Live Service Ruined Gaming

[@stevescruby1343]

“Live service” became a model which allowed studios to justify releasing games in a half-finished state. This alone is an enormous issue.

[@rorbot_SMF]

The gamer basically becomes the beta tester (which they tend to pay for in different ways), and this is one of a few reasons why I've stepped away from a lot of gaming. Most of these game companies are totally disrespectful of our time and money.

[@polarfr_st]

Gaming is dead... And we killed itm

[@panzer00]

If people weren't brain-dead consumers, it wouldn't have happened

[@polarfr_st]

​​@@panzer00Why can't we just give up on gaming and start over?

[@panzer00]

@polarfrost. because it's corporate. You could support indie games and there are a few "AAA" development teams out there who don't psychologically manipulate their players but they make singleplayer games.

[@DancerVeiled]

Being punished for taking a break has helped me break these addictions so much. Cause I figure, "well, I've taken a day off, I'm already behind, why bother going back now?"

[@tosutaa]

Yeah same her, especially with destiny 2. I remember spending months grinding for the recluse and mountaintop just for me to take a break at the end of the season and coming back to them being absolutely useless. I uninstalled immediately and haven't come back, best decision I've ever made

[@J.Wolf90]

Fuckkk lmao if you waste your time playing keep up with battle passes and events you need to stop asap. Don't let that shit dictate your life. Games are supposed to be a hobby not a lifestyle

[@derangedtangerine4731]

That is literally how I gave up Fortnite. I missed some battle pass challenges, locking me out of content so I just up and quit out of frustration. I've been actively avoiding games with FOMO content ever since.

[@tom0900060]

so true, i quit destiny 2 in 2020 and never bothered going back

[@GDKF0238]

I started Destiny 2 in 2020 and stopped Destiny 2 in 2020. Game is a fucking time trap

[@ricogt7092]

This is why I have really gotten back into emulation and retro gaming because you can't put lootboxes in a 10 year old game that was never designed for this

[@autobotstarscream765]

Hasn't stopped remasters and remakes from trying.

[@Juicepepper]

Look into getting a miyoo mini or rg35xx

[@histhoryk2648]

What you want a remaster of 10 year old game with MTX and delisting the original release?

[@ricogt7092]

@@Juicepepper I would love to get a rg35xx or a mini. Currently I do a lot of gaming on the steam deck and have my retro collection backed up on there

[@ffejpsycho]

Don't tempt them...

[@deitz6854]

This period in gaming feels like I’m a single player in a multiplayer world.

[@mathewhosier9739]

Except 90% of games are still single player mainly

[@benn87]

This comment is really hitting home. Because it's 100 % true. In recent years, the single player part of many games has been dumbed down more and more in order to invest more time and money in the multiplayer/live service. A good single-player game exists forever. A live service game is only good until the servers are shut down...

[@0potion]

​@@mathewhosier9739With a very good chunk of them requiring an internet connection in order to play even though it's single player...... Where I live the cheapest internet plan is over a $150.... Imagine having to spend a $150 subscription fee to play a single player game....

[@jackc7530]

Unfortunately this is guaranteed to become the new norm, not just because corpos want more money, but because an entire generation of gamers is being raised on these games. This is what gaming is to them.

[@misbegotten3508]

Idunno. The "novelty" of "not getting slammed from behind while youre choked" is still really fresh and easy to imagine. Pandora's Box works both ways, basically.

[@fishyfinthing8854]

Then we should show the new generation that good games that doesn't need to spend so much money exists. Me and my little brother play many indie games, we have plenty of fun out of Terraria, Minecraft, Gungeon or even Muck. And there's are more out there that we still don't have time to play them yet. I'm also told him that for many battle pass that he had spent on Fortnite, he could have dozens of games to play on his PC.

[@mathewhosier9739]

Maybe it's the norm for AAA multiplayer games, but I stopped playing these types of trash games when I grew hair on my you know what, it's time to grow up and start playing AA and indie single player games, where there are no live service games and no microtransactions

[@twohorsesinamancostume7606]

Been saying this shit for years. Gamers want to endlessly whinge about live service games and microtransactions but yet they'll still shell out that cash.

[@bobbygetsbanned6049]

And that's the real problem. Sure a lot of use hate it, but there are enough people willing to buy shit in games that it's not going anywhere.

[@Rocksaplenty]

Just refunded Diablo 4. It looked alright, but it has oblivion's leveling system, a battlepass, and all the other bells and whistles.

[@keyboardstalker4784]

The people speaking out against the business model usually aren’t the same ones buying into it.

[@nickthompson1812]

It’s clearly not the same group of gamers doing both.

[@SuperZaiyan9]

At this point I’m just hoping for another crash because I’m convinced that publishers need a drastic situation in order to truly learn that this shit isn’t ok

[@Thorn_416]

But it IS okay! Mouthbreathing “gamers” will preorder a special edition for $120 all from a TRAILER lol the consumer base is completely braindead and these companies have no respect for them. All we need to do to change this shit is stop buying ANY games at launch and wait for a few months or even a year for all the fixes and whatever. But it’ll never happen because videogame consumers are weakminded idiots that play defense for the corporations that look down on them.

[@davejohnson4061]

Me too, no Ubisoft, Activision, Blizzard etc. let them bleed money only language they understand.

[@Wregst3]

We need to restart again

[@kocurro14]

"another" crash? What was the first one?

[@SuperZaiyan9]

@@kocurro14 I think it was mainly a thing in the US but in 1983, the video game market was being flooded with so many poor quality products that sales were at an all time low to the point where people that video games were a fad. It wasn’t until the NES that video games found an audience again in the US

[@vladbat4050]

I believe that Deep Rock Galactic is a perfect example of Live Service done right. They consistently have been releasing new content during their season pass update model, like most live service games. However they do many things differently that have garnered them such trust and respect from their community. Their battle pass system has remained a free path of progression with free cosmetics and extra resources for players. But the key feature I don’t see any other company do is the fact previous seasonal cosmetics are actually put back into the game as part of the cosmetic loot pool. They’ve made a seasonal model without the FOMO which shows how greedy other companies are with their seasonal passes. The only extra purchases in DRG are cosmetic bundle packs. They’re purchased directly with money, go on sale quite often, and updated with extra cosmetics when they release new weapons! I would say that’s a quite fair trade off over buying some virtual currency that means practically nothing once the game servers are shut down

[@Brick_Steve]

Rock and Stone brother

[@nickenicklp5953]

i was looking for this comment. would have written it myself otherwise. rock and stone

[@toffthegoblin7790]

After 3K hours in destiny 2 I finally gave DRG a chance and it’s a breath of fresh air. Best fps co-op game I’ve played in years.

[@-pressxtostart-]

Monster hunter is also live service and fantastic

[@aiodensghost8645]

​​@-pressxtostart-o ne of the OGs, too. You had online play on the PS2 Edit: and, here in the future, you also have online play for most of the Gen 2 games (Freedom Unite was the only PSP release to get this kind of mod support, and after playing it I can see why)

[@PAXperMortem]

I always feared that this was the direction the industry was moving in. Back then, people would defend mtx saying they were "just cosmetics", apparently failing to realizing that visual content is as much part of a video game as everything else. Probably the biggest slippery slope in gaming.

[@ChickenJoe-tq6xd]

But those are the same people still buying them now, they are addicted and say exactly what a drug user would say “it’s just coke, not heroin” type comments

[@kaminsod4077]

The guys freaking out about horse armor in Oblivion were fucking seers.

[@anonymous-wk1nh]

Agreed. Even if it's just cosmetic, your overall gameplay experience is still affected when everyone is parading around in cool skins but you're stuck with a basic, default skin you can't change because it's the only free skin. Speaking of which, free customisation options/skins have basically become an afterthought now which is an apalling standard to be setting

[@leflyxdvd]

@@kaminsod4077 i remember when that "dlc" came out and remember everbody i knew laugh about it like "who the hell is going to buy that for a single player game" and yet here we are in the presents, where dlcs are mandatory to have the full game experience but also get pricier by time. Paradox are king of this shit, looking at the money i spend on ck3, stellaris etc with all the "main" dlcs adding new core components otherwise not accessible while AI can use them. And ofc i have a job now and i dont mind it its still a hobby but i can imagine kids these days feeling left out and begging their parents for money to be cool with the other kids its kinda fcked up.

