Does God Exist? William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens - Full Debate [HD]

On April 4, 2009, William Lane Craig and Christopher Hitchens met at Biola University to debate the question of God’s existence. Craig is one of the world’s foremost Christian apologists. Hitchens, is a leading spokesman for the “new atheism” movement.
In front of an overflow crowd and a global internet audience, they debated the origin and design of the universe, the implications of human morality, the deity of Jesus, and the validity of Christ’s resurrection. It was a compelling clash of worldviews and an examination of the major arguments for and against Christianity and atheism.

[@Maravirocthegreat]

These guys clearly don’t know how to argue their points so I have come to the comment section to hear from the experts.

[@enclave2k1]

Right, the experts on God...

[@nurharonparao623]

Google scientist I guess?

[@nurharonparao623]

@Ψ perhaps the interpretation was too good haha

[@nurharonparao623]

@Ψ and Im not saying they cant comment about it -_-

[@enclave2k1]

​@Ψ Anyone claiming to be an expert in God, whatever that means, is an expert in nothing.

[@taylorrichens1749]

Man, the guy that I like DESTROYED the guy that I don't like

[@teachies902]

lol. precisely what 99% of people watching this think. thanks for posting this comment.

[@teachies902]

@Brendan Moriarty brendan moriarty, asking the real questions

[@taylorrichens1749]

Well, the purpose of the comment was to point out that people are more likely to be biased towards the view they believe rather than looking at the arguments objectively. I personally am a Christian, but I think that both Craig and Hitchens had some good arguments. I also think that Hitchens could have answered some of those questions more directly and I think that Craig could have listened more to what Hitchens was saying to respond better. It seemed like they were both focused on making there own case instead of responding adequately to the other person.

[@tristanbenware3972]

All I've picked up so far (20 minutes in), is that craig doesn't understand the big bang theory

[@britishjoseph631]

@@tristanbenware3972 neither do any scientists.

[@andrewdegroot5247]

Hitchens calling the Putin regime a dictatorship in 2009....Who is watching this in 2024?

[@millbrook7384]

I mean, he got 88% of the vote, so clearly he is the preferred candidate… 😂😅🧐🥸🫡😵

[@grahamrogers3345]

Hitchens was a war monger

[@mrsatire9475]

@@millbrook7384 Not as preferred as the human God Kim Jung Il 😂😅🧐🥸🫡😵

[@thiagowutzkeod2453]

​@@millbrook7384 imagine believing that

[@dennis_duran]

@@thiagowutzkeod2453sarcasm

[@Burte000]

IDK if someone already said this and it got buried, but the debate starts 13:00

[@LGpi314]

Do you mean WLC low-bar Bill got buried, period? LMAO

[@ogbonnasam9997]

Bless you

[@LGpi314]

@@ogbonnasam9997 Why!?

[@AnantMall]

Although every second of the 13 minutes was enjoyable

[@shuvision576]

No it doesn't mate

[@derrichovekamp]

I've had the pleasure in my life to have attended debates that featured Christopher Hitchens. As a theist I found him to be abrasive and often angering, but that speaks more to his brilliance because he forced me to think. We don't have to agree on anything to be kind to one another. If you are making disgusting comments about him, it is my contention that it speaks more about you than about the late Mr Hitchens.

[@lennonpierce1607]

This^^ that's called reaching across the aisle...

[@iamthatiamiamthatiam2942]

Derric Hovekamp of all the people whom I have heard make statements and comments about life after death, heaven and such things, and say without apologizing that they were wrong, I'm curious what they have to say now that they are in the axact place they swore didn't exist. what do they have to brag about now.

[@PanchoKnivesForever]

I'm sorry, but that is such an extraordinary claim that I implore you to provide extraordinary evidence to back up said claim. “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens

[@vadinhopsc]

Derric Hovecamp - You was forced to think.... that means you are not a theist anymore, right? This should be the logical outcome of thinking, I mean, rationaly of course. Everybody think. Some rationaly. Many irrationaly.

[@joshuaewalker]

Derric Hovenkamp, Well said.

[@GazBlacklock-rk2wg]

It's almost impossible to win an argument with a genius. It's even harder to win an arguement with an idiot.

[@Sralaineo-]

Man, that is very Funny, then Who is it ??? 😅

[@testacer5101]

Storm Blacklock You must be an idiot then

[@toni4729]

You couldn't be more correct.

[@testacer5101]

Mike Biagio How

[@GazBlacklock-rk2wg]

@@testacer5101 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@HakashinTruth]

I’m proud to be an ex-Muslim although nobody around me knows and I’ve hidden it as to not get punished of course, I’m glad I could watch this debate, there have been others like Christoper hitches that have helped me realize what it means to think freely without the thought of receiving divine punishment for thinking this way, my mind and thoughts have become more well receiving of new ideas and logical thinking, it really does feel weird in a good way and I’m truly thankful. 😊😊

[@filmeseverin]

Anyway, people should know that not the labels that people put one another are important for the Creator of this reality (such as: Atheist, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu...) but *our deeds* instead, how we use the freedom He has offered, our free will, to strive always to do only good, to never cause useless suffering (any damage) to others and to ourselves. *_"For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorance of foolish men. Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God."_* 1 Peter 2,15 - 16 That is why we have to be servants/lovers of perfection (100% goodness, wisdom, justice...). As Jesus Christ has said: "Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect" Matthew 5, 48 *_"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"_* Matthew 7, 21-23

[@filmeseverin]

After a finite number of years we all will leave this world and will receive what we deserve. According to the following two testimonies (and many hundreds more available online; even I had a true NDE) all evil we do, which cannot be forgiven by Divinity, is sending us to hell, instead of Heaven: "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 1"; "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 2"; "Man Sees Unthinkable Horrors in Hell - Christians Being Tortured! (Mario Martinez)". Therefore, the believing of the truth revealed by God/Jesus will help / convince / determine... us to always strive to do only good for the rest of our earthly life (and to always regret deeply our bad deeds, to sin no more), to be easier for us at the Judgment, to go into Heaven before many others, to never taste hell, to be more loved by Divinity, but *ALL humans will be judged for their deeds* (as seen into those videos mentioned). *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 I wish only well to everyone and as much wisdom as possible for everyone! To be saved!

[@El_Bruno7510]

Well done, it must be tough when surrounded by religious bigots. Keeping asking questions when it is safe to do so!

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@filmeseverin]

​@snonegoodbutgodjohn363 God is perfect in everything and you should understand that many people have never done many of the sins you use to mention into your messages. God knows exactly each human's sins and what can be forgiven for each of us, indeed, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. In order to understand one of the most important aspects of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity), anyone can read the following parable: A very straight emperor has lost a battle because of a traitor. That traitor was proved to be even his mother, who was the being he loved the most. Known for his honesty and fairness, the king had to judge and punish his mother in the same way as on any other person, and the punishment for high treason consisted of 100 lashes. When soldiers went to his mother to take her to apply the punishment, the king came down from the throne and placed himself in his mother's place, suffering all the 100 lashes. Thus, in the sacrifice of Jesus, God is that righteous king, He, descended from the throne to bear the punishment, is Jesus, the traitor who had to be punished being us, humans. Sacrifice is the only way for perfection to turn the ignorant ones from their using of freedom for evil intentionally, because only dictators use force, but Divinity is the opposite of a dictator. After a finite number of years we all will leave this world and will receive what we deserve. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 According to the following two testimonies (and many hundreds more available online; even I had a true NDE) all evil we do, which cannot be forgiven by Divinity, is sending us to hell, instead of Heaven: "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 1"; "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 2"; "Man Sees Unthinkable Horrors in Hell - Christians Being Tortured! (Mario Martinez)". Therefore, the believing of the truth revealed by God/Jesus will help / convince / determine... us to always strive to do only good for the rest of our earthly life (and to always regret deeply our bad deeds, to sin no more), to be easier for us at the Judgment, to go into Heaven before many others, to never taste hell, to be more loved by Divinity, but *ALL humans will be judged for their deeds* (as seen into those videos mentioned). I wish only well to everyone and as much wisdom as possible for everyone! To be saved!

[@billkramer3520]

Christopher Hitchens was a debate titan no one leaves a glove on him. I miss him dearly

[@ralphangel561]

Why miss someone who mocked God and disrespected the very life he existed in?

[@nikilk]

@@ralphangel561 That's what I suppose your religious faith has done to you. You simply are unable to respect another fellow human being that doesn't share your own views. Modernity isn't Christanity's biggest problem, it's the idea that civilisations can thrive together with all the differences and views they hold. I miss Christopher Hitchens for what he stood for.

[@LGpi314]

@@ralphangel561 Why do you believe in imaginary things? "disrespected the very life he existed in" What does it mean? LMAO

[@filmeseverin]

​@@nikilk True Christians detest evilness=stupidity not the persons, but their bad deeds instead. The fighters against the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth, think that a human being can be good enough without God/Jesus wisdom (laws, commandments), but they do not want to quit ALL their bad addictions to be really good humans, as the Creator wants us to be, and they do not want to love (care about) the others as they love (care about) themselves, as the true Christians do. Their idea of good is way too low than what it should be, and that is why so many people are still far from Heaven (they do not recognize their bad deeds). After hearing the truth about/from God/Jesus, only those who want to use freedom for evil are opposing to Divinity, feeling their freedom restricted, the really good humans being happy to receive the confirmation for their love of / striving for goodness, wisdom, justice... for perfection, as Jesus Christ has said: *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this.

[@eta2670]

He really was an absolute champion in a debate, effortless humour, intelligence and class

[@alibarznji2000]

"I never tire of debating religious people, because you never know what they´re gonna say next" -Christopher Hitchens

[@adharmi3458]

Posted 25 mins ago... you're the chosen one

[@alibarznji2000]

@@adharmi3458 lol

[@filmeseverin]

Christopher Hitchens was in error regarding the truth from/about God/Jesus. I have been, also, an atheist until the vision received.

[@alibarznji2000]

@@filmeseverin really? some historian said that some people said Jesus was not in his grave and that makes you believe he is God? could you be any more gullible?

[@alibarznji2000]

@Subutai I´m an atheist, and fuck you if that guys a murtad in your eyes.

[@jakubekch.3621]

Ahhh yess... The perfect recommendation at 2 am Finally I'll be able to fall asleep questioning my logic and beliefs

[@FabledNarrative]

Don't forget your identity. Staring at the ceiling, late at night, questioning your identity, is not to be forgotten. :P

[@petarvasiljevic8764]

@@FabledNarrative Check your watch every 30 seconds and remember who you are and where you came from :D

[@forgetmenot957]

Same!!!! 😊

[@younggrasshopper3531]

I’ll pray for you today because I’ve struggled similarly. I’ve come to Christ (or Him to me) and I pray you get there too

[@abc-yr8nf]

Night night

[@omarloi7389]

Thoroughly enjoyed watching and listening to this discourse. Rest in Peace Mr Christopher Hitchens.

[@sumatra_7174]

I doubt he is resting in peace. He probably desperately wishes to come back to earth for a different biography, but it's too late now

[@billincm1034]

​@@sumatra_7174nope not happening

[@mateah83]

@@sumatra_7174 Jesus loves Christopher more than he loves us and he is not being tormented anywhere if you claim to be person of God your consciousness wont go out of its way to constantley conceptualize misery but it will instead create and propose mercy for all things. or maybe you are a catholic which basically is satanism in that case go on keep professing your santeria voodo cult.

[@alainmaitre2069]

@@sumatra_7174 Probably ? Life and death is a mystery , we do not know whereor what he is now . We all go back to molecules ...

[@Twist52]

@@sumatra_7174How very loving of you

[@erikpierce7555]

Dr. Craig just won't let go of the argument that "Christopher has not presented any arguments that atheism is true." Hitchens addressed this directly multiple times....... In one ear and out the other..... and rather quickly

[@unforgiven9020]

Because it's his job

[@CedanyTheAlaskan]

Hm, similar can be said about Hitchens.

[@ChillAssTurtle]

Craig is a psychotic lunatic

[@lossnt557]

Yeah it was pretty frustrating when he would return to that tactic.

[@lossnt557]

@@CedanyTheAlaskan I don't think Hitchens did so to anywhere near the same degree or against similarly valid criticism. Craig started with basically that exact same line at the beginning of each of his arguments, Hitchens at least attempted to deconstruct his arguments thoughtfully and with adaptability. I don't think the same can be said for Craig.

[@LGpi314]

"Threatening an atheist with hell is like threatening to punch them in the aura." that's hilarious

[@markusbaker1161]

Hahahaha 😂😂😂 needed a laugh!!!

[@LGpi314]

@@markusbaker1161 You are always welcome.

[@Rizwan-vs1lg]

Atheists are stupid. They aren't that skeptical when it comes to day to day life and somehow become very skeptical when it comes to God. They can't define the criterion for proof or disproof, just try very hard to stick with their lunacy with stupid arguments.

[@malcolmmitchell4709]

Warning an atheist about Hell is like warning 18th century peasant digging up clumps of peat for fuel about climate change

[@LGpi314]

@@malcolmmitchell4709 "Warning an atheist about Hell" You sure can try. I as an atheist don't believe in hell so I'm good.

[@whtplstc]

You have to give Craig credit for doing the rhetorics equivalent of topless wrestling with a full-grown brown bear.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

[@whtplstc]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Ah, the timeless dance of sin and salvation, as choreographed by the religious faithful. Here we are again, at the precipice of moral dictums cast from the high heavens, or so we are told. It's always a bit theatrical. The grand narrative of sin - be it lying, stealing, or the kaleidoscope of sexual transgressions - juxtaposed against the celestial edict of divine love. The argument, as it is often presented, pivots on a rather quaint binary: love God with fervor, or find yourself in league with the devil, destined for the fiery abyss. A melodramatic request, if there ever was one. This presupposes, of course, a belief in a paternalistic deity who demands allegiance and punishes nonconformity with eternal damnation. It's the kind of theology that would have made Dante nod in solemn agreement. But let us pause for a moment of rational inquiry. The assertion that continuing in sin is tantamount to aligning oneself with the devil, and thus securing a one-way ticket to hell, is a splendid example of religious hyperbole. It's a scare tactic, a relic of medieval theology designed to keep the faithful in line. And this notion of adopting Jesus as a route to becoming a child of God and securing a celestial abode in heaven? It's a comforting narrative for those who subscribe to it, no doubt, but it's not without its philosophical and theological pitfalls. In essence, what we have here is a classic carrot-and-stick approach to morality. The carrot? Eternal bliss in heaven. The stick? Eternal torment in hell. It’s a binary system designed to coerce belief and obedience. But what of genuine moral reasoning? What of ethical behavior derived not from celestial reward or punishment, but from human empathy, social responsibility, and rational thought? To love one's neighbor, as the saying goes, is a principle that needs no divine mandate. It is, or should be, intrinsic to our nature as social beings. To reduce such an act to mere compliance with divine command is to strip it of its intrinsic value. In my view, true morality is not the blind following of ancient edicts, but the reasoned, empathetic interaction with our fellow human beings, irrespective of the rewards or punishments that may or may not await us in some distant, unproven hereafter.

[@Jelgraf]

​​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 seems like a rather selfish guy if he demands we do things his way regardless of if it affects anyone else or not

[@Marahute0]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 I would not want to enter heaven, not on his terms, if it existed 😂

[@missrandom7145]

Your first mistake would be likening the Creator of the universe to, "a guy.."​@@Jelgraf

[@thiagowutzkeod2453]

Graig's first statement: "I have no evidence, so i'll use feelings" is what I heard

[@El_Bruno7510]

Which is hilariously ironic, given that many theists complain that Hitchens avoids Craig's points and appeals to emotion!

[@LGpi314]

Pretty much sums it up.

[@filmeseverin]

@thiagowutzkeod2453 In brief, the Creator of this world (God/Divinity) exists because this reality, with us into it, is not the result of nothing, or the result of no intelligence, because *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes.* That is why atheists renounce to elementary logic and to simple rationality intentionally when they believe that this reality has always existed without any intelligence involved. *God is not bounded by what He has created,* but atheists, in their superficiality, do not want to recognize their limitations. For example, science will never be able to really know, at least, what a photon is (the magnification process being infinite). Regarding the Creator of this reality (the nature of God etc.), our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them (comparison mentioned in the Bible), but *we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to see God and what He expects from us.*

[@filmeseverin]

Therefore, those wise enough understand that *God is not bounded by time (not being bounded by what He has created), respectively He is eternal, always existed, which means that He was not created,* but atheists ignore, also, the other fact already mentioned by me about the nature of God that *our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them". Anyway, they have no excuse because we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to understand.*

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin "from no intelligence involved no intelligence comes" That is what your mother says about you. I'm your Satan. Come and party with me

[@FadedHeroFound]

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[@Car_Mo]

Those 12 word sums up atheism perfectly! Here's another thing i tend to say when people ask why i call myself an atheist: Religious people believe 1 god and reject 999 gods, as an atheist I simply reject all 1000 gods.

[@IR17171717]

@@Car_Mo Well...I mean you aren't actually saying that all religions are equally plausible?

