I Was A Calvinist Until...

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, briefly explains how he stopped letting Calvinistic teachers study for him. Once he began studying the Bible and being a good Berean, he found Calvinism to be far less compelling.
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[@MyWerttrew]

If you need 12 years of seminary, a PhD and a Masters in Theology to explain the Gospel you might be a Calvinist.

[@mtac99]

I was a Calvinist until I read This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3‭-‬4 NASB1995

[@stove2717]

God could have squashed the snake in the garden before the temptation occurred. He let it happen. Don’t belittle God with your “would He be sad” or “could He have…” dude He is so much mightier than us we just glean what we can from His Almighty Knowledge and goodness bank, and piece it together through His Spirit and through His Word. The what if game is vanity

[@mtac99]

@@bobhawkins2997 If God is God, he can certainly do whatever he pleases. The context for this discussion is whether or not man has the free will to trust God. Regarding the passage, do you believe man has free will or do you believe the scripture is false when it says Good desires all men be saved?

[@kenchilton]

@@mtac99 I believe both - man has free will. Man uses his free will to eat from the wrong tree. Man uses free will to curse God. Man uses every skill and knowledge to remove God from his life. Man sure has free will. Will man use his free will to find God? Not the fallen man in his natural state. 1Tim 2:3 follows right after Paul explains that we should pray for all people, including kings. This is Paul's usual message, that God is not just the God of Jews, but also of the Greek. Not of the rich only, but also the slave. So, after Paul tells Timothy to pray for all people, even kings, he said God desires all men to be saved. There are three possibilities: "All men" is every person on the planet, and if God wanted all men, I am sure the Creator could convince everyone if he wanted to and not one time "violate their free will". (BTW, the Bible never says God will not violate any free will.) He created the place, knows everyone, knows more than everyone, can send angels, can do miracles -- I am sure he can be orders of magnitude better than me and my puny Bible if he stepped in. But, he obviously does _not_ mean every person on the planet. If your God can't do something, maybe he is too small. What is not required to be read into these two verses in isolation is that God really wants everyone to be saved, but because of some rule we invented cannot accomplish it. If my son wanted to jump off of a bridge, you can trust that I will violate the life out of his free will - I see my Lord willing and able to do no less for me. So, if not everyone, then who are "all men"? Well, maybe people of every class, every race, and status. This has more merit than every person, since it actually fits the whole context of 2:1-8, and does not allow for us to do all things through a verse taken out of context. I don't know why people don't look back and forward a few verses to figure out every time Paul uses "all" without just jumping to some Universalism conclusion. Even in the Old Testament the salvation of the Gentiles was proclaimed, and the New is no less concerned about who "all" is, who is our neighbor, and what it means to be God's servant to man. A third possibility is that the "all men" is not the point, but a distinction between the different wills of God. There are different ways in which God speaks of his will according to theology. He could be saying by "desires" that this is what he prefers, or he is saying that this is what he commands. We may say we prefer something and not get it, but how can an all-powerful, sovereign God get locked out of his own creation so that he could not get something he desired? Is this saying that God messed up when he created things and somehow mismanaged it, so that now his desires return empty?? If we understand that his desire is in effect the desire of the Lord and a royal decree, this says that men are supposed to be saved by his command, and by not coming to knowledge of truth they are not doing what is good and acceptable in the sight of God. Otherwise, this is what is referred to as God's Perfect Will (e.g. Romans 12:2) that describes an ideal condition that will not be completed or met but is provided to orient and drive us. We are to pray for everyone, because wouldn't it be great if everyone would just get along and believe, know God, obey all the commandments and feed the poor, orphan, and widow, and do all those other things exactly perfectly... Yes, that is also the idea. God's desire is the compass to set our wills by, knowing that the end is not the goal but the direction, morality, and principle. We are to pray for everyone, no matter who, because God wants us to seek every possible good for them, including salvation and knowing truth. Here is a question: if you pray for them, will they now believe, be saved, and come to the knowledge of truth? If not, why pray for them? If so, what did God do? Why pray at all, if God cannot change things -- and most of what we pay for is for God to change people? We pray because God changes hearts. God interferes with their will and with their world. Do we pray because God won't know about something until we tell him? God can't see? He did not want to and then we convinced him, because we think better or morally superior to God? Figure out why we pray, then you may think differently about the consequences of "desires all men to be saved".

[@mtac99]

@@bobhawkins2997 Let me begin by acknowledging your polite tone. I hope you will detect the same from me That said, I have a higher view of God than you. Your presuppositions require universalism because of (your) God's inability to create men with free will. Your argument depends on total depravity (and Christ's inadequacy). Take for example Matthew 11 where Jesus says "come to me." If total depravity is true, Jesus could not have been speaking to anyone. It was a joke. No one could respond without God violating their will. No one could come. He was sitting to no one. Who is shaping scripture to match their theology? The one who reads "God desires all men to be saved" and concludes "Got desires all men to be saved," or the one who needs 300 words to explain "God desires all men to be saved" to mean God does not desire all men to be saved. Calvinism is heresy and a disgusting insult to the nature of God. If you're wrong, you should be ashamed. If I'm wrong, it doesn't matte. I'm only doing what I was made to do. I was a Calvinist. Discovering 1 Timothy 2: 3-4 set me free

[@goldenspoon87]

Limited atonement is not biblical.

[@martindeleon9863]

I personally came to faith by reading the Bible for myself (specifically when I got to Matthew 24) All I knew was Gods word. So when it came across different denominations, it was a sort of culture shock for me, especially Calvinism… I just couldn’t wrap my head around why people didn’t just follow what is in scripture..

[@macherie1943]

I came to faith as a child, went my own way for a time, came back to faith in my early 20's, and now in my mid 30's am still in culture shock with all the different denominations 😂 I thought bible college would help but still feel discouraged that i don't really fit into a church and the various doctrines taught. I guess I'm non denominational and just try make do in a church I don't fully agree with. I Just have to keep coming back to the fundamentals and let go of the rest but its really difficult for my personality type 😁

[@chironow3446]

It’s because they’re franchises and use denomination as a term.

[@brianfloresta2986]

There are people who do follow what is just in scripture, we call them Calvinists.

[@Lorac-wb7io]

@@macherie1943 feel the same as you

[@biagiomaffettone1497]

@@brianfloresta2986 Can you point us o scriptures which define Limited atonement ??? Please help us poor saps with your spiritual wisdom

[@MrBowser2012]

I accepted Jesus as my savior 3 years ago. I had a basic understanding of Calvinism but it wasn’t until our men’s discipleship this week where the message was on election that I started having serious concerns about it. I’m so glad I found this channel and can get a different point of view from that of the church I’m attending. Thank you!

[@SaneNoMore]

I had this very same issue. I thought to myself that so many highly educated and Godly men are Calvinist that surely I wasn't one simply because I was somehow ignorant. In fact I've heard multiple Calvinist actually say that those who are non-Calvinist simply don't have a good understanding of Scripture. It took quite a bit of study and time to finally realize these statements were just pure arrogance.

[@danreich4320]

Figuring out that Calvinism was bunk was such a relief. I’m so glad God is not a capricious maniac. If you wanted to make God in the image of man Calvinism is the way to go.

[@STAR-RADIANCE]

Man! You got that right.

[@saiyasho16]

Man you summed it up perfectly!

[@TheEngineer19]

More like image of satan..

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

What a man believes about the nature and desires of the God he worships will inevitably be acted out towards his fellow man. This is why John Calvin could execute those who disagreed with his theology without regretting his actions. He believed he was doing God a favor and just saving him the time. This is not unique to Calvinism. History is replete with similar atrocities in the name of many “religions”, Christian and Pagan alike. However, all of Christ's words and actions while here on earth as recorded in the gospels are a perfect demonstration of God's true love and desire towards man. Ironically, John Calvin's assumptions are not to be found among them.

[@josephthomasmusic]

@@urfriend919 Hahaha why are you posting this straw man in response to almost every non-Calvinist's comment? Sounds like you're perpetuating another calvinist stereotype, which is to oversimplify and straw man the provisionist point of view ad absurdum. 😏

[@inTruthbyGrace]

"Share Christ and Show Love!" amen.

[@kevinwells7080]

I had a doctor friend who advised people to avoid obstetricians who referred for abortions. His feeling was that, if you can’t get “human life is inherently valuable and begins at conception” right as, basic as it is, then that colors your whole practice. Honestly I feel the same way about Calvinist scholars and teachers. If original authorial intent is not more important to you than religious tradition (however ancient and honored it may seem), and if you get the nature of God so fantastically wrong, I don’t feel you have anything to teach me that I can’t get from someone else who’s basic theology isn’t so distorted

[@truthseeker5698]

If original authorial intent is not more important to you than religious tradition (however ancient and honored it may seem), and if you get the nature of God so fantastically wrong, I don’t feel you have anything to teach me that I can’t get from someone else who’s basic theology isn’t so distorted, ...Amen. So well stated Kevin. Be encouraged.

[@oilofgladness3474]

You took the words right out of my mouth! Thank you It really doesn’t take a deep study to plainly see how evil Calvin was. Why would anyone want to be taught by him? His past congregation had no choice! He would kill them. Today people are wrapping his false teaching around them willingly. My gosh people! Think! 🧠

[@primeobjective5469]

We're called to "test the spirits, to see if they are of God". Calvinism does not allow for such a test.

