovable personality behind the scenes. It seems that what Larry and Hitchens shared on the two long road trips they had together was a (faith) in friendship which is possibly why Hitchens was curious about Jesus reaction to Lazarus death. However, there is no powerful evidence of Hitchens having a death bed conversion as some dishonest “theists” may claim. Equally, Larry Taunton did not claim Hitchens had a deathbed conversion as some staunch and dishonest atheists who haven’t even read Larrys book insist he did. Maybe Larry should have called his book the “Friendship of Hitchens” rather than the “Faith of Hitchens” so as not to offend the “faith” of staunch atheists. But why would Larry do such a disingenuous thing when he believed that the concept of human friendship had clearly evolved into more than just some herd or survival instinct. “Friendship is unnecessary, like philosophy, like art.... It has no survival value; rather it is one of those things which give value to survival” (C.S. Lewis). Lewis was an atheist nearly half his life and carried around shrapnel in his body from WW2. Interestingly, Lewis was a genius and converted to Christianity due to the (friendship) and influence of friends such as J.R. Tolkien and also the literature of G.K. Chesterton and George McDonald. Similarly, this quote from Hitchens speaks volumes about Hitchens character, honesty and approach to friendship when he was not in his stage persona... “If everyone in the United States had the same qualities of loyalty and care and concern for others that Larry Taunton had, we'd be living in a much better society than we do” (Christopher Hitchens)

[@sarahjustesen1305]

I hope so for their sake

[@jonellingsen1250]

Like you?

[@trime1015]

Remember when universities actually held (at the time) controversial debates without entitled children shouting down a speaker?

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@trime1015]

cool story, but I can be a good person and do all that without believing in god@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363

[@Zlist1994]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363no all praise be to Allah and the great profit Mohamed.

[@CamCos]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Sins are sins exclusively because God says they are and sins, and the Bible totally changes what sins are between the old/new testament. God is so perfect he can't even talk to his sinner creations, so he is going send his son to kill himself for us instead.🤣🤣🤣 Explain why god can't reveal his existence. The Bible says you can't know God, yet your punished eternally for not fearing and loving God. Again, explain why God wants humans to blindly believe.

[@rafaelvargas1011]

😂​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363

[@cnholanda]

Nine years after… and still great to watch!

[@kylejantjiesauthor]

Right?

[@Jealod24]

Except the James Webb telescope and recent astronomical observations throwing a wrench in Craig’s entire argument about the exact start of the universe, the Big Bang, etc.. science is a bitch.

[@fieryscorpion]

Dr William Lane Craig threw so many word salads that it started to get annoying.

[@kunaltyagi5130]

@@Jealod24stay away from science

[@kunaltyagi5130]

You can start it by not using anything around you

[@CairynJay]

Loved the introduction. Set such a lovely, kind and respectful atmosphere 👏🏻👏🏻

[@carolbaez5891]

yeah this reminds me of a presidential debate.... only exactly the opposite.

[@hermanblume2527]

Enjoy your gross glutinous slime

[@fresh1765]

Nothing beats the self-aware Christian.

[@TonyEnglandUK]

@@fresh1765 Except Christopher Hitchens*

[@garywilliams7454]

Cairyn Jay Atmosphere aside I just don´t see how anybody can believe in god.

[@CappuccinoZilla]

The religious folks are so strange…. I feel bad for yall honestly. They are all over the place…. Simply put… show me god…. I’ll wait…

[@FilterYT]

Lots of respect to Biola University for hosting this debate. Thanks.

[@bigdog2432]

FilterYT 1v1 on rust?

[@bigdog2432]

cesar leon ass hole

[@NA-vz9ko]

It’s a shame their speaking professor is such a charlatan. This debate was nonsensical. Just like all Christian talking points. Religion really needs to understand the works are metaphorical. Clearly evolution takes place. Clearly there is no God that interacts with us. There is no proof for it at all.

[@joshwalters3148]

@@NA-vz9ko but kudos for having a neutral moderator for once...

[@Quaggabagel]

Nate McMillin After watching it I only saw evidence provided by Craig and not hitchens

[@JPxKillz]

Debate like this in university now is so rare.

[@RealmDesigner]

Actually it's not. That's just a silly narrative pushed by online click-bait merchants.

[@shaanandalkar]

You sound senile.

[@sandieovajness8056]

Actually it is. They are arguing over genitals now.

[@M.Đ-z4u]

​@@sandieovajness8056😂😂 true

[@ritchie6162]

Not fully true. My college just had one of these not too long ago on creationism vs evolution. Saying these debates don’t happen is just simply not true.

[@Randomchannelsofcat65]

Craig had everything written in advance and no matter what Hitchens was going to say, Craig wasn't going to change his narrative. That's why he sounded good at first but as the debate went on, he sounded more and more like a preacher than a debater. Whenever Hitchens answered Craigs questions about Atheism, Craig kept on going with his argument even though the answer was very clear...

[@nunyabizness-w7k]

if nothing has meaning which is subjective what is the point of trying to prove someone wrong other than your own personal whim? why would you do it?

[@LGpi314]

@@nunyabizness-w7k WHAT!?!?!

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@nunyabizness-w7k It is only worth pointing out false ideas when those with such ideas try to impose them onto others. Hence it is always worth showing the religious how deluded they are.

[@filmeseverin]

@Randomchannelsofcat65 Mr. William Lane Craig is not perfect (none of us is) but he is on the side of the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth, as all who sort the comments and read enough from my posts (both answers and threads) can convince themselves.

[@nunyabizness-w7k]

@@El_Bruno7510 . the argument is you cant do that because you admit life is meaningless if its meaningless why fight back other than on a whim? you cant even complain about religious people dunce

[@MrCrescendo]

Craig keeps trying to shift the burden of proof by misdefining "Atheism." He's too smart not to understand what he's doing. It's dishonest.