[@avramnovorra]

Seeing the state of modern gaming has made me realize that a crash may be the only other way to wake these companies up and make them feel the consequences of their actions..

[@ChickenJoe-tq6xd]

Mindless consumer redditors will make sure it never crashes, they pre order everything

[@blackbeast9268]

​@@ChickenJoe-tq6xdtake this from a ex heavy redditor, redditors love to use the word normies, and, in gaming love to complain about companies releading broken videogames. but they eathier defend the company, prooving they are the real normies, or preorder a digital gamecopy and then somehow complain how AAA games suck

[@ashy_slashy_]

The most serious issue (from the ones that you mentioned) is the live service game "preventing" you from playing other games. I have so many games on my PC, old and new ones on GOG, Epic Games and Xbox Game Pass that I wanted to try but the FOMO kept me from doing that. F--- that. I adopted a new philosophy: Gaming is about having fun. If you're playing a game and it feels like a job, then you're wasting your time and depriving yourself of new experiences. Don't hesitate to press Play on that random game from your backlog.

[@Bustermachine]

That's kinda become my personal take on life. We were told that all these services were here to 'serve' us. But actually they're here to serve themselves. We're all living in a marketing bubble that only benefits people who want to mess with our heads for money, and the only way out is to walk away. Talk to people. Make a conscious effort to watch and play things you normally wouldn't. Make an effort to do things you normally wouldn't, not because an advertisement told you to, but because you were walking past the beach/park and said 'hey that looks fun'. Heck, it's even lowered stress my stress about games. If some game comes out and it's good, then great, I'll pick it up eventually. If it's garbage, I don't feel animosity towards all the people who worked on it.

[@mikfhan]

I get what you mean, recently I played ESO but thankfully without the subscription so I can just walk away whenever I find something else. But the game lured me into daily pledges which is basically just rushing through two dungeons selected at random for increased experience/champion points. Instead I should be playing the main/zone quests at my own slower pace and soloing their dungeon for more story and challenge. Much less efficient XP wise but the EXPERIENCE is more important than the experience points. Insidious live service.

[@doomslayer8985]

FACTS this is the reason why I quitted on ALL live service games this year and never come back, ever since 2018 I was spending all my time playing live service games so bad I couldn't finish many games like spiderman, RDR2, TLOU and so many amazing single players games, it's literally cancer that spreads on the gaming industry

[@Sumtrok]

​​@@doomslayer8985 same thing here, last year finally quit wow for good and league ranked grind, came back to dark souls 1-3 and sekiro and then elden ring come out and everything is going better even in my life not just in gaming, bro this live service games shit is a cancer that want the time of your life to make money

[@erso_returned2530]

Great advice

[@stevegaming1013]

Seeing decent games that aren't broken and advertised as a "live service" is super super rare. Heck battlebit came out and because those four guys made a great experience they put most AAA devs to shame. Their game is one I wouldn't mind sending more to support tbh.

[@NovemberHotel]

Battlebit is so awesome. Been loving even the progression system to unlock things. Lot of fun

[@Diax1324]

They should release a basic cash system where you can buy the guns that already exist in the game. Simple. People who can’t grind and want a groza can buy a groza for $20, everyone else can fairly grind for it at the same rate as currently exists. It would net them quite a bit of cash and would be a fun change. What else? I’d pay $20 for a zombie mode. The game could definitely support such a system. Battle royale would also be fun, even if it’s a tiny bit derivative.

[@malcontender6319]

@@Diax1324 No. It was created to go against just that type of person. Casuals who don't try - need not apply.

[@bigfoot9049]

​@Diax1324 you sound like the problem, if you don't have time then don't play

[@Diax1324]

@@bigfoot9049 I'm the problem by suggesting a basic cashflow that doesn't alter the game in any way whatsoever or give certain players benefits unavailable to those who work for them? Yeah, no idiot. This is how DLC/transactions used to work. You could buy the same stuff that you could work for if you were either too lazy or didn't have enough time. With a balanced weaponset, it doesn't matter if a level 1 player has a Groza.

[@martindjakovic7052]

"The game just launched, be patient!" Yes, I will be patient. I'm not buying shit until the game is good.

[@dustinduzgames1276]

But then you'll miss all the cool stuff

[@SpartanJoe193]

​@@dustinduzgames1276 Cool stuff 😂

[@ziebus904]

Buying what...these bitches free😂

[@lordelon9955]

This is why even after 10 years of playing off and on Terraria and Minecraft, I still go back and play to this day. Minecraft can be seen as a live service game, but the reason I keep going back is because I love the core gameplay. But the biggest reason, is mods. And I think this should've been mentioned in your Single Player section. Because a lot of singleplayer games are so against adding mod support for no real reason, and it's unfortunate. It adds so much to the longevity of games. Besides Bethesda who will always have it because modders fix their broken games...

[@Impalingthorn]

Trying to convince someone who buys into these predatory tactics that they are being used and are contributing to the bad quality of modern games is like trying to convince a cocaine addict to stop snorting a line. And that's the problem; everyone speaks with their wallet and only a precious few actually understand that concept.

[@RKDriver]

If you go into some social media gaming threads and rag on a game, these addicts will come out of the woodwork to attack you. They act like a cult and cults use psychological manipulation to keep them trapped.

[@silver1407]

very few people unfortunately

[@awehy3993]

Some people enjoy it ig

[@bricaaron3978]

@@awehy3993 *"Some people enjoy it ig"* Cocaine?

[@huntersigler9895]

It’s not an addiction issue, it’s an intelligence issue. People are just stupid.

[@gr77552]

I think one of the most important reasons for my game-burnout is the non-stop "must-play" events. I used to play for a while, put it aside for a while and come back. The events prevented this and finally all my desire for the game disappeared... just when I had everything I wanted to have in the beginning.

[@MrDeadlyProtocall]

Yeah, happened to me with Dead By Daylight. Buy the battle pass and it turns into a second job trying to unlock all the cosmetics!

[@danstrikker6465]

Why I first stopped playing destiny 2

[@offline2807]

@@MrDeadlyProtocall what would be nice is if you completed the "battle pass" in dbd you had the chance to earn it for free and the paid one just means you get those cosmetics over the same amount of time but dont need to do that last step. that way its not ridiculous and people who enjoy the game still have a nice progression system while the whales can still buy it and just do their thing

[@MrDeadlyProtocall]

@@offline2807 that’s true. But completing that free battle pass will take up so much free time

[@offline2807]

@@MrDeadlyProtocall true but so does most free progression in old games. the difference is at least you wont have to pay for it now and in dbd some skins do come back. so its not the worst

[@yol_n]

It's still incredible to me how the currently most profitable live service games are the ones with the most consumer friendly microtransactions, and most of the best sold singleplayer games of this decade didn't have any microtransactions at all... Yet, publishers and developers *still* don't get it.

[@Noname-ol8ef]

Hmmmm....what are the most successful live service games currently 🤔🤔🤔

[@MuscledRMH]

It frustrates me SO MUCH that after all these years they still do not understand what gamers want

[@mrmonsterhunter808]

@@Noname-ol8efprobably destiny 2 or fortnite

[@miraveilyt]

​@@mrmonsterhunter808implying that Destiny 2 mtxs are consumer friendly, lmao

[@liquidsweg4858]

@@mrmonsterhunter808 destiny 2 is anything but consumer friendly

[@LordGhentsis]

Hot Take: Bungie released Lightfall incomplete on purpose not just because to drip feed the player-base, but as a loyalty test to the community. Bungie wants to see how will the community will tolerate being completely nicked and dimed for everything and, from my perspective, the community are completely under their control.

[@The_Albraskan]

Lightfall was originally supposed to be the last expansion for Destiny’s Light and Dark saga. But then they decided to “split” it into two parts and announced The Final Shape expansion before they even launched Lightfall. Dangling the carrot indeed.

