This Melee Player Redefined Sheik

[@Epengu]

Hey guys - there's one other reason I voiced this video that I didn't say. This is the final vid I'm writing for PGStats! So this is my song swan of sorts. Just wanted to say thank you all for supporting and growing the channel - it's been so fun to help build it. Plenty of other good stuff in the pipeline, including some videos I contributed to - hope you enjoy them :)

[@TZMHBT]

Thanks for creating such an informative and interesting channel. Love how you guys use data and storylines to create unique content.

[@johngold42]

we will miss you

[@SSB_Seal]

It's a great one to go out on, your efforts are appreciated

[@electromagneticlemon]

Fantastic video, you'll be missed!

[@tysonfontanez]

...song swan? lmao But typos aside, good luck on future endeavors!

[@thundercharged1]

I'm not a huge Melee watcher, but even _I_ could see just how cracked Jmook is. His tech chasing prowess is so immediately obvious and defining of his playstyle. This video really excellently lays out just how crazy Jmook played at Genesis in a way that is easy to understand. Props.

[@BrynIE1127]

Atrioc and Aiden absolutely losing their shit in the crowd was so fucking funny lmao

[@harr2345]

Jmook put the absolute fear of death in every fast-faller he played with just one grab. Awesome player and excellent video!

[@T1J]

it reminds me of how wizzy refined falcon

[@blake..-]

T1J!

[@chanegun]

Yooooo

[@Tmathh]

yes

[@samharper2399]

Wtf T1J follows Melee??

[@zachsteiner]

@@samharper2399 Yup he leaves lots of comments on Melee videos

[@zachrouhana621]

Holy shit! I used to play with Jmook at friendlies like 6 years ago. Nice to see him doing well

[@sevenpink21]

Amazing video, Jmook inspired me to not just start playing Sheik, but Melee as a whole. I never had a real appreciation for playing the game myself until I watched Jmook play and decided to pick up Sheik. Can't wait to see him kick even more ass and chase even more techs

[@tree2992]

Great video! I love this deeper analytical style. Much better than those top 8 recap videos where the narrator just describes the set count without talking about the actual gameplay.

[@Sheu_ssbm]

This is actually such a good video. Very digestible and entertaining for the average player to watch, while also giving something for those more experienced players. The moment where you mentioned Jmook crouch canceling, Plup's adaptation, and then Jmook's adaptation to that was just such a dope moment - and while watching the set live, I didn't even realize the players were making those specific changes in real time. Melee is so sick lol

[@brendang747]

I have never been more motivated to get good at melee than after watching jmook’s run

[@KevinWBinder]

As a 20-year sheik main this is my dream video. Thank you.

[@MarMaxGaming]

Keep it up, Kevin!

[@Mixa_Lv]

Amazing analysis, and glad that you got the chance to interview. Counter hit grab is a bit confusing term because in fgc, counter hits mean a completely different thing. CC grab could be more accurate and easier to understand.

[@MqLuvvaLuvva19]

0:57 THE best Sheik vs Fox stock I've seen in life

[@JamesRidge1114]

Yeah this was my first melee top eight watching ever, but this might be my favorite pgstats video. So well written and structured into this great, coherent narrative. Well done!!

[@electromagneticlemon]

Finally the melee video!! Hope this pops off, jmook is a LEGEND

[@qlinc]

Holy shit this is one of the best melee analyzations i've ever seen. So impressive

[@dragodadragon]

This is one of the best videos you guys have ever made, well done! Makes me want to play Sheik now lol

[@HiImAiden]

Was wondering when a Melee video for Genesis 8 was gonna come out! Good to see it here!

[@thekoreanguy1]

I don’t watch melee and no nothing about the technicalities of the game, but this video was so easy to follow and understand! Great video!

[@Diamond_Aura]

Even if I don’t follow Melee as much as Ultimate it’s still so cool to see an analysis like this, because seeing how meta is able to continue evolving after all these years is just so cool

[@SSB_Seal]

Phenomenal video! The analysis was really in depth and well-supported by the clips and statistics, and shoutout to the X-Naut Fortress BGM at one point. I too am one of the Sheiks that struggles with Fox and to watch Jmook change the game live in person was a truly incredible experience. I really can't wait to see where the matchup goes from here.

[@Epengu]

dude just press the Z button :0

[@SSB_Seal]

@@Epengu I'm writing that down for sure

[@calebwebb1246]

I was hoping to see aiden in the jmook shirt after seeing it on The Yard. Was not disappointed

[@iamozone8658]

This was an incredibly well made video. Amazing use of the data to tell a story. As someone working in data the marriage of stats and smash is just beautiful. Are these datasets used publicly available?