[@madcow9421]

Yes because every spirit is from god. No test required

[@primeobjective5469]

@@madcow9421 - Making the text, void & mensingless, like the rest of the Scriptures.

[@mrgeorge1888]

You are blaspheming now, if you say that the calvinist's spirit is not of God. Read I John 4 : 2, the next verse of the one you quoted. Be careful brother, and I am not even a calvinist.

[@lancesteinke3732]

@@urfriend919 that’s an odd strawman there my friend. Do you think it’s cognitive dissonance that causes you to do that? Perhaps a different type of cognitive discomfort that I don’t have a word for? I have looked into Calvinism, and the more that I deal with it the less tenable Calvinism seems to be. Don’t let your emotions control you friend.

[@mrgeorge1888]

@@urfriend919 OMG, you have just booked yoursrlf a ticket to hell. Repent, don't waste your eternal life over your spiritual stupid misrepresentation thinking. Read Matt 12 : 32 and fear God for heaven sake.

[@BrotherDave80]

Calvinism and all its endless versions are strange and nothing i feel led to embrace for any reason.

[@wynandl.oberholzer1702]

Not in Scripture=Do not embrace.

[@jimrogers3911]

God isn't the author of confusion. When I read the word of God, I do not see deterministic Calvinism at all. I do find passages when read in context make sense and is in line with the nature of God. The essence of Calvinism is a contradiction to the God I read in scripture. I can't imagine being taught this as a new believer. How confused some must be. God bless everyone.

[@samsomhull2701]

Well said. May God bless you 😇😇😇

[@wendewithane4830]

So confusing

[@jtd3421]

This is the first video of yours I have seen. As you can imagine, every time I see a new person on KZbin talking about theology, I'm super skeptical and trying to discern if this is a trustworthy person. While only time will tell, your humility is evident and I very much appreciate the way you communicate. Thank you for this level-headed take.

[@bobbyadkins6983]

@@aletheia8054 Kenneth Copeland is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[@jackgtx440]

Just be careful. His ministry is centered around trying to prove God isn’t sovereignly in control of all things, all the while claiming he thinks God is more sovereign than Reformed theology preaches. I’m writing this reply while listening to this video and he basically just denied the doctrine of original sin, while calling everyone to be Bereans. Just be careful.

[@larrybedouin2921]

@@jackgtx440 Nonsense! You bare a false witness.

[@calvinholt5630]

Join the church with full authority over scripture, the Catholic Church!

[@bobbyadkins6983]

@@calvinholt5630 God has complete authority over His Word.

[@EdLowe-lz2fo]

I cannot express how thankful I am for your work. Moreover, your overall demeanor speaks just as much as to the truth that you hold too. Keep on giving them heaven. Looking forward to when you'll be here at the church at some point in bringing the Word. Give em heaven buddy...ed.

[@TimothyFish]

What gets me is that there are well educated people who teach people how to do inductive Bible study, but then don't apply those principles when it comes to the Calvinist proof texts.

[@omnitheus5442]

Exactly. Just following their forefathers who created the WCF. Once you start looking up the references you start to see through their theology as firmly rooted in exegetical fallacy.

[@TimothyFish]

@@manassehjones7438, if by "least" you mean uneducated, then how would that avoid a system where we're asking people who can't read how we should understand scripture?

[@darthbigred22]

@@urfriend919 So God can see into the future yet you think there's no predestination? You do see the dilemma here right? In human law if I know you are going to kill someone and you do, and people find out, I go to jail along with you. God knows the future is the actual core of Calvinism because the core argument is if God knows the future then why isn't God saving those people? You say free will, how much free will is there if God makes everything and knows the future? Argue the TULIP points but miss the overall point...All Knowing means God knows the future. It means He knows whether you are going to Heaven or Hell at birth. There are no passages saying "for sporting sake I, God, deny myself the ability to look into the future". Get it now?

[@meanman6992]

Right!!!

[@meanman6992]

The other issue is they’re so convinced and many are arrogant that they won’t actually listen to consider but only to argue cause they know how right they are.

[@Crossifixxo]

I was predestined not to be a Calvinist.

[@dw6528]

BINGO!!! :-D

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

Yes, If Calvinism is true, I was predestined not to believe it. If it is not true,(and it isn't)... then there is still hope for those who think it is.😉

[@dw6528]

@@bobhawkins2997 DW Hello Bob - I hope you are well. Can you answer a question concerning god's decree? Every time you read scripture - a certain PERCEPTION of it comes to pass within your brain. The PERCEPTION that will come to pass - will be the PERCEPTION which god decreed. He has 2 options of what he can decree. Option_1: The PERCEPTION of scripture that will come to pass in your brain will be a TRUE PERCEPTION. Option_2: The PERCEPTION of scripture that will come to pass in your brain will be a FALSE PERCEPTION. QUESTION: How do you know which of those 2 Options he decreed?

[@dw6528]

@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT DW: Hello R.L. In Calvinism - a perception that comes to pass within your brain is technically not "YOUR" perception. In Calvinism you have a concept called "MERE" or "BARE" permission. The definition for "MERE" permission is the standard definition for the term permission. It means - to acquiesce, to let go, to let loose, to allow etc. In Calvinism - this form of permission is considered ANATHEMA as a form of divine permission. In regard to god - Augustine uses the word "Permission" as a replacement word for CAUSE - and Calvin adopts that word usage. Consequently - per Calvinistic sovereignty 1) What is divinely CAUSED is permitted 2) What is NOT divinely CAUSED is NOT permitted. So in Calvinism - concerning anything having to do with creation or the creature - nothing is "MERELY" permitted Thus your brain is not "MERELY" permitted to have its own perceptions. Per the doctrine of decrees - WHATSOEVER perceptions come to pass - are specifically determined at every instance in time within your brain - by the divine decree - which is established by a mind that is external to you. So in Calvinism - you do not have YOUR OWN perceptions. Because that would require those perceptions being "MERELY" permitted - rather than CAUSED.

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

@@dw6528 No matter how they try to massage it the only consistent outcome of Calvinism is absolute determinism and the conclusion that "Man does not matter". The consequences of that are untenable. It is mentally, emotionally, and even physically unhealthy. This is why Calvinists must become impervious to cognitive dissonance. Man cannot live "as if" nothing he thinks or does will ever matter, it brings into question the very reason for being and sows the seeds of despair....not hope. Calvinists water their garden of despair daily. The fact that we are made in the image of God is in direct conflict with that notion.

[@SanguiniustheGreatAngel]

This video came just in time. I’m not a Calvinist, but for the past months I watched and enjoyed John Mcaurther videos. All the videos I watched were helpful to me until, I watched his sermon on Limited Atonement

[@rich1147]

what did he say on limited atonement?

[@lettheriver]

@@rich1147 go watch it.

[@dustinwho4252]

Sounds like your human perspective of what you think is right or wrong kicked in and you didn't let the Bible continue to speak because you were on the right path. Something I don't think you realize is that everyone limits the atonement it's just a question of how much your view limits it. If you don't limit the atonement you're one of the people that say 100% of the people go to heaven and that is obviously as far off as you can get. If Christ died for everyone but it requires us to initiate the acceptance of that you are currently looking at a Works based salvation which is also wrong. Go read Romans. It blows my mind that people that arbitrary human feelings get in the way of what scripture says so they seek out people that found some kind of unbiblical Middle Ground that make them feel better about what they're reading like unfortunately Leighton flowers achieves.

[@rich1147]

@@dustinwho4252 it blows my mind that people believe God would create people to just dam them. Go and understand the real meaning of real love.

[@dustinwho4252]

@@rich1147 there's where your understanding is wrong. God doesn't damn anyone. God allows men to receive the just punishment of their stem and he is glorified in his Justice and mercy. You should be completely in all that you would choose to save any and not damn us all

[@Sirach144]

I love the logic that you use when you say "God's going to punish you for being blind when he decreed your blindness."

[@TheEngineer19]

@@manassehjones7438 i can judge your god too.. your god has many many flaws.. The OP is an example..

[@dw6528]

Yes! Well said! Calvin's god holds the creature accountable for what he decrees the creature to infallibly be. Calvinist sovereignty means - He can create a Calvinist and send that Calvinist to eternal torment in a lake of fire - simply for being the Calvinist that he created.