[@FadedHeroFound]

@RUSSIAN ROBOT experiences aren't evidence they are anecdotes

[@YHWHisSovereign]

I agree. Atheism can simply be dismissed. It is a mentally bankrupt belief.

[@FadedHeroFound]

@RUSSIAN ROBOT what evidence do you have for the magic man's existence? Your backwards superstitious nonsense has none

[@RheT0racle]

the actual debate doesn't start until 0:13:45

[@AllanPatrick7]

Thanks

[@randomguy1221]

God bless your imaginary soul

[@SlatedMoon]

TY so much!!!

[@JP-rf8rr]

Thank you

[@YarJarRar]

Thank you.

[@danielsiebert5714]

Most atheists are content to say “I don’t know,” regarding the origin of the universe. Religious apologetics seem determined to say they know.

[@JohnTezlaNFS]

Saying I don't know is an actual answer, insted of jumping to a conclusion like religion, we need to backtrack and work our way to the answer, thats how cured most diseases, it is how we found out the orbits of planets, they say atheist think there was nothing, meanwhile this god just make the universe from nothing, we don't have a clear answer, and we might not get that answer in our lifetime, thats future generation problem.

[@TotalDramaOwenandNoah]

@@JohnTezlaNFS truth is there are more agnostics than athiests

[@gregogrady8027]

@@JohnTezlaNFSit isn’t really an answer when you can reasonably debunk the answers provided and have good reason to accept evidence pointing towards a conclusion. It is however a cope to deal with an answer you don’t like.

[@stevenselleck5460]

For people who "don't know" they sure seem to act like they know all religions are false. But ofc faith and leaps of logic are only for religious folks

[@TotalDramaOwenandNoah]

@@stevenselleck5460 preach. they gon' cancel you for telling the truth. "how can you be so sure there is a God" It goes both ways you pricks. They're so sure there's no God without even looking a single bit into the faith or having an open mind. Cause i don't just believe in God, he believes in me.

[@rubensantiago6403]

I Have to admit I watch and listen to the whole thing ! First it was nice to see and see two very intelligent guys laughing joking enjoying and sharing their thoughts and beliefs with no name calling arguing anger disrespecting anyone ect.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

[@LGpi314]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 How many horrible things you have done in your life that you need that much forgiveness. You believe in a killer god. During the Noah's Ark episode, not only did God kill all the human beings, but all the animals that lived on land too, except for the two on the Ark. So, why was that? What did God have for the animals? They had no original sin, considering that they had not eaten from the tree of Good/Evil when Yahweh told them not to, they couldn't be punished for not believing in Yahweh, simply because animals don't seem to need religion in their lives. (Have you ever heard of a penguin praying? No, the idea seems silly.) So, why did your God decide that he needed to murder all the animals as well as the humans? Why would you believe in this god?

[@elbiedorman1266]

@@LGpi314sorry to say that, that’s your problem.

[@LGpi314]

What is my problem? 😂😂😂

[@HarryShagnasty-sc9zd]

@rubensantiago6403 Just one of the two is very intelligent, the other is a babbling idiot.

[@noahlucas474]

I don't think Craig understands the fact that just because we don't have an explanation right now, doesn't mean there isn't one

[@whatsinaname691]

Calling God of the gaps on metaphysics makes no sense. WLC made a perfectly logical argument that you should go with the best supported hypothesis until another better one takes its place, so unless you deny science on the grounds that we might find even better answers later, then you don’t have a point. Also, Craig legit said absence of ev isn’t ev of absence, so I’m sure he’s well aware

[@zyxnull]

​@@whatsinaname691 the problem with that supported hypothesis is that, in essence, it doesn't differ from any other religion in the world, I mean, anyone can say for instance say "here is the book of Michael, Michael says the world was created by him, Michael exists, thus it is the best explanation and we should go with it". Having an "argument" or as you said "hypothesis" is simply not enough, specially when such arguments makes such presumptions claims with so little evidence, Hitchens said something along the lines in the beginning. Also, there's really no pressure at all to choose a religion when in fact we don't know the facts, that's actually rushed acting

[@mrsatire9475]

@@whatsinaname691 Every God/Goddess has been disproven by other religious people.

[@MattanzaMafiaFedora]

That's basically the perfect summary of what Atheistic Faith is... You can't say that the irony of your words is non-existent.

[@mrsatire9475]

@@MattanzaMafiaFedora Your faith has already been disproven by more devout religious folks.

[@americannacho]

back when people weren't terrified of opposing views

[@LGpi314]

Every time I see a theist accusing atheists of attacking them, I think of this quote: “Religious apologists complain bitterly that Atheists and Secularists are aggressive and hostile in their criticism of them. I always say: look, when you guys were in charge, you didn’t argue with us, you just burnt us at the stake. Now what we’re doing is, we’re presenting you with some arguments and some challenging questions, and you complain.” - A.C. Grayling

[@RosaSilva-bq5sp]

​@@LGpi314son resentidos porque la religión se les impuso y se les dominó.

[@luciennoxisou9502]

where are people terrified of opposing views?

[@americannacho]

@@luciennoxisou9502 are you that out of touch? or just too young to notice the shift? they run this very platform my guy 😂 we can barely have real discussion or debate on serious topics now due to people who think the solution to "bad ideas" isn't better ideas.. rather its just to ban the "bad ideas"

[@luciennoxisou9502]

@@americannacho lol, huh - I’m probably older than you, but what context or platforms are you talking about wherein all this debate is not occurring ? Mainstream media ? Academia ? On the street ? Social media ?

[@TomMotTom]

Craig was hung up on the idea that the burden of proof lies with atheists while it is the opposite. He started of very well and I was almost inclined to understand him but with every minute after his first speech his whole argument crumbled under Hitchens and funnily enough, under himself as the amount of mental gymnastics he performed left one too many holes in his argument.

[@MojoPin1983]

@TomMotTom The burden of proof lies with anyone making a positive truth claim. Since the debate topic was ‘Does God Exists?’ Craig, as the theist, had the burden of proving God’s existence, and Hitchens, as the atheist, had the burden of proving God’s non-existence. To those who will inevitably say that atheism is merely a lack of belief, therefore, Hitchens had no burden to shoulder, this is a convenient and cowardly excuse to avoid the need to present evidence in support of atheism. By default, this debate, and any others that center around the same topic, require one party to offer arguments for God’s existence and the other to do the opposite. If the atheist in these sorts of debates merely claims to lack belief in God, then what exactly are they doing there; how can they even postulate arguments in defense of a lack of belief, as opposed to one’s in defense of a firm stance on the question at hand? One can’t just gainsay their opponent in a debate without countering their arguments with one’s of their own. It’s not enough to criticize the positions of one’s interlocutor; one has to show that their beliefs are false and theirs are true. Hitchens did not do this. Moreover, the “lack of belief” statement is not in keeping with the standard definition of atheism that is used in philosophy. See the following definition below. (From the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy): The word “atheism” is polysemous-it has multiple related meanings. In the psychological sense of the word, atheism is a psychological state, specifically the state of being an atheist, where an atheist is defined as someone who is not a theist and a theist is defined as someone who believes that God exists (or that there are gods). This generates the following definition: atheism is the psychological state of lacking the belief that God exists. In philosophy, however, and more specifically in the philosophy of religion, the term “atheism” is standardly used to refer to the proposition that God does not exist (or, more broadly, to the proposition that there are no gods). Thus, to be an atheist on this definition, it does not suffice to suspend judgment on whether there is a God, even though that implies a lack of theistic belief. Instead, one must deny that God exists. This metaphysical sense of the word is preferred over other senses, including the psychological sense, not just by theistic philosophers, but by many (though not all) atheists in philosophy as well. For example, Robin Le Poidevin writes, “An atheist is one who denies the existence of a personal, transcendent creator of the universe, rather than one who simply lives his life without reference to such a being” (1996: xvii). J. L. Schellenberg says that “in philosophy, the atheist is not just someone who doesn’t accept theism, but more strongly someone who opposes it.” In other words, it is “the denial of theism, the claim that there is no God” (2019: 5). This definition is also found in multiple encyclopedias and dictionaries of philosophy. For example, in the Concise Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, William L. Rowe (also an atheist) writes, “Atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief” (2000: 62). The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy recognizes multiple senses of the word “atheism”, but is clear about which is standard in philosophy: [Atheism is] the view that there are no gods. A widely used sense denotes merely not believing in god and is consistent with agnosticism [in the psychological sense]. A stricter sense denotes a belief that there is no god; this use has become standard.

[@citizenghosttown]

@@MojoPin1983 Nope. Thats just a poor justification for taking on a straw man. Hitchen's burden is to defend the position he actually HOLDS -- not the position that you, or William Lane Craig, would like to saddle him with. Any dictionary - including the one you reference -- will provide multiple definitions for atheism. So won't get very far by selectively cherry picking from dictionaries. That's a rhetorical game. The position that Hitchens holds --- as he explains repeatedly, is the same position that Bertrand Russel held, and the same position that most atheists hold: "There is no good reason to believe the existence of a supernatural creator being - and so I don't."

[@MojoPin1983]

@@citizenghosttown How does one defend a lack of belief? That doesn’t make any sense. One can only defend something that they believe to be true. Even by saying there is no good reason to believe in a supernatural creator being, the one so is making a positive truth claim. That is a bald assertion that requires some explanation. To just lazily make such a statement and not demonstrate why it is true is to fail to fulfill one’s obligation. What dictionaries are you referring to? If you’re talking about regular new, such as Merriam Webster, that is not what professional philosophers use to define philosophical terms. For that it is proper to use philosophical dictionaries/encyclopedias. You calling that “cherry-picking” betrays ignorance. No serious philosopher of religion affirms the “lack of belief” terminology as a valid definition. This is largely something only held to by new atheists and those in internet chat forums.

[@LGpi314]

@@MojoPin1983 "[Atheism is] the view that there are no gods. " How many times do we have to correct you and WLC that is not it? We reject your religious claims for the lack of evidence. There is always "because" in our statements. There is no god because you THEISTS have not shown any evidence of your gods.

[@LGpi314]

@@MojoPin1983 "How does one defend a lack of belief?" The lack of belief for the lack of evidence. It is simple but you and WLC can't comprehend it because it does not fit into your narrative so you portray the atheism the way it fits and not what it is. There is nothing to defend in the lack of beliefs. I lack the belief in tooth fairies, Santa, Lord Voldemort, talking snakes and donkeys, and any gods. You only lack of belief in everything except your god.

[@JudgeYuri]

Hitchens was the greatest debater ever. He is missed so much in our current times

[@LGpi314]

@@earlocampo He i up there. Even after his death, he continues triggering religious snowflakes.

[@earlocampo]

@@LGpi314 he didn’t believe in God. He’s nowhere based on his beliefs. Clearly you didn’t know. Just because people believe im God doesn’t make them a snowflake.

[@LGpi314]

@@earlocampo "he didn’t believe in God." Neither do I. What does it have to do with being a good debater? "Just because people believe im God doesn’t make them a snowflake." That is true, but lots of them get triggered by Hitchens slaps.

[@LGpi314]

@@earlocampo I have never said he was the greatest but he was very very good. I can't say this about WLC at all. Even when WLC has credentials but he is full of bullcrap and fallacies.

[@oldschoolsaint]

He got pasted in this debate. He never even made an attempt to defend his position.

[@xerxes5785]

Hitchens explained to him like 10 times in different ways, why he doesn’t have to prove a non-existence, that the burden of proof is on the person who’s making the claim. Then every single time he went and repeated the same thing “We haven’t heard any good arguments of why Atheism is real!” It’s like what this person wrote in his book “Whenever you are presented with the contradictory evidence you should always choose your faith over that” is actually true. No matter what anyone says or what evidence you are presented with, all you gotta do is repeat the same nonsense as you always have...

[@kevinharmoning7609]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmfHq3ive7J_fKs

[@TmanT321]

Atheism is real whether they like it or not. "Atheism" is the rejection of any god of any kind. It's a belief and it exists, so therefore it is obviously real. He could replace the word "atheist" here with any other religion and make the same shitty argument lol, except that would equate to his religion as well so he can't he has to use Atheism because "atheists evil".

[@dupersuper1000]

@@TmanT321 What do you mean by “atheism exists”? And how does that imply a burden of proof in any way? Seriously, it doesn’t logically follow. Look, atheism simply doesn’t mean “positive belief that no gods exist.” There is a smaller subset of atheism that does make that claim, but it’s just a subset. Craig knows this, and he even admits it when he accidentally slips up and says the phrase “also known as *positive* atheism”. He’s just playing word games to force Hitchens to accept a burden of proof that doesn’t really belong to him. And that whole idea is ridiculous in other ways. If we all start out as blank slates, without any real knowledge of the universe, then we don’t know about any gods, the entire concept of god is foreign to us. We start off just investigating the world and forming mental models to explain it. If we don’t start with knowledge of “deity” as a concept or category, then we simply don’t have any claims at all about deities. It’s only when a religious person *introduces a claim* about their god that we even begin to consider such a claim. And even then, we are not obligated to form a belief in one direction or the other. We can just accept “I don’t know” as a final answer on the matter. The challenge for theists is that they can’t say “I don’t know.” They can say something like “I can’t prove it,” which is a different thing, but the foundation of their worldview is that they DO know. They are asserting a truth claim about a deity that they have to go out of their way to describe and define, which further demonstrates that they are the ones introducing a claim to an otherwise claim-free context. If you really want to talk about other religions, then let’s go there. Does a Buddhist child raised in a remote Buddhist village have any idea what you mean by “god” when you ask her? Probably not. She hasn’t been introduced to the concept of “god”, and is content with a religious worldview that doesn’t require any notion of “god”. So she doesn’t have a claim for or against the existence of a god. If you explained what a “god” is to her, and told her you think your god exists, she might just shrug her shoulders and say, “Sure, I guess that is possible, but it really doesn’t affect my worldview in any way.” Or she might say, “That idea sounds silly, but you are welcome to demonstrate the truth of your claim. I don’t have a reason to believe it until you provide a lot more evidence.” The only reason it would ever make sense for atheists to bear the burden of proof is if we *assume a priori* that God exists, and that the evidence for God is shown to everyone everywhere, for all time. If that were the case, then sure, it would make sense for everyone to be expected to have some kind of opinion about it (although it’s still fair to say “I don’t know”). This is the presuppositionalist argument, and it’s inherently circular, since it presupposes God’s existence as a premise in an argument for God’s existence. And Craig is certainly not a presuppositionalist.

[@dupersuper1000]

@Frank Silvers I think I explained it pretty well in my above comment. Is there anything in there that doesn’t make sense to you?

[@TmanT321]

​@@dupersuper1000 Yes, the entire thing. Please go back to your cult meetings and leave the smart people to move the world forward. The burden of proof lies with you, because you claim something exists. If you accuse someone of a crime, the burden of proof falls on you to give evidence for that crime. The person being accused does not have to prove something that did not happen. That's why we have the fifth amendment. The same logic follows with god. You claim the bible it true, therefore you must provide outside evidence, but you cannot. You are a sentient lugnut.

[@nimo517]

“If we can’t go with a real theory, we go for a conspiracy theory.”

[@TheWisdomRoom]

All animals in Gen 1:20-26 took their evolutionary descent form a single "kind"- Darwin got evolution form his Greek Bible - Genom meaning kind . This video explains it objectively - kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnWxXmecltSXprs

[@michaellie3333]

That depends on how you define the word "real"

[@ob2249]

@@TheWisdomRoom kind, is a nebulous, illdefined, meaningless unscientific term. hovind uses. kent hovind ...? you know ? unqualified renowned creationist moron. kind, as a means to differentiate species is useless. ask some bona fide evolutionary biologists why its bogus. then you will learn something. so you are a biblical evolutionist. lol do we assume you believe noah ? lol an imaginary friend and an imaginary flood?. lol

[@zia9772]

@@TheWisdomRoom Youre tripping we all know that no gods exist, living or dead. Anyone that says that they live by the bible is a complete and total liar.

[@zia9772]

@@TheWisdomRoom Lmmfao. . . You do know that the Greek bible was written in. . . Wait for it. . . GREEK.

[@andrewdegroot5247]

"Infinity is just an idea in your mind, that doesn't exist in reality" says Dr Craig....Yet he doesn't see the obvious parallels

[@filmeseverin]

Regardless that error of Mr. Craig (nobody is perfect), he is on the side of the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth. Generally, those from such videos, exposed to my clear and undeniable demonstrations but who still want to remain atheists, are ignoring intentionally the simple fact that *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* hoping that this reality is the result of no intelligence, in other words that God does not exist, only to escape the responsibility for their deeds, to not be Judged by God/Jesus after the leaving of this world, but they are in error. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 My simple and undeniable demonstrations can be found still quite easily after sorting the comments (especially my thread posted about one week ago, besides my answers).

[@ThatGuyBobby]

​@@filmeseverinI don't understand why christians quote scripture when talking to atheists, it's like if I posted quotes from Harry Potter to make a point.

