I X-rayed my Circuit Board

[@BPSspace]

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[@StupidGuy1125]

Hi

[@mdobilas]

You got me, I ordered a pen 👏👏

[@john_in_phoenix]

I would seriously like to receive one of those pens for Christmas.

[@jonslg240]

14:30 it's amazing how that density distribution looks almost exactly like the sun Also the way they use conical/parabolic shapes during the stage/charge changes is pretty neat

[@penguiin12]

do you think you could X-ray deez nuts?

[@LafayetteSystems]

Fun fact: if you try and sneak your rocket into your medical X-rays you get invited to leave the hospital

[@petergerdes1094]

Not if you get it stuck inside you first!

[@chrishendricks5937]

@@petergerdes1094oh no

[@nospoiler9550]

@@petergerdes1094this is what i call a pro gamer move.

[@_adamalfath]

Better than being promoted to a patient

[@ClAddict]

That’s why rockets have flared fins at the base

[@Its-Just-Zip]

0:45 why even go all the way to lumifield, the TSA just gave you your scans right there 😂

[@Space_Shot]

Damn boi

[@NewtoRah]

I kind of love Lumafield's marketing strategy of just inviting youtubers to their office and throw whatever they want into a machine. They don't have to give you any marketing material or anything because the results are just so cool that everyone I've seen thats done it just loves the scans they get. And the people who would be part of the purchasing decision for getting one of these are absolutely the type of people that watch nerdy rocketry videos

[@Christiaan-qj8fi]

100% lol, I know who to go to if I want some cool scans lol

[@ASAVSP]

Best part is it's actually a really good product

[@JimOHalloran]

Funny thing is before Joe even mentioned the name of the company I was wondering if it was Lumafield, the guys who CT'ed some stuff for Adam Savage a while ago. So I'm probably never going to be a decision maker on the purchase of one of these machines, but I know who to call! If that's their strategy, then it's working.

[@josuelservin]

What other brands of CT scanners are out there? This is the only one I know of by name, so I can say their marketing strategy has worked magnificently to bring forth the existence of their product to all the nerds here on KZbin, and I for one love it

[@wouldntyaliktono]

This dude transformed his music degree into one of the most technically impressive aerospace engineering channels on KZbin.

[@flying0graysons]

He could have a hell of a career as a professional host/speaker. Love his videos.

[@pietervande]

Never forget that he carbonated milk along the way. 🫡

[@Geerice]

@@pietervande That was him!?

[@pietervande]

@@Geerice kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6ewZ36ed5eco9Usi=gLDGRDomRylDTE9B

[@thefantasyforge5015]

0:45 KZbinrs really are TSA’s worst nightmare, although finding half a missile in someone’s carry-on luggage sure would make the TSA staff’s shift more interesting.

[@Space_Shot]

They got some work after a long time

[@chicken_punk_pie]

I'm so excited for No Effort November! Yes please do it

[@BrainiacManiac142]

Almost as good as locktober

[@sammaldonado5931]

those no-effort november videos will be like Thechnology connections? which usually have the same or more effort? yes please.

[@gsuberland]

90 degree traces are mostly a problem from the old days, relating to etchant pooling in the sharp internal corners and causing over-etching. Sharp internal corners can be a very slight DFM concern when you're pushing your board fab's trace width limits, but otherwise it's fine. For high speed we don't usually care that much, and mostly just don't do it because there's no reason to, although it can start to matter a little bit if you're doing 100Gbps+ or doing mmWave stuff. At that point you actually tend to intentionally use weird angles (e.g. traces in an 11° zigzag) to mitigate the variance in dielectric constant from the fiberglass weave, for very tight impedance control. If you want to see this trick used in practice, have a dig through Robert Feranec's videos for the series he does analysing an open source dual-Xeon server motherboard. It's interesting that you brought up the issue of solder voids on ground pads, because there's a trick for that: windowpanes. Rather than using a single paste aperture on the large ground pads, you remove the default paste aperture and instead draw multiple smaller squares in a "windowpane" pattern on your paste layer. This vastly improves paste uniformity during application, and helps reduce voids.