[@dw6528]

@@TheEngineer19 Yes! Scripture definitely permits the believer to judge gods created by humans :-]

[@ryanmajors6582]

@Manasseh Jones “Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?” ‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭33:11‬

[@dw6528]

@@bobhawkins2997 DW: In relation to divine prerogatives - both Calvin's god and the God of scripture have prerogatives. One primary difference however - is how Calvin's god treats what he knows to be TRUE and what he knows to be FALSE. For example: 1) Calvin's god knows when he decreed Adam to infallibly eat the fruit - that eating the fruit was the only option granted to Adam. 2) Calvin's god also knows that he must decree the *IMPULSE* within Adam's brain to eat the fruit. And he knows that NO ALTERNATIVE *IMPULSE* is possible because it would falsifying the infallible decree - which is NOT possible. 3) Calvin's god also knows that he decreed the *EVENT* of Adam eating the fruit. And he again knows that NO ALTERNATIVE *EVENT* from that which is decreed - is possible because again - that event would falsifying the infallible decree - which is NOT possible. Calvin's god knows all of those things as infallible TRUTHS - because he knows that an infallible decree cannot be falsified. However - while knowing all of those things as infallible TRUTHS - he treats them *AS-IF* they are FALSE. He treats the *IMPULSE* and the *EVENT* of what he infallibly decreed *AS-IF* they were not RENDERED-CERTAIN - and could thus have been OTHERWISE than what he infallibly decreed. He treats Adam *AS-IF* he granted Adam the choice to NOT eat the fruit. He holds Adam accountable for NOT REFRAINING - knowing that REFRAINING was NOT something he permitted Adam to do. The God of scripture - doesn't follow those patterns - even if he had the prerogative to do so. He knows it is not humanly possible to TRUST anyone who functions as Calvin's god does. And the God of scripture is a God who can be TRUSTED.

[@narv639]

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But he ordains or decrees us to do evil ?

[@kenchilton]

No, he does not decree us to do evil. God does not tempt man; man mainly tempts himself and allows himself to be tempted by his own mind, body, and things created. God leaves some men to wallow in their sin - that is what he ordains. He is not creating their evil, nor forcing it upon them. Because God decrees that some will be saved, and not all, then he chose to pass over others. Any choice by God, whether to act or not act, must be something he "ordains" by definition in light of his divine power and knowledge.

[@gotech25]

​@@kenchilton Is this what Paul preached. I'm not ashamed of sovereign election of God choosing some, and passing over the multiple for his glory? Or I'm not ashamed of the gospel, what Jesus did to save us, that is the power of God unto salvation

[@kenchilton]

@@gotech25 Of course Paul wrote the latter. He also taught us that salvation is by grace alone and not through the will of man. Both are true. If you see these things as conflicting, then you probably don’t understand one, the other, or both. By saying that he is not ashamed, Paul is saying that his confidence in the saving work of Jesus as a propitiation for our sins will not bring embarrassment to Paul. Christ’s sinless life and sacrificial death will be sufficient atonement for our sins on the day of judgement. If this were not true, Paul would be ashamed and we would have no hope. We, along with Paul, are not ashamed of the Gospel.

[@gotech25]

@@kenchilton can agree with most of what u said, but the reason Paul wasn't ashamed of the gospel is not God choosing to save whoever God picks, he's not of ashamed to preach it's faith in what Jesus did that saves us, Not God giving faith to one and excluding another from believing. The gospel is the power unto salvation to Everyone that BELIEVES, not who God chooses. God bless over and out

[@kenchilton]

@@gotech25 Yes, the Gospel is salvation to everyone who believes. But, who believes? Smart people? Why don’t all of the smartest scientists and influencers believe? Why does one person believe and his twin brother not? Did you do something special to believe? Is this an accomplishment for you? Did you earn salvation by making yourself believe? Since God obviously exists, and his handiwork is evident throughout Creation, why do you see it and not others? Are you so smart and they so stupid? Who made them stupid and you the genius? Who overcame our sinful blindness and dragged us into the realization that God is indeed God? Paul explains this as well - faith is not our invention; it is a gift from God and whosoever believes will be saved, because Jesus saves, God saves, the Spirit conforms us into the image of the Son, the Spirit leads us, the Spirit removes our heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh. Claiming any part of salvation except being the object of God’s love is blasphemy against the Spirit, because boasting even the tiniest filthy-rag work apart from the work of the Spirit in your salvation would be taking credit for the work of God in you. Yes, you must believe to be saved, but that faith and ability to believe did not originate with you - it is a free gift and we thank our Lord for His mercy who did it all.

[@gintas38]

Indeed. Paraphrasing Jerry Walls - calling a contradiction to be a mystery does not make one pious it makes one confused.

[@dw6528]

I love that quote! And I also love his quote where he calls Calvinists SEMANTIC MAGICIANS Soooooo True!!!!

[@gintas38]

@@dw6528 absolutely! So so true… that one is good too👍

[@clwhite1127]

I wish I had the courage to share this. :(

[@SusannaEspinoza]

Do it

[@therealkev4396]

What's stopping you?

[@dw6528]

Everything in its time! The Lord will build you up. Keep pressing in to what he shows you. Your strength will increase as he builds up your understanding. One aspect of Calvinism that many people over-look and do not recognize - is the human response to the belief in Determinism. It is well understood - that both the Atheist Determinist and the Theological Determinist are forced to live *AS-IF* Determinism is FALSE - in order to retain a sense of human NORMALCY and PERSON-HOOD. So while you are asking the Lord to give you understanding - ask him to open that aspect of Calvinism for you. It will represent an understanding of Calvinism that will answer a thousand questions about why they live in a world of contradictions.

[@eugenejoseph7076]

Unfortunately, do to the insanity of a 'virus' up here in Canada, we were out of fellowship for over one year. After hearing of an opened church, we started attending. It was truly inspiring. The church grew from 200 to over 800 in 11 months. The preaching was very good, but within short few months the preaching started becoming an indoctrination into Calvinism. My wife and I are the only non Calvinistic believers in our Bible study group. I've tried on several occasions to share our understanding of Scripture based on logical reasoning, like, "whosoever?" "not willing that any should perish", only to be told, "well, it doesn't really mean that...what?????" We love these people and we know they love us too, but everything in that church is beginning to feel like a 'cult'. I'm often hear, "that was a good Calvin sermon!" I want to respond with, "actually, I'd rather hear a good CHRISTIAN sermon. Finally, we are in an area where all the churches still obey the stupid rules and we will not go back to a church that has bowed the knee to these increasingly wicked governments. Please pray for us up here in Canada. We are being taken over by a communist political regime. They are now attempting to pass a bill to stop free speech and I believe they will soon label the Gospel as hate speech and will make the Bible illegal to own. This is happening here, in the year of our Lord, 2022.

[@rebekaheager9518]

Wow, I will certainly be praying for you. God bless you and keep you, from Colorado, USA.

[@subversivereality3908]

God bless you Eugene, from Michigan. I'll pray for you Brother.

[@eugenejoseph7076]

@@subversivereality3908 Thank you. That means so much to us.

[@josieklopper8368]

@@eugenejoseph7076 Hi Eugene, I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. Is there not some way that you can connect with a small group (who believes in God's gracious provision in Christ) electronically? Although we are back to gathering as a church in person, our small group meets weekly via Zoom (we are in South Africa). These meetings are such a blessing (studying the Word, encouraging one another and fellowshipping).

[@davidfayfield6594]

Yeah gene I agree. This so called ‘virus’ killed about 39000 of your fellow Canadians. Not enough to keep me out of church !

[@yvonnedoulos8873]

We must remember that pride plays a huge role in keeping believers in false teaching. Our pride prevents us from humbling ourselves to the possibility of being wrong in some aspects of our theology. It has been my experience, having been a member of a PCA church for over a decade, that many Calvinists are unwilling to even consider other theological perspectives, especially concerning soteriological issues. It comes dangerously close to cult-like thinking, in my estimation. So grateful for those Christian leaders, of which Dr. Flowers is one, who boldly proclaim a more biblical perspective!

[@sunshinegirl1967]

I too was raised in the Presbyterian church but luckily for me I never listened to one thing they said! However I have been infected by calvinitis and have to daily fight the thought that God doesn't love me and it's no use to try.

[@eugenejoseph7076]

Because of COVID restrictions 2 years ago, our home church went fanatic about masks, social distancing, no touching, spraying sanitizer everywhere, it became clear these people lived in constant fear of catching what turned out to be a bad flu. I guess they missed the verse that reminds believers that He has not given us a spirit of FEAR, but of power, love and sound mind! Anyway, we stopped going for our sanity. After a whole year of being away from fellowship, we were told of a church that stayed opened and ignored the stupid mandates and continued to worship in accordance to Hebrews to 'not forsake the gathering of yourselves'. It was truly awesome to worship with other believers, free from fear and filled with a zeal for Jesus we had never experienced before in our 35 years of marriage. But as the restrictions lifted the preacher started preaching Calvinistic doctrines. We never realized, until we started sharing that we are not Calvinists, what a 'cult' like feeling we get from them whenever we disagree with the sermons. They keep saying over and over again, "God is sovereign"! We know that but they do not understand the meaning. It is a title, not a mantra that depicts God as a mind numbing control freak who does not allow man to have free will but picks at random who He created for Heaven and who He created for Hell. The struggle for us is that, when this theology is not discussed, they are truly loving and kind. It's truly sad that we are beginning to think that we may not be 'saved' (or elected?). The hard core ones are not able to even consider that there are other valid interpretation of scripture that, in my mind, are closer to describing more biblically, God's immeasurable LOVE for sinners who hear the Gospel and respond with a repentant heart. What deceiving heresy this Calvinism is! May the Lord give them the experience to feel His love deep down in their soul. Doctrines without experiencing the presence of our Living God is utterly useless - 1Corinthians 13: ' if I have all the knowledge in the world but have not love, I am nothing more than a banging drum'.

[@yvonnedoulos8873]

@@eugenejoseph7076 - So sorry about you experience! How unfortunate that pastor’s are willing to deceive, apparently. They do harm to the cause of Christ for those who may be seeking or weak in the faith. Hope you can find a church home that is more biblical!

