I Understand the Inversion --But Why the Weirdness? | Jay Dyer & Jonathan Pageau

[@hmkzosimaskrampis3185]

Fr Seraphim Rose wrote that absurdity is a characteristic of the demons.

[@Robb3348]

then it must be true

[@Learnerofthe]

Oh wow, how could I miss this... I recently found Jay's channel and I love his content, Pageau on top of that? My lord, what a combo

[@abigail5484]

Same, and I was just thinking about the *weird* catholic masses that popped up in my YT search the other night, when I was trying to see how their usual mass is 😅

[@assemblyofsilence]

“Something Wicked This Way Comes” by Ray Bradbury brilliantly describes the carnival coming to town and the way it infiltrates and inverts society unleashing its monstrous shadow. Great book and very good movie too.

[@crushinnihilism]

Insane Clown Posse

[@TheRKae]

Listen to "Karn Evil 9" by Emerson, Lake & Palmer. It's a story song about a dark, oppressive, industrial society; a computerized carnival comes to town; the carnival gets more and more hedonistic, then a war happens wherein the computer is our friend... after the war, the computer turns on humanity, wipes us all out, then shuts itself off. It's not just a song; it's a prophecy.

[@annabell3385]

@@TheRKae How are some people so tuned in to these things before the rest of us? Maybe they saw it from the start, like some of us saw the internet start.

[@jeffhaskett2766]

You never see Disney playing it anymore.

[@gotthis5613]

Its not a prophecy its the stupid ramblings of a non-believer

[@marybrewer2203]

One place in liturgy that has started to cause damage in some churches is the tendency to make the time of taking communion into some sort of social time. People take bread and juice/wine almost as if they are munching on hors d’oevres, or something. People sit and talk to each other, or simply leave the service at this moment of sacred connection with our Lord. Sometimes I have to place my fingers in my ears as I sit in meditation. I have experienced this in Protestant and Catholic Churches alike. The lack of reverence breaks my heart. I would rather share bread and wine with one of the folks on the street…sometimes they understand better than the nicely dressed folks in the church building.

[@theYungOldBoi]

So leave the heretical and Schismatic clown churches behind and join the Church that God resides in

[@animula6908]

Just remember, St. Paul had to tell people not to use communion as a buffet, and not to try to grab a fistful to take and eat later. This has been a problem since the earliest days of the church. Don’t let it ruin the moment for you, but appreciate the patience the apostles had to cope with even worse abuses. ❤

[@tasmarkou5681]

I got that at my local greek church, but at a n English service I go to, all x protestants,they are respectful which is nice and inspiring

[@Gh0zT-777]

Our protestant church has always kept the communion SACRED.

[@daddycool228]

@@animula6908 Hi, where does he say this?

[@am6589]

The two people I listen to most on KZbin, together! Awesome.

[@theYungOldBoi]

Peep thebfull episode

[@CristoMorelli]

​@@theYungOldBoi Is in the video description

[@hellomate639]

The weirdness is a manifestion of a specific intersection of spirituality and the mundane, as if to make it more likeable.

[@barbaraseville4139]

A Corvette? Heresy! It is written: They were all in one Accord.

[@cowboyschad5x778]

Honda W

[@jamersbazuka8055]

I came here to say this, but lo, it had already been said.

[@Ac-ip5hd]

Thanks, hope you guys speak again.

[@ikkinwithattitude]

"Meaning breaks down at the edge or end of something" certainly explains the feeling I had that we've been living the final dungeon of a Final Fantasy game, lol.

[@alvarocoronel67]

“What’s with the weirdness?” the tricolor man said.

[@maxfunk5773]

Vive La France!

[@theYungOldBoi]

​@@Goths-On-The-Beach it was just a funny comment chill out

[@Azrael454]

Jay Dyer is amazing, keep having him on please.

[@AnthonyStoic]

I literally spit out my drink when Jay mentioned the apostles in the Corvette. Lord have mercy.

