Ian Johnson: An Expelled Journalist Returns to China | Foreign Affairs Interview

Foreign Affairs invites you to listen to its podcast, the Foreign Affairs Interview. This episode with Ian Johnson was originally published on October 5, 2023.
In March 2020, as COVID-19 spread across the globe, the Chinese government expelled a handful of U.S. journalists from China. The move came weeks after the Trump administration curtailed the number of Chinese citizens who could work in the United States for state-run Chinese news organizations. Among the journalists forced to leave China was Ian Johnson, who had been living there for 20 years.
This spring, Johnson finally returned to China. While he was there, he spoke to a cross section of Chinese people-not only scholars and officials but also small business owners, bus drivers, students, and nuns. Some were people he’d known for years.
What he found was grim-a country in a state of stagnation and turning inward. Its leader, Xi Jinping, seemed so intent on control and so obsessed with security that no price was too high. Yet, under the surface, Johnson found there may be more dissent than most observers realize.
Sources:
“Xi’s Age of Stagnation” by Ian Johnson
www.foreignaffairs.com/china/...
“Xi Versus the Street” by Ian Johnson
www.foreignaffairs.com/china/...
Sparks: China's Underground Historians and their Battle for the Future by Ian Johnson
www.amazon.com/Sparks-Chinas-...
Overreach: How China Derailed Its Peaceful Rise by Susan L. Shirk
www.amazon.com/Overreach-Chin...

[@thewrightoknow]

This was an excellent interview, I appreciate his measured response to the narratives we hear in the public media.

[@benjaminhuang4733]

A very informative and nuanced conversation. My personal feeling is that the widespread disaffection among China’s youth and the increasing stagnation of its economy will inevitably bring about change. And it will happen sooner than we expect.

[@yttean98]

Not a single piece of good news coming from an old hand journalist of China, this interview is what a typical American would want to hear. Really that bad I don't think so because I disagree with most of what he says. Most of them are subjective. Having said that a few issues he narrated are correct but how extensively agreed upon by common Chinese are yet to be determined, notice he did NOT quote any statical data to back up what he said. Imagine viewers, how many people he knew and interviewed, and how extensive he travelled across China, my guess total not more than few hundreds Chinese and the above are his concluding remarks which a typical American would quickly agree and wanted to agree with him One thing I am sure of China can change again(*), most likely under a new leader. Just wait and see. * China can reform and change rather quickly and on many occasions in the past and also into the future. Does that apply to the US? I don't think so.

[@rikitikitavi2885]

4.2 growth for 2024 according to IMF yes definitely a country in stagnation.

[@rikitikitavi2885]

Let me get it straight you propose to give a platform to Chinese intellectuals in the Usa? You seriously think this won't have consequences for them back home? And exactly how many are you going to find that have such disregard for their self-interest that are going to happily be platformed in the Usa