I’ve been tricked! It has no power!

[@PhotographyInFlight4183]

Thanks for sharing Shrink. The journey is definitely the best teacher, however, it can come at a price. I'm definitely with you on the used market, let somebody else take the hit. Driving my 83 decibel speakers(not the most efficient) with a tube integrated is no problem on my end. 44 watts per channel in triode, I typically dont go past the 11am mark, plenty of everything. Want i found is, do your homework thoroughly, if you rush into it, you may fall short. The other half of the equation is knowing what you want. Finally, when your happy with what you got, you gotta leave it alone, time to enjoy the music and the sound, the quality of the sound of the music is probably more important than the music itself. When it sounds so beautiful and realistic, it really starts to move you. Anyhoo, rock on Shrink! Merry Christmas brother.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

Thanks for the kind words.Merry Christmas to you as well🙏44 watts in triode is huge power.Rock on!

[@michaelmityok1001]

Yup wattage ratings are misleading, the spec that matters is CURRENT stated in amps, like my CODA S5.5 at 100 peak amps at rated output per channel yet "only" 50/100/200 watts per channel at 8/4/2 ohms.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

well I agree partially especially with class a but I have been fooled by big numbers like that before with anemic results.In the end its how the watts are tuned as amps can sound so different.Getting them into ours rooms is the only true answer in the end.Like those class a/b kinkis I had the integrated and monos.Both anemic with big numbers no real bass extension or slam.Left me wanting so out the door they went

[@guyboisvert66]

@@greatlookinglandscap Yup, current capacity, zobel network "tuning", etc. Quality load invariant Class D has big advantages. Here, the Nilai 500 DIY Stereo has complete control and effortlessly handling Ryan R-610.

[@shankararora8117]

Great video! Agree and watts in and of itself can often be misleading. I have a Burmester 082 integrated which puts out 100watts/8ohms, but drives my ART floor-standers at 92db really well. Used to have a Naim Uniti Nova at 80 watts and it also punched way above its class.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

Thanks for your input! its helpful to others.Yes Naim power is something else.As I say buy used and get em into your room.Save expensive mistakes.Merry Christmas!

[@shankararora8117]

@ same here and I mostly buy my gear used or ex demo; just the way it is. Do your research and buy off margin. I know it’s debatable, but got to do what’s right for you. Naim is great but it does have a sound, it does some things sublimely well, but limited in other areas. Merry Xmas to you mate!

[@greatlookinglandscap]

@@shankararora8117Hey you too brother.Your comments and experience is always welcome here my friend!

[@ccdccd8615]

I think part of the challenge with bass is that what we want in terms of bass response from an amp is different from what we want in the rest of the frequency range. This is part of the reason why I decided to bi-amp my speakers. Right now, I am waiting to get my woofer amp from Buckeye which is not exactly regarded as an “audiophile” amp maker. But here is the thing. All high quality Class D amps are based on the latest Hypex amp module, the latest Purifi amp module or the latest ICE module. Buckeye builds amps to order using either the Hypex or Purifi amp modules. You can pick the latest modules if you so choose. I chose the latest (2nd generation) Purifi amp modules. That gives me over 400 watts per channel into 4 ohms for my dual 15” woofers and a ridiculously high damping factor. The case isn’t fancy, but who cares!!! Given that this amp will only be working from 200 hz to 20 hz (and honestly, I’d be happy with an in-room response of 35 hz), this is really overkill. The much harder decision was the amp for the tweeter/midrange. Knowing how much power is needed is complicated by the fact that the tweeter is 109 db efficient, but the midrange is 88 db efficient. A flea tube amp with 5 watts could power the tweeter, but the tweeter has to be attenuated to match the midrange. The other factor is that I don’t have to worry about pushing the midrange as it is only playing from 1200 hz to 200hz. I am estimating that the power needed for this combo is around 20-30 watts per channel, but honestly, I really won’t know until I start plugging amps into the speaker. The final consideration is the room. When I started this project, I thought the speakers would be going into an “L” shaped room with 8’ ceilings. This room was fairly large. By luck, another room opened up because we replaced our guest bedroom furniture with a Murphy bed. The good news is that it is a rectangular room and being in the basement with no windows, is fairly dead. The not so good news is that the room is 14’ and change by 17’ and change with 7’ ceilings. My speakers are almost 5’ tall. My best guess is that the speakers will be on the border of what the room can handle and they will never be pushed by the size of THIS room! lol! So I have a lot of information about my speakers and the room, but it still is not clear what that information translates into in terms of power requirements. I’m starting with a relatively affordable amp that should have more than enough power, the Galion A75. I was attracted to this amp because I am a fan of dual mono designs and because review have been uniform is indicating that this is a SS amp for people who like tubes. I was looking for those characteristics because the tweeter is a horn and the synergy between tubes and horns is well established. I’m pretty confident it will be enough power. I’m less confident about the synergy of the amp with my tweeter/midrange. And I still will not know what power tube or Class A amp could pair well with my speaker. On the plus side, the A75 is a relatively affordable amp ($1500). Making a mistake with a tube or Class A amp would likely be MUCH more painful.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