[@MarkNOTW]

I agree. It is a cult. I'm surprised they haven't published their own Bible yet.

[@sjhicksfamily5493]

@@sunshinegirl1967 I stand with you in praying for you about this issue. I pray that God will bring you the peace He said that passes all understanding and you will know without a shadow of a doubt you are a child of the most high God in the name of Jesus! God bless you in Jesus name.

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

0:30 I think Kevin Thompson refers to it as "out-sourcing our sense-making" Actually, Calvinists prefer it that way, (they must get very tired of answering the same inevitable questions over and over)😊😊 but it's not unique to Calvinism. It's pretty common among 'cult' types of organizations. The leaders want to be followed without question and they hold up their degrees or their perceived authority or position as a shield against criticism in the say way they misuse Romans 9... "who are you to question God" i.e. if you're questioning my interpretation of scripture you are questioning God, etc. It's the "appeal to authority" fallacy and it's specifically employed to squelch opposition. Because existing in cognitive dissonance makes ones brains hurt so much, many Calvinist church members are willing to resign themselves to not understanding the 'mystery', which is undeniable and unavoidable. Instead they simply accept that God is too big and their brain is too little, which is exactly what they're told by those whom they presume to be smarter, more educated, even more 'enlightened' by God. Others, are willing to convince themselves they "get it" and somehow elevate themselves in the group by claiming to be 'enlightened'. The seduction of claiming to understand something which others do not is too much to resist for many people. And, in Calvinism, (as in Gnosticism), it's pretty cool because...after all, "God Did It" to you and you didn't have anything to do with it at all... how cool is that😲😲

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

@@manassehjones7438 Hmmm That the right guy, but I've listened to hours of his videos over the past few years and I've never heard him say that. We all know Satan is the father of lies and the truth is not in him... there is no doubt Kevin does too. Can you provide a link? I'd be curious to know the context.

[@lindajohnson4204]

They're not really asking "who are you, O man, to question God?" They are saying "who are you, O man, to question us?"

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

@@lindajohnson4204 Yep... that's their story and their stuck with it.😊😊

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

@@manassehjones7438 Still waiting for the Kevin Thompson link....🤔🤔 I believe what the Bible says about it. Jesus speaking the the Pharisees ; John 8:44 "44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."kjv.

[@DickBakerSql]

​@@manassehjones7438 God is omniscient. "The Fall" (aka original sin) is God's deliberate will [Decretive/Preceptive/Permissive] to grace mankind with Free Will. We "blame" Adam for accepting Satan's mistruth unchallenged, but prior to that bad decision Adam was not enlightened by knowledge of Good/Evil. Thus [in a single blow] God gives man choice and the ability to reason (i.e. make responsible/culpable choices). Brilliant!

[@markgupton1313]

Was Calvin crucified for you ? Were you baptized in the name of Calvin ?

[@Salvation-Damnation]

Calvin would have crucified us if he had the chance.

[@Drspeiser]

@@Salvation-Damnation Tragic reality

[@Jason-L-Ledford]

Amen I agree! Calvinist follow John Calvin the same way Mormons follow Joseph Smith or Jehovah witnesses follow Charles Taze Russell.

[@elyssarose8192]

true

[@thomasmaggio1718]

@@Salvation-Damnation No he wouldn't. Calvin burned his enemies. Jesus died for His.

[@princeofpeaceproductions3506]

Dave hunts book-WHAT LOVE IS THIS opened my eyes to the dangers of Calvinism

[@MrJimMac]

Yeah that was a good book.

[@MrJimMac]

@@urfriend919 no it doesn't. But it does help debunk Calvinism.

[@MrJimMac]

@@manassehjones7438 the book doesn't interpret scripture. It just points out the 100s of verses that say the opposite of Calvinism

[@MrJimMac]

@@manassehjones7438 when I say he doesn't interpret scripture I mean he doesn't create some kind of grand narrative like a Calvinist book does. It's been a while but from memory he just goes through TULIP and shows verses that say the opposite of that. I don't even know if I still agree with everything he says (I probably don't, it's been probably 10 years since I read it). Maybe me saying he doesn't interpret scripture was a poor choice of words. I'll conceed there probably is some interpretation going on. But nothing like Grutem's Systematic Theology or anything like that. I found the book good at that time in my life. Now I try and put in the hard yards and study from the text as well as other sources that help bring context, like the apocrypha, Enoch 1, ancient near East literature, and the ante nicean Church fathers.

[@rebekaheager9518]

The talk he gave on the subject was what opened my eyes. I had always struggled with predestination, understanding the Calvinist viewpoint but not wanting to believe that my unsaved coworkers had no choice whether they would be saved or not. I knew Dave Hunt through his work “A Woman Rides the Beast”, and my husband turned on “What Love is This”. I cannot tell you the relief I felt when I heard that for the first time. I had been converted to Calvinism in high school, by my well-meaning parents who had begun to listen to R. C. Sproul and John MacArthur and their ilk. I had grieved and mourned when I came into it. And then I became proud. My grandparents, who didn’t believe it, became “unenlightened.” And seven or eight years later, that one video changed it for me. Thank God for Dave Hunt.

[@mikekern3436]

I really appreciated this simple and clear-headed approach to refuting Calvinism. Thanks for the good word!

[@nicholascarter6543]

@@reynaldodavid2913Jo That’s a good question.. The only logical answer that I can find is this : The man chose to reject based on the information he had;whether it was false information as a result of rejecting the true information arrogantly and pridefully (for whatever reason) which may have turned into deeper darkness (which usually does) ;or,whether it was true information that was rejected ignorantly because of whatever “logical reason” or false information they have been given person x rejected it which may lead to more opportunities to accept the Truth but makes it harder to hear..either way,we are all held accountable to God for what we know of Him regardless of what terrible situation we find ourselves in. Simple answer is this : person x chose to reject for his own personal reasons and God knew that person would.

[@kingiak4931]

Thank you Leighton, with love from Zambia.

[@geraldpolmateer3255]

One of the things that helps me is to think about the fact that scripture was taught to about 98-99 percent of the people could not read and write. So many false and complex theologies have been developed among people who can read and write. I find it interesting that some of them cannot answer the questions the early church did. The smartest man I have ever met answered questions with simple answers that I could easily understand. There were also times when he answered some of my questions with "I don't know".

[@sunshinegirl1967]

David Lee Brown said exactly what I had been thinking that Calvinism spawned itself out of an over correction by Luther and Calvin in their overreaction to the errors of the Catholic Church. They were right to question the RCC theology and practice but they went too far. Calvinism was the result of trying to be anti-Catholic. Luther and Calvin should've just corrected their errors and leave it there. But they overcorrected and got into more heresy than before.

[@a.k.7840]

One thing is for sure, the things that calvinism teaches about God are far more offensive to God's character than the things that RCC teaches.

[@a.k.7840]

@@urfriend919 No, Eg. that God neglects most of mankind to their eternal destruction and commanded to occur every sin that ever occurred, essentially making god out to be worse than satan.

[@a.k.7840]

@@urfriend919 Eg. God offering salvation to everyone and allowing them to reject it.

[@gregmiell3037]

All true...and I might add, their big mistake was reading and believing Augustine instead of the Scripture.

[@fruitloopz311]

Don’t ascribe Calvin’s lunacy to Luther

[@melissaschubert1653]

Excellent “short” - so true! Thank you!!

[@rich1147]

This is so good. Thankful for your ministry brother.

[@naturallycurly2384]

Thank you for helping me defend what I believe so that I can give answers when it comes up.

[@UniteAgainstEvil]

When I think of Calvinists, these verses always pop up in my head: Keep in mind that the patience of our Lord means salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul has also written to you according to the wisdom given to him. As in all his letters, he writes about these things, in which some things are hard to understand, which the unlearned and unstable distort, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:15‭-‬16

[@brentporter4754]

I think this is probably true about the protestant movement in general, especially in America. I say this as an American Southern Baptist. It is quite concerning that so many uneducated people think they understand the Scriptures just because of what they read in English in their preferred translation. I didn't even like saying that to be honest, but I kind of get where the Catholics are coming from on this one. I do like Martin Luther's every man a priest idea, but I am starting to question it.

[@UniteAgainstEvil]

@@brentporter4754 only God giveth the understanding... most are just wise in their own eyes... hopefully not to their own destruction, God Have mercy 🙏❤🙏

[@UniteAgainstEvil]

@@bobhawkins2997 yes he sure did... being an elect, chosen vessel yourself, just like Paul (that's literally what you all think of yourselves) I shouldn't have to explain to you apostles how God predestined those who believe to be conformed to the image of His Son, and yes, He did this before the foundation of the world was laid. Quit listening to lies man, please... Calvinists think they are special, the Bible says God is no respector of persons. Calvinists don't think Jesus died for everyone, the Bible says Jesus tasted death for EVERY man, of course, only those who BELIEVE in Him get saved. Calvin was a man ( also a MURDERER), you believe in a man made doctrine, one that preaches a different Jesus.. and we know what happens to those who preach another Jesus: ETERNAL DAMNATION (Galatians 1...) slippery slope friend, very very slippery

[@UniteAgainstEvil]

@@bobhawkins2997 and I have no problem reconciling free will and God's sovereignty.. I do have a problem when people preach a different Jesus... very concerning, very concerning indeed.. oh well, I'll go with the Bible, NOT the "former ROMAN CATHOLIC turned MURDERER" John Calvin.. all he did was rehash a former Gnostic turned Christian from the 4th century.. you guys idolize men to much.. pray to Father for understanding please, ONLY God giveth the understanding, not Calvin lol.