[@dennydravis8758]

To add, worrying about trace shape while not having a matched ground plane is really worrying about putting the cart before the horse. Gotta have a tightly coupled return path for that current first before you can worry about what kinds of shapes you're making in the copper

[@bjf10]

90° angles are a big problem for high voltage, fwiw. And yes, we do use PCBs in some applications, even up to tens of kV.

[@gsuberland]

@@bjf10 yeah, I was thinking about mentioning that but didn't bother since it's not something Joe is likely to run into. But for reference it's due to electric field density peaking in sharp outer corners.

[@gsuberland]

@@dennydravis8758 yup, 100%. you need a return path for those forward currents. I'd highly recommend everyone to watch "The Extreme Importance of PC Board Stackup" by Rick Hartley at Altium Live a few years ago. Best electronics talk I've ever seen and it completely changed how I do PCB layout and how I think about SI/EMI.

[@bjf10]

@@gsuberland indeed! We spend a *lot* of time thinking about electric field gradients in HV-land. :)

[@PollokPoochesDogWalking]

the last portion of this video could just be titled 'things oceangate should have done'

[@geofrancis2001]

That was my first thought in the first 2 minutes.

[@marksinclair701]

Wonder if they can scan that large an object?

[@BIG-ES-]

@@marksinclair701 Look into Nondestructive testing, they use high energy x-ray (linear accelerator) to test solid rocket boosters, or other massive critical parts. Definitely can scan almost anything

[@Codebreakerblue]

16:20 my name is Ava, and I reflexively thought "wait what did I do??"

[@MatthijsvanDuin]

tsk, can't believe you were just sleeping on the job ;-)

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

The "it's safer to stand next to the machine" bit reminds me of Randall Munroe's comment that (when things are working correctly) the radiation level in some parts of a spent nuclear fuel pool is lower than the average level on the surface of the earth.

[@Im1Thing2Do]

in general underwater is usually less radiation dense than the background radiation as water is really good at stopping/absorbing EM Waves (iirc like 50% reduction per half meter)

[@0x5DA]

this is just a water thing, not a reactor pool thing (whereas in the video, it's specifically being near the machine that reduces background radiation)

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

@@0x5DA no, it's just a lead thing, not a CT machine thing. (Which is to say, in both cases you have a source of radiation and, because of that, something that's really good at containing it is wrapped around that source.)

[@0x5DA]

@@benjaminshropshire2900 uh well yes, but there are less machines bulk wrapped in lead than there are bodies of water, which was perhaps my point

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

@@0x5DA but in both cases being to considered, the reason it's there is to shield from a radiation source and that source is the the reason the result is interesting, not what choice of shielding is used.

[@pigrew]

Ground planes are very important for high-speed or high-current PCB designs. The "cheat" these days is to use a 4-layer PCB, where the center two layers are solid grounds (no routed signals). This ensures that there's a good ground path alongside every signal on the PCB. (You do need to add a significant number of vias to stitch the ground planes together, preferably with a ground via next to every power/signal via). It's a great video. X-ray is commonly used in PCB manufacturing/assembly, though normally only 2D and not CT. You opened with talking about the organization of components on front vs back. The most important thing is the PCBA's mechanical interface to the enclosure/rocket. Place your connectors and large components in the most mechanically convenient locations, and then shift around the other components to fit. That said, it's common to put all SMD components on one side of the board, to reduce assembly cost.

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

"No effort video in November" would be vastly preferable to "No video in November".

[@bjf10]

I once shut down a TSA checkpoint by taking my lab's portable centrifuge through. This was not long after the invasion of Iraq, so uh, yeah. My advisor had made me promise to carry it on my lap, as it was our most expensive piece of equipment. The TSA bros were not amused.

[@Bigyellowcube]

0:14 that came out of nowhere, I nearly spat out my drink

[@storminmormin14]

I’m proud of you Joe for refraining from Ocean Gate jokes.