[@biniyamtomas5432]

Come on he clearly understood but hitchens didn't made up his mind. And remember craig repeatedly saying Atheism is a worldview. Craig has given an answer for an argument against God. But Hitchens didn't answer the questions asked

[@citizenghosttown]

@@biniyamtomas5432 "And remember craig repeatedly saying Atheism is a worldview......" Which, as Hitchens explained, is utter nonsense. No, the game Craig is playing is rather obvious.

[@courageousmelon5654]

A Christian lying. Shocking I tell you, shocking.

[@yelezi7950]

i went to sleep with my auto play on and woke up to this

[@emilsjansons6242]

😀

[@justinjackson7688]

lol me too

[@jethro6936]

I can’t quantify how much I miss Christopher these days. :)

[@davewalt1781]

I miss him too, just like the bubonic plague.

[@chairmanmeow3693]

I can

[@2633babe]

God committed adultery by impregnating Mary bear Jesus Christ.?

[@davewalt1781]

@@2633babe God did not have sex with Mary. She was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. And I'd be careful blaspheming the one true God in heaven. God is love but there is also the wrath of God.

[@screwdapig]

dave Walt lol

[@paulspydar]

We are lucky to live in this age where debates et al can be recorded for us to view & re view at our leisure .All though I had never met C.Hitchens in life ,I do how ever miss him being on Earth in person, RIP

[@kkdoc7864]

Leonardo's Truth I was going to say the very same thing!!!

[@MiningForPies]

Leonardo's Truth ah, a judgemental Christian. Pretty typical really, Jesus orders don’t apply to you do they? Prepare to spend an eternity gnashing your teeth.

[@BigVK19]

@Leonardo's Truth I think belief in Hell proves Christians are maroons. On the one hand, they are condemning the atrocities of dictators, on the other, they are calling a being -good God, who tortures sentient beings for all eternity.

[@ghost_of_jah5210]

@@BigVK19 one thing. Not interjecting my opinion, but hell is simply a place without God, therefore without good. However, even saying that God tortured humans is still not good not only because of the power of Him but also the lack of an objective independent standard.

[@Juliet_Capulet]

If you agree with Hitchens' worldview then he's not resting anywhere, he just "isn't" (period, full stop) anymore. So why do you hope he rests in any fashion, which assumes he still has consciousness in some way?

[@sandystrait3878]

There was and is no man like Hitchens.

[@3rebornxd]

Agreed

[@travisstrickland7270]

Plz he like a institutionalized Drunk uncle full of myths and logic with no foundation.

[@briankenyon1543]

​@@travisstrickland7270myths and logic!!?? Hitchens!!!???🤣🤣🤣😭 Oh... Very... Dear...🤤🤤

[@jayeee2756]

He was an unparalleled wit, raconteur, author and genius. Link me your incisive ramblings.

[@nwokemitchell6194]

Alan Watts was phenomenal too

[@danielsiebert5714]

Most atheists are content to say “I don’t know,” regarding the origin of the universe. Religious apologetics seem determined to say they know.

[@JohnTezlaNFS]

Saying I don't know is an actual answer, insted of jumping to a conclusion like religion, we need to backtrack and work our way to the answer, thats how cured most diseases, it is how we found out the orbits of planets, they say atheist think there was nothing, meanwhile this god just make the universe from nothing, we don't have a clear answer, and we might not get that answer in our lifetime, thats future generation problem.

[@TotalDramaOwenandNoah]

@@JohnTezlaNFS truth is there are more agnostics than athiests

[@stevenselleck5460]

For people who "don't know" they sure seem to act like they know all religions are false. But ofc faith and leaps of logic are only for religious folks

[@TotalDramaOwenandNoah]

@@stevenselleck5460 preach. they gon' cancel you for telling the truth. "how can you be so sure there is a God" It goes both ways you pricks. They're so sure there's no God without even looking a single bit into the faith or having an open mind. Cause i don't just believe in God, he believes in me.

[@carolshihadeh1435]

That is true, most atheist say when asked about creation and God will say I don't know.

[@JeanTube86]

Who’s still here in 2024??

[@LGpi314]

I'm. Hitchens's slaps are the best. They go over religious dumsters' heads.

[@ch-zq3ld]

​@@LGpi314 personally, hitchens was never my cup of tea. I always like dawkins eloquency, very easy to digest and his frustrations is relatable with debating. Hitchens circumsision points are a tough pill to swallow, not every jumps to say my dick is disabled. but he is right.

[@LGpi314]

@@ch-zq3ld I don't agree with anyone on a 100% basis. I don't agree with Dawkins on gender. It is a tough pill to swallow for me. He should know better.

[@ch-zq3ld]

@@LGpi314 I dont agree with dawkins on a many things as well, but the way he talk about religion is super on point from what i see.

[@chimchu3232]

Here, relistening to a lot of Hitchens debates, it's been years since I listened to him

[@oasis-rkid640]

Craig: "If humans can't prove it, it is more likely to be God than anything else." This logic simply does not compute.

[@godofthegaps6741]

the classical god of the gaps argument

[@joefoley1480]

thank you Mr Spock

[@jerodfarmer165]

That’s because your not smart enough to understand, it’s okay the world is full of people like you

[@oasis-rkid640]

@@jerodfarmer165 Hey man i'm really trying but it just doesn't make sense. BTW does god command you to insult and try to belittle people on the internet? Seems like a terrible way to spread the good word. Or maybe it's just more proof he doesn't exist. Also it's you're*

[@jakemay637]

@@godofthegaps6741 the God of the apes is Darwin. Worship him.

[@godzillian3540]

"Of course you have free will, the boss insists upon it!" Hilarious

[@filmeseverin]

Freedom (respectively what we are doing with it; to not do evil, to not cause useless suffering...) is the most important thing for the Creator, because He is not a dictator, but the opposite. He has given us 100% freedom to choose: or to follow just our instincts (altered through the DNA changes done by the fallen angels), being stupid=evil because of the bad addictions etc. (as Satan wants to gain our immortal spirits in Hell), or to strive always to do good in any situation, to not cause useless suffering, to keep us as holly as we can by following His wisdom, received through the true prophets and mainly through Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity), then perpetuated over generations through proper education from thousands of years ago. Humans did not create this reality (this planet, this Universe...), we are just guests here. Our short lives here are mainly a kind of school for our immortal spirit. We have to do our best to sin no more, to never cause useless suffering to others and to ourselves, in order to "pass the final exam", to deserve Heaven. *_"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."_*

[@jiannirivas7175]

@@filmeseverin Is Gods will always carried out?

