The 5 Points that Led Me Out of Calvinism | Leighton Flowers | Soteriology 101

[@semperfiarcher]

If anyone has a problem with you leaving Calvinism, just remind them that you were predestined to do so.

[@rhavenlynn5364]

Love this!

[@LawofChristMinistries]

Lol

[@williamng8927]

Ha ha

[@YESUSADALAHALLAH]

Wrong view of calvinism

[@Drew32296]

😂

[@ShowCat1]

My older brother and I became Christians in our thirties. We both started out as Armenians. My brother's church moved into Calvinism over a period of time. I was at one of their men's breakfast at his church one morning listening to them convince each other that they were right and all Armenians were going to hell. I knew most of the 30 men that were in attendance there. After about an hour of listening I asked a question: "how many of you men started out as Armenians?" Nearly all of them raised their hands. Then I asked "Were you not saved then? Did you only become saved when you believed in Calvinism?" I continued to raise questions like "at what point in your Calvinistic journey did you become saved, at one point, or two, or three or was it five?" "As Armenians did you not trust in Christ and Christ work on the cross, and in his Grace? Did you not believe then that you were saved by grace through faith, but now you believe that you are saved by grace through faith ONLY if you become a Calvinist? Were all of the people who gave their hearts to Jesus before John Calvin appeared on the earth not saved? Did Jesus say "For whosoever believes in Him (Jesus) and ONLY those who adhere to the Calvinistic doctrine shall be saved?" It became very quiet in that room. My final question was "Is it not WHO you believe in and not WHAT you believe in that brings salvation?" My final point is this: yes I believe that we need to learn what the scriptures really teach, and doctrine is very important, but we must be careful not to have a greater relationship with our doctrine than with the One the doctrine is about, because that becomes (in my mind) idolatry.

[@ricksylvester8065]

Show Cat yup!

[@02122_]

Impressive story, I like how you were able to break that down to your group

[@Painfulwhale360]

Well said!

[@GrahameGould]

*Arminians. Armenians come from Armenia.

[@wakeywakey8603]

It's all about Jesus Christ. His gift of salvation was in His Blood. In his Blood was his DN@. In His DN@ was His Father's SEED. The Seed was His Name, His Spirit & all the attributes of God. The Seed was the currency with which He purchased the souls of Adam's descendants & The Seed was the weapon with which He crushed the Serpent's kingdom (dominion). While bleeding to death on the cross, He SOWED His Father's SEED into the EARTH (we are made from Dust of the Earth). Downloading His DN@ Code = Data into our DN@. Ratifying God's Covenant with Abraham. To bless many nations thru Abraham's Seed. FAITH activates God's SEED (God Gene), establishing His Kingdom within us. But before the Seed can take Root (of Judah), the Soil must be broken & circumcised (heart). Therefore REPENT & Believe The Gospel. So that God's Kingdom may grow & bear Fruit within you (head to toe = DN@). It's a Blood Covenant. His Blood flows in our Blood. If you will be allow Him to be the Lord & you will be the Servant & not the other way around.

[@olinadajardep3458]

Calvinism has nothing to do with salvation. I am saved before I ever knew there was such a thing as calvinism. Calvinist theologians preaches Calvin and Calvinism/reformed theology. The Bible teaches Jesus Christ and the gospel.

[@brooke4608]

Exactly. This is secondary theology that just doesn’t really matter. Whether you believe God predestined you to come to him or that you chose out of free will, it doesn’t matter. What matters is the gospel of Jesus Christ and living by the bible. It only becomes a problem once one side starts saying the other side isn’t saved for not having their theology.

[@benvindatati]

Same, I live here in Europe and never heard calvinism until I started watch KZbin sermons from john piper ect

[@peterfox7663]

@@brooke4608 The implications of Calvinism make "living by the Bible" look very different under Calvinism than traditional Christianity

[@brooke4608]

@@peterfox7663 it won’t affect your salvation, but it could make things more difficult if your theology isn’t correct

[@peterfox7663]

@@brooke4608 Right -- you said the only problem is when it affects your opinion of salvation, and that we should live by the Bible. Living life by Calvinism *is* another problem.

[@cindyking4654]

I am so thankful that God led me to this video. I have been a believer for 40 years (didn’t accept Christ until my 30’s) and had never been subjected to Calvinistic teaching until a new pastor came to our church 3 years ago. I was shocked by his teaching of limited atonement and absence of free will. My husband is an elder and tried to have an intelligent conversation regarding our belief that God loves everyone and gives us the choice of whether or not to accept His free gift of salvation and he was dismissed as “sub-biblical.” When my husband asked pointed questions or referenced scripture that refute this doctrine, he was told it was “too complicated” for him to understand. Every sermon is bathed in this doctrine, as all scripture is seen by him through this Calvinistic lens. We are dismissed as Arminian (which I had never heard of and after much research realize I am definitely NOT.) I actually get angry during sermons because I feel he is diminishing and basically insulting God’s very nature of love, justice and righteousness in his all encompassing need to defend the idea of pre-destination. He constantly reiterates how comforting it should be for us to know we are chosen before eternity began, but that leaves the elephant in the room for me, that the other side of that doctrine is the belief that God, on purpose, created other people without hope from before the foundations of the world. That my God, whose very nature is love, could be so callous and cruel as to condemn people to eternal punishment whom He had created without the ability to accept salvation. In my pastor’s opinion there is no conflict, because if God, in His sovereignty decrees it, that makes it loving and just because He says so. This makes no sense. Your video was balm for my very lacerated soul. Thank you.

[@wakeywakey8603]

I agree 100%. You stated it much more diplomatically than I could. Jesus died for the sins of the world, not just a few pre-determined elect. Perhaps though, not Ham's descendants based on Noah's prophecies about his 3 sons? Japeth would dwell in Shem's tent meant all of Adam's descendants. Ham, however, was cut from a different geneology. If there was no free will, how did 1/3 of the Angel's choose to rebel against God, for which there is no repentance bc they cannot plead ignorance? If there is no free will, this entire good vs. evil drama seems entirely unnecessary. No free will means all the struggles of life are pointless if the outcome for each person is rigged (pre-determined). I don't God would have us struggle, stumble & strive in vain. Everything will be for the good of those who love Him & will walk with Him.

[@bwevemuzk]

@@wakeywakey8603 you're kidding/being facetious about jesus not dying for Ham's descendants right?!?!

[@davidgatzke8337]

You sound like me I do have to say one thing about calvinist is arguing with them made me dive deeper into his word and made more ashore why I believe what I believe

[@chrisbera7952]

Yes, I had an elder who constantly stressed "sovereignty." To him it means God pre ordains our actions and outcomes, that is, no free will. To me I understand it as I think the Bible reveals; God is sovereign, that is, we will all stand to account in front of him for our lives. He has the ultimate say, but gives us free will to choose morally his way or our way. Just like an earthly king is sovereign. He can be obeyed or disobeyed, but holds ultimate authority to deal with disobedience. I find calvin's doctrine to not only be a libel of God's character, but also to be irrational.

[@dc-wp8oc]

It seems impossible today to find a local church assembly which does not teach error in some form or fashion. Calvinism is a particularly heinous heresy, and I personally would not sit under the preaching of anyone who promotes it.

[@ryanmajors6582]

2:26 “Few individuals would be able to get around the intense emotion and pride-inducing adrenaline brought on by debating theology. Our innate desire to be esteemed by others and seen as smarter than we really are often overwhelms any potential for learning and profitable dialogue, which is unfortunate.” This may be the most underrated quote ever

[@Vitamortis.]

yessssss

[@godsstruggler8783]

I was about to quote this before having a quick look at the comments, lest I repeat somebody else's observation.

[@mikaelpetersen3331]

truth.

[@knxcholx]

Exactly. So quick to defend a theology, and not Jesus Christ. Makes me wonder where their trust lies.

[@pvmoore1154]

Truth!

[@chuckabean1]

11:25 is where it starts

[@sarabillings7032]

Hero

[@Friends46488]

Thanks!

[@askingwhy4992]

Gentlemen and a scholar

[@davidwhunt]

Helpful video. One concern to me is when a Christian reads a LOT of Calvinistic books, and/or studies at a Calvinistic seminary, and then reads the Bible through Calvinistic eyes instead of reading it with an open mind. Once a mind is "locked into" Calvinism, it can make it difficult to correctly interpret the Bible because the Bible is approached with preconceived ideas. It's so important that we (whether Calvinistic, Arminian or other) read the Bible for what it is. and not approach it having already come to certain conclusions based on the teachings of men.

[@richardostrander4452]

David W Hunt interesting food for thought 🧐

[@paulgcasso6279]

David W Hunt Amen!

[@mydaddysgirl2909]

@bud ekins fantastic analogy! I love it. The other one I like is that God is playing 10 dimensional chess (many scientists now think there are 10 dimensions) , Satan is playing checkers, and we haven't got a clue. And they accuse us if diminishing the sovereignty of God!

[@mydaddysgirl2909]

@@billysparks5860 Billy, I learned something interesting last evening. I learned that when the word for sin was translated into the Latin Vulgate the word was translated with a term used in a legal context for an offense that requires legal punishment. However the Greek translation means to fall short of and miss the mark, which is what the word meant in the original language. I think we need to learn to recognize our presuppositions. No one has ever shown me a verse that says babies and young children go to hell as they deserve because of Adam's sin. Yet I used to believe that, but no longer. The Bible says God does not punish children for the sins of their fathers. Jesus told the disciples to let the little children come to Him for of such are the kingdom of heaven. Do NOT misquote me here. I am not a universalist and am not saying everyone is going to heaven. I am saying that the only unforgiveable sin is the one against the Holy Spirit. If you reject the conviction and drawing of the Holy Spirit at the end of your life, that sin will not be forgiven. I had a difference of opinion with someone else who used the passage that we were all enemies when Christ died for us as a proof text to his assertion that we are born hating God. These are not the same things. My questions were never answered. Did Adam and Eve "hate" God when they sinned in the garden of Eden? Did Peter "hate" Jesus when he sinned against him by denying him? Did Paul hate God when he persecuted Christians? My point is that if we approach the Bible with specific suppositions we will interpret it in a way that is in line with those presuppositions. Many of us grew up with the supposition that we deserve hell because of Adam's sin. I believe a better understanding is that we are all broken because of Adam's sin and now inherit that sinful nature that WILL NO DOUBT SIN and therefore we will all miss the mark and be disqualified from being God's children but for the redemption of Jesus Christ by his crucifixion. (We deserve hell if we trample on the sacrifice Christ made on the cross by rejecting him. We are doomed to be cast out of heaven unless regenerated because of our brokeness and sinful natures. Jesus said often he came to seek and save the lost ) One viewpoint sees God as angry and punishing people for something they could not help. The other sees God as creating man to bear His image in the world, and giving man the ability to choose so they could be His image bearers. He knew we would mess it up, but He has not given up His plan. Instead He intervened to crush the head of the "serpent" in the Garden of Eden, and restore those who would choose Him to His original plan (of being His image bearers) or... we can make the same choice Adam and Eve made and disobey God and try to find our own way to be like God and end up sharing a dwelling place with Satan.) By the way, Romans 9 says Esau served Jacob. When did that happen? Please read Micah chapt in full for the context of the Jacob I loved, Esau I hated statement. When you read Micah 1 you see it clearly refers to their descendants rather than them as individuals. Read the entire Chapter of Romans 9. Further down it clearly shows Paul is speaking of groups rather than individuals. If God decrees everything that happens what in the world is the point of the book of Job? Please note that Job's friends meant well. Much of what they said was actually true, but they misapplied things to Job because they were not privy to what had gone on in heaven. Neither are we. God was angry at Job's friends for misreoresenting Him. We all see through a glass darkly now. Let's remember that and not be like Job's friends.