[@datadrivendave]

"in the interest of transparency" :D

[@think-some-time]

I've looked at Lumafield stuff before. The CTs are as cool, of course - all CTs are! I don't care for their business model though. A few (possibly pedantic) corrections, just because this kind of thing is my day job: The IC packaging is not going to be ceramic, but a plastic resin. That's how they get it to flow around the silicon die! The connections between the leadframe and the silicon die are not airwires, but gold bond wires. 90 degree angles don't do anything to the vast majority of signals. Some designers start ranting about acid traps and conductive filaments, but mostly they just don't look nice, so people don't use them!

[@AndrewZonenberg]

IC packaging is actually a fairly complex composite material itself. You have silica microspheres of various sizes as filler with CTE closely matched to the silicon, epoxy resin to bind it all together, and various other additives like carbon black to make it opaque (transistors can act like itty bitty solar cells when illuminated and cause the chip to malfunction, one of the Raspberry Pi's had problems using chips with exposed silicon that would make the board crash when you took a flash photo of it). Also, gold bond wires are falling out of favor these days due to cost. Gold ball bonds (and aluminum wedge bonds) do still exist, but copper ball bonding is by far the most common in new products.

[@Scrogan]

The 45 degree thing is basically a myth, even at low GHz frequencies it doesn’t make a difference at such a small scale. If you care about aesthetics, use Mitxela’s PCB trace melting plug-in.

[@calebwashburn38]

2:42 As someone who has designed quite a few high frequency PCBs, heres my 0.02. Traces with sharp corners really dont matter until you get above 100MHz. I say this as someone who religiously adheres to the 45 degree rule: the main reason is just for packing density and aesthetics. I think people imagine traces like cars around a racetrack, which is not at all how electrons travel. Signal reflections happen whenever theres a change in impedance - if you're REALLY worried about right angles, you better make sure you dont have any parallel traces (capacitive coupling) and a tight return path. That right angle in your I2C bus isn't an issue. The real killer is bad layer stackups with return paths all over the place. I see engineers with decades of experience making this mistake, its actually pretty insane how few layouts I see are actually done correctly. Luckily, mostly digital designs like a flight computer are pretty forgiving, so in this case it probably doesn't matter too much. It's just frustrating when I see other engineers obsessing over inconsequential aesthetic details, and completely ignorant of the things that *actually* make a difference.

[@texastaterbug5395]

It made my day to get home from reading CT scans on humans to get to see a CT scan of a rocket motor!!!

[@nathanielthomson2860]

its a dam good day when bps posts

[@blauesKopftuch]

8:08 i see four 90° T-junctions at the top where there are 4 sqare solderpads in a sqare formation. It's just like shouting down a hallway with a 90° T-junction, you will get a terrible echo. That's why one should not only avoid 90° corners but 90° t-junctions aswell, you want the RF energy to follow the traces and not reflect back at you. If you look at the bottom left where the wide high-current trace is, that's a beautiful 45° junction.

[@Shure_Lock]

Man, that part about mailing explosives really brought me back. Another SLAMMER from joe "the biz" barnard!

[@amogusenjoyer]

Amazing to see NDT on your channel! I work on ultrasounds and EC NDT software but this also looks amazing. The resolution is awesome!

[@furl_w]

These scans are always a real treat, love the failure analysis especially.

[@AmorDeae]

0:33 heh, transparency, I see what you did there

[@StormBurnX]

No-effort November sounds like an actually really interesting idea - not even for the obvious reasons of "hooray, more content from someone who is already hella busy" but also just a peek into the more casual, realtime side of things rather than the highly-produced and scripted content. Sometimes I find thoughtdumping/vlogging style videos about projects to be far more interesting than anything scripted.

[@OrangeDurito]

He does that often on Patreon and on his other channel but on this one, even when Joseph Bizzlington says it would be no-effort November, you know it’ll still be a polished product.

[@StormBurnX]

@@OrangeDurito I feel like his other channel is less 'low effort' and more 'leftovers/outtakes', but yeah I did kinda assume his paid patreon feed would be more churning out content / realtime updates rather than highly-produced stuff

[@AndrewZonenberg]

You should try and find a place that offers scanning acoustic microscopy services and see how well that works on your phenolic and composite parts. It's supposed to be really good at finding subtle delaminations and voids that haven't opened up enough to be visible in X-ray / CT.