[@filmeseverin]

As usual, are in denial (without counterarguments, of course) only those who are too superficial to think enough to understand *the simple fact that from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* the entire process until nowadays proving the existence of God because *the results of a process prove the intelligence involved into that process* (even schoolchildren can understand that every photon, ... atom, ... cell has intelligence into it, *not to mention their functionality together).* They ignore the intelligence put from the beginning. For example, the intelligence mentioned includes the exact value of the speed of light matching the manifestation of what we call "gravity", working together since the primordial conditions to form in the end this reality, which hosts intelligent life that is able to feel / understand / admire / enjoy / respect / love the Creator, especially through His human form, Jesus Christ. The truth is only one but those too deceived will not sort the comments to read the messages that prove their errors, just to keep their deceiving. Only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations.

[@filmeseverin]

Those too deceived will not read *entirely and carefully* the messages that prove their errors, just to keep their deceiving. Only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic (to simple rationality) cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations. The serious and honest atheists will sort the comments and read enough from my messages to find the answers to all their matters/questions, to understand the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth.

[@mrsatire9475]

@@filmeseverin "the simple fact that from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes" - You haven't provided any evidence of this claim. You fail

[@Paumanokcom]

Craig's presentation was an excellent example of the benefits of rehearsing the speech out loud and then adding in hand and head gestures to accent each point.

[@LGpi314]

AND!?!? All of it was bullcrap and fallacies.

[@ballisticfish1212]

@@LGpi314I think that’s the point the original commenter is making

[@Paumanokcom]

Steve Jobs. If I can get a cold bottle of vodka in every ice box the Russians won't fight.

[@LGpi314]

@@Paumanokcom WHAT!?!?!

[@Thomas-bq4ed]

Hahaha it’s what he’s good at. Dawkins just pointed that out

[@D94Rich]

Respect to Biola for actually platforming the opposition and providing a debate that students can derive their own conclusions from. Amazing how only about 6 years after this, the new norm is anything but hearing both sides

[@AJ-mo6mw]

To many universities are nowno longer about learning, but indoctrination, sadly.

[@therealtrucker7564]

This video was posted in 2014. The actual debate was in 2009 and Hitchens died in 2011

[@daleglenny1133]

I wonder what Mr Hitchens would have made of Trump.

[@daleglenny1133]

timothy clancy If you don’t see the connection between religiosity and the current interloper, I can’t help you.

[@daleglenny1133]

timothy clancy didn’t ask for your help. I was just musing.

[@jtg1972]

Theism: "God exists." Atheism: "I don't believe you." Very simple concept.

[@harrysager8903]

Where does personal experience fall into this? Have an unreal story about my firm belief in Jesus after some incredible circumstances!

[@harrysager8903]

@TJordan14 You don't know or have enough info to make an intelligent decision about this.

[@NewtonVieira]

God created this universe A big blast occurred out of nowhere. Both require extraordinary faith 😂

[@jtg1972]

@@NewtonVieira wrong. Faith is belief in something with no evidence to support it. Science doesn't claim anything to be absolute, simply the best case scenario. Religion is the one who makes absolute claims, with nothing to back it up. Not to mention the fact that the claims science makes are demonstrable and verifiable. Can't say the same about religion!😜

[@NewtonVieira]

@@jtg1972 execept there is no evidence pointing to a big bang but its widely accepted by scientists 🤷‍♂️

[@adrianryan5654]

Why? Why does a god want to bring the maximum number of people freely into his kingdom to find salvation and eternal life? What is the purpose of that for god? What would be the purpose of eternal life, if the only purpose of mortal life is to achieve eternal life?

[@AdamKlownzinger]

“There are true ideas that may have had negative social impacts” - Craig 2:01:30 or so “I don’t want to live in a world where there is no objective moral basis for saying that ______ is objectively wrong” - Craig, or “The atheist worldview is one in which the universe eventually dies and the world suffers a heat death and there is no ultimate ‘transcendent’ purpose to your existence” - Craig Setting aside the argument in favor of an objective morality just based on evolution…why don’t you want to live in that world? Because you think it would be less happy than one where the all powerful sky dictator says that something is or is not good? Sounds to me like you’re denying that something might be true on the grounds that it might be harmful to society.

[@filmeseverin]

It is stupid to be evil and it is evil to be stupid. *All evil has been done because of stupidity and the main/worst stupidity has always been to not listen by God/Jesus.* This short earthly life is a school and exam for our immortal souls (us), for those who did not listen by the Creator to understand the value of "light" without experiencing the "darkness". This reality has been created intentionally so that freedom to be 100% offered, God rewarding accordingly the free choices/deeds *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 The problem is with those who have used (are using) their freedom for doing evil on purpose. That is why it is not easy to fight continuously with what Satan has done to this world (carnivores, parasites, viruses, bad bacteria... the so called _"weeds"_ in Matthew 13:24-43) and to ourselves ... because *until our physical death we fight with the works of the fallen angels and of their tools, the evil=stupid people, the consequences of evilness = stupidity.*

[@coconejococonejo]

That's the good thing about science, it's true whether you believe in it or not.

[@ikawpipa]

Thank God for Science.

[@coconejococonejo]

Joe L god has nothing to do with science because he doesn't exist

[@ikawpipa]

Fish became Humans, and that is science folks.

[@ikawpipa]

Humans came from a Fish. is this scientific or appealing to emotions?

[@ikawpipa]

so where did Humans come from?

[@stevenfisher3134]

Why don’t our political debates happen this respectful, calm and rationally.

[@disgruntledmum4916]

Appealing to emotion and playing to the audience is far more visually entertaining than reasoned discussion. If politicians had to build a convincing argument and cite facts as a basis, the population would realise they make it up as they go along.

[@alexgarcia9852]

i know right man i hope i woud be like that

[@joefisher7792]

Because they give a person just so much power

[@guardofrr]

Because they rid themselves of the intelligentsia because they thought it would be wise Now public opinion is formed by directly involving the people in discussions instead of letting them be arbiters between intellectuals, the only thing the people are somewhat good at Bought and paid for 'intellectuals' telling the people what to think, the rise of the term 'intellectual honesty' while it was supposed to be integral The 'dangers' of having capable intellectuals, debaters, ruining establishment narratives A new order based on fear and control brought by certified intellectuals and technocrats

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Although, of course, for much of religious history, theologians were often very much like how Jaap Aap describes, too...

[@brahmanspleroma3792]

Atheism doesn't claim truth. It states a position based on existing evidence. We don't say God doesn't exist, we say we don't believe in God because there is no reason to do so.

[@filmeseverin]

*All evil has been done because of stupidity and the main/worst stupidity has always been to not listen by God/Jesus.* In particular, for mankind, if ALL people (over history and nowadays) would have followed the main commandment from Jesus Christ, *besides to love / respect our Heavenly Father, to love / respect (care for) the other humans as we love / respect (care for) ourselves,* all the crimes and the tremendous useless suffering would have never happen.

[@filmeseverin]

Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately: - so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War); - so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc. - sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general.

[@filmeseverin]

We should never fight against each other but only against our lack of useful knowledge / wisdom (for decreasing our ignorance), while loving / respecting each other as we love / respect ourselves, these being the main requests of God/Jesus. Therefore, both science and proper education are very important to understand God's creation and what is better, regarding the human behavior, so that ALL of us can be not only happier in our ephemera life into this world (while we are still alive here) but also deserving, or at least allowable, for perpetual life in Heaven (after leaving this world).

[@brahmanspleroma3792]

@@filmeseverin Just stop.

[@LGpi314]

@@brahmanspleroma3792 You are dealing with "copy-and-paste only" M0R0N filmseverin

[@rotvonrat]

Dr. Craig can easily turn anyone into an atheist with proving that God exists.

[@filmeseverin]

After hearing the truth about/from God/Jesus, only those who want to use freedom for evil are opposing to Divinity, feeling their freedom restricted, the really good humans being happy to receive the confirmation for their love of / striving for goodness, wisdom, justice... for perfection, as Jesus Christ has said: *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this.

[@Thorinbur]

Big thumbs up to BiolaUniversity for being welcoming to opposing views, hosting the debate AND allowing comments. Appreciate it.

[@patrickadedewe3145]

is this a scientific based debate or philosophy based debate or even more or thelogical

[@craiggallagher7292]

I do too. I found it quite refreshing to see the evangelical host of the event appeared genuinely welcoming to Hitchens and the atheist/agnostic community in attendance, plus he had a good sense of humor. Bravo.

[@j.c.follower6538]

@@patrickadedewe3145without God there would be no internet, without God there would be nothing. God is, God was, God is eternal, God is sovereign. He is the beginning the end. I feel sorry for people that don't believe. Whats the point of life. Please don't say evolution, biggest crock ever plus there is no God? Yes there is a God! I can't make someone believe in God. Believing in God takes faith. No one ever made believe, my heart told me , its a feeling of knowing. This is just my opinion.

[@louisvalencia5244]

@@j.c.follower6538 How Christianity is scientific?

[@taargustaargus3139]

@@j.c.follower6538 lol

[@SerendipitousProvidence]

Pft, amateurs! I came to hear from the real expert theologians and scientists and unprecedented philosophy prodigies in the comment section.

[@Alex-yr8iy]

Same here

[@Reignor99]

I paused at 0:01 and scrolled down immediately lol. But I've probably already seen this debate anyways.

[@ossiedunstan4419]

@Thomas Jefferson You got evidence for the disciple's , bit of conformation bias along with large does ignorant happening here.The bible is the claim ,you cant use the bible as evidence ,its not.

[@ohmahfoot3995]

@@ossiedunstan4419 if you don’t mind clarifying for me, why can’t the Bible be used as evidence?

[@johnbuell8035]

@@ohmahfoot3995 I’ll clarify that for you. Because it’s a load of bollocks. I think that cuts to the chase.

[@AdamKlownzinger]

Questioner: “Is the bible right that sex with animals is wrong?” Craig: “a naturalistic view would be that anything in nature is good, nothing in nature bars you if there’s no objective moral code” Honestly this feels like one of the most childish religious arguments out there…which came first, the chicken or the egg; which came first, is having sex with animals bad, and the other sexual misdeeds mentioned in the bible are bad, because the bible says so, or does the bible and practically every other religious text explicitly or implicitly condemn sex with animals because its something that human beings figured out was bad for our survival? It seems obvious that it’s the latter and there’s no reason to try and insert a sky monster to solve this problem.

[@KnowMad1]

I wish William Lane Craig wouldn’t quote others so much. It’s like you’re throwing people under the bus by using them and to make incomplete points.

[@filmeseverin]

Generally, those from such videos, exposed to my clear and undeniable demonstrations but who still want to remain atheists, are ignoring intentionally the simple fact that *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* hoping that this reality is the result of no intelligence, in other words that God does not exist, only to escape the responsibility for their deeds, to not be Judged by God/Jesus after the leaving of this world, but they are in error. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 My simple and undeniable demonstrations can be found quite easily after sorting the comments.

[@filmeseverin]

@KnowMad1 Any serious and honest reader can see how atheists are already proved wrong. Only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations.

[@peterjones5004]

A rich man asked Jesus. How can I get into heaven to which Jesus said give all your worldly wealth to the poor. Why doesn’t the church do that .

[@graenovember]

The church's wealth is used to build and maintain hospitals, charities and for other humanitarian purposes. I'm sure not all is for good though, but majority of it is for good. In the early Church of St. Peter, the people gave their wealth to him so that everyone shared wealth and had what they need. No one was without. The same thing is done by the Church now but on a much grander scale. Some of the Church's wealth is used to renovate old churches to attract more church goers and for other humanitarian reasons.

[@graenovember]

They do give their wealth to the poor. You may say, "Then why is the Vatican so grand and beautiful?" Well, that took many years to build and art is art. It's treated as a holy place also for the congregation of Catholics and Christians so it serves a good purpose. The Vatican now only spends in maintainence and not too much on making new things without reason.

[@amonks891]

Rae Estomata then they should use the money they aren’t spending on patronage to further alleviate the poor, perhaps even enough to make a significant difference to the worldwide poverty scene.

[@graenovember]

@@amonks891 to be fair, poverty is a reoccuring problem that really depends on the government and other high-profile companies. I don't know how much money you think the Church has but you have to consider the amount to pay for tax on property and all the other small things that run a building/organization. You can ask the same thing of big companies like Microsoft who donate much to charity because they are required to. And yet, poverty still exists in the world. The Church alone selling all they have or just giving everything away will not help the poor forever, but it will cause current charities, hospitals, and churches they have to collapse. Poverty is solved by multiple people (govt, individuals, large companies) and cannot be shouldered by the Church alone.

[@graenovember]

@@amonks891 to add to that, the Church in itself is a sanctuary for criminals or people in need. There's that law that dictates if someone asks for sanctuary in a church or seminary, the government can't touch them. It's not a one-all-be-all effort the Church does to help the poor. It's a continuous process that exists to help them because giving away everyting at one moment will only last for a short while. They already do have programs for the poor but it depends on what country you are in.

[@danielbundalian6659]

I didn’t come for the two very well educated men that engaged in a debate. I came for the REAL educated experts in this comment section. Edit: Y’allwent crazy on my comment LOL. I can spot the “educated experts” that have no idea what they’re talking about (Looking at you Atheist)! Though some of you atheists bring up good points consistent with other educated atheist, a lot of you are kinda failing lol. Keep going y’all, it’s fun to watch and get a fricking email every time someone comments :/

[@tomgreene2282]

I hope you are not disappointed....?

[@DiboraBinebeb]

Ahahahagha same

[@hopaideia]

Being a cubs fan, it's understandable

[@Legorreta.M.D]

2 well educated men in the debate? I hope you do not mean that, since "Dr." Craig has still not understood what atheism is and is perfectly happy to openly show how ignorant he is on basic biology and evolution

[@topcatcoolio8807]

Oh that's me then 😄

[@lennartpesonen6051]

If Jesus died for our sins then how come he’s alive? If I pay for someone else, say at a restaurant, I cant go back there and demand a refund after 3 days. A deal is a deal!"

[@filmeseverin]

Answered already above, when the comments are sorted.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin No, you lied above. LMAO. Believers in Jesus belong to a church. What Christian denomination do you belong to? Imposter! Deceiver! Every honest reader definitely knows to ignore you and your lies. Why do Romanians lie so much? There is no intelligence in you for sure. Every honest reader sees it. Stop lying.

[@marvelsandals4228]

Disclaimer: I'm an ex-Christian, quite happy to be as such, and view the late Hitchens as a hero. Nevertheless, I'll give the "devil" his due: Craig is damn good at his job. In the vast majority of these old debate recordings the representative for theism is a bumbling fool who can scarcely put forth a single coherent thought or engage with criticism. The fact that (warts and all) Craig can stand on the same stage as the late Hitchens and seem even remotely like he belongs there as a worth adversary is a "miracle". Not only is Craig generally a coherent and articulate speaker in general, but I get the sense that where Hitchens usually obliterates his opponents so completely that even theists know that Hitchens won hands down, Craig has a quality about him that is mysteriously "Hitchen-proof" like a suit of armor that repels Hitchens tactics that are normally a smash hit. For example, noticing and pressing Hitchens on seemingly trivial details that he failed to provide a sufficient answer or evidence for, and each time Hitchens ignored it in favor of a related tangent, Craig would calmly return to his former point and press him again. He also suggested at least once that he wasn't certain that theism must be true, but rather that it was more plausible than atheism, based on the data available. I can't say I've ever met a devout theist who was so willing to say "you're right, there may be no god," its a surprisingly effective tactic to flip the script in that way. It is refreshing I think to see a worthy opponent every now and then exert some pressure on the representative of atheism, as perhaps it will keep atheists on their toes, keep us honest, so to speak, in making sure we put forth the arguments in the clearest, most articulate way possible. Regardless of the truth, we are all better for it if both sides can produce the best arguments and criticism possible.

[@LGpi314]

" Craig is damn good at his job." Is he though? LMAO. Smoke and mirrors. Nothing else.

[@filmeseverin]

Most atheists hope that this reality is the result of no intelligence, in other words that God does not exist, only to escape the responsibility for their deeds, to not be Judged after they leave this world, but they are wrong: *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 The superficial ones do not think enough to realize/understand *the simple fact that from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* the entire process until nowadays proving the existence of God because *the results of a process prove the intelligence involved into that process* (even schoolchildren can understand that every photon, ... atom, ... cell has intelligence into it, *not to mention their functionality together).* They ignore the intelligence put from the beginning. For example, the intelligence mentioned includes the exact value of the speed of light matching the manifestation of what we call "gravity", working together since the primordial conditions to form in the end this reality, which hosts intelligent life that is able to feel / understand / admire / enjoy / respect / love the Creator, especially through His human form, Jesus Christ.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin Atheists know you are full of bullcrap from romania or macadonia. You lie for jesus.

