I've Gotten Bored of Realism in Graphics

Who is Ray and why does he keep tracing so many things, is he okay?
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[@NathanielBandy]

I got bored of realism in like 2015

[@NumbHydro]

Nathaniel Scuttlebug Bandy

[@John6-40]

Same. I've been harping about realism being boring for roughly 10 years, but I don't have an actual KZbin channel, so it's really just been an old man literally yelling at clouds. 😂

[@kayh.4114]

So down with that comment. But to be real, it´s the combination of "we make a cool game, therefore we make it realistic", and also the"lets make it violent, bloody, teenagercool".

[@EthiotendoEdits]

valid point

[@NTBXP1]

I go for japanese games for a reason no matter how people throw rocks at me.

[@nahumgardner]

It's not just the graphics, there's a lack of variety in the AAA space as well.

[@seriouskano2]

Which is in part because attempting photorealism is very expensive. If you need to sell x million units to break even, you can take much less risks. There is a reason why indie games are so interesting. They don't have to maximize their audience and can do whatever they want.

[@crestofhonor2349]

That's more because they try to appeal to everyone without letting their games be unique. They don't want something to be more niche

[@Benji-Lindz]

Amen to that. I'm more than a little burned out on third-person action games. They are all starting to look and feel the same to me.

[@joaobisgo]

Because of the focus in graphics. They gotta understand we don't wanna see a character's pores in detail anymore.

[@withoutthejuice7193]

If I had a dollar for every time a KZbin comment said the phrase “AAA”

[@josepass2563]

Doesn't help that these realistic looking games absolutely kill my storage too 😭

[@roberthaynes8830]

Ain't that the truth! 20TB onboard SSDs please, as standard!

[@shade20x64]

A lot of companies have lost sight of the fact that video games are fantasy. It's okay to be grounded in reality to some degree, but ultimately I want an experience, especially visually, that I can't have in real life. And I also don't want to sit through 10+ minutes of cinematics to get there.

[@crestofhonor2349]

I don't mind 10+ minutes of cinematics in RPGs. It all depends on the genre

[@shade20x64]

@@crestofhonor2349 Sure. But if I boot up an action game and have to wait through all of that just to get to play (or between levels), then I'll just play something else instead.

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@shade20x64 As I said, it depends on the genre. No one wants to sit through a 10+ minute cutscene in a 2D mario game and that makes sense. In persona people don't mind it because it's a story focused jRPG

[@shade20x64]

@@crestofhonor2349 Yeah, I agree with you. RPGs are a slow burn that are heavily story driven. Cinematics make sense there. But if I'm booting up, say, the new Shinobi game or something, I want to jump right into the action. At the very least, all cutscenes should be skippable. Often my game time is limited, and if I only have an hour or so to play a game, I don't want a significant chunk of that taken by just starting at the screen.

[@AdventuresAwait123]

*dull poorly written cinematics haha

[@psychicjellyfish9466]

Oh good, I thought I was the only one! Like, not to knock any of these games, but nowadays, it feels like titles all blend together at presentations like State of Play, where most games go for hyper-realism.

[@Bowser_Plush]

I think the biggest issue, is that more than anything, by making things super realistic you lose the artistic ability to show details that are not realistic. Of course I won’t blame the artist or designer as I have no doubt this is mostly a higher up demanding games look like this.

[@SuperFlashDriver]

Well that's where you start to step into uncanny valley and the computer can only get so far into a similar realism as real life that it hits a limit. And once it hits that limit, it's harder to go further than that. It's this reason back in 2012 that I've thought of having video game console include the option to install "Any" computer operating system, and have backwards compatibility with not only other video game company's consoles, but also video game accessories and controllers that you've purchased for the past 20+ years to work with modern consoles. It's also worth noting that I wish to use the console more than just gaming, as having a computer operating system built into the console gives me freedom to experiment with either Mac, Windows, or Linux operating systems to choose which ones I would prefer the most for things other than gaming. Plus, you can do emulation on a computer OS whereas a console OS, well, unless you put it into dev mode or hack/modify your console, it's going to be 100% impossible to do it in retail mode. But that's just me. I personally just want video games, and even movies, music, and TV shows, to just be "unique, experimental, different, and original" in order to continue new generations of entertainment in the next 475 years to come (2025 - 2500), even if many video game players in the 20th and 21st passed away from this world/planet earth. That's my two cents if you ask me.

[@NineHundredDollarydoos]

Definitely. The best example of that I can think of is the 'live action' Lion King movie. Their insistence on making it as realistic looking as possible ended up absolutely gutting all of the charm and emotion from the entire movie.

[@pockystyx4087]

I'm still sad we didn't go down the big budget celshaded timeline

[@Shibanu_]

Or the everyone tries to innovate on their art styles timeline.

[@JsYTA]

At least this isn't the timeline where bloom stuck around.

[@fernie-fernandez]

@@Shibanu_Too bad we went with a more generic, modern anime graphics than the more…hard-drawn design.

[@nokomomo861]

We live in the worst cyberpunk dystopia timeline. We don’t even have cool holograms or awesome prosthetics. We got iphones with no headphone jacks and full priced games that don’t work in every aspect except the cash shop (which shouldn’t even be in a fully priced game)

[@Shadow650Nintendero]

Persona? Zelda? Borderlands? Xenoblade? Dragon Quest?

[@artsyomni]

I think the unfortunate reality is that the silent majority of people in the west DO prefer realism. The west has just been trained to associate stylization with younger demographics. Just look at how live action marvel movies like Spider-Man make more money than the animated spiderverse movies even when the spiderverse movies are just much better stories with more emotional resonance and artistic appeal.