[@magoog10]

Chesterton in Orthodoxy: Symbols alone are of even a cloudy value in speaking of this deep matter; and another symbol from physical nature will express sufficiently well the real place of mysticism before mankind. The one created thing which we cannot look at is the one thing in the light of which we look at everything. Like the sun at noonday, mysticism explains everything else by the blaze of its own victorious invisibility. Detached intellectualism is (in the exact sense of a popular phrase) all moonshine; for it is light without heat, and it is secondary light, reflected from a dead world. But the Greeks were right when they made Apollo the god both of imagination and of sanity; for he was both the patron of poetry and the patron of healing. Of necessary dogmas and a special creed I shall speak later. But that transcendental-ism by which all men live has primarily much the position of the sun in the sky. We are conscious of it as of a kind of splendid confusion; it is something both shining and shapeless, at once a blaze and a blur. But the circle of the moon is as clear and unmistakable, as recurrent and inevitable, as the circle of Euclid on a blackboard. For the moon is utterly reasonable; and the moon is the mother of lunatics and has given to them all her name.

[@marshalmcdonald7476]

WOW Marty!! Good words you pen here. If I may, what are your influences?? You sound sane and warm-hearted. I got a lot out of what you are suggesting here.

[@marshalmcdonald7476]

Just noticed you were quoting Chesterton. Props still to you for the quote.

[@Erosistheonlyreal]

Incredible passage

[@ClearLight369]

What's weird is that they'll put the apostles in a Corvette, but no one paints the founding fathers in a Corvette, or ancient emperors or Plato and Aristotle. Michelangelo and Raphael updated the pagans into christian contexts, but only in Christian contexts is anyone trying to update the ancients these days.

[@Leathal]

Everyone knows the disciples came together in one Accord; we need to dispense with this fiction that they bought American

[@TiroDvD]

"Coming Out" is the primary and initiation sacrament of the Alphabet movement.

[@polodude19]

And a sex change is a baptism to be born again.

[@bubbag8895]

Good catch

[@JeffCaplan313]

I thought "testifying about being touched by the love of J.C." was a Christian thing?

[@Jay-eg2ns]

circumcision*

[@robertpatter5509]

@@JeffCaplan313 The Woke got touched by Saint Floyd and Lord Von Epstein

[@Ortholocks]

What do you make of the four creatures that come in revelation? I believe they are also hybrids also? Is that because they are representative of the end?

[@marklefebvre5758]

A more useful framing for me is that inversion is a sign that you cannot escape the thing you are running away from. It's ignoring the su bmission to creation itself becuase many folks are actually just ignoring the conccept of creation, somethjing that existed before they were conscious. You rebel, but you are simple at the end of the system and cannot get out of the system so the whole idea of escape is absurd. This idea of wind making noise instead of meaning is important, that is the meaning crisis, unable to tell noise from signal. The point about music is important too, there is a breakdown of meaning in music because it's not art aimed at the highest. You can't have NONE, but you can have TOO MUCH, hence, where we are at.

[@ethanb2554]

TLDR: "Protesting" as identity is the will of evil.

[@thomasjorge4734]

Subversion, Inversion, Perversion.

[@seanmichaelpatten3930]

Johnathan literally talking about ICP being right.

[@Bigjuicydumbdumb]

Always were

[@willsmith9726]

What you said about the whore and the beast reminded me of the Poe short story The Masque of the Red Death, where degenerate nobles enjoy a wild party right up until Death appears to take them all.

[@jimmieoakland3843]

That's an interesting image, the never-ending carnival. I keep waiting for things to calm down, but the weirdness remains on the march. The off switch is broken, and something is coming and that something is not good.

[@wearetheremnants1615]

The west will be turned into an open air ghulag/concentration camp.

[@theYungOldBoi]

A reign that will wash the scum off the streets

[@AnGryPOETry]

In hebrew the word holy is Qadosh קדוש i think its spelled, and its closest english construct is 'set apart'. So consider the sabbath day, which was made "holy", that makes it a 'set apart' day; also the holy days, often referred to as feast days, which are also set apart festivals. Or how God is referred to as "holy, holy, holy", which is Qadosh, qadosh, qadosh, or set apart times 3. Wonder how you guys view this hebraic understanding of 'set apartness' which i find to be distinct from the more abstract, hellenistic stance we inherited when we consider "holy"ness.