[@notprestontransformed-bett9840]

David W Hunt would you like me to believe what you just taught in your comment? If I believe you, I will inevitably take that to the text of scripture and not be "open minded"... See the problem? We all bring presupositions to the text, the question is whether we allow the text to challenge them. Arminians and Calvinists both have a set of presuppositions. Those of one group are God glorifying, the others are not. No one has a truly open mind and that's inevitable!

[@michaelcolthart4006]

If calvinists are correct, and the saved were chosen before creation, then quite literally, Jesus served no purpose…..according to Calvinistic logic, he came to save the saved?

[@Judahthanksgiving]

That only means that God knows who will receive His awesome gift of salvation. That's what it means to me and has for many years. God knows ❤

[@JohnSmith-zo6ir]

Well the Bible says exactly that. So it doest matter what "ism" you quote. If it aligns with scripture that makes it true. The predestination scriptures are true.

[@slownews_GetTheBigPicture]

@@JohnSmith-zo6ir They aren't. Read how Jesus lamented over Jerusalem: Mathew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! We see clearly the Will of God and men rejecting the will of God. The Tulip can't handle this passage of scripture. Saying everything was predestined is hogwash.

[@JohnSmith-zo6ir]

@@michaelcolthart4006 The only ones who don't like the scriptures on predestination are the ones who are not chosen. The only ones who don't like the scriptures on homosexuality are homosexuals. All these people try to justify and normalise their sins or false salvation.

[@JohnSmith-zo6ir]

@@michaelcolthart4006 No, that's you're logic. There are the elect and non-elect. It is only the elect (whosoever believes shall be saved). And then the non-elect are those who God desires to be saved. (Came to save "all" of mankind). But God foreknew that not all would accept him as their Lord and Saviour and they will according to Revelation be judged according to their deeds on the Day of Judgement. This is how God made provision for the risk of free will. He made that provision through the chosen ones being saved and the non-elect being judged on their deeds. That's what the Bible actually says. I'm not a Calvanist, but they definitely got predestination and salvation correct because that's what the Bible says. The pattern that I see in the comments section is that the only ones rejecting there scriptures are the ones who are not chosen ... yet.

[@pierreduranleau2514]

"I was chosen by God, for no apparent reason, boy, I'm I glad he chose me, and not them!" It's really hard for me not to see pride in such a view of salvation. Not all, but, in my experience, more often than not, they reject all that don't see salvation as they do. Being a charismatic, that does not believe in the female pastor-ship, I find myself in the rejection pile more often than not. But glory to God, that he offered this beggar the bread of life. This beggar can now tell everyone where to find bread. For God offers salvation to all.

[@lancesteinke3732]

I was saved in a charismatic church and am not sure if I completely agree with their theology, but have come to reject Calvinism and cessationism as well, so I’m in the weirdest place theologically right now lol. There is no mainstream position that I fit into. It’s a strange place to be, but I’m ok with it. I expect my position to change as I continue to learn.

[@Afterword.]

@@lancesteinke3732 Lance, have you looked into Molinism? It was the original polemic against Calvinism and neatly ties together free will and God's choice without getting crazy. I suggest checking out William Lane Craig's work on it. Tim Stratton has a lot of work on it as well. It's basically built around the concept that God knows what free creatures would do in any given circumstances and then uses that knowledge.

[@lancesteinke3732]

@@Afterword. I haven’t studied molinism yet. I’ve heard of it though. I was that was probably closest to the conclusion I was drawing about these things. I think I’ll check it out. Thank you.

[@Afterword.]

@@lancesteinke3732 It's surprisingly straightforward. I haven't found a solid Biblical argument against it yet. Even Calvinists attack it with philosophical objections. Definitely something to check out.

[@Afterword.]

@@lancesteinke3732 Also, I was also raised pretty Charismatic for the first dozen years. I hear you on the journey!

[@TAdler-ex8px]

When it occurred to me that Jesus had been afforded this same freedom to choose for himself, the tears of blood He shed in the garden became more personal. It exploded my heart with gratitude. His love for the Father and for us in choosing the cross was the most glorious thing the world has or ever will see. Only choice can produce love. ❤️🔥❤️

[@shredhed572]

It's interesting, that episode in the garden. For a brief time Jesus, God in human form had a Will opposed to the Father's. But He chose the Father's Will. Profound that

[@JamesBrown-fd1nv]

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Two out of three failed in a sinless state. Lucifer in Ezekiel 28:11-19, and Isaiah 14:13-14. Adam in the garden, and Jesus Christ in a garden.

[@Uialiainival808]

But Jesus asked God to take that cup away from him but instead chose Gods will not his own human will… how would you explain that?

[@TAdler-ex8px]

@@Uialiainival808 Thank you Lord Jesus! He chose the Father’s will and us! Praise God! I can only relate to my own faith experience which has been about trust. “looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.“ Hebrews‬ ‭12‬:‭2‬ Trust, walking by faith and not by sight. We trust and humble ourselves in culture that values power and control because we trust our Father in faith. To me it’s like a mega phone saying “LOOK!! There’s more than what you can see.” His sheep hear His voice. Whoever has eyes to see and ears to hear take up your own cross and follow Jesus. He trusted the Father and we trust Him. It’s costly in the world’s eyes but holds immeasurable treasure and joy for us in the Lord!

[@Josh_Stringer]

@@shredhed572 Opposing God's will would be sin. Jesus didn't oppose God. Jesus submitted to the Father.

[@paulzollinger6343]

Brother, I do agree with you here, BUT the way more important issue here, is your kindly manner. Watching other vids on the internet show way too many combative, proud talkers. That kind of behavior is doomed to failure.

[@bill_y4762]

Paul Zollinger Man paul you have a good point. This guys is more in the spirit than by far most of the debaters out there

[@sounddoctorin]

Well if people's heart is seeking truth, i don't think they'll reject it on count of the deliverer :-). I've spent most of my time one-on-one or small groups where I don't monologue but discuss. And we see why the narrow way is. Most want an excuse. Antagonize the delivery boy and excuse their rejection on basis of them calling it out? uhuh. God won't buy it. He sees the heart.

[@bill_y4762]

sounddoctorin I don’t believe most are seeking truth. They are seeking to be right and find evidence to back their positions. I’ve followed debates online for a few years now. Primarily I see people’s theology follows their belief system (not the other way around). People recreate God in their own image and then spend years even decades developing a carefully designed theology to back it up. If any part of this theology is wrong, God forbid! It will be extremely hard to break them out of it (because their theology is actually and expression of their identity). Because there such intense spiritual warfare surrounding these issues the more grace and diplomacy possible the better (and better chance at breaking someone put of error). And its darn hard to do especially if you think you are right about something. God have mercy

[@sounddoctorin]

@@bill_y4762 exactly. There's a mental disease I call ITS (Internet 'teacher' syndrome). Even if you agree they have to posture over you teaching you something and if you dare dispute (see my David Sasina vid) ohhh now you're attacking the 'lord's anointed'... I wonder if he's still alive. You can't believe how many have croaked shortly after i get done with them in the last 33 yr or so of doing my thing on the net. My usual 'thing' is to confront errant teaching by asking questions and doing scripture exegesis. I get ignored, misunderstood deliberately often and personally attacked. All these years keeping my personal info where people can contact if they want. The number of times I was booted for employing matt 18:15-xx w/ people claiming to be in Christ...yikes. And right after like Nabeel get cancer or Hendry hits a semi w/ his wife and they lose their heads or Manley goes hunting next day and a guy murders him....head of a oneness group...heart attack doa... WHAT DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT "Many are sick among you because they fail to discern the body of Christ'? Love reasons. These people have not the love of God...only puffed up heads

[@bill_y4762]

Tigerex966 very well said. Really that is the heart of the issue. Calvinism is utter blasphemy. It attributes all evil to God. Basically the most satanic teaching ever vomited out of the mouth of the Devil. The truth which is God in his great love and wisdom Chose to give His creatures a measure of free will. It was so important to Him He was willing to die for it (their failure to use it rightly) and give men the choice to follow Him even in their most broken state and receive His forgiveness and the power to serve Him through the Holy Spirit. A good and gracious God, satan (calvins god) is the actual author of evil.

[@maryhirst9127]

Will never understand how anyone can truly believe in calvinism and call God a God of love. Far to much controversy on the subject mainly by intellectual theologians , it's an illogical doctrine and breeds pride an elite nessie.

[@c.g.ryderii2405]

Forget titles, Read the Bible, Follow Jesus, not man. Read the gospels and see what Jesus taught. Simple as that. Much love brothers and sisters Jesus is King

[@thelasthourgetready]

amen that alone tells you calvanism is false.

[@nikao7751]

Don't forget to study the 7 letters from Christ in revelation to know what more He expects from his church

[@yknot1685]

Fred Miller yes let's pray for brother Flowers that his video reaches others that are still stuck in the muck of the sins of ingratitude and presumption. if love is not our identifying attribute in Christ then I would suggest we are missing the mark and need to, as Christ states in his letter to ephesus, repent and return to our first love.

[@104littleal6]

Fred Miller "...dividing the Word of God." You're wrong on that point for sure. You made ink on paper, a phonic sound out of the mouth of the Lord a proper noun of the Lord Jesus, as does so many in error. Revelation 19:13 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and *his name is called The Word of God.* Luke 11:28 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that *hear the word of God, and keep it.* Word of God = The Lord Jesus. word of God = written or spoken words.

[@johnfruechte3265]

@Fred Miller that sounds good, rightly dividing the Word. But when it is said, many are called but only a few chosen; Means many or everyone is being called to the gospel of Jesus Christ, to hear, understand and follow. Those that follow in truth are of God's chosen elect. That means it is for everyone to seek that spiritual revelation through Christ.

[@ShowCat1]

I feel as if you just set me free to live my life in Christ, free from the confusing restraint of the Calvinistic doctrine. It's been a long four decades coming. Thank you brother Flowers, THANK YOU! Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so. The true beauty of a flower is not in its description, but in its effect.

[@m.d.d4250]

Yay! That must be such a relief because now you can rely on yourself instead of God. Smh.

[@djohnson3093]

@@m.d.d4250 Is that what you got out of this comment? Seriously? Oh wait! Calvinism. When it's absolutely necessary to tweak everything you read for the purpose of propping up your false doctrine.

