The dark side of Golden Demon - here’s what went wrong

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

Heads up everyone, only 8 more days left to grab the limited Edition Squidmar Infinity Airbrush! And while you're at it, maybe grab a wet palette and paints as well :) harderairbrush.com/pages/squidmar-release-2024-inf

[@Tom-x9n]

And way the campaign gets extended i just got my First Job and would be happy to get one by the start of next month?

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

@@Tom-x9n Hey man, the airbrush will not be available after the campaign unfortunately. Paints will, wet palette we have about 25% of the stock left, so if you're lucky that one will be available as well :)

[@whitevader007]

Because now I have time (Early retirement) I ordered everything! The wet palette + Vallejo paints are delivered. Still waiting on the limited Edition Squidmar Airbrush. Bought the airbrush medium to thin out the paint. Until I got the airbrush busy making my own style of paintings (style Mondriaan).

[@meerkat8010]

@@SquidmarMiniatures would be nice if i actually got the paints. been 2 1/2 weeks now and still no communication as to when they're shipping

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

@@meerkat8010 Hey man, they are shipping every day in the hundreds! You can send me an email on our website, tomorrow i'll look in to your order for you!

[@sploobert46]

It would be fun if you both painted a “mystery” miniature that you hide from each other and see if you can find each others miniatures @ the event.

[@davidmarriaga2672]

I like this…

[@Death-np9yz]

Dope idea lol, but it has to be in complete secrecy. No mention of model or paints, that would make it fun

[@mbergamin16]

And have the models sent in by random viewers🤔

[@griffenrice2070]

This would be very fun 😂

[@tommytomlin944]

this

[@ArnauMiniatures]

Thanks for the mention guys! I am really glad you liked my piece :)

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

It's amazing 😍

[@sg1trogdor]

That thing looked amazing. When they did that close up i swear i was looking at a comic drawing or something.

[@scubadiver6895]

@@SquidmarMiniatures It really is incredible! To me best story telling of all and that Gold is phenomenal if there is one weakness in the piece, I would say that the tyrnids are not as well painted as your your space marine.

[@Tendorine]

I think one of the biggest issues is that there were only two judges judging over a thousand entries. imo there should be a whole judges committee

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Surely a crowd favorite award category should happen as well where everybody gets to vote on their favorite single piece. (Is that a thing? It should be a thing)

[@MCharlesPainting]