[@Core-Frisk]

You’ve really helped me start in model rocketry, thank you

[@bjf10]

If you're worried about your trace angles and stuff, just look at an old PCB when they were layed out by hand. All the compound curves! Angles galore! It's fine.

[@T_Mo271]

Hand layouts at 2:1 using tape and decals. Ah, memories.

[@kelseycochrane3103]

im a medical CT tech at a trauma lvl 2 hospital, this is the coolest video tangentially related to my job ive ever seen. I wonder if Lumafield is hiring CT techs lol

[@zebo-the-fat]

May be worth a quick email!

[@LewisKnaggs]

I don't want to be in meat rocket

[@icannotfly]

i kinda do but i'm here anyway

[@custos3249]

You already are every time you let one rip

[@judet2992]

@@custos3249huh yeah I guess the constructing anus and diverging asscheecks makes a crude De Leval Nozzle, bad TWR tho

[@OrangeDurito]

@@judet2992*constricting but hahahaha 😂😂

[@custos3249]

@@judet2992 Depends on your TB factor, but that gets into the fine differences between hybrid and solid propellants per Taco Bell factor.

[@HaydenManka]

No effort November please!!

[@actionzacked]

I'm not even in the rocket game, but I love nerding out. Great content, Joe! I vote "Yes" for no effort November!

[@mattp422]

This radiologist thinks this is very, very cool.

[@maddogsDE42]

My buddy owns a NDI company in Kansas... I'm going to have to take advantage of this once I have some rockets built! Thanks for the inspiration and all the information!

[@nicks8377]

@BPSspace, if you're designing boards with RF signals, look into ground stitching. Long story short its like putting a faraday cage around your RF lines to isolate them from noise.

[@TheGreatWave4]

Hey Joe B! I had a question about thrust vector control rockets, and specifically your scout f landing. I was wondering if you were planning to release the software/code to the public along with a circuit board. I also have the very ambitious goal of propulsively landing a model rocket. I want to do this so that I can learn all of these skills, and hopefully feel accomplished and proud of my work after several years. Always a pleasure watching your videos!

[@nawakman]

this is insane technology right there, 3D density model could be so useful, i hope it'll come as commercial machines someday, can't wait for future tech it's mind blowing !!!

[@abdullahsabry6756]

RF Engineer here: You're making as what it seems to be a monopole antenna; this would indeed work best without a ground plane. Antennas which would benefit from a ground plane would be patch antennas (Aperature in general) which would only recieve from one half of the plane and be more directive. I think your approach of a monopole works best for this type of chip. Very interested seeing it!

[@KofiAsare0]

This is really awesome, thanks for sharing!

[@kendea]

This has to be the best investment they could have made, barring you getting a machine. Amazing collaboration between Luma and BPS.

[@Z3BES]

The main channel I wait for new episodes and watch right away. Love the series

[@matthewr759]

Yes for no effort November!!

[@sleepdeep305]

Duuuude your upload schedule has been on point these last couple of months. Loving every one of them!

[@empmachine]

Whoa Whoa Whoooa... you do all this w/o any (relevant.. well.. Music is pretty and vital for life, but doesn't lift rockets w/o help) school/background?? Damn dude.. respect!! You're a rocking rocket autodidact !

[@OrangeDurito]

He truly is! The range of skills this one person has is truly mind-boggling and almost all of those self-taught. Joe is an inspiration!

[@XunYunXiao]

The disney intro is just unexpected 😂 Let's just hope they won't sue you after few hours 😅

[@GuardianOz]

I had a friend that worked in Aircraft engineering. When he was X-raying parts he would sneak our questionable rock climbing gear into the edges of shot. Yes, we did find some cracks. We had one so bad it was just a tap on a table away from breaking in two. The cracks were to small to feel or see. Cool to see how far tech has changed in 20 yrs.

[@sthomas6369]

I wish this technology existed back in the early 1990's when I did my Master's Degree. We were impacting composites and using penetrant dye in a tiny hole to mark the broken/delaminated areas, then taking a 2-D simple X-ray (onto Polaroid film)!

[@spdcrzy]

This is also why making high quality composites can be done even at the high-end DIY level these days. The technology we have these days is actually insane.