[@LAGoff]

​@@Joe-po9xn Can you explain all the personal 'comings-down' of God in the OT, such as God coming down on Mt. Sinai and speaking to Moses and the people, etc.? What is ' mechanistic' about that?

[@LAGoff]

What's the connection between this talk and kadosh? Anyway, I like to see holiness as raising up time and space to Godliness: the Sabbath sanctifies (raises up) time; eating kosher (and saying a blessing over food) raises up the animal act of eating; tsitsit (fringes) raise up our clothing to Godliness; even circumcision raises up (sanctifies) our body to God. So this raising up (to God) can be seen as 'setting apart', in that one thing (a day, a piece of clothing, a piece of skin, etc.) 'raises up' the rest of days (time) and food, clothing and our bodies (space)

[@benjanes3675]

This is how Anton Lavey describes his 'revelation' concerning the creation of his version of Satanism - taken directly from the Satanic Bible: "Anton LaVey began the road to High Priesthood of the Church of Satan when he was only 16 years old and an organ player in a carnival: "On Saturday night I would see men lusting after half-naked girls dancing at the carnival, and on Sunday morning when I was playing the organ for tentshow evangelists at the other end of the carnival lot, I would see these same men sitting in the pews with their wives and children, asking God to forgive them and purge them of carnal desires. And the next Saturday night they'd be back at the carnival or some other place of indulgence.'" We could say that there was a spirit of mockery that lived in Lavey and that he felt that he had found the carnival to be an example of God's power lacking the ability to save human nature. The Satanists are so-called atheists - one could say that it's easier to believe in their being no God than to believe that the reason that God can not save all of human nature is directly because of the choice not to believe. It's a sad state of spiritual affairs.

[@St.MartinofToursPrayToGodForUs]

Weirdness is literally like "to be queer." Being queer is an identity without an essence. Queer is without definition, it is necessarily that which opposes the normal. This is textbook Foucault and Marcuse. This was a really good video!

[@harrisonshields7084]

14:10 I would like to know what Jonathan thinks happened around WWII which set into motion this non-stop carnival that we are now living in. The unleashing of nuclear power? American hegemony?

[@rustybeltway2373]

I took him to mean that's when the carnival we're on started. Prior to the suffering of WW2 was the suffering of the Great Depression. The Roaring Twenties (1920's) was the last carnival. Before that WW1.

[@harrisonshields7084]

@@rustybeltway2373 So you see him saying that the weirdness of the time we are in now is just one more round on the cycle of weirdness leading to some sort of downfall and then on to relative stability from where the carnival begins to climb again? That’s interesting. I took him to be characterizing our time as unique in some sense from everything that’s come before. He does say that weirdness and inversion was used correctly in Medieval times (ie long before WWI or the roaring 20s), but has been moving into an unhealthy central place in our culture since this carnival began around WWII. I took this to mean that he was drawing a distinction between the pre- and post-WWII world. Perhaps just a projection on my part.

[@rustybeltway2373]

@@harrisonshields7084 Patterns repeating for sure, but ultimately leading to the final pattern.

[@Orthodoxi]

Who chose the word "weird" to frame this for the discussion? Christ is risen!

[@royalbirb275]

Truly He is risen!

[@firmbiz000]

Anyone got a link 1:42 in reference to the bishop of England sliding down the slide

[@animula6908]

I don’t, but Jonathan did a video that focused on it in greater depth. There might be a link or a clip there.

[@MagnificentFiend]

If anyone has an image of the "apostles in a car" stained glass that Jay talked about, I want to see it!

[@RandallSGregory]

WHAT KIND OF CAR DID jESUS DRIVE? a HONDA Acts 2:1 They was all in accord

[@MoiLiberty]

Not even their apostles could say no to a White 2024 Corvette! Maybe they chose the Red 2024 Corvette 🏎️!

[@EmperorSigismund]

And on the walked, and sometimes drove.

[@scottnyc6572]

What was with that grim reaper walking midway through the cathedral as the coronation procession passed by?

[@HubertofLiege]

He was looking for Biden, nobody told him he stayed home.

[@EmperorSigismund]

"Something bizarre is happening at the carnival." "I thought that was the whole point."