Most competitions only have between 1 and 5 judges, at the local (e.g. shop-level) and wider levels, in Europe, UK, and America. The same is true for most sporting events and otherwise competitions. Indeed, the same is true in law with 1 judge (or, 12 jurors at best). At the company, military, and governmental levels, you also see a trend towards a handful of 'judges' with the CEO, commander, CO/XO, etc., and otherwise. Even in cases of large committees, we're typically only talking about 5-10 people in the inner circle/with the ultimate power. Even in committee-style dictatorships, you often find an 'inner circle' of 3 to 10, often with an overarching head/leader. Further: any fundamental flaws in the entire competition framework are not solved by simply adding 20 or 200 judges/leaders to the mix. On top of this, more judges create further issues, including a profound time sink, and additional cost requirements. This would kill Golden Demon. 2 or 3 judges is normative, and Golden Demon is no exception. Personally, 3 or 5 (odd number) sounds reasonable to me. This way, there is a tie-break when required. With 2 judges, there is fast-paced decision-making and agreement, but it can lead to issues, including narrow considerations. But 2-team forces have been powerful for decades in many areas of life, and they have generated diverse thinking just fine. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby come to mind, also the Jagex brothers (3, but 2 were primary), and the Naughty Dogg team (primarily, 2 people on many of their projects), and the Rare brothers (under Nintendo and indie before that). Bill and Kane were a profound 2-man team for DC for many years; namely, with Batman. Other comics are often a 2-man force primarily (writer and artist). Movies are often a 3- or 3-man force, sometimes not taking external ideas at all. Otherwise, it's about 6 primary members of a film crew. Many board game teams are also two men. Many writing teams are also a duo, both fiction and non-fiction. Many music teams are 2-man writers/singers. It's the smallest, strongest unit possible. If 2 judges are judging more by strict guideline than personal feeling, and where there is innately, no external concerns or investors, there is even less need for a large board of judges. The reason there is a 10- or 20-man board meeting in many companies and governments, etc. is not for strong thought, but for self-interest and external interest purposes. And often these people are dealing with not 1,000 entries but millions of citizens and vast, complex systems, long-term plans, and/or billions or trillions of dollars in assets. You know how many people were in the meeting that opened up China around 1993? 5 men, one of which was Henry Kissinger. So 2 judges for a Warhammer event held by Warhammer themselves is reasonable. You know how many men control most wealth and nation-building in the world? 3, one of which is the controller of BlackRock. (Even opting for a French system, where so many people play a role in state-building, we find the co-author of The Great Reset and the globalist plan for total power under the WEF was in the PM office for 3 years some time ago. Not what I would call a lack of governmental penetration.) As a general rule, I don't like committes of any sort unless the foundations and intentions are good and constitutional, or there is some deep reason why we would support such a framework. Almost always, when somebody cries about Golden Demon, what they mean is, 'I wish it was judged the way I want it to be judged -- I wish I was judged better. I wish it was different, ruled in a different manner, a completely different competition'. If nothing else, Games Workshop has the right to define Golden Demon however they want. This trend of insisting that businesses must bend to the will of a citizen or be within a public interest framework is troubling. And: what if said committee of 7 or 12, for example, came to a conclusion you disliked, or had the exact same situation as 2 judges? The only real argument I see for more judges is to speed up the judging process, but it's not without its drawbacks. They could limit entries to just 500, of course -- but this would cause a talent pool shortage, and bring the quality of the judgement into question, and make the event smaller (and possibly also crush the profits of the event for the company). As I said, 3 or 5 judges seems reasonable. We don't have to demand an entire committee and bloated body. You know what the word 'Soviet' means? Committee. Maybe the Roman Republic was a decent example, but they were dealing with an entire society for endless decades, of course. The UN is a committee, largely dictated by about 10 people, and has power over 8 billion humans (almost every nation)! What else is a Soviet-like structure? The European Union -- clue is in the name, 'union'. Be careful what you wish for, and understand the words you use. The word doesn't make sense in this context. It's not the function of most committees in organisational frameworks. The word you're looking for is 'panel'. A 'panel of judges'. Again: this is between 2 and 5 in almost every case, in every area of life. Rarely, you see 6 or more panellists in politics and otherwise. However, most common is between 3 and 4, including with painting competitions. What you should be suggesting is a jump to 3 or 4 judges, with the feeling being that you'll not only save time (assuming they judge faster) but get a better judgement call. This assumes Warhammer wants a shorter event, can afford extra judges/a shorter event, and/or requires additional judges, according to their guidelines. And it, of course, assumes that it will create a shorter event. It might ensure a longer event, which they likely cannot accept. More judges = more time required to come to judgement/agreement. If 2 judges say x and 3 judges say y, they then must come to a choice, and you still have a complex issue of fairness and the quality of the judgement. Maybe you want 4/5 judges to say x, which makes the task almost impossible most of the time. You might as well just use 2 judges at that point. What happens in tie situations, where 2 judges say x and 2 judges say y? Who wins the category, such as 'diorama' or whatsoever? This requires a complex, lengthy process.

[@Oyxopolis]

​​​@@MCharlesPainting that's a lot of text and you are generally right, but in this case judging could be much more simplified. You don't need unanimous verdict. Every judge passes judgements, the average of all judges is the end score. Problem solved. All the judges need to do, is check an objective list, with as little as possible subjective deviation.

[@TheOzzyRaptor1]

Take out the highest and lowest scores given by judges. Add up remaining score total, lowest score wins.

[@antiwhatever5391]

@@MCharlesPainting The law and society have absolutely nothing to do with a judging process and my goodness that was a lot of words to have not said anything.

[@drdrty]

I remember the old days of golden demon, I entered the “young bloods” competition. Which had strict rules over the type of mini which could be entered. So I painted a piece which was strictly following the rules set. When I got there I passed a few rounds but slowly I saw the pieces passing with mine were not even close to following the rules. Eventually I didn’t make it to the final round - but seeing the judges passing pieces which didn’t follow the rules which had limited my own entry, totally disheartened me to continue the hobby.

[@MrAbraxus666]

The physical equivalent of that is "A young up and coming footballer gives up the game because the ref sided with the other team"

[@FourFour-ee1tf]

You need to be point that out to someone official that’s wild. If you did say something and they did nothing so be it but in future stand up for yourself. What’s the worst that can happen they kick you out for being right and you get a nice Reddit post.

[@amalekedomite]

@@MrAbraxus666 No. It is not. The real equivalent would be "A young up and coming footballer gives up the game because the ref allowed the other team to cheat and awarded them the win regardless." The issue is not where the ref sided. The issue is that there were rules of competition which were broken, and the ref ignored it. Thus invalidating the rules in general and making the competition unfair on a base level. Which is why the lad was discouraged. His talent, skill, experience, whatever did not matter. It's like turning up to a footrace and the other guy has a yamaha superbike. Of course he's going to beat your time.

[@MrAbraxus666]

@@amalekedomite Annnnnnnnd how often is that an issue in football? To the point they had to add VAR? I mean, the literal pitch invasions over biased refs, they must be a figment of my imagination. If you want to cut to the quick, 99% of these types of comments are just salty folks that either didn't stand up for themselves or are grossly exaggerating the circumstances. The world's unfair, stop being a sensitive wee soul and crack on with it.

