I Tried to Balance The JAS-39 and it Still Wasn't Enough - War Thunder

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The Gripen is without a doubt THE most fun ruining plane at top tier in sim. In this video I removed some kit I deemed OP in an attempt to balance the plane. Enjoy! :)

[@DEFYN]

try without engine mods on 100% throttle

[@christopherchartier3017]

try without the stick and throttle

[@jordancourse5102]

@@christopherchartier3017he played on controller I think

[@TallyPatka-dz2cz]

​@@jordancourse5102I don't think so as on controller/console you can't really look back

[@unfazedmc5734]

@@TallyPatka-dz2cz nop ! if you see some of his other videos he talks frequently about faq on his controller setup

[@diprosla592]

try to wait for the devs to remove the IRCCM fox 2 then tell the diference when Mig29 and Yak 141 will gona dictate the Air rb with R27ER as the best Fox 1 with no way to counter it

[@o_Fusion_]

8:30 the reason it "didnt want to point down" was because weather by accident or on purpose youj switched the SAS from Damping to Automatic leveling. I have done this a few times myself. you can go 30 secs behind and see in the bottom left of you screen that it says that you switched. LOVE THE VID BROTHA. Fly mig 21 in next vid?????

[@nimbal3304]

Oh shit.. I never even noticed, thx for pointing that out I must've missclicked lol

[@lordcurre39]

look at air shows of gripen it looks like a drifting car in the sky it can do some amazing turns and the radar signature of it is less than a cruise missile and yes in game atm it is op

[@jordancourse5102]

The FM is the problem. I have the 39C and its energy retention is too good. It’s almost as if its drag is very low. Surprisingly you don’t see a lot of decent or good Gripen pilots. A decent Gripen pilot can just dog walk everything…. I thought I was the only one that thinks the Gripen is boring to fly.

[@teivabaudoin2666]

I mean the dev thinks it has no negative static or relaxed stability so it’s a FULLY stable plane in game… Canards don’t even act like canard but instead act like elevators… Gripen and F16 are bullshirt FM that’s it

[@a.anonymous1318]

​@@teivabaudoin2666together with an extremely nerfed flight model on the russian aircraft. Imo the F-16 only overperforms at lower speed (

[@aimesblack]

Turns out delta canard is busted for agility

[@bpop2148]

Who would’ve thought

[@saplingseedsaccrew3143]

Why is the JAS-39 so OP in warthunder? Summary: 720 flares makes you invulnerable to any enemy IR missile and you can auto spam them for a good long while, Aim-9Ms cannot be seen and you waste all your flares trying to flare a missile you can't see or pick up on, Best flight performance on an IRCM missile carrier, and RWR contact doesn't reveal who you are so the enemy doesn't know you're a Gripen. In a nutshell, its the F-16C but better in every way

[@dan_halfsvear]

F16 can carry more bombs and got more thrust for high alt. That doesn't translate to much ingame tho. Stop making it sound like Gripen is the only aircraft with 9M and flares

[@Sky_King7]

the BOL pod nerf was good, the one circle performance is (I think) believable. it is a delta wing after all. what I find hard to believe though, is that this thing also can out rate a viper. even with canards, that just doesn't seem right.

[@WOLFER.]

I thought the gripen was over performing but after I put a complaint on the forums, I checked for other complaints and MIG-23M (a player) gave gaijin evidence for the gripen to be nerfed which it ended up getting like 2 weeks after thr patch being dropped, then It got tweaked, so atm the gripen in real life has a sustained turn rate of 23° at 350 knots, sustains around 8G's, and the gripen has very similar flight performance, and it has a positive aoa limiter, so after all that, the gripen is pretty accurate, the main counters, will be the F-16A/C, F/A-18's, Euro fighter typhoon, and the Rafale. Three of these are ofc not in the game yet, but I've done my research, and all these aircraft are competitive against the gripen's

[@СергейНикольский-я2ц]

That’s what wiki and other sources that just copy paste this information say, if you check real military sources(South African for example) there’re a lot of unclassified documents that say that it has 12deg/s max sustained turn with normal loadout and its performance is much closer to the M2K than to the F-15/F-16 And basically if you really want to do some research you can do some calculations using Prandtl-Betz-Munk formulas for drag and lift and according to the numbers you can do even deeper calculations for deceleration/acceleration at any speed and AoA(1 - sustained turn at current speed and AoA, 1 - deceleration while turning) and you will never get sustained turn rate even close to 16deg/s for this plane

[@WOLFER.]

@user-jy6cn3jy8g see ik your full of shit because ik what "sources" your talking about, and it's a single image of the gripen C model, it says 12° of sustained turn rate but you have no idea in what conditions it achieved it, but don't worry, because there are other sources that say it can achieve 23° :)

[@squishface80085]

What source are you reading that says 23 degrees per second sustained turn rate?

[@WOLFER.]

