Iceman Review - Marvel Champions

[@VillainTheory]

Welcome to the grumpy club about Iceman haha. He's fine, but fine doesn't cut it with 51 other heroes to play. And I feel he was very close to feeling amazing, he has a lot of cool ideas that just didn't land as well as they could have for me. Also yes I stuck around to the end!

[@wizrad2762]

That's it exactly! Close to greatness but instead ended up in "meh." I would love to have seen some slight number tweaks to his hero cards to take him to the next level.

[@ghostsage6421]

First time I’ve really disagreed with a review 😂 I understand your point but I feel like iceman is the closest I’ve felt to playing a “control” deck in magic the gathering. Having to time activations and making the most out of his ability has been fun. For us what changed our perspective was focusing on building his economy since his cost curve is high. With xjet, team building exercise and deft focus he can have some really interesting turns.

[@TAC3O]

This!

[@Kazuchi35]

This! Totally this! I literally finished an expert Mutant Genesis campaing with my friend piloting Iceman (playing Protection), his economy got so insane with 1-2 Team Building Excercises, X-Jet, X-Gene, Deft Focus and his own Belt that he was able to play a bunch of cards each turn, with multiple readies and constantly healing. We lost against Sentinel once (he caught 3 of our cards after the initial 2), but we beat Magneto first try (we were sweating though). He's very picky about heroes, but he had a lot of fun, controlling the board and nuking minions with Ice Blast. I did play Iceman myself in solo, it was less fun, but I still liked him.

[@cerealkilla187]

I’m very new to Marvel Champions and picked up Ice Man because he’s always been one of my favorite X-Men. So far, if I had to rank him amongst the heroes I own, he’s a solid B, B+. I want to try him in a confuse justice build and lean into the alter ego ability. Like stack frostbites and flip down every 2 or 3 rounds to keep my deck full of ice cards. Haven’t tried it yet, but I think it could be pretty good.

[@tromdial7719]

If you have the Psylocke pack, Upside the Head is really good for confusing and sometimes even a stun. Also, any boxes or packs that give you X-Gene, Deft Focus, Team-Building Exercises, X-Jet, and Utopia, these all empower him dramatically for the resources and readies.

[@artificeralf]

I really like Iceman. I took a hiatus after NeXt Evolution & Deadpool, and Iceman brought me back in. I like the Frostbite card and how they assist with taking big attacks and preventing large Thwarts, something most Heroes only seem to deal with one or the other. His Thwarting isn't great, but I'm used to my favorite solo Heroes needing some assistance (like War Machine). I'm not sure why the content creating community seems to not like him, but considering the level of deckbuilding and play skill you all have, it's probably more difficult to find a new puzzle for you all that is challenging and rewarding at the same time. For me, the biggest question is: do I feel like Iceman? The answer is a resounding "YES!". In addition, the Sauron mod set is excellent - it's well designed and Sauron packs a nice punch. He's also traited for the Brotherhood of Mutants, making him a fun addition to swap for Mystique in Mansion Attack or Sabretooth (or wherever else you want to try and throw a few Brotherhood Mod sets in).

[@D20Woodworking]

Sounds like for you theme is the most important thing with a new hero, which is totally awesome and good to know about yourself. I want a hero that is "fun" (obviously for whatever my standard is) to be unique and interesting and to work in several aspects. Iceman doesn't check those boxes for me. But! What's awesome is we have so many heroes nowadays that even if I love a hero and you hate them, and the other way around. It's all good. The game is in a very healthy spot right now with the amount of heroes we have so we can have such varied opinions on everything.

[@torlumnitor8230]

"Iceman is a fine meal." D20 Woodworking 2024.

[@mitch-TO]

This is exactly how I felt about him. I thought I might be alone in this, but then saw Villain Theory’s review and now yours. Seems he’s not really sitting well with the community. Hopefully I can find 1 or 2 fun decks that use him well. There are a bunch of other heroes I don’t love, but there’s a certain deck that happens to just click with them, so I can enjoy them every now and then with that deck.

[@Chuanglo]

Agreed! I tend to like heroes like Ms. Marvel, Ghost Spider, and Shadowcat who really plug into aspect cards in a way that totally changes the aspect card's value. It's so fun to open up a hero that immediately makes you think "Oh man that card that's usually pretty bad that I don't use would actually be great with this hero." It breathes new life into the game. I tend to enjoy those heroes more and more, as I play them and get familiar with them and all their interactions. Heroes like Iceman or War Machine I absolutely adore the first dozen or so plays, but after that every time I play them it's like, well, I'm playing their hero cards mostly, and the aspect is... here, I guess? But it's not really interacting in a meaningful way. Iceman's only real interaction with aspects is getting more value out of card draw (with his expensive cards) or readying (with his "freeze" ability) but... that's true for almost every single hero.

[@kurt-the-viking]

Yeah; fully agree. I've come down a lot on Iceman the more I play him. He's just...clunky with too many counter-synergies (looking at you snow clones...eating ally slots with no way to thwart) and a cost curve that you have to hope the deck RNGs in your favor. He's comfortably "meh, it's fine" for me as well.

[@JJEMcManus]

After repeatedly watching Iceman , regardless of Aspect , lard Frostbites onto an enemy only to see them frittered away by a one HP chump block in MP, I put him in mid-D class. It also makes me reconsider Valkyrie and elevate her to low-C.