[@ronboe6325]

Yup. This kinda stuff is pure gold. Thanks!

[@ElvianEmpire]

6:28 for BGA packages, there is no other way usually. you'll often have power and ground in the middle pads, so you route straight to vias and through the gnd/power plane(s), and have your decoupling on the back side.

[@leifhietala8074]

"...which TSA loved even less." I remember taking my RC stuff, batteries and motors and whatnot, through airport security in the 80s. I kept it in an ammo bag! The security guy at the scanner stepped closer and UNDID THE SNAP ON HIS HOLSTER. And then I reached quickly for the bag - BIG mistake. Ah, hobbies and airlines. Enjoy your future flights, Joe.

[@theelectricwalrus]

0:38 Vention extrusion! I've had relatively good experiences with them

[@Hydrazine1000]

_"In aerospace we call this non-destructive testing."_ @9:49 No, this is non-destructive _imaging._ And very, very cool at that too. NDT isn't limited to aerospace and includes ultrasonic inspection, eddy current inspection, magnetic particle inspection, liquid penetrant testing, radiological inspection, x-ray imaging and, if you're generous, Leeb hardness testing. That latter method _might_ leave a tiny little mark, so it isn't entirely non-destructive.

[@jacob_90s]

Great video. Reminds me of watching the USCSB's animations on industrial accidents.

[@markjarrodhughes]

Fun fact -- pull up a PCB from the 60's/70's/80's and you'll find the traces routed every which way. They only became straight lines when CAD based routing became a thing. The only thing that matters for high speed is the consistency of the surrounding copper.

[@PsychoKiller250]

0:22 So it is true, Music theory is as hard as rocket science

[@zZGhostCellZz]

0:35 "in the interest of transparency" nice 😂

[@Wulthrin]

mach tuah on that rocket at the end killed me

[@scottbruner9266]

0:39 I remember when Adam Savage went there and had his mechanical calculator scanned in that same machine. Lucky guys….

[@accueil750]

PLEASEE do no effort november ! i love that concept so much its hilarious

[@lrf_inc]

My fathers company once built ct-scanners for ndt. we have a working one standing around at our home so if you ever need to xray another motor let me know.

[@OrangeDurito]

That’s so cool! What’s the most interesting thing you have scanned with it?

[@colinbrazier8511]

That was great. Thanks for sharing Jo.

[@Gome.o]

A+ thumbnail game. J-bizzles stuck his hand in an lethal-dose radiation X-ray machine for that shot. Risking radiation like a legend!

[@Estes-o8v]

Great vid again. You need to make a large scale starship super heavy with clusters of vectoring motors on each stage

[@RealAndySkibba]

I want to be in a meat rocket. Also glad my $10 for feet pics means you can put out content like this.

[@BlankBrain]

In the 1960s, my dad was a physicist who worked on high energy x-ray systems. The systems used field emission and cold cathodes to generate x-ray pulses. One of the machines put out a 4 ns pulse, that if you were in the room, not in front of the beam, the scattered radiation would kill you. Rolls Royce bought them to x-ray jet engines. They were used by the military to take flash photos of bomb detonation. They took them out to the desert and set up two steel walls. The film was on the back of one steel wall, and the x-ray was on the back of the other. They were able to set the timing of the x-ray to fire at any phase of the detonation. After Starfish Prime, the units were used to simulate atomic detonations for hardening semiconductors and other materials. The unit used a Marx Surge pulse generator to generate a 2.5 MeV pulse. My dad designed the single crystal tungsten field emitters and emitter arrays. The field emitters were electrolytically sharpened to six atoms at the tip.

[@Francois_L_7933]

You definitely need to get a Coolidge tube and build your own x-ray machine 😉

[@HellboundHarry]

Legit my favorite KZbinr. I am not in this field, but I'm just a fascinated nerd. Thanks for schooling me! GUHBYE

[@Sevetamryn]

They should sponsor you big time. Yes, you got the opportunity to use exciting tech you usually don't have access ro. However, you should not underestimate the marketing value of this video for the company.