[@marvelsandals4228]

@@LGpi314 It should come as no surprise to you which hypothesis I find more plausible, in spite of the debate, and no, it's not Craig's hypothesis. Is it smoke and mirrors? Partially, of course. It's a debate. Like it or not, smoke and mirrors can be effective debate tactics, regardless of the truth value of the arguments at play. The bigger concern to me is that the late Hitchens, with all his wit, didn't expose the tricks you and I recognize in this case. Perhaps it is a tactic to act as tho your opponent's arguments are so absurd that they don't dignify a serious response, but that too is a smoke and mirrors tactic, and Craig capitalized on every slight weakness in his approach, every "dodged" question or topic as proof that Hitchens was stumped and that is an effective tactic unless you engage with it at some point. The cosmological argument is one of the few that is even remotely coherent. Fine tuning is meh at best, but look at all the silly things he says after that, you'd think they were low hanging fruit as if Craig was giving him a lay up, a license to humiliate him live on his home turf, yet Hitchens didn't fully capitalize on the myriad of weaknesses before him, or apply the same precise pressure on Craig. He was too easily carried away on tangents that are (admittedly) effective persuasive tools he's used to great success before, but there's a time and a place, perhaps at the outset or end of a debate, not in the middle as a substitute for engaging directly with silly claims and taking your opponent to task. Hitchens seemed to lack his usual killer instinct to pounce on his opponent's weaknesses and catch them with their hand in the cookie jar. We've seen him do it dozens of times, but not a great showing this time. He did ok, made some good points, funny jokes, etc. but I feel as tho he let Craig get away with too much when he didn't have to. Perhaps I expected more from him after seeing what he's capable of and makes seem effortless in other settings.

[@marvelsandals4228]

@@filmeseverin Unfortunately, citing a verse of scripture isn't a particularly effective tactic if the person you're speaking to doesn't believe the book is the word of God. Try to imagine if I were to cite verses of the quran or other texts, would that persuade you? Hopefully, you appreciate the point. I mean yeah, I'm glad innocent, average, moral folks, trying their best to survive in a cruel world, love and appreciate their family and friends, fulfill their duties, etc. the vast of whom are themselves devout, practicing believers in one or more gods, many in the same one as you, aren't going to be tortured in hell forever for being born into the wrong religion, the wrong sect, with the wrong doctrine, or worshipping the wrong way. I'm glad that the so called omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient being who apparently exists and loves us all enough to not lift a finger to save the victims of disease and natural disasters even as they call out to him in prayer, I'm glad he won't have the opportunity to express the full depth of his so called love in the torture chamber forever. Thankfully, neither he nor the hell that makes millions shudder with fear exist, nor is there any evidence that they do, aside from the book you quoted, which is an admittedly masterful work of literature, but one written by men that certainly isn't an accurate account of history. If I am tragically mistaken and will burn in hell for spending a decade researching the various sects of Christianity, their doctrines, interpretations of the Bible, etc. and concluding that the most plausible conclusion is that none of them has it right, but they all begin from faulty premises, if indeed I shall be sentenced to eternal damnation for going where the evidence led in an earnest search for the truth, then I wonder if God himself will stand trial to be judged for his actions? Will he be judged for the flood? How about ordering Abraham murder his son? How about ordering the genocides of the various inhabitants of the promised land, I could go on and on, the old testament is an endless sequence of horrifying massacres, if a human did this they might actually deserve something as horrifying as hellfire, not quite, but it would be worthy of consideration. Will God be punished for all the evil things he has done? No, because he didn't do them, because none of this happened. It's a book.

[@ThePi314Man]

"infinity isn't possible so therefore there is an infinite God!" *WHAT?!*

[@pidayrocks2235]

It makes sense if you don't think about it :)

[@christopherchuauhang4829]

@@pidayrocks2235 NO it doesn't

[@hueydo3522]

What he meant was that since infinity of time mark the beggining is impossible hence there is an God who power is infinite created and started everything marked the beggining of time.

[@jaquashabazz6262]

The Creator is not limited to the laws of His Creation.

[@MartTLS]

Jaqua Shabazz That’s because there is no creator and therefore no creation.

[@MCOult]

How often, these days, would a college crowd allow to speak guests who differ from them? And how often, these days, would speakers who differ from each other treat each other with respect and courtesy? How horribly things have changed over the past decade.

[@MCOult]

@Late to the Game Mine, either. But then, I was in college about 50 years ago. Different era (thankfully).

[@Datharass]

This was done because the crowd, venue and speaker thought they could handle Mr. Hitchens in a variety of ways. They'll never understand he has more conviction than they do. He wasn't given his opinion he formed his own and he knows it. The world won't be the same without you Christopher. Cheers mate!

[@KyleCyree]

@@Datharass Correct. Hitchens is non-emotional, fact-based, and simply factual. WLC, per usual, seems like he is working on a sermon. Hitch is prepared for a conversation, WLC is prepared for a paper with footnotes.

[@krispybacon9285]

rn they would be jumping up infront of the speakers screaming and chanting all while the gutless faculty does nothing until eventually someone pulls a fire alarm

[@michaelsteven24]

Frequently

[@jaredhowell7104]

Atheism doesn't fall into true or false. It just says that there's no proof for god

[@filmeseverin]

In brief, the Creator of this world (God/Divinity) exists because this reality, with us into it, is not the result of nothing, or the result of no intelligence, because *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes.* That is why atheists renounce to elementary logic and to simple rationality intentionally when they believe that this reality has always existed without any intelligence involved. *God is not bounded by what He has created,* but atheists, in their superficiality, do not want to recognize their limitations. For example, science will never be able to really know, at least, what a photon is (the magnification process being infinite). Regarding the Creator of this reality (the nature of God etc.), our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them (comparison mentioned in the Bible), but *we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to see God and what He expects from us.* Therefore, those wise enough understand that *God is not bounded by time (not being bounded by what He has created), respectively He is eternal, always existed, which means that He was not created,* but atheists ignore, also, the other fact already mentioned by me about the nature of God that *our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them". Anyway, they have no excuse because we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to understand.*

[@filmeseverin]

The rest can be read into my thread posted 22 hours ago, found easily after sorting the comments.

[@eniggma9353]

Chis is amazing as always but Lane is over the line as Lebowski would say. It's just soo bloody hard to listen to him but Hitch is indeed both entertaining and superior all around.

[@jaylo9421]

An atheist can have charisma but since they are not selling snake oil, it is not a requirement. I still miss Mr Hitchens he was a great writer and thinker

[@hephaestuslakan3774]

And a great debater.

[@justsomeguy4260]

The only argument God believers have when they're told God is fake: " BuT HoW CaN SoMeThiNG CoMe OuT Of NoThiNg" Like bro your brain is too small just because we don't know how universe was made doesn't mean a sky daddy made it

[@onlyme2579]

@@justsomeguy4260 There's the issue right there, you just said it. "Sky Daddy". What? What is that? I don't believe in that, I never have. I believe in God. What is a sky daddy? You're making an argument with a false dichotomy.

[@stztstz1018]

@@onlyme2579 he's just paraphrasing though, you can replace sky daddy with whatever God or deity and it'll be the same. There is no single good reason to believe that there is any sort of God, until proven otherwise. Which hasn't happened so far.

[@onlyme2579]

@@stztstz1018 The same goes for the Theist listening to the arguments of an atheist. There's no evidence for me to believe your position. I will also point out, paraphrasing an incorrect perception, is still incorrect.

[@nunomedeiros8390]

Things in this video, not possible to see in 2023: 1 - Everyone respect eachothers ideas without need to bully one another 2 - Get straight answers like yes or no 3 - putting some jokes on serious conversations actual releaf tension 4 - The audience are in fact listning two diferents ideas and reflecting on them, no matter wish side they are from 5 - The audience also respect silence 6 - conversations with more then 20 words and without "like", hum"or "so" put after every 2 or 3 words

[@KWH616]

debate bros have ruined debates, WLC however is a slippery little worm i this debate.

[@richardgoss4777]

​@KWH616 I don't think that is a fair assessment. *He does concede on certain points. He is arguing for a personal God as manifested in the image of Christ. He is very clear on that. He does put it on Hitchens on the objectivity of morality, something that Hitchens is unable to address with his worldview. This was a good debate but there's better.

[@ivanferguson1574]

Regardless of is wright or wrong,there is a God,and can be proven by me

[@ivanferguson1574]

Also the Gentlemen who did not believe there is a God I under stand his point,and he had a Good one, the christian/believers never proven that there is a God If there is a God why the world is such a terrsble place, and he is 100% right The problem we never start of wright,and no one question our direction,becsuse your Bible says be afraid and Never question God Thats our down foll

[@ImAmirus]

ok lol I have seen them. It is not possible, because you personally didnt witness it. Prime example of argument from personal incredulity.

[@AdamKlownzinger]

“The atheist argues that the existence of God is inconsistent with the evil and suffering in the world; the atheist then is presupposing that there are hidden assumptions for why these things cannot coexist. … A religious person can resolve this issue by introducing a third concept: that there are reasons why God would permit this evil and suffering in the world.” Well the reasons given are always basically that God is mysterious and whatever he says and does is inherently moral because God is morality itself or something. Well then. Sounds incredibly hidden to me lol…while also being incredibly convenient. “God, which I defined as ‘perfect,’ which is defined among other things as absolutely wanting to promote the well-being of his creations as much as possible, hypothetically might have reasons that are completely and always kept beyond human comprehension for why he isn’t and never will actually begin maximizing the well-being of his creations.”

[@djin01]

I was laughing at William Lane the whole time. How could Christopher Hitchens take this debate serious when the other guy is talking such nonsense?

[@citizenghosttown]

As a gentleman, Hitchens typically treated his opponents with respect and assumed they were at least being sincere. But you can see that at 57:15, Hitchens knows he can stop taking Craig seriously.

[@djin01]

@@citizenghosttown yeah, I also noticed that expression, it made me laugh

[@redshift6743]

I think these two men genuinely respected each other; something many people commenting, might consider.

[@Godlimate]

Mr Incognito they both deserve much respect

[@haydenhollingsworth6777]

@@Godlimate Lane Crage really doesnt deserve any respect least of all from Hitchens.

[@Godlimate]

Hayden Hollingsworth I used to think the same also. I disagree with WLC views, however, in the realm of philosophy he is quite knowledgeable in particular with metaphysics/ ontology (the respect deserved is in the credentials). It’s nice to see how people actually think when they take on this kind of position to broaden our perspective, and of course the perspective of Hitchens also.

[@franconero181]

There is a difference between civility and respect. I doubt very much that Hitch respected that windbag of Craig. That guy is a moron, to put it mildly...

[@thomascarroll9556]

Hayden Hollingsworth and he was definitely not respected by Hitchens.

[@desynchonosisdragon9108]

Atheism is a single answer to a single question. Does God exist? There is no evidence to support that he does. You can't prove a negative and the burden of proof lies with those making the claim that he does.

[@pac524]

When scientists discovered a specific code (ACGT) in our DNA, it became clear there had to be a 'mind' in the creation of this code found in humans. Code can only exist if there is a code writer. Evolution cannot be the explanation for the existence of such code which instructs cells to create a living organism, especially one as highly complex as a human being.

[@miguelfonseca1104]

if you pigeonole what counts as "evidence" sure.

[@ronaldrrootiii6040]

​@@miguelfonseca1104what's funny is when the Christian guy says how highly improbable it would be for things to end up this way on their own and he uses all those massive numbers it makes perfect sense. Let's just say that all of space which is unimaginably huge of endless is all those failure numbers and then that one single improbable is us so there you go he even explained it it is probable it's us and then those huge numbers he used as the other failures. I was laughing they say that because it's like a grander version of saying oh that's one out of a million and then you have a million things there and then eventually you find that one. So good keep on running those super high numbers of improbability and we'll just look at the super high numbers of galaxies and stars and planets that go on and on and boom here we are we are the one

[@miguelfonseca1104]

it seems the uniformity of the law of physics refutes this point pretty quickly. its not like each quanta of space has different laws of physics @@ronaldrrootiii6040

[@xgreedxx]

You can prove a negative. Only atheists say you can’t because it’s convenient.

[@AdamKlownzinger]

An asexual person is not somebody who actively opposes sexuality. They simply lack a sexual orientation. Craig is misleading when he says Hitchens is “redefining” atheism. No, he just defined it. And he is not saying that the evidence absolutely shows God is not real, just that it does not show nor prove that he is. And makes compelling arguments that we shouldnt dedicate our lives in service to this being, in part because its too incoherent and contradictory to be real, and too incoherent and contradictory to warrant worship if somehow it is.

[@swampy5841]

The only one who spoke anything worth listening to was mr Hitchens

[@filmeseverin]

Generally, those from such videos, exposed to my clear and undeniable demonstrations but who still want to remain atheists, are ignoring intentionally the simple fact that *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* hoping that this reality is the result of no intelligence, in other words that God does not exist, only to escape the responsibility for their deeds, to not be Judged by God/Jesus after the leaving of this world, but they are in error. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 My simple and undeniable demonstrations can still be found quite easily after sorting the comments.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin WHy do you lie for jesus so much? what created your creator?

[@oasis-rkid640]

Craig: "If humans can't prove it, it is more likely to be God than anything else." This logic simply does not compute.

[@godofthegaps6741]

the classical god of the gaps argument

[@joefoley1480]

thank you Mr Spock

[@jerodfarmer165]

That’s because your not smart enough to understand, it’s okay the world is full of people like you

[@oasis-rkid640]

@@jerodfarmer165 Hey man i'm really trying but it just doesn't make sense. BTW does god command you to insult and try to belittle people on the internet? Seems like a terrible way to spread the good word. Or maybe it's just more proof he doesn't exist. Also it's you're*

[@jakemay637]

@@godofthegaps6741 the God of the apes is Darwin. Worship him.

[@jamesclarke9826]

I'm a Christian but absolutely love both these men. Hitechens may have been an athiest, but in a healthy society asking questions is important. Rip

[@ronaldrrootiii6040]

So when the Christian guy talks about how highly improbable everything is to evolve this way and uses a bunch of massive numbers of improbability he's still saying there is that one chance and when you compare how big space is in every direction to at least what we can comprehend with our mind then we are that one and all those other failed ones. So basically saying it's extremely improbable is just saying that it is probable. Based on the vastness of space saying that is basically saying it's 100% probable out of just a huge huge huge amount of choices. Kind of how winning the Powerball is super improbable but someone does because that many people are trying. Just like that except on a grand scale. Hence the fact that all those other situations are just. It's just that in our little amount of time to evolve and to get smart we feel as if that is a long time based on our perception of time. Really if the first did evolve for billions of years and we evolved for Millions that would still be a short amount of time compared to greater things kind of how a piece of sand is huge to ants but tiny to a mountain time is just relative. We are way too smart for this amount of time we've developed thinking it's been a long time and that we are so important. There could be other intelligent creatures that have come and gone not only here but elsewhere and will continue to do so. Us not understanding things leads us to mystical ideas kind of how lightning and thunder probably used to seem like more than just atmosphere weather that we Now understand I think people just don't like to look at it this way because it makes our life seem meaningless but if you can get over that and learn to just enjoy it while treating others good and maybe having kids and teaching them the same and that's okay. Seems like Wars aren't fought over not believing a mystical belief. So yeah once again Christian apologetics saying it would be one out of one with however many thousands of zeros following it for this to happen natural just remember there is one with that many thousands of zeros out there of planets and stars here we are the one

[@michaelbrickley2443]

Look up Bishop Robert Barrons talk about Hitchens. Very interesting. The Bishop loved Christopher and truly appreciated him and his work

[@davidjjharding]

Good to hear this and I respect your balance

[@andyhanks7105]

​@ronaldrrootiii6040 I'd disagree over the evolutionary time scales you imply. We evolved over approximately 4 billion years rather than millions of years because we are the product of all life that existed from day 1. Contrary to this evolution has no end product so when our star reaches its ability to fry this planet it most certainly won't ve human eyes that witness it it.

[@michaelbrickley2443]

@@andyhanks7105 Jesus is coming

[@AdamKlownzinger]

“The argument that we’re headed towards nothing contradicts Christian teachings and therefore does nothing to move the Christian in his direction” Could that not simply be interpreted as Christianity being incompatible with what we have observed in the universe? What Hitchens argued was a fact; the sun is going at some point to burn and consume all human life. If that scientific fact is rejected, what can Hitchens do to convince him? Edit: thinking now about it I think his point was that heaven promises that we won’t have nothing because we have heaven and heaven is apparently something…well, okay. That sounds an awful lot like “the Bible says so” to me. There’s no evidence this heaven exists whatsoever, so since the original point was that Christianity seems to be arguing against scientific fact, the point still stands. How can one be expected to make a reasonable argument in opposition when the opposition is rejecting reason?

[@filmeseverin]

Only Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity) has said: *_"I am the way, the truth and the life."_* He also said: *_"The sky and the earth won't last forever, but my words will."_* Matthew 24, 35 All the answers are given already (those who sort the comments and read enough from my posts can convince themselves), *atheists being proved wrong already.* They never had/have counterarguments, but just try to fool the new people from the comments section.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin What created your creator? Where did it come from? Is it from nothing? 😂😂😂 Are you a creationist?

[@kapitan19969838]

​@@LGpi314The Creator exists outside of time and space

[@LGpi314]

@@kapitan19969838 How do you know? Can you demonstrate it? Sounds like a special spreading fallacy. LMAO WHat else do you have?

[@kapitan19969838]

@@LGpi314 By logical reasoning. If a Being creates something, he is outside of it. All my life experience validates this observation. Do You disagree?