[@ScottRachelson777]

I knew the doctrine of Calvinism was wrong the moment I began reading the Bible as a new believer, not because of any innate intelligence or foresight I possessed, but because I was thirsty to know the truth, and so I humbly asked the Lord to reveal it to me and He answered my questions without fail.

[@marcellecoelho8380]

what has He revealed to you? Calvinism has been killing me, i want Him to talk to me too

[@jj691]

@@ScottRachelson777 if you prayed and asked the lord to tell you what the canon is, what will he say?

[@yksinainen11]

I'm really glad I'm not the one only that thinks like this. You're very good at explaining how salvation works based on the Bible. Thank you for posting this video.

[@ShowCat1]

I was debating a Calvinist over a certain point. When he ran out of answers I suggested that he might be wrong and should reconsider his stance on the particular subject. He sternly interrupted me and said "Listen, I have been teaching this for over twenty years!" The inference from his tone and body language was, "I can't be wrong, I have been preaching this too long to admit that I might be wrong." One of the most stealthy ways for Satan to deceive a believer is to make them servant to their doctrine rather than to the One whom the doctrine is about.

[@cmk5724]

It's more of an existential crisis that he was trying to avoid.

[@Deeelite-17]

Well said, Kenray!👍

[@theparadigmshift74]

Interesting! Good point

[@marstothestars33]

Sunk cost fallacy

[@bible1st]

You talk like an atheist. Calvinism is false. ​@@marstothestars33

[@higiniomorales459]

Thank you brother, i really needed this message. I encountered a 5 point Calvinist a couple weeks ago, and he pretty much came at me exactly how you said they would. God bless you brother, in Jesus name. All i did was mentioned that all men and women have free Will, and the Calvinist brother called me a heretic, and accused me of stealing the Lord's glory or something like that.... i also don't like the way he talks about the Lost at times, it sounds like he's looking at them like Vessels of Destruction, rather than Lost human beings.

[@rpavich]

And of course no Calvinist would say men don't have a will, the question is; what does the bible say about man's will and their ability to please God? (hint hint: They can't please God nor do they want to. Their will is enslaved, not free) So this Calvinist (if that's what he told you) was just telling you what the bible says about it and your beef isn't with him, it's with the bible.

[@emarvin135]

rpavich you’re ridiculous. Have you ever read 1 Cor 5:1-5? Is that guy elect or not? Paul says he is. Calvinism can’t stand. We’re people in the Old Testament regenerated? When did they get regenerated? according to this damaging doctrine you don’t even know if you have trampled underfoot the blood. Have you sinned willfully after coming to knowledge of the truth? You don’t even realize how sharp that sword is. Our faith in Jesus is in no way connected to our works. That’s Paul. You have more beef with the Bible than you even know.

[@frame3139]

Watch most Calvinists preachers and it’s pretty much like getting a stern chewing out. Not very loving, you can preach without compromise without being “hateful” for lack of a better word.

[@djohnson3093]

@@rpavich Out of context much?

[@bill_y4762]

Calvinists say you are stealing Gods glory because they define faith as a work (which is contrary to the entire book of Romans). In their system if faith is a work which merits salvation then you are the author of your own salvation because you believed (or chose God). The system actually makes complete logical sense but not scriptural sense because Paul literally and repeatedly defines faith as the opposite of a work, and the salvation that comes through faith is a Gift from God (which is to say faith does not warrant salvation, God in His mercy chooses to inpute righteousness to those who believe, they didn't earn it). Faith is the non work. This is a major point of the book of Romans and is somewhat mystically missed by Calvinists.

[@jimdoyle383]

all who hear the gospel and repent of their sins and believe on Jesus the Christ shall be saved and have eternal life

[@garyleemusic]

Repentance of sins isn’t a requirement of obtaining eternal life. Repentance of sins is a discipleship issue after believing for eternal life. The book of John proves this to us. It’s the only book in the Bible written to unbelievers. It follows that all the information we need is in John’s gospel. The word repentance is in the book zero times. Over and over we’re told that believing in Christ for the promise of everlasting life is the only condition to receive everlasting life.

[@johngodsey5327]

@@garyleemusic that’s right. You can repent or f sins after salvation, but it has nothing to do with salvation The only condition is belief / faith

[@garyleemusic]

@G G The offer of eternal life wasn't offered to demons. What they believe doe does nothing to diminish that eternal is through simply believing that Jesus is the Christ, the one who guarantees eternal life to all who believe in Him for it. God bless!

[@Patrick.Kordoulis]

@@garyleemusicMark 1:14-15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” I don’t know if your comment is accurate or not.

[@vanishyt2348]

I’m seeing a lot of people find comfort from ur videos and it makes me happy as I myself am looking too find the truth for I was meet with this theology in a very dark time in my life as a Christian and at first it made sense and there was so much scripture too back it up.( supposedly) but I never questioned truly what this new found friend and mentor would tell me. Until now and have been met with very harsh arguments and accusations I have never had too deal with. I am Growing (praise God) but it can definitely take a toll on me. But seeing videos like this really helps. And im glad it has helped other people. Im praying earnestly that God reveals the truth too me. And I thank him for not letting my self be conformed with a theology with out question specially with one that the more I study on it seems too be taking so much scripture out of context and under-minding God grace as u have said that Gods grace doesn’t need more grace on top of it. Because if it does then why did Jesus say it is finished on the cross? And speacially not with a theology that undermines how it constantly says too repent and believe and u will be saved.(what’s the point of that if the apostles knew that only the select or a certain people would be chosen too be saved) and they definitely undermine his grace and love for the world. Yet I am aware he hates sinners and the wicked. As sin grew so did his grace. But again I have not come too a conclusion but I am very happy with being able too hear the many great points u are making! God bless

[@charlynewilliams5189]

@@vanishyt2348 The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth!

[@kevinrobb8367]

I have listened to many of your videos. I believe this is your best. Admitting you were wrong is very difficult to do personally let alone publicly. God bless you, your family and your much needed ministry.

[@rawar777joshanderson]

This is the most thorough non-calvinist view I've heard since reading "Debating Calvinism" by James White and Dave Hunt.

[@J_a_s_o_n]

We are disciples of Jesus Christ! We are believers. We are NOT non Calvinists!

[@Steve-og4ii]

Have you read his book:" What Love is This? Calvinisms Misrepresentation of God"?

[@rawar777joshanderson]

@@Steve-og4ii No but my brother and dad have and it's been in my "To read" que for a while.

[@johnmartys2930]

Leighton, I have been on my own journey through this subject for a while. I love RC Sproul and listen to him quite often, however struggle with his position on the predeterminism. Your commentary has helped me greatly in making sense of God's salvation and our free will to accept his beautiful gift.

[@invisibleman53]

There is predeterminism, as in Revelations tells us. Satan WILL be defeated. As far as humans having no free will to come to God for mercy of our sin, I can't believe that. Bible says, God chose us, but I believe, WE HAVE to hear His Word first and chose to accept God's Word and His mercy. That's where Calvinists believe that God has already CHOSEN those that will be accepted by Him, and all created other humans will be damned to hell forever. Why would God create a person, knowing that predetermined that that person would go to hell, with eternal punishment?

[@kimberleerivera3334]

R.C. has been misled, and if anyone follows him, they too will be misled. He bought a "man's" theilogy, hook, line and sinker. I think it always starts with pride.

[@irisgreene4175]

Yes! The Bible references the dangers of being “puffed up.” I’m coming out of Seventh Day Adventism and was told McArthur/Sproul were solid pastors. However after studying them intensely over past several weeks I still feared for my salvation. Hearing yesterday for first time what Calvinism is (didn’t even know that’s what they are… God bless a commenter speaking up) Im finally experiencing some long sought after peace. And wouldn’t you know it - googled Ellen White’s opinion, and she was a huge supporter of Calvinism (so ta-dah, I was going round the same pointless, torturous circle)

[@Steve20333]

Sproul even doubted his own salvation whe he saw himself through the Calvinist lens . John Calvin was a murderer,and a liar ,historical facts. He turned Geneva into an inquisition . sentencing people to death bannishing people from the city . persecuting other Christians for disagreeing with him . In England they imprisoned Christians for refusing Calvins doctrine ,took their belongings ,stole their property . all because they said only the scriptures . sola scriptura!

[@jimbobo8193]

I believe the 5 points>> R.U.D.I.P. (Radical Corruption, Unconditional election, Definite Atonement, Irresistable Grace, and Perseverence of the Saints (Preservation of the Savior)). Arminians can be saved. logic is not required for salvation!. God has given us our teachable minds and His Spirit to understand the deep things of Scripture and we have the mind of Christ (by His Spirit). Leighton Flowers is in my opinion wrong. Reformed soteriology is difficult. It is almost impossible for JW's, Mormons, and many others to understand these deep truths, unless they become Christians (By God's grace!). But the requirement for salvation is not Biblical logic. The requirement is that Jesus died for your sins and enabled you to trust Him alone for eternal life. RUDIP are my 5 points that refute un-Biblical Arminianism. - J.B.

[@MistyEry]

Yes, this is one thing I never understood was how choosing Christ is boastful in anyway. It’s humbling, and glorifies Him because God who in his right could condemn everyone yet had made a way for us to be reconciled for him. Therefore why boast about choosing him when many of us had to come to the conclusion that we are nothing without Him. I remember begging Christ to save me, just like prodigal when I was stuck in the midst of living in a sinful and abusive relationship. I thought I was too far gone, But God in his mercy had listen to my cry, and rescued me 7 times. I felt like the modern gomar, Christ was my deliverer and How amazing is He, how wonderful, and faithful is He, that he should rescue me out of my brokenness. There is nothing to boast about, but his goodness.

[@jorgealejandroramirezbetan5238]

¿NOS CREO PARA SOMETERNOS O RELACIONARNOS? ¿BASADO EN SU CARACTER O EN MI CREENCIA ME CREO?

[@EricTheReddish-Gray]

We could debate theological points for a thousand years and still not get anywhere, and still not prove any one view is more true than another. So, it's a waste of time. However, trying to help our neighbors and the poor is what Jesus really wants us to do.

[@AnonymeUser-nx5bv]

Yes that's true but a correct comprehensive of God is a must ! Romans 3:10-18: "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes And yet ? Rom 8:29-30: "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Foreknow isn't passiv. Phil 1:5-6: "For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" Heb 12:2: "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Romans 9, 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

[@POWFAM2011]

Growing up in a Calvinist family, I went to a Calvinist K-12 school and was baptized and married in a Calvinist church, went to Calvin Camp in the summer, my sister was a Calvinette, my brothers were Calvin Cadets, took Calvinist catechism, went to a Young Calvinist Federation convention during the summer in high school, and finally went to and graduated from Calvin College. Remind me again who the object of our worship should be?? True story.

[@nateboy123]

Are you still a Calvinist?

[@tarnos4153]

Weren’t that your family and your choices, not John Calvin’s?

