Ice Climbers Are STILL Broken

Melee is in an era of upsets. Players like Jmook, lloD, Moky, and Soonsay have demonstrated that the game is still brimming with perspective talents, hungry to topple the game's decade-old champions. However, one player has crept his way up the rankings using a character once-thought irrelevant due to their infamous infinite tech getting banned. Today, we'll be talking about SluG, the Ice Climbers main who has brought the duo back from the brink at multiple majors this year.
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#slug #melee #smashbros #smashbrosmelee #pgstats

[@AndrewWuMusic]

“even Leffen, known for making accurate tier lists” I’m dead lmfao

[@CosmicHippopotamus]

Leff makes his tier lists with heavy emphasis on character potential, even when no one is actually doing what he envisions for the character. I think his lists are fine if you view them as Leffen’s vision for the game’s future rather than something usable in the current scene.

[@milvilleromain57]

Lmao still waiting for the moment when puff beats fox

[@davedanger4414]

@@CosmicHippopotamus Most tier lists I have seen are made with emphasis on character potential. "Could this character win a major" tier lists are literally the norm, the standard. Tier lists are also made for fun and discussion, never to be taken seriously. It's a shame we'll probably never know the true potential for most characters. Hopefully, "mid tiers" start climbing the ranks more and don't switch to fox when the going gets tough. The top tiers also happen to be "cool", at least to me, and I think that played a factor, at least in the beginning. My favorite characters in 2001, coincidentally, were Fox/Falco/Captain Falcon/Sheik/Marth/Roy/Samus/Link/YL. Most of those are top tiers and I didn't know a single thing about competitive gaming. I was playing CPU level 3 on Hyrule and adventure mode.

[@hismikeness4840]

@@CosmicHippopotamus what a weird way to say hes biased and salty.

[@immumeii]

@@CosmicHippopotamus I would agree with you, but if it was truly based on character potential he wouldn’t be putting puff over fox

[@Eichro]

Seeing top level Wobble-less Ice Climbers gameplay is beautiful. I miss Fly Amanita.

[@AutokickOff]

Not that dsmash doesn't have it's uses in the mu, but the real reason Peach destroys Icies is "Float FC Fair, repeat, can't grab me in the air"

[@lounowell4171]

if only they had disjointed aerials... the *real* reason Peach has destroyed ICs, in practice, historically is because FC fair forces a response from them, and if they make even the slightest mistake she punishes harshly and easily the MU has been considered awful for ICs for over a decade (like, back in the times when people thought Peach was a Puff counter...) and the narrative for why it's so bad has never evolved beyond FC fair, dsmash and hard-to-grab I'm not saying it's secretly a good MU for ICs, but we don't actually have much data on how the MU should go at a high level

[@nickq8093]

​​@@lounowell4171we have disjointed aerials yes, but they are only disjointed in directly cardinal directions. This means that we either need to commit to a full hop spaced bair with our horrible air speed or try get directly under peach to upair. Both these options lose to, among other things, a pre-emptive fc fair, which is completely safe for peach to do as even if we bait it she has basically no landing lag and still has a better set of neutral options than us in the mu when grounded. You are right in that there are many parts to why peach crushes icies, but fc aerials are a massive, defining part of it, and in a hypothetical situation where one of her things was taken away, fc's would be the single most impactful thing.

[@lounowell4171]

@@nickq8093 isn't that the most impactful thing every character would remove from peach to make the mu easier for themselves? Fast-fallers might say the chain grab on FD but idk Float cancelling is insanely good and peach is top tier, but ICs retreating Bair does out range peach approaching fair, whether you short hop or full hop it (just takes timing/spacing) and ICs uair outspeeds fair quite drastically The MU is much harder when peach abuses nair and dair as well, and mixes in turnip camping. But the answer to beating float is just really good drift control via wavedash > jump, ICs can have good air speed its just committal and takes a handful of frames setup. Fortunately ICs punish game on Peach is actually relatively good (she doesn't even really live past 150% outside of DL, ICs can juggle and edge guard, you can hit her with raw smash attacks in neutral if you call her out) so you don't need to commit that many times as long as you keep the punish going

[@thinmanjones5000]

1:45 I hate to be the "ACKSHUALLY" guy but Armada dropped a second game to Chudat in Game 1 of their HFLAN 2017 set

[@RoRo13890]

10:33 “the stream cut out at te end of the set” Yep, definitely what happened

[@jg6551]

im still annoyed they cut away from the game

[@sinfinite7516]

Ice Climbers are so sick, Slug is so entertaining to watch.

[@actuallynotsteve]

There's honestly nothing more beautiful and graceful to watch than top tier Icies gameplay, in Melee and Ultimate. It's like a ballet.

[@acomp250]

Great video! Good script that was very well presented/read, and clear, tight editing.

[@ricardoludwig4787]

Slug has shown what I had been saying for years, which is that ice climbers is a naturally sick character that was perverted by wobbling into something lame, and now it's returning to it's true form

[@LINKedup101]

Hard agree. Handoffs are dope as fuck, just like Shiek chain grabs are dope as fuck

[@harpot678]

@@LINKedup101 Sheik chaingrab is only cool if I am rooting for the Sheik

[@Cyzs66]

@@LINKedup101 Ok let's not get crazy

[@tiporosso]

Wobbles kind of proved that a few years ago, the clues were there.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

indeed

[@Sirmackerel]

Yesss more cinnarin PGStats content!