[@ElizabethRussell144]

Weirdness=Mockery.

[@olafhaze7898]

From the other side there is the same weirdness found while looking at people still considering among themselves instead taking the opportunity on the horns ;) but you have a great advantage which is that you at least are not concealing

[@SeekerAppleSwordSerpent]

Does this have any relation to the ‘upside down’ in the tv series Stranger Things?

[@rigavitch]

Marvellous 🙏🏼☦

[@outoforbit-]

A big correction to your mentions of absurd activities supposedly in the Catholic Church. The churches that these activities took place in are NOT CATHOLIC under the Pope in Rome. The Churches you are referring to are Anglican, Church of England and Methodist. As none of these churches are under the pontiff in Rome, we catholics have always known them as Protestant. The head of the Anglican and Church of England is elected by the English monarch regardless of whether the monarch bothers to practice his faith. Just like the head of your church Jonathan is elected by Vladimir Putin. Surely you can see that's inverted. Anyway I live in the UK and I can tell you that the Anglican Church aligns itself with Orthodoxy, NOT the Roman Catholic Church. As much as I like your channel and your unique perspective, I have noticed that you regularly criticise the Catholic Church and sometimes with gross exageration. This really surprises me as it's not generally the kind of person you are. Almost daily now I hear outrageous lies and misrepresentations of the Catholic Church. Please Jonathan do not join in the persecution.

[@shawnseay3584]

Because the enemy has only come to murder steal and destroy. Chaos is the tool.

[@clipdump]

Pageau is right. The demons are running out of novel contradictions. We are in fact near the end of the road here. Either the page turns or the book closes but it’s going to be a wild ride. Keep visiting the sacraments everyone and whatever you do, do not sin

[@marycayburkindine1003]

I've seen the " dancing "saints" that church is not Orthodox. They are just using the art style of our icons. They don't understand what a "Saint" is.

[@gingersnap1552]

I am curious about what your opinion is on the icon Zelensky gave to the pope. It was an icon of the Holy Theotokos with baby Jesus as a black void. I personally found it disturbing. The artist claimed that the blacked out baby Jesus represented all of the children killed after the Russian invasion. Not all of the children killed in the Donbas since 2014 by the Ukrainian military.

[@hellomate639]

A Ukrainian artist painted it. I'd say Zelensky is probably blind to the sketchy spiritual happenings and the artist is probably being influenced by sketchy spiritual forces. That's my guess.

[@wearetheremnants1615]

Zelensky is from the tribe so is a worshipper of satan .. almost all leaders in the west are of this talmudic bent.. see the recent article on the whitehouse team all 4x2s

[@Jay-eg2ns]

​@@hellomate639 or maybe it is the fact that Zelensky is a chew and we all know that chosenites are physically repelled by the image of the Christ

[@migspeculates]

Zelensky is Jewish so he had no idea what he presented the pope

[@l.sophia2803]

@@hellomate639 Zelensky is a cross dressing comedian entertainer with associations that make his proclivities undeniable, before being installed as 'President.' by the neocon gloablists. You can find the videos and see and experience for yourself. This is a deeper hole of chaos imo than we can even imagine from here on JP videos..

[@DFMoray]

I think creatures and “monsters” come from a love for exotic animals. As long as they are beautiful in their design. Not gross or messed up weird bodies that don’t make sense.

[@richardmeiners6535]

Try going to an Eastern Orthodox Church, they are dragging their feet on change. Shop around several churches as each of the national based churches will have a different flavor, the same liturgy, but different music, iconography etc. If you don't like the first one, or if they are a bit reluctant to accept outsiders, move to the next. And always try talking to the priests before you go, so you can know what to expect.

[@acekoala457]

"Dragging their feet on change" More like "Firmly Planted in the Faith of the Apostles"

[@SeekerAppleSwordSerpent]

It would be great if you did an analysis of Stranger Things and Barbie, I think! Do you see any connections symbolically? I feel like the ‘Upside Down’ has a relation to the notion of inversion and ideology. The struggle in the plot is against the inversion. Whereas in Barbie it’s like the ideological inverted utopia that won the battle. Lots of interesting symbolism and Stranger Things is so unusual-I never grasped ‘Upside Down’ as inversion until I saw you talk about how inverted the times are right now such that comedians point to normality as the absurd for laughs.