[@UniteAgainstEvil]

@@bobhawkins2997 where you go? to make sure you're not preaching another Jesus to your own destruction? good move 😉

[@KimDroptiny]

Loved your personal anecdotes about not watching sports/news any more - kind of hilarious about not knowing about the war! But good on you!! You are doing great work for the kingdom. Keep it up. I feel a terrible sense of pride when even as a 19 year old (when I first learned of Calvinism) I had your same arguments! Thank you Lord! I'm not supporting you financially but your name is in my prayer book. I pray that your influence and teaching will go world wide and that our Father would provide all your financial needs.

[@rahulshinde6210]

Do NOT blame any theology (Calvinism in this case) to be false, cos a man's finite man cannot completely & perfectly understand & interpret an infinite God. No theology is perfect & it does NOT mean that particular theology is false or worthless, it is at the most incomplete.

[@hectorsaucedo5606]

Appreciate your ministry

[@ShowCat1]

Crystal clear explanation.

[@billpletikapich5640]

Thank you. As a Catholic participating in bible studies with Calvinist, I often feel like its a professional wrestling event where any contrived interpretation is acceptable as long as one ignores the bible and follows Calvin's script.

[@eolaoye]

At any rate, it is faith in Jesus as one's savior that saves... whether or not you believe in personal election and particular atonement, as long as you have faith in Jesus you are saved. May God help us to be truly humble.

[@hbrws813]

Excellent teaching!! I was challenged to do a deep dive into Calvinism and am grateful to have found this channel and your teachings. Thank you for this insight.

[@kevinwells7080]

as someone who’s mainly only ever studied and studied under non-Calvinist scholars, I’m really not very impressed with the leading Calvinist scholars. What is not objectional about their teaching can be gotten nearly anywhere else from reputable scholars like Fee, Witherington, Keener, etc. It just seems that most reformed types only or mostly study Calvinist scholars and writers, So how would they know how brilliant theses men are in comparison?

[@DamonNomad82]

So, if a Christian were to trip over a TULIP and fall headlong into Calvinism, would that be an "R.C. Sprawl"?

[@subversivereality3908]

If one smoked TULIP would that make them a Piper? Perhaps if you excessively ruminated on TULIP would you become a Mohler? In a life full of hard knocks, some men live a hard Knox life.

[@dw6528]

In Calvinism - per the doctrine of decrees - If that were to come to pass - then every impulse that came to pass in that Christian's brain was decreed to infallibly come to pass - and thus that Christian had no control over his brain.

[@subversivereality3908]

If you but TULIP in your laundry detergent would one be a Washer?

[@dw6528]

@@subversivereality3908 AHH that is funny!! Yes With their 2-lips they honor me - but their hearts........

[@Belg6179]

Dr. Flowers....THANK YOU! I have been watching so many videos and getting lost in the nature of the explanations of both sides. The philosophies are too deep for me to follow and I just wind up frustrated more than when I started. This was spot on simple and I truly appreciate it. I have never considered myself a Calvinist but when a friend of mine, whom I respect and is very intelligent, told me why he is a Calvinist, it made me doubt myself. BUT...As you said, "deep on my heart, I know Calvinism isn't right." It can't be! Like you said, it does not reflect God's nature. If God tells us to love at the most simple and the most complex of levels, how could God do such a non loving thing as to condemn someone he created to be damaged beyond repair from the start? That is not love in any way, shape, or form. Twisting the definition of love to make it fit your narrative is as bad or worse than saying transgenderism is okay.

[@rahulshinde6210]

Do NOT blame any theology (Calvinism in this case) to be false, cos a man's finite man cannot completely & perfectly understand & interpret an infinite God. No theology is perfect & it does NOT mean that particular theology is false or worthless, it is at the most incomplete.

[@mrscottspodcast]

Amen brother glad you got out of that mess. John Calvin and those who adhere to his teaching are all falling off a cliff of deception.

[@janesylvers605]

a perfect quick summation. Thank you! Thats my view also, is that despite the verses Calvinism leans on we cant submit to that idea because it contradicts the character of God in scripture.

[@thekriskokid]

I thought Leighton was going to give an altar call. "Every one of you Calvinists listening to my voice right now, you it's true. Raise your hand and come down to the front and repent of your Calvinism!" 😅😅🤣

[@clwhite1127]

🤣

[@lindajohnson4204]

That would require a "decision".

[@lindajohnson4204]

@@manassehjones7438 The people who obeyed Jesus when He preached, "repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"? After John died, Jesus started preaching John's message for awhile. I don't think Jesus's message ever lacked repentance. For example, He told both the woman caught in the act of adultery, and another man, who He had healed -- I think it was the man who had been lying, a cripple, at the pool of Bethesda -- "sin no more, lest a worse thing happen to you." I don't believe he was saying that they must be sinlessly perfect, to be saved, because we are not sinless. But that they must have a heart of repentance, that change of attitude about sin, before God, and that's going to take you in the direction away from sinning. To say that we must repent isn't saying that we must stop sinning before we can be saved. The fact that we aren't saved by works, is real, and important. But again, repentance is a change of mind toward God, not the actual stopping of the sinning, which can actually be much harder than people realize (when you actually try to do it, instead of just talking about it!). Since we believe with the heart to be saved, it is also a change of heart, not of intellect. Basically, repentance is not an additional requirement for salvation, but it's the way, the attitude, through which we come to the right kind of faith. For instance, if someone said "I don't care whether God wants me to quit sinning or not, I am just going to keep on sinning my favorite sins, and be as wicked and sinful as I feel like being, until I die", but they also said, 'I'm going to take advantage of God's "get out of jail free" card, by "faith", even though I will never repent", they could pretend, but they really wouldn't be coming to Jesus Christ, with that contemptuously mocking attitude about sin. It is for our sins that Jesus died, not to keep us unrepentant in sin, but to turn us from sin, forgive us and cleanse us.

[@Drspeiser]

@@manassehjones7438 Oh dang! That's a pretty good "gotcha", because you're right, we CAN'T name ANY of the, "about three thousand souls" who "gladly received [Peter's] word" to "Repent and be baptized" and "Be saved from this perverse generation." In Acts 2:37-41... 😆

[@darthbigred22]

@@Drspeiser So you think God doesn't know the future? He certainly likes saying He is all knowing a lot and that heavily implies the future.

[@sunshinegirl1967]

Y'all go and listen to David Lee Brown's video about his journey to and away from Calvinism. It here on youtube. It's a breath of fresh air like Leighton is. It's another bit of sanity in an insane world.

[@justmefl7045]

I've been at best a reluctant Calvinist for years. The very issues you describe - e.g. "I have decreed your blindness - however, I'm going to punish you for eternity for being blind" - and many other such irreconcilable points - are the things that continue to dog me when my Calvinist friends take the "God sovereignly decrees ALL THINGS - yet, God is not responsible for ...."

[@PotterSpurn1]

It's a doctrine for psychopaths. I don't see God being described like this in scripture.

[@MarkNOTW]

Be reluctant no more. Leave!

[@found_working]

So happy to find your channel.

[@orbyfan]

A few years ago I read the speculative novel "The Disappearance" (1951) by Philip Wylie, whose work I'd never read. There's a minor character of a minister; neither he nor God are mentioned much in the book, but where they are, it's quite negative, and I deduced that Mr. Wylie probably grew up under a harsh Calvinism that emphasized God's sovereignty without mentioning his love. When I looked at his Wikipedia entry, it said that he was the son of a Presbyterian minister--thus the Calvinism in his background. Philip Wylie was an example of someone who was fed this poisonous teaching when he was young and apparently never grew out of it, and appeared to be angry at God as an adult.

[@R01202]

I grew out of Calvinism and Christianity entirely as an adult. I'm not angry at God. I'm angry at sadistic men who believe their god has the same perverse fantasies they do.

[@ericrickert3045]

You are pointing out a process that I have taught my children as they were going up. At some point when you get older, you need to know what you believe, and why you believe it. Very young children pretty much believe what parents tell them, but as they get older, they should do what you did. Make an honest investigation. Well explained!!

[@brittprincepublications]

Thank you for what you are doing. Keep telling the truth.

[@araeshkigal]

Coherence of justice aside, what always got me about Calvinism is that it utterly *abrogates* the Sacrifice of Christ. If I was created with an *inescapable* destiny of Heaven, then Jesus couldn't possibly save me. What's He supposed to be saving me from? I'm in *zero* danger. My sin can't damn me, because I'm *destined* not to be damned. So it isn't CHRIST who overcomes Sin and Death on the Cross on my behalf...it's God the Father declaring at the beginning of time "I will keep humans 1-50 as my personal favorites and send 51-100 to Hell." Likewise, if I am destined to Sin and destined for Damnation, the Christ *cannot* Save me. His blood has no power. And more importantly, MY sins clearly are NOT upon His shoulders....He did not and could not have died for me. But we *know* from Scripture that He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the *world*! No doctrine which calls the validity of Christ's sacrifice into such question could possibly be correct.