[@revan5293]

Bro that sounds like a damn conspiracy😂

[@HekateMGO]

@@revan5293on the other hand when people said Eververse would make Destiny into a microtransaction hellscape it was also dismissed as a “conspiracy” and look at where we’ve ended up.

[@BungieStudios]

It’s not a loyalty test. It’s what they already know to be true. They bragged about it in last year’s summer games fest.

[@BungieStudios]

Marathon is going to be even worse. Recycled story, no campaign, no complex scripting, no additional features, just a giant rumble match. I say this as a Marathon fan.

[@lady.foxpoint]

genshin impact is a huge example too it's a second job, you *have* to play everyday and complete everything unless you wanna pay hundreds of dollars when the characters you want are available to *try* and get the odds are crazy too... 0.5% chance to get a 5 star is absolutely insane

[@MrSpartan993]

It’s called “gambling” my friend.

[@sauxewon21]

Now I am gon say that’s wrong but also the game your talking about is a GACHA game you have to be a responsible consumer to play games like Genshin and ZZZ

[@MHA01]

I stopped playing after the first couple of hours because of the controls and not finding it entertaining.

[@almightysamwhich4203]

Ever since i quit destiny 2 ive noticed ive felt happier, i havent had any real "gamer rage" outbursts, ive felt like i can just take a break from gaming when i need to. And honestly ive been enjoying games much more for that reason

[@winlover37]

Being an FPS fan has been heartbreaking the past decade. I've been fascinated with and played just about all the landmark titles in the genre, and there has been a dramatic shift in PVP design. I don't like artificial grinds that eventually make the game fun, I like an inherently fun game that MAKES me want to unlock more. Loved your coverage on BO1, easily in my top 10. I hope we can return to form someday.

[@hotdogmanful]

I agree. Since 2015, the only game I've put any time into is csgo, which I guess is a live service, but done right imo. I did get MW2 at launch, but quit playing after a month, nothing to do or unlock. Black ops 2 was the last one I played, and ffs what happened lmao

[@THEODSTKING117]

i hope so too. I fear the commercialism and monetization of games will only worsen with time though. I don’t think there’s no going back to what we had after these companies have realized how much profit they can pull by not trying at all.

[@StationaryGamingReal]

Loved BO1. New content was always worth it.

[@lileofficial4273]

Yea FPS had fallen off so hard that I'm not even interested in shooter games anymore, Armored Core 6 will be my first one in years

[@winlover37]

@@lileofficial4273 Armored core 6 looks really interesting, I'm actually excited to see a somewhat promising looking game.

[@eduardoportal5341]

I remember walking around the tower in d1 and seeing another titan have the crotas age of triumph armor and thinking "woah i gotta get me that armor" its definitely not the same with the cash shop and everything

[@ezpeasy3967]

So true that game made you feel like a badass for completing a raid and earning that badass looking armour and weapons destiny 2 doesnt have that feeling because the best armour is locked behind a paywall

[@cheesegoblin8850]

SAME. When I was a wee new light, I gazed upon the super dripped out gaurdians in the tower and was entranced. I had to get that armor.

[@aksula-1]

Dude you are spitting STRAIGHT facts. Ignore the defenders, this IS our fault. We allowed this to happen and we must put our foot down and say no

[@stoneymahoney9106]

No. John Q Normie-Gamer got brainwashed by the enormous PR onslaught these pubs and devs orchestrated and now thinks eating their own poop increases their K/D. Deprogramming people that thoroughly compromised is extremely difficult, especially when they're still exposed to the people who did it in the first place.

[@Azarilh]

No, it is not the users' fault. It's the laws that allow this to happen.

[@Bustermachine]

@@Azarilh It's a bit of a chicken of the egg honestly. Because everything that's happened to gaming isn't unique to gaming. It's a microcosm of how marketing is used to manipulate us. It's like gambling addiction, people know it's wrong, that it's hurting them, and yet they still can't easily stop and might even lash out at someone trying to cut off the dopamine drip.

[@JamesTDG]

@@Azarilh It is a combination of various factors tbh. Lack of regulation (your point), rise of greed for publishers, and loss in passion from players (OP's point) are just the major ones that are noticed.

[@Skeletons_Riding_Ostriches]

If the solution is 'vote with your wallet' then the issue is doomed.

[@LysergicCasserole95]

AAA Industry crash needs to happen asap.

[@oSerpicox]

14:41 "You're playing more out of FOMO, than enjoyment of the progression experience itself." Man, this really hits home. I feel this way constantly with Apex, Halo Infinite, OW....I'm so sick of the battle passes I don't even enjoy playing anymore...it feels like a chore, and some some reason I feel obligated to complete the weekly rewards...why? I don't know! I don't even have friends to "show" off to. I'm 36 and can't play for more than a few hours a day at most or if at all. I'm really hoping Starfield can give me a reason to love gaming again.

[@laius6047]

Few hours a day is a lot for a 36 year old.

[@pnda4258]

lol

[@smurfdaddy420]

Man I'm 23 and wish I had a few hours every day to grind games. With classes and work it's more like a few hours every couple days.

[@MisfortunaExo]

Pssst Monster hunter

[@Burner-td4cu]

I would suggest the gym as an alternative? You get the exact same enjoyment out of old school gaming. + all the actual real benefits like health, body composition, mental health and people genuinely treat you better when you’re in shape..

[@ShikouBakusaijin]

I had burnout playing so many live service games like Genshin Impact, Honkai Impact and Pokemon Masters, I had fear of missing out the new updates and felt the sunk cost of leaving all my micro-purcheses in those games go to the trash. I simply stopped and now nothing of those fears matter. I feel so free now, go to hell with all those games.

[@Duke.Of.Shostka]

Enter Guild Wars 2 - buy once and play forever, no lvl/"light"/gear cap increases, play as much or as little as you want, no pay-to-win

[@JamesTDG]

Halo Infinite burned me out from the whole damn franchise. Acutally, let me rephrase that, it burned me from wanting to play on my Xbox! WORST $60 I ever spent for a preorder.

[@Dayman98]

yea just go play team fortress 2 or something, dont need to spend a dollar to have thousands of hours of fun

[@justaguy278]

Try dragon dogma which has really good combat and also try divinity original sin 2 which has really good writing and roleplaying

[@Frank-x1g]

Stopped playing COD after 18 years cause Cold War was last old school game. No real need to grind there and zombies were super fun. Working through a long backlog and enjoying stories and old games I missed.

[@Captain.Mystic]

10 years ago: "Live service games will destroy the game industry" "oh come on it wont be that bad" now: "Live service games ruined gaming" "shush ive spent 9 years on this game i cant let it die now"

[@CookyMonzta]

Only the indies can kill live service. The -AAA- FFF companies are aware of that, and they want nothing more than to kill the indie industry so that they're the only ball game in town, take it or leave it... ...but what if too many gamers decide to leave, and join the legacy/classic fan-base, and that fan-base starts to get bigger, thanks to gamers who missed out on the fun because they were way too young when those games hit the store shelves?

[@soundrogue4472]

@@CookyMonzta Even small studios that become big like with Super Meat Boy are becoming money grubbing.

[@Mornings]

"Surely watching people who made videos on such games didn't add to it its not my fault it's the devs" 💀

[@Captain.Mystic]

​@Mornings NPC tier response.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

valve on their way to ruin the industry

[@zubrhero5270]

Here's something that has happened to me in recent years. For context, I'm 40 and I've played video games since as far back as my memories go, and honestly, I never thought I'd ever get bored of one of my major hobbies. You know the sayings, "Cant see the wood for the trees" and "Don't ask how the sausage is made"? Well, somewhere in between them both is how I feel with gaming these days. Like, because gaming news flipped about 10 years ago to being more focused on what goes on behind closed doors and less reviews and previews, it's made me hyper-aware to the manipulative methods utilised... _to the point now_ where I just don't see it as "come back next week to do more quests... it'll be fun" and rather see it as "if we hold your attention long enough, you've got more chance to turn from a player to a payer".

[@ItsBoyRed]

it can be hard to see modern games as casual innocent fun - once you have seen it for what it is, even just once.