[@HoldinCoffeeReturns]

2:09 Someone farted

[@ominousbiscuit]

Based

[@Alexander_Isen]

You mean accidental air came out the inverted end *sniff* ahh yes very symbolic

[@boomshroom5118]

It was Jay 😂

[@elusivemayfly7534]

Y’all, you’d be surprised how soon past 30 those farts can start getting away from you 😂

[@Kaihku]

It was a spoiler of Bosch's butt creature they talked about later. Actually I think it was a fly flying close to Jay's microphone.

[@catsmews]

Remember when Edge guys in the music scene of the early 2000's made the X sign with hands. X - Edge.

[@na_haynes]

Gotta be honest, I have been enjoying Christian meme pages.

[@matthewkay1327]

Just a couple of guys discussing the end of the world 🎉.

[@jochoa1570]

There is a church here in America where a preacher rode a zip line to the stage. 😑

[@leondbleondb]

😂👌

[@cowboyschad5x778]

Just like Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania 12

[@tomgee8211]

Speaking of Symbols, what’s with the light on Jay’s face. the red/blue programming??

[@dustmemory9891]

Perhaps people are so exhausted by the world that the need for carnival is omnipresent

[@micahwatz1148]

These patterns just make actual Christians stronger. Whether they be Protestant, Ortho, or RC.

[@coalbee8058]

This is like St. John talking to St. Matthew, I love you both.

[@TwinCitiesOxygen]

You guys need to talk again

[@hellomate639]

A lot of what also is going on is that people are reacting to hyper order and lack of idiosyncracy from the past century or so. It's always a matter of imbalance and improperly placing things in the wrong place. But the weirdness and obscene is fundamentally different than pure idiosyncrasy. Like the horn out of the butt.... no one is truly passionate about becoming a butt horn trumpeter to where its a reflection of their nature. Most idiosyncratic things that are true and important about people actually have a healthy method of integration. That is, I don't think God makes immutable things about people that aren't fundamentally reconcilable or aren't able to be integrated. So... being gay is an idiosyncrasy... and it's beautiful precisely because it is idiosyncratic and reconcileable. That is, multiplicity is the source of variety, and idiosyncrasy is the source of multiplicity. The problem is putting idiosyncrasies on the altar and worshipping them. What is needed is to bring the wholeness of love to the idiosyncrasy, rather than to idolize it. That is, to save modernity, we must embrace idiosynrasy and teach people not to worship it, as idiosyncrasy worship is a form of self worship. But to see yourself as a child of God with your normal traits and idiosyncratic traits, and bringing that Love to your idiosyncrasy while also laying them before God to be judged worthy of keeping. That, so far, feels like how it should be, but I'm working on it.

[@theYungOldBoi]

I advise you listen and learn more and theorize less

[@hellomate639]

@theYungOldBoi Instead of making an impossibly generalized statement, why don't you mention something more specific? I listen to quite a lot of Jonathan Pageau, but I always try to balance who I listen to and integrate how I feel on the topic, from the highest place I can muster, which requires a lot of mental responsibility and labor. I'm currently looking for a Church, but unfortunately, Churches are also often overrun by people who think humans lived on Pangea. Or they're overrun by willy nilly leftists who shirk tradition, when tradition is also core. I'm actually considering the Ethiopian or Eritrean Orthodox Church, because I also do believe in allowing oneself to submit to someone else's teaching as a way of keeping your ego in check. So, there's some more detail about me, to give you context of where I am coming from. I'm a philosopher by nature. It's a double edged sword - but that's true of all limitation. That is, there are also the lightning quick people for whom things are simpler, but they also tend not to think as deeply, but also tend to get more done and enjoy more mental stability. Though, I've finally reached a point where all my philosophizing is reaching this sort of stability and I do plan to make content. But I want a church first before I start doing that because I do want that structure of something grounding so I can't get too far into left field and spread things that are not as good inadvertently. There are always tradeoffs for personality traits.... Anyways... best of wishes to you.