[@annakimborahpa]

Are there any biographies of John Calvin that go into extensive detail about his early life? For someone to write so cold bloodedly as he did in his Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book III, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5, "By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. ALL ARE NOT CREATED ON EQUAL TERMS, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death" indicates to me that there is some aspect of his psychology rooted in childhood trauma which produced the fatalism he expressed in his writing. Perhaps it was the death of his mother at a young age, combined with his father's remarriage and his new step-mother preoccupied giving birth and raising new children in the Calvin family, that stunted him emotionally. Did he grow up to be a theological 'savant' who perfected the incredible gifts of his legal mind while suppressing in himself such basic human virtues as compassion when he icily assigned the damnation of supposedly un-elected human beings to a God he thought purposely willed it to be so?

[@tyronebunyon7254]

Very insightful 👌

[@sunshinegirl1967]

Thanks for posting this! Can't be more clear!

[@castlegrande]

Good book is What Love is This by Dave Hunt.

[@annakimborahpa]

@@castlegrande Thanks, KC. The title sounds like a flip-side play on the American shape-note hymn What Wondrous Love Is This. Didn't need to hunt far, as it appears readily available to order online and can receive Dave's book in days.

[@UniteAgainstEvil]

@@annakimborahpa why I'm not a calvinist by Robert Breaker... Mike Winger has an episode debunking it that is FANTASTIC! For more of a biography on Calvin, see Robert breakers episode

[@Johnrider1234]

Calvinist are always the same. They are elect. But not sure if you are.

[@princeofpeaceproductions3506]

@@Justas399 no he just stated that calvinists are sure they are elect-but they are not so sure about anyone else

[@dw6528]

That's almost the case. They ASSUME they are elect -but their doctrine stipulates that are granted NO CERTAINTY of their election. That is a divine secret. John Calvin -quote We are *NOT* bidden to distinguish between reprobate and elect - that is for god alone, not for us, to do . . (Institutes IV. 1. 3.) Also per the doctrine - Calvin's god gives a percentage of Calvinists a FALSE SENSE of election. John Calvin -quote But the Lord.......instills into their minds such a sense of his goodness as can be felt without the Spirit of adoption.(Institutes pg 342) -quote He Illumines them FOR A TIME to partake of it....and then strikes them with greater blindness. So in Calvinism we have a doctrine of divine deception of the believer.

[@ralphfeay8857]

Just found this video you make it very clear thank you much appreciated

[@TAdler-ex8px]

Since this is my fourth comment you can tell I’m passionate about this. I just want to add that our Lord tells us in His own words that He is gentle and lowly, not technically exacting. He doesn’t have 1800 pages of perfect knowledge we have to submit to. He says His yoke is easy and His burden is light and He bids us to come and trust Him alone to give us rest. It’s simple, even a child can come. I have learned so much more from simple humble George Muller than John Calvin. I believe meditating on 1 John 4 has been effective in prying me from what you related to, trusting those with more knowledge than myself. Because the simplicity of; do I confess that Christ came in simple humble flesh, being the gauge for purity of my faith and the results of that being, if I believe, I will become like He is. Loving!

[@20july1944]

It's always good to see a sinner come unto repentance

[@l-cornelius-dol]

I agree, completely. At the end of the day, the incoherence of determinism with respect to clear Christian doctrine makes it untenable, and an obvious misinterpretation.

[@dw6528]

Well said! Determinism is a self-refuting belief system.

[@heels-villeshoerepairs8613]

Thanks Leighton. So clear.

[@smalltowntourist]

Thank you for this video.

[@youturntotruth3011]

Leighton, you were on fire and had me laughing. Thank you so much. When you explain it this way, it seems so ridiculously obvious that calvinism isn't true, but i'm cursed with the calvinistic lense of interpreting scripture that I can't avoid for the life of me so it's a battle.

[@jdog5642]

@You turn to Truth - thank you for explaining that you're finding it hard to take your Calvinist lenses off. I applaud you for having an open mind and teachable spirit because without it you wouldn't be watching this video. I see the use of Calvinist lenses in my bible study all the time. It leaves me feeling like the stupid ones who just couldn't see the emperor's clothes so I've been thinking of moving to a new church because of it. Your comment is encouraging me to have more patience. Listening to Leighton, I am encouraged to stay and try to help them take those lenses off.

[@youturntotruth3011]

@@jdog5642 It is definitely difficult. When I was first saved, I knew nothing about calvinism. I never interpreted my salvation experience (quite radical btw) the way calvinism depicts it. So when I was introduced to it, it really upset me and turned my thoughts on who God was upside down. And to this day I can't read scripture without interpreting it calvinisticly. It's like a disease. Leighton really helps me!

[@holygeneration7]

@@jdog5642 Please, Ive never heard anyone that I know(Im 68) in my life say "Im a calvanist" therefore I still dont know what i suppose to think what one is when i hear the word calvinist....please tell !!

[@jdog5642]

@@holygeneration7 Calvinists believe in the following key doctrines, summarized by the acronym TULIP : T - Total Depravity: Calvinists believe that due to the fall, all humans are born sinful and are incapable of choosing God or doing good on their own. U - Unconditional Election: They believe that God pre-elected certain individuals for salvation, not based on any merit or foreseen actions, but solely according to His sovereign will. L - Limited Atonement: They believe that Jesus died for the elect only. I - Irresistible Grace: They believe that God's grace is irresistible to the elect, meaning that those chosen by God cannot ultimately reject His saving grace. P - Perseverance of the Saints: Calvinists hold that those who are truly saved by God will persevere in their faith and cannot lose their salvation. There are variations within Calvinism, not all Calvinists adhere to every aspect of these doctrines.

[@nicholaspaul88]

Thank God I'm freed from Calvinism.

[@JoshMcSwain]

It's a great feeling!

[@nicholaspaul88]

@@JoshMcSwain indeed. Now I can preach the gospel without a heavy baggage of calvinism. Provision of salvation is for all people.

[@RanierMedic]

Calvinist bible training: God has determined everything, but isn't accountable for anything. If anybody questions you about it, appeal to mystery.

[@gwine2nine52]

@@urfriend919 it's very nice to have been freed than decreed.

[@gwine2nine52]

@@urfriend919 I have a question may you can help me with about determinism..In acts 17 26-27 scripture says God predetermined all men's times before appointed and the bounds of thier habitations... my question is why did God do that??

[@fitforfaith]

Excellent teaching, thank you brother.

[@TheVinsere]

There is a man I highly respect here on KZbin but I won't name him. He seems to rightly divide truth and a wonderful teacher. I just found out he is a calvinist. How can someone who seems to have such discernment not get this right? So sad to me. Ty for your teachings.

[@Tylerstrodtman]

This is all very interesting to me, thank you for sharing your perspective on this, it's really helped me dig into my own presuppositions about salvation. These are considerations that I've had to wrestle with just as anyone has who really takes this topic seriously. As with any change in perspective, the bare facts are rarely enough to get over the hump so to speak. I think an interesting series of videos might be some of the struggles you went through as you left calvinist thinking. A great deal of good can be accomplished by validating the experience of someone you disagree with, especially if you use to agree with them. What are some of the social barriers you experienced? Did you lose friends? Experience awkwardness in your church, or even have to change churches? How about some scriptures that were particularly difficult to think about differently? Were there any that were particularly "stubborn" to remove from a calvinist framework for you? I think I would get a lot out of that. A good steel man goes a long way.

[@holygeneration7]

@Tylerstrodtman Please, Ive never heard anyone that I know(Im 68) in my life say "Im a calvanist" therefore I still dont know what i suppose to think what one is when i hear the word calvinist....please tell !!

[@Tylerstrodtman]

@@holygeneration7 I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking me to give you a definition of the word "Calvinist?"

[@holygeneration7]

@@Tylerstrodtman yes please.

[@Tylerstrodtman]

@@holygeneration7 The basic position of Calvinism is that God is sovereign over salvation, the strict five point Calvinist would say that people have absolutely nothing to do with our salvation at all, the "moist robot" accusation might come close to being accurate for that strain of thinking. Softer Calvinists would say that at minimum God enables us to respond to His grace by regenerating the heart prior to faith.

[@biblicaltheologyexegesisan9024]

thank God I never fell for any of the 5 points of calvinism

[@sunshinegirl1967]

I never fell for it either, yet somehow I still got infected by it, and found myself having to remind myself of the scriptures that refute it. It is a battle. That's why I keep coming here. There's just so much Calvin crap floating around. It's everywhere. And normally intelligent people don't question it. It boggles my mind how they can be so deceived.

[@biblicaltheologyexegesisan9024]

@@sunshinegirl1967 yes, we all feel the same way. Thank God for Leighton, since he was knee deep in this stuff, it is so awesome what he is doing and he is really making a difference.

[@olivercromwell9294]

not even preservation of the saints? If God does the saving, doesn't He do the keeping as well? Or is God an Indian giver?

[@biblicaltheologyexegesisan9024]

@@olivercromwell9294 I am what you would call an Armin-o-provisionist. I have read the book of Hebrews, James, Rom 11, and Revelation my whole life. Can you read the epistle to the Hebrews and honesty think the author preached osas? God never takes anything away from a believer, but a stupid believer can throw it away if he works at it.