[@dabestname9927]

We love you PGstats! You guys are awesome❤

[@Kalimier777]

Another day, Another PGStats vid. Life is good

[@zackaryleitzel9118]

Damn i remember playing this dude back in locals in like Lancaster PA when he was a Fox main just starting the game. Crazy

[@beszt95]

is there any footage of his sets back then? :o

[@Zach-bc7xi]

yeah our boy slug has grown up a lot since the arcadian days =')

[@beszt95]

so happy to see a vid about slug :)

[@gravityvertigo13579]

5:19 holy shit what is this combo

[@DrizzyRhyme2]

Chu took a game off Armada twice

[@SSB_Seal]

Three times actually, according to Liquipedia which is the most accurate source for melee set history. Glad someone else pointed this out at least

[@sockmyson]

1:49 - incorrect, Armada also dropped a game in BAM grand finals vs chudat.

[@timdalton919]

Slug says: "I love everybody". < real

[@darlingj.canela]

Slug is the new mid tier hero to run for win a major. I used to hate ICs, but that handoff thing is crazy and enjoyable to watch. It's kinda the Yoshi's super armor.

[@loveislife77]

What an incredible video, thanks for making this

[@captaineflowchapka5535]

6:54 i never saw this being used in this contexte and i'm french !

[@ucd2465]

banning wobbling saved icies

[@Gabriel64468]

Editor's note: I'm sick. Commentor's note: Agreed.

[@ojgimpson]

Ics without wobbling are pretty rad :)

[@HispanicatthediscoMTG]

Slug is the man

[@nateinman1]

Armada dropped 2 games to ICs

[@emmanuelmondesir8677]

Good!

[@StephenSiu]

I'm out of the loop: is wobbling banned or not for majors and tourneys in general?

[@salvatore_slate]

it's banned

[@factandsuspicionpodcast2727]

Slug is just incredible. So much fun to watch.

[@MrTraydozer]

Armada actually dropped 2 games to Chudat in 2 different tournaments and not just 1 game. Just sayin

[@michiganisthebeststate1081]

It's still crazy how even taking a game from Armada was groundbreaking. That's some next level GOAT shit.

[@oookam]

Slug is a top ten melee player.

[@DeadweightLKS]

I gave this video a Like based on Super Princess Peach music alone.

[@terterpl]

SluG is sick, Ice Climbers are sick, melee is sick.

[@magnus1819]

Sad he retired

[@ballertheking1038]

if only slug could beat a peach main.

[@aquarios7851]

I love pg stats

[@emmanuelmondesir8677]

Armada only lost a game to icies? GOAT.

[@lazypaladin]

Ice Climbers: _Best Shoto in Smash Bros. Fight Me!_

[@tpete096]

great movie!

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

Lowkey Slug's top 10, especially when you take into account top player head-to-head matchups. And with the top 10 right now, I'd say that 8 players are shoe-ins (Mango, Hbox, iBDW, Zain, Amsa, Jmook, Plup, and Leffen) with the remaining 2 spots being up for grabs between quite a few other players that are near the top. At the moment, I would say that Llod and Slug are probably the 2 other players that would be in my top 10, though players like Wizzy, Moky, Axe, along with a few other, could definitely change my mind in a few tournaments along with some solid top player wins.

[@Tatertots1121]

Llod did not go to enough. And Slug has had bad placements. I’d say Soonsay and Kodorin should cap the top 8. Nothing to take away from Slug, his sets are must watch and he’s technically so impressive.

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

@@Tatertots1121 Soonsay has gone to less events than Llod though. And to be clear I'm talking about yearlong. So events from Genesis onwards count. Also what bad placements for Slug are we talking about? his worst placement was 17th at The Big House along with a 13th at Shine. Meanwhile Soonsay has gotten 17th at GOML and Ludwig's Invitational. I'm not going to challenge your opinion on Kodorin being top 10. He's a solid choice tbh.

[@ballertheking1038]

@@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569 slug has a lot of bad losses at regionals (nightclub VIP, trail invitational, etc) that holds him back imo.

[@okayperson3041]

@@ballertheking1038 regionals don’t matter

[@okayperson3041]

9 and 10 contenders are axe s2j slug and kodorin

[@TheChucknoxus]

Leffen is not known for making accurate tier lists at all lmao.

[@Alxinho959]

SluG is nuts, I wish he was at Summit... hopefully he makes it to Summit 15

[@wyattwood5692]

no way you said leffen makes accurate tier lists

[@stuffedlegoguy461]

Twas sarcasm

[@HiFive99]

Bring slug to summit 15!

[@JakeSm4sh]

Ice water is cool so are the Ice Climbers

[@CristianGarcia]

Hype

[@GhillieGuide]

this aged like shit #freeiceclimbers

[@Poketubbies]

Cinnarin da goat

[@Saltyoven]

Can we stop thinking leffen has good opinions? His tier lists are worse than Esam's

[@ulrichhavershim5529]

That’s the joke buddy 🙂

[@michiganisthebeststate1081]

Can we start understanding sarcasm?

[@LinkMaster5555]

Not as broken as fox lol

[@blakeokay7959]

"STILL broken"? More like still good/viable... Seems like slug has good game smarts and is disciplined, not that his victories came from cheese or exploiting broken/unbalanced tech.

[@mr.bubble2579]

First

[@Spicytake21]

Slugs got his pronouns on there 🤣

[@KuhEssen]

Lmao if you think they are broken you must also think many other characters are broken

[@orendamusic7577]

Am I in the minority who still hates icies without wobbling? Handoffs are just diet wobbling and their neutral is so annoying

[@Gearsio]

More like wobbling is diet handoffs my guy, it takes a shit ton more of technical know how, stage layout and neutral play to make a hand off work. Since it only works on ledges while wobbling is just one tutorial away from anyone knowing to do to it.

[@michiganisthebeststate1081]

Yeah you're definitely in the minority