I Wasted 800 Hours Painting, Because of Golden Demon

References and resources you should check:
👉 My personal list of some of the underappreciated entries:
AC Miniatures: www.instagram....
CHK Minis: www.instagram....
Arnau Lazaro: www.instagram....
APS Minipainting: / da_tyikn8wh
Rich Gray: / dawo3rutnga
👉Congratulations to the winners!
AOS Unit:
1st place: / jonathandevosart
2nd place: / pat_sancho
3rd place: / waschthomas
40k Large and Vehicles:
1st place: / patronpaint
2nd place: / curro_design
3rd place: / the_lateman
Trovarion's stream:
/ 2271649946
Cult of Paint folks talk about some of the unrecognized entries at the GD:
www.youtube.co...
GitGud talking about their GD experience:
• GitGud Painting Podcas...
Vince Venturella talks about why he doesn't enjoy the Golden Demon:
• Thoughts on Golden Dem...
/ zumikit0
/ zumikit0
/ zumikito_miniatures

[@Zumikito]

if you wonder where I've been, this explains it. More content coming up!

[@TheWhiteCometOfAkagi]

Have literally been stalking your KZbin waiting for vids, thinking must be painting for golden demon.

[@CPyJIb]

) But to be serious I know for sure how much time and effort it took to finish those models. They are absolutely gorgeous and as you see a lot of top tier artists agree with this opinion. The world is unfair, but at least they do not destroy entries after competition )

[@KrishnaBheemul]

You needed an ai backdrop, like Neil. Oh wait..

[@ariellouit8523]

Man, you should at least make a mini post on KZbin to make us know you are still alive! I was actually worried you wouldn't come back. Happy to see your incredible entries. F Golden Demon😂

[@ElpredatorGYRO]

Go to Monte San Savino if you want to confront with the best in the world. On another note, this is how an art competition works: subjectivity of the judges. You have reached the beard level to gain peace in you heart.

[@marcmarti7635]

I did a lot of music competitions. Everytime the judge or judges gave me a written feedback. This helped me a lot to understand where they set the focus and where to improve. I think this is a must for a competition.

[@Astronometric]

In the case of GD I understand why they don't do it. There are too many entries and not enough time during the event to give feedbacks. The problem is in the jury not being made by the painting team but from regular employs.

[@Campaigner82]

@@AstronometricWhat..? I thought there were atleast a few painters in the jury

[@marcmarti7635]

@@Astronometric thank you for explainig. I get the problem with to many models. But getting judget by non painter is odd....

[@Astronometric]

@@Campaigner82 the previous golden demon only had regular employes in the jury. In this one the jury was made by two employees and one single painter because a lot of people rightfully complained. I personally think that all member of the jury should be part of painting or sculpting teams. Also, having more than a single jury so they could cover more entries without rushing would be a good idea (at least for the early selections).

[@ravager990]

Feedback might trigger some but it would be helpful to have an opt-in/out program where you can say you want feedback or not. Personally I think the judges just didn't like the colors some people used and based it also around that. Judging can never be not biased in a way... that's why you need multiple judges as this will even the bias out. I hope you Zumikito will keep participating as he is doing literal art.

[@KiwiSpartan01]

As siege studios said, never enter a painting competition to win. Enter to push yourself and your painting skills

[@BarokaiRein]

Also, maybe enter something like Monte San Savino for that. Golden demon really isn't a great painting competition, because it's a marketing event.

[@KiwiSpartan01]

​@@BarokaiRein agreed

[@jayhub24]

great advice and focus

[@thedoctor1471]

As Zum' said tho, he doesn't need validation. His skills are top notch and better than most of us can dream to achieve. But at some point, if you are in a competition and you aren't even judged; you have to wonder why the fuck you participate at all. Like, I get not receiving a slayer sword for that squad. But pretending it's not even "a notable entry" is laughable. It means a judge looked at those nurgly bois and said "yeah, casual painting for a sunday, not bad, that dude probably started painting last week or smth" ?

[@zirrian]

@@thedoctor1471 but if he doesn't need validation, why did he whine for ten minutes that he needs validation?

[@clemo85]

Wasted? No way! That's a fantastic piece!

[@IMIatix]

Yeah but 800 hours is ridiculous😂

[@Serafiniert]

I love Vince Venturellas perspective on this. The only trophy that means something in miniature painting competitions, is the piece you created. Because that is a one-off in the world, while there are hundreds of golden demon medals. Just a nice way of putting it into perspective.

[@Mercenario_De_Cain]

@@IMIatix That shows his dedication and perfectionism. It would be "ridiculous" to see me spending all that time painting a piece of shit.🤣🤣🤣

[@Ootori_sama]

@@Serafiniert Agreed. Might be time for this guy to take a step back and start painting in a way that fulfills him instead of painting for outside validation/recognition.

[@GodDamnFireStick]

This was such a brutal watch from so many angles. Its such a clear grievance post, and despite how many times it's said that this isn't about the loss, it's very clearly about the loss. Looking at this as "three levels lower," claiming that maybe GW didn't like you, or that its objective that you didn't get a trophy is way off the mark. I think it might be a good idea to take a bit and think about why you paint. To sit there and say "The judging is clearly wrong because I didn't win" is just brutal man.

[@yesyesyesyes1600]

But he may ask why he didn't pass the next stage right? Since he has done it before he would like to know why he didn't this time.

[@dosmatrix4470]

Your painting skills are outstanding that's not an issue at all. But I tend to agree with others with regard to the basing overall concept. It just lacks action and coherency the figure on the left,looking from the front, is out of place with regard to its tone compared to the other models. The base lacks interest regardless of how well it's painted. It does appear that the GD judges are drawn to more movement and concept,rightly or wrongly,in their selections. In my opinion though your actual painting is superior in execution and technique. Quick edit what about a few mushrooms of various sizes,of a natural mushroom colour with orange undersides, and a bunch of nurglings on and around the mushrooms hiding and frolicking.

[@karkof]

It is funny seeing zero interaction from Zumikito on any comment that even touches on why his entry wasn't picked.

[@DurinDaemonenmetzler]

Guys, Zumikito is not complaining that his work didn't win, but that it was almost completely ignored and not recognised at all. And it's clear that he's absolutely right!

[@tokoloshgolem]

The trouble with competitions is that miniature painting is an art, not a horse race. Consequently, the idea of gold silver and bronze is ridiculous.

[@tehMaev]

indeed wise words. But GW turned from a friendly fantasy/scifi adventure bringing people together in the universe into a brutal competitive, consumer intensive scene in its enterity.

[@ChaoticMartian]

Skill issue.

[@PartisanGamerDE]

@@tehMaev its the painters themselves who adopted that mindset. Otherwise they would just congratulate whoever won a golden demon and then go have a beer and snack together and move on. Their attitude towards the painting competiton is what makes it brutally competitive.

[@BarokaiRein]

Gold, silver and bronze makes sense, just not in the way GW does it. Most painting competitions have those three, but there is no winner. If your piece is good enough to get gold, it gets gold. There can be ten guys in one category to get gold, if there are enough entries of that level. Best in Show should be the only reward where you need to 'beat other entries' to win it.

[@agollumcalledgandalf]

So is the idea of "waaah I can't believe I'm three levels worse than that guy 👶"

[@harrisonomalley3962]

This piece is painted immaculately on a technical scale, however, it is not pretty to look at, the colors feel odd together and the piece tells us no story. The skin feels almost mettalic in quality. It feels like these 3 are stood under studio lights and are posing for a photoshoot. Thats you're problem right there. Technically fantastic yes, it just fails in the other areas.

[@amorbavian]

Point is it still should have made it to the final step.

[@CmdrPinkiePie]

@@amorbavianNo. The first commenter is right, it’s technically a great piece, but there’s more to art than technique.

[@cimpit5395]

​​@@CmdrPinkiePieI dont think so. The way he did the basing and the miniatures itself contrasts and makes the models stay out more. I think that this is more "art" then doing a miniature and basing with similar colors and the mini just blends in and dissapears in the basing. For myself, I can say that I'm not satisfied with this year's Golden Demon.

[@AK-tl2nm]

Spot on. Zumikito has focused too much on technical execution opposed to planning a well thought out piece.