[@Toonrick12]

Even though Marvel movies has as much animation as those that are marketed as animated.

[@John6-40]

I don't think that's a great comparison. People want to look at people in movies. Not animation. Despite there being some CGI in those movies, you're still looking mostly at real people. Games are games. A bit more open to pure fantasy. You control the character after all. I do agree with you that the majority wants realistic graphics, though. Unfortunately. Otherwise, big corporations wouldn't steer us this way.

[@mostafabalboul3966]

Seeing you comment here in particular, makes me wish for an AU where your kind of stylization became a staple in the West. Well, maybe Rollin' Rascal will be a step towards that!

[@roberthaynes8830]

Yes, I remember when the new Zelda game on the Gamecube was revealed to be a cel-shaded, "kiddie" looking game in The Wind-Waker. It baffled me the disdain that people had for it. Of course it's a style that hasn't dated and most people love the game, and look, now. I know that the Gamecube presentation used a realistic styled Zelda demo which, I guess, led people to think that the next Zelda game would look realistic, so there's that. But, yes, Wind-Waker was viewed as being too "kiddie" at the time.

[@doofuscawt]

spiderverse is BO RANG i meant boomerang sorry

[@cg_spiritedensemble]

For me it's less realism in games, & more the oversaturation of a specific genre or style in the general public eye. I'd be feeling tired if it was cell-shading that was oversaturated in the public eye, & so on. What AAA gaming seems to be missing a lot of is the variety of genres & styles. This is why indie gaming has taken off as much as it has.

[@QnjtGWonQNqVsbYyzjx4]

If every game play the same, it is a natural decision to make it look the same

[@roberthaynes8830]

Good point.

[@NetBattler]

Bruh indie games also use cel shading style for their game..

[@bendito247]

I’m glad you posted this on Summer Game Fest day cause oh boy are we gonna experience more realism-fatigue at that event today. Edit: Glad to say I was wrong!

[@LangeManGlenn]

I was postively surprised with the number of non-realism looking games. Say what you will about this year's event, I like that more time than usual went into indies and their more unique looking games.

[@hammylove821]

It was mostly slop anyways, regardless of artstyle.

[@unlinkingduck]

It’s so nice to see someone completely get it, this is exactly how I’ve felt about the industry at large recently. I can barely remember most titles from the Game Awards or the State of Play, they just feel so the same, so unique titles like Astro Bot stick out all the more, hope to see more games take that chance

[@jacksonlanterns3731]

I feel like the brown filter was the beginning of the end. Don’t get me wrong, the PS3 had some great games. But this was when I first started feeling the change. Everyone rushed to try and make the next more realistic game. And as graphics and technology improved, the further and further we got from anything creative, artistic, or imaginative. And the Sypia Filter was a HUGE contributor to that, I think.

[@PokeDeses]

Honestly the rush was there as soon as 3D graphics were a possibility. But it was still a time where both limitations and advancements made games look very different from each other and instantly visibly impressive when a feat was achieved. The brown filter certainly homogeneized things a lot, at this point budgets had skyrocketed and AAA publishers were starting to push for the safe route, and it's also the point where diminishing returns hit. It no longer took a couple years or even just a few months to see a noticeable difference in fidelity, it now took years for games to be so far apart in their looks for the difference to be easily noticeable. And that distance is only going to keep growing and growing.

[@N8-Squared]

Just a reminder, Hifi rush was not a small game, and in general, artstyles are not the be all and end all of how much time and effort games take to make. Cartoony games can take years and realistic games can be made... well not super quickly but still. Sadly, I am pretty sure that depending on the size of the game (length not storage) Astro Bot may be one of those "Looks cartoony but took years to make" games.

[@TsukuneD]

It's true. Ask the team behind Guilty Gear Xrd and Strive. They've said that to achieve the phenomenal visual presentation that the series is now known for they had to actively fight against what their software wanted to do. Manually break models, delete interpolation frames, manually repaint shadows and effects.

[@Benji-Lindz]

I'm sure it still took years to make these games, but the time and, especially, the resources it took to make Astro Bot and Hi-Fi Rush pale in comparison to what it takes to make games like The Last of Us: Part 2, God of War, and Horizon. I would not be surprised to find out that Astro Bot and Hi-Fi Rush had less than half of the budget that the other realistic AAA titles took to make.

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

Keep in mind: Astro Bot is basically a tech demo made into a full game. That's not a bad thing. It just means that enough of the right people loved Astro's Playroom, the pre-installed PS5 game, to justify a new title in the series, and that there likely is a smaller team making it on a smaller budget than the realistic AAA games.

[@N8-Squared]

@@TsukuneD I actually love that.

[@N8-Squared]

@@Benji-Lindz Yeah true, but thats still not a small amount.