[@ipaporod]

We can not work our way into heaven (Salvation by works) nor can we also be forced (irresistible grace) to get into heaven!.That is why Jesus Christ created man and the Angels with a free will (proof of it is why Angel rebelled against God, they made that choice and God allowed it),.God does not force anyone into loving Him and worship Him, it must come from our hearts and it must come willingly and freely (like the angels , we have a choice also), not by force .I don't know where this man J.Calvin got that crazy idea that man does not have control over his decisions and as such man is to be controlled and manipulated by the Holy Ghost to get him into heaven!.

[@YerPope]

"nor can we also be forced (irresistible grace)" Were you born into the world by the choice of your "free will"?

[@YerPope]

"nor can we also be forced (irresistible grace)" Were you born into the world by the choice of your "free will"?

[@valoraboveall5793]

Free Will means that we have the will to choose what we desire and the natural man doesnt desire God.

[@camo4635]

Agree with u in part but not about the angels having free will. If ur interested we can share a dialogue

[@jenverhelst6477]

John calvin’s point was not about anything that happened in heaven or before the fall into sin,but rather about after the fall into sin. In Mark 7:21 Jesus makes the point abundantly clear; continued: “What comes out of a man, that is what defiles him. 21For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,22greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. 23All these evils come from within, and these are what defile a man.” TheThen also check out Jeremiah 17:9The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. So John Calvin’spoint simply is that man cannot come to God of his own. God needs to be involved. How ? That I don’t pretend to know. But John6:37 may give us a clue; 37Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.

[@Mike-qt7jp]

Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it." So, as a Calvinist, do you really believe that God arbitrarily creates some people for one reason; to burn for eternity in hell. The Calvinist can try to spin this anyway they want, but this verse has God saying, "... I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” So, this is something happening that God did not determine or cause to happen.

[@Charlie_Davidson]

Well stated!

[@knxcholx]

Exactly

[@michelle5936]

What an amazing thing we would see if the Church would start reading the Bible and being led by the Holy Spirit instead of man. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6 KJV God Bless

[@xTheUnknownTruthx]

@Vaticanus Fidelis Pretty sure she is not talking about the universal church of Satan or corpus hermeticum...

[@michaelibach9063]

My own experience, I was an atheist and couldn’t believe but wanted to. A point came where I said as much in a sudo Prayer. A week later, God took care of my unbelief.

[@evanu6579]

Michael Ibach You wanted to believe. Amen.

[@Stefanoabed05]

It's been five months, so happy for you brother, welcome home

[@valoraboveall5793]

@@evanu6579 A thing he couldnt have done without God making the first move. We are powerless dust.

[@evanu6579]

Valor Above All But dead men are capable of wanting to be right with God. That’s what he said and that’s what the bible said. Calvinists claim that the only thing that can change that wicked depraved heart is irresistible grace. Are you claiming something different? He wanted to before regeneration. That’s a big problem for your stance.

[@djohnson3093]

@@valoraboveall5793 You mean like we can only come if the Father draws us? (John 6:44). Do you believe that Jesus is God? Because He said when He is lifted up He will draw ALL men to Himself. (John 12:32). (Insert calvinist definition of "ALL" here)

[@mattflynn1342]

Awesome video, thank you! Without God I am doomed - With God I am free to operate as a free moral agent under His Sovereign will for my life, by my confession and faith in the shed blood of Jesus and His resurrection from the dead!

[@thereseservais924]

You tell it in such a humble and heartful way. Wow. I listen to John Mc Arthur and R.C. Sproul with interest because they love the Scripture. But I can't follow them in their calvinistic assumptions. I was born again 38 years ago without knowing about calvinism. Ivhave never attended a reformed church either. Some knowledge about calvinism came much later. It's sometimes hard to navigate through those concepts and I pray for God's guidance and light. I just try to follow Jesus, not Calvin or anyone else. Listening to your channel helps. So thank you for your work. God bless you. Greetings from the Netherlands.

[@roebbiej]

@@thereseservais924 Dutch guy here as well. I was raised reformed (gereformeerde kerk) and it ruined my life and my Faith. Thank God I know the truth now, which is that Jesus died for everyone, and the gift can be accepted by faith.

[@thereseservais924]

@@roebbiej Amen. Gods zegen !

[@Cosigner22]

Video starts at 11:20... I think it's sad that we isolate ourselves into these petty factions. We are ONE BODY.

[@buhawilakas4439]

Thank you. He talks too much of unnecessary matters to the subject.

[@samisbrown]

God bless you sir! This teaching has come in a time of great need in my life, Calvinism has hurt me to the core, I was stripped away from my joy and assurance in my salvation through Christ Jesus, I felt if God made most people for hell there was no ways I was the elect. Not having the Lambs book of life there was no way I could have any assurance of where I was gonna spend eternity. I’m not mad at Calvinism or Calvinist I think these people are genuine, but it caused me great confusion and made me doubt that God even loved me. Thank you again and God bless you sir.

[@sha0071972]

I don't understand your view of Calvinism, or why you doubt God's love for you, once you have become a follower of Christ you are instantly part of the elect and your salvation is secure and cannot be taken away otherwise it was never genuine in the first place. that is my understanding of it and seems to be backed up by scripture.

[@jamesaborque6007]

I don't think u understand calvinism

[@scott8129]

@Sam Brown Well said. God indeed loves you.

[@emarvin135]

Yeah Calvinism is dangerous. I’ll be divisive about it to a degree. The issue i have is that with this line of thinking the evidence of true faith is works for the Calvinist. Many preachers are teaching that if you remain in unrepentant sin you are not truly regenerated. It’s easily refuted by 2 different passages by Paul to the corinthians. Firstly 1 Cor 5:5 where the man in a particularly gross sin is told to be kicked out of the church so his flesh will die and his spirit will be saved in the day of Christ. Second when Paul says there are some who haven’t repented in the church! If calvinists took their own fruit inspections to John Calvin himself, would he pass? The truth must must MUST be rightly divided! Proper dispensational theology makes sense of James, Hebrews, Matthew, Revelation, 1 John and Acts. Paul only taught faith without works. Check out David peacock on the kingdom of heaven vs the kingdom of God If you want to explore it further. I know the burden I was under thinking I made shipwreck of the faith. God bless brother.

[@andrewsimedru2156]

Whenever I doubt my salvation, I like reading the meditations of the puritans. 'Tis a point I long to know, Oft it causes anxious thought; Do I love the Lord or no? Am I his, or am I not? His free grace alone, from the first to the last, Hath won my affection, and held my soul fast. Nothing in my hand I bring Simply to the cross I cling. Venture on him, venture wholly, Let no other trust intrude; None but Jesus kind and loving, Can do helpless sinners good. Here's pardon for transgressions past, It matters not how black their cast, And O my soul, with wonder view, For sins to come, here's pardon too. Fully discharged by Christ I am, From Christ's tremendous curse and blame. His tried Almighty arm Is raised for your defence; Where is the power can reach you there? Or what can pluck you thence? His honor is engaged to save The meanest of his sheep; All that his Heavenly Father gave His hand securely keeps. What may be be my future lot, High or low concerns me not; This doth set my heart at rest: What my God appoints is best.

[@DannyFitzpatrick-c8v]

Leighton, I remember an incredible night all night debate/discussion a little over 20 years ago at Paisano Baptist Encampment at youth camp with you and Jason. It was a debate but it was invigorating. I would say the chokehold Calvanism had on you was starting to let you free. After Jason went to bed the discussion changed and I was encouraged so much even on points we didn’t necessarily agree on yet. I’ve watched and followed your current postings I’m thankful for your journey and the chance to learn from your experience. I hope you are well. Blessings to you my brother.

[@elaineauo]

Have listened to this multiple times. Always so good and encouraging. Our loving God is amazing. Praise Jesus!

[@tracykarol]

I give glory to God for my salvation while I was steeped in sin, a wretched sinner. Not boasting, but testifying what Christ did in my life.

[@yakapo999]

Former Calvinist here (recent). The good part begins at 11:20.

[@danielasmale8835]

Thank you! I have never been a Calvinist. I appreciated your video and especially the last point about free will. It never made sense to me why Calvinists would challenge free will. As if God was afraid of man’s free will. God would want people to actually choose him and want to be with him. It is a relationship. If only one side has free will, then it is not a real relationship. It would be evil of God to only choose some for salvation and others not. This goes against the nature of God. Appreciated your video and am happy you made the decision to leave Calvinism. 😃👍🏻

[@saracapehart5102]

This was a such a gracious, kind and humble way to communicate your position. Thank you for posting this and for all the videos you provide. God bless!

[@Pooki-z6x]

After coming out of 30 years of WOF NAR teaching, i followed and struggled with calvinism for 2 years. Bless you for your teaching. Brilliant!

[@455rockett]

The 1 point that saved me from never ever belonging to calvanism or reformed: "the love of Jesus for me"

[@TabithaDavis]

I honestly lean more towards Calvinism but I don't pressure myself to make up my mind on which doctrine is correct because ultimately it's faith in Jesus, whether I chose Him or He chose me first, that saves me. JESUS, his death and resurrection. Thank God it is not a salvation issue.

[@sandeepsinghrajput4308]

But knowing right doctrine matters a lot. Knowing right doctrine is related with your faith and believe in Christ. So it matters a lot.

[@5ivepoints18]

We all believe salvation comes in the same way, it's just a difference in opinion on how people get there. You're right, it's not a salvation issue & shouldn't divide us like it does. Proud sinners on both sides yelling at each other doesn't help us reach the lost.

[@5ivepoints18]

@@sandeepsinghrajput4308 Only 1 doctrine is related with my faith & that is that Jesus Christ is God, He was crucified for my sins & He rose from the dead to defeat death so I can live forever.

[@mr.e1220]

True faith will always include obedience to God's commands out of love.

[@bill_y4762]

It is a salvation issue. If calvinism is true its not possible to repent. Its not possible to turn to god. According to them its not even possible to turn to God even if He draws you! (He has to do both, the drawing and the response in your heart). Man has no part or response in any of it. This is what they call monergistic salvation, that it is all God alone, there is not some kind of submission or response by man. Literally man cannot even beat his breast and say “god have mercy on me the sinner”. None of the was of that man, he’s completely and 100% dead. God literally had to “Regenerate” his will just to get the man to even pray that prayer. The man no more could have resisted it than dead Frankenstein’s monster could have resisted being assembled together as a corpse and have electricity shot through his body until he came to life!! That’s literally what they teach you can verify everything I am saying by studying 5 points calvinism (TULIP). I’m not sure i would recommend it though, its like eating a box of nails (with no salt), some of the points of tulip are some of the most Anti-scriptural assertions ever made (especially “L” limited atonement). Its stunning and beyond comprehension anyone could believe limited atonement you just have to throw out verse after verse after verse after verse after verse.