[@hellomate639]

@@theYungOldBoi I might also ask that you read what I wrote more closely as a lot of it reflects what pageau already has said.... or my understanding of it

[@mrepix8287]

Being gay is disgusting and you know it. It is a totally unserious form of life that makes sexual fetish more central to romance than starting a family and becoming a mother or father.

[@countryboyred]

Being gay is not beautiful. God destroyed Sodom for its wicked sexual perversion.

[@Kaihku]

Carlton Mellick III is the new Bosch...

[@SimpleAmadeus]

I came to faith a few years ago, in a small Protestant community. I discovered the truth of Orthodoxy about half a year ago (wow, time flies..). The couple that was effectively leading the community were effectively clowns. A few times even literally. It always felt a little confused at the time, but now it's quite clear that the thing they're worshiping is not quite Jesus. It's a Jesus-like entity, but one that embraces chaos and confusion. It centers around a mode of evangelizing that is prepared to forfeit anything that seems orderly and serious, as long as it attracts people in an energetic manner. But it is a drunk type of energy, no one who takes the bait actually endures for very long. I seemed to be the only exception, joining and remaining active for about 3 years, until I left when I discovered that Orthodoxy is true. I suspect the reason I endured is because I had zero interest in the circus aspects and just left the "responsibility" for that to them. Come to think of it, the only time I participated in an actual circus vibe, it was by wearing a top hat and suit, which is just about the only formal wear available in a circus context. It's quite interesting to see the circus symbolism be so clear in hindsight, signaling that this was an upside-down church. They would probably even embrace that title, since they would also often speak of "God's upside-down kingdom".

[@SimpleAmadeus]

Reading what I wrote again, I notice that it sounds as if this community was an all-out circus all the time. That was not the case. It was more of a very big focus on a mix of fun and foolishness, for the sake of attracting people, which I now notice as being symbolically equivalent to a circus. Them setting up a literal circus atmosphere was a rare occurrence.

[@jonathanskeet5076]

Nilpferd - literally "Nile Horse" the modern German word for hippopotamus.

[@vasilymartin4051]

Jonathon, consider doing an analysis of being 'cool'. What exactly is it? Is it primarily a manifestation of lust? And who were the first 'cool' kids? We're they thousands of years ago, or were they more recent than that?

[@theYungOldBoi]

Great idea. Cool arose in the 50s with the idea of a Man who is stoic and unmoved on the surface by passions. Think James Dean

[@hellomate639]

@@theYungOldBoi I feel like I'd want a deeper analysis than that, but I like this idea that it is recent.

[@hellomate639]

My guess is thinking about it as conferring value to animalistic status over spiritual status. It also carries with it a luciferian self sufficiency. I.e. Satan in Paradise Lost says something like "the mind is its own place, it can make a hell of heaven or heaven of hell." Modern people cite this quote as if it is wise, shockly often, without noting that it is a deep illustration of the perverted mentality of the devil. That is, it is glorifying and proclaiming self sufficiency in God's absence, but doing so in a way that appears wise - a good illustration of the depth of deception.

[@keeperofthedomus7654]

The "dandies" of the early 1800s might have been an early "cool kid" movement. It was created by young men to rebel against the fashions and dress of their elders. It seems to me that "coolness" comes from young men creating a hierarchy amongst themselves separate from the traditional social hierarchy. See also the Bertie character from Jeeves and Wooster stories by Wodehouse. The 1950s democratized "cool" movements to all classes of men and young women (ie greasers, beatniks, and bobbysocks-ers)

[@tomgee8211]

I would say it was born in 1957, specifically with Miles Davis’ Album: “The birth of Cool”

[@johnmartin4650]

Methodist cathedral…..?

[@Ggdivhjkjl]

John Wesley sent a man named Coke to America as a Methodist "superintendent" who immediately started calling himself a bishop, hence how they have cathedrals. Charles Wesley wrote a hymn against his brother for doing that which includes the line, "On Coke hath Wesley laid his hands but who lay hands on him?" For Charles knew John lacked the authority to ordain.