[@filmeseverin]

@“Jianni Rivas“ Try to read entirely and carefully ALL my messages posted on this video, if you are really interested about the truth. Here, in this earthly life, God has offered us 100% freedom but He has told us to not use it as a cover-up for evil. Unfortunately, as the fallen angels did/do, many stupid=evil humans don't do God's will. However, all will be judged 100% correctly to receive what we deserve according with how much good and how much evil we have done while living in the body, after God/Jesus will forgive what can be forgiven.

[@stuartmiller7419]

@@filmeseverin Freedom to make someone else's choice, on pain of never-ending torture. Religion takes away reason, logic and humanity and you're a great example.

[@filmeseverin]

@@stuartmiller7419 The Creator of this reality has told us: _"Woe to those who call good evil and evil good"_ Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity) has advised humans to love (respect / care for) each other, as they love (respect / care for) themselves. Therefore, without true belief in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen: - so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War); - the billions of poor people at the limit of subsistence versus the wealthiest (multi-billionaires in dollars, euros, etc. with the vices of money / fortune) and those millions too rich people (also with the vice of money / wealth), owning together so many trillions of dollars, euro ... undeserved money, of course, wasted on unnecessary luxury and / or just kept through banks, instead of being used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, financing of useful inventions, recycling, etc. - so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction; - sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general.

[@oscarqr1]

It feels almost surreal watching this in 2020; seeing a massive crowd like this where nobody is wearing a face mask.

[@gerryrice4848]

Covid does'nt exist, debate that. Big pharma would not allow it

[@oscarqr1]

Gerry Rice People are allowed to argue about existence of covid. There just aren’t many who do because there is overwhelming evidence indicating the pandemic is occurring.

[@christianlachniet5785]

Beeeeeeta

[@oscarqr1]

jesus yoUr IgNOrAncE iS oN anOThEr LevEl 🐓 🧽

[@ticotechhouston4917]

The Executive Committee’s Board of Trustees asked Falwell to go on indefinite leave of absence on August 7, to which he agreed. Since that time, additional matters came to light that made it clear that it would not be in the best interest of the University for him to return from leave and serve as President. The Executive Committee met this morning and a conference call gathering of the full Board was planned for tomorrow. Falwell responded by agreeing to resign immediately as President of Liberty University today but then instructed his attorneys to not tender the letter for immediate resignation. The Executive Committee will go forward with its meeting in the morning followed by the full Board. Acting President Jerry Prevo said, “I call upon the University community and supporters to be in prayer for the University and for all its leadership, past, present and future, as we walk with the Lord through this stormy time of transition.”

[@jamesclarke9826]

I'm a Christian but absolutely love both these men. Hitechens may have been an athiest, but in a healthy society asking questions is important. Rip

[@ronaldrrootiii6040]

So when the Christian guy talks about how highly improbable everything is to evolve this way and uses a bunch of massive numbers of improbability he's still saying there is that one chance and when you compare how big space is in every direction to at least what we can comprehend with our mind then we are that one and all those other failed ones. So basically saying it's extremely improbable is just saying that it is probable. Based on the vastness of space saying that is basically saying it's 100% probable out of just a huge huge huge amount of choices. Kind of how winning the Powerball is super improbable but someone does because that many people are trying. Just like that except on a grand scale. Hence the fact that all those other situations are just. It's just that in our little amount of time to evolve and to get smart we feel as if that is a long time based on our perception of time. Really if the first did evolve for billions of years and we evolved for Millions that would still be a short amount of time compared to greater things kind of how a piece of sand is huge to ants but tiny to a mountain time is just relative. We are way too smart for this amount of time we've developed thinking it's been a long time and that we are so important. There could be other intelligent creatures that have come and gone not only here but elsewhere and will continue to do so. Us not understanding things leads us to mystical ideas kind of how lightning and thunder probably used to seem like more than just atmosphere weather that we Now understand I think people just don't like to look at it this way because it makes our life seem meaningless but if you can get over that and learn to just enjoy it while treating others good and maybe having kids and teaching them the same and that's okay. Seems like Wars aren't fought over not believing a mystical belief. So yeah once again Christian apologetics saying it would be one out of one with however many thousands of zeros following it for this to happen natural just remember there is one with that many thousands of zeros out there of planets and stars here we are the one

[@michaelbrickley2443]

Look up Bishop Robert Barrons talk about Hitchens. Very interesting. The Bishop loved Christopher and truly appreciated him and his work

[@davidjjharding]

Good to hear this and I respect your balance

[@andyhanks7105]

​@ronaldrrootiii6040 I'd disagree over the evolutionary time scales you imply. We evolved over approximately 4 billion years rather than millions of years because we are the product of all life that existed from day 1. Contrary to this evolution has no end product so when our star reaches its ability to fry this planet it most certainly won't ve human eyes that witness it it.

[@michaelbrickley2443]

@@andyhanks7105 Jesus is coming

[@nodelayfordays8083]

Knowing now that Hitchens was diagnosed with cancer in 2010 and this was occurring in 09 I can't help but notice moments where he seems a bit out of it in body language and yet he still gives a well articulated and thought out debate. You will be greatly missed.

[@helengunter378]

I miss the Hitch enormously, as a fellow atheist

[@minusmutus]

he was probably just drunk as usual

[@helengunter378]

@@minusmutus still intelligent and eloquent even when drunk, I envy him his brain

[@Altair1904]

With all due respect I didn’t hear any compelling argument. He used to joke a lot to take the focus away from his poor arguments which is by itself a silent admission of a defeat

[@tomjackson7755]

@@Altair1904 You seem very confused. You seem to think arguments are worth something. It is philosophy's dirty little secret. Arguments are worthless. Evidence is needed to show that the premises are true. So there is no need for the argument. If you aren't concerned about evidence like WLC, literally anything can have an argument for it. It is why christianity has to rely on philosophy, it has no evidence for it.