[@amalekedomite]

@@MrAbraxus666 We are not talking about football, it was a metaphor. One you brought up. And now you adress it exclusively instead of the point being made or the other metaphor found in my previous comment. If you want to cut to the quick that was a very weak attempt at deflection followed by pure sophistry. You are not as smart as you pretend to be.

[@no_cool_names]

There are always two certainty in a Golden demon competition. 1.) A couple of people will win. & 2.) A couple thousand people will be salty.

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

True story🤣

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

@@deadso Ah nice one man, commenting on more comments before finishing the video. You seem like a proper chap - not contributing with anything just complaining without adding anything. I think this might actually be your last comment on a youtube video. If you ever feel like contributing with positivity again. Maybe we'll reconsider :)

[@karalas]

​@@SquidmarMiniaturesnow i really want to see what they said 😂

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

@@karalas if I remembered I'd let you know 🤣 we have a few per day

[@karalas]

@SquidmarMiniatures I'm sure anyways thanks for your thoughts on jt all that nurgle collection that didn't win was awesome but i am biased and must share the Papa's love. Brent also high up on the list of people I would want to meet

[@KabinMiniatures]

Golden Demon was featured in our local newspaper here in Sweden, since we had a Youngbloods winner from our town! 🥳 I've never seen Warhammer on the front page before 🤯

[@Haruki2009]

Vänta VAAA!? Vilken tidning?

[@KabinMiniatures]

@@Haruki2009 HD (Helsingborgs Dagblad) 👍

[@Haruki2009]

@@KabinMiniatures 👍

[@Evilminiature]

@@KabinMiniatures Fan va coolt :D

[@avallach666]

youngbloods? as in the street gang? or is it a category?

[@ROMANLAPPATMINIATUREART]

It was great meeting you both finally. Apologies for being so busy and distanced while being professional while judging Golden Demon :)

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

The same man! Lovely meeting you!

[@EatTheMarxists]

You’re one of the judges? If you see this comment and feel like answering I would love to know how two people can judge so many entries! It seems like a Herculean task. Do you guys have a few days to review the entries or is it done in one day, and if it’s done in only one day how can you guys really pick out the best ones when you’d have like ten seconds to look at each one? Don’t get me wrong here - I am sure that you guys are masters of your craft and know what to look for; it just seems to me that it would be virtually impossible for only two judges to go over thousands of entries in one or two days.

[@rlucas88]

Guys i've been watching your videos from long time ago, and seeing my Necromunda and my underworlds pirate boat entries here its awesome! I was not expectint that, and thanks for the nice comments.

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

Do you have an instagram account name to share with us?

[@rlucas88]

​@@SquidmarMiniaturesSure, rodni_salmorejo, cheers!

[@rlucas88]

Sure, rodni_salmorejo, cheers

[@piktoresstudio]

SOOOO happy you liked our duel Ushoran VS Lauka Vai Emil! Léon is a very talented painter, we are very proud of him!!! This event was awesome, painters are so gifted, the minis were so beautiful (especially the Lucas nurgle^^). I was very happy to have been able to talk to you quickly Emil, even if it was difficult due to the crowd. Vi ses snart!

[@mistercizor]

Léon the goat! Team baguette with Piktores 🤣😎

[@samvnr2331]

Leon the goat

[@arquevol2934]

The goat

[@RobertN734]

26:52 That entry literally made me shout. That's amazing. That feels like a John Blanche composition. It's steeped with 40k's essence.

[@ProducerNepTune]

Is there anywhere I can find more photos of this online? I don't see any links or anything and can't seem to find it anywhere online.

[@fortlawrence7054]

I need more pictures of this. That's amazing. What's the artist's name? Emil's accent is hard for my ears to understand sometimes.

[@RealmPrints]

You guys got me back into the hobby after such a long time. Since then I've started my own Resin Printing business and have not even found the time to paint myself but always make sure to come check you guys out.

In 2004 I spent 3 months making my entry for Golden Deamon. Me and 2 friends I met at GW Gothenburg went to Birmingham with one of their fathers. This reminded me of many memories from that trip. I came home with a silver goblin for taking 2nd place in the Youngblood’s category. It’s one of my fondest memories. I never painted a mini after that. It’s cool to see how the models and techniques have changed over time.

[@necromancer0616]

That Warp Spider and Knight were AMAZING! Also, Lucas's Legion of the Damned mini was so cool! I think Lucas should do more work on it for next year's entries.

[@n6356583]

27:31 I love how Lukas' "What the fuck are you looking for!?" is from the soul. He wasn't joking at all and I'm here for it.

[@Svenskiii]

The swenglish accent is the best, had to rewatch that one.