[@robthedrummer]

Imagine spending your entire life devoted to theology and becomming a doctor in theology all to just find out that it's not real.

[@LGpi314]

“Theology is ignorance with wings.” ― Sam Harris

[@filmeseverin]

@robthedrummer Those who sort the comments and read enough from my posts (both answers and threads, at least / including my threads posted 2 days ago) can see that *I have proved* that this reality has been created by an Intelligence (called God / the Creator) whose nature will never be really comprehended by humans (because of our proved limitations) except through Jesus Christ, the human form of God.

[@robthedrummer]

@@filmeseverin well if it can't be comprehended by a human, how did you figure it out?

[@LGpi314]

@@robthedrummer you are dealing with a Romanian religious troll. I would not waste time to get a reasonable answer.

[@robthedrummer]

@@LGpi314 it's all good, he's dealing with an American Atheist troll....

[@sandystrait3878]

There was and is no man like Hitchens.

[@3rebornxd]

Agreed

[@travisstrickland7270]

Plz he like a institutionalized Drunk uncle full of myths and logic with no foundation.

[@briankenyon1543]

​@@travisstrickland7270myths and logic!!?? Hitchens!!!???🤣🤣🤣😭 Oh... Very... Dear...🤤🤤

[@jayeee2756]

He was an unparalleled wit, raconteur, author and genius. Link me your incisive ramblings.

[@nwokemitchell6194]

Alan Watts was phenomenal too

[@cnholanda]

Nine years after… and still great to watch!

[@kylejantjiesauthor]

Right?

[@Jealod24]

Except the James Webb telescope and recent astronomical observations throwing a wrench in Craig’s entire argument about the exact start of the universe, the Big Bang, etc.. science is a bitch.

[@fieryscorpion]

Dr William Lane Craig threw so many word salads that it started to get annoying.

[@kunaltyagi5130]

@@Jealod24stay away from science

[@kunaltyagi5130]

You can start it by not using anything around you

[@joeschmo8755]

Christians say that Jesus Christ saved them, Christopher Hitchens saved me from religion. I wish I gotten the chance to personally thank him.

[@filmeseverin]

The question is: Why so many were/are opposing to the main advice from Jesus Christ: to strive always for goodness, wisdom, justice... for perfection? *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 Most probably, because just as it is easier to destroy something useful than to make/build something useful, in the same way it is easier to be evil=stupid than to be good=wise.

[@joeschmo8755]

I’d rather be a satanist than a Christian.

[@LGpi314]

@@joeschmo8755 You can't argue with M0R0N filmseverin .

[@filmeseverin]

This short earthly life is a school and exam for our immortal soul, for those who did not listen by the Creator to understand the value of "light" without experiencing the "darkness". This reality has been created intentionally so that freedom to be 100% offered, God wanting to see the *free* choices/deeds to reward accordingly. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 The problem is with those who have used (are using) their freedom for doing evil on purpose. That is why it is not easy to fight continuously with what Satan has done to this world (carnivores, parasites, viruses, bad bacteria... the so called _"weeds"_ in Matthew 13:24-43) and to ourselves ... because *until our physical death we fight with the works of the fallen angels and of their tools, the evil=stupid people, the consequences of evilness = stupidity.*

[@B.S...]

Hitchens argued that reality to the rational scientific observer is a random evolutionary process. According to dogma God creates by force of will not by a process contingent on initial conditions. Hitchens clearly pointed out the absurdity and superstitious ignorance of theistic dogma therefore »» Science and Naturalism is clearly closer to objective truth and Hitchens is easily the winner of the debate.

[@BobDobalena]

Science agrees that the big-bang occurred and time and space came into being. Before then there was nothing, not empty space, nothing. It against natural law to make something out of nothing. This universe literally requires the super natural to exist. Nature didn’t even exist. Even a singe cell is more data in its DNA then 1,000 encyclopedia. The idea that the universe sprang up out of nothingness and then soup made life is so dumb it hurts.

[@B.S...]

@@BobDobalena There is no scientific agreement about the beginning of the universe other than it began in a hot, dense and low entropy state. Classical Big Bang theory has been gone for 40 years. The universe may indeed require certain initial conditions, that is to say that the universe we observe today is the result of initial conditions and evolution. If god has any properties then ethics and morality must be at the very top of the list. If god created a process called evolution, then ask yourself if that process is moral ? The honest answer would be no. Your uneducated opinion of what billions of years of evolution and natural forces can accomplish and your knowledge of theology is in fact utterly incoherent.

[@filmeseverin]

True/proven science is used to gain the trust and after that the fake/unproven science is used to manipulate the superficial people, to keep them away from the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth. The superficial people seem to not realize the building of this reality, with intelligence in each/every step of the process, like in the way an artist is making his drawing (even schoolchildren can understand that every photon, ... atom, ... cell has intelligence into it, *not to mention their functionality together).* Just as billions of cells are needed for us to live this earthly life, in a similar way are required billions of galaxies for the intelligent life to be hosted intentionally to have 100% freedom, like humans on Earth. *Think how wonderful the Creator is, the opposite of a dictator, to create this reality in this way, with 100% freedom. He has told us to live in freedom but to not use freedom as a cover-up for evil.* Unfortunately, Satan, the fallen angels, respectively their tools in this world - the evil=stupid humans - have used (are using) the freedom offered by God to do evil intentionally. However, all will be judged 100% correctly by God/Jesus and all will receive what they deserve.

[@filmeseverin]

This short earthly life is a school and exam for our immortal soul, for those who did not listen by the Creator to understand the value of "light" without experiencing the "darkness". This reality has been created intentionally so that freedom to be 100% offered, God wanting to see the *free* choices/deeds to reward accordingly. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 The problem is with those who have used (are using) their freedom for doing evil on purpose. That is why it is not easy to fight continuously with what Satan has done to this world (carnivores, parasites, viruses, bad bacteria... the so called _"weeds"_ in Matthew 13:24-43) and to ourselves ... because *until our physical death we fight with the works of the fallen angels and of their tools, the evil=stupid people, the consequences of evilness = stupidity.* As a conclusion, here is not Heaven but our chance to prove that we can be allowed into Heaven, to prove that we love perfection and always strive for it, by doing our best to use freedom only for good.

[@gloopdevyoinky9271]

"...not by a process contingent on initial conditions". No well read theologian would say that physical occurances do not occur by a process contingent on initial conditions. There are two types of causes, a primary and secondary cause. A secondary cause is something which is both caused and causes. An example would be your parents who cause you to exist, but the primary cause is God since all functions within his will. So God causes things to exist and causes other causes to occur via secondary causes.

[@zaddyjacquescormery6613]

In Craig’s opening remarks, he starts out saying that the debate is about the existence of god, not about the social impact of religion. Then he goes on to talk about the impact of religion on the morality for society. Not a great start when you begin by contradicting your own argument…

[@johnpelosi4117]

It is entirely in keeping with Craig's general obliviousness in cognition that he cannot ascertain his own argument, which he plainly doesn't deem necessary. Craig is only interested in chewing the cud of his cowlike complacent assumption that he has already won, and that Hitchens is merely blabbing about inconsequential nonsense. WLC is almost sociopath level of cognitive inability.

[@isaper3723]

Yeah not a strong point to make either using the rape argument when rape occurs more within the confines of religious organizations than anywhere else

[@ob4161]

I don't see how Craig contradicted himself there. All he said was that religion's impact on society was not the *topic* of the debate; he never stated that it was *irrelevant* to the topic of the debate.

[@johnpelosi4117]

@@ob4161 There is no point upon which Craig is NOT irrelevant. He addresses NONE of the actual arguments presented by Hitchens. Namely, that Hitchens emphasizes that Craig has no evidence to support any of his supernatural claims, no person has. Craig speaks from the point of view that he Pre-Supposes the Existence of "God", this is both irrelevant and non evidentiary and has no value. It is an unfalsifiable claim, therefore irrelevant to the business of providing what Craig claims is "properly basic".

[@Altair1904]

Where does he do that aside from the Q&A? He was discussing objective moral values as a proof of God existence which is completely different. Get your facts straight

[@akramkhanfir7469]

Regardless of the content of this video, I think we should all salute the quality of the debate !! It was so highly civilized, respectful and organized that I "a third language English speaker" could fully understand and keep up with the argumentation and the logic followed by each of the debaters. I'm from Tunisia, an Arabic country in north Africa, where this kind of debates might never take place, and if it ever does, there won't be that many of an audience to attend it, as the population doesn't really seek to prove or to disprove their belief, and they are just ok with keeping their faith as it is without shaking it with doubt even if that would actually strengthen their religious view. I felt so badly urged to comment on this video, for its value and importance for the freedom of speech, of questioning, criticizing and arguing what is sacred or taboo to others. Thank you BiolaUniversity for publishing this online, so could I and many others around the world benefit of this high quality debate, that we can't host in our countries depriving its people of their right to discuss the matters that society forbids.

[@lbourrou]

Since you say you are Tunisian and that English is your "third language", let me make a bet on what is you "second language": Bienvenue dans le monde de la pensée critique Akram :)

[@akramkhanfir7469]

@@lbourrou Merci haha :)

[@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl]

If it would be the only good thing the Arab world could learn from the "West", than it´s vital for a society to be openly discuss all relevant things humans are "touched" by. I know there are several attempts in societies like yours to do it like here and I hope people go this way everywhere, because it prevents us from totalitarianism in every form. Stay safe and curious, maybe you yourself become the "savior" of your broken society. My thoughts are with you!

[@davewalt1781]

Akram, your English is very good for a 3rd language. And I really appreciate your post. But I wonder, who do you agree with, Hitchens or Craig. I can assure you 100% that Craig has the truth. There is the one true God in heaven who loves us and sent His Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross, to pay the price for our sins. And Christ is coming back again someday to take His children home. May God bless you richly.

[@akramkhanfir7469]

@@davewalt1781 Thanks :) without taking any position, and just considering the fact that both of them are struggling or trying hard to convince, only means that the existence of God isn't really that obvious or undeniable ! It is still under debating and argumentation, and we are not certain. My personal opinion, is that "I don't know" but I won't take religion as a final answer. Religion won't stop my curiosity to know the truth, I will keep looking and I will simply admit my current ignorance based on lack of proof. That's why I appreciate this kind of conversations, because I learn !

[@jopetaldecoa]

Nice one C!

[@El_Bruno7510]

My wife doubles up in pain for a few days every month, but she's ok with it because she knows it only happens because her great, great, great, great, etc, grandmother, when she was a child who didn't really know any better, got tricked into scrumping an apple she wasn't supposed to eat.

[@LGpi314]

It is hilarious. That is the same as Christians saying that sacrificing your own child is moral if god asks. I watched this. "BBC One Debate: Did Man Create God? Pandit Satish Sharma" It was interesting

[@Countryboy071]

An excuse for a dirty old man abusing a young girl, getting her pregnant and saying she's a virgin 😂

[@LGpi314]

​@Countryboy071 if I were in Joseph's place, I definitely would do a dna testing. 😂😂😂

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@LGpi314 Yes, that's the debate I saw recently. I guess we get the same prompts on our YT algorithm!

[@filmeseverin]

The fact is that human ignorance is the main way Satan and the other fallen angels have operated and still operate in this world. God is perfect, keep that in mind. This short earthly life is a school and exam for our immortal soul, for those who did not listen by the Creator to understand the value of "light" without experiencing the "darkness".

[@DanielJaegerFilms]

If only our presidential debates could be like this. Super organized, well planned, mutual respect to both sides and both sides bringing excellent points to the audience for them to make their own decisions. Very well done.

[@B.S...]

@@CosmoPhiloPharmaco Not so fast Doctor Schrodinger, Hitchens brought the only indisputable fact to the debate - 99% of all species have gone extinct. A contradiction of Genesis and therefore a contradiction of omnipotent and omniscient creation. Genesis isn't just pre-scientific ignorance it's legitimate reality to a fundamentalist, which btw Craig is not. Craig is trying to circumvent biblical dogma and suggest (with misquotes and misuse of scientific data) that a good god is consistent with imperfection. Craig's view on the problem of evil is borderline morally corrupt.

[@filmeseverin]

My messages are deleted (right after I post them), as/like a censorship against the truth is happening from time to time.

[@filmeseverin]

As there are billions of cells required for us to be able to live this earthly life, in the same way there are required billions of galaxies for the intelligent life to be created intentionally to have 100% freedom, like humans on Earth (think how wonderful the Creator is, the opposite of a dictator, to create this reality in this way, with 100% freedom). He has told us to live in freedom but to not use freedom as a cover-up for evil. Unfortunately, Satan, the fallen angels, respectively their tools in this reality - the evil=stupid humans - have used (are using) the freedom offered by God to do evil. Most atheists do not know *the Parable of the weeds,* which implies that the fallen angels, ruled by Satan, have altered this world, the DNA... (even the Bible),... making the carnivores, the parasites, the viruses, bad bacteria etc.... all the havoc... all the killings, so that those who do not want to follow God's perfection into their life, to be able to make excuses to not believe the truth. Initially, all insects, animals etc. were feeding only with plants (plants products, such as fruits, nectar, seeds etc.).

[@tomjackson7755]

@@filmeseverin Exactly as I said in my previous message, the "filmeseverin" user is repeatedly doing the same thing: He is spreading lies about me and trolling the same debunked cut and pastes of lies. Regardless of the continuous lying and false accusations, from such deniers who have no argument to support their denial, the truth is only one: filmeseverin is a lying troll. To the readers you will notice how his broken English comes and goes. You will also notice he pretends to be from a European communist country yet posts on an east coast of America schedule. You will also notice that he responds to his own comment and even edits his cut and pastes and changes nothing. He does this so no notification shows up to who he is responding to. You will also notice that this Liar will post multiple posts to get the comment count to end in a 5 or 0 like lying trolls do. This Liar also likes his own comments like a troll. Every thing about this Liar is fake. There is no need to post any more arguments against his lies because it has been done over and over and he just ignores them and posts one of these cut and pastes. The only thing left to do is ask why. So here it is for the more than the hundredth time. Why do you keep posting these lies?

[@tomjackson7755]

@@filmeseverin You forgot to like one of your own comments, lying troll.

[@trime1015]

Remember when universities actually held (at the time) controversial debates without entitled children shouting down a speaker?

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@trime1015]

cool story, but I can be a good person and do all that without believing in god@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363

[@Zlist1994]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363no all praise be to Allah and the great profit Mohamed.

[@CamCos]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Sins are sins exclusively because God says they are and sins, and the Bible totally changes what sins are between the old/new testament. God is so perfect he can't even talk to his sinner creations, so he is going send his son to kill himself for us instead.🤣🤣🤣 Explain why god can't reveal his existence. The Bible says you can't know God, yet your punished eternally for not fearing and loving God. Again, explain why God wants humans to blindly believe.

[@rafaelvargas1011]

😂​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363

[@theironknight597]

Everytime they cut to Hitchens during Craig's opening statement it was like watching Mike Tyson in the locker room before his ring walk 😂

[@filmeseverin]

By ignoring the following two simple facts, which prove the existence of the Creator: *from no intelligence involved no intelligence comes* and *the results of a process prove the intelligence involved into that process;* atheists are too superficial regarding the eternal Intelligence (God/Divinity _"the beginning and the end"_ ) who has created this reality intentionally with 100% freedom to see our free choices to give us what we deserve, after leaving this "school" and "exam" for our immortal soul, for us. God is not bounded by what He has created, but atheists, in their superficiality, do not want to recognize their limitations. For example, science will never be able to really know, at least, what a photon is (the magnification process being infinite). Regarding the Creator of this reality (the nature of God etc.), our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them (comparison mentioned in the Bible), but *we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to see God and what He expects from us.*

[@filmeseverin]

This reality has been created intentionally so that freedom to be 100% offered, God wanting to see the *free* choices/deeds to reward accordingly. The problem is with those who have used (are using) their freedom for doing evil on purpose, Satan with the other fallen angels (who, according to the "Parable of the weeds", have altered this world, the DNA... making the carnivores, the parasites, the viruses, bad bacteria etc.... to sustain the useless suffering) and their tools, the evil=stupid humans, not with the One who has offered freedom.

[@filmeseverin]

Therefore, we live into an altered and ruled world by the fallen angels, *allowed as an exam for our immortal soul (for us) to prove to the Creator how good we really are, how much we love perfection and how much we detest evilness=stupidity,* to prove that we are not following the demons anymore, through our deeds in this short earthly life, which will be judged 100% correctly for each of us. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10

[@DubzCo]

@@filmeseverinI didn’t realise it had this cup analogy in the Bible and I wonder why an animal wasn’t used instead of an inanimate object such as a cup like a worm bug or a reptile of some sort, I wonder if it is because maybe even animals understand there’s a creator, crazy thought I know but who really knows

[@DubzCo]

@@filmeseverinHey hey hey now I wouldn’t be calling ‘stupid’ evil bro and as for good works and deeds to get to heaven I thought it was a choice to believe in Jesus or Yahshua is the messiah who was crucified for our sin you are talking something like Islam there man

[@MrSherod1]

I’m really have to say I’m starting to despise religion. This guy keeps say “atheism is not true”. That shows he has no idea what he’s saying.