[@omarloi7389]

Thoroughly enjoyed watching and listening to this discourse. Rest in Peace Mr Christopher Hitchens.

[@sumatra_7174]

I doubt he is resting in peace. He probably desperately wishes to come back to earth for a different biography, but it's too late now

[@billincm1034]

​@@sumatra_7174nope not happening

[@mateah83]

@@sumatra_7174 Jesus loves Christopher more than he loves us and he is not being tormented anywhere if you claim to be person of God your consciousness wont go out of its way to constantley conceptualize misery but it will instead create and propose mercy for all things. or maybe you are a catholic which basically is satanism in that case go on keep professing your santeria voodo cult.

[@alainmaitre2069]

@@sumatra_7174 Probably ? Life and death is a mystery , we do not know whereor what he is now . We all go back to molecules ...

[@Twist52]

@@sumatra_7174How very loving of you

[@jagdeepsingh3887]

What i dont get is, if you have an ideology which beliefs have been proven wrong over time, why would you still have faith in it ? It kind of reminds me of the life of brian and the romans. ‘ we were wrong about the sun, wrong about the earth, wrong about the moon, wrong about floods, wrong about earthquakes, wrong about lightening, and wrong about disease. But, we have faith that god created the universe ‘. Why do you still back this story, it doesnt have a leg to stand on. Its just a matter of time till we discover what created the universe. Then what will you say ? Imagine a court case, a guy is found with a smoking gun, hes covered in blood, standing over a corpse, people saw him shoot the gun, but you still believe he didnt do it because you know him and cant believe he would do such a thing. You have your head buried in the sand.

[@LGpi314]

The fear of heII is real to them and deeply indoctrinated into their lives from childhood. Fear is a great motivator. To me, it is just as bad as abusing children. " You have your head buried in the sand." It is more like the head is buried in the sand.

[@0202-t3h]

This is honestly such a good point. I've never tought of it that way.

[@filmeseverin]

@jagdeepsingh3887 For now, you are in error, like any atheist but you can sort the comments and read my simple and undeniable demonstrations, if you're really interested about the most important truth. For example, how could Jesus Christ know that the earth and the sky will end, when He said: *_"The sky and the earth won't last forever, but my words will."_* Matthew 24, 35 (by the way, He wasn't wrong about anything but the deceivers will keep lying to fool the superficial ones).

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin Calling atheists “in error” without evidence is just arrogance posing as wisdom. Your so-called “undeniable demonstrations” are nowhere to be seen-likely because they don’t exist outside your imagination. Quoting Matthew 24:35 as proof is laughable. Claiming the earth and sky will end is not divine insight; it’s a recycled apocalyptic cliché that anyone could say. And no, Jesus’ words haven’t “lasted forever”-they’ve been mangled by translations, interpretations, and contradictions for centuries. Dismissing critics as “deceivers” is pure intellectual cowardice. If your “truth” can’t stand up to scrutiny, it’s not truth-it’s delusion.

[@3rebornxd]

Craig completely fumbled the suffering in Africa question. My goodness...

[@McFuddy]

​@joeturner9219quite a few of them. He didn't address even once the philosophical arguments

[@JonathanMafi]

@@McFuddy WLC philosophy is just too far ahead of Hitchens, i think he leant towards more his well practiced weaker arguments, appeal to people's emotions and humour.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@JonathanMafi "Far ahead"! Do you know how old his philosophical arguments are! Hitchens rebutted everything Craig said apart from granting him a creator from the kalam. His rebuttals seem to just fly over the heads of theists! Cognitive dissonance at its finest!

[@yaboiicj94]

Where ​@joeturner9219

[@nogodsuntillproven]

Probably because philosophy doesn't prove anything​@@McFuddy

[@ThePi314Man]

"infinity isn't possible so therefore there is an infinite God!" *WHAT?!*

[@pidayrocks2235]

It makes sense if you don't think about it :)

[@christopherchuauhang4829]

@@pidayrocks2235 NO it doesn't

[@hueydo3522]

What he meant was that since infinity of time mark the beggining is impossible hence there is an God who power is infinite created and started everything marked the beggining of time.

[@jaquashabazz6262]

The Creator is not limited to the laws of His Creation.

[@MartTLS]

Jaqua Shabazz That’s because there is no creator and therefore no creation.

[@jaylo9421]

An atheist can have charisma but since they are not selling snake oil, it is not a requirement. I still miss Mr Hitchens he was a great writer and thinker

[@hephaestuslakan3774]

And a great debater.

[@justsomeguy4260]

The only argument God believers have when they're told God is fake: " BuT HoW CaN SoMeThiNG CoMe OuT Of NoThiNg" Like bro your brain is too small just because we don't know how universe was made doesn't mean a sky daddy made it

[@onlyme2579]

@@justsomeguy4260 There's the issue right there, you just said it. "Sky Daddy". What? What is that? I don't believe in that, I never have. I believe in God. What is a sky daddy? You're making an argument with a false dichotomy.

[@stztstz1018]

@@onlyme2579 he's just paraphrasing though, you can replace sky daddy with whatever God or deity and it'll be the same. There is no single good reason to believe that there is any sort of God, until proven otherwise. Which hasn't happened so far.

[@onlyme2579]

@@stztstz1018 The same goes for the Theist listening to the arguments of an atheist. There's no evidence for me to believe your position. I will also point out, paraphrasing an incorrect perception, is still incorrect.

[@alligatordundee4983]

1:19:18 - "Let's talk first about whether there are any good arguments to think that atheism is true..." Dr. Craig, Mr. Hitchens (and every other atheist you ever debated) corrected you on this over and over and over again. Hitchens already corrected you twice by the time you got to this point in the debate. Why can't you get it through your thick head that atheism is not a truth claim? It's neither true nor false; it is a personal expression of disbelief in deities.

