IAM Institute of Advanced Motorists outcome experiences for motorcyclists of the UK. My stories...

[@MrB1967]

I did IAM back in the 90s, I can't remember much about it tbh. Just done RoSPA training and it was brilliant, there was no pressure at all, the main thing they preach is safety trumps everything. It's based on Roadcraft (which is for police riders of course) but by no means do they ride like they are on duty. I was told in no uncertain terms that progress does not mean full speed ahead and speed limits were not to be breached. I didn't meet any people as described in this upload, to be honest. Just great people, great training and an all round great experience.

[@49googie]

As a rider of some 47 years and an ex police man , you are 100 % right . Progress is for escorting VIP's . Proper riding is to ride with good concentration and defensively to avoid a collision . A simple trick is when in traffic look 3 cars ahead to see brake lights etc, because the 2 cars in front will be late to react to what you see ( usually distracted by the phone) . Kind Regards Robert

[@bankruptpensioner]

Now that's interesting, Robert, coming from an ex-policeman. It's a good way of explaining it regarding VIPs and makes sense. The advice given sounds common sense, actually, for normal riding, regardless of trying to progress. Thanks for the comment, very interesting.👍

[@btcbiker]

Well Said! I passed an IAM test and I fully agree with everything you have said, I have done some videos about this too. Also, you've gained a new subscriber here!

[@paulroberson7113]

I have no desire to ‘progress’ into an early grave. Completely agree with your thoughts on this.

[@bankruptpensioner]

😆 interesting way of looking at it regarding the grave. I thought it was time to share my experience experiences.👍

[@RedDragonUncaged]

I had a break from riding, a long one for marriage, kids etc., and when i got back on 2 wheels i lacked confidence, i wasn't enjoying it like i used to. So i did BikeSafe with the police and enrolled with IAM. It took me 4.5 months to pass. I learned a lot, developed useful skills and in that time i got my confidence back. I don't regard myself as any better than any other rider for it. I did the course for my own reasons and left the IAM once my objectives were reached. I encountered all sorts of people in the IAM, some good and some tossers. There is a clash of doctrine between making progress and riding your own ride ... you navigate this yourself as a thinking rider as you work out how much of their assessment, and the final test, is subjective. As with much in life, you get out what you put in. IAM has pros and cons, not all good, not all bad ... I'm glad i did it even though i didn't enjoy parts of it.

[@bankruptpensioner]

I agree Red, great points here. IAM is not all good or all bad.

[@Grumpy-Goblin]

I am conflicted on the IAM, I was really considering doing the course but I do watch a lot of videos on training and safety and in some of the IAM stuff I've seen I noticed a big emphasis was put on "making progress" rather than "riding within your limits". I found this worrying and from the things I've seen it does seem to be a thing where every opportunity to overtake must be made and every opportunity to travel at the maximum speed limit must be taken. I could be wrong but that is the impression I get and my own attitude is that there is no "safety reason" to travel at the max speed limit unless you are impeding other traffic and there is no "safety reason" to make an overtake if you are not in a hurry. I'm not saying the training is not good, or that there is not a lot of valuable stuff in there such as observations etc. but I just get the impression that too much emphasis seems to be placed on "making progress". I'm not a Police Officer, I ride for leisure, it is not a matter of life or death whether I arrive at my destination 5 minutes later than planned so I personally don't see the value in emphasising the speedelement.

[@49googie]

The best advice is go on a "Bike safe" police course, its cheap or maybe nothing ££ and ride like you normally would and the properly trained police man will point out your failings, without asking you a load of stupid questions. Trust me you will learn more in 30 minutes !. It will keep you alive.

[@AndrewSmalley-zo9sh]

Howdy again Richard Good honest video covering your opinion. I passed my IAM test in September and to be honest I'm very glad I've done it. I'm 49 but have only been riding big bikes for two years. I consider myself a bit of a bike noob so decided to take additional training. The reason being to make myself a better and more importantly a safer rider for myself and my partner who rides pillion with me 99% of the time. I don't consider myself a cut above the rest or anything. Although with any organisation you're going to have members who think they are something special I guess.You are correct the progress element is a part of the course and I've been taught that the hallmark of an IAM rider is about making "quiet efficency" when riding. I don't consider myself to be a particularly fast rider,nor do I aspire to be but I would say that I'm definitely a safer rider with a greater appreciation of what's going on around me and have much improved planning and observation now. Just my two cents. PS, I won't be un-subscribing either. 😉