Thanks for the input.You are pretty dedicated.Me after decades I prefer the simplest system possible.I enjoy all the imperfections because I know and surrendered to the fact that its impossible for the brain to not be critical on any system once someone has crossed that imaginary line from so called hobbyist to audio obsession .I gave up and have a decent room.The bel canto e1x integrated serves my needs today.Merry Christmas and enjoy what we have and worry at all about what we dont.It is just a stereo at the end of the day

[@ccdccd8615]

@ The decisions are hard, the system is actually pretty simplistic: CD player and Roon Nucleus into a MiniDSP SHD (combo electronic crossover/DAC/preamp/room correction (Dirac) and streamer) into the amps (Buckeye Purifi Class D amp and Galion A75) to my bi-amped speakers (3-way compression horn/10” midrange/dual 15” woofers) which are open baffle.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

Cool! I love open baffle they have been here 7 years

[@ccdccd8615]

@@greatlookinglandscap Had the pleasure of listening to the Linkwitz Orion speakers back in the day and have been a fan of OB speakers ever since. They are especially attractive in the DIY speaker world because they are easier to build. It’s been nice to see a mini revival of interest in OB speakers recently. I think the path forward for OB speakers is probably hybrids which are OB on the top, but conventional ported/passive radiator for the woofers. Makes for a much smaller speaker with potentially better bass response.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

They feel much more natural than a box too me

[@Robert-id9jx]

I had a pair of Kliptch Belle model. I used a Hafler 500 that i built at 255 wpc. At 104db efficient they just rocked. No complaints.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

Sometimes we nail it.I should hope there was no issue there.Yes an example of efficient loving power.Merry Christmas!

[@guyboisvert66]

Hafler 500 & Klipsch, almost club/bar level power! I used the DH-500 when i was DJ'ing end of 80's, it was competing the Bryston 4B!

[@Robert-id9jx]

@guyboisvert66 I brought them to the beach and cranked them for a big party. They just rocked. Funny I then sold than amp to a guy running a DJ setup. He cut the mesh side out of the amp for more cooling.

[@petekutheis3822]

THe MC75s were very anemic with the Sonusfaber Olympica 1s. And subs didnt help. Bi amp with a Class D and a MArchand crossover and the slam and dynamics finally appeared (and kept the subs too).

[@greatlookinglandscap]

Nice.Thanks for sharing your experience! as I feel this is important info.Merry Christmas

[@guyboisvert66]

Tube amp: Added distortion, can clip a bit more. It can't control very well big bass physical movements and "looses" control easily, the bass may look "better" but it distorts a lot. Nope, a 22W tube won't "slam" a decent quality higher power transistor amp. Try Purifi / Hypex Nilai amp and you'll feel effortless, load invariant power. But if you're looking for distortion, both of them are very high fidelity and won't add or subtract anything. If it doesn't sound right, look elsewhere.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

Curious have you ever heard or owned an 845 SET amp.It definitely slammed here and drove most anything

[@greatlookinglandscap]

Thanks for the input! I've learned a lot in this journey. Merry Christmas to you.

[@guyboisvert66]

@@greatlookinglandscap Have a link for this amp?

[@guyboisvert66]

@@greatlookinglandscap Merry Christmas U2 !

[@greatlookinglandscap]

@@guyboisvert66sure this the one I owned and the 22 watt rate is so misleading as to what an 845 can do.It is insane and every audiophile has to experience.The replacement is called 845ia the link of the cult classic I owned for 7 years without any need to bias whatsoever .The reliability,build was just simply world class nothing could be built even close to what the cayin factory can produce.If you look at usa,canadian,uk etc of this this exact topology tube rectified,set,845 they start over 10k and go to 70k plus.It has to owned to be believed. www.stereophile.com/content/line-magnetic-audio-lm-518ia-integrated-amplifier

[@revelry1969]

Would you include that line magnetic chifi you had? I find more power the better. These 15w tube amps don’t get things loud enough for me. I listen 90-95

[@greatlookinglandscap]

No the Line magnetic was a very powerful and world class amplifier in every way.The power belied its rating.The cayin factory build some the best audio components in the world.The LM 518 was one of the greatest audio component I have ever owned.7 years didnt even need to rebias tubes and heard zero noise.The reliability was inbelievable.It was a gorgeous thank.Read up on the 518 theres a reason herb reichart of stereophile used it as his reference tube amp to compare other products at any cost against it.All audiophile need to experience this unit on there journey.