[@MaxJacks]

The data (in game) was collected and analyzed by a program called slippi! (Which they don’t credit unfortunately:/) if you can find the SPL files for the games you can get all this data for yourself! Maybe they were posted by the genesis staff somewhere, I remember for last summit someone released all of the SPL files for the weekend on a giant google doc. Good luck!

[@woodstock21]

love all the stats - amazing work on this one!

[@iMacxXuserXx485]

Wonderful analysis! I understand Jmook's strengths now! Just repeating what you said. He loves to use grab as his way to punish and kill because he is so good at down throw tech chasing. He has a neutral and defense game tailored to set up those grabs. He creates many grabs off of defense (crouch canceling, uptilting to stuff fox approach). Then once the fox chooses to stop approaching he knows their gonna keep distance and throws a boost grab where they will be. Smart and effective! Now, how does he play other match-ups like Peach?

[@zaedis5629]

I did not expect hbox to have the highest inputs per minute

[@arJunebugSmash]

1:32 "he doesn't have a losing record against a single one" I SEE ONE LOSING RECORD THERE :) but also sick vid, Jmook is a legend. EDIT: CC IS GOOD AHH

[@JadenSmithEyes]

👀

[@Joadchoad]

Great video! Been wondering about some of these stats on Jmook’s run since it happened. I will just say two things 1) Some of Jmook’s lower DIPM comes from always opting for rtc-ing, which means his punishes take way more time and he has a very low DIPM throughout that time (esp since IBDW starts always missing tech and waiting, during which Jmook is clocking in 0 DIPM for seconds at a time). Unsure how big a part that plays and maybe that’s a part of what you mean when you say his play is more “precise” but it seems worth mentioning and isn’t obviously implied. 2) With regard to grab success rate, it feels like a pretty hefty statistical thumb on the scale to compare two sets where Jmook won to two where Plup lost (incl. 6-2 vs 3-6 game counts). Grab success rate is obviously causally related to win rate, and both are downstream from factors like hitting tech/movement or having a read on opponent’s movement. I tried confirming this in Plup’s two wins vs IBDW at Summit 11 and LACS 4, and Plup’s grab success rate was 27/41 or 65.9% across 6 sheik games, 16% higher than his own and 5% higher than Jmook’s from the video. All those 6 games went to Plup (but the fact that that might matter is the point), none were on FD (unsure of impact), and the LACS games were on netplay (though the grab rate was actually higher at 70.6% in just the offline games) - take all that as you will. Comparing one’s losses to another’s wins can still yield valid conclusions (Plup still made waaaaay fewer grab attempts, as you’d expect), but the video is ostensibly about playstyle/decisionmaking differences and I’d say something like “how each player is getting wins” better approximates conclusions regarding playstyle than “what happens in sets sheik wins versus sets she loses”. Anyway, still love the vid, hope the unsolicited paragraphs aren’t a bother, and I know y’all are trying to do the best you can with very limited data. Love to see more!

[@Epengu]

This is an INCREDIBLE comment and fills in some of the holes I wasn’t able to get to just because of time crunch. Thanks so much for looking through yourself - next time I ever make a video like this I want to be sure to be more comprehensive to cover stuff like this and not work off such a small sample size!

[@Epengu]

FWIW, I do think that Jmook’s lower DIPM is probably only marginally affected by tech chasing - it definitely has an impact, but looking at his stats in the other sets he played, the low DIPM is consistent and so drastically lower than normal that I’m inclined to believe it’s still noteworthy

[@Joadchoad]

@@Epengu ​ Thank you! Appreciate the very kind and gracious response both here and on twitter (lurking there). The DIPM does make sense, probably overestimated how much game time is spent in clean punish vs everything else. Definitely agree that the main conclusions of the video are not in question at all. We just spend unhealthy amounts of our limited time on this planet doing what we can with very little to find some a niche new perspective to appreciate a video game from - I'm real glad that you, the PGStats team are there to lead the way in this silly, wonderful endeavor

[@LoopZoopler]

Jmook's shiek gives me the impression that he has had all the time to go over his options and think about his next move. Despite all the "cracked" shit he does, he strikes as a really calm and compossed player that keeps his options in deck and executes them when appropiate. Like, he's never thinking ahead too much nor is does he fixate on forcing something. His "frefresh rate" so to speak is.. cracked? yeah i think that sounds accurate

[@Deadgye]

Gotta love how melee gets a statistical analysis that is so in depth, correctly interpreted, and well explained. While "professional" stats referenced for headlines can't even hold a candle. I'd rather spend my time watching these than television any day.