[@B.S...]

Craig is correct - There is no logical argument for atheism, but the statement is meaningless. There is no logical argument for electricity either… but that doesn’t it make any less real. The Scientific Method is - Empirical observation, and it is a sufficient foundation for belief in atheism. On the other hand, theism is loaded with logical contradictions and thus provides sufficient "argument" in support of the claim of atheism. Without any justification atheism would be a superstition.

[@jl4018]

Agreed. Given that it does take a lot of faith to be an atheist. More so than what is required to be a theist. That is something theists often get wrong about the faith of atheists.

[@B.S...]

@@jl4018 The evidence for atheism is literally voluminous. The evidence for theism is nowhere to be found… all you have is faith.

[@jl4018]

@@B.S... please explain one piece of evidence for atheism that can’t also be used as evidence for theism. Perhaps there is a good argument out there that can’t be used by theists but most seem to overlap with the arguments made by theists.

[@B.S...]

@@jl4018 Every fact in every textbook of Physics, chemistry, biology is the result of natural causes. There isn’t a single shred of evidence for the supernatural. Evolution and natural selection are not morally compatible with theism. The existence of evil contradicts a God who is perfectly moral, a.k.a. the Problem of Evil… and there is more, theism runs into contradiction everywhere.

[@ufobrownsugar7948]

I like these debates because there’s no commercial breaks!

[@wessel5799]

Bruh you still ain't got netflix yet?

[@XcaliburReborn]

“We’re a Christian establishment and wanted to debate whether it’s reasonable to believe in god.” If nothing else, I respect you for inviting the equivalent of an atheist howitzer against your standard issue rifle apologist. Shows some real balls

[@sak415]

Curious. I hear argument on argument from Craig, but they are never refuted nor is there given an argument for the antithesis.

[@wizit1993]

@@sak415 Craig didn't make any arguments, he made unsubstantiated claims. Hitchens can't refute an un-refutable claim. If I told you I had an invisible $2 bill in my pocket and told you to refute it, you'd never be able to. I could just say that $2 bills exist, while true, does nothing to substantiate the claim that a piece of money can be invisible.

[@thehistory5401]

Ignorant with balls

[@less2worryabout]

@@sak415 what "argument" did you hear from Craig?

[@sak415]

@@less2worryabout the cosmological argument for instance. To refute it you need to show that one of the premises is wrong. Or that the conclusion does not logically follow from the premises. An emotional response wont do.

[@biekgiek]

For Hitchens, the hardest part was not having any whiskey

[@thewiseman5948]

COCAINE is better

[@dylancoleman1921]

@@thewiseman5948 two drugs that don’t do the same thing at all. Is Advil better than Benadryl?

[@rep10Y-o9r]

yeh he can't operate without it, or with it??

[@biekgiek]

@@rep10Y-o9r He operated pretty damn well, but maybe you have alternative facts or some other nonsense to back up your claim.

[@Countryboy071]

​@@rep10Y-o9rthe same as those of faith !

[@ronjackson3]

If God existed, Christians would, too. Until I see evidence of the latter, I am not even looking for the former!

[@LGpi314]

just wait for Filmsenile to come and tell yu how wrong you are. LOL

[@filmeseverin]

@ronjackson3 To not be deceived anymore, the serious and honest people can sort the comments and read as many of my posts (both answers and threads) as they can because *I have proved* not only God's existence, God's eternity and God's perfection, but also all the errors of the atheists and generally of all the unbelievers of the truth, who post on such videos (they never had valid counter arguments, their manipulation - including that done with AI - fooling only the superficial readers).

[@ronjackson3]

@@filmeseverin I stand corrected, I should have said that I do not believe in your god.

[@filmeseverin]

@@ronjackson3 Only those too deceived and too superficial are not sorting the comments to read entirely and carefully all my demonstrations (which prove their errors) just to keep their deceiving. Furthermore, only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations.

[@LGpi314]

@@ronjackson3 and now you have met this filmsenile.

[@queend9320]

More people should learn to share their views like this. Really enjoyed the respect and dignity these men showed each other.

[@56username]

It was over before it started Hitchens . Said in the first few minutes God there every where. He is a believer I noticed he brought his Ray Comfort bananas for Dessert.

[@seckhoffable]

No ad hominem insults, although Dr. Craig posited views that atheists don't have, and then embroidered them.

[@scottblack7182]

I must agree even though i cannot stand craig and his dishonest ass lol.

[@fanofdawkins6824]

@@scottblack7182 ikr. I cant stand the sound of his high pitched, sqeaky voice.

[@TheOneAndOnlyZeno]

@Rapid Dragon335 Everyone has cancer - it's just some people it multiplies out of control.

[@kendog84bsc]

55:28 Geez, I'm watching this on a mobile in vertical mode, and just realized that the podium nicely lines up with the time slider and makes it look like there's a thousand of ads on the video

[@RexDolo]

😂😂😂😂

[@ziodav7490]

Thank god for intelligence

[@boringname3657]

@@ziodav7490 What?

[@ziodav7490]

Rationalist how did we become intelligent beings?

[@KillerTofu1]

Prove Atheism? What does that even mean? Atheism is just you saying there is a god, me saying prove it, you saying I cant,, then me saying then I don't believe you. Thats it.

[@LGpi314]

"Atheism is really a term we do not need. In the same way that we do not have a word for someone who is not an astrologer." THANK YOU, Mr. Harris!

[@KillerTofu1]

@@LGpi314 I agree.But since we do have it I refer to me previous statement.

[@filmeseverin]

@@KillerTofu1 Generally, those from such videos, exposed to my clear and undeniable demonstrations but who still want to remain atheists, are ignoring intentionally the simple fact that *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* hoping that this reality is the result of no intelligence, in other words that God does not exist, only to escape the responsibility for their deeds, to not be Judged by God/Jesus after the leaving of this world, but they are in error. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 My simple and undeniable demonstrations can be found quite easily after sorting the comments.

[@KillerTofu1]

@@filmeseverin WTF are you talking about.