[@AJ213Probably]

It's even worse. Developers, especially mobile developers, will harvest your data and perform AB tests to figure out how to manipulate you into spending more or watching more ads. The companies will tell themselves they are doing the data collection to better player experience. But really, it's to better harvest money from you.

[@THEODSTKING117]

“from a player to a payer.” that’s a fitting mantra for these money hungry CEO’s that are running the industry into the ground with their monetized garbage. I’m only in my early 20’s and i’m old enough to remember when games were different. growing up playing games in the sixth and seventh console generation was such a blessing man. we really were so spoiled, games were obviously about making profit to them then too, but at least then it seemed like they gave a damn. like these fuckin’ companies don’t even bother to make cool stylized manuel’s anymore, now they’re selling physical editions with no discs at all?? the fuck happened. the art/entertainment form is dying, physical media is dying. no one wants to take a risk anymore and rather settle for easy profit with no effort. very hard to stomach it all after growing up seeing so many great games and films being released

[@simplysmiley4670]

Same, honestly. Like yeah I'm glad I'm aware of this tomfuckery that's being done in the industry. But it changed my perception on all games so hard that I can't even see solid games in a good light anymore unless it's way too old for the nonsense to be applicable to it. Any new game release, even indie titles, I'm skeptical as all hell about them, with my list of games I follow but don't buy growing larger and larger, and larger unable to decide wether I want to get it or not because "it could end up bad" or "they are definitely gonna try and milk me out of cash". Even games like Deep Rock Galactic which is amazingly good, I spent years till I finally decided to buy it because of all the skepticism I had about it.

[@Drinkyoghurt]

@@ItsBoyRed Especially with skill based or engagement optimized matchmaking which makes it impossible to feel like you're getting better. I'm a multi Master player in Apex and before they had SBMM I used to get 10+ kills each match and win 25% of my matches. Once SBMM was introduced in season 3 it went downhill and it's at its worst now. My KD hovers around 1 now whereas it used to be around 3 a few seasons ago. Every match I'm fighting top 750 players included pro players who play with their friends. I haven't won a single match in 50 games this season. Add to that getting paired with low level teammates, bad servers and bugs that don't get fixed in years and I've legit lost my appetite to play anymore. I'm just looking to buy a racing wheel and play some racing games. Oh, and one game which does everything right IMHO is Trackmania. They stayed true to their core throughout.

[@commander2552]

I see why Activision destroyed the projects that kept the old games alive on PC without hackers. Gotta keep em paying.

[@chipjamesmusic]

I needed to see this video. This is one of the reasons WHY i make my own games in all honesty. I think the GAMING industry is over at this point. The only games I play now are Indie games or my own games. It's actually quite rare that I pick up the controller to game that isn't AT LEAST 10 years old from today. I remember I was talking to someone and they told me that "cosmetics change the way the game is played." Like WTF? People being blinded to what is and isn't engaging. It's sad but it is what it is. Also great video btw.

[@mathewhosier9739]

2023 has been one of the best years for single player, AA and indie titles, stop playing AAA trash and broaden your horizons

[@chipjamesmusic]

@@mathewhosier9739 lol

[@adrianrenard1262]

Sometimes I get called a boomer for talking about how games were in the past (precisely these points) and how my standards are too unrealistic for this era, tells you a lot about how younger generations and even ones that are my age got brainwashed so hard onto believing this how gaming should be and that it can't get any better, the conformism they have is also a big factor on why gaming in general is nosediving in quality.

[@kenshinhimura9387]

Because none of these gen z clowns have the guts to boycott a game like us OG gamers do.

[@Riu-bw4bl]

Gen z does this for a lot of different things and parts of life that a even just a decade ago we’re much better in quality and passion. Like why stick up for something that could be much better? Gets on my nerves.

[@jjay350]

Spot on.

[@itzdarklordz8311]

Couldn't have said it any better pal, the way that the industry is moving and how most ppl nowadays buy those marketing strategies is just heading towards a stray path

[@cheesegoblin8850]

Look, don't dog on Gen z, a lot of Gen z kids are KIDS. BUT I get what you're saying. I want to love Destiny 2 so much but, I just can't.

[@KellysHeroes777]

The idea of having a game ( like Destiny 1 which I loved ) being consistently undated is an amazing idea in principle but clearly it can't be sustained in reality. I haven't preordered or paid for any micro transactions since D1. I just can't bring myself to do it

[@jacklancaster3531]

I have unfortunately bought some when the game was seemingly getting better. I do wish we went back to that d1 formula. It was released unfinished but it was for reasons other than laziness, it was an internal problem so not really anybodys fault other than the ones who pulled the plug on the original story and build. But the formula was good and it was fun when it got going. Full paid dlcs like house of wolves, taken king and rise or iron are amazing and actually deliver. Plus the occasional free updates were awesome. Too bad we won't get anything like that for a while and maybe not even from bungie. I'm not too trusting on marathon and I'm really hoping for a reboot of destiny honestly. Its not an optimistic future for one of my favourite games.

[@DaBlaccGhost]

I got destiny 2 for free and I still feel scammed....

[@jumpingmoose5554]

I've hardly ever spent money on live service games, it's crazy that people have fallen for it so much

[@samihookings8241]

I don’t blame a lot of them though, as was said in the video, these games are designed from the ground up to take advantage of peoples mentality and squeeze as much out of them as possible. I’ve spent more than I’d like to think about on certain games. That was a few years ago though, I’ve since stepped away from most of the games I used to play, and stick to indie, old classics and fighting games.

[@henryfleischer404]

I spent $10 on Minecraft, and $15 on Halo Infinite cat ears. The cat ears are my first and last microtransaction.

[@legitplayin6977]

@@henryfleischer404Don’t worry, cat ears are very important and you are 100% justified in your expenses

[@jerk_store]

_I hardly every rob old ladies, it's crazy that people do it so much._

[@squirrelsyrup1921]

I've hardly ever given money to a camgirl

[@zaikoji]

Such a good video man. You’ve strengthened my resolve to resist this bullshit. More people need to open their eyes to this dreadful reality.

[@MooncricketsInc]

Yes, they do, but unfortunately, there are way too many that are okay with these terrible live service tactics,greed,loot boxes, and all the other garbage that comes with it.

[@bronyhub]

I knew these live service games would be bad from the start because: Lack of a modding scene. I've posted numerous times before that a game with a healthy modding community is a game that will always be worth playing, even decades later. It's unfortunate that many publishers want to kill this important aspect of games by ensuring that all games will be online only and could be turned off at any moment. "You will own nothing and you will be... miserable."

[@nickthompson1812]

Idk. I have an adverse reaction. Games that focus on becoming a platform for mods tend to suck vanilla because they expect modders to finish the game for them. Starfield. As much as I love it, Bannerlord. Modding should not be a top priority. Putting out a finished game that people love and are willing to invest time in to create mods should be top priority.

[@MundaneThingsBackwards]

@@nickthompson1812 Bethesda is a very very special case. They've always been lazy bastards since Fallout 3 even. If a game is great without mods, it'll be even better with mod compatibility. The ones who actively try to suppress mods on the other hand are far more likely to be garbage because they're going to try to SELL you what you could have gotten for free anyway in this climate.

[@oldblossomdies]

I made the same exact realization in recent times. Old games and indie games are where it's at these days for the most part. That's where the true passion lies. Looking forward to some amazing indie games that will surely come out in the future. As well as playing my favourite games from the past all modded out. A lot of modern games are exploitative husks of what a game should be. And people defend it like drones.

[@simplysmiley4670]

And worst of all, these corpo cock-sucking drones get the publicity, mostly thanks to some youtubers being whales themselves or having severe case of sunk cost fallacy enforcing the belief that this kind of bullcrap we're getting is _fine_

[@titustaddhaustaddltentakel9987]

I completely agree. The games I play the most and buy these days are mostly games that have been launched years ago. Stuff like the Witcher games, GTAIV, CS:GO, Undertale, Cities Skylines, Risk of Rain, Batman Arkham series, Borderlands series, Castle Crashers, the Half Life games, Lego games, Star Wars Jedi Knight, Empire At War. Full games that are already good and have been good for years.