[@bankruptpensioner]

Thanks for not unsubscribing Andrew😆. I truly believe in safety, and for motorcyclists, it's a must. It's good that you passed your IAM and that you have shared your thoughts on this subject. I used to ride fast on the road, but that stopped a long time ago. I just want to enjoy the ride. But I also want to be a safe ride for me and for other road users. I want people to look at me and admire what I'm riding, not see me as the stereotypical motorcyclist on the road, going too fast and overtaking it at every opportunity. Not that IAM promote over taking every vehicle in front of them, that's not what I'm saying. Good story and interesting for other readers. Thanks for the comment.👍

[@Bigbaldybear]

Totally agree Richard. I ride within my limits and no more, as I like being alive 😁 Those gloves really are great too btw 👍

[@bankruptpensioner]

Hi Scott, good to hear from you. I am the same, ride within my limits and just be safe on the road. Good to hear about the gloves. Have you been using the liners? Tell me your thoughts about the liners. I will see you soon.👍

[@Bigbaldybear]

@bankruptpensioner I think the liners on mine are sown in rather than separate Richard. They definitely feel like they're there and there's no issues with hot spots so maybe it's a slightly new design? 🤷🏻‍♂️ No complaints at all though, they're great gloves, especially for the price 👍

[@theodavies8754]

Overtake all you like. I'll be behind you at the next stop. Riding hard just flattens the rear tyre across the tread and wears the brakes. It's fine if you are already thinking about what bike you want next. It's not like they make the coffee when you set out, so enjoy the ride at your own pace and get one freshly made when you get there. Happy days from sunny Devon.

[@bankruptpensioner]

well said 👍

[@stefanomonte-t9z]

I thought I was alone in my view of IAM, a few years ago I joined the Kidderminster group, I was a confident capable rider of some 40 years experience at the time, yes I'd had a few offs in the past and learnt from them (pain is a good teacher), by the time I abandoned their doctrine they had turned me into a nervous twitchy rider, I recon IAM translates to I am mad, the last straw was dropping my blackbird on one of their ho so professional rides, I believe the pressure "to make good progress " isn't safe so that's my view Regards stef

[@bankruptpensioner]

hi Stefan, there you go - it is not just me. I'm no great rider - but I do enjoy a ride. My only other desire is to get home in one piece and with a dirty bike.

[@ColonelBandit]

@stefanomonte-t9z another rider who failed to pass the IAM test and blames the IAM rather then their own lack of ability - interesting that IAM and RoSPA courses all teach basef on Roadcraft which is the Police system

[@stefanomonte-t9z]

@@ColonelBandit I didn't fail I left , I didn't feel it was for me and wasn't enjoying it at all

[@ColonelBandit]

@@stefanomonte-t9z you didn't pass, so you failed - simple - own your own performance (or lack thereof) don't blame the system or those delivering training

[@RedDragonUncaged]

​@ColonelBandit that's a harsh, one sided verdict based on little information. I might say the IAM failed to keep Stef engaged which is hardly a successful outcome for them

[@AlienBumProbe]

Completely agree with you. I never understood this need to constantly make progress. Enjoy the ride at a safe pace, it’s less stressful.

[@bankruptpensioner]

It's so interesting that people have got a similar experience/thoughts👍

[@johnniewilliams4372]

Very interesting Richard.I agree with all you say.

[@ant25ify]

Interesting comments from the outside looking in. I've done the course and found it positive. Yes there is emphasis on making progress but not at the expense of safety. It's down to the individual rider and his interpretation I suppose.

[@nikoscosmos]

It's down to the observers that are advising you. There appears to be no consistency in standards across the IAM. After one of my observed rides I queried the breakneck speed mentioning that I preferred to ride at a speed from which I could stop within my vision..."oh, that's only for the textbooks " I was advised.

[@bankruptpensioner]

Fair point Ant :).

[@loftythesoftie8857]

Totally agree 50 years and counting on motorcycles with a few spills along the way. Making progress is a police term, when I did my police advanced driving course progression was king, to the civilian rider definitely not needed.

[@edwardsenesac]

It is wise to ride expectantly and cautiously. There could be anything in the road ahead! I ride in Miami city where few use signals, many are lost and most are uneducated. Seems that most drive selfishly for their own comfort. Police rarely use signals or stop at stop signs. I also got a pilot's license years ago: "aviate, navigate, communicate."