[@filmeseverin]

For the serious and honest readers, who sort the comments and read enough from my messages, the errors of the fighters against God/Jesus are very clear. Mainly, they ignore intentionally both the importance of freedom and the perfection of Divinity. *Here is not Heaven but our chance to prove that we can be allowed into Heaven, to prove that we love perfection and always strive for it, by doing our best to use freedom only for good.* If ALL people (over history and nowadays) would have followed the main commandment from Jesus Christ, *besides to love / respect our Heavenly Father, to love / respect (care for) the other humans as we love / respect (care for) ourselves,* all the crimes and the tremendous useless suffering would have never happen. After hearing the truth about/from God/Jesus, only those who want to use freedom for evil are opposing to Divinity, feeling their freedom restricted, the really good humans being happy to receive the confirmation for their love of / striving for goodness, wisdom, justice... perfection, as Jesus Christ has said: *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this.

[@scottberg6742]

What would Hitch think about our world today. I wish he was still here.

[@LGpi314]

I think he would say either "I told you so" or "Thank you for confirming I was right all along".

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@rjs8044]

Me too! Kept wishing I could listen to his opinion on the nightmare democracy faces.

[@rjs8044]

​@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 nonsense, absolute nonsense, that hurts people just as Hichen's historical research shows.

[@Twist52]

@@rjs8044 99% sure that guy is a bot lol. If not he needs something to do with his time.

[@davidfass5837]

I really miss Hitchens. He looks like he was just kicked out of a bar after having too many drinks, and then he throws together these wandering sentences that go on for minutes but somehow manage to coalesce to drill his points home. Wish he was still around.

[@JulianLeahy]

yes he was not at his best here, half drunk I would wager

[@woodytheduke]

@@JulianLeahy He did say he was in the bar earlier

[@Xzsxztreiii]

Wow dude your smart you said coalesce bro wow man what’s your IQ dude you must be smart that’s a very sophisticated word

[@JulianLeahy]

@@Xzsxztreiii It didn't seem like a flex. It is just an example of somebody that is able to communicate well and doing so in the correct context. Try not to be intimidated.

[@abellewis3062]

This was a good debate. Nice video.

[@Chief-Walleye]

Yep. I noticed Hitchens questions to Craig seemed more Christ-related rather than specific to "is there a God". I am guessing Hitchens may have been more doubtful that a Christ-man could have existed than God Himself.

[@abellewis3062]

@@Chief-Walleye Yeah.

[@SchrodingersCatlive]

God is omnipotent. But he really needs me to give him $20.

[@godofthegaps6741]

I donated $ 5,000 to the Vatican so I can have guaranteed a magical eternal happy place after death

[@aimreyne8487]

@@godofthegaps6741 :/

[@918HUMAN]

wow he asked me for about tree fiddy

[@godofthegaps6741]

@Helena Baxter yep, cant afford my house rent anymore. Still worth it tho

[@Honestandtruth007]

What A Clueless/ Pathetic Comment..... ..... Such no brainner comment

[@salvandorum]

1. No documents exist written by the apostles ; strange they did not flood Judea with media releases . 2. All the Christian " miracles " were previously proclaimed in multitudes of prior religions ; originality certainly did not appear to be important to the subsequent christian marketers. 3. No evidence exists of any historical contemporary manifestation of the notion of the godhead in Jesus ; thus, there is no evidence of his existence as such. 4. Did god make the universe for no purpose ; was he so bored, that he constructed a world of suffering, sin and pain and death for his own amusement ? This alone would create a positive registration on the Hare Psychopathy Checklist and establish a deity as capricious, cruel, and deeply disturbed. Do we have here the inverted presentation of the devil ?

[@mythbuster1483]

All Christian defenses are variations of two logical fallacies: 1) "Magic book says so" (fallacy of circular reasoning), or 2) "Some member of my cult claimed that these stories are true" (fallacy of anonymous authority), none of which is EVIDENCE that the stories are true.

[@mythbuster1483]

@@WilbertLek Magic space penis!

[@The_Curious_Ra.ke01]

@@mythbuster1483 not only Christians. in India Hindus and Muslims using same logical fallacy to prove their God existence.

[@mythbuster1483]

@@The_Curious_Ra.ke01 Of course! It works for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or any other imaginary deity.

[@tylerdavis520]

What is sin?

[@JRedd-cc4dg]

The closing argument from the theist really got me going. “So far we haven’t heard any good arguments as to why god DOESN’T exist.” It’s like, yeah, how convenient. You get to make the claim that a supernatural Christian god is controlling the universe, and it’s up to reasonable people to prove you wrong. Well, I have a question for the theist that follows this same logic: “Zeus is real. I can feel him in my heart, and we see him every time eagles and lightning are close. Zeus is real, and I haven’t heard anyone prove to me that he’s NOT. Therefore, Zeus 1, Atheists 0.” That is not how it works, sir. The burden of proof falls to the individual making the claim. It’s not atheists job to disprove anything, because they are not making a claim for the supernatural Christian god.

[@mythbuster1483]

FALLACY OF SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF PROOF - “a logical fallacy that occurs when someone abuses their burden of proof and attempts to shift it to their opponent…For example, when someone argues that God is real, instead of justifying their claim, they shift their burden of proof to the opponent by asserting that it’s their responsibility to disprove it.” - The Burden of Proof Fallacy, FallacyInLogic

[@jeffforsythe9514]

We are not here to prove anything to anybody, we are here to seek the Divine, a very demanding quest and that is why so many people quit so soon and then look for confirmation from others who have also quit. Sad.

[@filmeseverin]

Because from only nothing, nothing comes just by itself and because from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes, *God's existence is proved* by the existence of this reality with intelligence into it (in addition, God has told us that He is _"the beginning and the end",_ and that is why He always existed).

