MAXIMUM RANGE! How far should we shoot?

[@brian280453]

For a young man (in my old eyes) to have so much knowledge , so much common sense and humility to avoid the “macho” BS so often encountered on fb and in the hunting world, and give sensible advice as he does, it’s a pleasure to watch his videos and listen to him.

[@clayhayeshunter]

I appreciate it

[@joelnenadovich8141]

Subbed

[@cliffbrown4217]

Amen to that.

[@waynemorris6217]

Thanks for another well made and helpful video. I am from MT, have been hunting for 50 years, the last 30 with a bow only, most of that with old Bear bows from the 50s. I find it interesting that the question people ask is: 'How far can you kill a deer with a recurve bow?' rather than asking how close I can get! In the last 30 years I have definitely seen a progression of hunters wanting to shoot farther and farther out - both rifle and gun! I like the hunt - I like the stalk - I like to see how close I can get!

[@clayhayeshunter]

me too

[@mikker32]

That is the right spirit to go hunting, training at max distance, hunting at shortest . Greetings from Dk🇩🇰

[@peterparsons7141]

Just fantastic that you share this with hunter’s. If hunters listen to the things you are saying, their success and enjoyment of shooting big game will be rewarded. I’m an older hunter, and I was fortunate to start hunting with experienced people and we all shared our experience and improved over 40+ years. I read all the books that were available, and taking that information and applying it I became competent. Always practicing, studying and refining. If I had the information you’re sharing when I was a teenager it would have advanced my skills and confirmed what I was observing and as experience grew. Good info. And for the younger hunters this is some of the essence of mastering hunting…. Or go buy lots of the latest stuff / gear and hope for the best! Sorry that’s a little snide, but success is simple,, not always easy.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Well said

[@IamLegend6]

Great videos, just started traditional archery 6 months ago and your channel has cleared a lot of questions up especially when it comes to tuning. Keep up the good work!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks Ben

[@ek5419]

Excellent common sense and humble advice. Kudos.

[@jonoedwards4195]

Your Bow looks Awesome! We take Our targets down the beach an do super long range shots an the Arrows go in just as deep as They do at 18 metres, We figured the drop maintains the Arrows speed? Unreal pondering Clay.

[@donniewillis2926]

Absolutely great communication between "hope and confidence". Whereas hope is just that, confidence embodies a whole different perspective. The great ones in any job or activity have complete confidence in their ability to get it done because they have trained for it and understand the many factors that influence that decision.

[@craufurdgoodwin3835]

Let’s not forget about game being alert to the sound of the bow string and in turn, reacting to the sound of an approaching arrow. Factor that in with being ethically conscious enough to watch a risky shot walk on by, these are conditions that separate the good from the irresponsible. My trad gear sees 20-30-40 yard shots daily but will never see a shot on game past 20, preferably 10-15.

[@Bowfella]

With trad gear jumping the string is definitely an issue that needs to be considered. But if you're archery equipment (lets say a high powered crossbow) has the speed to pass through at 70 yards. When you pass that 55 yard mark the sound is so minimal that the deer does not react.

[@Kurtdog63]

A deer can react enough in 1/3 of a second to drop the height of a 10 inch kill zone, so from the science end of it, where is your arrow down range in 1/3 of a second? Example: Traditional heavy hunting arrow traveling 150 fps would put your arrow at 50 feet or approximately 17 yards. If you aim at the very bottom of the ten inch tall kill zone at that yardage or less, even if the deer reacts, the arrow still has a very good chance of hitting it at the top of the kill zone. If they don't react at all, your blood trail is going to be amazing.

[@christopherrowley7506]

I haven't gone archery hunting yet, but almost every video I've seen, the deer do seem to drop down first when they hear the thwack of the string, before taking off running.

[@Kurtdog63]

@@christopherrowley7506 Doe seem to react more than bucks my experience. Not sure why. Bucks may be distracted from the rut...

[@imrelukoschus589]

Man, I recently started archery with recurve and watched alot!!! of videos. Your last shot in this one here, was the first time I ever saw, what f*cking "back tension" looks like after full draw! Love your channel! Thanks alot and hello from Germany! ✌️

[@Hawaiibohntr]

The difference between a archer and a bowhunter? A archer sees how far back he can get and not miss. A bowhunter sees how close he can get and not miss.

[@clayhayeshunter]

True

[@thearcherintraining496]

And every bow hunter is a archer, but not every archer is a bowhunter.