[@roskiart8750]

This rant is a little over the place: I can get behind the sentiment, but not only I think the problem lies deeper, some of the points I disagree with or I flat out find to be bad takes. For starters, ANY visual style being overdone feels tiring after a while. There's a reason why some indies get flak for being "yet another 8bit platformer" and I've CERTAINLY seen more than a few JRPGs that feel like the most derivative anime slob and completely and utterly blend together. Realism is just the prevalent example in the AAA sphere. AND EVEN THEN, it's mostly HOW said realism is used, as well as things like the color design and lighting choices. It's like how the 360/PS3 era was all about brown military shooters, it's just in this gen things lean into desaturated colors and futuristic aesthetics. There's a reason why FromSoft games still look striking, they have strong, conscious art design choices and the comparatively realistic textures and lighting only enhance those. About the development costs skyrocketing, there's no really a room for disagreement in said visuals ballooning budgets and production requirements. But while the biggest offender, it's not just the ONLY contributing problem: production scope in general has gone out of control. EVERY major AAA game has to own the next 100 hours of your life. Which brings me to the larger issue: the artstyles aren't the ONLY thing that feels homogenous but the whole experience they're aiming at. The games feel samey because they play samey, and aim for similar gameplay goals. For an easy and kinda cheap comparison, the identity of Splatoon couldn't be farther apart from Zelda's. Same with Mario, or Metroid, or Fire Emblem. They're all different genres, artstyles and even to an extent demographics. Meanwhile, God of War and The Last of Us, in spite of being technically different game genres, have some overlap in identity by both aiming to be a "cinematic experience" (and to a lesser extent by also being both about vengeance and angry dads). That's just a result of Sony effectively putting most of their eggs in one basket. If it's not that it's hero shooters or Destiny clones, and so on. On that front too, the sad reality is that some of this is conditioned by audiences... and audiences can bee pretty superficial and uncritical. I don't want to throw anyone in particular under the bus, but there's a reason some people might not try an animated series/movie but will watch the live action remake. There's a cultural conditioning that seriousness or legitimacy can ONLY be achieved by visual realism, which is plain absurd but that's what it is. And to be clear, visual realism DOES have a place. There's stories and tones it benefits the most; survival horror comes to mind. Anyone who throws it out wholesale is missing the fact there is a place for it(something I'm sure Daniel also agrees with to an extent), which shouldn't be in contradiction with variety being the spice of life. I disagree about the 30 FPS, though. In ANY game that requires precise timing, a lower framerate does feel more awkward and CAN be noticed (even though the most important thing its how consistent it is through the game). And for anyone who thinks it doesn't matter... there's a reason your beloved Sakurai goes out of his damn way to make every Smash installment run at 60 FPS. It does matter the world for certain game genres. Lastly, raytracing gets a bad rap: it makes the life for developers easier(and is also an underutilized tool that could make for interesting game experiences and not just fancier lighting)

[@roskiart8750]

@@The_Admiral_Angel Which doesn't make so many Indie platformers and JRPGs any less visually non-distinctive if you can argue other genres suffer from stylistic similitudes visually. Reread what I actually said: "For starters, ANY visual style being overdone feels tiring after a while." Those genres share visual tropes to different extents, so if you feel Shooters look samey it's because there's a lot of shooters that have aesthetic overlap. And even then it'd be flat out ignorant and silly of you to claim that, say, any Doom game looks the same as Call of Duty. With survival horror games, if you think Fatal Frame looks the same as Resident Evil, you have flat out not played or even freaking looked at Fatal Frame and you won't convince me otherwise. My claim isn't JRPGs as a whole look the same, or indie platformers. Not in the slightest: I wouldn't confuse Shin Megami Tensei IV with Bravely Second, or Shovel Knight with Infernax. But there's games I'd DEFINITELY confuse for each other because there is a lot of overlap in visual tropes, color palettes and character design conventions. And to claim there isn't because you're biased in favor of them over the genres you claim to be worse offenders would be flat out disingenuous.

[@TreasureBoxReviews]

It’s such a shame, and this chase for higher and higher production values is the reason we haven’t seen a new Naughty Dog or Sucker Punch game and are already half way through the generation. Major studios we got trilogies from on ps3 are now lucky to release one game a generation.

[@roberthaynes8830]

Or, how about we re-release The Last of Us Parts 1 and 2, along with Uncharted 4, and Uncharted The Lost Legacy again - maybe nobody will notice that Naughty Dog haven't released anything new (and, supposedly, half-way through the life cycle of the PS5!).

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

Crash Bandicoot was better under Naughty Dog but they dropped the ball focusing on realistic games with the Uncharted series.

[@Kingdom850]

@@Adamtendo_player_1 They never owned Crash, but they still own Jak and Daxter.

[@staticshock4239]

Honestly when i think about it, my favorite games this current generation all have a distinct art style. Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, Street Fighter 6, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, Hi Fi Rush, and Tekken 8 all have a distinct art style and still have visually impressive graphics.

[@Shibanu_]

I want to shoutout a game that is slipping under peoples radars and has such cool graphics and looks amazing. The game is called "doodle adventure of chameleon".

[@vianabdullah2837]

One of my favourite games visually is Wario Land: The Shake Dimension. It has such a beautiful hand-drawn artstyle that has rarely been replicated since.

[@kap1618]

Sadly, being on the wii killed that sub series. Shake it needs a switch port.

[@madnessarcade7447]

15:52 one could argue that three houses tried to be more realistic and engage tried to be more campy

[@guardianrandy]

I think there's a time and place for some level of realism, like in Resident Evil, but I agree that we need variety. I think it's why I often play older games from the 90s and 00s more often than modern titles because I like seeing the different presentations and approaches to storytelling.

[@crestofhonor2349]

I can understand this but I don't want to hear "graphics aren't important, just gameplay" argument. Graphics are always important and same goes for gameplay. Nintendo understands this and pretty much every developer and publisher too. How you visually present your game is often the first impressions your player has and if it looks bad it will turn people off even if the game itself is good. Realism is one style and same goes for cel shaded, hand drawn, or pixel art. You choose what best suits your game and you do it well. There are poor ways to do stylization that end up hurting the game's presentation instead of helping. Of course gameplay matters but the type of gameplay will differ from genre to genre. Whether it's as basic as a text adventure or visual novel or a massively complex turn based tactical RPG, everything has it's appeal

[@terriermonisgod]

outside japan there is probably a bit stigma of enjoying things with "kiddy artstyle". but that is slowly changing

[@WolvesbaneNetwork]

"I like performance over graphics" "I want even less frames" I'm sorry so do you want good frame rates or not?