[@jeffforsythe9514]

@@filmeseverin If there was proof of God's existence then faith could not exist and faith shows God that you have not forgotten Him. So forget all about that and try asking an atheist for proof that He doesn't exist. The whole debate is childish, sorry. But, by the way, He most certainly does exist........................falundafa

[@filmeseverin]

Faith is good and useful for all of us, especially for those who did not find/realized yet the proofs of God's existence. Through my demonstrations posted on such videos I strengthen the believing of the truth, to increase/enforce the faith for the honest readers.

[@kcdad2806]

Obedience is not morality. Choosing "good" behavior is morality.

[@GGGBC]

Ha? :))) That sounds dangerous!!!

[@Honestandtruth007]

What is good and what is Baddddd...??

[@kcdad2806]

@@Honestandtruth007 That really is the question isn't it? Sociologically speaking, good is that which benefits the community as a whole. In Dungeons and Dragons, good is what provides the mot benefit to the party. In Religion, good is whatever some man says some old book says will make his god happy. In Politics, good is whatever gets you reelected. In most cases, BAD is what benefits the individual at the expense of the community. (in narcissistic schema like politics and religion, bad is that which benefits SOMEONE ELSE)

[@EvanBartholomew]

Everyone believes their own behavior to be “good.” Even Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Bin Laden, etc believed that they were doing good. Since they all chose what they believed to be “good” behavior, would you say their actions were moral?

[@kcdad2806]

@@EvanBartholomew To them, obviously. However, they would be wrong because Morals are determined by society. They are culturally constructed. You are using the word "good" in a perfectly meaningless way.

[@kemicalhazard8770]

I don't get how Craig does not see the immediate contradiction, he says in his opening statement first thing "infinite things don't exist except as an idea, the universe can't be infinite". But he believes that a god can be infinite? Isn't that just contradictory...?

[@nazariqbal2669]

Eternal

[@kemicalhazard8770]

@@nazariqbal2669 but that was my point. Craig says nothing can be eternal, but he believes that God is eternal

[@filmeseverin]

@@kemicalhazard8770 "Errare humanum est." Mr. William Lane Craig is not perfect (none of us is) but he is on the side of the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth. By the way, I have been an atheist (due to the atheistic education under the communist regime) until the vision received. I recommend you to sort the comments with the newest first to read as many of my demonstrations as you can, back in time, because *I have proved* not only God's existence, God's eternity and God's perfection, but also the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth, as well as all the errors of the atheists and generally of all the unbelievers of the truth, who post on such videos (they never had valid counter arguments, their manipulation - including that done with AI - fooling only the superficial readers).

@@filmeseverin As I have demonstrated, filmy was NEVER an atheist. He is trying to gen up some street cred for his personal Christianity. But filmy demonstrates one of the most laughable things about Christians; their need to "Out Christian" other Christians.

[@LGpi314]

Don't try to find logic where it can't be found. WLC is a deeply indoctrinated. He supports genocides as long as his god commits them.

[@spongebobslesserknownbrother]

Did this dude really just argue that there has to be a god so we can know for sure that rape is bad?

[@dumbautisticmutt]

Yes, it's one of their favorite emotional arguments. Not only is it creepy how rape always seems to be the first thing they think of, but the argument is very clearly not logical. The reasoning looks like this: 1: If and only if God exists can we know that rape is bad for sure 2: I want to know that rape is bad for sure 3: Therefore, God exists

[@mythbuster1483]

The bible encourages credulous fanatics to murder babies and commit genocide against those of other faiths. "This is what the Lord Almighty says...Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants" (1 Samuel 15:2-3); "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man" (Numbers 31: 17-18); "Then I heard the Lord say to the other men....Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all-old and young, girls and women and little children." (Ezekiel 9:5-6 NLT); "And whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman" (2 Chron. 15:13).

[@realestateunplugged6129]

The point is that in atheist philosophy - rape, or whatever other act you can conceive - is subjective and based on your own personal interpretation. In Christianity we are all made in the image of God and have a great value based upon God's LOVE. Jesus Christ said the whole law hangs on these two.. 1) Love God with all your heart, soul and mind. 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. The atheist need explain to us why rape or pushing a kid off a cliff is bad from an atheist's personal interpretation?... Survival of the fittest? Don't forget to be consistent in your philosophy!

[@bebeemiller3020]

@@realestateunplugged6129 But if that were true, it would be exampled in religious communities and countries -- they would all be the most peaceful and tolerant, and yet it's the exact opposite. The most peaceful and progressive nations are always secular ones. Heavily religious countries are always exhibiting the most violent and tumultuous behaviours. Morality in atheism is about the protection of the collective.

[@mythbuster1483]

@@realestateunplugged6129 Nope. Christianity makes people LESS moral. The Nazis were from a majority-Christian country, and were following the bible when they murdered 6 million Jews. Hitler claimed Jesus was his Lord and Savior, just like you do! "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them…In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison." - The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, pp. 19-20.

[@TheRealAudiobookLounge]

I love how respectful they were to each other. I really enjoyed every minute of this debate

[@lomasloco70]

That, for real, was the most valuable thing present on this debate, all along.

[@kevinharmoning7609]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZXWhZ6Oe72EmLc

[@johnkuipers7829]

It's a crap debate. They generalise and just go on and on.

[@IcejjfishTbone]

@@johnkuipers7829 . Well that’s not the point

[@straightdave5404]

@Rapid Dragon335 I hope you understand that being smart has nothing to do with getting cancer. From a christian myself

[@duncan1271]

This is how debate should be done.

[@freshapologetics1841]

Soon, after the modernity, like any fashion like construct, ends, the new theists philosophers will emerge victorious. Craig's just a foretaste.

[@thor576_3]

@@freshapologetics1841 geez no need to be like that

[@freshapologetics1841]

@@thor576_3 Like what??

[@tomjackson7755]

@@freshapologetics1841 Like the liar that you are.

[@fresh1765]

@@tomjackson7755 😅😅😅

[@LGpi314]

Neil Degrasse Tyson put it very well: What is God? " God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that is getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on".

[@matsully]

I think the guy in the audience who asked the first question just REALLY wanted someone to say it was ok for him to blow his cat.