[@vetog9438]

Well said

[@X_Lee.]

And a prodigy bow hunter can do both with his skillful ass.

[@bipolarbear69]

Idk why I find this so inspirational

[@Elkmonger]

Just for fun I set my chronograph in front of the bales and shot through it at 10, 20, 30, and 30 yards. My bow is a 62" Galaxy hybrid long bow. 45# and I draw 28.5" Easton says you should have 25 lb/ft of energy for deer sized animals. My arrow combination weighs 540 grains. I shoot Easton Legacy 500 spines. Fiberglas cut to 31 inches. . For what it's worth hat would require my minimum velocity to be 145 fps. My velocities: 0 yards 164fps 10yds 158fps 20yds 155fps 30yds 153fps 40yds 149fps For the record I would like to say that was VERY stressful and I did not shoot the chronograph even once. I'm not doing it at 50 yards. I'm guessing at the decay rate mathematically I run out of energy at around 50 yards. I'm not confident anywhere near that unless I'm trying to shoot a pole barn and the kill zone is and 8'x8' garage door. Preferably I'd still wait for a 1/4ing away shot with an 8x16 door. I've killed a lot of animals with a compound bow. I do not like to take shots over 30 yards. I've only ever taken two shots over 30. Once was at 41 yards along a field on a deer a buddy hit and I drilled it. The other was the second time in my life I ever pulled the trigger on a crossbow. Killed a doe at 35 yards and had no idea at all what just happened. It was like magic. Pull the trigger and flash went toward the deer. Couldn't tell for sure where I hit it or if I hit it. Blood everywhere in the snow. My sweet spot is 25 yards and under with my long bow. Out of a tree stand I can't take a shot too close. I shoot really high. About 10 yards is as close as I can shoot for now. I'm working on it. Take care.

[@2greeksandacamera]

This video is a keeper for sure, highly recommended. Good going Clay.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks much

[@Kurtdog63]

A follow up comment. I watched a video years ago of a group of guys that were doing a doe removal contest shooting traditional equipment. As I watched the video and several misses, with arrows sailing OVER the deer, I noticed a trend in their aiming. They started aiming LOW, like at the bottom of the deers' chest, and that is when they started connecting with fatal shots. Even with today's compounds, it is rare to see a miss that involves a bow hunter shooting UNDER an animal. Aim low, and sometimes, VERY low, especially on shots beyond the 1/3 arrow velocity rule.

[@jayro4113]

I appreciate that you really keyed in on the confidence side, and that does have a lot to do with being active in the woods and hunting. But I feel like missed the other side of that coin and didn't mention it as much. You have to be responsible. Being responsible, that 8 yard bull of yours, that wasn't so much a thing of confidence, that was being responsible, in knowing, that's not the best shot, you may or may not be able to thread the needle through all that brush, but most importantly, you could just injure that animal and not ever recover it. Responsibility and confidence are two sides to the same coin 🙌 Great video man, hope all is well in these trying times for you & your family

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@yepyep27]

Something my dad always told me was the difference between could and should. Good points.

[@zachrobbins8105]

Ironic that you bring up a reference to the 35 yard range. Back when I shot a bow with training wheels and fancy sights, i took a shot at a buck at 35 yards. My shot was a ten ring, however this buck did a straight down belly flop and ducked my arrow. I swore right then that too much can go wrong at long distances and even before I switched to traditional gear I chose to limit my shots to less than 25 yards. Great video Clay!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks Zach

[@alexanderdavis2066]

It is reported that the English longbow was used on mass as a barrage weapon up to about 300 yards. As long as the arrow is still in air it will kill.

[@barrone10001]

true, and they were using anything from 120 - 160lb bows firing at around 12 arrows a minute!

[@visjesvanger]

but there is gonna be a distance that the deer catch your arrow between its teeth

[@DTA-me3kv]

Yeah that's shooting very high

[@mikedestroyer5139]

I shot my 70lbs compound bow 31" pull over 400ft away. Glad I recorded it 👍

[@slingshotwarrrior8105]

I'm new to archery so it's good to know!

[@mfarjr1848]

Really appreciate your insight on this matter.

[@nuttjeffable]

Can you make a video on the effectiveness of low poundage bows for hunting. My state of Utah dropped the legal poundage to hunt to 30 pounds. Any thoughts from you would be greatly appreciated.