[@Wesmoen]

I tapped out when he said, "it doesn't matter your eyes get used to it" Choose one man!

[@thegreatjman1999]

unrelated to the video but it's crazy how I immediately recognized the hideout song from scarlet nexus I haven't played that game in years

[@gameliking]

thank you for this comment i was going insane trying to remember where this song was from. one of the games i thought of was this but i thought i was wrong

[@geofatic]

Dang. Daniel legit used an art example that I recently learned about from Crash Course Art History. Respect

[@EvernightStudio]

I finally made practical use of those Art History classes at my job!

[@Azaurus1]

This why i own a switch and steam deck. Chasing graphics has gotten dull.

[@Blackfire_2022]

Realism is like candy. I love it, but i get sick if i have too much. A great art style is like a pizza bar. You can make any kind of pizza amd never have enough cause every kind is different

[@Froggydoo251]

My thoughts on the topic of 30fps paper mario ttyd at 11:00 - I, and many people, have a motion sickness/nausea issue, where the higher the framerate, the lower risk of nausea. It's not just framerate, but also camera angle, how close it is to the character, how fast/slow you move the camera, etc.. I have vivid memories of trying to play spyro reignited trilogy on both pc and console, and console was a NAUSEA fest with how close the camera is and how the game runs at 30fps. Even on pc where it runs at 60fps, I still needed to install flawless widescreen so that spyro didn't take up a third of the screen. It's happened to me with so many games that when a game is confirmed 30fps and not 60, I just think of how I'm gonna get nauseous this time, or how I'll need to dump it to pc to mod it and make it run better(rip Yuzu). Having played up until the start of chapter 8, the 30fps isnt much of an issue due to it being turn based (sometimes it drops like with the atomic boo or 7 crystal stars spinning cutscene), but I still value 60fp MINIMUM since it reduces my chance of not being able to play a game for more than half an hour without getting sick. I understand your sentiment of "60fps snobs need to stop complaining about 30fps games, just enjoy it" but from an accessibility aspect, it's not about how it runs, it's about how it feels, and I as well as many people just have to either suck it up with the nausea, mod the games, or just never get the chance to enjoy games I would otherwise enjoy.

[@SonofMrPeanut]

Funny thing about your use of A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte: The Impressionist movement that led to said work (a Neo-Impressionist painting) was at least in part a response to early photography.

[@Sara-pk8wv]

even anime cell shaded style will be boring if it's over used

[@vaggos5125]

I completely agree and also there is the fact that I can't focus anymore on the image that is displayed... there is so much detail.. and then I get tired easily. Maybe a "next gen" aesthetic with detail in just the right places is the best way to go.

[@heroic_teddy]

PREACH! Edit: More discussions are great! I'm all for them. I LOVED this train of thought video, Daniel! Passionate and something I think a good amount of us are feeling! And I loved the analogy with the art museum!

[@lucky.plushy]

7:42 I know it's just an analogy, but I felt the pointillism comment is unwarranted. Like what did they do..... (Also kinda silly since "a bunch of dots" can also describe pixel art)

[@supernocommentarygameplayhd]

My man went on a rant about how he only uses performance mode and that 4K30 isn't good enough on other systems, proceeds to say that anyone complaining about 30fps in an RPG with strict action command timings has no soul. Huh. Could he be a bit of a Nintendo fanboy, perhaps?

[@Shibanu_]

The Playstation Presentation wasn't all that great but the Guerilla Collective Presentation was amazing. I got 15 Games on my Wishlist just from that.

[@stephencheney9811]

Day of the Devs today was soooo much better than the SGF opening showcase.

[@kevinstrident]

A 10-minute video with some solid wisecracks is the sweet spot.

[@PikachuGamerSMT]

I think it’s time I play every Astro Bot game that has been released so far

[@JonnyLikesGames87]

I played the VR game on PS4 and it’s genuinely delightful.

[@thetoondevil]

I don't hate realism, I just feel the art style has oversaturated the medium. As an artists myself, I love seeing unique art forms. Growing up, I could tell what art was made by what company. 90s Capcom was a huge inspiration for me, and I was kinda saddened how their art style changed from over the top anime to realism.

[@sammalone7881]

I'm more burnt out by generic anime jrpgs .

[@TedWilder]

I didn't understand back then, but Miyazaki was right. "Anime was a mistake" There just isn't that much difference in styles anymore and when I see an anime or anime styled game that REALLY has its own style, I have no choice but to be impressed.

[@francisquebachmann7375]

​@@TedWilderyou do realize that Miyazaki really didn't say it. It was a mistranslation.

[@lametrain9667]

The video feels all over the place but I fully agree with the underlying point.

[@Eminster]

Are you guys going to do another guess that track episode?

[@lopeo2324]

8:05 To be honest, the piece on the right looks like something anybody could draw holding the shift key in mspaint to draw lines, and then using the bucket tool. If I had to compare it to a game, it would be the equivalent of unity asset flips.