[@demonrich]

Best friend

[@Lukas_squidsquad]

Frick yea❤

[@tay13666]

The key to enjoying a competition is to go into it not expecting to win. I've been doing it for 20 years in my modeling hobby at Wonderfest. I never think I am going to get anything. I put pieces on the table to show them off and let others see them in person. If I get any award, it's a bonus. The true fun is talking about all the entries with other people at the show. Learning how they did things, why they chose what they did. Those things inspire me to try new things and new approaches and keep the hobby fun. And I am left with great memories of the time spent with other hobbiests. I would be lying if I said I don't have any disappointment. Sure, I have pieces I hoped would do better than they did. But I move on quickly as I wasn't expecting to win. Some of my proudest pieces got nothing at a show, but I still love them anyway.

[@BarokaiRein]

Golden demon is more like an advertisement event, less of a painting competition. For example, if you compare it to basically anything else like Crystal Brush or Monte San Savino, it doesn't really hold up to any level of scrutiny as a painting competition. What matters by far the most is that your model is a good advertisement of the warhammer IP, which is why we've had way too many years where literally all winners of the singles category have been space marines. Colours have to be lore accurate, kitbashes have to be something GW wants to advertise, and after all of those things are approved, then, lastly, it comes down to the actual paint job.

[@Velcraft]

Yup, most of the winners have that Eavy Metal style, just done to perfection. Entries with 3d printed elements are also shunned from winning for the same reason - GW doesn't want people to recognise, or the artist to tell people where else they can go to buy the stuff used in the piece.

[@Yen-pg3yd]

​@@Velcraft the 3d printing rules were implemented after someone put in a piece that had large parts scanned and then 3d printed to get a mirrorlike appearence.

[@leichtmeister]

​@@Yen-pg3ydWhich is solely a business decision and really stupid. The piece was awesome and the artist put huge efforts into it.

[@MrZangetsu1997]

I always love how much detail you guys put into your projects, I agree that judging should be completely transparent or should be completely hidden, it's not fair to anyone otherwise, there's so many entries that are beautifully painted that just don't get the recognition they deserve, I can easily spend 60 hrs painting a space marine, but don't have the skill to paint to golden demon standard yet, to see this many minis at such a high standard is amazing, all of the painters in KZbin and social media inspire me to keep pushing my techniques, once in a while I try something new and I'm often surprised by the results, good luck for next year

[@TehJumpingJawa]

Ha, your zoom in of Josh's piece had me thinking it was a flat painting; a "but where's the mini?!?" moment.

[@chkminis]

Thank you so much for the mention guys, its means a world! I hope next time we meet we got more time to chat!

[@rickclark6700]

I think the biggest win for you two is how many new people you bring to the hobby, regardless of Golden Demon awards. You two are winning and have contributed to more peoples lives than you can understand. It's a win, win, and much more valuable than an award.

[@hollandx2]

I have to wonder how much attention things like the new SM2 game have brought.

[@lrh5206]

From where I sit, even having the confidence in your own painting to submit a Golden Demon entry makes you a winner :)

[@EatTheMarxists]

I want to create a contest for the most poorly painted minis - I’d win each and every contest!

[@wornbristlestudio2442]

Hey guys! Great video, was lovely to meet you both and to compete with Lukas in AOS single! Thanks for showing my mini 👊 Anthony

[@khor11]

@Squidmar Miniatures. Please come to Poland for the Kontrast miniature painting festival next year! In my opinion, the organization, judging, and entries completely blow Golden Demon out of the water. And it’s not just focused on Warhammer. You’ll be shocked... but in a good way! ;)

[@redy3tigames]

Sounds like you have to come to Adepticon in the USA this year to enter the pirate giant.......

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

Easy

[@MRGunbee1]

I think all participants should be very proud of their entries. There were so many wonderful entries that definitely inspired other hobbyists. I am still far away from such painting skills. But I am motivated by this year's entries to improve mine and to challenge also you guys some day. It can't be a problem with the colors. I'm equipped with three sets of the best colors, right? If not, Lukas will probably have to send me some cookies to make up for it 😉

[@brianeno608]

Heres an idea, if you can not beat em, join em... Or like, the Golden Squid? No idea how many tentacles squids have but like...8 different trophies or pins? Would be great to have another painting comp. Could just make it photos or a streaming event?

[@tannerharris7790]

That would actually be sick. And they have 10 tentacles. But a 'squidmar' may have more may have less 🤷‍♂️

[@eewweeppkk]

​@@tannerharris7790They have 2 tentacles and 8 arms actually!

[@JackJolleboi]

Why not the Gold Kraken or something xD

[@Skypact]

It was amazing meeting you there guys 😀 You are absolutely right about the sticker thing....