[@ACBaker67]

Thank you, Dr. Flowers. I rarely entertain a debate on this subject, but sometimes I’m forced. So often those who push the issue are quick to admit that this is their “favorite” doctrine - and that should be a red flag. And why do they (the Calvinists) have to be so abrasive, forceful, antagonistic? I truly believe it is because they have a faulty view of God’s sovereignty that demands of them an almost Muslim-like indignation that erupts into a defense of God when challenged. It’s like any other view of election and grace is an affront to holy character of God, so they treat the unconvinced like infidels. Funny, but why is it that it’s more from Reformed Baptists that this attitude erupts, not Presbyterian??

[@glurp1]

The Quran says that Allah is the "best of deceivers." This is true of God according to Calvinism because God speaks to people throughout Scripture as if they have the ability to do otherwise in their decisions but they actually don't.

[@godsstruggler8783]

I have observed the same spirit behind some (not all) Calvinists and some (not all) Muslims. They disguise fatalism as Sovereignty.

[@hokeypokeydoodledandy]

I don't have any "degrees" and haven't been to bible college, but I have the Holy Spirit to teach me and I've read Curtis Hutson's little book "Why I Disagree With All Five Points of Calvinism" That cinched it for me.

[@alinakrohn7726]

Thank you brother. This meant so very much to me. I'm not Calvinist, but when I studied it after discovering some of my family members are Calvinist, I was somewhat heartbroken; such a confusing doctine... One relative told me outright that God chose some BELIEVERS to go to hell, before the laying of the foundations of the world. I bawled like a baby, off and on for days, being tempted by Satan to believe it could be true! PRAISE GOD, He Who IS Love, for gently rescuig me from that stream of thinking!! I bless GOD, oh my soul, and thank HIM every day for such elucidations. Love you in Christ Jesus 💓🙆

[@mydaddysgirl2909]

I had the same experience! It almost made me suicidal, but there is no relief in the Calvinist system and suicide would only deepen my despair if they were right. I cried out to God to show me the truth and if Calvinism was true could God please somehow take me out of existance because everything was just too horrible to bear. Jesus said his yoke was easy and he would give us rest for our souls and He does. Calvinists don't get it and their burden is unbearable. John Calvin had people executed for disagreeing with him. Why would you want to identify with him? I study scripture so my belief is not based on emotion but Dr. Flowers explains that better than I could. Thank God for Dr. Flowers and C.S. Lewis, D.L. Moody, Dr. Chuck Missler, John Wesley and other non-Calvinists He has given us to help restore us to peace in Him!

[@djura3]

Very good testimony. You are, brother, a real gem among teachers today. Greetings from Europe.

[@taufgesinntechristen3975]

BOY, the first time I heard about the corporate view of election which I came to see, too! I do appeciate your gentle approach in this talk.

[@dougrotondi2691]

I have never met a Calvinist that wasn’t 1. Indoctrinated with Calvinism from Seminary 2. Taught by someone who was indoctrinated by Calvinism from Seminary 3. Indoctrinated by reading a book from a Calvinist No one comes to Calvinism on their own through reading the Bible without being indoctrinated by someone else.

[@rylencason4420]

@@dougrotondi2691 That's where you're wrong. I became a Calvinist through scripture alone. Ephesians 1:4, 2:8-10

[@nealwright5630]

I have family who are Calvinists. Why is it that Calvinists so loudly proclaim "Sola Scriptura" and yet are so obsessed with the post-Apostolic church leaders?

[@wesleyyerkes7396]

As I have been saying for years as Calvinist fight Arminians and vice versa, "any doctrine that is so closely aligned to a man that it bears his name, is bound to contain error." Scriptural ideas that seem to be apparent contradictions are actually balancing texts to try to help man comprehend what God is trying to reveal to we finite beings. Can we say that we fully comprehend and understand the mind of God? We need to leave these doctrines in tension and stop trying to put God in our perfect little theological boxes or whatever other form of construct we wish to call it. When I debate Calvinists they call me an "Arminian," but then I debate an Arminian and he calls me a "Calvinist." I contend as this video has revealed that there is a balanced view in between these two swings of the pendulum. I have known Calvinist who switch to Arminian and even "Open Theism" (which frankly is nuts) and I have known Arminians who swung to the side of Calvinism. Both man made "theological constructs" emphasize their favorite verses strictly in the narrow embrace of their beliefs and basically dismiss or do textual gymnastics with texts that seem to support the opposing view. We just need to let ALL Scripture speak and interpret or balance itself in our understand of God and how in guides the affairs of men to fulfill His ultimate purposes and plans. His knowing everything is hard for us to wrap our minds (which know so little) around. Excellent video! Hope to get the book.

[@ttrxde4349]

This is where I have come too on my walk as well. Why does it have to be either or

[@ah-il9xt]

Thank you for your videos. I was raised in a cult (called "the truth" or - "2x2s" by outsiders), God opened my eyes when I was 20, and I've been out of that for a decade now and understanding the gospel so much better, and shortly after leaving the cult with great desire for fellowship with Christians, without more fully studying Christian theology, my husband and I joined a church that seemed gospel-centered and we came to learn what "Reformed" meant and readily accepted the doctrine. A decade later, I am wanting to be open and start studying and deciding for myself what I really believe. It's so easy to be convinced by other people on what is really true as far as theology. The biggest concern I have experienced is the shocking amount of pride that came with me having calvinistic beliefs. I became a very judgmental and critical person. It's taken me a while to see this and God is driving me towards being a more compassionate person again. I am sure this is not always the case, but I've seen this time and again through the church we were in previously and also other online resources. There is some sort of air of pride and superiority that can so easily come with calvinism... but it is cloaked in the disguise of "humility before God". It's like I became prideful about how supposedly humble I was to accept that God chose me and that He was doing all of it without me having a say. This is the bottom line problem for me. Knowing God shouldn't cause me to become prideful and judgmental. It should lead me to true humility, overflowing love for Him and for others. This is just my experience. I have always been bothered by the whole free will topic and have never understood how God can be just and loving to choose some over others. I would say, over what criteria does He choose some over others? Others would say that He can do that because He's God. Well, sure. I agreed with that. But how can a LOVING God doom some to hell without any choice? That never set right with me. I just figured I was somehow not understanding it. Your video has given me much to think about and pray about. Thank you for your honest thoughts. I'm so thankful we can trust God in this process as He is teaching all of us wherever we are at in our understanding. I never want my theology to outweigh my love for God and others, because without love, what is the point? God bless!

[@m.d.d4250]

Please, I grew up arminian and there are prideful people on both sides. God chooses people according to the counsel of His own will and not because of anything in and of the person themselves. That alone should make people very humble, and thankful knowing that their salvation is all of the grace of God. If you ask me, arminians are prideful thinking they were wiser and more spiritual than all the other sinners out there who didn't "choose God" for themselves and can then pat themselves on the back for doing so.

[@carlandre8610]

GOD is so Good. I can not agree more with what you said. God values God's own integrity. God sets his own parameters. Gob Bless. God wants self Government under his King and Lordship. The Holy Ghost is what God gives us freely when we are born again and is the Govenor in us.Jesus is our King and has returned to the Father. God's purpose for saving us was not so we can be trophies.we are now Citizens of a Spiritual Kingdom here right now on earth. God's plan was to give man authority Dominion.Jesus died to restore us to his original purpose and proper relationship. Jesus is the way to his Kingdom he is the King.time to start right now.we can be with Christ forever and we are saved from the despair of being separated from Christ.

[@godsstruggler8783]

I've found that hyper Arminianism is more often given to pride and hyper Calvinism to false humility - where said proponents of either set of doctrines identify specifically as one or the other. I once said that I'm neither and that position was perceived to be impossible by those I was speaking with in an online forum. Satan is the master of false dichotomies and has many spellbound by them.

[@cindyweatherly4501]

Was St. Augustine The First To Introduce " Calvinism " To The Church? Dr. Ken Wilson, Soteriology 101

[@zcollins11]

Hey, I know of the 2x2s, you’re the first person I’ve ever seen mention them without having to dig because it’s such a secretive group. My girlfriend is in the 2x2s and I had no idea what they were until she told me about them about 3 months into our relationship, she said she wanted out and I was able to teach her about my faith which has been an awesome experience, I’m also starting to see some change in her parents lives too and hoping that maybe they can see actual truth for themselves someday. God bless!!

[@joshuakim802]

Great video, finally decided to come here after being hurt by Calvinism, and a Calvinist, I was secretly one for a while. Learnt about this channel through memes insulting the channel, a friend referred the channel to me, I didn't want to check it out until now, since I've heard Dr Flowers, I've received peace regarding my salvation. Thank you very much. Hyped :) Praise the Lord

[@christianmcneal1924]

Most of the discussions on this thread are really... really terrible. Every Calvinist has encountered every single Arminian and vis versa, tossing out ghastly generalizations that cover multitudes of people and perspectives. Any commenter attempting to discuss his or her viewpoints is shutdown by the opposition's unwillingness to engage intellectually and respectfully. It's such a shame. The problem of conversational breakdown is one of the key components in so many people leaving the faith. When the unsure have questions, they turn to the surrounding Christians for answers, but we tell them to wait because we are too busy interrupting each other or not listening at all to the pre-existing doctrinal conversations with our brothers and sisters on various theological topics. It's such a pride-parade of sinners pointing the finger at the other side shouting, "You're the prideful one!" Id like to declare the obvious here: this mode of operation is destructive. No love for one another.. just contempt. If your comment isn't constructive or praising in nature, try not commenting. I'm sure Leighton uploaded this video to provide testimony to his theological journey, not a slandering ground for echo-chamber buddies.

[@j.p.4910]

If people are leaving the faith because of theological debates, they most likely never truly loved Jesus. I think you are overstating your case, people are just debating online about the proper interpretation of the Bible and Christian theology. Both of these question are incredibly important. Furthermore you comment does exactly the same you claim to oppose, just pridefully tone-policing. If you would like people to take you seriously you shouldnt try to minimize issues people find important, all the while presenting yourself as some moral authority.

[@scott8129]

@Christian McNeal You are right to describe this “contempt” as destructive. May God have mercy on us all.

[@j.p.4910]

Sadly millennial forms of evangelicalisms are so concerned with superficial aspects of the faith, and their own emotional responses that they ignore scripture and despise godly authority. All the while, affecting a holier than thou attitude. It's a bizarre "love" pharisaicism that bludgeons everyone over the head demanding people to worship them and their misguided opinions "or else." Its manipulative, disengenuous, and fundamentally contrary to the Gospel.

[@DonaldDouglasJr]

Yeah I've heard some of my Calvinist customers say they haven't accepted Christ. They say God will do everything. They do nothing but wait. I thought the scripture 'behold today is the day of salvation' meant as soon as you hear it.

[@markedwards5883]

Then they aren't real Calvinists

[@charlespackwood]

Calvinism's bizarre view of deterministic predestination is more than a little perturbing. God, Himself, states in Jeremiah 7:3, 19:5 and 32:35 that God's people did things "which I had not commanded them nor had it entered My mind that they should do ...". Look, it's apparent to normal thinking people that God is not controlling every minute detail of the cosmos, simply because He is Sovereign. And the above three verses in Jeremiah has God explicitly stating this fact... out of His own mouth.