[@LGpi314]

That is what apologists do. LMAO.

[@justinabajian1087]

No, I used to be a Christian apologist myself and studied Craig a lot. He definitely knows what he’s talking about. He knows very well you don’t have to try and prove the non existence of all sorts of things. It’s a sophist trick.

[@chowdhurylinianazmi5615]

Hats off to the audience, organizers and participants of debate! They differ in their opinions wildly but they were so nice in presenting their differences... hope that could be the case for the rest of the world one day!

[@enaremco]

Yes, we can only hope that in the future we will become as One World.

[@russ8156]

R u Muslim?

[@Bdots44]

@David Mutchler stfu simp

[@authorbhattacharjee4957]

@David Mutchler You thirsty as f bruh

[@jonlovett9857]

@@enaremco well said

[@XcaliburReborn]

“We’re a Christian establishment and wanted to debate whether it’s reasonable to believe in god.” If nothing else, I respect you for inviting the equivalent of an atheist howitzer against your standard issue rifle apologist. Shows some real balls

[@sak415]

Curious. I hear argument on argument from Craig, but they are never refuted nor is there given an argument for the antithesis.

[@wizit1993]

@@sak415 Craig didn't make any arguments, he made unsubstantiated claims. Hitchens can't refute an un-refutable claim. If I told you I had an invisible $2 bill in my pocket and told you to refute it, you'd never be able to. I could just say that $2 bills exist, while true, does nothing to substantiate the claim that a piece of money can be invisible.

[@thehistory5401]

Ignorant with balls

[@less2worryabout]

@@sak415 what "argument" did you hear from Craig?

[@sak415]

@@less2worryabout the cosmological argument for instance. To refute it you need to show that one of the premises is wrong. Or that the conclusion does not logically follow from the premises. An emotional response wont do.

[@_.LZ._]

Craig is wrong, the big bang doesn't talk about the universe coming out of nothing, the big bang refers to how the universe expanded from a tiny point to what it is today, it has no say on whether the universe came out of nothing, existed forever at that small point before expanding etc.

[@filmeseverin]

According to my following simple and undeniable demonstration, there should be no more atheists. Because of the following two simple facts: - *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes* - *the results of a process prove the intelligence involved into that process* the existence of the Creator of this reality (God/Divinity) *is proved* by the existence of this reality with intelligence into it. That is why atheists renounce to elementary logic and to simple rationality intentionally when they believe that this reality has always existed without any intelligence involved. *God is not bounded by what He has created,* but atheists, in their superficiality, do not want to recognize their limitations. For example, science will never be able to really know, at least, what a photon is (the magnification process being infinite). Regarding the Creator of this reality (the nature of God etc.), our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them (comparison mentioned in the Bible), but *we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to see God and what He expects from us.* The rest can be read in my thread posted 4 days ago, still easy to be found after sorting the comments.

[@LGpi314]

​@@filmeseverin bla bla bla. Why do you still lie so much for jesus? Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool. Mark Twain

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin "from no intelligence involved no intelligence comes" That is what your mother says about you. I'm your Satan. Come and party with me

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@filmeseverin]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 You should correct your messages to not deceive the readers that all humans have done all the sins you enumerate with a comma between them, instead of an "or" between them. Indeed, *all humans must repent for their sins and follow Jesus Christ.* You should give ALL the details from the visions received, but try to not ignore the goodness of the people who lived a life closer to the one of a saint. We are not perfect but we can strive for perfection, improving ourselves continuously, to not sin by doing our best to not do evil in every situation, to become as saint as we can. This daily effort, in all our deeds, is appreciated by Divinity, as we have been told: _"The saint ones to become more saint."_ *In this short earthly life humans have to learn their lesson: to use freedom only for good, to strive always for perfection.* God appreciates humans who always strive for perfection, as Jesus has said: *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this.

[@yesihavebedbugs2786]

If nothing is infinite. Does that not also include god? Who was gods dad? Where was god before there was a universe? Outside the universe? So someplace that must have also had a start right?

[@SubtitledArabicSongs]

the response to that is usually that god exists outside of time space different rules etc etc

[@filmeseverin]

The answers are given already into my thread posted about 10 hours ago.

[@yesihavebedbugs2786]

@@filmeseverin there are no answers with evidence. That is why they can get away with it all. Never need any proof.

[@yesihavebedbugs2786]

@SubtitledArabicSongs so what made that place outside time and space? Because outside space is just other space. Like here on earth we are inner space. If we leave orbit, you are in outer space. Who made god? Who made the outside space he is in currently?

[@filmeseverin]

As anyone can see in my thread, after sorting the comments, I proved God's existence by using only elementary logic, because *from no intelligence involved no intelligence comes,* and those wise enough understand that *God is not bounded by time (not being bounded by what He has created), respectively He is eternal, always existed, which means that He was not created,* but atheists ignore, also, the other fact already mentioned by me there, about the nature of God that *our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them". Anyway, unbelievers have no excuse because we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to understand.*

[@kcdad2806]

Obedience is not morality. Choosing "good" behavior is morality.

[@GGGBC]

Ha? :))) That sounds dangerous!!!

[@Sralaineo-]

What is good and what is Baddddd...??

[@kcdad2806]

@@Sralaineo- That really is the question isn't it? Sociologically speaking, good is that which benefits the community as a whole. In Dungeons and Dragons, good is what provides the mot benefit to the party. In Religion, good is whatever some man says some old book says will make his god happy. In Politics, good is whatever gets you reelected. In most cases, BAD is what benefits the individual at the expense of the community. (in narcissistic schema like politics and religion, bad is that which benefits SOMEONE ELSE)

[@EvanBartholomew]

Everyone believes their own behavior to be “good.” Even Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Bin Laden, etc believed that they were doing good. Since they all chose what they believed to be “good” behavior, would you say their actions were moral?

[@kcdad2806]

@@EvanBartholomew To them, obviously. However, they would be wrong because Morals are determined by society. They are culturally constructed. You are using the word "good" in a perfectly meaningless way.

[@rubenb8653]

religious debates: organised by christians, super popular with atheists :p

[@2002THEBOY]

lol christian love debate

[@avagantamos2853]

@Charles George How is debating foolish? Maybe if you think there's no way someone can be convinced.

[@avagantamos2853]

@Charles George That seems like a very basic view, seeing that many atheists come from theistic backgrounds and claim to have felt the presence of god before

[@Erik-lq4eo]

@Charles George what do you mean by both contain truth? and what experience did you have? No matter what it is, what do you think about all the people who had experiences of other religions? or stuff like aliens? how can your experience confirm there is a god when perception is flawed and the human mind is incredibly vulnerable to delusions?

[@nicktigert9416]

@Charles George you said it brother! You can only understand through your own experience, and you existing is an experience whether you accept it or not and one that doesn’t lack intelligent design. No chicken before the egg 🖖🏼

[@B.S...]

Why would god, who is omnipotent, need to tune anything ? Dogma claims god creates from nothing, (ex nihilo)… No process required ! Why would god therefore require a process after creation? According to dogma god’s being and therefore his will is non-contingent on any cause, thus the premise of fine tuning contradicts theological truth.

[@filmeseverin]

Atheists ignore the importance of freedom, besides denying God's perfection. This short earthly life is a school and exam for our immortal soul, for those who did not listen by the Creator to understand the value of "light" without experiencing the "darkness". This reality has been created intentionally so that freedom to be 100% offered, God wanting to see the *free* choices/deeds to reward accordingly. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 The problem is with those who have used (are using) their freedom for doing evil on purpose. That is why it is not easy to fight continuously with what Satan has done to this world (carnivores, parasites, viruses, bad bacteria... the so called _"weeds"_ in Matthew 13:24-43) and to ourselves ... because *until our physical death we fight with the works of the fallen angels and of their tools, the evil=stupid people, the consequences of evilness = stupidity.*

[@BobDobalena]

Why would you think you would understand anything about how to create a universe? Humans cannot create life from non-life, we are not Gods.

[@downshift4life]

William Lame Craig doesn't have the intellectual honesty to admit that his "arguments" are Lame. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing, tickling ears of the gullible.

[@filmeseverin]

Mr. William Lame Craig is not perfect (none of us is) but he is on the side of the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth. By the way, those who sort the comments and read enough from my posts (both answers and threads; for example, my thread posted 21 hours ago) can see that *I have proved* that this reality has been created by an Intelligence (called God / the Creator) whose nature will never be really comprehended by humans (because of our proved limitations) except through Jesus Christ, the human form of God.

[@LGpi314]

@@filmeseverin Bla bla bla Isaiah 45:7-I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. If your god exists then it created you evil to make itself look cool. I was looking for Krishna and AIIah. Are they partying with your jesus. I can't find any of those 3. Since you have a direct line why don't you ask. Dr. Price is correct. The existence of Christ is a myth. You should listen to Bible scholars Dr. Richard C. Miller PhD, Dr. Kipp Davis Ph.D., and Dr. Dennis R. MacDonald. on their discoveries about Christianity while studying other religions. It seems more and more that Christianity is fake and Christians are just a bunch of thieves.

[@iqgustavo]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🎵 Welcome to Biola University, hosting a debate on God's existence. 01:15 👋 Distinguished guests, students initiated the debate with acclaimed leaders William Lane Craig and Christopher Hitchens. 03:34 🎓 Biola's Master of Arts in Christian Apologetics is highlighted as a degree program. 06:04 📚 Featured books by Hitchens and Craig are available for signing; DVDs and CDs of debates and lectures are also promoted. 08:35 🏀 Theists and atheists gather for a debate moderated by Hugh Hewitt. 13:19 🎙️ William Lane Craig begins with arguments for theism, starting with the cosmological argument. 19:05 🌌 Craig presents the teleological argument, highlighting the fine-tuning of the universe. 25:24 🧐 Craig introduces the moral argument, asserting the connection between God's existence and objective moral values. 26:20 🤨 Objective morality debate: Craig argues that atheistic view lacks objective moral values; Hitchens contends moral values are innate and evolved. 27:48 🙌 Resurrection of Jesus: Craig presents historical case for Jesus' resurrection; Hitchens challenges need for divine explanation. 31:08 🤔 Immediate experience of God: Craig argues for direct experience of God as a basis for belief; Hitchens emphasizes skepticism and doubt. 35:48 🧐 Presuppositionalism vs. evidentialism: Hitchens critiques the distinction between presuppositionalists and evidentialists; questions the evidentiary basis of religious claims. 46:13 😇 Faith over evidence: Craig asserts primacy of faith over evidence based on the Holy Spirit's witness; Hitchens challenges this prioritization. 50:19 🌌 Physicists are uncertain about the origins of the universe, viewing it from an unimaginable distance in both space and time. 51:16 🌀 Challenges to the assumption of a designing god include the question of pre-existing material, infinite regress, and the existence of destruction and nothingness in the universe. 54:32 🤝 The existence of atheism isn't strongly disputed; Hitchens emphasizes the lack of need for special terms for disbelief in other mythical beings. 57:54 🕊️ The naturalist's adherence to evolution might be dogmatic due to the absence of intelligent design in their worldview. 01:00:15 🪄 Theism and deism are distinct; Dr. Craig's arguments build a cumulative case for Christian theism based on deductive reasoning. 01:04:56 🌍 Atheism's central assertion is that no evidence supports a supernatural realm; Hitchens criticizes the inconsistency of creation timing and widespread suffering. 01:06:25 🧬 The debate revolves around the question of whether belief in God is warranted based on evidence, immediate experience, or psychological grounds. 01:13:42 🧐 Christopher Hitchens challenges believers to name an ethical action/statement they could make that he couldn't. He points out that no advantage arises from divine sanction in morality. 01:14:41 😬 Hitchens highlights the negative aspects of religion, referencing genital mutilation, suicide bombings, genocidal injunctions in the Old Testament, and asserts that morality can't be derived from the supernatural. 01:15:08 🤝 Hitchens discusses the Golden Rule's limitations due to subjective interpretation, and emphasizes that morality arises from shared human empathy and societal evolution rather than religious origins. 01:16:36 💭 Hitchens debates free will and its connection to religion, discussing different perspectives, including Calvinism and Islam, and asserts that the wish for unfreedom is inherent in religion. 01:19:16 🤔 Craig questions Hitchens about his atheistic beliefs, distinguishing different forms of non-theism and asking whether he affirms God's non-existence or simply withholds belief. 01:20:44 🧐 Hitchens clarifies his view on atheism and discusses his preference for non-belief, expressing agnosticism as evasive and stating that he finds arguments for God unconvincing. 01:24:11 🤯 Craig discusses the concept of miracles and exorcisms attributed to Jesus, illustrating divine authority and pointing out the radical nature of Jesus' claims. 01:27:42 😇 Hitchens questions Craig about the legitimacy of miracles and resurrection, and the evidence required for claims of extraordinary events in religious narratives. 01:30:38 🙌 Craig acknowledges the possibility of false religious preaching, Hitchens highlights the potential for wickedness associated with preaching false religions, and the debate shifts towards denominational differences within Christianity. 01:32:55 🕊️ Craig concludes that there have been no compelling reasons presented to affirm atheism and asserts that positive atheism lacks evidence. 01:33:26 😇 William Lane Craig discusses how God prepared humanity for the advent of Christ, and how those who lived before Christ were covered by his atoning sacrifice, judged based on their response to general revelation. 01:35:20 🌌 Craig presents the cosmological and teleological arguments for God's existence, emphasizing that these arguments provide grounds to believe in a personal creator and intelligent designer of the universe. 01:35:48 🧩 The moral argument is discussed, with Craig asserting that atheism lacks a foundation for objective moral values, while theism provides a transcendent basis for such values. 01:38:41 🙏 Craig explains N.T. Wright's argument about the resurrection of Jesus, highlighting that the origin of the disciples' belief in a risen Messiah demands explanation, and the empty tomb and post-mortem appearances of Jesus provide a compelling case for the resurrection. 01:40:11 🤔 Christopher Hitchens counters by suggesting that religious beliefs are man-made and contradictory, referencing instances where religion supported harmful ideologies, and emphasizing the need for secular ethics and critical thinking. 01:43:17 🕊️ Hitchens challenges the assertion that unbelief leads to wickedness and that moral values come solely from religion, arguing that moral values can be understood without religious doctrine. 01:48:49 💡 Craig concludes by summarizing his arguments, asserting that atheism is a worldview that lacks evidential support, while theism offers explanations for cosmology, morality, and the resurrection of Jesus, inviting Hitchens and the audience to consider Christianity. 01:56:30 😄 Dr. Craig discusses the positive impact of religious guidelines on sexual expression, stating that religious people have more satisfying sexual lives. 01:56:59 🤔 Hitchens challenges religious beliefs about homosexuality and questions the contradiction between claiming homosexuality is against God's law while some are born homosexual. 01:58:00 ⚖️ A student questions Hitchens about blaming religion for violence when the creation of nuclear bombs by physicists caused massive destruction, leading to a discussion on the difference between physics and ideology. 01:59:11 😈 Hitchens argues that specific religious injunctions, like circumcision, are harmful, while Dr. Craig suggests that such practices might not accurately reflect the essence of faith. 02:00:41 🌍 A debate on whether atheists or religious individuals, like Marxists or Christians, have caused more harm in history, with Dr. Craig emphasizing the focus on the truth of worldviews rather than their societal impact. 02:02:08 🧐 Hitchens challenges the legitimacy of biblical commandments and actions, criticizing harmful religious behaviors that stem from perceived divine instructions. 02:03:35 🌟 A student raises the question of life's purpose for atheists and theists, leading to discussions about meaningful living, humanism, and the role of religious beliefs. 02:06:36 🔑 Dr. Craig asserts that without God, life lacks objective meaning, while Hitchens argues that humanism can provide meaningful purpose and positive motives. 02:08:06 💔 A debate about the existence of God's intervention in suffering and the problem of evil, where Dr. Craig defends the compatibility of God's existence with suffering. 02:18:03 😢 Dr. Craig acknowledges that the emotional problem of evil often stems from an aversion to a God who permits suffering. 02:18:32 🙏 The suffering of Jesus Christ on the cross provides a perspective on human suffering and evil, offering courage and strength to endure it. 02:19:25 🤔 Christian theism can provide understanding of suffering and evil in the world, giving purpose and hope through Christ's sacrifice. 02:20:23 ❓ Addressing theodicy, the challenge of suffering, Hitchens questions the validity of believing in a deity amidst intense human suffering. 02:21:56 🌍 Debates like this arise due to the rise of theocratic challenges and the need to counter the spread of harmful religious ideologies. 02:22:57 💡 The emergence of debates reflects a challenge to the modernity's secular worldview, questioning its consequences and seeking a renaissance of Christian thinking. 02:25:38 ✅ Good societies allow debates; confident faith welcomes them; accomplished scholars make them engaging and productive. 02:26:18 📚 Christopher Hitchens recommends N.T. Wright's books; book signing follows the event. 02:27:26 👋 The event concludes with acknowledgments and thanks to the participants and the university.