[@Fixrr9]

Overall, the piece looks too "clean" for Nurgle units. The weapons look brand-new shiny rather than rusted (like the pitting would suggest) and grimy. The maggots in the bottom-left blight king are shaded nicely but should be coated in vicera or some other funk, but instead they all look uniformly clean. Everything just kinda looks brand new/well taken care of in the scene rather than aged and worn.

[@DaRedWunzGoFasta]

I'm sorry, but I do not agree with you at all. I have never entered or won a Golden Demon, but I have entered and won literally dozens of scale modeling contests, as well as judged them, and been printed in numerous magazines, including White Dwarf, so please just take a moment to listen. The number of hours you put into a piece has no bearing on it's ability to place or win a competition. Expecting to be commended or place based solely on the amount of time spent is frankly absurd. I can spend 800 hours working on my lawn, and that doesn't mean I'm going to win "best landscaping". Judges are looking for two primary things in all painting competitions - technical ability and overall impact. That's it. Your pieces simply have way too much technical effort, with no overall cohesiveness or "making sense". I've seen this same complaint about the Tau battlesuit with 70 million NMM reflections on it, and it too fails this test. You have to stand back from the entry and look at the overall piece and ask, "does this look right?" You have reflections in your rocks, light sources that are at opposition to each other, and an overabundance of technical details that clash with each other, making the models read "busy". Ninjon has actually done a few excellent videos about this overall cohesiveness on his GD entries (and winners). Seriously man, take a breath, and then step back and really look at the winners overall cohesive looks versus yours. The judges were not idiots and did no favoritism, you simply didn't win. Making a hit piece on the judges makes you look bad, and really sours the accomplishments of everyone who did win. Jumping into an echo chamber about it will not help you, either. I hope you take this response to heart because you are a good person and a great painter and you have the ability to do really well if you can get out of your own head.

[@svelle37]

Thank you.

[@reno239]

Old Big mek’s wisdom

[@DOCDOCFLAMINGOS]

Yep Yep... This right here 1000%👆

[@michaeltrivette1728]

Purple base looks shit to me. I couldn’t in good conscience vote for that piece over the others. Take the mini and put on a “better” looking base and you’d prolly have won. Sorry Just my opinion.

[@Colour_Theft]

This comment right here !

[@brumbz513]

You go to great lengths to stress these 'levels' as a means to justify the bad decision (which I think it was, you have my sympathy), but they are an unqualified variable in quantity so it's hard to really put value against them. Stating my work is considered 3 times lower in levels sounds terrible, but what are the amount of entries in each level? If it's Commended = 3, Finalist = 5, Notable = 10, All Entries = 1000, and you got Notable then you are in the top 1% of all entries, and margin for the next level is an absolutely tiny tiny increase in quality. Are you able to qualify the amount of entries above you rather than 'levels'? Genuinely interested, and again my sympathies, keep up the great work I do love your content.

[@ethanuhlig5552]

I'm not sure they provide data on exact numbers but it's definitely way more than what you're thinking by at least an order of magnitude. Notable is the 'first cut' phase and pretty much anyone who puts in a piece that looks like it's of the quality expected of GD is supposed to get one. Finalist (the step above) is also much more than 1% from what I can tell.

[@theandf]

Agreed, I think saying "3 times worse" is nonsense. Art is not measured in levels. A judging competition must, by design, assign tiers, but this doesn't mean someone not on any tier is a discrete amount of "worse". You could say they should give feedback to each entry explaining why they did/didn't qualify for a specific tier, but that's both a tremendous amount of work and also a surefire way to attract a different kind of controversy anyway.

[@RotterdamWhiteScars]

I can answer the levels. Ive entered in 5 categories this year and taken notes on Diorama for example (less entries so I could count them XD) Total entries: 73 Notable: 12 (top 35%) Finalist: 8 (top 18%) Commended: 5 (top 7%) This could lead to a rough guideline. Other categories might have more or less.

[@eewweeppkk]

​@@theandfThe vast majority of judging competitions do not assign tiers. Most either have an all-or-nothing or podium approach, or they have a direct score. The main point of the video was to criticize the tier aspect because it certainly is not the norm for judged competitions - at the very least, it isn't the norm for the tiers to be known to the competitors and is typically just a way to make the judging process more organized behind the scenes.

[@MoonStarBoardGames]

gw only added these "levels" to make painters feel better about the compeition. before this guy discovered he could making money videotaping himself painting figures, golden deamon had three awards - gold, silver and bronze - and you were lucky if someone bought the white dwarf to see your success.

[@Jawsofhana]

You painted nurgle too clean. It's good technical painting, but I agree with the judges here. I believe that if you had added some grime, rust and weathering, it would have placed higher.

[@DMEdison-yl2rp]

Rank amateur here, but my opinion is it's too clean. The cloth looks like new, the armour gleams, the skin looks freshly bathed. No blood, slime or puss spilling, no stains, no inflammation, hardly any rust. Every detail is perfect, but in complete isolation from the rest. The style and the subject don't match.

[@mastodonseven]

Robotic

[@sethhavens1574]

the time you have put in is your own choice, it doesn't entitle you to a win and you are hardly alone!

[@shadowkras]

Something you didnt consider is how the miniatures are presented. The 2 out of the 3 winners clearly are not just standing there on their base, but shows something interesting and eye-catching.

[@Redjedi6]

I noticed this also. The amount of detail put into the bases is insane on the 2 winners, and not to be negative but the purple base doesnt seem it had as much attention put to it in comparison.

[@sora63]

the winning entries were also posed in a more cinematic story telling way, where his miniatures were just standing there on a purple ground

[@itsalwayssunnyonterra]

@@Redjedi6that’s fair! but to not even get a commended or pin is quite shocking…

[@doodoo2065]

I disagree. Of the three figures shown at 3:22 , the only one that seems to be outstanding in composition is the one at the left. The one at the middle is very similar to Zumikito's entry composition-wise, while the one at the right just has more focus on the actual figure altogether. Also, the purple ground is a good idea when you are working with figures that have green as one of their colours, the thing is his entry wasnt perfect in that regard, but neither were most of the entries above. And anyways, his point was that his entry may be worse, but not being even considered up there is insulting

[@shadowkras]

@@doodoo2065 The one in the middle is exactly the least eye-catching one. Still, it shows them in a way that is more natural/photographic than just models standing on their base.

[@PaTrickRTreat]

I think a lot of these painters are accustomed to winning competitions and it comes as a shock when other people win

[@BittermanAndy]

Yup. There's literally hundreds of painters on KZbin, thousands more painting professionally. They're all way better than the average Joe, but they can't all win. So, many of them whinge about it.

[@jasoninthehood9726]

@@BittermanAndyGD judges were already talking about giving out cheese to everyone who didn’t win last year so they could have something to enjoy with their whine. Surprised they didn’t do it this year.

[@midnight._media]

The base is what did it for sure. It’s not that they don’t like you, or how the miniatures were painted or even the composition. The base looking almost a solid purple is a huge kick in your own shins. Can almost guarantee that’s the reason behind not moving up to at least finalist.

[@beefmeatloaf]

Agreed It's not that the base wasn't painted its just that it was all such a similar colour (to attract colour to the minis ) that it looks flat and the painting of it is not as visible - it may have done better if the base was more varied in its painting instead of all just a very close shade of purple Still gives them no right to just overlook it entirely

[@DKnight768]

The piece might have a lot of work put into it, but honestly the winners are more interesting and fun to look at, their final result is more than the sum of its parts. Obviously this mini is amazing but at this level every mistake is costly, the winners have an edge in composition, storytelling, overall impact and creativity, and I agree with the judges. You see the lizards or the pile of squigs and the impact is crazy. It's the kind of minis some random low level hobbyst like me is blown away with, and GW wants to showcase their minis and universe, the smoothness of your blends is secondary as long as it's very good with no mistakes. Bronze might look a bit closer at first glance but when you spend 2 seconds more looking at it, the composition is incredibly good, it's subtle but the way the minis are facing, wow. Zumikito's entry looks a bit bland by comparison, it's all technique but lacks the show factor. For reference my favorite is the old world gold or necromunda gold or bronze, can't decide.

[@Ryccio91]

@@DKnight768 You would be right if his entry would have taken a commended entry or even a finalist pin, but he took nothing. So it's ok to talk about the base, but this doesn't justify the judging decision.