[@yugen]

Check his "Is this even LEGAL" video

[@dosgatosdesignsllc848]

Well said. I practice at 45-60 yards all the time, but like you said, a lot can happen when the arrow has to travel that far.

[@biakmawia]

Great video as always My recurve 55lb @28inch 400spine I can't shoot 150grain accurate at all, total weight 540/550

[@jake4194]

Maybe your nocking point is off, have you tuned it?

[@Camtrain1989]

Hope ain't a tactic 👌 great message particularly for younger shooters

[@avtoshik1652]

If in doubt - flat out!

[@HuntingWithSteph]

A solid, common sense approach to shooting game...I can get down with that 👍

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@randyscott9034]

He is correct a white tail can jump the string at 10 yards I’ve had it happen and sat scratching my head on how I could have missed the shot till I figured out what had happened

[@andrewsewell6050]

Great video with great content as always!

[@DarxusC]

Field and Stream, June 1998, says Howard Hill got a 185 yard kill on an elk.

[@martintierney28]

awesome video brother love and respect from North Qweensland 🇦🇺🤙

[@alananderson5202]

On bow poundage..The great Ed Scott told me it's all about arrow placement. He said he did a lot of hunting with lower draw weight bows. Mike Yancey could verify, I'm sure. 35 lbs is plenty on some game providing the bow is well designed and the arrow is right with the right broadhead. Meaning, simple flat two blade.

[@matthewknight496]

My uncle killed his biggest buck with a 35# recurve. He also knows a guy who shoots 60+ pounds and has never sealed the deal on a whitetail. He has wounded multiple deer. Apparently he hunts with dull broadheads. My uncle on the other hand..don't know anyone who can get a broadhead sharper than him. Absolute scary sharp. For the most part, all he uses is a bastard file and then fine stones. He shoots the heaviest spined Port Ofords (23/64) with a zwickey Delta. He always says it's not the poundage that kills..it's about where you put your sharp broadhead. I use to put my field tips in my hunting quiver and he made me go buy new foam because the dirt from the field tips in there will dull your razor sharp heads. Have 2 pieces of foam now.

[@alananderson5202]

@@matthewknight496 very smart guy. It's great that you have him to learn from. It's a wonderful thing to have a good uncle. Two of my dad's brothers were so good to me. Made a big difference in my life.

[@lesterdumm6477]

The English longbow proved the long distance killing power of an arrow in the days Hastings. Done. For hunting, it's the hunters ability to make an ethical shot. Howard Hill's times were totally different than modern times. We must always encourage our bow hunters to stay within an ethical range of hunting. My range is out to 20. My point on is 25.

[@dylancurtis9713]

I keep looking on your website at bows. Not sure which to buy! I am a big hunter and would love to be able to use a traditional long bow or recurve instead of my Compound. I grew up with a long bow and loved it. Just not sure what would work best for me now

[@AydinProductionsLtd]

Even with a compound, I don't go beyond 40 yards as I always feel best at that range. Haven't tried traditional yet! Maybe next year

[@philipsutton2316]

I can feel hunting season building up big fella!!

[@outdoorsman9384]

Excellent content Clay, well described.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@robertmiller684]

I shoot a compound but I love to watch your videos 👍

[@lesterdumm6477]

We can fix that.

[@robertmiller684]

@@lesterdumm6477 I was going to switch this year but some stuff came up and I didn't have the time to practice

[@MangrovesToMountainsOutdoors]

Great video Clay. For the miss where you hit your leg, did you have the camera on a tripod with a remote(that's what I do sometimes) or a cameraman? Awesome footage and advice!

[@clayhayeshunter]

I had a cameraman on that hunt. Which is a rarity.

[@DavidBedell654]

Clay - Always the best!

[@robsarchery9679]

Great,good info

[@NorthHeart]

Personally i think there is a greater correlation between competence and confidence vs hope and confidence. I hope for 1 million dollars and i'm confident that with the right business plan its possible. I'm competent in producing the $22/hr ill make tomorrow. Another great video Clay, thanks for the insight as always.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Good perspective

[@jeffreyflinkstrom2167]

Wow...those two shots @ 100 yards was super impressive..

[@JayKrikorian]

Another outstanding video. Thank You 👍

[@johnbottone4996]

According to his book (original) it was 172 but it took "2" shoots first shoot dropped under his front legs!