[@joshmelendez3086]

thanks

[@Plexuro]

Thank you!

[@LGpi314]

Is that chatGPT generated?

[@randominternetguy3537]

​@@LGpi314 nah bro.

[@pleasedontkillme2854]

Best comment here (I love you for this)

[@JPxKillz]

Debate like this in university now is so rare.

[@RealmDesigner]

Actually it's not. That's just a silly narrative pushed by online click-bait merchants.

[@shaanandalkar]

You sound senile.

[@sandieovajness8056]

Actually it is. They are arguing over genitals now.

[@user-ci7vu7eo9w]

​@@sandieovajness8056😂😂 true

[@B.S...]

If life required a specially designed Universe with unique initial conditions then the creator would have no choice. Therefore he would have no freewill.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@Budth3spud]

I struggle listening to Craig's opening as he discusses the physics and mathematics of things he does not understand and uses them as "evidence" of an intelligent creator. He talks about the infinite and it's lack of existence in reality, or the inability to subtract infinity from infinity. We deal with infinity and sets of infinity all the time in Physics and Mathematics (Irrational numbers as an example). As a Physicist, we do not argue that there was an infinite or eternal past whatsoever. There is an inherent bond between the physical space in which we live and the experience of time, hence the term Spacetime. Spacetime begins at the moment of the Big Bang as he said yes. It is difficult to conceptualize because we are slightly less stupid than other apes and we are poorly equipped to tackle such difficult problems. Out of nothing, nothing comes as he refers - yet we can demonstrate mathematically that the Big Bang and the Universe itself can arise from zero energy (nothing) which does not require a prime mover. Quantum fluctuations lead to many outcomes our ape brains struggle to grasp, but we shouldn't make the leap to a divine origin simply to explain that which we have yet to develop an understanding of. It may be that we will never be able to fully comprehend the totality of the Laws of Physics, but that is a fault of our own intelligence or inability to probe the Universe at the levels required to unravel the mysteries that intrigue us - not evidence that there is a divine intelligence in the world.

[@LGpi314]

"from zero energy (nothing)" I would only add that singularity is not "nothing" and we just simply do not know what was there before. This is why I say that WLC commits many fallacies and he knows about it.

[@Budth3spud]

@@LGpi314 That’s very fair, I should have been more specific. Everything we see emerged from a singularity where our laws of physics meet a point beyond which they do not currently operate. I should have specified that such a singularity can be a byproduct of a 0 energy state. Maybe that’s a better way of phrasing it

[@LGpi314]

@@Budth3spud I agree. We decided to start the time count from that point in time. We had to start somewhere. Who knows what the future will bring. lol

[@jimmydejulian7033]

I think nobody could understand the why and how of the universe, even if we live a thousand years! God had already said that His ways are not our ways, neither His thoughts are our thoughts. Man can only conjecture and estimate all the phenomena that they observed, but i believe they cannot still fully comprehend the vastness and mystery of the universe. If God said that, does that mean that we should be athiest as we cannot understand His ways and thoughts?

[@LGpi314]

@jimmydejulian7033 what is this nonsense? Where is the evidence of your god?

[@StrokeMyLovePump]

You can see the contempt toward Hitch on the faces of the creationists. That speaks for itself about how they really feel about anyone who has an argument to be made about the ridiculousness of their belief system. Having a PhD. in theology and apologetics is absolutely absurd. You might as well have a wishlist framed on your wall! 😂😂😂

[@filmeseverin]

Those who sort the comments and read enough from my posts (both answers and threads) can see that *I have proved* that this reality has been created by an Intelligence (called God / the Creator) whose nature will never be really comprehended by humans (because of our proved limitations) except through Jesus Christ, the human form of God. Unfortunately, those who do not want to renounce to all their bad addictions and to love / respect / care for the others as they love / respect / care for themselves, to strive always for goodness, wisdom, justice... for perfection, will always fight against the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth. I wish only well to everyone and as much wisdom as possible for everyone! To be saved!

[@StrokeMyLovePump]

@filmeseverin People such as yourself waste your entire lives with the fallacy of a creator, and the lack of being able to create one's own existence. 🤡

[@filmeseverin]

Unfortunately, those too deceived will not read the messages that prove their errors, just to keep their deceiving. Only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations. Again, all the best to all!

[@StrokeMyLovePump]

@filmeseverin You can't possibly think that there's a shred of logic in anything at all, which pertains to religion. That's the biggest problem with you people. You don't know how to think for yourselves.

[@filmeseverin]

The entire evolution of the Universe has nothing against the truth about/from God/Jesus (many parts from the Bible being told metaphorically, not literally, at those times people not having enough knowledge scientifically, but now we can fully understand the metaphors used). The dust from which Adam and Eve have been created is representing their material bodies (parts of this material world), God giving spirit to those material bodies. Eve made from Adam's rib is referring to the X chromosome from the XY. Therefore, Adam and Eve are representing the first hominids species chosen by God to place *the immortal spirits* (cast out from Heaven) and that is why Abel killed by Cain are representing the Neanderthals (Abel) extinct by the Homo Sapiens (Cain). People from many thousands of years ago, when Genesis was written, could not understand exactly (scientifically) how God has created everything, including their ancestors.

[@godzillian3540]

"Of course you have free will, the boss insists upon it!" Hilarious

[@filmeseverin]

Freedom (respectively what we are doing with it; to not do evil, to not cause useless suffering...) is the most important thing for the Creator, because He is not a dictator, but the opposite. He has given us 100% freedom to choose: or to follow just our instincts (altered through the DNA changes done by the fallen angels), being stupid=evil because of the bad addictions etc. (as Satan wants to gain our immortal spirits in Hell), or to strive always to do good in any situation, to not cause useless suffering, to keep us as holly as we can by following His wisdom, received through the true prophets and mainly through Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity), then perpetuated over generations through proper education from thousands of years ago. Humans did not create this reality (this planet, this Universe...), we are just guests here. Our short lives here are mainly a kind of school for our immortal spirit. We have to do our best to sin no more, to never cause useless suffering to others and to ourselves, in order to "pass the final exam", to deserve Heaven. *_"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."_*

[@jiannirivas7175]

@@filmeseverin Is Gods will always carried out?

[@filmeseverin]

@“Jianni Rivas“ Try to read entirely and carefully ALL my messages posted on this video, if you are really interested about the truth. Here, in this earthly life, God has offered us 100% freedom but He has told us to not use it as a cover-up for evil. Unfortunately, as the fallen angels did/do, many stupid=evil humans don't do God's will. However, all will be judged 100% correctly to receive what we deserve according with how much good and how much evil we have done while living in the body, after God/Jesus will forgive what can be forgiven.

[@stuartmiller7419]

@@filmeseverin Freedom to make someone else's choice, on pain of never-ending torture. Religion takes away reason, logic and humanity and you're a great example.

[@filmeseverin]

@@stuartmiller7419 The Creator of this reality has told us: _"Woe to those who call good evil and evil good"_ Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity) has advised humans to love (respect / care for) each other, as they love (respect / care for) themselves. Therefore, without true belief in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen: - so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War); - the billions of poor people at the limit of subsistence versus the wealthiest (multi-billionaires in dollars, euros, etc. with the vices of money / fortune) and those millions too rich people (also with the vice of money / wealth), owning together so many trillions of dollars, euro ... undeserved money, of course, wasted on unnecessary luxury and / or just kept through banks, instead of being used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, financing of useful inventions, recycling, etc. - so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction; - sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general.

[@commenterperson4481]

_1:18:58__ "We now enter the period of cross examination, which ... allows the questioner to pose, and the answerer only to answer and not repeat the question or to dodge."_ If only all TV interviews would adhere to this basic format.

[@LGpi314]

I have been thinking about moving outside of time and space, where I am not bound by natural laws, but I have heard the crime rate- especially genocide - is quite high, plus I don't know how I would make the commute.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@LGpi314]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Why did god lie that Adam and Eve would die if they ate from the Tree of Knowledge? Why does god not want humans to have knowledge? Is it because when humans become knowledgeable they will know that there is no god. LMAO How many horrible things you have done in your life that you need that much forgiveness. You believe in a killer god. During the Noah's Ark episode, not only did God kill all the human beings, but all the animals that lived on land too, except for the two on the Ark. So, why was that? What did God have for the animals? They had no original sin, considering that they had not eaten from the tree of Good/Evil when Yahweh told them not to, they couldn't be punished for not believing in Yahweh, simply because animals don't seem to need religion in their lives. (Have you ever heard of a penguin praying? No, the idea seems silly.) So, why did your God decide that he needed to murder all the animals as well as the humans? Why would you believe in this god?

[@LGpi314]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Your low-self-esteem showing too much. When you self-upvote that means you are lying to yourself. I thought lying was a sin. LMAO "Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God)" I will see you in Muslims HEII

[@LGpi314]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 "Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead.' Why do you lie for jesus? Dr. Price is correct. The existence of Christ is a myth. You should listen to Bible scholars Dr. Richard C. Miller PhD, Dr. Kipp Davis Ph.D., and Dr. Dennis R. MacDonald. on their discoveries about Christianity while studying other religions. It seems more and more that Christianity is fake and Christians are just a bunch of thieves.

[@BobbyBigallo]

I imagine Mr. Craig's wife in the audience, lip-syncing along to his prepared speech. 🤣

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@filmeseverin]

*_"For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorance of foolish men. Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God."_* 1 Peter 2,15 - 16 That is why we have to be servants/lovers of perfection (100% goodness, wisdom, justice...). As Jesus Christ has said: *_"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"_* Matthew 7, 21-23 This short earthly life is a school and exam of our immortal souls. This reality has been created intentionally so that freedom to be 100% offered, God wanting to see the *free* choices/deeds to reward accordingly. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10

[@gabrielmosier4783]

No​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363

[@jh7589]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363proof? Of course not

[@davidstaffell]

It's awful, right ?

[@jethro6936]

I can’t quantify how much I miss Christopher these days. :)

[@davewalt1781]

I miss him too, just like the bubonic plague.

[@chairmanmeow3693]

I can

[@2633babe]

God committed adultery by impregnating Mary bear Jesus Christ.?

[@davewalt1781]

@@2633babe God did not have sex with Mary. She was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. And I'd be careful blaspheming the one true God in heaven. God is love but there is also the wrath of God.

[@screwdapig]

dave Walt lol

[@leftalonetalking991]

"It seam to me you redefine Atheism to mean a sort of A-theism" Hitchens - "That's what it means"

[@michaelwatts1445]

1:19:30 btw

[@Gustavo-so7zk]

Left Alone Talking Except for the fact that Hitchens completely dodges the question of whether he is an atheist or not. Throughout the entire debate he argues in a completely agnostic way as opposed to addressing Craig’s arguments. It’s easy to pick out catchy quotes like that one, but Hitchens was outclassed here.

[@SomeoneElse-]

@@Gustavo-so7zk Craig doesn't even know the correct definition of atheism but somehow he "outclassed" Hitchens. Ok.

[@citizenghosttown]

@@Gustavo-so7zk Hitchens does not dodge the question of whether he's an atheist. He's tackles it head on and, most importantly, explains what he means by atheist. Craig, on the other hand, is just playing games.

[@Gustavo-so7zk]

Appolo Hitchens thinks atheism is agnosticism, and it seems like you do too. The way these debates are structured the burden of proof is also on the atheist to prove the natural universe is better explained without a God, or to disprove God.

[@vincentzevecke4578]

William Lane do not know theoretical physics. He should not have used this in cosmological argument

[@filmeseverin]

Regarding the manipulation through fake science, anyone can read online the Scientific American article titled: "Is Lawrence Krauss a Physicist, or Just a Bad Philosopher?" (about his book: "A Universe from nothing") I mention here just few quotations: "He [Lawrence Krauss] is presenting untested speculative theories of how things came into existence out of a pre-existing complex of entities, including variational principles, quantum field theory, specific symmetry groups, a bubbling vacuum, all the components of the standard model of particle physics, and so on. He does not explain in what way these entities could have pre-existed the coming into being of the universe, why they should have existed at all, or why they should have had the form they did. And he gives no experimental or observational process whereby we could test these vivid speculations of the supposed universe-generation mechanism. How indeed can you test what existed before the universe existed? You can’t." *Horgan:* Larry, I'll always be grateful to you for helping bring me up to speed on modern cosmology 22 years ago when I was researching an article for Scientific American. And what's disappointing is that, apart from the discovery of the acceleration of the cosmic expansion, which was certainly a big surprise, nothing has really changed since then. You and/or your popularizing colleagues--Hawking, Greene, Kaku, Susskind--are still marketing various unsubstantiated versions of inflation, multiverse theories, string theory, vacuum energy, anthropic principle, etc. What's ironic is that, although you don't have any more evidence for these speculations, your marketing of them has become more aggressive... and yet you accuse ME of hype. *Krauss:* John… first, I didn't make any definitive claims.. and I get offended when people claim I make such.. second I tried to indicate how much has changed in the last 22 years.. that is the purpose of the book.. things are dramatically different than they were then, and I went through a very careful analysis to describe these changes..... the analysis of fluctuations in the CMB, the discovery that the universe is flat.. these are REAL empirical discoveries that both impact upon and add credence to many of our ideas. *Horgan:* Larry, so you're saying that you're not claiming to have answered the question posed by your book's title? You're just tossing some ideas around, and you don't expect anyone to take them too seriously? OK, that's a useful clarification. It also means that things have not progressed in the last 22 years, in spite of what you just asserted. I think you better tell Dawkins, before he embarrasses himself further.

[@vincentv.9729]

as Hitchens noted, religion have to evolved with sciences of they are doomed. For 2000 years faith and god were the easiest ways to explain life and nature, now science explains much more than religion ever have.

[@filmeseverin]

The superficial ones do not think enough to realize *the simple fact that from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* the entire process until nowadays proving the existence of God because *the results of a process prove the intelligence involved into that process* (even schoolchildren can understand that every photon, ... atom, ... cell has intelligence into it, *not to mention their functionality together).* They ignore the intelligence put from the beginning. For example, the intelligence mentioned includes the exact value of the speed of light matching the manifestation of what we call "gravity", working together since the primordial conditions to form in the end this reality, which hosts intelligent life that is able to feel / understand / admire / enjoy / respect / love the Creator, especially through His human form, Jesus Christ.

[@filmeseverin]

Most atheists (the unbelievers of the truth in general) do not know enough science to realize its permanent limitations. For example, science will never be able to really know, at least, what a photon is (the magnification process being infinite). *Regarding the nature of God etc., our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them (comparison mentioned in the Bible), but we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to see God and what He expects from us.* Therefore, those wise enough understand that *God is not bounded by time (not being bounded by what He has created), respectively He is eternal, always existed, which means that He was not created,* but atheists ignore, also, the other fact already mentioned by me about the nature of God that *our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them". Anyway, they have no excuse because we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to understand.*

[@filmeseverin]

A single photon is like a miniature Universe because the magnification process is infinite (it cannot be stopped). For example: 1/2 > 1/3 > 1/4 > ... 1/n > 1/(n+1)>... 1/infinite proves that we can go infinitely to smaller numbers greater than zero, which in physics means that we can go infinitely to smaller things, in other words *science will never be able to really know from what this reality is made.* No matter how small a particle is, the system of reference can be decreased to its level of size and see that it is made from smaller things, and so on (this is the infinite involved). In other words, *anything is made from something smaller and also it is included in something bigger.* In addition, all the unbelievers of the proven truths, should not ignore the facts presented in (close to) the end of the video titled: *"Quantum Fields: The Real Building Blocks of the Universe - with David Tong",* which is available on KZbin, to realize that I am right in all my affirmations. The entire evolution of the Universe has nothing against the truth about/from God/Jesus (many parts from the Bible being told metaphorically, not literally, at those times people not having enough knowledge scientifically, but now we can fully understand the metaphors used). For example, the dust from which Adam and Eve have been created is representing their material bodies (parts of this material world), God giving spirit to those material bodies. Eve made from Adam's rib is referring to the X chromosome from the XY. Therefore, Adam and Eve are representing the first hominids species chosen by God to place *the immortal spirits* (cast out from Heaven) and that is why Abel killed by Cain are representing the Neanderthals (Abel) extinct by the Homo Sapiens (Cain). People from many thousands of years ago, when Genesis was written, could not understand exactly (scientifically) how God has created everything, including their ancestors.

[@GregQchi]

It's hilarious listening again to WLC's continuous misrepresentation of atheism - smoke and mirrors to try to distract from the elegant and inalienable position that atheism represents, because he knows he can't tackle that argument.

[@filmeseverin]

In brief, the Creator of this world (God/Divinity) exists because this reality, with us into it, is not the result of nothing, or the result of no intelligence, because *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes.* That is why atheists renounce to elementary logic and to simple rationality intentionally when they believe that this reality has always existed without any intelligence involved.