[@andrewjackson8244]

Beautifully said! I never had a word i could use to describe my theology. I am not a Calvinist and I am not an Armenian, yet both parties when I say i dont agree with them presume I belong to the other. Thankyou for giving me an answer.

[@GrahameGould]

Arminian* Armenians come from Armenia. Arminianism is named after Arminius.

[@carolinelvsewe]

I admire your willingness to share this. I have been struggling with this

[@warrenjbrown4898]

Excellent, the Lord bless and keep you in this large issue. What a kind, gracious 'come let us reason together' attitude and manner of presenting these issues but in a powerful way.

[@TAdler-ex8px]

As John warned us, Test the spirits! Christ came in humble flesh and lovingly chose to give Himself as a ransom for us. Why would Christ bear the iniquity of us all, if not to woo us and encourage trust. So love could be born from choice.

[@jamespannafino5526]

Firstly, I just wanted to say "thank you" for openly and humbly addressing this subject of Calvinism... most refreshing! Having come out of a totally non-churched (New Age) background I had no prior reference or experience with this subject of Calvinism. It wasn't until I decided to return to school (seminary at Liberty U.), 5 years after placing all my hope and trust in Christ, that such debate among believers was witnessed. I was honestly quite shocked by the TULIP doctrines (as well as hyper-predestination of the elect)... up until this time I was absorbed in the scriptures like "a newborn baby" (1 Peter 2:2), and never conceived of this controversy. I had come to comprehend the "simplicity that is in Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:3) and overwhelming admonition regarding what the scriptures had to say regarding one word, BELIEVE (gr. pisteuō)... so at this time the core premise of Calvinism (the denial of human volition, or free will) was a bit shocking and the premise that God instill the ability to believe seemed to be inherently contradicting. All this to say that I am grateful for your putting forth the journey the Lord has you on, and my prayers are that you will continue to be His voice in this generation for the truth of Jesus and the hope of life eternal with Him in heaven. John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John. 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. Acts 16:31 “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Romans 3:22 - the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. 1 Corinthians 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. Ephesians 1:18-19 ...what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. 1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

[@crabring]

Humbly? Haha he had to first announce how great of a debater he is..:-D

[@willw5930]

Your story has really hit me. I grew up in a reformed church, but I was lucky to have a pastor that focused on the study of scripture before the study of Calvinism. I grew up hearing the words of the Bible as they were meant to be read, and really did not hear anything at all about Calvinism nor Arminianism nor any church arguments about whatever. My pastor taught me correctly and did not care to argue about this kind of thing. I did not understand anything about Calvinism until i was in 10th grade. I had heard the name a few times before but I didn’t know what it was all about. When I first understood the doctrines of 5-point high Calvinism I was repulsed by it. It was disgusting to me. I was on a journey of coming back to faith in god in that time and worrying about it being true caused me much anxiety. I eventually had deep depression because I believed I was reprobate and didn’t have the free will ability to come to faith. This was because I was naturally so repulsed by Calvinism and had recently been taught that Calvinism is the truth of the Bible so I thought myself incapable of being a Christian. Calvinist made me repulsed by the Bible because they put it in my head that high Calvinism is the whole truth of the Bible and that if you don’t believe it you aren’t being an honest Christian. My natural repulsion for high 5-point Calvinism had become a repulsion for the word because calvinists made me believe it was one in the same. I wasn’t able to be Christian until I pushed all thoughts of the useless arguments of doctrine out of my head and read the word once again. This story brings me strength in my faith in the word and the word alone which saved me from my depression and feeling of exclusion from God. Thank you this is very needed as I am in the middle of a theology class in my school that I must sit through that only tries to hammer 5-point Calvinism into our heads. It affects my relationship with god greatly and is bringing back some of the anxieties of my previous belief in the doctrine. All I have to say for anyone reading, if you are teaching a new believer about god, focus on the showing them the word not your specific doctrine. Allow the word to explain the word and allow God to do his work. As long as your student seeks the truth, that is god, honestly he will be ok. Give him help when he needs but don’t push things onto him, and pray earnestly and make sure that your help is what is best for him, not spreading your very specific system of theology. For anyone that is trying to argue with me remember that I am mainly arguing against catching believers in the cross fire of useless doctrinal arguments, not just arguing about Calvinism. Calvinism had just been my experience.

[@Learnerofthings]

What prevented me from becoming a Calvinist was the simple fact that God doesn’t wish for any of us to perish but Calvinist say that he designed people specifically to perish. God cannot contradict himself and to use the excuse of ‘well he’s sovereign’ is lazy and it makes God a liar.

[@taylorpike1191]

For me it was that and their behavior. They are some of the most argumentative know-it-all Christians I've ever talked to.

[@5warpotentials258]

When I first became a Oneness Pentecostal I started to listen to the opposite sides point of view and I got a lot of John MacArthur and RC Sproul and I could see where we differed and where we were the same, but I ultimately came to the conclusion that Calvinism came off as arrogant through its teachers and pastors and all who preach Calvinist Teachings, but what really did it in the end was when I saw John MacArthur try to to explain why some are chosen and others are not and his response really spoke to me that they would prefer to defend their false doctrine to the death than to admit they are wrong and call everyone else wrong because they have too much to lose

[@mugabedavid4845]

That's true only GOD can save them from it

[@sheilasmith7779]

So true. We are proud and loyal. Our identity gets wrapped up in the family we identify with. If we seek truth above all, truly want to know God's word, we will find it.

[@Heavyperro]

I go to a reformed church. My family and I are grateful for the respect and care given to the preaching of God’s word. We are currently seeking a new church after 10 years. Our experience has been mostly positive and we’ve learned a lot but we have struggled to build community with others. I’ve often been disgusted by how other men in our church respond to any doubt or questions that attempt to clear up some of the church’s beliefs. In some cases, it seems like a (excuse my language) pissing contest on who knows more and is able to present it using the biggest words while quoting some obscure writer from the 18th century. Our church does very little to evangelize, which we also wish was seen more in our church. I have great respect for many reformed pastors that I truly believe want to teach the Bible but I don’t see myself or my family growing in community there. Off we go to find a new place.

[@godslittleman5451]

I was once a Calvinism hater like Leighton, preached against it, read tons of books debunking it and vowed to destroy it as much as possible. But after years of evangelizing and witnessing I realized that God has to do a miracle in a persons heart before they can ever see or experience the kingdom. When the Bible says, “predestinated before the foundation of the world,” it is not speaking of man’s best future effort to believe and repent, it is talking about God’s future knowledge of His work in that Christian’s heart. Leighton would be much better off directing his efforts towards some other ministry, he is exercising himself in matters that are to great for him, just like I did, in pride.

[@steray8112]

Very fair presentation.. my adherence to Calvinism is that it frees me to witness to anyone anytime. Salvation does not come from or by the will of the flesh, (Jn 1:12,13). I don't know who is elect, and neither do they, but if they admit they are sinners and in sin, then the only question remaining is "Do you want to ask for help (salvation, deliverance, forgiveness)" and if there is any sign of the Spirit's presence, then proceed immediately asking for His life and Spirit and thanking Him for it. Rarely have I seen anyone come to faith where they did not admit to their total depravity and totally surrendering to the gift presented. All too often I have seen hands raised, prayers prayed, and socially acceptable "Christian" behavior slapped on for all to see. Strangely enough, it was a tongues speaking arminianist who led me to the Lord. So I let God be God, He has mercy on whom He wills, and I will never get it. Go figure.

[@John-jh5ks]

God’s Holy character is maligned - if we believe the doctrine of a mere man - John Calvin. If we were to personally experience some of the horrors committed by some people, I don’t think we’d be so quick to resign ourselves to the erroneous thought, that it’s for “God’s good pleasure.” Focus on Jesus Christ❤️ Holy, pure, righteous, merciful, spotless Saviour for all those who FREELY BELIEVE in HIM. Thank you Mr Leighton. Your videos are very helpful.

[@auntieanna]

When God takes you from the mire and puts your feet on the Rock, you know Who is responsible. Unfortunately, it isn't His Sovereignty or election that maligns His Character, but Limited Atonement & Eternal Torment. The Total Victory of Christ KZbin Channel has it ♡

[@susanshafer9696]

Whatever causes inability doesn't matter but it remains. Otherwise exegete John 6:44 [Jesus] "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day"

[@rick_h]

We are all called. If the Father does not call, we cannot come. Everybody is called. Not all will come. If we could come without being called, we would have a reason to brag. There will be no bragging in heaven.

[@paulgcasso6279]

Susan Shafer The fall of man caused our inability :) God bless 😀 👍 🙌 ☝️

[@Applest2oApples]

How will there be no bragging in heaven when some Christians get greater rewards than others based upon their works at the bema seat judgement?

[@snippletrap]

Bragging is a sinful form of self-glorification. In heaven the work that God has begun in us will be completed, and we will have no desire or ability to sin. There will be neither envy nor boasting but only congratulations and wonder all around.

[@Applest2oApples]

This same point can be used to defeat Paul's argument in Ephesians 2 concerning why salvation isn't through works.

[@jeffreybomba]

I was never a Calvinist, but I did hold to Conditional Security early in my walk. This came crashing down one day when I decided to read through Romans without stopping to get lost in any weeds. When I got to the Tree and the Branches I realized that the Paul had been discussing the nations of Jew and Gentile throughout the book and he had already mad it clear that the Jews were chosen for the PURPOSE of being a light and the line of Messiah, not salvation. I realized the tree represented opportunity/knowledge which the gentiles were grafters into with the giving of the out pouring of the spirit.

[@lhjarq]

I would like to point out that predestination is taken in the context that God knows everything "before the foundation of the world" . In our limited sight, people will comment and explain what they think base on their limited knowledge.

[@protruth1]

The bible prevented me from ever entering into Calvinism

[@chriscagle4226]

Amen me too

[@knxcholx]

@@chaziadol7884 they think they are superior. They're exactly like the Pharisees who thought they were superior because of their actions. Could not realize their own problems. So self righteous

[@huskerguy5715]

The church has increasingly become like the world around them we hear and see so often. It used to be that one could disagree and go grab lunch together. Today, that has been replaced by a lack of engaging the issues objectively and replacing it with dismissive name-calling and one-liners that don't fully engage what the other person believes. Thank you for both the manner and content of the video. Whether we fully agree or not, this is how Christians should engage one another. A failure or refusal to do this often indicates a lack of security and ability to defend one's own position thoroughly and biblically.