[@StuartKushon]

You were the winner in my eyes. Golden Demon judges are not competent.

[@ingo505]

@@Ryccio91 In the end, the judging is mostly subjective. Maybe the judges just didn't like his work? Imo it's unreasonable to call foul play or bad judging if your piece didn't win, even if you think it should have.

[@Yvash]

The models are painted to the absolute highest standard, which is completely undebatable. I think the reason you didn't place near the top 3 is your basing/composition choice. It's ultimately just three exquisitely painted guys standing on some purple fuzz. There's no story, nothing tying them into the mostly featureless surroundings; no atmosphere or lighting. They deserve more, and I think that's what the judges based their decisions upon.

[@georgehunt6012]

Thats exactly what I thought when I saw it, amazing models but the base altho painted well is very boring with no contrasting aspects to it even. On a different base I think you have a top 3 finish.

[@ravager990]

I think soo too, the models seem to have gotten 100% of the attention and the base looked like a lazy last minute spray and dry brush. A bit of more color variation or a different choice of color for the vegetation would have done wonders. Might have been on the judge's minds that the one who did it just didn't know how to do basing or didn't care which is a bit of a no-no for a diorama. When painting for a contest, you are doing art and if just one area of your art looks to have less effort then the rest it will not be picked

[@JasperMoneyshot]

I think that would make sense if he at least got a commended entry, the fact that he got notable and not even a finalist pin means they never even evaluated it against the other commended entries or the trophy winners. Seems to have been a thing this year where there were numerous entries which I'd say are arguably better than the winners in certain categories, but they didn't even get past the notable stage.

[@scottgozdzialski6478]

That is a BS way to judge something. This mini is at such a high standard it blows all the other out of the water, but there is not enough fancy grass thingies.

[@thrrax]

@@scottgozdzialski6478 Yeah it's supposed to be a "painting" competition, but when they start judging them all based on diorama standards, it's no longer a "painting" competition. Plus, everyone can enter whatever "mini" they want, and that from the start is stupid.

[@Explosivo1118]

Honestly, I think you need to read Richard Grey's post regarding his Eldar mini. He's taking it as a learning opportunity to improve for next year, rather than blaming the judging/judges and disparaging anyone that did win an award. Try and be more humble, just cause you spent 800 hours on it doesn't mean you're owed anything

[@thordron1426]

Except if you read the entire post and his follow up post he questions a lot of things about the judging, just like most people have done this year

[@Explosivo1118]

@@thordron1426 His follow up post that says 'still not sure how I feel about it but ultimately it's irrelevant as it's Games Workshops competition'? I wouldn't say that's asking a lot of questions really

[@thordron1426]

@@Explosivo1118 missed the bit before that chief ‘my model was removed from the bottom shelf and given a pin’ and that’s why he doesn’t know what to feel about it. Pretty clear there’s some thoughts there as he literally states he has some thoughts and might make a video.

[@Explosivo1118]

@@thordron1426 Still not the same as full 15 minute complaint video though is it? Not even close. My point is that Richard came at it from a humble place, he looked inward and used it as an opportunity for improvement rather than just simply moaning about the judges and feeling sorry for himself, that attitude is why he's one of the all time greats. This guy has basically said 'I put 800 hours into my pieces and the only reason I didn't do better is because the judges are crap'. Hell, at one point he legitimately suggested that the judges might have a vendetta against him, it's laughably arrogant

[@mastodonseven]

Richard Grey is on another level to this guy yet can still have less of an ego, pretty impressive.

[@High_Lord_Of_Terra]

You should never enter a copetetion if you can't handle losing.

[@ZzokK]

Sorry to say this but if everyone listen to everyone"s friends there would be 500 golden demons and 100 slayer swords. Sometimes i feel like influencers and famous VIP of the painting world feels entitled to have a demon as soon as they entered. I was there on saturday morning and it was almost like everyone already knew whatever influencer would get gold, whatever VIP painter would win the sword and so on. I think this is mostly due to instagram and populare painters posting their entries ahead of GD and getting thousands of "omg demon winning entry here!!!!" and thats kind of sad if everything was preddicted from the beginning dont you think? . I met a guy there, now a friend, nobody knew him, no fancy insta no famous patreon teacher, won 3 demons and im so happy it happens cause it shows that everyone can win in this competition. No hard feelings though your entries were great.

[@jules9094]

You’ve missed the point of this video

[@lifeinjersey9846]

​@@jules9094He didn't really. He's 100% right about this. Zumikito painted really good and he is right the judging and lack of feedback from golden demon isn't good. But He's being a really bad sore loser about all this. All he keeps talking about is the hundred of hours he spent on the miniatures. Yes its hard work. But spending that much time doesn't guarantee you anything. I mean he mentions all the other competitions he won to justify his ego of I should have won golden demon because I worked on my miniatures for hundreds of hours That being said and I can see other people agree, yes his miniatures are painted great but his bases? Like they're just mediocre. Like the plague marines have purple bases, like thats it? You spend hundreds of hours on the minis but yoy just paint the bases purple?? I get he's upset he lost ajd he's right that the judges don't give feedback which they did but he's being an absolute sore loser. Amount of time spent doesn't mean you get an award and I bet you it was probably the lack of detail or work on the bases which cost him the trophy.

[@Veles343]

​@@lifeinjersey9846 he does say he's a sore loser but the main point here is his model didn't even get the lowest level of recognition. What is an incredibly painted model didn't even get a notable entry card. I've seen way worse looking paint jobs getting finalist pins (when I say worse, they're still amazing, but definitely not as clean and skilled as this one is)

[@lifeinjersey9846]

​@@Veles343again though just because he spent hundreds of hours on a mini doesn't entitle to him to anything. But he feels like it should and him bashing the judges this way detracts from the winners and almost make its sound like they really didn't earn their prizes. Yes the model is painted well, but there were tons of models that were well painted that didn't get anything. You don't see those artists complaining and making KZbin videos bashing the judges do you? No. I mean honestly he legitimately feels that because he spent so much time he was entitled to win. I mean for him to even say oh maybe the judges saw my video and don't like me and were biased? He's coming off incredibly selfish and egotistical.

[@c.robtoz]

​@@lifeinjersey9846 You are still fcking missing the point. It's not only his piece that didn't get a entry. Quite a few other artist didn't get a entry either with the point being that incredible art pieces by multiple artists were simply dismissed by the judges. I suggest you look at some of the finalist pin entrys and you will instantly see why his piece was definitely up to standards. People were just getting dogged randomly and all over the place, that's all

[@musclegeek1991]

honestly, calling your time spent a "waste" because you didn't win is poor sportsmanship.

[@aapopietila4217]

I think its mostly for the title to get more people to see it

[@kyle857]

​@@aapopietila4217 No, because he goes on to be a poor sport for the whole video.

[@aapopietila4217]

@ but he admits it soo

[@eatwhatthemonkeyseat8161]

I think they are just moving away from the over saturated bubble gum colours, and I for one am happy for that.

[@thomaswall2496]

Every year people complain about golden daemon. What I don’t understand is. Why do people keep entering it?

[@DocNoxin1503]

For me it is a lack of dynamic composition. The models are static and lack in "life" being breathed into them with what is absolutely great technique. What is missing is the engaging story or emotive force that art is supposed to evoke. I look at your miniatures and some of the others you show and see great technical pieces I will never be able to replicate. That is all they are though, fantastic technical painting pieces. Many others have commented on the lack of pop that the basing doesn't provide. Their are some weird highlighting choices with the purple that I think muddies the overalll look of the piece as well. These are gorgeous pieces and I hope that the time put into them pushed your skills and was a great growth opportunity. However, the sheer number of times you talk about the time investment and how much "time" you wasted makes this very difficult to listen to or take seriously.

[@Try_Again_Bragg]

I dont need validation but i want it on my CV. Tone deaf.

[@AngryAcolyte]

Having looked at the winning entries, the lack of storytelling in your base is definitely what let the piece down.

[@scannerbarkly]

You wasted 800 hours of painting because you chose to paint with the mindset that the only justification for that time was winning. I normally keep my beak out of the negativity that can be in this hobby, but I am a little surprised at this video. I won't seek to offer my thoughts on the model, you are an infinitely better painter than I will ever be. I will just say that I am seeing more and more KZbinrs getting trapped in this thing of NEEDING to win a Golden Demon in order to feel justified or qualified or whatever the little voice in their head is telling them. I would urge you not to fall into it with them, as I can chart the bitterness trajectory of formerly entertaining and educational KZbinrs that did and I think that's a shame.