[@ikeaira8701]

yup, same deal here. I've gone back and started playing on Private Servers of a certain MMORPG as well(because it's current retail iteration is not what the game truly is meant to be played like. Still a solid game in Retail, but far too solo focused.). It's sad we have to go back just to be satisfied with a product/genre. Indie games I personally don't care for as much as a lot of 'em(not all) are still stuck in that 8-bit/retro era due to various reasons and I grew outta liking that style of game long ago.

[@Magikarp-4ever]

Some few of us are still sitting by the campfire playing OOT but we aren't welcoming anyone back 😂 y'all made the choice to suck EA now deal with the aftermath

[@b-side3682]

100% agree on this

[@whereismyshoe499]

I know it’s hard to switch into different content, but videos like this are a perfect transition and videos like those are good at spreading awareness🙏🏾 keep going man we support ya

[@NovemberHotel]

I appreciate that! 🤙🏼

[@SepticTank53]

@@NovemberHotel Never seen a video of yours until now.. apparently an old destiny channel venturing away from the game? Might be a bit of a dangerous take for someone looking to make money on youtube, but i wouldn't put the blame on corporations. What do they exist for? To make money.. and that's what they are doing. I personally place the blame on the players. The market sets the standards, what they will and won't buy, and you hit that in your video with the mcdonalds reference. In some ways you did point the finger at players, but it was a bit too relaxed if you ask me. Have to feed your family and such.. want to get away from your old 9 to 5.. i don't know you.. but i get it. My approach would've been a hellscape of blame on the playerbase and ideally even defending the actions of these companies, making sure it's apparent of whom i'm burning into a ground lol. That all said, I've given up on modern gaming for the most part. Looking forward to Fires of Rubicon.. and while we can all hate some of nintendos actions around their property rights, I can't remember the last time nintendo got burned for a bad game release (that said, i haven't touched nintendo in ages). Other then that, i mostly just play oldschool games, speedrun a couple of them, and indie games. What i guess i wanna say is.. hats off to ya for leaving destiny even when it is what your channel was founded upon. I'll give you a sub, to try and help the transition and look forward to the next thing ya do :).

[@nickthompson1812]

@@SepticTank53 it is easy to blame consumers when you don’t realize the psychological manipulation done by companies to elicit people buying microtransactions and season passes. Companies exist to make money, not to psychologically manipulate its customers into buying nonsense. That is scummy and is rightfully being called out.

[@SepticTank53]

@@nickthompson1812 AAA companies have hired psychologists to assist in maximizing this manipulation you speak of into various game systems to help with maximizing profits. I DO realize it, and it's further reason why i stress people not buying games from these companies in the first place. It is the consumers fault for taking that first step. The marketing itself is psychological, but so is literally everything companies do in and outside of gaming to try and get a sell. It's why supermarkets put the cheap individual candies at the line to checkout, for that impulse buy, that social perception of the woman who won't buy her child that hershey's bar for $1.. it's all intentional psychological manipulation. Consumers educate themselves and learn about these things, and those that do often can resist it. With gaming, transactions (they aren't micro anymore) and season passes and the psychological manipulations that go with them.. none of that will effect the person if they just take the logical first step of not buying into a game until after reviews, and doing their research on the game when all the info is out. I don't buy games with premium currency's or any form of transactions outside expansive dlc. Other people could learn to do that to.. it's not like it leads to throwing away the hobby.. plenty of good dev studios in the indie space. Last note.. i agree that stuff is scummy, but calling it out does little to nothing. It's the whole reason i give my rants in these comments, even tho I honestly think AAA is beyond saving at this point, and that people will just continue to buy crap and complain. A company exists to make money, and responding the way we all hope for is less effective at making money then continuing what they are doing.

[@elsienova4269]

I geniunely think we are in a dark era of gaming. Despite what people used to complain about, 2011-2018 geniunely felt like an amazing era of gaming both with singleplayer titles and multiplayer titles.

[@phnx_tom5400]

Yeah many of my favourite Games like Destiny, ARK and Battlefield became dogshit tbh. Now I'm just playing WoW since months again

[@Rainbowhawk1993]

Dark era for Multiplayer. But 2023 has perhaps the greatest lineup of Single Player games in a single year. RE4 Dead Space FF16 Tears of the Kingdom Hi-Fi Rush And the best thing is the greatest game of the year hasn’t even been released yet: STARFIELD

[@dave7474]

​@@Rainbowhawk1993I just wanted to detract from your comment a little, the dead space remake is unplayably unoptimized and stutters constantly which detracts from the experience heavily and has been abandoned by EA

[@TheOneTrueWarrior]

@@Rainbowhawk1993 Not to rain on your parade, but I think that's likely a bit hyperbolic. Two remakes, a decent jrpg, a glorified expansion pack, and an admittedly pretty neat passion project show gaming still has a pulse but is nothing to write home about. 2011 had: Skyrim, Batman: Arkham city, Mass effect 2, Dead space 2, Portal 2, Limbo, Bastion and more. I think it's easy to forget we used to get genuinely great games with more regularity than we have in recent years. Very hyped for starfield tho. I need todd to save the games industry

[@Kaiji...]

Pre-2016 was the golden era. I'd argue you'd get more value from a old Xbox 360 and buying hundreds games dirt cheap than getting the newest gen console. I bought a Gameboy with every game on it and 200+ fan-made Pokemon games, it's great (Advanced Wars & Pokemon Gold Sigma are incredible btw).

[@peterpan4038]

"The game just launched, be patient." Is a perfectly fine statement, if you didn't pre-order the mess. I'm patient when it comes buying actual games, not broken shitshows.

[@nimish891]

You have worded the problem perfectly. Like everything that we can understand and not be able to put into words, you have done that brilliantly. Games are not fun anymore because they never end.

[@boloaimlock603]

The real problem is that gaming became so mainstream around the ps4/Xb1 era that the more old school gamers who are against this type of stuff aren't the majority of the playerbase anymore and the newer people don't know what was like back in the day. So in summary, gaming will get worse as the time goes on and gaming as we used to know is most likely dead.

[@mr.fister4738]

That's why I kinda hate how succesful gaming has become. Imagine how good AAA games would've been if we old school gamers were still the majority...

[@annekristiina7503]

I think they just need to find a good balance between content and microtransactions. Its just never going away by this point. Also a majority of paying gamers are older because we the ones with money to throw away, so some games are always going to try to do some whaling on us. I don't think people have problems with in game purchases as long as the quality and quantity of the content is there. Its when the content falters that you get irritated at the cash store.

[@Kaiji...]

True, current gaming is catering to the massive boom of Gen Z (2005+) that arrived in millions for Fortnite, Among Us, Minecraft and so on. Most have never experienced pre-2019 gaming, unless it was particularly popular (like Zelda BOTW).

[@ylshavazthuee1088]

I stepped away from Triple A games a long time ago. And there are many worthwile games out there that arent trying to shake you down at every turn. Its not all doom and gloom. (ok for the AAA scene it is)

[@Em022]

There were a lot of shit games back then too

[@MushroomEater64]

Gotta love having that "fear of missing out moment" you get while playing your other new games...

[@munch3r2]

November, you're going to blow up if you keep making videos like this

[@walterricardo8314]

Thats the goal i think

[@pedrodecarvalho8648]

Yeah. It's always cool to see a channel change and grow

[@Skywalker_2905]

Please Blow Up 😂

[@StrengthOfSamson45]

Complaining?

[@lh-8530]

@@StrengthOfSamson45😂

[@RenegadePandaZ]

This is why I won't buy any game that requires an internet connection, because even if a game is perfect, if you have to connect, you're giving the publisher full control to do whatever they want. If anything I'd argue that's worse, since after a game generates good press, sales, then they can double down and add a bunch of live service crap later.