[@vasilymartin4051]

Well, when normal is good, then the abnormal is bad. Weird lends itself to the abnormal

[@tedclemens4093]

The weirdness is, as you say, "going against the meaning"-but that's not necessarily the intention. Apart from God, or some core standard (the "guardian" of law), the flesh will follow its own course. It's the blind leading the blind. And that course, as you say, follows predictable patterns. Thank you for exposing that.

[@SuperFenderson]

Anyone know what text this prophetic clown Mass St John of the Cross had?

[@Ggdivhjkjl]

He didn't say St John of the Cross. He said St John of Kronstadt.

[@RAndrewKReed]

Inclusivity = destruction of boundaries (put this way it doesn't sound so great)

[@Judges.]

Crazy - Le sserafim

[@Morn1n5tar]

Talking butt creatures !! …took the words straight outta my … errrm 😆🥁🐢🐇

[@elusivemayfly7534]

😂

[@06rtm]

Because idiosyncrasy is exceptional, just not in the good way.

[@TiroDvD]

I contest Monsters on Sesame Street. In it's origin (70s) Monsters were characters created to represent the Id. Everyone has Id impulses and children have to learn that they exist, and to control them. What child doesn't become a little monster when they are told they cannot have cookies? What child is still a monster when they devour their cookies? But yes what Sesame Street is doing today in the West is awful.

[@jorge4009]

If that was the rationale, it doesn't go against the point made in the video, it quite literally follows it. If the intent was pure or not, it portrayed the passions as friendly, funny creatures. This supposed underlying meaning is just as much of an inversion as the literal depiction it uses to carry its meaning: funny and friendly monsters.

[@jorge4009]

My point is, abrasive as I always seem to be without fail, that if you want children to be less afraid of X, if you portray X as being anything other than what it actually is, you are doing no favor whatsoever. That is, if you take a symbol of, for example, what is terrifying and change it so much it actually no longer points to the terrifying, you have not gained territory over it, but actually allowed it to go unnoticed. Like, why would you having a symbolic grammar to refer to good and bad things, deliberately resign a huge portion of its expressive power just so things don't look as hard or as bad as they truly are? I much rather a kid would see Pinocchio than friendly monsters. I think that's the point I'm trying to make. Sorry

[@stan1050]

Sesame St. was funded by Rockefeller money through the Carnigie foundation.

[@rustybeltway2373]

@@jorge4009 But by making the monster friendly and cuddly (non-monster attributes) you're participating in the inversion, Pageau's pont exactly.

[@TechnoirGraphix]

Bazed 👑☦️🕊️

[@ClearLight369]

Jonathan, your comments on modernitys perpetual carnival make you sound like Rene Guenon.

[@canadianamateurfilmdude]

If your church has Ella Fitzgerald as an icon, get out of there..

[@packersredhot]

Butt Monsters would be hilarious if it wasn't so scary

[@ArthurMPena]

"...since WWII..." "Since"....? But, when you think about it, is there really anything happening now that is actually crazier or more destructive than WWII? Wasn't a lot of "post-modern" stuff really a reaction (and possibly a good reaction) to the insanity of all the hierarchies and triumphalisms and ideological certainties of WWII?

[@wearetheremnants1615]

No. It's an extension of the plan to destroy the white European race , (Christendom)

[@memoriesofmercia3809]

I like the Orthodox world view but feel its very ethnically exclusive compared to the RC church.

[@rustybeltway2373]

Old guys like me remember the now empty immigrant RC churches that fill rust belt cities. Italians, Polish, Irish RC's etc all had their own churches, often across the street from one another in small coal mining towns. In bigger cities, an Irish wanting to marry an Italian was considered a mixed marriage and was often forbidden by parents.

[@returntosoul4561]

As a female having spent years trying to reach a point of being able to go into the Church, hearing Johnathan speak of the feminine as the whore, to be cast out, saddens me. I do greatly appreciate Johnathan’s work. When the feminine can not find a place and is sincere, where should she look?

[@battlama9958]

First and foremost at Mary, the blessed mother of God. Then there are all the saints (some of them used to be actual whores, but Christ clothed them in glory). Hopefully you have friends or elder women you can look up to in your daily life

[@MrsYasha1984]

I concur. The female rolemodel in the Church is always Mary. Think of it like this: we women are the gate through which salvation enters the world. Not from us, but through us! It is a wonderful role to try to fill. But it is a subtle one, and it is difficult to wrap the head around

[@harrygarris6921]

He’s referencing the whore of Babylon in Revelation 17. She doesn’t represent femininity she represents some kind of straying from God and giving in to desire.