[@witeshade]

I think it may be a problem that comes along with being a youtuber - you have that extra pressure to try and get wins for your channel both to get more viewers and improve your income but also due to a desire to try and make your fans proud.

[@kenholmes]

Good to see you back! The pieces look amazing!

[@Jak0vas]

Ugh, the worse side to competitions and inevitable egos. Do it to better yourself, not to win a completely worthless physical representation of an award you were once given, relationships and how you affect other peopl is far more important.

[@Nethezbet]

I had a friend that has 4 Golden Demons. This isn't meant to be a kick in the shins, lol... but he was like "There were all manner of mistakes, things that I KNEW would cost me... but I won anyway." He said it had less to do with the technique and more to do with the concept. Don't get me wrong, he is an amazing painter but his take on how they judge was eye opening. Definitely a "not would you would think" situation, and I would guess that judges have to look for more than simply the raw work put in since they will have so many good pieces to look at. Your models are outstanding, but at that level of competition how does a judge choose?

[@kyle857]

You can still delete this.

[@greenhowze]

I'm sorry dude, but sometimes life gives you lemons.. Your work looks amazing (as always) and you were given a raw deal. Take the hit, pick yourself up, and strike back harder..

[@parks.]

Hey babe, wake up - another miniature painter is losing their crackers about Golden Demon.

[@TheTeccala]

AGAIN ? Don't wake me up every 2 mins...

[@Or_Am_I_Alpharius]

-I spent a lot time painting, I should have placed. -the internet says I should have won but I didn’t. -that person placed but I don’t like their art style so they shouldn’t have won anything. -I’m three levels worse than winning -I got gold at a different, smaller comp so I should have at least gotten bronze at GD. You’re not only a sore loser, you’re selfish for thinking you deserved anything because *_you entered_* GD. It’s gross when people act like this.

[@jaiar12]

Dude that’s not what he saying at all. He’s saying there is a lack of clarity and consistency regarding Golden Demon’s entry and scoring qualifications. These issues can be immensely frustrating for painters who spend upwards of hundreds of hours on a single piece, and the current system doesn’t provide feedback to painters on why they score certain way, which can be insulting. He then explains that he feels that he is in a position to express these concerns as he is demonstrably a talented competitive painter (hence the other awards), and that many other talented painters (including GD winners) validated that his piece was at the very least a strong contender. Given all of this, plus the fact that his previous pieces from when he was a less experienced painter placed significantly higher, he was quite surprised that he did not pass a single level. He says that this scenario is a trend people in the community have noticed (which is true, you can find other painters, include GD winners, talk about very similar concerns), and the lack of feedback and inconsistent awarding means that people are left to question if some pieces are even actually judged. There is also questions if GW unwritten biases (lore accurate, or ‘eavy metal style) impact the judging, if there are other potential factors in play,and that it is unfair to the painters to not disclosure these biases. He throughout the entire piece says that he does not mean to discount the winning pieces, and that he understands part of his reaction is because he is genuinely hurt and insulted by this outcome, but he does feel as if these problems he’s observed in Golden Demon are worth expressing. I don’t understand why your instinct is to assume the least charitable take and throw listening comprehension out the door instead of being open to the actual video. I have no stake in this guy’s content or the painting competition but it’s maddening see someone denigrate someone else seemingly for the sole purpose of being on a high-horse

[@kylekeenan3485]

His entry was easily commendable, lets face it.

[@BittermanAndy]

@@jaiar12 What competitions ever give feedback? I don't just mean painting competitions, but what ANY competitions give feedback? I can't think of any. The judges choose the entries they think are best, those are deemed the winners - that's how ANY competition like this works. All feedback would do would be to give opportunities for sore losers like this guy to complain more - "what do you mean X, that's not true, and why do you say Y, that applies to that other entry as well and that placed higher!". And it's not as though feedback was promised and not given... why should he expect it? I wouldn't. Someone would have to be pretty entitled to expect something not promised. How many entries were there? If feedback took just five minutes per entry, it could take DAYS if there are hundreds of entries... and for what? Honestly, it's just being a sore loser.

[@DeathKonas]

you listen with your ass

[@SqwantSquint]

@@BittermanAndy I think the reason people would want feedback is that it gives entrants an opportunity to see where they can improve.

[@TravelingAnvil]

Your work is beautiful. No matter what direction you choose I'm looking forward to seeing your work in the future! Hopefully they improve their processes and do a better job in future.

[@rumplefourskin6775]

Big sore loser vibes xD

[@notoriousgib]

Technical ability - 10/10 Visual impact - 5/10 Your ego/maturity - 2/10

[@DurinDaemonenmetzler]

It is self-centred and childish to complain objectively about serious injustices and incompetence?

[@mathieutherezien1397]

@@DurinDaemonenmetzler Given that judging a painting competition is always going to be 100% subjective, there is no way to complain about it objectively. Case in point, he shows a Tyranid that "should have won something" which, to me, has the typical look of a heavily airbrush piece. Was it heavily airbrushed? No idea, but it definitely has that look. Needless to say it is still a great piece, but I feel that the overall cleanliness and that airbrush-like highlight pattern repeated all over the model make it a far less interesting paintjob. I'm not saying the judges must have had the same issue, just how inherently subjective evaluating a model is: to Zumikito that Tyranid is at the same level as the actual top 3, to me it is not anywhere near it. And while I do not feel the same way about his two entries, I can see a few slightly underwhelming details on them. Like the absence of dirt or dust on the models to integrate them to their base. Which may have been an important criteria to these specific judges, who knows. The one "objective" thing one could say about that GD is that there were not nearly enough judges for the number of pieces to go through. Which makes his "maybe they didn't see my piece" at least a possible scenario, unlike going "someone at GW hates me" and "they didn't think straight" which are both incredibly conceited.

[@DurinDaemonenmetzler]

@@mathieutherezien1397 Guys, Zumikito is not complaining that his work didn't win, but that it was almost completely ignored and not recognised at all. Of course, some things are subjective when it comes to a judge's assessment, but the quality of the technical execution (very good) should be recognisable to anyone who is not completely unfamiliar with the subject. And Zumikito is a proven expert. But suddenly his work, prepared with care and effort, is no longer worth a second look (= second round achieved)? What happens from the second round onwards is a matter for professionals and possibly also personal preferences. I myself do not have your expert view and would therefore not be qualified to do so. I had expressed the idea above, as you did in your last answer, that his work was perhaps simply overlooked due to too many contributions. That seems the most likely variant to me.

[@awildtomappeared5925]

@@mathieutherezien1397 "Given that judging a painting competition is always going to be 100% subjective" Wrong, art is not 100% subjective, that view is why modern art and architecture look so shit. We used to make timeless beautiful art and buildings because people knew there were some objective standards by which beauty can be judged. Now when it comes to GW specifically they don't give any feedback on judging which means people don't know what standards of beauty they should follow exactly, they need to feel for it, eg generaly nice air brushing like that tyranid is praised in these comps but not this time.

[@nactd]

Ah the always present redditor that can't fathom someone said something disagreable on the internet. His complaints are perfectly valid.

[@Skalf86]

Copium factories are working 24/7 but it's difficult to meet your needs

[@prashkumar6734]

Do not let this set back define you, your art is amazing and your channel is inspirational so keep at it bro!

[@williamowens5144]

I wouldn't say you were negative at all. You were respectful of the other entrants, gave examples of winning entries vs ones that didn't make it past Notable that really should have, and showed how other painters reacted or even predicted you placing much higher. I'm glad you mentioned Vince's video because he does a great job of demonstrating what a frustrating shit show Golden Demon is becoming and I think a lot more of the top painters are going to start skipping it if things don't change soon.

[@Merdurphace]

But Vince never at any point said “the judges were a joke”…that’s pretty negative

[@marcwelch3039]

GD is no longer that relevant from a painting competition perspective. Inconsistent judging, highly subjective and not objective. Not to mention (and unrelated) the high costs of the minis made me drop the 40K hobby after over 30 years of collecting, painting and gaming. Love to still view the great artists' works online but, as I said before, the GD competition is one that has taken a back seat to better painting contests.