[@clwhite1127]

Tulip’s p is “perseverance of the saints”. Most traditionalists/provisionists believe in preservation of the saints.

[@TAdler-ex8px]

About 5 years ago I started reading my New Testament 4 times a year and my Old Testament once a year and gradually I started to feel like I was reviving and alive in prayer and expecting from God, but too many of my local church family members seem determined to be disinterested in God except being pacified with rigid knowledge passed on by men not mentioned in the scriptures. The Lord says to me welcome to the mission field. I’m asking, what is this Lord? Some how that sneaky devil has removed Christ from our worship. It’s the only explanation. We should be alive and full of love for each other, but we’re mostly rigid and disinterested in being like Jesus. We need help Lord! Lord save us from self satisfying knowledge that extinguishes our fire for God!

[@donovankelly7723]

Thank you Dr. Flowers!

[@Drspeiser]

Intelligent ≠ Wise

[@bedtimesd.1247]

Really great stuff. I would like to ask a Calvinist why would God force us to love him since love most be freely given to actually be love. Why did the Apostle Paul say I have finished my course I have kept the Faith? There are many other questions I hope to ask a Calvinist someday in person. I really enjoyed your comments.

[@davidhorvat700]

All sinnned in Adam. We all fell with Adam . The power of God and his sovereignty is displayed by showing how he can change the heart of an enemy into loving him.

[@andymoore5597]

Thank You, Brother!!!!!!!

[@carlostriana7557]

Love this. It was in Exodus as well: it says ‘Pharaoh hardened his heart’ several times, then it says ‘God hardened Pharaoh’s heart.’

[@rahulshinde6210]

Do NOT blame any theology (Calvinism in this case) to be false, cos a man's finite man cannot completely & perfectly understand & interpret an infinite God. No theology is perfect & it does NOT mean that particular theology is false or worthless, it is at the most incomplete.

[@Rexpiper]

Thank you for so clearly Laying out the case against Calvinism. I’ve always struggled with the claims of Calvinism but would find myself worshipping alongside others who consider themselves Calvinists. These would be people for whom I had a great deal of respect but I would at times wonder if they’re proclaiming a different gospel. Paul warned against such things: I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel- not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-9 - ESV Have we accepted the gospel of grace presented by Paul or some other gospel of Calvinism? Is it more oil and water than we’re even willing to admit? Is it more like a Mormon and a Christian standing side by side as if they’re both preaching the same message? I struggle with this question especially if according to the passage in Galatians, “let him be accursed” is a credible warning. This is difficult for me to reconcile!!! I’d love to hear your thoughts on this or a link to something you may have already said or written which addresses this conundrum. I seriously sense this is a bigger issue than we’re ready to accept.

[@truthseeker5698]

Yes, 2 Corinthians 11 :12-15 calvinism/reformed theology discussed in the Bible.

[@imanedwardsikes]

It is another gospel. I struggled with at first as well until I realized the damage it creates. It hinders critical thinking sinners from coming to Christ because they can see the apparent contradictions if Calvinism was the actual gospel. It makes God an unjust monster.

[@BriannaNorum]

I completely agree/understand and find myself wondering/questioning the same thing…

[@treybarnes5549]

haha Calvinist can accuse God of Spiritual bigotry and call him good. I go to a SBC and talked about the foolishness of Calvinism and the whole room went silent. I realize I was among a whole bunch of closet calvinist and they have been pretending and it was something they just didn’t talk about. But I realized then that their no evangelicalism nor outreach nor witnessing. I eventually got bore with them because there is only so much you can talk about balls doing or money doing

[@sunshinegirl1967]

Good for you! These kinds of conversations must begin to lead people out of the foolishness and demonization of Calvinism.

[@truthseeker5698]

@@sunshinegirl1967 the frozen chosen..........the relational competency of petrified wood frozen in molasses.

[@timmccreery6597]

I was raised in the "Wesleyan- Arminian" tradition- Church of the Nazarene- I graduated from Point Loma College (now Point Loma Nazarene University) but I reacted against the legalism I was taught as a good little Nazarene, from childhood. I actually got saved later and started attending Calvary Chapel San Diego- (now Horizon Christian Fellowship) and discovered grace. Some very close friends at a different Calvary Chapel got caught up in Calvinism, and i looked at it, and it did not connect with the Gospel of Grace through Faith I had learned. It also denied free will, found throughout the Word of God. The more I read the more I was horrified, to the point that I questioned at one point, the scriptural Orthodoxy of Calvinism. Now, I don't question anyone's salvation, but i do wonder about their sanity. According to my Calvinist friends, "It's smart because John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul and John Piper say it's smart." Not because it makes sense because it doesn't. A plain reading of scripture, keeping everything in context, will not lead that direction. Someone has to teach you.

[@timmccreery6597]

@AVB2 Your understanding of Arminianism is not really accurate, at least as represented here. I would also say that what you represent as Calvinism is also limited because there is A LOT more to it than that.

[@timmccreery6597]

@AVB2 The "net" is not always reliable. Get some books and read up on the subject. As stated, I was taught Arminianism- I don't follow it- i.e. I am not an Arminianist. I also am not a Calvinist, in other words, I don't believe God is so monstrous that He would create people just to condemn them to hell to show His great mercy and grace on "the elect." I believe both camps- Arminianists and Calvinists, are in error in that they are trying to explain God with their own intellect. God is beyond our understanding. Example- I thought I had Genesis 18 down pat and had believed it said something in particular for over 40 years. I was looking at it the other day and thought, maybe it says something else. I've been wrong! But that changes a particular idea I had about God! My idea is wrong? Maybe! More to come!!

[@timmccreery6597]

@AVB2 Actually this is a great passage for Arminians, but that is a different discussion. BUT- you don't sound necessarily like a Calvinist, but like someone who believes once you are saved you are saved for eternity. I don't disagree with you- I would just add no one can take your salvation but you need to be careful to stay in obedience, because we are warned all over the Bible to be careful to stay in obedience.

[@timmccreery6597]

@AVB2 First- I know all about Calvinist doctrine and I am not interested in rehashing all of that again. Second, i know that we are saved by grace through faith and nothing else, but we still have a responsibility to watch over our salvation. I do not believe that in any way that this is a work we must complete because Jesus did the work. But we still have free will and ability to direct our thoughts and attention and to not do so can make us calloused to what God wants to do in our hearts. Besides all of the following passages from Hebrews tell us to be careful in our lives, our thoughts, our actions. Hebrews 2:1 For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. Hebrews 3:12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. Hebrews 4:11 Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience. I know that these verses portray the work of the Spirit in our lives. I also know we have free will to accept or reject God's work, and to not believe that makes God a monster, Which He Is Not!

[@ruben346]

Powerful video.

[@maryhirst9127]

Calvanism the great deception

[@Drspeiser]

Intelligent ≠ Spirit-led

[@szilardfineascovasa6144]

Half of the audience: "I wasn't an apostate until..." Seeing the vitriol directed at this gentleman from Calvinists, I imagined he must be a GREAT fellow, so I just had to check the channel. I then remembered the channel's name. All in all, everything went as expected.

[@krbaughn]

My Bible study teacher, a mature Christian man having a seminary degree and knows the Bible inside and out, is a staunch Calvinist. Recently, we studied Ephesians where toward the beginning of Chapter 1 predestination and "chosen" are written. Much emphasis was added in the lesson. There are many more examples of this kind. For me, there are too many "For God so loved the world" and "whosoever" entries, among others, for me to subscribe to this idea. I, too, have wondered "What am I missing?" when so many smart and Godly people subscribe to this teaching. While I appreciate this video I wish it included more scripture(s) to counter the Calvinist viewpoint as what I think or feel is not sufficient as an argument. I need and want scripture as a foundation for my beliefs. And, yes, I am searching the Holy Bible much more today as I, too, quit watching television, movies, news, sports, etc.and I am so grateful. To God be the Glory! The other thing that makes my eye twitch is that "Calvinism" seems to be a type of denomination based on the teachings of (giving credit to) a man: John Calvin. Shouldn't Christians refer to themselves and be known as Christians, followers of Jesus Christ? But maybe I'm missing something (misunderstand). Ask and it will be given. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and the door will be opened. May God through His Son, Christ Jesus, and by His Spirit enlighten.

[@larrytruelove8659]

Krbaughn Leighton Flowers has a lot of other videos and a book. Most people don’t understand the Calvinist arguments. I didn’t. Larry

[@lettheriver]

My opinion they have a pet sin they don't want to give up.

[@cironicholas526]

You stopped watching news and didn't know about the war... So you're much better informed than the people who have been watching the news

[@godexists2195]

Call out Mcarthur, Baucham, and those that follow them. They are twisting God's words.

[@jamesgardner9583]

So much "COMMEN SENCE...." BROTHER JAMES 🙏

[@canadiankewldude]

Thank you for all the work you do. I raised my kids with a very strong understand that any idea from Scripture be taken in context of that full page, not just one line. *_2Ti _**_3:16_**_ All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:_* *_- KJB_*

[@christineadamitus7858]

I don’t think MacArthur is into biblical hermeneutics

[@dw6528]

I would agree. I see MacArthur as a SEMANTIC MAGICIAN. The art of SEMANTIC MAGICIANRY is part of what it means to be a noted Calvinist

[@TheEngineer19]

I dont even think that he is saved.. He is a goodwork salvationist...