[@bankruptpensioner]

hi Edward, (useless info time - my eldest is called Edward - after Eddie Van Halen (RIP)). Couldn't agree more with you on this matter. I guess riding in Miami is like riding in London but just nicer weather. Lost, Selfish, and uneducated - I need to remember that for a future video on managing mother-in-laws :). The Police over here in the UK are quite polite, to be fair. When they have the blues flashing, they always slow down at the traffic lights etc. I should do a video on my regrets about flying - if only I got a short-term job (agreed upfront, of course) with old Pablo. I could have retired years ago :) only joking :/

[@JamesDougan-e3d]

You are right it is dangerous to drive with the mindset of you have to make progress .Progress means in reality driving like an prick and taking unnecessary risk well done for speaking out top man keep up the good work

[@ColonelBandit]

Sofa rider with zero experience

[@bankruptpensioner]

Thanks for the comment James, I shall try to keep up the voice of dooooooom :)

[@bankruptpensioner]

Mmmmm....... sofa surfer - they were the days living out of the back of a car :). Never heard the term sofa rider - I shall use that in a future video :) Thanks Colonel :)

[@mum-0217]

I think it's best to keep within the speed limits if you can. I think we all creep up a bit from time to time, often without noticing. On the other side of the coin, if there are people in front who are always trying to up the pace, then naturally you are tempted to increase your speed and hence, increase your risk. As for bends and brows of hills, it's always best to take it easy, as you say you can never be sure just what is around the corner!

[@bankruptpensioner]

well said ❤

[@Roy-cm1bh]

Alright Richard, very good topic. My pals and I were literally chatting about the IAM ‘disciples’. In our group of pals spanning over 40 years of riding , two did the course, one came back, made it known to everyone he was a IAM Roadsmart Member 🙄, speaking down to us like a traffic cop, advising me or us on what we were doing incorrectly and that magic word ‘progress’ (the moment you mentioned it I laughed my head off as that is what I heard non stop lol). He’s no longer with us as he with his IAM boring as hell pals now. My other pal only did it just to reduce his insurance, nothing more, he was moaning the course cost more than what he saved which was about £30😂, he’s the type to do things by the book to please whoever but once it’s done, he slips back to his old ways and cracks on, no issues with him. There are some of the riders who I have met that have or did a few sessions of the advanced that have some sense of superiority to other riders and roads users thinking they are traffic cops all of a sudden.

[@bankruptpensioner]

Thanks Roy. Interesting subject 😆. It is almost like indoctrination and, sadly, one starts to think in another (not right or wrong) way. Even worse when your mate picks another group to ride with 😥.

[@frankspeakmore7104]

Interesting chat. I don't subscribe to your channel but just came across this by chance. The very first chapter in the blue book is about attitude to riding/driving, and in my opinion is the most important. The rest revolves around skill levels and experience. Advanced motoring is very subjective. Many riders who pass feel they have to "show" they are advanced. There are so many videos on KZbin about advanced riding, most are utter rubbish. But to my eyes one does stand out, it's a strange name called "seaflyfisher". I think he is retired from police training. Watch his riding but mostly listen to his commentary which he does in real time, unlike others who add the commentary at a later stage, he tells you what he is doing and why. Just keep riding and enjoying it.

[@michaelcomerford5509]

Totaly agree . I did enjoy going out with the instructor great bloke and rider but as I am 69 been riding since i was 15 . My riding was totally diffrent from his he rode much to fast , I think be cause he never rode old school bikes , and todays bike have all the bells and and new gagets etc .I did learn a few things your always learning on a bike and it did get me out more .

[@bankruptpensioner]

Hi Michael, thanks for the comment. I am on your side 👍. Also, modern bikes are like modern cars - very distracting. I find that all the tech distracts me from the road ahead - hence the move to the Triumph 400x and the T120. Simple bikes with no distractions 😆

[@tedcase9175]