[@jhonbus]

0:33 "They did agree to pay for the flight ...in the interest of transparency" Heyyyoooooo! I see what you did there.

[@ChuckBaggett]

I lived in San Franciso. I don't recall calling it Frisco, but I called it San Fran.

[@nathanlee8483]

No Effort November sounds like the way to go. It'll coincide nicely with my No Shave November...

[@KendrickMui-y4z]

mach tuah sneap peak is funny lmao

[@OrangeDurito]

These scans are beautiful 😍😍 And your expert commentary makes this so enjoyable and informative. Thanks Joe!

[@Liamissocool]

Day 6 of asking for blue tape rocket 🚀

[@Dank_Lulu]

Comment for the algo. Also, the one thing that would be genuinely more satisfying than a good cross-section would be the X-ray.

[@nuclearumbrella5818]

Definitely interested in No effort November. And where's that Mach Tuah video?

[@AA-du1pt]

The 0 and 45 degree routing is mostly a convenience for the EDA software implementation point of view, there should actually be little to no difference in the signal integrity (a smooth track being a better choice rather than angles) for the MCU and speeds you are using, if you have signal integrity problems, a 90 degree angle is most probably not the culprit. You should have proper reference layers and nice decoupling etc. Tools like KiCAD even have round track extensions where you can turn your circuits angled traces into round ones with bezier curves

[@jonathantribble7013]

Its gonna be a great November for BPS Space viewers 😂

[@timaidley7801]

I wonder if the voids in the enclosure mentioned at around the 10:45 are actually shadows in the imaging?

[@xiphosura413]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, considering you can see shadowing in that area elsewhere too and they have a very weird shape all things considered. They're large enough that if real, I wouldn't be surprised if they rung when struck lol

[@TheJttv]

My college had just gotten a CT scanner not long before I graduated. I didnt get to use it much but man that thing was wild. Also this video does not do those models and the layer filtering you can do justice. You could get just the solder to show up if you wanted.

[@benashbaugh5982]

LTT bought one of those scanner. It is cool what it can scan

[@TexanMiror2]

Super interesting. Thank you!

[@wetbredloaf]

im working on a liquid rocket engine and man i love your stuff

[@oli_onion]

Linus tech tips have one of these machines that they use in evaluations of things. On their labs website they have the scans of various things like GPUs you can look out.

[@VideoGamerGuy]

I was really hoping this was a Linus Tech Tips Collab then. That'd be epic. Challenge Linus to make a tech based rocket 🤣

[@seldoon_nemar]

I'm sure the TSA loves when you bring things that have been around solid propellant though their _explosives detector_ I'm sure you know all the airpir explosive sniffing dogs 😂

[@BrandonJJackson]

When i saw your sexy skeleton hand, I clicked on the video right away, my man! LOL 🤣🤣

[@christopherleubner6633]

Quite a bit better than the cobbled togther rig used for x raying epoxy block power modules.

[@BazilYat]

We might, in 10 or 200 years time, be looking at the man who took a music degree and model rockets to the moon.

[@C-M-E]

After what I assume was a thorough screening of your prison wallet by TSA (kudos for getting that on board by the by), 3D CT scans could be a feature process all by itself. I especially like getting to watch them without having to pay for it first. 😁 Add: Not sure on your knowledge base with fractal pattern antennas for small form factor transmission equipment, but that's worth looking into if you ever run into difficulties where range and signal clarity become a recovery issue.

[@roelantvanderbos]

@9:50: Another Aerospace engineer here: Please call it NDI, non destructive inspection... Testing implies you physically do something to the part (loading, heating, operating...) without causing siginificant deterioration to the part...

[@ShaunakDe]

You were literally four blocks from my office (Capella Space). The next time you are up here, I'd be happy to give you a tour.

[@nasonguy]

That plastics company whining about not wanting to wrap the Phenolic that thick made me immediately think of certain composite submarine ventures and how they had major issues with warping and stuff….

[@Superkuh2]

Maybe those voids are just a computational artifact of the x-ray scan like the reflection lines are.

[@nobleshirley2775]

Peeped the Leatherman holster during the sponsor, respect

[@dingus153]

Hell yeah I love non destructive testing