[@Shini122]

Hey guys not to alarm you but at about 2:36 in there appears to be a child ninja stealing your paints!

[@Thirteenrats13]

I was there at the golden demon too! Unfortunately i didn't win anything with my belial but meeting you two made my entire experience at the golden demon 1000× better than it was before.

[@Hammerx3]

Meeting you guys made this Golden Demon worth it! Thanks for letting me talking to you guys and briefly unintended letting my mini in to your video🥳

[@RuffStuff420]

The real problem with golden demon is people like Lucas. No offense, but when you enter models you know won't win you just add more work for them to do, thats why they do it like the do it, it's the quick and dirty way. Visually sort them. SHOULD they do it differently? Of course, they should give every entry a unique item number and use a spread sheet to track where they are in the competition. But that adds a lot of time to the process compared to how they do it and that simply isn't time they have.

[@tando6266]

It really wouldnt though, Just give each entry a barcode and scan it each time. Really easy to impliment, but this is GW.

[@EatTheMarxists]

So the judges really go over all of the entries in like one day? How is that even possible? What would that be - like ten seconds to judge each entry? I’m sure that the judges know what they’re looking for, but that just sounds improbable as crap!

[@padanfain7466]

That Arnau Lazaro Diorama is just beautiful. I absolutely love it.

[@Patchimus]

This was a pretty level-headed reaction all things considered! I was worried it would be more of a rant, and at the end of the day competitions like these must be so hard to judge with so many entries

[@ZobOg420]

just ordered my squidmar paint set and wet pallet bundle. alll the way to California. cant wait for it to get here!

[@lipHs1]

I hope to see more of these golden demon projetcts in the future! I know its really hard and time consuming but at the same time is really cool to watch! Like 👍

[@grapetonenatches186]

I wonder how the winners feel about all of this. To win and see a bunch of videos about how the competition was flawed. This is the third video of this type I have seen today.

[@BittermanAndy]

Agreed.

[@toddmcfarland7752]

Great Video guys. Thanks for staying positive, even in the face of adversity....which is a good lesson in all parts of life. Congrats on your prizing, always appreciate your stuff.

[@straycatt1313]

Yours is the third video I have seen regarding Essen, and I was so pleased to see a reasonable reaction to the competition. For reference, I am a Demon competitor from the early 2000s in the US, and a lot of the issues you bring up have been plaquing the competition since at least that long ago. GW has never been particularly good about hiding their judging decisions before hand, even when it was a one day event. So for it to be obvious during a multiple day event is no surprise to me. I was happy to see you talking about the models, as they appeared in the cases. The other videos I watched focused on how the models looked in glamour shots, not how they appeared on the day, in the case. You talked about wanting to know more about the judges subjective criteria, but that is a trap. If you focus on actual, or perceived, judging criteria, (i.e. what models do the judges like) you can end up killing creativity and uniqueness, which should always serve you well. Otherwise, you are just painting to win, and where is the fun in that. Especially if you do not win anything. I have always felt that these kind of events are an opportunity to put your best foot forward (painting wise), and meet and hang out with some of the best painters around. Because of that, I always had a good time, whether I walked away with a trophy or not. It seems to me, you two approached it (intentionally or otherwise) with the same intent, and were able to enjoy yourselves because of that.

[@willthorson4543]

I have to clap back at one thing. You have to do whatever you are doing for a show. You know the standards are high, then you have to meet those standards. You might win, you might not. The thing about finishing below gold? Whose piece do you replace it with? That's beyond hard unless it is so obvious ( IPMS US, 2023) everyone can argue all they want about not winning, but who do you replace that won?

[@straycatt1313]

@@willthorson4543 I don't disagree with any of your points exactly, but I feel like you are responding to a different post. You should absolutely push yourself to meet the highest standard you can, regardless of the standard of the show. If your highest standard exceeds the general standard of the show, you will likely win accolades. If your highest standard is lower than the general standard, you are less likely to win accolades. But nothing is guaranteed, as judging, by its nature, is subjective,

[@RowdiesFan1]

26:52 that epic scale piece is INCREDIBLE to me. Amazing idea and execution

[@GaryOshust]