[@DarxusC]

How do you feel about the guideline of not shooting at a white-tail that's more than the maximum distance at which you can reliably hit a target half the diameter of its vitals?

[@clayhayeshunter]

To many factors involved to cover in a comment. Short of it is that even if you can hit a dime at 50 yards, the odds of the deer still being there is low.

[@tradbowyer1975]

another great video thank you, I think I lack in the knowing I can make good shots I need to watch that other video, thank you

[@rickymathis7971]

Clay I'll make it short and simple you make it easy to understand if shot for years and still I mess up my form

[@clayhayeshunter]

haha, me too!

[@louisbailey4900]

I shoot A TON. Enough that in that split second a deer appears,I KNOW if I can make the shot. That said,more people should spend time learning more about the game they're after. Time sticking a target is far different than dealing with depth perception in the woods,outwitting some of the most alert ears and noses attached to a super fast animal,as well as the adrenaline surge we get. Only way to know is donit enough that everything,including making that decision,comes as 2nd nature.

[@ES1976-3]

Hey Clay! What method of aiming are you using on those 100 yard shots? Those were super impressive and I am having trouble with instinctive anywhere past 25-30 yards. Thanks!

[@clayhayeshunter]

For those long shots I’m using something called Point of aim. It’s kinda like gap shooting in reverse.

[@romanschonwald1819]

I am from Poland . I like yours films

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@pimbras301]

Hi Clay, thanks for the video! I am curious about one thing. I have seen you shoot a target at a 100 yards but i do not really see you aiming at the moon if you know what mean... Or changing your shot angle from your hips. From what I know is that when you change your angle of your bow arm you’re changing your draw length. But your accuracy is so spot on you must have another secret?! I would like to improve my accuracy at the long distance shooting (50 to 70 yards), so do you have any tips on this. I shoot instinctive and most of the time 3D! All the best from the Netherlands and I hope to hear from you soon!! Thanks

[@clayhayeshunter]

Hi Pim, you're spot on about bending from the waist. I just think the angle is too small in this case to make much difference. If I were shooting a steep up or downhill shot I'd certainly be moving my whole torso to maintain good alignment and form.

[@pimbras301]

Thanks Clay! Can I conclude that, when you just have to move a bit up or down and as long you keep proper form and not change your draw lenght I do not have to move my torso?

[@TheJustinJ]

@@pimbras301 if you are still working on 50-70yd, try split finger to lower your arrow below your eye, this should give you a point-on around 50yds. Shorter arrows have farther point on distance because the angle this geometry creates. Anchoring under your chin, split-finger as in olympic style should get you nearly 100yds point-on aim, or maybe farther. (This assumes 8-9 grains per pound and reasonably short arrows 28-29", I usually shoot 3-under, 30-31" arrows, 13-18gpp heavy bastards, and point on is only 25-30yd. Split-finger this becomes 35yd).

[@cozmictheo8238]

nice one cousin,, learned alot

[@clayhayeshunter]

Good dude!

[@scottsanders9090]

I strongly disagree with the current day application of the 10 gpp so called rule. The long-ago origination may have been developed to help ensure bow longevity. There are contemporary bowyers that will void the warranty if arrows are less than 9 gpp. Many archers are hunting with 40# bows. The 10 gpp rule would dictate that a 400 gn arrow out of a 40# bow for deer and even elk. The 400 gn arrow would be much inferior choice for deer and horrible selection for elk. The 400 gn arrow shot from a 40# bow pales in comparison to the lethality of a 600 gn arrow shot from a 60# bow. Note: assuming bow bows are of similar make If the 10 gpp rule actually applied in determining an adequate total hunting arrow weight, then why would anyone go to the trouble of shooting 20#s more draw weight?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Notice I said bare minimum. And offered other factors to consider. If interested I have an entire video on FOC and its impact on arrow lethality.

[@BrosephRussell]

Awesomeness

[@colbykinney5633]

I shoot a compound and hunt whitetails my max is 40 yrds I have buddys that shouldn't shoot past 25 with a crossbow.

[@clayhayeshunter]

😆I know guys like that as well!

[@tomhepner7033]

Well said!!!

[@Kyleds8]

hey Clay, do you take longer shots on bear as less flighty?

[@clayhayeshunter]

not really. most all my shots are within 20 yards or so.