[@cseay50]

As a proponent of the doctrine of election, predestination or the absolute sovereignty of God, I respect Leighton’s opinion and courage to follow his convictions. When your truly standing up for something you believe it should cost you something. However, once he got past the touchy feely part of why he left Calvinism, I heard nothing that led me to believe a God, who sits outside the time continuum, is not the one that, as I believe Scripture clearly states, has predetermined (predestined) those who will spend eternity with Him. It’s not amazing that God chooses some and not others, what’s amazing is that He chooses any of us. Lest we forget, Scripture teaches that through election God shows grace & mercy to those that are born dead in their sin & are literally at enmity (actively opposed or hostile towards) with Him. What right should any us have to expect a Holy Perfect God to receive us if not by “grace?” And if God owes this grace to everyone then it’s not grace because, by definition, grace is never obligatory. If man is born in the spiritual condition of being dead in His trespasses and sin (which requires a rebirth- Born Again), as the Bible teaches, and actively opposed & hostile towards God, how in this condition does he have the ability to reach out to a holy God? Are people that reach out to God, using this line of reasoning, just spiritually more intuitive then the non-saved? How does someone that is in complete bondage to the flesh and dead in their trespasses and sin acquiesce their fallen nature and will to a perfectly holy God? If your dead in your trespasses & sin your spirit is no longer in union with Gods spirit, which means your spiritually dead. For the day you eat of this tree you shall surely die. We are all born sons/daughters of Adam, spiritually dead in our trespasses & sin. Spiritual rebirth refers to the new life a person finds when he or she becomes a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. This concept is also referred to as “salvation,” “regeneration,” or being “born again.” Before spiritual rebirth, all humans are slaves to sin (John 8:34) and spiritually dead in their trespasses (Colossians 2:13). When Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden, they brought sin and death into the world. Every one of their descendants is cursed with a sin nature-a desire to live contrary to God’s will. As we are all descendants of Adam and Eve, we all live under the same curse (Romans 3:23) and deserve death as punishment (6:23). To save us from the curse, Christ Jesus came from heaven to live on earth as the perfect God-man and die a painful death on a cross, taking upon Himself the punishment we all deserve. He then conquered death by rising from the grave three days later. After His ascension back to heaven, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to live in all who put their faith in Him. The entrance of the Holy Spirit into a soul is what brings about the spiritual rebirth of that person.

[@apo.7898]

Has he chosen you?

[@mariodayao3104]

Calvin is simply not Jesus Christ nor the Holy Spirit Thank you sir God bless you, your family and your ministry🫶👍🙏🏼👏🏼👌

[@albertolucea-jt6dr]

Dr. Flowers thank you very much for enlightening me regarding human freewill as against Calvinist Doctrine of Grace "TULIP." A doctorate degree with a high sense of humility and open-mindedness to objectively and examine both sides of an issue like the case at hand is truly blessed. May the good Lord be upon you more. - Sir Dr. Flowers a blessed greeting from the Philippine Islands.

[@waihong9049]

Dr. Leighton Flowers, thank you for your ministries. I am a follower of Christ from Malaysia. Your teachings have stopped me from falling deeper into the reformed trap. Almost two years ago, I was led to say the sinner’s prayer in a Pentecostal church that didn’t teach the whole counsel of God. After staying in the church for a year, I did not grow in the Word and believed the word-of-faith teaching and prosperity gospel. I was led astray and committed greater sins. At the end, I left the church, holding onto the little true faith I got from my own reading of the Bible. Since then, I thought I had to catch up on the Word of God, I committed myself to reformed theology and spent another year in false teachings! During the year, I listened to the teachings of prominent reformed teachers, preachers from Asia, and also persons like RC Sproul and John piper. Since then, I put on the “reformed spectacles” to read my Bible and did not take them off! I became proud thinking always I am the ‘elect’, and my unbelieving family members are not, I am better because I am the only ‘chosen’ one, and they are not loved by God. Thank God He delivered me from that trap! I am never returning to those false teachings again! Thank you for deciding to teach such discernment between Calvinism and the Bible. I have ordered your book “The Potter’s Promise” from a christian bookstore located here in Malaysia, thank God they have it, and it’s on the way! I am looking forward to God leading me deeper into His Truth on this path I’m now on. Praise be to God!

[@wicomms]

What church do you go to now?

[@santanasquared8035]

As a Calvinist, I’ve enjoyed these videos. I believe this “debate” will go on as long as there are Christians. It isn’t bad, and I’m not on board with those calvinists that say “you HAVE to believe this way to be saved.” I always tell people, it’s not so much important how God saves, but rather, that He saves. This should not cause division, but only friendly, civilized sharpening of the brethren.

[@nathanprophet9393]

Amen and thank you again for your teaching. The leadership of my church is moving away from a neutral viewpoint on soteriologically toward the calvanistc position. Many of the membership are not Calvanists. I fear a potential church split or scattering as people slowly leave. I know I can't support this change. If they succeed, I'll be leaving myself. It is difficult and through much prayer I seek God's guidance. Your teachings are helping affirm what I have, years ago, come to believe. Thank you again.

[@mr.e1220]

When i was a 5 point Calvinist, i made every attempt to prove someone was in a false Arminian gospel or debating about election and ESPECIALLY limited atonement.

[@robanddawnramcharan6408]

Serious question: Why is it so important to Calvinists that everybody else endorse Calvinism?

[@mr.e1220]

@@robanddawnramcharan6408 because they are a cult mentality. Anytime you have US vs THEM, man's carnal nature and emotions do the same things. Judging others lost who don't agree. They also become like the God they believe in. Hating most of the world EXCEPT his little chosen flock. They are in a cult. Corruption in one of it's many forms. Indoctrination is a hell of a drug!

[@crabring]

@@robanddawnramcharan6408 is it? Seems equally important to people to point out that Calvinists are wrong. Seems like either one is beneficial if it makes the person love and follow God better.

[@robanddawnramcharan6408]

@@crabring Maybe so. But beware the unacceptable face of Matthew 7:23.

[@crabring]

@@robanddawnramcharan6408yeah, seems equally true to anyone...??

[@hopemissions777]

Thank you so much Dr. L. Flowers. Thank you for the enlightenment through God's Word. May the Lord Jesus conrinue to bless your ministry. I am a pastor from the Philippines listened to your sharing. Thank you again.

[@webbangel2054]

In natural life there has to be the shedding of blood (menses) before physical life is POSSIBLE, but human life doesn’t ACTUALLY begin until a certain act of human will takes place and then God takes over creating a life in the womb. In the same way, I believe, Christ’s shed blood makes spiritual life POSSIBLE (born again) but it takes an act of our will (faith, belief) to accept this gift from God (grace) and then He applies it to our life so that we receive the forgiveness of our sins and now begin our new ETERNAL life which can never be taken away from us because HE is able! In the garden of Eden God made it POSSIBLE for us to walk away from Him and we ACTUALLY did that of our own freewill that he gave us. Thank God that He is loving, merciful and just and had a plan already PREDESTINED to rescue us from ourselves and made it possible for us to stand in His holy presence again! John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that WHOEVER believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Notice in this verse how God makes the first move, we have to respond to what He has provided and He finishes it and seals the deal! He is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and ending of ALL things even our salvation, but we have our role also.

[@rpavich]

If that's what you think then you need to read your bible more carefully. You'd be disagreeing the writers of scripture and of course the author; God.

[@missthunderstormable]

Amen brother! Very good! I was always cautious about Calvinism. Maybe it has to do with my background of an ex Roman Catholic that I could never subscribe to such teaching. But I do appreciate a few smart folks who are Calvinists such as Richard Bennett, very intelligent and educated man especially on the topic of the Roman Catholic church, as well as Dr.James White who no doubt can debate anyone out there and win. I also like listening to MacArthur and Sproul on certain topics. But me in contrast to you was wondering how can intelligent men like these espouse such wrong doctrine. Some verses in the Bible they like to stress, seemingly support Calvinistic view, but the Bible overall does not support it, and it is totally unacceptable and not in accordance with the God we get to know from the pages of the Bible. It makes no sense to me. 5 point Calvinism cannot possibly be a biblical doctrine. I know some have softened it a bit but the core teaching is the same for all Calvinists. Our God is a loving God and He created us with free will, we have a choice. The fact that we choose to accept His grace is no reason for boasting and Paul makes sure to let us know it is not meritorious in Ephesians 2,8, we cannot boast about accepting his grace and believing His gospel, because it is GOD WHO SAVES US.

[@52RGD]

missthunderstormable, There are numerous intelligent people who are wrong in their belief about God... There are many brilliant atheist that do not believe in God....God usually choose the simple but kind hearted and lowly people... True, Calvinism is NOT a True Biblical doctrine because Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies......

[@jesussaves4634]

@@52RGD 100% I like to listen to Ben Shapiro now and again debate on different topics as he is very sharp and intelligent, at the same time he doesn't believe the gospel.

[@marcyoverby3120]

@@52RGD well said..

[@paulklenknyc]

I appreciate your taking responsibility for your errors. However, people misled you. I think that’s important to know that’s usually where it begins. People don’t just come up with TULIP Calvinism out of thin air. Glad you left! You’ve been a blessing to me!

[@douglaspinsak1246]

I don't know why anybody would call themselves a "Calvinist" or an "Arminian"...we are all CHRISTIANS. If you agree with what Calvin taught, well, okay...that's nice. I read one of Don Stewarts books and I agreed with it...I'm not a "Stewartist" lol. Just seems weird to me.

[@JQHNDi]

The reason for "slapping on" name tags is purely for ease of identifying your soteriological doctrine. My soteriology aligns with calvinism, so instead of saying my doctrine is of a monergistic salvation and my ordo salutis goes through this list. I simply say Im a calvinist. The same could be said for arminians with their understanding of these things. Among mature believers within both camps it is well assumed that we all believe in "sola fide" faith alone, and within that unity we may discuss a difference in perspective on salvation :)

[@douglaspinsak1246]

You're not related to Dale Dominy are you?

[@JQHNDi]

I am not.

[@nickcage3703]

That’s why most public figures like RC Sproul and John MacArthur use the term “reformed”

[@Matthew24.4]

One is saved or unsaved. Matthew 7 tells us that “many” people that identify as a Christian will be rejected by Jesus and not enter into heaven. What matters first and foremost is believing the right gospel. Everything else is secondary.

[@MyMy-tv7fd]

in fact CS Lewis explicitly explained in print that he was not a Calvinist and that Calvin was a better theologian than later 'Calvinists'

[@sweynforkbeardtraindude]

2:32, that is Calvinism in a nutshell! I was a diehard, Reformed Presbyterian(OPC, PCA) Calvinist for 57 of my 63 years.

[@auntpurl5325]

Interesting. I am not a Calvinist but have friends who are. I have no desire to convert them, but I struggle to understand their interpretation of salvation. This is a helpful perspective. I've also never considered the idea that God's sovereignty actually had a beginning because the attribute requires something to be sovereign over (all of creation). Never thought about that. Thanks. My husband felt the same way as you after encountering the biblical doctrines about baptism. He struggled for years before finally abandoning the Baptist doctrine on baptism. We are not connected to a denomination anymore. Just plain old Christians who do our best to understand the Scriptures with the hope that God has mercy for our unintentional errors and limited understanding. God bless.