[@kamehamehaDdragon]

It kinda felt like he was double checking. Because why would you be concerned about such a thing, right? I mean if any of them said it was ok, then what are you going to do with that answer?

[@billmartin3561]

No he was exposing that there is an objective moral truth for believers

[@timeforcrusades9848]

Indeed

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"to say it was ok for him to blow his cat." Well, I do that with my dogs, but only when they are wet after a bath.

[@desynchonosisdragon9108]

Atheism is a single answer to a single question. Does God exist? There is no evidence to support that he does. You can't prove a negative and the burden of proof lies with those making the claim that he does.

[@pac524]

When scientists discovered a specific code (ACGT) in our DNA, it became clear there had to be a 'mind' in the creation of this code found in humans. Code can only exist if there is a code writer. Evolution cannot be the explanation for the existence of such code which instructs cells to create a living organism, especially one as highly complex as a human being.

[@miguelfonseca1104]

if you pigeonole what counts as "evidence" sure.

[@ronaldrrootiii6040]

​@@miguelfonseca1104what's funny is when the Christian guy says how highly improbable it would be for things to end up this way on their own and he uses all those massive numbers it makes perfect sense. Let's just say that all of space which is unimaginably huge of endless is all those failure numbers and then that one single improbable is us so there you go he even explained it it is probable it's us and then those huge numbers he used as the other failures. I was laughing they say that because it's like a grander version of saying oh that's one out of a million and then you have a million things there and then eventually you find that one. So good keep on running those super high numbers of improbability and we'll just look at the super high numbers of galaxies and stars and planets that go on and on and boom here we are we are the one

[@miguelfonseca1104]

it seems the uniformity of the law of physics refutes this point pretty quickly. its not like each quanta of space has different laws of physics @@ronaldrrootiii6040

[@xgreedxx]

You can prove a negative. Only atheists say you can’t because it’s convenient.

[@dudesayingthings]

William Lane Craig still doesn't understand what atheism means. or he does and he deliberately chooses to misrepresent it to make it easier to make his case and dodge the responsibility to prove his claim.

[@prandz420]

he does understand it. He is just trying to win points with christians who dont understand it or lie about it also. He also deliberately tries to shift the burden of proof

[@Ixnatifual]

I suspect he is faking misunderstanding in an attempt to shift the burden of proof as well as to set up a series of strawman arguments. He relies heavily on sophistry.

[@elirainu]

Yes, he definitely understand what atheism and agnosticism is, he just purposely gets them wrong to make himself seem more accountable in front of the already converted.

[@elirainu]

@Mahesh Krishnan mhm! I wanna see a debate that is actually good- this is lackluster. Formal which is nice, but it was all just- idk lol.

[@ohiozeimevbore9167]

Then can you say what it is

[@brentonwithers4508]

WLC continuously falls back on the assertion that atheism is just as much of a belief system as christianity when atheism is simply the unwillingness to believe in something due to a lack of evidence. The claim is that atheism is just as big a leap of faith when it is in fact the absence of faith.

[@filmeseverin]

Everything is evidence for the existence of the Creator of this reality (God) because *this reality, with us into it, is not the result of nothing, or the result of no intelligence.*

[@brentonwithers4508]

@@filmeseverin The fact that there is existence and that we are a part of is not evidence for a creator. Nor is it evidence that there isn't one. The difference is that an atheist recognizes that there is lack of evidence either way, and the religious person asserts that despite the lack of evidence, there must be a creator.

[@filmeseverin]

It is easy to deny but those serious enough who sort the comments to read my newest top message understand that *I proved* God's existence using only elementary logic and simple rationality.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@filmeseverin Your baseless assertions you mean Troll.

[@mythbuster1483]

@@filmeseverin Silly cultbot---myths are for kids! Come on back when you have evidence that a god exists, and impregnated Jesus' mother 2,000 years ago, and that Jesus was a demigod with superpowers, and that his rotting corpse magically returned to life before levitating bodily into the sky and becoming a god---because it says so in a book by anonymous, biased fanatics with stories of a talking snake, talking donkey, 900-year-old men, etc.

[@depressedunlovablelesbo8156]

“there is no good argument that atheism is true” -ooh, that’s the kind of debate we’re in for

[@JeffreyLuk]

He's talking about gnostic atheism.

[@AB-wq2vy]

He is basically saying "there is no good argument that state of lacking belief in any supernatural deities is true" or in case of gnostic atheism "there is no good argument that state of knowing there is no god is true" which doesn't make any sense. WLC tries to sell this idea of atheism that it is "believing for certain that gods don't exist". I think many of us atheists including me think that there is no good reason to have that assumption that gods exist based on bad evidence. It isn't a gnostic position, but it isn't quite agnostic either since agnostics are purely indifferent of whether gods exist or not.

[@TasteMyStinkholeAndLikeIt]

Who cares if gawd exists or not. Given the abject evil of hunger, fear, suffering, and death imposed by procreation and the food chain, if a gawd did exist, it's unfathomably evil, apathetic, or ignorant of the disgusting arena it created

[@bms77]

Depressed unlovable Lesbo yea what he doesn’t get is if yer agnostic about there being a god, you can still not be convinced therefore you can be agnostic atheist

[@TasteMyStinkholeAndLikeIt]

@@bms77 What you described is a woman being half pregnant. Agnostic atheist = I'm open to eating seafood, but I refuse to eat seafood.

[@michaeleverest7631]

What a beautiful voice the Hitch had!

[@nothanks8594]

tim hamat I think your ring and now he does no there is a creator

[@oscarcastellanos9270]

@tim hamat listen even harder and you still can't hear your lord...but rap music lives on.

[@davewalt1781]

Yes, I agree, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference from Satan's.

[@thomasrodriguez-fh9yn]

Biola is a class act for putting on such a magnificent debate. No matter what side of the spectrum you’re on, it makes you put your thinking cap on, which is the point of a debate. I hope more institutions put on a success like this. All the best to each and everyone who watched.

[@LGpi314]

I bet many of those kids are now atheists because of Hitchens. 😂😂😂