[@flysubcompact]

Want to do something interesting? Place a shooter fifty yards from a target butt. Duck behind a good barrier (another butt, thick sheet of plywood, whatever) that is safe and just out of line of the shooter. See if you can drop to the ground when you hear the arrow coming.

[@stevemackelprang8472]

Were I " really " hungry, I'd probably up the distance a bit.

[@williamjr5825]

everyone shooting a bow at close distance but how effective is a bow and arrow in a longer range we need to know the limiting and it's effectiveness know one have explore the edge limitations of the bow and arrow

[@CA-qv2ux]

Good video! Are you back in Idaho?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Yep

[@user-qd6jt9sd3h]

If it's at a distance where you have to think twice about it, it's too far for a one chance hunting shot. You are the person most aware of your limitations

[@jasonjulaton]

I won’t take any shot greater than 30-40 yards. I’ll practice 60-80 yards all day, but I’d rather let the animal go rather than them moving and hitting them in the wrong spot. That’s my ethical zone.

[@328am]

I don’t shoot any farther than 30yds b/c I can’t afford to bang up arrows that miss. It’s an expensive sport 🏹💸😆

[@bagamias-hula]

A good hunter shouldn't have to get further than 25 yards with a bow. I'd rather be a good tracker than a good shot

[@jharchery4117]

But you did not answer the question. How far should one shoot with a bow? It is a straightforward question. The reality is that archery hunting is a close up affair. It has zero to do with your confidence or ability. It has to do with physics. You touched on this but did not confront it. This I think is what new archers are seeking. Please do another video on the physics and mechanics of the equipment. Show that beyond twenty yards, it is a gamble to shoot at animals that can move from where they were standing when you released the string. You can do better than this.

[@ronnygunsalus3533]

Recurve i wont shoot past 20

[@DouglasEKnappMSAOM]

Why do you want to kill the biggest buck? Should he not be left to breed and make LOTS of little strong animals? As a farmer I always kill the small bad animals and let the great ones become the parents of the next generation. I would think after many generations of shooting the biggest you will have only small deer. BTW loved the rest of the video!

[@TheBowhunterinNB]

For me personally I like to try to harvest a mature animal that has peaked and would be declining . He has passed on his genes already . That being said I would harvest a young buck that was showing weak genes first and foremost. Everyone has their own theory , but in the woods every opportunity is unique . If it comes down to meat in the freezer or not then that’s different animal selection from the herd . Clay as always has done an excellent job representing an ethical hunter .

[@IamLegend6]

@TheBowhunterinNB the biggest buck has already f!@#ed haha, hes already passed his traits to the next generation.

[@gremnutl]

This is a question which has been asked for many years. I first heard someone ask it about 25 years ago, and I'm pretty sure that wasn't the first time it was asked. I suppose that in some respects you've answered your own question when you said after many generations of only trying to take the biggest wouldn't you only be left with small animals. But hunters have been looking for the largest animals for how many hundreds of years, both for the trophy aspect and for a larger amount of meat. How many hundreds or even thousands of animal generations would this equate to, and yet there are still large specimens around. The chances are that by the time they get to be the biggest they have already passed their genes on to other generations and are possibly nearing the beginning of their decline when they could be deposed by a younger animal anyway. As a farmer you have an artificial set up and so you have to remove the weak ones, but this is generally done quite efficiently in nature. And I guess the flip side to your question is if you only took out the younger animals before they had the chance to grow into the bigger specimens, where would the next generation of big animals come from?

[@mr.rogers1962]

Do you not understand that's smaller bucks still have the same genetics is the big bucks it doesn't matter what age they are if they have good genetics it doesn't matter if the buck breeds as a two year old or a six-year-old

[@yugen]

@@gremnutl there are studies that show trophy hunting can lead to a change in a population: phys.org/news/2016-01-intense-trophy-artificial-evolution-horn.html

[@dimuthuharshana7528]

Why are you killing animals.? Why why why.? They are innocent

[@Micidiale870]

because you can´t eat them alive

[@anthonylubic]

Everything you eat something has to die, even vegetables farmers trap, shoot and poison animals so you can buy them at the grocery store guilt free 😏

[@boboz780]

30 yds max, period.

[@desertrainfrog1691]

Depends on the person too, for some people 15-20 might be all they can do with to make a good shot for hunting.

[@unknown-archer]

better lucky then good ... haha

[@AliIsmaeltyphoon]

If only bows could be silenced !

[@alexandreford3210]

😮😮😮😮👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