[@fuzzzywan]

I'd like to add that the "Graphics Rush" and "Realism Rush" have been adding to this because of the fact that they're making game development more expensive and hence are encouraging developers to aggressively monetize their games like this. It's also making bloated engines more of a bragging right to investors which is why you see "compiling shaders" in every modern game. The simple workaround to having "compiling shaders" screens, aka the workaround Minecraft uses is to use a library like GLFW, BGFX, SDL, or GLFW which is much cheaper in terms of development costs but the investors don't like it. Another problem with bloated game engines and top-of-the-line graphics is that they are the two biggest contributors of workplace exploitation in the video game industry. Nvidia is honestly the biggest thing to blame for gamings decline and probably wont be selling GPUs to consumers anymore due to both business reasons and legal issues about giving consumers AI. Nvidia isn't a gaming company anymore, they're a business company, like Oracle for instance. Hell, they're even expected to be the most profitable company in the world in the next few years. Honestly I think that "realism" is a thing of the past in video games and wasn't ever a desirable thing in the first place. Honestly, I don't game too much anymore unless I'm with my friends, but it is interesting to keep up with the industry. I used to play Rainbow 6 and have wanted to get into it again but the two things that have prevented me from doing so are one, lack of Keyboard & Mouse support on console because PC Rainbow 6 is a joke, and two, live service BS like this that ruins competitive gameplay.

[@nightmarepotato5000]

The thing I personally find negative about this "realism" is that it has come at the cost of game mechanics and depth (physics being an easy example). So many of these releases are almost like a museum item behind glass - look but do not touch because it might break.

[@TheLetterJ13]

​@@nightmarepotato5000this is why Valve is still praised after 25 Years. because they don't do this type of bullshit. As Gabe-N Once Said: "I don't prioritize Realism in games because Realism does not equal Fun, and i play games for Fun."

[@asherlito3801]

I quit video games because of live service and while I didn't realize it at the time that was definitely the reason. Gaming felt like a job more then entertainment. So I quit and found new hobbies and I am happier.

[@toakovika]

Just fuck live service shit, play the games you enjoy. :)

[@mathewhosier9739]

Only like 10% of modern games are live service, stop playing AAA multiplayer trash shooters, there are plenty of great single player, AA and indie games with zero microtransactions

[@BraxonGG]

Hey, fair nuff If you ever consider coming back, I would wholeheartedly recommend looking into emulation A 20 year old dead game can't really be predatory lol

[@Sergito800]

the whole "this game feel like work" part was me with WoW for a long time, i had lots of fun with it doing raids with a guild but the amount of time that feel wasted on it is massive! i learned my lesson with AAA developers and nowadays i mostly pay Japanese games, "AA" games or indies and im discovering so many new games, stories and experiences in general that have no psichological exploit on sight hehe when i finished Persona 5 the first time i got that feeling you described of "NO IT CANT END! I NEED MORE!" and i ended up finding more...in fan fics...ive read stuff my friends...the things i found in these sites...it still haunts me

[@thegamesforreal1673]

The AA scene releases many surprisingly awesome titles, but the problem there is AA is dying in numbers. Indies don't catch the attention of the wider AAA market because they're not big enough to be a bother, but AA studios quickly get bought out by AAA publishers because they threaten to become another big player on the market if they see too much success. This is why we see stuff happening like microsoft buying minecraft when it gets too big. Minecraft, originally an indie made by one guy, which grew into a decently sized AA studio, and is now under the handling of one of the biggest corporations on the planet...

[@coolremedy6969]

Thank you for making me extremely depressed and ruining my day. Take my like and sub. Everyone has to look reality in the face once in a while, as shitty as it may be. I have a group of friends that have been playing Overwatch since 2016, and I try and discourage the others from buying skins in the shop, reminding them of when we could earn everything in OW1 just from playing the game. They cringe and call me "elitist" or "hipster" and tell me to "get off my high horse" before throwing their money at a game that has now canceled it's promised features in favor of pumping out seasonal, monetized, FOMO-driven content. You can't hate Balenciaga for putting ridiculously overpriced clothing on the market, you can only laugh at the idiots that buy it.

[@rayfinkle2662]

It's truly a hell of our own creation.

[@Bramptonboy2006]

Wow that’s crazy really does suck and glad I never spent any money on Overwatch 2

[@ItsReallyJCole]

Uh I think the stigma behind Balenciaga is more than it’s overpriced 😳

[@samvimes9510]

I think you need to find some new friends

[@jacklancaster3531]

They're not really friends then, how can they call you an elitist? It's not like you're gatekeeping the game, you're just suggesting not to buy a skin. So unfair on you, you need new friends or they need to treat you better.

[@hereticalpaintjobs]

I've been saying the video game market is going to crash again when I saw the stuff EA were pulling, but I hardly believed it myself and just said it as a joke Nowadays with how vide gaming is, it's inevitable

[@myworms]

EA conditioned us to accept incomplete games, when we should have collectively said that this is unacceptable and boycotted companies like them and Activision/Blizzard. Until you hurt a corporation where their wallet is, nothing will change.

[@lastronin9047]

It will happen eventually. People will get sick of it one day. I think I heard that hogwarts legacy 2 will be online service. Considering how successful the first one was the second one will pretty much tank just like suicide squad kill the justice league

[@LudosErgoSum]

I similar trend can be seen in the world of crowdfunding board games. The games themselves are mediocre or terrible, with little time spent actually designing the game. Instead it's stuffed to the brim with content such ad enticing artwork (usually birds or animorphs), deluxe components, minis and plenty of expansions, and other (mostly useless) add-ons. The perfect FOMO-package cash-grab. They are created to sell, not to be played. They are PRODUCTS not games.

[@roycrownguard]

The ruined progression system is what saddens me most. I played lots of fighting games on ps2, wasn't really good, but tried my best and when i unlocked a new character? Awesome. Unlockables are so, so often behind a paywall now and I miss the days when I could unlock things via grind

[@anonymous-wk1nh]

New characters/skins now are worthless. Not just because games are absolutely swamped by literally hundreds of them, but also because if you have enough money, you can easily buy it, just like that. It's meaningless. No story behind getting it that makes it feel rewarding or special. When you see someone with a cool character, there's no appreciation for the hard work put into getting it, because there is none. And even if you grind to get a character (which is almost always an afterthought and a chore), there's nothing to show for your hard work because someone could click a couple buttons and just buy the exact same character with no effort.

[@smeissner328]

When game companies started implementing things like seasonal content, I was very unhappy. I was in high school and had next to no money, so I had buy games a few years after launch, when they came down in price. Seasonal content meant that by the time I got the game, I would have already missed out on several seasons' worth of content. Now, I'm grateful that this started when I was young and broke. It soured the concept for me from the start, and I'm very thankful that I was fortunate enough to avoid getting hooked on the exploitative live service model. It makes me sad to think of how great games could be if the thousands of developers at these big studios were actually focused on producing content that gamers will love. I tried Destiny 2 a while back, and it has incredibly fun gunplay. For me, the combat loop is highly enjoyable. But I hate everything else about how the game works. Back in the mid-2000s, I was a huge Bungie fanboy. I loved Halo, and I loved Bungie for creating it. Now the name of Bungie leaves nothing but a sour taste in my mouth. I hope that more gamers will realize how greedily and shamelessly AAA producers are milking every possible dollar from them. Then we may see some change. Until then, I'll be sticking to my old single-player and co-op games, and indie devs who give a damn about the player.

[@embelished_meister500]

In the words of the Act Man himself- “Live service is the death of creativity.”

[@PowerfulRift]

Exactly

[@nickthompson1812]

Not even sure I agree. Those season passes have a ridiculous amount of creative cosmetics in them. If you want an example of how creativity is dying, look towards remasters and remakes. Nothing like selling $60 copies of a game you made 15 years ago!

[@Vase94]

​@@nickthompson1812Don't try to detract from the main issue 😂

[@drolzak7]

The funny thing about all of this, is that at some point the attention these live-service games crave, can't be divided anymore, and so the profits will stop gaining. Live-service will exhaust itself, in a too many cooks way, similar to MMOs who already struggle with growth due to there being too many to grab the attention of a newbie. They will become a trope and a black stain in the gaming community, the end.

[@serioserkanalname499]

I love how for literally every problem with the gaming industry, you can have half the video be about Destiny 2.