[@AlfyAragon]

Jmook content, you love to see it

[@theelveage]

I don't even play Melee but I found this super interesting lol

[@MageKirby]

It was really fun watching Jmook. It felt like a long while since we got a good Sheik player. We've had a lot of good melee players that pick Sheik, but no one in the high ranks that seemed to be Sheik that is good at being Sheik.

[@danielsmith5032]

Plup???

[@notreallythin]

@@danielsmith5032 plup was a samus main

[@shiina4861]

Amazingly concise and focused video, absolutely fantastic

[@The_SOB_II]

Gotta love it when one player caughtens onto the other's tricks (13:54)

[@SearedBite]

and now he won G9

[@Rye0838]

Watching him live was crazy. Never expected him to reach so far.

[@mantistoboggan537]

4:46 I don't know who this is, but "Rosamund Spike" absolutely is the greatest gamer tag I've ever heard

[@Epengu]

that’s me aka writer of this video LOL

[@TheManaLord]

Jmook era best era of melee so far

[@Kalimier777]

Love the video, and a great run from Jmook

[@marquistf1996]

Thank you for the hard work you put into this video

[@darkrhozan09]

and now the genesis 9 champion... incredible player and so fun to watch

[@eddiestilll]

jmook is easily my new fave sheik to watch after genesis 8 :D he's not as flashy as plup's sheik but he has insane efficiency and amazing needle play

[@Saskaruto16]

I said to my brother when we were watching Jmook that he looks like M2Ks Sheik + modern RTC game. M2K basically invented this strategy, but believed it was unviable long term, citing: RTC being too inconsistent, Sheiks lack of dash dance making her approach linear (you point out the hail mary boost grab), and lack of UCF/goomwave in his era making certain tech options essentially RNG based to cover. Now M2K may have been wrong about RTC, but some Sheiks like Spark have said there is counterplay that makes RTC much more difficult for Sheiks that is currently underutilized so we will see if long term, and obviously UCF/goomwave pretty much fix the mechanical issues this playstyle previously had. But the most interesting part will be to see how Jmook deals with with his neutral becoming more linear and risky if he is forced to continually go for boost grabs against more defensive opponents aware of his grab heavy gameplan. M2K thought only Plups style could answer this problem without heavy gambling, but maybe Jmook has another answer.

[@kennythekid130]

Please make more melee content this is amazing!

[@AfroSnackey]

Jmook is a theoretical Borp with tech.

[@connorlucas5035]

Hope everyone remembers how much ibdw gets frustrated from getting tech chases. His brain broke when zain did it to him

[@nateinman1]

As a Wobbles fan, I’m gonna need to see jmook do this again

[@jordanflores2349]

This analysis is insane

[@gooley9849]

Sheik is like a well made tool. Does what she does well and reliable.

[@Banquet_]

Great analysis!

[@Pandaval9]

Patrick Bateman voice : "Lets see Borp's dipm."

[@typhoontyph]

So surprised to see Big A mentioned in this video, also it’s cool that atrioc is there next to him i guess

[@Hundreddollardolphin]

My friends in 2002: Stop grabbing noob The best Sheik in 2022: 158 grabs in 8 games

[@notyou6674]

i don't know about anyone else but jmook always looked patient and strategic, idk why you are talking like nobody could tell and we needed the stats to find out

[@vddxr7240]

idc what anyone says walking like that is the crush

[@tdawg9010]

these videos are quality 🤝

[@pietrobarca]

Insane data man!!!

[@parkerfreeman715]

Great video, Jmook had a phenomonal run at G8. I would say though that it is a bit misleading to compare a player with countless S tier tournament performances over the eras to one with just a single upset. Using words like Jmook is and Plup is, is a very misleading path. All things considered, plups stats out pace Jmooks by a million miles. Using a single result to support a claim is a bit ingenuine. Quotes like "this is one of the only stats where the two are comparable" while favoring Jmook is actually statistically and factually incorrect. I understand that the implication is that you are only using the data points from these two tournaments, but again, its a misleading line of reasoning.

[@parkerfreeman715]

The point being that my main takeaway from this vid is that plup is worse than Jmook, which is a very disagreeable claim.

[@parkerfreeman715]

Also how is 13:16 a "HORRIBLE situation for sheik" Or a "50/50"? I don't see how either of those statements are even remotely true.

[@Lagoon7]

I love the term j walk

[@Greatermaxim]

I wonder what happens if Rayan Isran played Melee?