[@josephthomasmusic]

As an non-Calvinist, I am thankful for my Calvinist brothers and sisters, because they do help their brothers and sisters in Christ in one area which is living with confidence and conviction. A lot of people claim to be Christians but do not live boldly by scripture or boldly by example of the person of Christ. I meet a lot more people who are Calvinists that do so with such a high level of confidence. However, I also often times see that confidence in the person of Christ be conflated with overconfidence in their Calvinistic interpretation of scripture, that it becomes arrogance to the point of almost acting like a Pharisee. Not wanting to have their denominational views challenged or questioned, not stopping and and questioning their behavior and how they engage with other Christians in debates on soteriology, refusal to directly answer leading questions that helped them to make honest answers about where they stand in their viewpoint, and possibly humbling themselves to the point of praying to God to help them hold more humility. This is most certainly not true across the board with all Calvinists but it is a stereotype that most non-calvinists have about Calvinists in general. In fact this type of behavior that I see in my calvinist brothers and sisters is often part of what leads so many people away from the faith. Most people I hear who turn away from the faith were either brought up in a Catholic or calvinist background. Heck, my father is a calvinist and his particular beliefs and his behavior is precisely what has brought two of my family members away from the faith. So to my calvinist brothers and sisters who are reading this, I mean this when I say that your confidence can be a problem, and a very serious one at that. I beg and I plead with my calvinist brothers and sisters, to practice more humility and pray to God to soften your hearts more when talking with your brothers and sisters about soteriological views. We are all family here. If someone questions Calvinism they are not persecuting you nor are they speaking out against the person of Jesus Christ. They are challenging your beliefs and your behavior. Please learn the difference between the two. We are challenging your soteriological views because we love you and we want to help you be as best of an example of Christ as much as you want to help us in that same area.

[@edvogt4039]

Former Calvinist here. Good stuff.

[@davemitchell116]

Ditto and ditto.

[@HeyWiseGuy]

@Johan Strydom Dave, Jaap, and I left Calvinism because we found it not to be true to according to the Scriptures. That's the only reason people abandon it.

[@bookemchristy4706]

Me too, little by little, scared to death though. It's why I'm creeping around in secret from friends and church family :/ I keep doubting my salvation and most Calvinist will say it's because I wasn't of the fold anyways :(

[@charlesmartinjr3971]

@@bookemchristy4706 I have experienced similar. I had several very good friends in my church who were in positions of leadership. They were grooming me to become a leader, but as soon as I started questioning Calvinist doctrine, they cut me out. Then I started getting the passive-aggressive, "You know, often times people who aren't saved don't even know it" comments. Paul says, "If we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead, we will be saved." Jesus IS Lord, and He is risen! But . . . it appears as if you have to define these words "correctly": "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is completely Sovereign and chooses whom He will save, and you believe that God raised Him from the dead, then you are most likely chosen, but probably won't find out until you've died." It sounds a lot like the Watchtower Society to me. . . . .

[@J_a_s_o_n]

@@charlesmartinjr3971 Calvinism is a CULT

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

All five points of Calvinism are wrong. And so are their salvation doctrines which they based them upon. It is a train wreck of all train wrecks.

[@LivingInCentralFlorida]

So if you had 2 kids would you purposely send one straight to hell and they get no choice?!?

[@DonaldDouglasJr]

One of my biggest problems with Calvinists is the limited atonement. God didn't create any individual that didn't have a chance to accept Christ. They're saying God made a man just to have him burn in hell.

[@maxstrange7606]

If Jesus paid for sin, then why would an unbeliever have to pay for it again in hell? Does God demand double payment for a single sin? Where do you find anywhere in the Old Testament God demanded two payments for sin? Jesus died for a people on the Cross, which the Bible actually says, "He secured an eternal redemption by His blood" (Hebrews 9:12), then that means His blood has SECURED redemption. A redeemed people secured therefore making the cross an ACTUAL victory and not a POTENTIAL victory. Either Jesus died for SOME (Limited or Particular) or you believe Jesus died for ALL (Universalism). If Jesus died for ALL, why would the Father have Jesus pay for the sin in full and then have an unbeliever in hell pay for it as well? Why 2 payments?

[@DavidMacLeod-j1i]

@@maxstrange7606 Well said. The problem with Arminians (and similar) is that they believe that Jesus did in fact die for ALL but his death was not in and of itself sufficient for redemption, which is why each would-be believer must accept his offer of salvation. It's such a grotesque caricature of the gospel: Jesus needs my help to save me.

[@tracykarol]

I left Catholicism and was born again. It was hard to leave a system you're raised in.

[@tracykarol]

God hates sin. So why would He predestine some for that purpose?

[@douglasattaway6330]

I never really felt comfortable with Calvinism because the Bible again and again exhorts us to choose. Denying free will in turn denies a major theme found in scripture. Moses, Joshua, and the prophets exhorted Israel again and again to choose to serve God. Even so I never felt comfortable with the Armenian position either. Mike Winger has put out some excellent discussions of Calvinist vs. Armenian theology and he, too, disagreed with both positions. My personal view is that predestination and free will are not incompatible. God gives us the ability to choose freely, but at the same time he knows the future, so he knows what our choices will be. The Bible clearly teaches that God is outside our concept of time, but I think we have a hard time comprehending the implications of this.

[@sheilasmith7779]

After Adam and Eve's expulsion from Eden, Eve gave birth to Cain and Abel. How can a calvinist explain the choice of Cain, and the different choice of Abel?

[@MySardarji]

I come from a CRC background. I joined YWAM in my early 20s. It was there that I was confronted with other perspectives. I will say this: I am thankful for my background because so many other Christians have little Biblical foundation. But, I know that there are many perspectives and we spend too much time arguing about it and less time loving others as we love ourselves. We now see in a mirror dimly. Let us major on the majors and minor on the minors. If we can agree that Christ came to save us from sin and all who believe in Him will be saved, then that is a major. Some of the other things distract us from what is really important. I am now part of a mission supported by many churches including one large one that is Calvinist.

[@daniellogue3702]

If we are predestined, then why are we to share the gospel and make disciples of nations??? What good is faith if we are predestined? Who needs grace if you're predestined?

[@douglashellmich3978]

We need grace even if we are predestined because it is only by God's grace that he chose us. The question should not be "why did God save some people and not others?" The question ought to be "why did God save anyone?" As for faith God not only gives us the ability to have faith but gives us that same faith

[@tylerpedersen9836]

God has ordained the means by which He will save His elect. The primary means by which He saves His people is the preaching of the Gospel. Therefore, we should preach. No one, this side of Heaven, knows the identity of the elect. Therefore, we should preach/share the gospel indiscriminately in obedience to God's command.

[@theashianz3562]

@@tylerpedersen9836 then answer this question.. If God pre destined and pre ordained everything.. Then how come we fell short from God?. Did He pre destined or pre ordained that Adam and Eve will eat the fruit of the knowledge of Good and evil? You cant answer that.. because R.C sprould also admitted he cant answer that question.

[@daviebluff]

Thank you for this thoughtful and reasonable response to Calvinism. I pray God will open the hearts and minds of all who hear it, both believer and unbeliever alike.

[@MansterBear]

"I pray God will open the hearts and minds of all who hear it" But what about their "free will"?

[@daviebluff]

​@@MansterBear "Opening a person's heart" simply implies that a person will need some assistance to overcome their prejudices and presumptions. Whether or not they receive it and respond to it is their choice. ;-)

[@pattytreadway2934]

My upbringing was religious. I denied religion for 30 years or better as a result, hypocrites. Today I am a new creature in my savior and love Jesus Christ. Jesus called out these religious people, stirred up the Pharisee’s. “Brood of vipers”-John B. Jesus changed everything for me- my eyes and ears can here and see! A new creature desires to please Jesus not people or their theology. After meeting and learning about Calvinism. I had questions and was highly disturbed initially talking with this type of crazy person but then I wanted to learn more about this, to be equipped and able to discern this with the Holy Spirit. I am better off in my faith from learning more and other theology. I did not know there was this division in the church but the one Paul taught. My experience, Calvinism among others (Catholic are another) are riddled with pride, stunted spiritual growth. Immaturity, lacking wisdom and counsel from the Holy Spirit. Saddens the Lords heart truly. The work of evil ultimately, causing confusion here. I hope we all question anyone who is angered about preaching the gospel of Christ Jesus with such Arrogance as the Calvinist. I ask the Calvinist this. Why would Jesus asks we forgive, love our enemies, turn our cheek, from the children of Satan? Why are we called to be still, persevere, hope, believe, keep faith, trust, forgive, love, seek, repent, humble ourselves, praise, gather together ect. if this has been predestined and ordained to a few? I have yet to read of Gods magical wand. Why is God asking anything from a depraved thing if he’s Sovereign? If -God made man from dirt, breathed His Life into man, aren’t we part of God? Lucifer, in all his splendor is jealous of this, the love God has in man. After the fall, Adam still heard and answered God in the garden. Gen 2:7, 3:8-10 How was Adam still able to hear God and answer him? Is not Christianity a relationship with Jesus, a union? We are lost but can be found? He knocks and asks us to open this door? Do we think God couldn’t find Adam in hiding? Do we read in scripture God will judge us in our church theology and doctrine for salvation? Does Paul warn about such doctrines other than what he taught? Isn’t that the point of his letters to the churches, to not stray from the gospel? Doesn’t Paul address the church who is divided and on who we can judge? (1 Corinthians 5:12.) This is exactly what we read, and are warned of , to call out the devil’s snare among us. Rev 3:15-20. Great article, spot on in your experience as it has sadly been my own. I appreciate your knowledge and work in this Religious evil spirit. I will continue to learn how to diffuse these contentious discussions. I will continue to pray for all whom are lost. I hope to better learn the non scriptural explanations they give on their behalf. I believe this is crucial to understanding and knowing the appropriate responses.

[@PresidentChristopher]

Calvinism is like a heavy weight on the heart. Like a massively gargantuan ball and chain dragging the heart down into gloom. A GOD would could save everybody, but chooses not to, but chooses to allow 3/4'ths the creation to burn in eternity so that we might all glorify GOD for His infinite wrath demonstrated on poor lost souls. Is such a God good? We may say He is good in that GOOD MUST PUNISH EVIL, and that we are all evil, and deserve hell, and that it is sheer Grace and a privilege to BE CHOSEN TO BE SAVED, but... Something seems askew when we read GOD IS LOVE. Calvinists say God loves Himself - Father, Son, and Spirit - ONLY. His love for us proceeds out of His love for Himself. He love Himself, and glorifies Himself by the way He creates some to be saved, and the rest to be damned. That He loves those IN CHRIST, for CHrist's sake, not at all for our sake. Scripture says God "will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the Truth." HE DESIRES ALL TO be saved, but, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for this to happen with free will distributed among so many billions. AND God's STANDARD to be saved is FAITH, and self-denial in favor of GOD. (Like when Jesus said IT IS IMPOSSIBLE, but that OFFENCES WILL COME.) I believe, if it were possible, for there have been a way to save EVERYONE, even with free will distributed to all, and with all meeting God's requirements of self-denial to come to Him, GOD WOULD HAVE DONE SO!!! GOD IS LOVE! Even as, Scripture says, if there had been a law which could have provided Salvation, then Salvation should have come by the Law.