You guys are awesome and I'm sorry you didn't do better. As a veteran of the Demon here in the US, the key word is "Subjective" and you guys said it. In 2002 I had made it to the honorable mention shelf with a Sister's of Battle bike squad. Not exactly a winner, but I could see the Sword in my hand. I went to the judges after the awards were out and asked for pointers on what I could do better and I listened carefully. 03 came around and I had taken all the pointers in had and entered a SOB Seraphim in Inquisitor scale. The "Large Scale" category was missing so I had to enter in the "Open Competition" which was densely packed and with some very heavy hitters. But I felt confident, as everyone who saw my entry were telling me it was sure to place. Well after a game or two on the floor I came back to find my girl on the rejects shelf. Man did that hurt! Still I went and swallowed my pride and took her to Gav Thorpe for pointers. He was super nice. He didn't understand why I didn't do better either and couldn't remember seeing it during judging. How SUBJECTIVE is that, he never even saw my entry. I thanked him and went outside for some fresh air. There was a young boy outside with his mom and he was super upset at loosing the Young Bloods category. I pulled my figure out and told him that I lost too. I said to him it's good to compete, but not to worry about if he had won or lost. That it's more important to enjoy the making, creating and striving to do better, as that is the real magic of this hobby. He was more amazed that I lost too that he felt a little better. So everyone should try their hand at the Demon, but know if you don't win that's alright too. I never did win the Slayer Sword, but I have won other competitions and have enjoyed a career as a Sculptor and model maker and the latter part far outweighs any award.

[@Wolfineer_]

Daaaamn that Epic black & white entry! :o

[@TheRoamingbison]

There were so many great entries and I enjoy the videos discussing the ones that other artists liked, whether or not they got a trophy. I'm looking forward to seeing you guys at LVO this coming year! There's going to be so many great artists. Even if you don't play competitive Warhammer there's going to be a ton of hobby stuff.

[@stewarts8597]

The amount of talent that enters this contest is off the charts including you guys

[@frazerbaker6089]

I’m so excited to see this big pirate with lots of old sailor tattoos. Have you already done a video of it being finished?

[@TheMiniJunkie]

Great coverage of the event - and really funny to boot 😂. The snub of Richard Gray’s entry is utterly baffling.

[@Resuhrrect]

Love your content. Keep it up.

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

Appreciate it!

[@Beynbio]

i was heccin disappointed Nils never got any judgement on his entry. The guy's a fantastic hobbyist (and got me into 3d printing when i was a student of his!)

[@RoboticDragon]

Competitions are always hard to judge. People get upset they cant bend the rules, they get upset the rules are too strict, they get upset they dont win. It happens and there is no real big deal there, it is what it is. On to the next one.

[@jorgenavasalejo]

This is probably the most constructive and common-sense video I've seen in the last few days about what happened at the Golden Demon. Congratulations guys, it's a pleasure both to watch and listen to you, which, being a channel about miniature painting, is quite fascinating.

[@darkseas3846]

Zumitito moaned like a child on his video and was very unprofessional and showed he’s just a bad looser

[@jthescruff]

Great video lads! I agree, that Richard Grey mini was absolutely ridiculous and Emil's paintjob was superb too!

[@thatepicwizardguy]

The sticker system is stupid. What they SHOULD do is label them by category (letter) and # of the entry in that category. then they can just have a master sheet which NOBODY SEES where they do their deliberation, narrowing down and ultimately pick what they pick. the sticker system is SOOOOOO bad it's mindblowing... I came up with a better system during this video than they've come up with for years? what the hell man lol somebody hire me EDIT: there were a TON of amazing entries btw. really amazing stuff and having so many entries is great! hopefully the experience didn't turn too many people away...

[@Drerrawyn]

I'm glad I've had the chance to see this piece at 25:49 in person as it is exposed in my LGS in Grenoble, France, truly a masterpiece

[@cybersquig]

I won a couple of gd trophies nearly 20 years ago. Two things: 1. It's amazing how similar the experience is now compared with then. I could certainly tell some stories! 2. The difference the internet and in particular social media has made is big. You aren't going to golden demon to discover new techniques in the same way any more. However, all amazing entries and it's great to highlight some which may not have gotten an award, but were awesome anyway.

[@OldenDemon]

Great to see Svens Olden Demon entry turn up, it was pretty amazing

[@tando6266]

People just need to accept the simple truth. This is 10% competition and 90% a marketing opportunity. The sooner people realize that they happier they will be as it perfectly explains why this keeps happening at the event.

[@KrayZieTyler]

I'm not a painting awards veteran, but I am a car show veteran and I can say this: If you want an award, save yourself the time and effort, just go buy yourself one. Competing should be done for the fun of it, and it doesn't matter how good your car (or mini in this case) looks, or the audience approval of it, what matters is how the judges feel. I understand the emotions involved firsthand, but whining about the results changes nothing and just ruins the event for you. Focus instead on the fun times and great people you meet, and eventually you won't even care about winning.

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

100% great attitude

[@Loli-Knight]

I mean, you definitely should always go into a competition (especially an artistic one) for the sake of fun, but it's pretty much unanimous that the judging for this one was all sorts of borked. Peopled from the highest to lowest level of skill and competitiveness agree on this one. There just weren't enough judges, and the system used isn't particularly great either.