[@yalebass]

SHEIK’S TAKING BACK THAT #1 SPOT AFTER 20 YEARS LESGOOOO

[@mikecicciari845]

i bet he plays other fighting games, he plays smash like a traditional fighter.

[@hitnrun66]

Was that a melee two frame?

[@PaviFlye]

TECHNICALLY iBDW does have a losing record to Junebug hehe.

[@kirbyhm]

So when is PG signing JMook?

[@benro6564]

Remember the Sheik that used literally no tech skill and actually did decently?

[@DontLikeTryHards]

1:53 Looks like IBDW has a losing record vs. Junebug though?

[@robertorobato1748]

Are we really not putting FizzWiggle in this!

[@bobf9276]

Sheeeesh, how did y’all collect all this data?!?!

[@Greatermaxim]

Jmook is like the Pragg of Chess. The new kid that holds against Magnus Carlsen a bit. In this case, Zain.

[@RiderSSPU]

Lets go Jmook!

[@Tmathh]

sheik been good yall flavor of the month af

[@chrispham6599]

That sick edge guard😊

[@9ad263]

Sheiks worst MU is Puff iirc, not Fox. Doesn't make this run any less impressive though.

[@TheTrixster690]

Why ?

[@brolo7234]

JMook reminds me of younger M2K where their reaction time is so much better.

[@soup_ostrich]

incredible video

[@sham_noway]

god bless jmook

[@susparia4724]

after conquering sheik's toughest matchup, he must now deal with her easiest

[@bootleg6595]

made me play sheik

[@christophersmith8328]

I love needing out about melee

[@jfb112697]

wow what a cool video made by such a cool and smart person

[@mareksicinski3726]

Jmook seems to have a differnet idea of sheik itself and therefore what it’s worth to invest his skill in too- partly bc of skills maybe Mersey but I’m not shre

[@slaxx6885]

Jmook the best sheik fr

[@breadtk]

as a melee player, the incorrect usage of the term counter hit by commentators and content creators annoys me to no end

[@Epengu]

Yeah, that's definitely my bad on this one. Hope it wasn't too distracting!

[@snakebebop]

So this guy redefined Sheik because he beat two good players but not the top players? Makes sense.

[@hadore152]

he may be good, but he'll never be no tech god Blorp

[@ericzaragoza1353]

🎆🐙🎇 jmook

[@xcchi]

Jmook is just Borp with tech skill😂

[@brentos78]

im mooking im jooking

[@SuperDarwinFAN]

So J is winning because he's wizrobe-ing?

[@nathanl8769]

How exactly did he redefine it? Lol

[@brooklynmelee4515]

Ratio

[@darkstar4450]

wondering the same thing lol

[@brooklynmelee4515]

What made jmook unique was his unique edge gaurds, defensive AND combo routes and extentions. JMook did redifine how you can play sheik, and ive adopted some of his gameplay

[@voided882]

Slippi?

[@lanexyz]

every melee content video just takes a poopy on plup. rip

[@girugamesh9001]

great vid

[@tree2992]

tl;dr -- reaction tech chase and CC grab.

[@ladyinwight]

i hear skullgirls music in so many youtube videos oml

[@HakumeiTenshi]

12:25 no...no..NO! We are not calling them counter hits! Those are not what counter hits are and you KNOW IT! I am tired of having to explain to my FGC friends what words that are already commonly used in fighting games mean in the context of Smash even though we ALREADY HAVE WORDS FOR THESE THINGS. Ain't nothing wrong with just calling them reversals.

[@brooklynmelee4515]

They usually are just called counterhits, thats how their counted in slippi stats

[@four-en-tee]

At a certain point, you gotta realize that the game has been pushed to pretty much its absolute limits. All thats happening now in the meta game are just top level players who are comfortable with their mains figuring out how to properly approach other top level players that are comfortable with their mains. The only players that are really being held back at this point are people like Axe as well as pretty much any Samus main (like, unless someone is willing to prove me wrong in a major tournament, and I hope you do, I'm standing by the fact that Pikachu and Samus in this game are just too damn inconsistent to reliably win a major tourney). I think Yoshi could actually win tourneys though if someone better than Amsa picked up the controller. I feel like that character is really underrated and no one else is willing to put in the work to find out. Like, I still think Fox is the best character, and i still think Sheik is not top 4. Its just that players like Zain and Jmook are that good at getting into their opponent's heads. Hell, its how Hbox remains so consistent in this game. Everything from his presentation to how he plays the game and approaches his opponents is how he took the 6th best character in the game and made her look like she was better than Marth for a time before Zain started dominating the game.

[@ziggylarkdust]

tech chase limit coming 2035