[@williamowens5144]

@@Merdurphace He kind of did, just in a much more diplomatic manner. No feedback, no transparency, inconsistencies in judging not just from one event to another but within the same event, etc. It leaves the entrants trying to figure out what kind of bias the judges have so they can skew their conversions and paint jobs in that direction to hopefully get noticed.

[@Merdurphace]

@@williamowens5144 this is true, and those points are valid. But again, saying the judges are a joke because this or that didn’t win is negative. If you won, and a major hobby KZbinr said the judges were a joke, would you feel good? I wouldn’t. Vince made the same points but did so without any form of negativity whatsoever.

[@BittermanAndy]

"A lot of top painters". Interesting. How many "top painters" would you say there are, in the world, or entering Golden Demon? Because if there are at least 4, at least one of them is going to not make it into the top 3. If there are hundreds, with very little to choose between them, as I suspect there probably are... then MOST of them don't make fifteen minute videos whining about how unfair it was that they didn't place top 3.

[@akindofmusic]

Adding my feedback to the couple of dozen other comments you've received regarding this video probably being better left in drafts. It's interesting to hear insights from a high level entrant to a competition like this, it's an awesome entry, and you're definitely not alone in feeling that there's some form of inconsistency ongoing in the judging. But you spend 12 minutes effectively saying "It's preposterous I didn't place better, look at this, this, and this in comparison. The only explanation is they didn't look at it properly or are crazy". As others have said, it's firstly a marketing vehicle for Games Workshop, closely followed by a painting competition. It's in their interests to mix things up a bit in their selections.

[@SprueWorldOrderGodfather]

I'm not usually one to comment negativity, there's way too much out there in the world. But... I feel I gotta say, you talked yourself out of a subscription. You should paint because you enjoy it, you like the process. Not because its gonna win you trophies. And if you don't win... well, this is not what you should do. Vince V put out a video with actual constructive advise and analysis. Yours comes off more like you're just sour grapes. And as a few people have said, yes your entry is technically correct. But there's no heart in it. It looks like you just had a rubric of what you thought the judges were going to look for and ticked off the boxes with all the passion of a man doing their taxes. I hope in the months to come you use this as a point of self-reflection.

[@swittman9123]

This is far more polite than I would have been, so instead I'll say I'm out, too, for exactly these reasons.

[@nactd]

Oh no boyo, I bet he is going to miss your sensitive ass.

[@Rambit]

"I'm salty that I lost so I made a video about it". Fixed the title for you

[@dantesabrewulf]

Such a big difference versus Emil and Lukas's take on Golden Demon.

[@Elfeeta]

First thing that came to mind was Vince’s decision to step away. I agree with your point of view and understand it. I love how you’ve evolved in the just couple of years and can’t wait to see what’s to come. Keep going!

[@joshyaks]

Your technical skills are out-of-this-world amazing, but as a piece of art it leaves some things to be desired. Others have mentioned the purple blob of the base and the static and uninteresting composition, so I won't beat that diseased horse. I'll only add that this is the cleanest, shiniest Nurgle crew I've ever seen! You've relied primarily on the sculpts (and a bit of dripping green stuff) to indicate the disease and decay, but nothing else about the way you've painted them shows the filth and grime that could have added to the look of the piece while displaying even more of your mind-blowing skills.

[@lordofhykra6150]

I'm sorry, what dude dude? You can't state all the entries were amazing, all the winners deserved it, art is subjective. Then decry that the subjective choices on the amazing entries were ludicrous. You're an amazing painter. You're great at explaing complex ideas simply, that's why I sub to the channel. But you've got two choices. Humble yourself. And look at logical reasons why those entries won and you didn't and re-aim for the competition. Or bang on about ludicrous near conspiracy theories about them not liking you, or judging being inept. If you choose the latter, I'd just give GD up. I'm nowhere near your level, but I've entered competitions and batted above my level, because on the day, I was able to sell an idea or a composition that sold. It's how it is. Have you considered that everyone who made it through the 1st round was a spectacular entry and only so many can make it through the next stage? I recommend watching Ninjons series. Amazing humblness and respect for the depth of competition. And it paid off.

[@matteomeloni3681]

People have a little following and choose to believe they are the new Jesus

[@spartankelli]

Ninjon also asked a lot of people (viewers along with experienced painters, including GD winners) for no-holds-barred critical feedback. He took it to heart and made significant reworks to a good amount of his model. Without that, I doubt he would have won his medal.

[@TheeYellowDart]

​@@spartankelliNinjon is not only a talented artist, but also an all round good dude.

[@themorgueTV]

Good entries, but nothing we havent seen 100 times.

[@wimvanackooij2594]

At least they didnt drop your mini before judging it...

[@changrcaterham5784]

“I actually really enjoy competitive painting” *proceeds to talk about winning all the time* -bro enjoys winning more than the painting itself-

[@mountbloodkill4477]

So...... I saw this piece as I randomly watched the Golden Demon and after not painting miniatures since I was a child, I'm now 36. I found my old gear and brought some paints and a pack Nighthaunt to practice on as I wait for my Lord of Plagues to arrive. Your work is amazing.

[@davidhutchison5415]

It's not to late to delete this one...

[@MidWanker-Minis]

Unlucky dude. But the thing is there is no quantifiable metric to judge these pieces on. It will always come down to the opinion of the judge. It’s like a rap battle. Or the ‘best’ album, or ‘best’ actor.

[@inkeddecker9964]

Take a step back, breathe in deeply, and reassess your relationship with this hobby.

[@melvilleseguyhouel3168]

I don't think it was wasted time, the results is fantasticly amazing and you are one of the most inspiring painters in this hobby

[@fischziege]

While I agree with your perspective on the issue, I think you are making the argument in a way that doesn't help your case and might not be super convincing. From listening to you I am left with the argument "This deserves better placement due to effort" over "This deserves better placement due to quality". Your work deserves higher placement due to quality imo, while no work deserves placement due to effort alone. I know it's tough and can seem maybe arrogant to make the argument "My work is better than what the judges saw in it", but I think in this case it should be. With the example of the tyranid mini, the quality aspect is more in the foreground of your argument, from what I'm picking up. All that being said: tough to see what lead to the decision that were made in judging your work.

[@alonelykouda]

quality breaths effort though my dude. the mini is not going to paint itself

[@fischziege]

@@alonelykouda Kinda, and I get what you mean. But the relation breaks down at some point. I could spend that time and be a better painter than I was before, but I wouldn't produce the quality. And with that new position, I would have to spend less effort to get better quality. I guess my point is this: effort is necessary, laudable and helpful, but not what competitions are being judged on. So if one has a gorgeous work of art that stands shoulder to shoulder with the best of the competition, then gets judged less favorably, the better butaybe harder to make argument is about the quality, not the effort.

[@Jamgeoso]

I see what you mean, but I feel differently about this. I took the repeated mention to time spent as an important statement about the investment and commitment made tot the competition. A lot of people as saying that spending time doesn't entitle you to anything but it's not that clear. If any of us spent that time we would expect, at a minimum, careful and considerate judging. There are enough people wo are dissatisfied with the quality of judging at GD this year to give everyone doubt that their hard work was properly considered and not quickly looked over and dismissed.

[@fischziege]

@@Jamgeoso See, this is where I disagree. Let's imgaine some kind of super painter, that mangaes to create the most beautiful minis that everyone agrees are the greatest of all time. And it turns out, he can create that top tier work in an hour. Should he be considered differently in a competition? No. I would say I expect careful and considerate judging for each and every entry, no matter how skilled or invested the painter is. Every beginner that musters the bravery to submit his 10h paintjob deserves to be taken serious by the judges, just like every other entry.

[@Jamgeoso]

@@fischziege I agree with you. I think I just didn't make my point clearly. Everyone deserves careful and considerate judging at a competition like this. My point was that if people are making huge commitments to a competition, it's important that they feel they are getting that. This video is not a complaint in isolation. It seems that a lot of people are unhappy with the judging this year specifically. Any perceived problem with the judging is really detrimental to a competition. Especially when people are so invested. Hopefully things will improve.