@@squishface80085 a page from a flight characteristics manual circling the Internet that a player who complained the gripen was over performing to get it nerfed, I knee it was over performing, found his complaint, and his evidence, then I looked into it, turns out its true, not what I liked to hear, but if there are facts then I let it be.

[@squishface80085]

@@WOLFER. There is no source that claims that Gripen has a sustained turn rate of 23 degrees per second. At best the SAAB pdf on designing the Gripen can be interpolated to be around 20 degrees per second. And that has nothing to speak of the SEP values of the Gripen. The airframe itself retains twice as much energy over basically anything else while max pulling in the initial turn.

[@r1pper_r00]

About your fight with that MIG-29, I think it might be a case of the MIG underperforming rather than the Gripen overperforming: the german MIG-29 should have a slight STR advantage over the Gripen (approximately +1°/s at 50% fuel and 15000 ft according to an Aermacchi chart; the Gripen EM diagrams are not available yet). The F-16 outrates both, but (as you said) only if kept at a specific speed range as its higher wing loading gives it problems at very low speeds. In terms of ITR it's Gripen > MIG-29 > F-16, which again makes me think the MIG FM should be buffed a bit. The drag might be correct as it is: the Gripen achieves M1.05 with six AA missiles without afterburner and its close-coupled canards improve lift generation, thus reducing AOA in high G turns and bringing lift-induced drag down compared to a regular delta.

[@MrSweterek]

If you want to cripple ypurself on gripen you can place it on untrained crew without g-suit that makes your pilot to pass out mid turn that makes you flies equat to su27 because you have yo take those massive turns that even with full aim9m loadout

[@zzoega]

i understand its tough for you guys in sim but gaijin should not do an ahistorical nerf just because some players got killed. yes it might be unbalanced but top tier is always unbalanced, its just how it works in war thunder. soon something else will come and the gripen will be forgotten about. if you want the gripens performance nerfed, get some info on it and do a bug report. the gripens flight model is the most discussed flight model on the forum and no one can prove that its overperforming.

[@InTheMood-fi3bh]

It’s obviously overpreforming, and it’s dominating in everything. You cant just hand wave it away like you did.

[@zzoega]

@@InTheMood-fi3bh dominating everything is not proof its overperforming. And if theres anyone handwaving its you. Have you even read the 5000+ comments on the forum about the performance?

[@mamarussellthepie3995]

Or just give other meta jets and especially below it (THEIR OWN CM PODS) 😂

[@humbuggaming2126]

Almost like gripen is the most manouverable figther jet in the world

[@dan_halfsvear]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYmYeYurqJhmqKMsi=uSz3Hbf1RTqJM_Jm Video on how easy the Gripen is to fly

[@Zenitchik_130]

Good thing that most of gripen pilots are... not really familiar with flying so to say and you can beat them really easy. Never had problem with gripen after merge in F-15J but front aspect heat signature of this thing is really tricky for some reason

[@lordcurre39]

fight a gripen in ground rb or sim that has the radar turned off you wont win and you wont even see him atm i have 143 death 1178 kills

[@Zenitchik_130]

@@lordcurre39 well, flying in sim without radar is REALLY hard, and I never saw anyone going so unless turning it off from close range. Where I know it is here anyway. Ground RB is completely different field where anything with 9M/ AAM-3 performance better by default because there is no markers on missiles

[@lordcurre39]

@@Zenitchik_130 use your rwr and eyes to find them

[@Zenitchik_130]

@@lordcurre39 in RB? Sure thing. But with current sim you really need to be cautious with this, F-15s, F-16s and gripens are often found on both sides. But again this tactic applies for every aircraft from NATO side and in sim specifically I personally will pick 15J over gripen anyway

[@80Loke]

Ofc u go fast your stuck in afterburner

[@lordcurre39]

take a way the radar and play it

[@EggSaladSammich]

What i dont think is that the gripen needs a nerf as it will get overshadowed eventually and is the last plane of the swedish tree and will be FOR A LONG TIME This said what do i propose? Buff the F-15 and SU-27. Right now in game the F-15 has only 80% of its thrust and the Su-27 not having all of its lift. You dont need to nerf the gripen to balance it, simply buff the other planes to their irl stats so that way they are all strong and competitive in their own strengths and abilities. Once Fox-3s come the F-15 will be a BVR BEAST, same with the Su-27 but with a niche ability for having decent dogfighting, then the Gripen would likely have less BVR aspects but be almost untouchable in the dogfight if flown by a skilled pilot This will balance the gripen by making everything strong in its own way instead of the meta being gripens flying 10 meters off the ground then dogfighting the entire enemy team because their radar missiles cant do anything

[@ReepsWasteOfTime]

You have a great voice

[@lordcurre39]

the british can also get the E version since they have one they use it for EDTPS

[@ferrous3262]

no they use the D variant for training

[@viktorkarlsson4900]