[@Hobo_X]

I'm glad you specifically called out realism, and not just graphics in general. Because I 100% agree, but then I think about how I wish Nintendo would invest a little more in their hardware. I mean, can you imagine if the switch 2's storage speeds end up being too slow? Once you get used to these fast load times, they REALLY stand out. And if a console coming out in 2025 that could potentially last another 7 years still is making us wait on loading screens, then well... The just isn't acceptable. I want Nintendo to put at least _semi_ -competitive hardware in their next console, not for realistic graphics, but more immersive worlds in stylized graphics they're known for. Imagine if BOTW/TOTK ran at 60 fps and also had a draw distance significantly extended outward instead of just a few steps ahead, and on top of all that warping around loaded in under a second. That's truly next gen.

[@saiyanscaris6530]

considering the console wars is at a point where people are now saying nintendo and the switch have won it by barely trying with stuff like that and the games you can probably guess

[@giganticmoon]

@@saiyanscaris6530They try with the games though. They have exclusives, and you don’t need ultra hardware to win a war.

[@heavydonkeykong5190]

Nintendo wins by just seemingly not caring much what the other guys are doing. "Wins by doing absolutely nothing" to truly compete and instead focusing on their own bubble.

[@saiyanscaris6530]

@@heavydonkeykong5190 and it worked

[@John6-40]

Yeah 60 fps has always been the standard. Switch failed hard in that regard. Great concept. Great games. Terrible performance, particularly on 3rd party games, but also on some 1st party games. A more powerful Switch will be the perfect console, imo.

[@robertcopter5127]

Finally, someone is saying what I've been feeling for so long.

[@SpaniardNL]

Artstyle over realism. Although realism can be a good fit for certain style of games. But artstyle can easily triumph over realism.

[@DamienThimons-rv1wj]

Oh wow thank goodness that someone else out there noticed That the art part of video games was fading out of existence.

[@tro_celli]

As a fellow aging millennial, I am 100% in agreement with this take. We’re definitely seeing diminishing returns with realism in graphical fidelity, and the cost of game development is quickly ballooning to unsustainable amounts. Unfortunately, as we’ve seen with the continued live-service gold rush, executive and shareholder expectations are completely divorced from reality. Gaming is probably too big to fail, but something is going to have to give soon. We can’t go on like this forever.

[@BeIlG]

It's so bizarre to go from the PS4 era where they complimented indie games like journey for existing. To even get closer to being art over "a game". Highly stylized and interesting game experiences. Wish this was still the push.

[@The_Admiral_Angel]

Unfortunately, most of us gamers are in the minority here when it comes to this. If the graphics are not like a realistic cinematic movie, then other gamers not interested. Down to the point where any game with vibrant colors are described as kiddie or babyish. Off topic though, Wind Waker is over two decades old, and it's artstyle is STILL gorgeous to this day. Games with realistic visuals have their audiences, but variety is the spice of life. Edit: I do think that Daniel is a little too harsh on 3D Mario, though. I do agree that the visuals aren't as experimental as the Mario spin-offs or Zelda titles, but at least it still offers tons of fun and whacky worlds to explore. Super Mario Odyssey has you explore so many different kingdoms where the inhabitants are either floating top hat ghosts, eco-friendly robots, normal-looking people, and sentient forks with chef hats. Weirdness is a huge part of Mario's identity, and Odyssey and especially Wonder excel in that. Give me more of that over whatever the next hyper-realistic cinematic video game on the PS5 or Series X is going to be.

[@saiyanscaris6530]

problem is variety is something the higher ups dont want to try anymore

[@lightdarksoul2097]

I remember the "contraversy" Spiderman ps4 had about people being made over puddles. Some people are crazy

[@tountoes1677]

If we were in the minority Breath of the Wild and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe wouldn't have become some of the best selling games of all time. A lot of people don't care for realism as much as you might think.

[@Alorso_]

@@tountoes1677 If anything it shows that we've reached a point to where graphics are good enough, there's definitely a shift towards more people wanting color fun visuals in games like the recent Astro Bot trailer for example

[@The_Admiral_Angel]

@@tountoes1677 That seems to be the case. I just have the unfortunate mindset of living in an area where games with movie-like realism are peak design over games with creative and colorful art styles.

[@j_corb]

Really well said. I remember writing an article about this back on the 360 and PS3 generation. I feel like it's a big reason I'm so fond of the Dreamcast, Sonic Team was making stuff that was super vibrant. To me, most games all just look like the first Unreal tech demo we were shown. It was technically impressive, but it was ultimately a nothing-burger without any identity. Because it wasn't a game, it wasn't intended to have an art-direction; it was an engine, expecting devs to bring their own art-direction to the game.

[@xcrysizz8781]

Artstyle > Realistic graphics

[@sunwukong5518]

There needs to be variety.

[@b1g_m00n]

graphics-wise, I've found that the further you get from your predecessors, the further you get from reality. the more life-like something *seems*, the more the gap between it and real life becomes clear. like, the more it advances, the more the things it lacks become apparent. I'm glad you brought up Spider-Man PS4. I finally managed to play it last year, and I had as much fun with it as everyone. and then I activated the Vintage suit. suddenly that beautifully realized Manhattan looked *incredibly drab*. it would have been *so much more fun* to live out that entire adventure with the comics visuals. I wanted the whole world to look like that. but that's a chance larger game makers will never take.

[@bjbovia]

I'm glad you put what we've all been feeling into words.