[@canadianamateurfilmdude]

You are misunderstanding his point. Women have an important role to play in the church, albeit it different than men.

[@harrisonshields7084]

I get the feeling that if Jonathan had been alive in Medieval Europe he would have been the guy who was against the inversion masses and ceremonies and decorations which he is now celebrating as the legitimate use of weirdness and inversion. He would have been the head of the “Take the Gargoyles Off Our Churches” committee.

[@BasFolmer]

What makes you think that?

[@JackDSquat]

I don’t see it

[@harrisonshields7084]

@@BasFolmer Jonathan is very smart and I like to listen to him and take his pov into account. But there is a strong human tendency, especially amongst more socially conservative persons, to demonize one’s own time and to nostalgize the past. Since Jonathan is doing this now I think there is a good chance that he would be doing it in any time in which he might have lived.

[@filida]

@@harrisonshields7084 He is very balanced and profound in understanding reality. And he is the first one to speak against nostalgia. I think you are biased toward modernity and you are projecting.

[@harrisonshields7084]

@@filida Umm… I didn’t express my feelings about modernity at all, so I don’t know how you would be able to tell whether or not I was biased towards or against it, nor if I was or wasn’t projecting that hypothesis bias. I’m only saying that if a person says “Today things are bad, but in the past they were as they should be” now, that person would probably be expressing similar propositions had they existed in that idealized past. He says that we live in a carnival now, but the world was still completely effed up in the Medieval Age. Vilolence, pestilence, poverty, disease, filth, etc. were everyday realities for a far greater percentage of the people living on Earth in those days than they are now, but today we have people calling into question our gender norms! OH NOOOOO!

[@gregorymoats4007]

The red white and blue lighting is absolutely distracting…

[@alld47hidrohnilougue31]

The one and only orthodox divine liturgy I went to. I was forced to wear a covering over my nose and mouth = clown mass.

[@AugustasKunc]

+

[@zin5650]

Carnival, yup..karn evil

[@thatwifeofhis7815]

The trans phenomenon

[@GC-fb1pc]

Seek and find a Latin Mass...

[@aWomanFreed]

Jay always with the stupid filter…what’s the symbolism there

[@bradspitt3896]

It's not a filter, it's red and blue lighting lol. That's the vapor wave aesthetic. It's dystopian, and we're in it.

[@lisaonthemargins]

Lol I'm a fan. It's a vibe.

[@JayDyer]

haha

[@aWomanFreed]

@@bradspitt3896 it actually amazes me how you guys can watch this channel, learn how everything around us holds occult meaning, yet dismiss COLOR. C’mon now

[@bradspitt3896]

@@aWomanFreed Everything has multiple meanings.

[@michaelanthony4750]

This guys humor is dry lol

[@BryanKirch]

Jay is a prideful cliff to walk towards. Very surprised to see you work with him and offer that as a path for anyone who follows you.

[@issaavedra]

I don't like his style either, but his approach to theology helped me to strengthen my faith, as a recent convert. Also, in their conversation Jay pushed Pageau into interesting places.

[@BryanKirch]

@@issaavedra God uses everything for good but we should be wary of confusing that with goodness in my opinion. He’s a psychological rebellious teenager who’s obsessed with knowledge over Wisdom.

[@hitchwagster]

​@@BryanKirch *wary?

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

​@@BryanKirch prideful but correct

[@BryanKirch]

@@visancristian8450 I’m not here to cast stones. He got wounded and stopped growing up. Like us all. But that’s exactly why he shouldn’t be playing the role of a priest but a parishioner. should all Truth be kept silent because it’s offensive to some people that have fallen for following him? I’m just being discerning. You’re welcome to listen to him. I’m just surprised Jonathan consider him even remotely valid.

[@frenlyfire]

associating with jay dyer is a bad look

[@leondbleondb]

Sounds like what they would have told Jesus during his ministry.

[@JayDyer]

why?