[@TorSkywalker]

As someone who doesn't know anything about this high level of miniature painting: Can someone explain to me what he actually did in those 500 hours? Because that would be like 3 months of working full time on those minis, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and I just don't understand which part of the painting process would take that much time even at this level of precision and quality.

[@weakish]

That level of smooth blending using layer and glazing is incredibly time consuming. Every section of the model has that, spread over a huge diorama is going to take a lot of time. I am not on this dudes level but have spent upwards of 20+ hours on character centerpiece models doing blends with glazing. It takes a while to get the blends just right.

[@jons5478]

Imo, from the amount of GD content I've kept up with over the years and even before I saw all the comments here. It was absolutely the base. Compare your almost solid purple base with a lot of the other contenders. There's virtually no variety. Also with the one dude's Tyrnanid model, the colors are amazing, but the red/blue color scheme makes the whole model blend together in a really bad way to where its hard to even see where the face is, the fine details of the model are lost. I think you and your friends, and I say this with good intentions have formed an echo-chamber of positive feed-back.

[@jackofalltrades6488]

I liked when you said: "I`ll probably enter Golden Demon again, but I won`t take it as serious...". I think that is the best inner setting for you. So many great actors and directors who never won at the Oscars. But I can understand your frustration!

[@markhohenbrink5230]

I can understand being upset about not getting a higher placing, but I can also understand how a judge could pick others over yours. A lot of the golden demon entries I have seen from the competition are usually way over the top, which makes the paintjob feel loud and cumbersome compared to more simplistic pieces. Does it mean their piece is better than yours by any margin, probably not, but the Judges think so. At the end of the day, the Judges are judging what they like rather than whats better or what the community feels is better. Additionally, a lot of the pictures ive seen of the Golden Demon pieces are heavily edited or at least taken from the artists preferred veiwing angle, but Judges will look at the piece from any angle they like. That can create a problem in regards to placement obviously.

[@MickyMike11]

Thought the same thing when he brought up that Tyrannid example at 7:30. Yes, it's amazingly painted, but it looks like something you'd see in a black light mini golf center. It's so over the top that it ends up looking more like some glowing power rangers battle suit than a Tyrannid.

[@Dandyphonic]

I feel your pain and am really sorry for the time you've put in. But your piece is just incredible, I love it. Keep up the good work.

[@sblomkamp]

I love your painting, but the fact that you can spend the all time to make this video without once stropping to question how cringe it might come off is kind of baffling. I'm glad the comments here are on the same page. This feels like losing poorly rather than painting for the love of it. Sure, the sticker thing is questionable and the contest has its flaws, but boy oh boy that does not justify this sort of nearly petulant response. Hopefully you can reflect on the lessons in the comments and from peers. I expected more from you. I wonder if this video will stay up...

[@milkenobi]

I’m not going to weigh in on the judging or anything and a lot of people have given great insight on your entry. I will just say that I love your painting, your miniatures bring me a lot of joy to look at and I really appreciate your work. Just a layman, non-professional painter here, giving you some appreciation. Oh, and, I appreciate your honesty and being open about your frustration, I can tell it has knocked you about. Please keep up the good work😊

[@carlofhodgy1501]

If you think you’ve wasted your time you have, you should enjoy your painting, not crying that someone else didn’t.

[@0CalAgricola]

Keep at it man, you're stuff is great. It's hard to be let down in a competition, especially when there seem to be some poor judging along the way, but keep your head high and keep making great videos!

[@Vyperuk]

I think there are just a lot more people in the hobby now, and a lot more amazing painters. If you go back 20 years there were maybe a handful of people who could paint to this standard, but now you can go on any random KZbin channel and find incredible work. So you're now in a pool of potentially hundreds of people. It gets to a point where an excellent paint job is just expected, and you're probably competing more on what the individual judges like and composition. It's similar with musicians, there are any number of people who have completely mastered their instrument, but only a handful of them ever make it in a big band. The pool is just so large that it starts to be down to luck and circumstances, rather than raw skill.

[@necaacen]

in a way i think my biggest issue with something like GD isnt that it becomes subjective but rather it isnt subjective enough. they say the way they judge from so many amazing pieces is that they look for technical flaws, this spot isnt rendered as well as the rest is etc. so they find flaws and the reject that model until they are left with 1 piece which is the least flawed piece. so what u end up with is basically an art competition judged on technical ability with a brush. its like a music competition judged on how precisely every note was played. 99% of people who listen to music listen to it because of the emotions the music makes them feel, thats the beauty of music, why its amazing. making your hand go really fast in a really precise way is not music. this is what GD basically is, a measure of technical precision with a brush. i would rather it wasnt down to luck OR raw skill, i would rather a set of judges whos subjective tastes are respected making their own subjective judgements based on how the art speaks to them as art because that is the only criteria through which art is really meaningful.

[@straycatt1313]

Speaking as someone who competed 20 years ago, you are vastly underestimating the quality of the painters back then. That, or overestimating the painters now. There are two major differences from 20 years ago. 1. The quality of materials has improved massively. Artists no longer really have to struggle with the limitations of the paints/brushes/etc available to them, and simply have to focus on technique and composition. 2. There is a TON more coverage than there was 20 years ago. Back then you had Cool Mini or Not, and not much else. Now there are countless KZbin Channels, Twitch Channels, discord servers, etc.

[@MCharlesPainting]

How to have GOOD ODDS of WINNING Golden Demon: - They want GW style (not generic Euro artistic styles or realism. GW style. Rarely does something else win, unless it's perfected in the other areas) - They want great story (in-universe, if possible) - They want new and good -- and in-universe, if possible -- composition - They want a model they want to market that year (though does not always win) - They want mostly GW parts and little kit-bashing - They want GW-friendly basing (as it were) - They want a bias towards 40k (for marketing and such, as I said, unless x model is pushed at the time, in which case, it might be Lizardmen or LOTR/Hobbit) - They want expert skills (again, in the GW style 90% of the time) - They want something above and beyond 'extremely well-made'. They want either 'perfect' or 'great'. Greatness implies a certain extra jump, beyond what you're capable of (or your current level/feelings about your own ability), or beyond the parts themselves, into a new whole. It must have profound impact, in other words. They want true art. They want something to manifest that you didn't think possible in your overall composition and direction. You can see this clearly in some of the best painters. Their pieces are unthinkable. They're not merely 'correctly placed and well-painted'. They're beyond that. If the piece is 'perfect', that just means 'it cannot be painted any better in the strict GW style'. This rarely happens, but sometimes wins Slayer Sword. In reality, improvements can always be made, but it means 'almost flawless' (almost non-human in its level of exactness across the entire model or models) If you make something somebody else already kinda made 7 years ago, I don't think you should win. Maybe they don't think so, too. If you do a 'really good non-GW style', it's also unlikely to win. If you do a 'cool thing but only used 70% GW parts, no real story, bad model choice, etc.' then it's also unlikely to win anything. It does depend also on luck, judge choices, and the talent pool that year. If you fail on many of these items above, you won't win anything unless the talent pool is tiny/terrible. Before sinking 500 or 800 hours into it, maybe ask them directly, or ask Golden Demon winners/pros some advice? Just so you know what you're doing in terms of Golden Demon. It's worth wasting 20 hours of phone calls and such to save maybe 300 hours of work -- or at least to help ensure that you actually win something after your 800 hours of work. Unless the talent pool is truly amazing, you will win something if you correctly follow all the guidelines (and get a bit lucky, on a year-by-year basis). This is why I'd suggest entering 2 or 3 years, paint 2 or 3 models, about 300 hours each, following the guidelines. This gives you much better odds of winning than pouring 800 hours into just one year! (I have even sometimes seen bad bases and/or plinths win, so that's not a sole factor. I've also seen non-GW standards in terms of style and models win, but only when the painting skills were roughly #2 best in the world. I've also seen not the best painting skills win, when every other item is enforced. Golden Demon has been going for like 40 years, so there have been all kinds of winners over the years. But most of them have tried to stick close to what GW wants, and got lucky in terms of that year's cycle. It's more like a 'draw' than 'I must win this, or I'll cry about it'.) ASSUME you're going to lose, PAINT like you want to win, and be happy if you do win, humble if you lose. That's my advice. :)

[@deetsitmeisterjd]

He did nothing besides painting 3 miniatures, they are in our of the box poses with a bland base, they 3 don't even feel connected. The paint job is really nice, but that's like entering an eating competition for eating 10 different foods and eating 1 really fast...