[@bernnymwamba7522]

Because « gamers » think stylized = cheap so they don’t want to spend more than $15 on tht kind of game, no matter how cool it looks. And because « gamers » think stylized and cellshaded look childish so they don’t want to be playing « baby games ». I don’t want to judge people on their preferences but these type of mentalities are tiring and so hurtful to game development as a whole

[@DavesChaoticBrain]

Do you have a similar video for how dull and repetitive "Stylized" games look? Or how "pixelated graphics" are so 1989? Cause I want more realism, and less of those. It's not realism fatigue you have, it's design homogenization fatigue that you have. You're tired of things looking the same as all the other things.

[@Drstrange3000]

This should be top comment.

[@BoxoSpoons]

When I've taken a step back, I've realized a big reason why I'm excited as I am for Nintendo making a graphical generation leap with the Switch 2 is because their devs will probably make much more interesting use of that fidelity than most other developers have been.

[@Drstrange3000]

This is exactly why I'm excited for it too

[@joshnickerson83]

I was bored with realistic graphics back in 2005.

[@fernie-fernandez]

Ever played Deadly Premonition…!?

[@guguig9746]

Thank you for this video ! I'm behind on uploads because live is busy, but I'm slowly catching up and loving it!

[@thedembot]

I’m loving this - let’s see more creativity in the AAA space!!

[@rus.t]

I think it's a cycle. We went from pixels to 2D cartoony to 3D cartoony to 3D realism with yellow-brown filter to 3D realism with reflections to pixels again. Stylized 2D is returning and the cycle continues.

[@robertbarker5802]

This is either the second or maybe third time I've heard a youtuber complain about HD-2D being over done or getting old. A whole five games have used this look so far. FIVE. And it's already time to throw it in the trash apparently. There's a whole two more games in this style that we know of so far. It's been a one to two a year art style in use so far including the two DQ games upcoming. I do not understand the complaint.

[@pockettwo]

dont you know its only bad because big studios do it?

[@mgbrad5018]

Throughout the past generation and a half, I honestly have not cared about graphics unless it is truly jaw dropping. I care wayyyyyyy more about an art direction/style and gameplay then I do "realistic graphics".

[@crestofhonor2349]

So you do care about graphics, just of a different style than realism. You prefer your graphics to be less realistic and more stylized. Art direction is a part of the graphics pipeline and realism is still an art style

[@TheClyde1993]

Great Video. Hope things change for the better. Starting with the new Astro Bot game.

[@dinar8749]

10:55 cringe nintendo manchild moment. Imagine actually wanting worse gameplay and frame rate.

[@lucashoikers]

Exactly. No excuse even as TTYD was 60fps originally

[@dinar8749]

@@lucashoikers Agreed. The frame rate downgrade, and imo bad soundtrack made me skip this. It's a shame because TTYD is one of my favorite games of all time, but this remake does not respect the original.

[@Deliveredmean42]

@@dinar8749 I thought you can get the original soundtrack in the game tho? Tho the framerate downgrade sound something obviously done for totally not for a new Nintendo hardware coming in the future.

[@Deliveredmean42]

@@lucashoikers You know they did that so they get people a reason for their new hardware.

[@dinar8749]

@@Deliveredmean42 I know, but that's not a selling point. I can just play the og whenever. If the new soundtrack was actually good and respected the original musics' direction instead of those kazoos and generic big band jazz then it would be different. I don't believe the frame rate is going to be fixed for the switch 2. Nintendo just doesn't care. They haven't cared about power and graphics for about 2 decades now.

[@CrashtoHedgehog]

I experienced the "realism fatigue" as you put it over a decade ago. Although in my case it's more just repeated artsyle, I think I hated the overuse of the anime artstyle just as much if not more. I don't know if I'd say I really got over it, but eventually you just start playing what you want, with the visuals barely even being a factor.

[@Michirin9801]

I got bored of realism in video game graphics 20 years ago, and I'm still in my 20s!

[@MegaManNeo]

You didn't miss much. It's good for racing games and sports games probably. RPGs and platformers tho? Love colorful worlds with a comic style.

[@roskiart8750]

@@MegaManNeo Two words: Survival Horror

[@MegaManNeo]

@@roskiart8750 In my entire life I played Telltale TWD S1 and Resident Evil 2 Remake. Not my cup of coffee but sure, I can see how it could improve the genre especially in VR.

[@roskiart8750]

@@MegaManNeo And yet RE is more sucessful than pretty much every platformer that isn't named Mario and most of RPGS. Let alone there's OTHER RPGS that DO benefit from the realism too(like Dark Souls, and sorry but there's a place for these games) I say this fully understanding and mostly agreeing with the complaint, as a 2D animator myself who is deeply frustrated with the Disney Live Action remakes, specially by any and every person who thinks this gives those stories any semblance of additional legitimacy(as if animation embracing cartoonniness deminishes it's legitimacy as a storytelling tool). But being dismissive of it as an artistic choice because it's not part of your game diet of preference is not the most elegant position to take. And those aren't your specific words but it feels like that's the underlying point.

[@ScorePN]

We need more claymation games ✊️

[@juliossan5118]

Why are Nintendo gamers like this? There are hundreds of games that don't go for realistic graphics! Just go play those! You never see film nerds saying things like "ugh so tired of live action movies, where are all the cartoons and anime?" There's plenty out there broski.

[@lightdarksoul2097]

Because it affects other games. the bigger budgets spent on the games affect the whole industry. Because games are so realistic, it makes all the games take much longer to come out which means less games and they all have to make much more. That made the prices of games increase for everyone. And then you have the issue of people being afraid to join the industry when companies that make even good games arent enough like Tango.