[@ManamindEU]

Greetings from germany. Loved to see a coverage of everything

[@jamesbuntain4772]

28:35 that is some incredible envisionin of Tzeetnch chaos - I want that Sorceror so badly myself! Amazing work guys, and I hope you didin't get TOO many cookies

[@brabopainter]

Nice video guys, Heard a lot about GD and have seen many pieces you told about, again in our competition, SMC (Scale Model Challenge) in the Netherlands. Also the famous Golum and winners of GD Spiel and ex GD winners. So I invite you to come to the Netherlands where your creativity is appreciated. Keep making these kind of videos, love it!!

[@dennism.2976]

It was an absolute pleasure meeting you guys!

[@corbincompton2966]

You guys are amazing watching your videos has made me so much better at painting my minis you guys gave me a ton of inspiration for my tau army I was painting during the time you guys were doing the manta and the big diorama for it loved the whole idea and have been working nonstop for hours a day to turn my minis into amazing works of art

[@FroggyPhD]

Super tough this year with all the amazing entries! Was lovely to meet you both too

[@lekaarribou]

26:54 I legit believed this was a painting, not a sculpture ahah

[@robert2pkt0]

Sometimes life happens! Thanks for sharing.

[@odin9338]

I BOUGHT THE PAINTS!!! thankl you

[@svelle37]

Thanks for such a level headed retro on the competition. I totally agree with your points about the early "reorganizing" of the minis and in general I feel like the cabinets were one of the biggest downsides of the event. I'm not sure *how* exactly to improve that, but it should be improved in some way for next year.

[@eloquentsarcasm]

Entered my one and only GD way back 25 years ago. I had won a few local contests, and had a painting/sculpting biz so figured I'd give it a shot. Didn't win a single thing, BUT I got to meet a bunch of fellow Moderators from the Bolter & Chainsword that I'd known online for years, and best of all, got to meet and talk with Jes Goodwin for a good while. I still have his artbook I got signed, and learning a bit about how his mind worked when coming up with sculpting concepts was awesome. Your views on the judging is spot on, I saw minis that were mindblowing, others that were just "meh", and on the surface which ones went forward seemed utterly arbitrary. Some people seemed to be able to flaunt the rules and got praised while people who tried to follow every regulation were knocked out immediately. Art is subjective, for better or worse, and it's the judges who decide, not us. You guys had the right mindset, you went to enjoy the experience and meet people. Jes has been my sculpting inspiration since I was a kid, every time a new sculpt from him came out (even if it wasn't for an army I played) I HAD to buy and paint one. Getting to actually meet and talk to him was the highlight of the whole experience.

[@aurel-tk]

What truly amazed me is how you took 5 minutes to speak to me, showing your preferred mini and talking about your entry. Me a nobody ... Thanks Emil !

[@aurel-tk]

One thing that really bothered me was the quality of the shelves. 2 lights on top, with bad mini placement to let light go through multiple levels is just a lack of respect for the painter. One led bar on each level is not too much too ask for a multi millions $ company.

[@jeffhunter12]

Amazing video, it was really cool hearing about both your experiences at the convention and the contest itself.

[@crepyplays5517]

Ive been whaiting for someone to mention the golum model so it made my day too see you put him on the top of the list

[@bornincrimson]

Comparison is the thief of joy in these competitions. It's awesome to get awarded but even if you don't, enjoy the process of painting and the art you have created! Plus you can always enter the GD pieces into other competitions like MPO which has a cool open system.

[@s_shellyeah]

You guys are amazing, thanks!

[@schaaf9637]

Great insight. Got your color sets delivered this week, can’t wait to start painting your minis who came with it and then use it for my 2k Kroot army.

[@InquisitorTyrus]

Thanks it’s a good video ! I paint since 4 years now and i hope to be able to at least participate once with a mini … but I still have a lot to learn so will see probably not in 2025 but next year. Yeah why not !

[@wavecolors714]

very cool video and conclusions about the whole competition :). It was nice to meet you guys in person. Hope to see you at adepticon. ;)

[@BAbabyfaceMF]

Man since I started my journey in this hobby. I have wanted to do golden demon. Looking at these minis there is no way I will ever be able to paint this well

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

You can learn so much from just entering and looking and minis and talking to great painters. You gotta try!

[@jasonpiernikarczyk3884]

You guys should host your own painting competition! Not sure about the logistics but it could be fun

[@peregrinusfalco]

A 100% self sculpted or 3D printed miniature should never win the Golden Demon. This is a Games Workshop competition and the models should mostly consist of Games Workshop parts. If you wanna make your own minis there are many other competitions for that. The Gollum miniature was 100% 3D designed/printed. So absolutely the right descision from the jury

[@WarHogz]

Spot on. If people don’t read the rules, you can’t then blame the judges if you don’t win.

[@cptant7610]

What about the open category?