[@Lugburz]

@@deetsitmeisterjdagreed. The paint job is really nice, but I find them to clean and shiny for Nurgle, also the posing is generic, and the models seem disconnected from the purple base. Better the base, blend the reflections from the base into the models to make them seem more alive and part of the scenery, I definitely think this could have placed much higher. It’s crazy how much more alive the squigosaur gold entry feels when comparing the base and how it interacts with the model.

[@alonelykouda]

I have entered plenty of different things into my state fair and other events and you HAVE to go in expecting to get nothing and accept that what you are doing is for you and not for them. I have been assured by judges at events I have taken place in that there is and will always be some favoritism when it comes to judging. We are all human here and looking at a single ultramarine EVEN if its painting to the absolute perfect GW standard and deciding it deserves silver in the open category is something nobody could fathom except the people that make those decisions. Even my brother said it deserved that award where I couldn't understand why or how it did. If you look at cult of paints elf dioramas its absolutely insane (TO ME) that it didn't win at least bronze but apparently not to them. Sorry for the rant! still both of those pieces are absolutely stunning!

[@fredericthomas156]

you are not wasting anything ,800 hours for learning about painting, learning about yourself, learning about life. Proud of you for all your your effort but more important : be proud of YOU

[@webb9182]

Art always has been and always will be subjective to each individual. Don’t get butt hurt over a hobby with moving goal posts, you’re better than that.

[@sekiro875]

it's not a hobby for him, it's his job

[@infinitedm5396]

@@sekiro875 Still it is entirely subjective. Competitive art is a wild ride to choose to be on.

[@awildtomappeared5925]

it's partially subjective partially, objective, the idea that it's 100% subjective is why modern art and architecture looks like shit compared to classical art and architecture made when people taught objective beauty standards The judges will definilty have their own standards that they judge by, the issue is that A there were 3 judges and 1k enteries, some good minis just don't get the attention they deserve, that's what happened here. And the othere issue is that there is no feed back what so ever (again 3 judges and 1k entries)

[@РусланСмирнов-ж3ц]

Bro, if my words mean anything, then I have to say that without you and your channel, I would not have been able to advance in painting miniatures beyond the battle ready level. Now I teach people how to paint miniatures myself (with partial blindness in the red and green spectrum, lol), and that says a lot. And I repeat, without your talent and the channel, I would not have been able to do this. Thank you so much, for me you've had all the golden demons for a long time, and the chair you're sitting on during the painting is made of slayer swords fused together.

[@luketfer]

Honestly this really does sound like you're a salty boi for someone outside the competitive painting circle.

[@BarcelPL]

Remember the (I think) last year Slayer Sword winner? The vampire reflection in a lake? That piece was not only (I presume, because I put the minimum 3 colors on my minis) superbly painted but also HOLY shit was that model just spectacular. I mean it would probably get a finalist pin with just a base and zenithal. See my point? To win the best award, you really need to be the best, all around. And also remember - as someone pointed - GD is a marketing tool for GW, so judges will obviously choose a slightly technically worse painted model if it just makes the average dude go "oh man that is AWESOME"

[@mr.stackandclear6727]

If you consider it wasted time, maybe you shouldn’t be painting dude. I get it, it’s a competition and people get competitive but if you doing this with the expectation to get something from it then you are doing it for the wrong reasons. I’m sure you already know that and don’t need me to tell you. Edit: also, saying things are “3 levels worse” is such a negative way of viewing things. You’re better than this man.

[@chibizion]

Came here to say the same thing when I saw the title. If you "wasted" your time doing something then you need to look at your priorities and figure out why you're spending time doing it.

[@ravenmane7913]

@@chibizion ^Exactly this. People lose in competitions. Getting salty and proceeding to "objectively explain why I should have won" is just immature. A master in any kind of craft shouldn't seek to validate he's superiority by expecting to just enter competitions and grab a couple of trophies home. Maybe the models failed to catch judges attention despite being flawlessly painted? Neither entry here doesn't really stand out to me as particularly interesting to look at.

[@thenotoriousfoca1339]

Guys, just to defend Zumikito here, you Are not the ones understanding. This is not a "hihihi I'm having fun this is an hobby for me". This guy lives off painting, and as a pro painter, winning a golden demon is a big part of his CV. It's like being a pro League of Legends player and retiring without winning worlds. Maybe you have been a good player, but you are not a world champ. It's not the point.

[@chibizion]

@@thenotoriousfoca1339 okay but pro players don't say they lost unfairly and should have won because they did X more hours training. He is being a bad loser.

[@ravenmane7913]

@@thenotoriousfoca1339 You're implying that every world class athlete should win Olympic gold in their careers to make their CV look nice? Every single participant is there looking to win. Hard work doesn't guarantee you wins and there. There are different ways to cope with losing. You might look into your own work/performance and ty to improve yourself for the next competition OR I guess you can of course take it to a big public forum like here and shout your longs out how you should have won and the game was rigged. Losing feels bad when you have a lot in line. In my sport I failed my current belt grading the first time I tried to pass it after training three years for it and I can relate it feels bad on spot. I even might have said something bad to few of my close training friends and I deeply regret it afterwards. Thankfully I managed to keep my ego in check and didn't make a bigger number out of it. I passed the grading 7 months later and now I'm preparing for the next one.

[@MonCompteTubulaire]

A great paint isn't only about strong, smooth contrast. The tyranid has some incoherences about where the light arrives and about how the light reacts to certains materials (chitine isn't smooth and reflective as metal). About your minis, I'm almost sure you didn't study the wounds before painting it (fibrinous, necrosis, ulcerous, etc.). They are beautiful but they doesn't insert well in the universe. Immersion is maybe more important than smooth lights, NMMs and OSLs

[@weakish]

You would have a point if not for the fact that the Tyranid didn't even get a pin, yet the bronze winner of the Large Mini/Vehicle format is just an edge highlighted Landspeeder on a plinth using uneven washes on its true metallics. Also, the other nurgle miniatures that won trophies used very similar wound colors and techniques like he did, that is a silly take that they aren't realistic looking enough. Zumikito is being very whiny here but he certainly got shafted for a reason, and the fact that there is zero feedback is just silly.

[@AzurielMist]

These are fantastic pieces, but comparing their bases to your own, there is quite a lot of difference which might very well be the factor, they are day and night better, the raptors and trog were a joy to view. If they allocate points based on the painting quality, creativity etc then I think this might be where is falls short in a pure points allocation based system they might have used to judge in certain areas. Again, absolutely fantastic pieces of work you have provided.

[@spamstabber]

Because bases are not an actual judging criteria at GD, they are entirely optional. Although how much it naturally detracts from the end product is debatable.

[@NikkiAnnMarie]

​@@spamstabber That isn't true - bases are optional, but if you include them they will be judged. They judge the piece as a whole. If you put a perfectly painted miniature on a glued sand base painted goblin green, it isn't going to win a demon

[@spamstabber]

@@NikkiAnnMarie except some of the winner's bases are barely more than what you just described, you should go look at them.

[@NikkiAnnMarie]

​@@spamstabber Not sure what you're seeing, but not a single miniature from the winners at Essen has a bad base, they are all rendered exceptionally well. Many are simple, but all are well executed.

[@VitharPL]

That's why I don't put much care into art competitions - they're very subjective to a certain degree and just the fact that judges may not like something about your art - no matter how pristine it is at the execution level - you just lose it. That's why it's better to be more focused on the road not a goal. The road hones your skills, the goal is only just a good add-on. You might not get the trophy, even the damn pin. But the only thing that matters is - that you created a great piece, that probably raised your skill to the next level.

[@GrimonprezB]

All Art competitions are like that. If you think that's a waste of time and your work deserve better...well Arts competitions aren't for you. And when I hear and read peoples sayin' no feedback is made...that's a lie (friends are worst than you and they asked for advices and feedbacks). No creating a drama? Damn... 12min about saying you're not in top 3... Again: arts competitions are a nightmare, none can't escape personal tastes, feeling of judging same stuffs again,.... Choices need to be made when you're a judge... and they aren't all from GW.