[@juliossan5118]

@@lightdarksoul2097 There are more games coming out now than there ever have been. If some games want to take longer to make, then go for it. Would rather that than be overly bombarded by 20 AA budget cartoony games coming out every month. Both realistic and unrealistic looking games succeed, and both fail. Some obviously gotta figure their budgets out it they aren't sure the demand won't be there but other than that the balance now is fine.

[@Alorso_]

This isn't just Nintendo gamers saying this, look at which games on the recent State of Play people responded to the most, there's a growing demand for more different looking games, it's simply a matter of too many AAA looking the same and blending together, there needs to be variety

[@oceanelambert2507]

oh don't worry film nerds are always complaining about something ! they're complaining about movies being too dark (not in terms of tone, in terms of the image), and it's basically the same idea than with photorealism in games, this idea of using one specific style as a default, not considering if the work really benefits from it or not, and just using it because everyone else does it. i do agree with you that there are many many games that go with very different styles. indie games are a blessing for this ! but i also think it's true that there are aaa games out there that choose photorealism for no other reason that "that's how it's gotta look". and it's kinda sad lol

[@GameTimeNLL]

"Why are nintendo gamers always like this?" Ruins anything you say after that.

[@Benji-Lindz]

The last game that genuinely blew my mind with realism was The Last of Us: Part 2. For that game, it worked because the story and characters are rooted in reality. Even then, the thrill of playing a game that looks that real wears off pretty quick while you're playing it. Every game since then hasn't captured my attention with realism. On the other hand, I'm 100 hours into Persona 5: Royal, and I am still shocked time and time again by how incredible the art direction is. That's a game that came out in 2016, a cross-gen release with the PS3 and PS4, and it is still one of the most enjoyable games to look at and experience.

[@FreeTheTaint]

I'm tired of characters being made purposely uglier than their actors

[@fernie-fernandez]

At least MK1 broke traditions, complete with Megan Fox…

[@GoeTeeks]

The more companies strive for realism, the more imagination goes to die. One needn't look further than comparing art style and animations of the Disney Live Action movies compared to their animated counterparts to figure that out.

[@luxdalet]

I agree with all of your points. I got that fatigue mid generation of ps4. Launch title ps4 games, and nintendo games late on Wii U's life were the prettiest "realistic" visuals in my opinion. And to a certain extent, I am honestly worried that the next nintendo console might get the company with same issues of development for "higher fidelity" that xbox and playstation have... I am perfectly happy with what the Switch can output, and the rate that devs have been outputting to the console.

[@cwega2463]

astro bot looks incredible. but the £60 price tag is a bit jarring. it’s $60 in America. why do companies scale prices so awfully.

[@Feroror]

America always wins in the price department and yet Americans are always the ones complaining about prices LMAO

[@dane1647]

Maybe we win because we complain????

[@Feroror]

@@dane1647 it’s not working politically though 😩

[@saiyanscaris6530]

@@Feroror americans nowadays want everything to be cheap as possible. just watch how the election goes and youll see why to the people being a criminal means jack shit if they see said bad person as the only way the economy gets fixed

[@LangeManGlenn]

My biggest issue is people who say that anything not going for realism means it's automatically "bed grefix".

[@GameTimeNLL]

Those people are mostly just philistines.

[@marcuselias4412]

I just can't play games that use 'good graphics' as a replacement for style and readability. I don't know what I was looking at anymore, I'm too old lol. Im' too used to how older cartoons and games would have higher fidelity on objects you were meant to look at or interact with, while background stuff was a more muted color, out of focus, etc. Now, everything on the screen is bloomed to 300% and is trying to grab your attention. It's way too much constant visual stimulation, and everything becomes noise. That, and almost every game that's trying to be a cinematic experience just... sucks. Oh, and for some reason - everything looks like plastic now? I don't get that. Everything is too shiny and perfect.

[@Spacething7474]

We never should've evolved into high-definition. not even just for graphics, but for video games too! (and other video formats like movies and tv shows).

[@mechashadow]

Evolution is inevitable whether we like it. I just wish Iwata's methodology permeated wider than just Nintendo and indies but sadly..

[@markellhawthorne2921]

This is one of the worst takes I've ever seen.

[@Spacething7474]

@@mechashadow which is why standard definition pillarboxing should've never went out of fashion

[@Spacething7474]

@@markellhawthorne2921 how so?

[@roskiart8750]

​@@Spacething7474 Because technology evolving isn't solely about your entertainment. There's benefits to high definition that can be taken advantage of in sciences and such, for starters.

[@galaxystarroad]

21 yrs old here and realism isn't what drives me in in any game, rather art itself

[@adamjones1951]

I am tired of anime art

[@WonderSparkPuppets1]

Our Switch library TOWERS over our PS library. I love me some cartoony fun.

[@Caolan114]

I don't mine games trying to be realistic but when they are all trying to do that I have played a few games on PS5 and I wouldn't say they prioritize gameplay over graphics It's like "Look how good that reflection looks" and rarely "This character feels fun to control" or "This section Is so fun" It almost feels like video games trying to be movies where It switches to a slow walking segment and the camera pans up "Wow, look at that highly rendered sky *look at It!* COME ON, IT TOOK US 4 YEARS TO RENDER THAT SKY!

[@darinherrick9224]

I NEVER cared about realism. I care about STYLE.

[@hookitiri]

Cool shadows and lighting is still impressive to me, but it is mostly because my first console was an N64, and what else was out at the time (I mean this as in what was out when I got MY N64, not when it dropped :D) ? The PS3 and Xbox 360, of course, so it's not much of a shocker that it surprises me. I do prefer 100 fps over ray-tracing.