[@leichtmeister]

You are wrong

[@peregrinusfalco]

@@cptant7610 Golden Demon is made by a company that sells miniatures. They do not sell 3D printers^^ In the end the Golden Demon is made for selling more of their miniatures and not to encourage people to buy 3D printer

[@graysaltine6035]

The Gollum mini was a CAD rework of a licensed LOTR Games Workshop mini, so _not_ "100% 3D designed" as you put it. He literally just wanted to change the pose of the original mini. Because of the nature of the licensing agreement from the LOTR IP holders, the rules around converted and re-imagined minis are a lot stricter for that specific category. It wasn't even a case of judge's discretion at that point but rather legal implications and copyright infringement because GW do not own LOTR the same way they own Warhammer. You're entitled to your own perspective but you really don't have to be so arrogant and make false allusions to objectivity with your comment, as his mini could not exist without the original and there is a _very_ good chance would not have been disqualified if it were a Warhammer piece in any other category.

[@BitzboxTV]

The standard of the winners just gets higher with each competition but I agree that certain entries definitely deserved better placing

[@greyshadedminis]

Looked like an awesome atmosphere. Everyone should be proud of themselves, no matter if they win or lose

[@knightsljx]

if a competition about only painting skills is the objective, everyone should get the same mini and the same colour scheme and only an unpainted standard base allowed. but it would also be super boring from a marketing perspective. which is exactly what Golden Demon is, a marketing exercise.

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

They used to have a category like this. Everyone painted the same mini

[@ZlotyCK89]

Same vibe as competitive bridge (duplicate) - all play same hands. Best execution wins

[@gpm24cam]

One thought re: Richard Gray - the paint job is amazing, as is the conversion. But how much are the judges judging the design of the original minis, too? As I say, the conversion is superbly done, but it doesn't necessarily look like a Warp Spider, and those Swooping Hawk legs look a bit weird without wings holding them in that position. (I mean, they look weird even with wings. Sculpting plausible flying/landing forms has been an issue for GW for about forty years.) I can't help but think they were judging him for not having fixed a GW design that was broken from the outset...

[@JynksterDM]

GREAT COVERAGE! MY PAINTS AND BRUSH ARE showing up on MONDAY! WOOT!@

[@GreySectoid]

Lucas's Necromunda piece is awesome ☺dynamic poses are on my alley

[@Lkun]

Was there on the sunday, i heard quite a bit of sticker Discussion while checking out the entries. Fully agree that they need to either open it up or just hide all of the process. Also photographed the Gollum cause it was amazing!

[@Tclans]

27:06 wait a second, he is rowing forward 😄

[@skrittar82]

You made me laugh so hard for the epic category LOL

[@akindofmusic]

I was broadly comfortable with the results, but man, Pawel Makuch's entry in Diorama and Duel was my Slayer Sword choice. Absolutely incredible! 😍

[@LaserPingu]

The Space Marine epic diorama at 27:02 has a big mold line running up one of the pillars holding up the bridge, that might have something to do with the placement it got. Regardless, what a piece!

[@adrnprada]

Zumikito getting robbed, oh boy... That was brutal. With or without new stickers, this hobby is the best one in the world. Can't wait to get out of the office and fly home to continue painting!! Thanks for another nice piece of content. I hope I will meet you both one day. Cheers.

[@cormak777]

'What the fuck are you looking for' sums up the judging perfectly

[@newfenrisrailroad621]

want to say Ilove your work guys and have takin insperation to inprove my painting from watching your videos. Also i love my squigmar evolution 2024 and use it more than the iwata eclipse i started painting with.

[@gmpbuilder]

You guys make me laugh. Someday I'd like to be able to shake your hands. Keep up the videos.

[@cullenasaro2229]

I’ve had the pleasure to meet and hang out with Brent before. Super nice guy.

[@Taich0u]

I don’t enter painting comps, but I do enter cosplay ones and I’m willing to bet they’re grading the same way here. The gist is that cosplay comps always grade on three things: accuracy, number/complexity of techniques, and execution. You need to nail all three to place. For GD, I’m guessing they want to see multiple difficult painting techniques executed flawlessly in a style that matches the official GW box art. The winners all seem to fit that description. The bummer with comps is that they always reward people who tailor to the criteria over people who don’t get how the contests work. It always results in absolutely incredible entries getting snubbed for reasons that don’t make sense to outside observers.

[@irmiwolf]

I mean it kinda makes sense if the judged on this list of criteria, but they should make it official. Its stupid to have a competition nobody knows how it is graded.

[@MultiTequilaSunrise]

I won 3rd place at a painting contest at a small GW store many years ago. The losers were so toxic and singled my army out to shit on so much, that I ended up throwing away the award and walking away from the hobby for nearly ten years. I only came back when my son started to take interest, and for the most part I'm encountering a much more mature and uplifting set of players.

[@smokez89]

Great video boys, and great minis!!!