[@amoryburgess]

I feel you...I think the tiers are percentage based...50% nothing, 25% noteable, 10% finalist, and 5% commended. I threw a WIP model I was drybrushing the night before that got a finalist pin because the category was very sparse, and my unit entry that I spent the most time on got nothing... In the end, it's subjective :D

[@jphlol]

My god, what a way to act about not winning

[@TheeYellowDart]

But definitely whining.

[@michaelrusch1336]

@Zumikito I went to golden demon this march and entered a miniature last minute. I received notable entry which I was honestly blown away with since I didn’t feel it was up to par. It’s insane to me your pieces didn’t at least reach commended entry. The technique and blending is insane, they definitely misjudged your pieces. I’m gonna try again in 2026 hopefully I’ll see one of your pieces there!

[@MoonStarBoardGames]

having a youtube channel entitles you to nothing, putting x amount of hours into painting entitles you to nothing, winning a small painting competition in nowhere-eastern europe entitles you to nothing, having your buddies tell you how great you are entitles you to nothing. you entered the world's premier painting competition, where guys whose literal passion is just spending literally every day and night painting - not shooting and editing videos, or uploading reels or stories, or any other bit of nonsense influencers do - all these guys do is paint; those guys entered, and they came from around the world to do so. take this as a reality check that being an influencer really means little, and get better at making interesting, dynamic scenes that aren't "some guys standing around awkwardly for a high school photo shoot on a flat purple base."

[@daydreamerdesigns3D]

Your piece is incredible - only things I can see that might have gone against you is the purple base clashes against the figures (which is subjective) and the armour and cloth is all too clean and shiny for Nurgle but also doesn't make sense on the model itsefl for example the swords and armour look gloriously shiny and new yet have patches of corrosion on them as well. They can't be new and clean and also dented and corroded.

[@greggbeatty7252]

Look, your pieces are good but they clearly weent the quality the judges were looking for. Unfortunately, with so many entries it’s likely very difficult to tell each person why their entry wasn’t good enough. Art is subjective. You just have to accept it. Straight up did not like this video, it felt like someone complaining because they didn’t win.

[@charlesnunya2347]

is there some rule that you can't enter the same piece multiple years? Could you go back next year and resubmit it and see if a new group of judges gives it a higher appraisal? Then you can take it as is or do a little bit more on the base to push it over the top.

[@ericlang7408]

That’s exactly what happened with at least two entries that were commended in previous GD and won a trophy this time

[@mhumienny]

Just wondering, isn't it that the numer of pins is limited? and number of entries is growing? Maybe at some point they have to decide what entries are going to get pin out of the limited number? I think like in most cases, winning is a combination of skill/dedication and pure luck. Maybe last time there people who didn't get a pin but in their opinion should wasn't just willing to share their opinion publicly? Great work making the miniatures btw :)

[@tassosmks]

don't be a sore loser bruh. you're a great painter. keep at it and don't waste time on complaining.

[@Acrylicviking]

I haven't seen all the entries, so take this comment with a grain of salt: A few winners seem to show a neat but somewhat basic paintjob with interesting composition. Seems like judges tried leveling the playing field by focusing on certain visible effects like heavy metal edging (don't google it), rather than on smoothness and technique.

[@awildtomappeared5925]

usually smooth blending techniques do well in these competitions, but what they want changes and they aren't clear about it

[@gianhao]

Been in a few competitions and learned a lot. Essentially, I know I can win by giving the judges what they want to see, but this means deviating from my style and art process. Competitions and judges are very subjective and sometimes political. With that, I always stick with what I want to show / share and be fulfilled with how people appreciate and relate to my art, most of the time few. I intentionally listen to those who aim to help me elevate my process and enjoy other people's art. We have to be ready that no matter how good are execution are, judges may not see it as we do. It's just art really.

[@GMSnoodles]

"It's totally ok that I didn't win, but it's not ok that I didn't win" You did a great job painting but the entire video comes across as being a sore loser, pointing out other people who also didn't place doesn't change how this comes across. Judges are just people and people judge based on different things. All you can do is keep entering or move on to something else. It happens to everyone who paints competitively. Keep on keeping on.

[@YouJustKnowIAmRight]

You must have not heard what he was trying to say.

[@eewweeppkk]

That isn't how quotes work and that's a stupendously ignorant message to take away from the video. He asked other high level painters and judges of they thought he'd have a strong position and they said he'd peibably place top 3. He didn't make it out of pre screening, implying his mini was significantly worse than those of the higher tiers. Having this tiered system is stupid and that's what the video is about. Coming away from it with your take in insanity because he said the opposite only about 7 times.

[@Kingu]

He flat out says he’s a sore loser later in the video. It is a bit of mixed messaging.

[@BittermanAndy]

@@eewweeppkk he and his friends thought he deserved better, without even seeing the other entries? Well. That's totally convincing. My mum says I'm a great painter too.

[@eewweeppkk]

@BittermanAndy He and other people whose job it is is to judge painting competitions and know what to expect out of the competition. If your mom was a painting competition judge I'd probably trust her judgement.

[@Mercenario_De_Cain]

Don´t be sad, you did your job and that's the most important. You didn´t wasted 800 hours, you INVESTED in 6 amazing and incredible minis. Grats!

[@fitz394]

I've been where you are man. It sucks but the hardest part is separating who you are from it and helping others do the same. Your painted stuff is excellent but you're a uniquely good teacher at this. It's less glamorous but there are far fewer of you than slayer sword winners.

[@larsickenroth7169]

Question: as a painter/artist working in fine-arts, I've judged some fine-arts competitions in the past and curated shows. Now, it is common courtesy in that realm to - at the very least - receive a jury-rapport on why your entry won/lost or ended on a specific spot. The idea being: 1. That's your learning moment, and probably almost as valuable to have in order to become better 2. It forces a jury to write consistently and without mixed judgements/ they have to provide a coherent argument as to what their choices were. If you don't have something like that, it's the wild-west: anyone can veto anything, and as a competitor you're at the whim of personal tastes, or - worse yet : whether you're judged in the morning or afternoon and whether the jury in question was feeling hangry at the time. (seriously: this has been proven in court-cases, where chances for a positive call decrease exponentially after 12.00 o'clock. So, curious: are there any rapports/do you get any feedback at all? If not, it's about time for them to become more professional about this....

[@christian908]

I'm gonna be real I think he's being a bit of a baby about all this. Like, dude I'm sorry you didn't win, but, that doesn't mean the competition is broken or the judges did something wrong. Maybe there was just a really strong turnout that event. I'm assuming they give out finalist pins and commended cards based on a percentage, so like only the top percent get the awards, since they only have so many pins. So how well you do, kind of depends on how strong the competition is. Which makes sense, so that's how you can do the same quality of work, and get different awards. The competition improved more than he did.

[@kraftybrigitte]

I'm so happy you're back. I was wondering where you went. I think you're an AMAZING painter, don't let it bother you. Hugs

[@cmotd147]

So many issues with the approach to this video. 1. You can't prove if the judges did or didn't do their job properly 2. You seem to have entered a competition without trying to work out the criteria 3. Saying 3 tiers lower is disingenuous all the other painters are at a professional level only putting up pictures of the top 3 makes it seem like the rest were of lesser quality. 4. You chose the hours to put in if they are wasted, spend your time more efficiently or to an amount you are happy with 5. Fishing for complements rather than critiques is fine but won't help understand why you lost

[@monger4613]

Hopefully the quality of your work and the recognition from other content creators leads to more success than the golden demon ever could. Just keep doing amazing work. It deserved top 3 but not even getting a finalist pin is wild.

[@keng6663]

If you get sore at not winning a competition then maybe competition painting just isn’t for you.. every art based competition is purely subjective..

[@adamjohnston2774]

What did the commended entries look like? Is there a limit to the number of commended entry pins per category? How did those that didn't earn a pin, stack against those that did, rather than against those that won?

[@Hendarion]

There were other entries in other categories as well which only got Notable and where the decision was equally incorrect. I have no idea what happened. PS: Funny to see me on stage. Thanks for that easter egg. :D

[@Philtoid]

Cry about it😂

[@Hendarion]

@@Philtoid Why would I cry? I won a demon and I didn't talk about my own entries either. Grow up.

[@awildtomappeared5925]

@@Hendarion most the peple in the comments just seem to know nothing about the competition and didn't watch half the video before just trying to stir shit in the comments