Well done for speaking your mind, I agree with you, many years ago I had a big off and did not ride for 6 months , on returning to two wheels I felt a little nervous, our local council at the time, Lancs CC was running a motorcycle training course, the guy trained me taught me the three car in front thing, and riding within your capabilities, then after a number of sessions an assessment was booked by the local police rider training instructor, it was good, but always with in your capabilities, road conditions and awareness and avoidance of danger, after a few months I tried the IAM, and was disappointed at the “make progress” you need to overtake more, total BS, I quit after 2 sessions, iam not therefore IAM and have been riding for 53years without a break, I trained people for HGV up to class 1, so I do know a bit about road safety, bit this IAM stuff I hear at a local cafe I frequent as the take their trainees there for the feed back session’s and I hear the crap that is spoken, everyone to their own, but I agree with thee

[@bankruptpensioner]

This is a great story Ted. Sad to hear about the big off 😥. Always ride your own ride and within your capabilities. This is the right approach. 👍

[@paullane8586]

I ride a lot. If you want to see a first-class pass of the iam test, check out usernamekate's test. If that is class one, i will eat my helmit. My riding is progressive in the places on the road i am comfortable with. Ride your own ride. 5' 7", size 9.1/2, 61 years old, still alive. I must be doing something right.😂😂😂

[@bankruptpensioner]

Exactly Paul, ride your own ride. That's the most important thing. Seen so many riders following the rider in front and then getting into a real tangle in some situation. Ride your own ride.❤

[@eddiehawkins7049]

What I don't understand is that the thing drilled into us regarding speed, is to ride, or drive, at a speed such that you are able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the road. Yet your experiences seem to suggest that this is being ignored. I have heard a few people make similar comments to yours and find it worrying. I'm an older (well into my seventh decade) new rider but have been an associate member of RoSPA for some time as a driver. I've been on a few rides with my local branch since soon after passing my test and have found them to be as good as gold. At the pre-ride briefing it is always stated that you look out for the rider behind. If they start to fall behind, you slow down. If they disappear, you stop and wait. Never have I felt required to "make progress". I can't understand how people basing their training on the same principles, can be so different On my Bikesafe ride, I only rode at speeds I was comfortable with, but the observer ( a police instructor who is also an examiner for RoSPA, possibly IAM too) made the remark "makes good progress WHERE APPROPRIATE (my capitalisation)". All of the training I've done so far, and that I will do in the future, is intended to increase my enjoyment and safety.

[@bankruptpensioner]

Hi Eddie, thanks for the comment. Are you showing a better experience than I have had in the past which is good. When the word progress is used, I feel a little arrogance. A certain right to be doing what you're doing. And whilst they explained this to the guys about safety first, this seemed to be ignored. A bit bizarre really.😥

[@williamnethercott4364]

I don't think you're wrong at all. I amble about at whatever speed I want to do safely. I have never ridden with a group and have no urge to do so. Had I been with the group you described, I would have been watching them disappearing into the distance until such time as I decided not to bother and head off somewhere else by myself. I'm a former private pilot and I know exactly what you mean by the aviate, navigate, communicate priorities, which also work equally well in other areas.

[@bankruptpensioner]

Ride your own ride William 👍. Just enjoy the ride and make sure everyone is safe - or as safe as can be. Regard flying ✈, it's exactly the same with riding. When wearing Cardo comms etc, you see stress levels rise as they stop talking, and that's the first thing in piloting. You will see the captain ignoring the FO whilst the FO comms with ATC. Then you are unsure of your location, especially when VFR takes over from IFR 😬. Seen this many times - and I have done it many times if open and honest. However, you eventually find yourself and pull everything back together 😆. I need to do a video of my regrets in flying - that would be interesting but would probably not be monitised 😆

[@larrywade9041]

HI Richard- Come to think of it; I had an old girlfriend named Suzie. A wild one she was!! As I'm an old man now, I'm left with just my memory; what's left of it. But yea; those were the days. I'm sure glad that the old lady of me house doesn't go pokin' around me computer!! She'd just say " you old goat; you wouldn't know what to do with it". I'd tell her that she's right since it's been so long since I had any. Anyway-Have a beautiful day my English friend!! Cheers!! Illinois, USA

[@bankruptpensioner]

😆 - strange name for a dog - however 😆

[@Atlas-Rider]

You may loose some viewers, but you're add lot more for telling the truth

[@bankruptpensioner]

I'm laughing to myself because that's a good point😆

[@billy942]

I had quite a few rides with IAM, fantastic guys, the ipsga system is a great one with plenty to offer, but we're civilians, not police, so in my view, sensible progress is the way, not hurtling into corners, or riding in close staggered positions, it looks great when the police do it, but as i say, fantastic guys but not police

[@bankruptpensioner]

Mmmm.......good point here, and I did not think of this dimension. I mean the guys were great when I went but i should have asked if they were ex-police etc. Good point Billy

[@susanb.1113]

Hi Susie.