[@flamebrindger3984]

At this point I pray that an old franchise doesn't come back so it doesn't get ruined with modern practices. Indie games, and older games (a few AA games to an extent) just feel more like a complete package. The amount of free additional content updates you get from indie games is wild in comparison to AAAs, live service games, and mmos.

[@rz1_1221]

Just look at No Man's Sky vs a AAA title like Battlefield 2042, for example. The content difference is staggering!

[@Brown95P]

For months on end now, my enjoyment for gaming has completely burned out to the point that I'd rather just sleep the day away instead, and part of the reason is that it's been incredibly difficult to go back to games I liked but are either a herculean task to catch up to or are outright on life support. The only reason I've been able to find a yearning for gaming again after all that time is that I've started playing old single-player games that are high-integrity yet friendly to pick-up & play who I never got around to when I was invested in long and drawn-out games for weeks -- which included live service games, as they are oh-so wont to stretch and draw out, but also included otherwise-incredible stuff like Elden Ring. Games nowadays seem to have forgotten their old goldilocks zone of high-integrity *_and_* friendly to pick-up & play, and while mobile games are laughably all about the latter without any of the former, PC games on the other hand may at least be a bit more high-integrity by comparison -- and even that much is debatable -- but are just way too chunky for any reasonable person to come back to (whether it be drawn-out campaigns, end-game grinding and/or toiling away at constant battle passes). It's really sad that modern gaming is now mostly divided in two opposing extremes; it's either something you only really pick up during commuting or it's something you have to invest yourself into for weeks and weeks, with no noticeable or reasonable in-between.

[@LauraBow]

I remember people warning us about the live service bs years ago but they were ignored if not yelled at. They were completely correct. Personally I started ignoring tripple a crap and drifted towards smaller indie games. I can recommend some stuff for anyone who wants to escape the mainstream: Bugsnax, Live A Live, Killer Frequency, Everhood, etc. I've found some interesting stuff through alpha beta gamer's and manlybadasshero's channel

[@cheatboy111]

you should check out Zortch. it's a shooter inspired by fps games of the late 90s and early 2000s. it's fun and has a pretty cool grimy aesthetic to it.

[@trevorbarrows8446]

im 28 and I quit playing games that aren't good or charge for shit that should be free(so 99%). bought a camera and a guitar. very happy

[@ziebus904]

Define should be free.....

[@trevorbarrows8446]

@@ziebus904 halo infinite and the armor color blue. A cosmetic option that was free and available day 1 for every previous title of that series.

[@ziebus904]

@@trevorbarrows8446 so...a 1skin....

[@happyjam92]

I just simply won't play a live service game now. I miss when you bought a game and that was it, sometimes you paid for dlc if you wanted the newest maps, things were unlocked from skill and skill alone. I'd love to play online again but the options are pitiful that have decent player bases.

[@literallylaw]

YES BROTHER. Preach. Agree with every point you made. Love watching you diversify from just Destiny focused content. Keep it up bro.

[@NovemberHotel]

Thank you bro will do! 🤙🏼

[@Lethal_Venom]

I still play Destiny but I jumped off the fomo hamster wheel a long time ago when I finally saw this game for what it is. I play for what’s left of a story ( pathetic story telling on Bungies part) to finish off the light / dark saga then I’m washing my hands of this game. I’m looking forward a lot to starfield

[@ehschargers6510]

I was going to finish off the saga but I dont think I will. I'm a d1 vet and its a shame what it has become. I really hope Starfeild succeeds because games are just no fun these days.

[@jlopez240gaming7]

@@ehschargers6510it breaks my heart cause I’ve been invested into destiny since it’s beta. But my god seeing what the game has become, I can’t play it anymore. It’s not fun, it’s the same shit they drip feed us over and over. And I’m done.

[@AppleWasMyIdea]

November, i just wanna say as a long time viewer, keep bringing out these banger videos. The quality if them just keeps getting better and better. Bravo good sir.

[@NovemberHotel]

Thank you 🙏🏻

[@emmanuelzozobrado5981]

these game devs are taking advantage of the consumerism mindset of the gamers

[@mordicai4296]

I'm an indie dev working on my first big multiplayer game. I need to pay for servers, API usage, Lamborghinis, helicopters, etc. I like the idea of live service because I love my game and I want to continually breathe life into my creation. I play D2 and WoW and I don't mind paying for in-game bling, what gets me about these games is that they don't respect your time. They are impossible to pick up and put down...

[@nickthompson1812]

Just letting you know, paying for in game bling is probably the biggest waste of money I can think of. Might as well light it on fire, the fire might be prettier!

[@shatteredakuma]

People really need to look inward. Not enough people realize theyre the reason gaming is like this. The consumer is to blame for the state of modern gaming, i never see this argument being substantiated. Love the vid

[@anustinnewsam13]

I’ve had all of these thoughts about gaming the past two years and you just clarified them completely! I’ve created a huge PS3 library backlog of old single player games I missed out on back in the day and I couldn’t be happier. It’s also turned me into a trophy hunter because I like the feeling of completion. Thanks for this video!

[@MacAndSheeeeesh]

I still remember watching “Games as a Service is Fraud” by Accursed Farms. When I watched it, I figured the game industry was going downhill somewhat similar to the video game crash. Luckily enough, indie games are picking up some of the slack.

[@cursedimageseveryday5559]

The worst thing about season and battlepasses is that you eventually have to work for something you have already paid for 😂

[@mistaowickkuh6249]

Worst part is, these shill consumers started to go after good developers and their actually good games now. They are like 4th wall breaking npcs who get out of their shitty games and they try to destroy the few good ones.

[@jjhervey4153]

Never played Mass Effect until recently and the feeling of beating that game was incredible and so refreshing because the game was the focus.

[@lycanwarrior2137]

The irony of the FF7 physical game that was shown in the video was that the copy I had contained a game breaking bug that prevent me from completing it.

[@zenraged]

Man, you make excellent videos. This is my second one watching and just subscribed. So many good points, and screenshots of relevant articles. Really good work man, I hope gaming starts to change. People gotta stop giving them their money.

[@NovemberHotel]

Thanks man appreciate it!

[@esco8778]

Battlefield 2042 was my last mistake. I haven't bought another game at launch other than Baldur's Gate since then. Baldur's Gate has been such a breath of fresh air. I've also been loving the downfall of Overwatch 2. While sad to see Overwatch go, they're getting what they deserve.

[@TheAssassinscreedpro]

I 100% Completely Agree With This Video! Been feeling like this since 2019, specifically when Modern Warfare 2019 released. I am, once again, a solo/single player guy, permanently. Been sticking with Indie games and old single player games mainly as well.

[@GucciPasta]

yes yes yes i 100% agree with this take , glad it’s getting mainstream attention. thank you for covering this topic as i feel like more consumers should be informed as to what this generation of gaming has came to.

[@NoName-jz8fe]

problem is that live service is a promise from a developer to improve the game once it is released. However that is rarely what ends up happening, where the developers drop the games when they dont improve their profit margins. They have gotten it backwards.

[@islambotlan1054]

no shit sherlock

[@Franku40keks]

Well if it sells like shit, it's probably not worth improving anyway.

[@islambotlan1054]

@@Franku40keks I don't even blame them they're making money anyways. It's people that are dumb as shit

[@NoName-jz8fe]

@@Franku40keks Diablo 4 sold 11 million copies and they knew in beta that everyone and their mother wanted a gem tab and a way to zoom out. So far its only happened 6 months after release which is absurd for a game that had 9000 developers.

[@CeezGeez]

the devs don’t care about profit margins. unless you mean execs. devs prob want to make the best game they can.

[@karlosp3dro65]

there's a live service game that avoids these problems and u get what u pay for its called Deep Rock Galactic. One of the few remaining amazing games left with fun gameplay and very good progression I recommend DRG to everyone

[@dark_ghost7327]

Rock abd Stone ! XD

[@Dumbface_Timelost]

A very rock and stone and anti leaf lover take

[@n0t_UN_Owen]

Also, the devs are very ethical with monetization. They make sure that the cosmetic DLCs they give out are worth it and cheap. Secondly, they listen to the community. During season 2, the community wanted GK2 to get buffed and it arrived in season 3. Same thing can be said about the subata buff since that sht bussin now. Lastly, players get a shout out depending on how well they perform in game for a month (as if you were an employee). Every month, the billboard shows an "employee of the month" and it's a REAL player who performed well and it's the Dev's way of appreciating their playerbase.