[@truthseeker5698]

lololololol, thank you, thank you for your post. Made my morning here near 3 am!

[@bigdogboos1]

the analogy of God passing by and only helping a few (or only providing/offering help for a few) is gold. A calvinist God is nothing like Jesus Christ or anything that he taught. He constantly taught us to be a certain way towards others, fellow believers, the lost, and the discarded ... and it was to be loving to them and pray for them and do good to them etc. The calvinist God does no good to a "reprobate", for he created them so he could burn them forever ... that is seriously sick

[@bigdogboos1]

@@manassehjones7438 i was born into a false religion my friend.

[@a.k.7840]

The calvinist God fails the good Samaritan test.

[@darthbigred22]

@@a.k.7840 So saving someone who doesn't deserve it and them doing nothing to help themselves in that process doesn't sound like TULIP to you? Either way even Arminian God is still damning people to Hell so if by what you mean to be the Good Samaritan I think you mean helping people out of the goodness of your heart/please God aspect then God doesn't apply to that scenario either. Because God is definitely damning some people no matter how bad their situation is if they don't believe and all of us believe that other than Universalists and they're argument is so bad why even go to church or read the Bible then?

[@a.k.7840]

@@darthbigred22 the reason the god of calvinism fails the good Samaritan test is because He passes by most of humanity in eternity past when He chooses to unconditionally elect some and unconditionally pass by most. Instead of offering to help those who could not help themselves, he neglects them to their eternal destruction. The difference between that and the Biblical God is that the Biblical God offers to help every single soul, the very picture of perfect love, and those who are not saved are the ones who rejected His offer so that no one can say, "God did not provide me an opportunity to be saved" on judgement day. Furthermore, man doesn't take part in his own salvation _on either view._ Salvation rests solely upon the faithfulness of God in keeping His promise to save those that believe. If God didn't keep His promises, no one could be saved. This is a very important aspect that gets overlooked or taken for granted all the time in these types of discussions and is the root of one of the most popular calvinist straw man arguments employed by the likes of James White ad nauseam.

[@dw6528]

@@manassehjones7438 The question "What made you better than them" falls into the fallacy of false dilemma

[@carlwimmer6270]

You perfectly describe me at times. I ebb and flow from wasting time on sports, and fearing I don't know enough, to doing a deep theological dive. I fully understand what you said.

[@sunshinegirl1967]

Wow, Leighton, what you said at the first. This is why you never join the herd mentality (regarding any doctrine, because the crowd and the "experts" can be wrong): Each one of us has the propensity to deny or ignore single words or portions of scripture that we wish were not true. Not just Calvinists! I recall stumbling over Matthew 5:29,30 and didn't want to read it. I thought surely Jesus didn't really mean what He said! That's a dangerous place to be because if you don't believe what He said you won't follow Him! If we're honest we must admit to not wanting to believe certain verses or words are true. But we must work through our difficulties with what offends us if we are going to follow Him. Too many people ignore the verses about divorce and remarriage for example. The 120 disciples didn't listen to Jesus explain what He meant by "eat My flesh/drink My blood" but they should have! They stopped following Him. And many of us fool ourselves in this way even if we still continue to go through the motions.

[@sunshinegirl1967]

This comment must've struck a nerve because only one person liked it.

[@castlegrande]

As I was listening this morning to the beginning of John MacArthur's Truth and Life Session 1 he made this comment regarding his great-grandson: "...we're praying that he will be a light because God has designed His people to be light shining in the perverse generation..." If we are arbitrarily appointed to an eternal destiny of either life or destruction, then how can they presume, first of all, that this descendant of his will even BE one of God's people, much less be a light shining in contrast to this perverse generation? One consideration is that Calvinists themselves really can't allow the reality of what they SAY they believe. As you say, it's not logical, not rational and violates the entire body of Scripture. I don't really know the motive. There is much of great value in what many of these intelligent preachers bring to the table, as you say. And, as I was once told, when you eat chicken you enjoy the meat, but spit out the bones.

[@sunshinegirl1967]

Correct Kerry. They "believe" Calvinism in theory but thank God they aren't consistent enough to acutally apply it very often.

[@truthseeker5698]

Thank you for sharing this. Using McArthurs own words to show how disjointed their systematic is.

[@brendaboykin3281]

That was a sermon, Brother. Emotionally moving and to the point. Blessings to you and yours, and to your service for the Body of Christ. 🔥🌹🌹🌹🌹🔥

[@jayheinz4624]

In John MacArthur's own words, he recently stated in a live sermon, that the doctrine of the elect and predestination does make no sense to him ,,,he doesn't understand it,, but..... You can find these videos on KZbin.

[@larrybedouin2921]

I was never a Calvinist, for no man can tell me that a God of love wants coerced love in return. Do we want our wives or our husbands to be decreed to love us? God forbid. The gospel is so simple, that one must have to have a child like mind to understand.

[@OleMadsen-evangeliet]

I was a calvinist until listening to Piper, in his sermon about Bunyan is pure violence to the bible

[@humbertothebeliever2443]

Where can I watch it?

[@omnitheus5442]

You got a link?

[@OleMadsen-evangeliet]

@@omnitheus5442 I only found one sermon on bunyan on pipers homepage, but I dont know if it is the one. He talked about rape as if God was in the doing it, but the sermon might have been deleted, dont recall if I wrote to him about it or not

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

I saw John Piper's bookd "Don't Waste Your Life" in a book store... and laughed out loud.!!! If he's right about his theology.... How could you?🤔🤔

[@OleMadsen-evangeliet]

@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT your answer dont make any sense to me, please explain, are you rebuking me for writing as I did?

[@Sirach144]

I lost a brother to Calvinism.

[@VictorFelipe82]

He can still come back to sound doctrine. God bless.

[@VictorFelipe82]

@@manassehjones7438 Brother, Manasseh. I, a non-Calvinist brother, pray not for God to change someone's heart but for God to never give up on that person, meaning for that person to continue to be exposed to the truth, whether he is a Calvinist or an unbeliever. Then that individual must freely choose to finally accept the truth or keep rejecting it. God really is a relational being; He does hear our prayers and may change His mind if He desires so. God bless.

[@VictorFelipe82]

@@manassehjones7438 A believer who was not a Calvinist at first doesn't lose his salvation for now embracing Calvinism. They are still brethren in Christ. God bless.

[@dw6528]

The Lord can deliver him from its mental ensnarement. The Lord delivered Saul of Tarsus

[@VictorFelipe82]

@@dw6528 Amen, brother.

[@osks]

I completely understand and I sincerely empathise with you Leighton - I too have been wrestling with many of the things of God for at least the past 45 years of my Christian life, many a time, also appealing to many respected theologians as I sought answers to some of the difficult questions in Scripture… And like you, I also found some of their answers, not only wanting but deeply troubling, particularly when they shrug things off, only to dismiss it to the realm of ‘mystery’… That the things of God are inscrutable to the human mind, is a fact - Rom 11:33,34, but that the things of God are also knowable, is also a fact - Luk 1:4… That God is both incomprehensible (otherwise He would not be God) and knowable (otherwise He would not be God) at the same time and in the same sense, seems self-contradictory to us and a violation of one of the first principles of thought - the Law of Non-Contradiction, but that it is a Biblical truism, is a fact nevertheless So, I often find myself, like David, crying out to the Lord, “Teach me oh Lord your Truth!” - Psm 86:11 What I did come to realise was that much of my confusion stemmed from the fact that I reasoned SYSTEMATICALLY, rather than COVENTALLY - relying on ‘proof texts’ rather than seeking to understand things in light of God’s full revelation - Psm 36:9 That brought me to see that there really is no tension whatsoever between the sovereignty of God and what His divine decrees bring to bear upon the sinner - for example… the idea that God is unjust if He is the one who ordains (determines) all things while simultaneously holding the sinner culpable for his sin, I realised, was predicated entirely on an unBiblical apprehension of sin, the nature and purpose of God’s law, the import of the Lordship of God, the nature of man’s will, the so-called ‘problem of evil’, God’s purpose with His creation… Once that picture came to grab a hold of me, all my discomfort seem to dissipate, and that peace that transcends all understanding (Phl 4:7), seemed to settle over me as I relaxed, knowing, with apodictic certainty, that the Word of God is true and sure - Jhn 17:17 Do I know it all? I wish! But one day, we shall see… 1Cor 13:12

[@beccalou597]

Thanks for this.

[@dasdrei5059]

You are absolutely right Leighton! Keep on pursuing God’s word with all your heart!

[@Salvation-Damnation]

Because I am not a reformed theology idolater.

[@lightings2021]

I can’t find the reference in Romans 9 you say at around 8:15. Can you help me to find it?

[@gk.4102]

It′s not in Rom. 9. It′s in Mat13:15 and Acts 28:27. Leighton is basically saying that the people God is dealing with in Rom9 are the same ones referred to in those passages.

[@StorybookGran]

What article is Dr. Flowers referring to from Steven at the end of this clip?