[@bankruptpensioner]

Hi

[@peterreeton6051]

ins companies dont like these iam etc as it promotes making progress ie riding faster than you would before ie more risk

[@bankruptpensioner]

Hi Peter, yes, so I am getting the impression from other comments, and this seems logical (certainly from my experience) 😬

[@nikoscosmos]

I agree with you. Do you see alien 13 ?

[@bankruptpensioner]

Hi Niko, I have found Alien 13 channel - I shall have a look 👍

[@nikoscosmos]

@@bankruptpensioner you might find it somewhat shocking!

[@bankruptpensioner]

@@nikoscosmos had a quick look and yes, you're right, it's shocking😬

[@markonmotos]

Insurance companies don’t give ‘advanced’ motorcyclists discounts, there’s a good reason for that! They’re considered a bigger risk on the road 😮

[@bankruptpensioner]

That's an interesting point, Mark👍

[@ashleyralston9142]

I got my IAM back in 1982 when I return from the Falklands War. At the time it was more defensive and observation skill needed along with braking. Upon my return I wished to be a motorcycle instructor on off duty hours but the local instruction school main instructor would only take on those with the IAM like he had. Thus I took the test after some instruction. I pasted a winter test and I remember a lot of different emergency stops including braking on black ice. This was at a time when the new 12.5 BHP laws for learners had just come into being. For two years I enjoyed the teaching I was able to pass on before demob and my return to Australia (we have nothing like it here - you can learn on a 660cc here). I've never looked down on others because I have my IAM, the skills I learned I've honed even more here. You have all the usual problems like in the UK but also Kangaroo's Deer, Emu's, Camels, Snakes (some attack car/bike tyres - if they miss the front motorcycle tyres your legs become the target), some VERY nasty spiders and of course the infamous Australian ROAD TRAINS out bush. Oh, forgot one, the worst of the lot GREY NOMADS?

[@bankruptpensioner]

Now that's a hell of a story, Ashley. I'm not sure I'd like to go round the left hand bend and meet a snake in the road.😆. Try to avoid those kangaroos.😬

[@ashleyralston9142]

@@bankruptpensioner Kangaroo's and Deer are mainly active morning and evening but in quiet areas (like where I live) all the time. I have a family of 24 living on my 34 acre property, the buck male being over 2 metres tall. The Hey Plain is a good one, the High Way that crosses it you have Razor Backs (Wild Boars) to deal with, they come out of the Cotton fields without warning at night. They rip the transmittions out of semi's (road trains). On a bike your screwed. Also on the Hey Plain Highway (NSW) you come round a corner and without warning come head to head with herds/flocks of cattle/sheep/horses, 1000's of them (each) freely walking back and forth across the two lanes that make up the highway. The farmers have free right to feed their animals this way around the highway. The highway is only 110 kph (just under 70 mph). Emu's are something else altogether, hitting one is like hitting a large bag of water - yes I've hit one and I did everything to avoid it. No matter which side of the road I went it followed, collision just happened. I was to close to stop but very close too. Grey Nomads - Old folks driving large 4x4's towing large caravans that they have NO IDEA on how to travel with. Speed on highways is usually 110kph they travel at 60 - 80 and refuse to allow others to pass. Nor will they use the pass lanes built for them to allow others to pass safely. They cause utter and total havoc on the road and just don't care. The number of times I've had to risk my life at speeds of nearly 200kph to get past a convoy of these idiots is unreal, just because they won't follow the road rules. Thus the name GREY NOMADS. Retirees with large 4x4's and caravans.

[@bankruptpensioner]

@@ashleyralston9142 brilliant info here Ashley. You reminded me of the film I think which was in the 1980s called Razorback. That was based in Australia. Some great photography in that film. The story may be a bit weak but some of the photography and filming is unbelievable.👍

[@muz1406]

Progress to me is riding at a speed I am comfortable with taking into account the conditions, not chasing someones tail trying to keep up on roads I don't know. At one time or another we have all gone down that route, luckily most of us are here to tell the tale, the unlucky ones are not.

[@bankruptpensioner]

Now that's a great summary in only two sentences. If we take this approach, then more people will survive.👍