[@karlosp3dro65]

@@dark_ghost7327 ROCK AND STONE!

[@TannerLindberg]

You people are the problem Drg is doing the same thing just 10% less scummy so you praise it as something good.

[@Spicypuff]

There's a reason why although I love monster hunter world, the fomo that it introduced really ended up bumming me out so much that it ended up leaving a bad taste in my mouth and souring the excitement I would've had for rise. Thankfully rise seems to have not followed world in that regard.

[@hunt7533]

Wdym fomo? You can get everything in the game now, the event stuff is permanent and there's still a lot of people playing it, you can even play it offline whenever you want.

[@myworms]

The part where you talk about a game feeling like a job really resonates with me. I’ve been playing MLB the Show for the last seven years, and it’s something I can’t take breaks from, because the game requires you to grind and collect from launch through the end of the year, and then repeat once April rolls around. I’m playing on their time, not mine, and it’s all because of this live service model. I hate being stuck in this cycle, and you articulated why it sucks so much.

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

The best any of us can hope for is that a game we like has live service elements that aren't as egregious as others. Luckily, there are examples, but they're few and far between.

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

@@RobertLutece909 I'm not saying I support all live services. MOST get it wrong. SOME get it right. And I'm glad there are classic and indie titles available, those are also great. Never said they weren't.

[@kr0-ng576]

To toss my 2 cents out there Final Fantasy 14 is genuinely a great game while being a subscription based live service. I’ve been playing for about a year now and it’s a huge breath of fresh air!

[@kingechatronii7379]

The funny thing is, everytime I see a finished game that is 99.9% bug-less and content-wise finished I see people complaining that the updates have stopped. That's why live-service came into play for player retention and is so popular with developers atm. So the gaming community partially contributed to why new games are becoming live-service now. Not saying I support how most developers make live-service games, but I'm just saying that this was inevitable.

[@damon3095]

I blame that on gamers not knowing any better since that's most likely all they know.

[@TannerLindberg]

Gamers are the main ones to blame for the state of the industry l. Never foget gatekeeping is a great thing

[@lukebytes5366]

I'd like to hear who actually said this. Cause when people wanted more out of a game, usually that meant they wanted a sequel.

[@autobotstarscream765]

The brainwashing has taken hold.

[@simplysmiley4670]

To be fair, older games with full modding suport, do what live service came in shouting it's gonna do, way better, because it's players doing whatever they want for whoever wants to try it. Be it from something as simple as a level editor for a singleplayer game to custom community servers in a multiplayer game. If a game gives players the tools to continue on their own, the game will live on, on it's own for however long the players deem fit. And at this point asking for a live service game to allow modding even slightly would be like asking the company itself to politely remove their microtransactions. Never gonna happen at this point.

[@pikmaniac2643]

I suggest you give Deep Rock Galactic a try. I find that it’s everything that Live Service could be if developers and publishers genuinely wanted a good experience for their players first.

[@aVeryAngryMoth]

I agree, DRG’s live service is what the industry norm should be, not to mention the incredible gameplay at the base. Also, ROCK AND STONE BROTHER!

[@tosutaa]

If you don't Rock and Stone, you ain't comin' home!

[@AMoistEggroll]

FOR ROCK AND STONE!

[@imnoncreative1233]

Rock and stone is fantastic. The other game series I would recommend for a good more classic style single player experience is the yakuza franchise. Heck for Yakuza 7 they changed their game to a turn based one because they made an april fools post about it and it got so much hype they changed their game to turn based because thats what fans wanted.

[@marchus9004]

ROCK AND STONE!

[@ChariTT]

What a fantastic video. A summary of the video game industry in a nutshell, telling FACTS

[@SkylineFTW97]

I'll take tryhards and elitists over NPCs and Whales any day. I was in middle school when Black Ops 1 came out. My dad and I played it constantly, it was a genuinely entertaining game. And it kept you addicted without FOMO.

[@Superunknown190]

“When you launch a LSG at launch it’s going to suck, and that’s okay.” Okay, then I don’t ever want to hear a dev or exec ever complain again when nobody buys your sh*t at launch if that’s the attitude you’re going to take. No more complaining about day 1 sales, or lack of preorders, etc.

[@YS420X]

I just won't buy a game from somebody who tells me that, PERIOD. I don't have time to go on some bs journey to get a working game. Glad I never got into destiny

[@MuscledRMH]

The whole idea of live service was that our content packed launch products would only be expanded on even more with consistent updates and content drops but instead we are just being screwed over and are getting new game release that offer the bare minimum while keeping content out of launch product just to release it post-launch. It's not always finishing development post-launch, it's also leaving content out ON PURPOSE. For example, COD used to launch with so many maps, modes and weapons only for them to release their games with almost half the amount of maps and modes every year with the same modes being dripfed literally every year.

[@FlamespeedyAMV]

And yet they are making more money than ever

[@edhero4515]

It's not about what service games could offer, it's about what service games definitely prevent.

[@3gearrc]

Nothing like grinding for 8 months to find a super rare weapon drop just to have its damage nerfed to 50% a week after you finally get it...

[@captainzib]

I love this video. I wish people understood that live service games are psychologically abusive to their players by design.

[@troyav]

We needed that. You and Aztecross video will hopefully wake a lot people up on this. Great job. Thank you.

[@senormarston]

Those who defend multimillion corporate and their bad products must really need to feel part of a group or didn't receive love from their parents because there is no way a normal and healthy person would have these attitudes

[@Xristoforos41493]

The 16-bit and 64-bit days were the best. I wish we could go back sometimes. Gaming was more of a peripheral, an escape at the end of the day, and not an alternative to real life. They have people addicted to the immersion and escape now.

[@gogetaa11]

It's been sad to see how far the live service game has fallen. I've been replaying fallout new Vegas lately and it shows just how much games used to give you. Both in games that have lots of replayability and those that are just one offs. I will say as it's both an example of bad live service and some progression in positive monetization, I like that Halo Infinite at least has battle passes that don't expire. Been playing season 4 working through my season 2 battle pass. Hopefully companies return to multiplayer games that will eventually end, but it's a start. Really good content bro, keep it up!

[@lukem9934]

Keep up the good work man. Proud of your success on here. Miss yah. Hope we one day resume the gaming. Just need a good game 😂

[@NovemberHotel]

Thank you bro I really appreciate that. Been workin hard on these vids. I also wanna return to some fun game nights sometime. Would be awesome.

[@serballista]

I knew I was at my limit with the state of things when Halo Infinite launched in the state it did.

[@EpicDuskk]

"Its just cosmetics" has always bothered me because unlocking cosmetics through gameplay was a huge part of what made them fun. Thats why game devs monetized it so heavily, because people like them. If they didnt matter, nobody would spend real money on them

[@isaachopkins296]

Not gonna lie the whole love service has completely burnt me out on gaming and is stopped playing. I barely pick up the controller anymore and when I do it's usually for older games. I went found a hobby I can enjoy and I suggest others just move on too

[@HyperAlexis1s]

Thank you for exposing Bungie’s inconsistency, im about to research more about behavior psychology

[@bradhackworth5109]

Black Ops 2 was the best COD game, I believe. My brothers and I played endlessly and we would get mad if/when one of us would Prestige without all of us being in agreement to continue to the next Prestige level. It was also the only COD that I bought map packs for, which I bought all of them. We had so much fun playing all the content there, the worst part was waiting your turn to play. Those were the days of some great gaming.

[@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778]

now look what happened to cod..... I hate operators so much.

[@salskapsspill8099]

Why wait on turns? All gamemodes except campain had splitscreen! Me and my friends played 4 players all the time.

[@bradhackworth5109]

@@salskapsspill8099 Should have seen our tv! It was so small that when we played 4-player zombies, we were all literally 2-3 feet away from it.