[@filmeseverin]

*God is not bounded by what He has created,* but atheists, in their superficiality, do not want to recognize their limitations. For example, science will never be able to really know, at least, what a photon is (the magnification process being infinite). Regarding the Creator of this reality (the nature of God etc.), our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them (comparison mentioned in the Bible), but *we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to see God and what He expects from us.*

[@filmeseverin]

Therefore, those wise enough understand that *God is not bounded by time (not being bounded by what He has created), respectively He is eternal, always existed, which means that He was not created,* but atheists ignore, also, the other fact already mentioned by me about the nature of God that *our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them". Anyway, they have no excuse because we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to understand.*

[@GregQchi]

@@filmeseverin nothing more than your naive imaginings

[@GregQchi]

@@filmeseverin we can just cut out the god character and say the universe has always existed.

[@nodelayfordays8083]

Knowing now that Hitchens was diagnosed with cancer in 2010 and this was occurring in 09 I can't help but notice moments where he seems a bit out of it in body language and yet he still gives a well articulated and thought out debate. You will be greatly missed.

[@helengunter378]

I miss the Hitch enormously, as a fellow atheist

[@cavitenoblackpill9720]

As a Christian he will be missed. May he rest in peace

[@tylerjhunter]

he was probably just drunk as usual

[@helengunter378]

@@tylerjhunter still intelligent and eloquent even when drunk, I envy him his brain

[@Altair1904]

With all due respect I didn’t hear any compelling argument. He used to joke a lot to take the focus away from his poor arguments which is by itself a silent admission of a defeat

[@airdenmark]

Mr. Craig claiming a fictional book written, and rewritten numerous times, as a fact. But it is ONLY beliefs, not facts.

[@LGpi314]

We actually know it was written and then added on and changed to fit religious narratives, but none the less it is a fictional book, to begin with.

[@filmeseverin]

@airdenmark The truth is only one and it is not fiction. In brief, the Creator of this world (God/Divinity) exists because this reality, with us into it, is not the result of nothing, or the result of no intelligence, because *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes.* Humans, with very few exceptions, have lost their merit of direct communication with God because *each sin moves us away from God, from perfection.* God wants us back into Heaven and that is why we have to learn our lesson here, to prove that we have understood that freedom must always be used only for good, never for evil. Not all humans who ever lived on Earth had knowledge about the truth from those who deserved to have it revealed by Divinity and especially from Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity. It has always been easy for any human to know what the useless suffering is and to never produce it (no need for the Creator to tell us this). That is why *He expects us to strive to never do evil, especially to never do evil intentionally, to never cause useless suffering, any damage, to others and to ourselves.*

[@filmeseverin]

After hearing the truth about/from God/Jesus, only those who want to use freedom for evil are opposing to Divinity, feeling their freedom restricted, the really good humans being happy to receive the confirmation for their love of / striving for goodness, wisdom, justice... perfection, as Jesus Christ has said: *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this.

[@NERIAH7DAWN]

@@LGpi314 God exists One point that I wanted to cover a little more that William covered is the Big Bang, and where the universe came from, we’re told in school, as babies, our most influential times in our lives, that nothing existed until two atoms collided and made light and a ever expansive universe, which quite literally doesn’t make sense. Because if nothing was there, two atoms can’t be either. Unless someone created those atoms. Something always comes from something. And that’s just if science was accurate. But even using science, it doesn’t disprove God at all. Knowing the fact that if the sun was off by a meter we’d either burn or freeze, and that all planets being off just a little would send us out of orbit just enough to kill us all. As well as our atmosphere, gravity, and everything else allowing for life on earth. not just that, but our DNA, our blood cells, everything within the human chemistry just for us to be born, and function, and so on and so forth. To act like we just got lucky is simply ignorant. And then we got the Bible, and the text of presented within it, that many try to say is a false book, or fiction, or made up, and ignore the miracles presented in it, and evidence within it wether that’s Old Testament or New Testament. Which is funny because they believe their History Textbooks in school, and in college, and the news stations. All things capable, and likely to be altered and changed in their own right. Regardless let me continue, which I’m going to bring context from the New Testament, specifically the story of Jesus. Many saw the miracles he’s done, many saw the fact he healed the sick simply by touch, he casted out demons and healed the mentally ill, raised Lazareth from the dead, and was raised from the dead himself. Again, thousands saw these actions. Witnessed them. Just as the people who wrote the history textbooks either witnessed it, or heard from other individuals. To discount the things said in the Bible, at least regarding to actual events which taken place, and miracles performed, obviously above the human capability, is silly.

[@NERIAH7DAWN]

God exists One point that I wanted to cover a little more that William covered is the Big Bang, and where the universe came from, we’re told in school, as babies, our most influential times in our lives, that nothing existed until two atoms collided and made light and a ever expansive universe, which quite literally doesn’t make sense. Because if nothing was there, two atoms can’t be either. Unless someone created those atoms. Something always comes from something. And that’s just if science was accurate. But even using science, it doesn’t disprove God at all. Knowing the fact that if the sun was off by a meter we’d either burn or freeze, and that all planets being off just a little would send us out of orbit just enough to kill us all. As well as our atmosphere, gravity, and everything else allowing for life on earth. not just that, but our DNA, our blood cells, everything within the human chemistry just for us to be born, and function, and so on and so forth. To act like we just got lucky is simply ignorant. And then we got the Bible, and the text of presented within it, that many try to say is a false book, or fiction, or made up, and ignore the miracles presented in it, and evidence within it wether that’s Old Testament or New Testament. Which is funny because they believe their History Textbooks in school, and in college, and the news stations. All things capable, and likely to be altered and changed in their own right. Regardless let me continue, which I’m going to bring context from the New Testament, specifically the story of Jesus. Many saw the miracles he’s done, many saw the fact he healed the sick simply by touch, he casted out demons and healed the mentally ill, raised Lazareth from the dead, and was raised from the dead himself. Again, thousands saw these actions. Witnessed them. Just as the people who wrote the history textbooks either witnessed it, or heard from other individuals. To discount the things said in the Bible, at least regarding to actual events which taken place, and miracles performed, obviously above the human capability, is silly.

[@Darkpill-2]

58:12 - this is where Hitchens won the debate. Surely an all powerful god shouldn’t need eons to get something right? He can’t get it right with the snap of his fingers?

[@animeking17]

Which means god has to play the rules of mathematics he set by himself and Jesus couldn't have been resurrected as it would require the suspension of the law of nature.

[@vijaysimhareddypalvai]

when you’re talking about a religious god, you’re ultimately asking why did he create a universe with so many life-less galaxies and as well as why create humans and make them go through sins and virtues. It seems as if the god created humans to worship him and follow his commands, sounds like slavery? Oh what a sadistic thing to do. And when it’s the word of god, how are they horribly wrong about geocentric theory plus what is the Bloody Point of creating life on earth?

[@mackenzeestevens9711]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@vijaysimhareddypalvai Our beloved God loves us so much he gave us free will. If God wanted us to worship him, follow his commands etc, then that absolutely would be slavery. However, God gave us free will. Meaning, we have the choice to choose whichever path we take in our life. Sin happens because humans are imperfect. Although we seek perfection, yet in this world we can never achieve it. So with that, we have the choice to not believe and turn God away. Or to follow him and his word. And realistically, what do we have to lose by letting Jesus Christ in our hearts and believe that died for our sins? (meaning humanity was doomed because we are born sinners) it’s taking a leap of faith. And the point of life… no one knows. Maybe ask God yourself.

[@ailigimmo9668]

@@mackenzeestevens9711 God made us sinners....he invented the original sin :) And what is so amazing to die for our supposed sins knowing I will be resurrected again?

[@filmeseverin]

God is not bounded by what He has created and that is why everything is possible for God, and He is perfect, keep that in mind. This short earthly life is a school and exam for our immortal soul, for those who did not listen by the Creator to understand the value of "light" without experiencing the "darkness". Humans, with very few exceptions, have lost their merit of direct communication with God because *each sin moves us away from God, from perfection.* Not all who ever lived on Earth had knowledge about the truth from those who deserved to have it revealed by Divinity and especially from Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity. It has always been easy for any human to know what the useless suffering is and to never produce it (no need for the Creator to tell us this). That is why *He expects us to strive to never do evil, especially to never do evil intentionally, to never cause useless suffering, any damage, to others and to ourselves.* Divinity keeps the 100% freedom here for us, the free will of any human. He could/can intervene whenever He wanted/wants, of course, but *without affecting the free will, the free choices.* That is why we have full responsibility for our choices/deeds. Even in our prayers, as Jesus said: _"Therefore, I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, _*_believe that you have received them,_*_ and they will be granted to you."_ Mark 11:24

[@doggoslayer5679]

Why even watch the debate when the random people in the comment section are far more intelligent

[@strannick2212]

If not as intelligent at least as funny as least as funny as fck (sometimes)

[@avedic]

1:58:30 Check out the audience in the background. A lot of kids....people in their late teens and early 20s. And just watch them...all of them. Look how _interested_ and curious they all just seem. It seems pretty blatantly obvious to me. I honestly think Hitchens did a _huge_ service in showing up for this debate...at a Christian college. And it's just fascinating to watch this entire debate, and then almost 2 hours in, see the faces of just a tiny portion of the young audience there. I think his form of thinking absolutely had a lasting impact on many of them. Hell, this was 11 years ago...some of these people are now in their 30s. My brother used to be 100% on the young evangelical track....now, it's been many years since he's left that behind. Happened to me too. I'm 37....but from about 1997 to 2003 I was absolutely in the same camp...and convinced the rapture was just around the corner. I've moved far _far_ beyond that. And I'd venture a guess that many of the kids in this audience have as well...

[@georgedoyle7971]

avedic Totally agree Hitchens was brilliant it’s a shame he was so wrong about Iraq and mainly only dealt with the low hanging fruit in theistic belief during his debates. I don’t agree with his approach to the philosophy of religion but I still really like him to be honest and find many of his observations hilarious. However, many eminent atheist philosophers such as Mary Midgeley, Massimo Piggliussi, Michael Ruse, Thomas Nagel and scientists such as Roger Penrose prefer to distance themselves from “New atheism” recognising it as a militant form of atheism that does more harm than good.?Hitchens early history including family and school life certainly shaped many of his ideas as he was clearly a man of many contradictions.. He actually formed a close friendship with the theist Larry Taunton whilst they were on a road trip together in America. Hitchens was fighting cancer at the time and was actually being treated by a cancer expert who was a Christian minister. Interestingly, when skimming through a copy of the Bible on the way to a debate Hitchens asked Larry why did Jesus weep at the death of his friend Lazarus? There was no doubt he knew Jesus was an historical character and whilst he railed against theists and the Bible on stage, he maintained meaningful though largely hidden from public view friendships with Christians who were prominent scientists such as Francis Collins and the author Larry Alex Taunton. He also showed a lot of respect and humility towards the Oxford professor John Lennox after admitting to losing to him in one particular debate. It’s clear that, whilst Hitchens showed little reverence for “faith” and “superstition” on the stage, he had a likeable and lovable personality behind the scenes. It seems that what Larry and Hitchens shared on the two long road trips they had together was a (faith) in friendship which is possibly why Hitchens was curious about Jesus reaction to Lazarus death. However, there is no powerful evidence of Hitchens having a death bed conversion as some dishonest “theists” may claim. Equally, Larry Taunton did not claim Hitchens had a deathbed conversion as some staunch and dishonest atheists who haven’t even read Larrys book insist he did. Maybe Larry should have called his book the “Friendship of Hitchens” rather than the “Faith of Hitchens” so as not to offend the “faith” of staunch atheists. But why would Larry do such a disingenuous thing when he believed that the concept of human friendship had clearly evolved into more than just some herd or survival instinct. “Friendship is unnecessary, like philosophy, like art.... It has no survival value; rather it is one of those things which give value to survival” (C.S. Lewis). Lewis was an atheist nearly half his life and carried around shrapnel in his body from WW2. Interestingly, Lewis was a genius and converted to Christianity due to the (friendship) and influence of friends such as J.R. Tolkien and also the literature of G.K. Chesterton and George McDonald. Similarly, this quote from Hitchens speaks volumes about Hitchens character, honesty and approach to friendship when he was not in his stage persona... “If everyone in the United States had the same qualities of loyalty and care and concern for others that Larry Taunton had, we'd be living in a much better society than we do” (Christopher Hitchens)

[@sarahjustesen1305]

I hope so for their sake

[@jonellingsen1250]

Like you?

[@yelezi7950]

i went to sleep with my auto play on and woke up to this

[@emilsjansons6242]

😀

[@justinjackson7688]

lol me too

[@Oguh608]

The biggest difference between science and religion is that science is for the most part changeable. It's open minded and most theories are just that, theories. A lot of religious people think we all believe science is simply correct and we all believe the big bang is real which is still just our best theory/explanation. We don't have any better alternative right now so we use that as our base for the existence of the universe. Science is a lot of theory. We don't have an explantion for everything so we have a LOT of theories. Actual scientist don't use these theories as facts for the world. Just possible explanations. Science has been used to get to the moon, prevent disease and create the current world we live in. You can't deny that science has helped humanity reach new heights. etc. So I'd say it's pretty trustworthy overall.

[@filmeseverin]

Most scientists, doctors, engineers... are quite ignorant in many areas (some even in their field of study, unfortunately) but those without God/Jesus are the most deceived. _They should stop being deranged by the truth._ *All evil has been done because of stupidity and the main/worst stupidity has always been to not listen by God/Jesus.* In particular, for mankind, if ALL people (over history and nowadays) would have followed the main commandment from Jesus Christ, *besides to love / respect our Heavenly Father, to love / respect (care for) the other humans as we love / respect (care for) ourselves,* all the crimes and the tremendous useless suffering would have never happen. Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately: - so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War); - so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc. - sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general. We should never fight against each other but only against our lack of useful knowledge / wisdom (for decreasing our ignorance), while loving / respecting each other as we love / respect ourselves, these being the main requests of God/Jesus. Therefore, both science and proper education are very important to understand God's creation and what is better, regarding the human behavior, so that ALL of us can be not only happier in our ephemera life into this world (while we are still alive here) but also deserving, or at least allowable, for perpetual life in Heaven (after leaving this world).

[@filmeseverin]

"If you study science long enough and hard enough it will force you to believe in God" (Lord Kelvin)

[@Oguh608]

@@filmeseverin This doesn't mean anything.

[@LGpi314]

@@Oguh608 filmeseverin is a copy and paste brainless dumbdumb. We usually ignore him. LMAO

[@RetroBaby]

@@filmeseverinif science didn’t exist, and people put on a blind fold and followed your primitive, idiotic views. YOU wouldn’t be alive. The disease science discovered wouldn’t have ever been discovered by religious people thinking their word of “god” is the only truth they ever need. You wouldn’t have your car, your glasses, your phone, satellites, radio, literally all our achievements is science. And following religion has proven to reverse all progress, look at Iran for example. Thankfully most don’t actually believe in the Bible, this would be a very grim world, just like how it was in the dark ages when religion ruled the most.

[@Moneimjamei]

Hitchens did a great job of exposing the false narrative of the false claim of a Devine authority.

[@PaulusTarsus3574]

False narratives evolve from man's interpretation of scripture. Just one letter can throw things askew, such as your interpretation of divine being 'devine'.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@PaulusTarsus3574 And that's true for the words meant to explain the truth of a divine entity?

[@LGpi314]

@@PaulusTarsus3574 Why does god make it so difficult and leave us with "we have to interpret it"? I just don't get it.

[@filmeseverin]

The unbelievers of the truth are like those who live in "a house" (this world) but do not want both to follow the rules of the Builder/Owner (they denying Him) and to pay "the rent" (which means, in brief, to strive always only for good, for perfection, to never do evil, especially to not do evil intentionally) so that in the end, when they will face the Builder/Owner of the house (at the Judgment), they will regret their incorrect and undeserved using of the house (their earthly life). The truth is clear and simple. We, immortal souls, have been put here into our physical body to live this short earthly life as a school and exam, to prove that we are not following the fallen angels anymore, to escape hell, which has existed (of course) since Satan has started to do evil intentionally and he with the other fallen angels have been isolated by Heaven. _"For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the flood on its ungodly people, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, among the eight; if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly and if He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)- if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. Such punishment is specially reserved for those who indulge the corrupt desires of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and self-willed, they are unafraid to slander glorious beings. Yet not even angels, though greater in strength and power, dare to bring such slanderous charges against them before the Lord. These men are like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be captured and destroyed. They blaspheme in matters they do not understand, and like such creatures, they too will be destroyed. The harm they will suffer is the wages of their wickedness."_ 2 Peter 2, 4-13

[@mrsatire9475]

@@PaulusTarsus3574 False narratives evolve from man's creation of scripture.

[@FilterYT]

Lots of respect to Biola University for hosting this debate. Thanks.

[@bigdog2432]

FilterYT 1v1 on rust?

[@bigdog2432]

cesar leon ass hole

[@NA-vz9ko]

It’s a shame their speaking professor is such a charlatan. This debate was nonsensical. Just like all Christian talking points. Religion really needs to understand the works are metaphorical. Clearly evolution takes place. Clearly there is no God that interacts with us. There is no proof for it at all.

[@joshwalters3148]

@@NA-vz9ko but kudos for having a neutral moderator for once...

[@hitlard5305]

Nate McMillin After watching it I only saw evidence provided by Craig and not hitchens