[@revelry1969]

@@greatlookinglandscap thanks buddy. I thought the Line Magnetic was chifi gear. But if you say it’s good…it’s good. You sold it?

[@greatlookinglandscap]

own it for seven years.Its served its purpose here and proved itself as world class in every way.It was time to recoup all funds I paid and go with lightweight cutting edge tech.It was 75 pds and 845 tube replacement is also not cheap.Maybe a possible repair down the road.It was time to quit while I was ahead.But I can attest its a very special product.The 518ia was and is still very sought after and built under original brothers ownership.The replacement 845ia is under different ownership.As for the current quality I cannot speak on as I have never owned.

[@terrywho22]

One of the things I've always liked about NAIM is that their specs are always conservative. If I were to come anywhere near the max output of my 50W NAIM power amp, either my neighbor or the cops would come knocking. My 35WPC Cayin EL34 amp was the same.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

agree 100% on both counts.Naim power different animal as ls tube power related to watt power.Video I think is import info for many

[@bigjay1970]

The room is so very important to consider when putting together a system.😬

[@greatlookinglandscap]

absolutely

[@guyboisvert66]

The places where you have the most distortion are the speakers and the room. Room may have nasty resonances and other defects affecting the end result a lot. The other problem: Industry pushed the idea that the more money you spend, the higher de fidelity. It's misleading!

[@greatlookinglandscap]

you can say that again.But sometimes we must learn the hard way.Nothing is perfect as at the end the day this hobby is just passing time.To think your going find some secret recipe for the perfect system is insane.Just enjoy the imperfections

[@geoffreydebrito7934]

Except for the very lucky, getting 'tricked' was always part of the journey... Especially now, since brick and mortars audio 'salons' are mostly limited to the big cities. Most of us have no choice but to rely on reviews, it's an inescapable reality.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

Well really learning the used market resale etc is an excellent tool and safer way to navigate though a deep sea of product

[@clickbeetle2720]

@@greatlookinglandscap 🖤ya, and sometimes what's not on the used market can be an indicator of user satisfaction too

[@greatlookinglandscap]

@@clickbeetle2720absolutely.Too good too sell

[@atcaleb]

Ive got a couple Ashly ftx2000 amps and there is no better place to start spending $ than the power. Source, power, or speakers? I say spend on power first- clean and reliable power. I can run little ProAc response 1 speakers or big Tyler Acoustic D1 speakers or anything in between and nothing has an impact on sound like the big power amps. Everything sounds better with big power and real headroom. AVR power is lame and has no headroom. Ive had all sorts of 100 or 200 watt amps like Classe or Hawk or Carver or Luxman or McInt or several others and nothing beats the bang from big amps with huge headroom. Tube amps are cool but lame as well, sorry I love them but no real grunt. Of coarse I never get close to using 1300 watts a channel from the Ashlys but having it on tap is HUGE to the ear. I play loud sometimes and never blew or cooked anything either. And yes, I used resistors to slow the fans down and quiet those Ashlys. They are fairly loud from the factory.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

Holy smokes.1300 ! rock n roll.Merry Christmas

[@kurthill7030]

That's because all amplifiers have Chinese part's if they are honest 😂😅😂😅

[@greatlookinglandscap]

well its part of the norm today

[@davepounds8924]

I personally would never spend a large amount of money on a piece of audio equipment that I couldn’t hear Reading spec sheets doesn’t necessarily tell me how it sounds Luckily my local shop sells used equipment and I’ve been able to hear anything I’m interested in

[@greatlookinglandscap]

yes gotta love used gear.Merry Christmas Dave

[@Ricky-cl5bu]

Thank you mr shrink 😊

[@greatlookinglandscap]

🙏Merry Christmas!

[@heywoodjablome5630]

Poor performance? No break-in? You can't really rate an audio component that hasn't been "seasoned". Have a great day.

[@greatlookinglandscap]

and you as well.Thats very true.I buy on used market and it doesnt take me very long to know exactly what I have.But it does take time.I have never really noticed significant breakin differences on electronics but have more so on speakers with drivers needing a while to get to full excursion