Its for the EDTPS

[@deezpeople]

I think honestly if this is trying to be balanced I would not be against a Su-27/33 with the thrust gimble just to really crank down on the 2 circle and 1 circle fights

[@dan_halfsvear]

As someone else mentioned. If you look at Gripen in airshow and aawell as public stats released for sales/purchases: Gripen is supposed to be this OP. Let it be as it is. Long range missles can switch the meta and then faster and more powerful aircrafts can rule higher altitude. F35, F22, SU57 will also change things in terms of slow speed fights. Tho Americans claim that in 1 on1 close dogfight the F16 wins over F35. I don't get the mentality of that the minor nations always have to be crapped on. Was the same with JA37 and Mirages, ppl were whining so much for nerfs instead adapting so the Aircrafts got nerfed to hell. It's seems only American and USSR aircrafts are allowed to be good in some peoples mindsets. I'm really surprised your on the nerf train. You seem to be a good sim pilot. Just learn to deal with it instead of sounding like a butthurt brat

[@diprosla592]

exactly when ussr and usa mains dont Get to have BEST flaivor of month like this kido here that is just crying about the gripen being simply better then f16 in One thing: its bcs of the Fireball meta only thats it, if main fights were going on with FOX 1 and 9M and R73/Magic 2 werent a thing with IRCCM all fox 1 would be THE MAIN weapons...

[@nelsonh.9651]

it also got the off-boresight lock symbol on the HUD while none of the other top tier got that thanks to gaijin, I pull a bug report and just got ignored. although to really balance it out, just reduce the threshold of the ground echo to 20m ish and force a proper BVR fight

[@sukhoifanboi]

play bf 109s

[@saplingseedsaccrew3143]

11:41 As far as I'm aware only the F-16A block 10, Mirage 4000, Yak-141 and Mirage 2000 are the only aircraft that can beat a Gripen in a dogfight and that's it. Anything else cannot compete

[@Electzizi]

i did not know that you can change search mode in acm mode. this will make my life so much easier to fly a plane without hmd

[@Sweebless]

nimbal, what control binding allows you to pip up your view over the halo of the canopy?

[@kingbandit-2635]

Do you use vr? When playing sim

[@Zminutes]

can you post a new discord link please?

[@cookiecracker2]

try without using elevator.

[@csii6478]

What key bond do you use to pop your head above the HUD

[@jordancourse5102]

Headmovement upward

[@somaticapollo6025]

Is yak 141 a good dogfighter?

[@kyoMcMushy]

The best turn fighter when using thrust vectoring

[@Imblackchad]

When fox 3 come players will stay near airfield SPAA spamming & landing to rearm dog fighting days coming to a end .

[@M0LOCK]

With that multipath wrong modeled doubt it will change anything

[@Imblackchad]

@@M0LOCK that’s not going to stop players from spamming all 6 fox 3 . I’m telling you most dog fights are going to take place near Air fields. What will be the point flying into enemy territory.

[@M0LOCK]

​@@ImblackchadYou will only die if you dont have a clue on how WT works...they will be full loaded with ARHs,push them with IRs and kill them simple... multipath will protect everything that fly from ARHs...

[@M0LOCK]

@@Imblackchad Ppl will only die if they dont have a clue on how WT works... multipath will protect everything and you will only need to push since ppl will be loaded with ARHs anyways

[@M0LOCK]

@@ImblackchadYou will only need to push them on deck...they will be loaded with ARHs anyways making them almost uselless in ACM

[@dan_halfsvear]

Your rants are getting.... Repetitive. All aircrafts got its strengths. Gripen just fits the braindead furball meta

[@diprosla592]

exactly, if the game was skill based non fireball meta, the planes that would dominate would be the ones with best FOx 1 / 3 missiles aka R27ER so

[@СергейНикольский-я2ц]

Actually it’s very easy to balance this thing - make it’s FM somewhat realistic, irl its performance is very close to the M2K’s one with 12deg/s max sustained turn rate with normal loadout which is 1.5x less than f-15/su-27 have and is pretty much the same as M2K has and as M2K it’s also very good at stall speed manoeuvres and bleed a lot of speed in turns(as any delta), in the game it’s literally opposite - it’s not even close as good as M2K in low speed fights but it outrates f-16 and f-15 which is ridiculous

[@SuperTitoneli]

The only two planes that i don't fear gripens while im flying them is the f16 mlu and f16aj, its always easy for me deal with them in these two, but if im playing with something like a flanker i just quit if i see sweden or great britain in the tabs

[@Nummer15115]

I think that the gripen needs to be nerfed in the drag too but I think that another big problem is the RWR on the red side. And if we need SU 30's to solve this, than give it to the game but reduce its capabilities over the amount and kind of missiles.

[@CruLisP]

Gripen ingame have the irl drag load so its pretty much close to irl