[@SkyDX]

What a well done video! Games that chase realism over artstyle will age with the hardware, games that focus on a great artstyle will stay timeless.

[@DJordydj]

I'm also bored of hyper-realism in video games, like I'm bored of shooters, and online competitive service games, and greedy companies that want us to devote ourselveds jusdt to one fucking game, like if we wanted that as gamers. I miss the PS2, XBOX and GameCube era, where devs experimented so hard with games. Ones were realistic, others weren't, and all felt great. I remember when I was 15 (2005) I was wondering what games would look in fgames nowadays. I was wishing for crazy wonders, impossible woelds, with tons of imaginative stuff in them. But sadly we all got is games that have the same gameplay mechanics but with different skins. They're all the same now and the sad part of focusing on hyper-realism is that your games don't look like they have personality, because they all look generic. I want games with crazy worlds in them, with none human characters all the time, and with impossible physics to use in gameplay. I want devs to make GAMES instead of TV shows. I play videogames to be in the virtual world what I'm not in the real world. I dont' want to be me, I don't want to walk in a world similar to mine, I want to experience things that realistic games can't offer.

[@Guy-cb1oh]

Congratulations GVG You just realized everything I did over 13 years ago.

[@suropetab4466]

And the money speaks as well, look at the top ten most sold games in history, with some places being ties, only 3 of those games have a realistic artstyle, gta 5 , rdr 2 and witcher 3

[@mystic5185]

I wanna see another Fire Emblem like Engage so badly. It just plays and looks phenomenal. I hope we can switch off between like 3H styled stuff and games like Engage. Even as a massive FE fan I will admit we get ALOT of games so mixing it up thematically and stylistically could help it from getting stale.

[@FieryAnubis]

I got bored of this sort of thing a long time ago, and it's great seeing more and more people who feel the same. I don't care about realism or fidelity or 4K or any of that, it never sells me a game. Art direction and art style is far more important. Especially because realism becomes dated in a week, and a good art style is timeless. Games focusing more on art rather than realism would also lower costs because they could use tricks to make it look amazing, or you know, just go for memorable art direction and there you go. I don't know why companies still haven't figured that out. I felt that way since like the PS3 "we only know grey, brown and black" era of gaming. A real eye opener.

[@ViniVHSoares1993]

I don't know if i would complain about games taking longer, i think it can be beneficial for AAA games like this to be like once per generation, it certantly seems better than yearly releases, and i love beautiful and realistic graphics, but if to get there the game needs a ton of money to be made, to a point that it need an absurd number of sales to just break even, devs being crunched, i would much rather a game with worse graphics and that devs will have more time polishing it and won't feel the need to pad the hell out of their games.

[@bio2189]

Never thought graphics were important, but I have to say when they're really good, it can make a game a lot more immersive. I don't think I would've liked Horizon: Forbidden West and Ghost of Tsushima as much if they didn't look so beautiful (even got the Platinum trophies, they were so easy to get lost into)

[@ecm2872]

Scarlet Nexus ost and Genshin mentioned unfathomably cultured and you have my respect. Okay but seriously, I’ve been feeling this way for quite a while myself and I really do want to see more unique art styles and visual techniques in games. Most games in the past few years have seemed to just blend in for me and I’m so tired of seeing so many of these generic realistic designs, it gets to the point where if someone says the word “AAA” to advertise their game I immediately don’t care and I hate that it’s gotten to that point. I just hope devs deviate from that and try unique and new things.

[@xiongkuniu]

For what it's worth I really liked this video. Not to say the other GVG videos aren't good either, just really appreciated the down to earth discussion on how this medium/hobby has changed so significantly over the years. Definitely made me think a lot. To comment on the subject matter itself, I don't necessarily thing there's a clear winner of "stylized' vs. "realism" in every case. Personally I'm getting very sick of "indie open world adventure games that look like BOTW" while having shallow gameplay and bad performance. So I suppose I do agree with Daniel's initial points that gameplay + performance are the most important aspects of a game. Overall just fascinating that games used to take about 2 years to develop and now my kid is about to turn 7 and Metroid Prime 4 STILL hasn't even had a trailer yet :(

[@jeroenboth167]

I actually like the 1994-2004 consoles much more with how the games looked

[@thebestworst8002]

I’m going to be honest, when you kept switching from hyper realistic games to more stylized games, my brain kept saying “Man this looks so much better.” Everything just looks a lot cleaner and when there’s no real life to compare it to, it doesn’t fall into an uncanny valley

[@lookhowshegobbledthat]

Depends on the genre. I like realism in horror, but for fantasy RPGs I prefer an art style, for FPS games I like both.

[@scrappedbits]

Great video. I have felt the same way for a very long time now.

[@MegaDoomdoomDoom]

I have felt this way about realistic graphics since 2012. I’m glad to see others feel the same

[@charmingpeasant9834]

All the hyper-realistic games look like the same slop these days, they have no unique art styles, and character design suffers the most because of it since they all now look like bland 'realistic' humans, not video game characters. Then there's the can of worms where hyper-realism ends up making characters look really unappealing or downright ugly, especially female characters.

[@Sly88Frye]

As someone who is having financial struggles lately I haven't been buying any new games and haven't paid much attention. I love my Switch and although I got Switch games for it, maybe because of limited time due to work I spend a lot more time playing the old school games on the online service. Many of which I grew up with and some I missed out on back in the day like The Minish Cap. Anyways now that you mention it, perhaps you are right. Trying to go for the more realistic graphics is getting boring now. Artistic style is way more interesting to look at. Gameplay needs to be prioritized more.