[@Champion_Leon]

Cryokinetic perception is not a “can be a good card”. It’s a literal 2 cost Avengers Mansion at its worst.

[@D20Woodworking]

Assuming you use his Freeze Ability yes, that is its worse. If you can't because of stun or something else. Then it's a card that is sitting there. That would be it's worst. But I agree on average it is a card draw card. Which I guess you would need for his very expensive kit.

[@D20Woodworking]

On top of that. Mansion is more versatile for multiplayer games (obviously) so while it is the same for the solo community. Mansion is more versatile in multiplayer settings (just mentioning because I know the multiplayer community will want the recognition ha)

[@tromdial7719]

I've played him in all aspects now except Justice and Pool, and I like him a lot, and I also enjoy his aggression cards too he came with. Big thing with Iceman is getting his resource generators in play to make his deck dirt cheap. Overall, I enjoy him better than fine, but my friends hate his defense thaws all his accumulated Frosbites including the new one.

[@titomontalvo2880]

Stuck around to the end. Sometimes i start a video and then come back to it to finish jr. Hopefully that still counts. I haven’t played iceman yet but I feel like playing him in protection and aggression can feel unique. Aggression you can add the new cards that do more damage to villains with an attachment attached. And protection allows readying which allow more frostbites which are a unique mechanic to iceman

[@jearnett]

I agree that Aerial decks with Iceman is a trap. Relying on an upgrade that you lose by flipping on AE is way too inconsistent.

[@tedduby2346]

And Ice Blast is not an Attack, so it gets around Stun and Guard

[@kadehaflund9295]

It's not super strong but I was able to beat expert Klaw with a mutant protectors Iceman deck which I had a lot of fun with the game plan there was to frostbite one of the weaks minions so when they attack you trigger mutant protector and the ally comes in undamaged to use later lots of ducks have to get in a row but when it goes it's super satisfying imo Also I've enjoyed running unflappable with him which often along with cryogenic results in you drawing two cards and possibly readying during the villian phase which just feels cool

[@thomasmcintosh1452]

Being in the UK I haven't got my hands on this one yet. He does look middle of the road though. I'm oddly more excited for Jubilee this wave

[@ChampionsandBeyond]

We've still not got him in the UK (at least the store my subscription is with hasn't), does make me worry that he will get boring quickly and will end up being a disappointment

[@Frosty5.0]

I haven’t got to play any of the new stuff all looks so good though. Always good hearing your thoughts!!

[@miguelcarbajal1021]

I think more of his hype ties with the aspect cards that are really good. But on the other hand there’s the fun aspect too, for example I have a miserable time with Bishop (mostly because I haven’t bought Next Evolution and the other packs that give resources, so whoever I’m 2 handing with shines when playing Bishop, I never get to proc his ability and that RNGness annoys me

[@ItsMeEbby]

Great review. Going to pick him up this week.

[@scydrex7828]

The thing is, they couldn't give Iceman all the cool things they are saving for Kool Aid Man. 😅

[@Bumbum_Inspector]

He just feels very clunky and very mid due to how expensive his kit is imo. I wish he had 3 copies each of Arctic Attack and Chill Out and I wish Chill Out costed 1 instead of 2.

[@Kazuchi35]

My problem with your statement about "good is just average now", what if they'd keep making better than good heroes consistently? Will that become the new average and then they'll need to do better than that? If yes, that's just not a realistic expectation. To me it feels like you're burned out and go through the motions so to speak, it's very apparent in your tone as well. I'm not saying this to be negative and I could be totally wrong, but that's how it feels to me. If I'd play this game daily and play multiple games each day, I'd get burned out in a month and couldn't enjoy new stuff as much. To me "good" is totally fine and always will be. If I keep my expectations high, I'll never enjoy new stuff as much as I could. To be fair, keeping your expectations high is totally fine and I also get what you're saying. But to me, it's just not a realistic view. Just in the last and current phase we got so many of my favorite new heroes, they pretty much replaced half of my TOP10. X-23, Cable, Magik, Bishop and just barely missing are Psylocke and Domino. What is interesting to you will not be interesting to some people. For example, I don't like Scarlet Witch as much. Is she fun? I can see that, sometimes I play her, but she's not my style.

[@D20Woodworking]

Why is it not realistic? This assumes there is a ceiling of what is a great hero design. That all things are a X number out of 10. And that if all current heroes are a 7 let’s say that’s average now. I don’t look at things like that personally because I believe that as you continue to do something, as you grow in your craft, as you practice, you will continue to make things better. There are a lot of flaws with early designed heroes. Does it make them bad? No. Not at all. But they have obviously come a long way in design since then. So personally I still stick with the idea that heroes can constantly be improved upon and the idea that people can’t get better at designing a hero, I just disagree with. As far as burned out? No. Not at all. Like you said. You don’t like which for reasons. And that’s totally cool. That’s how I can be with Iceman, is all.

[@Kazuchi35]

​@@D20Woodworking What I'm talking about is, what would happen if most new heroes would reach that 10/10? You can argue, that at that point they wouldn't be 10/10, just 7/10 if you compare to them to one another. But this still feels off to me and doesn't fully make sense. On the flip side, I obviously agree, that most heroes can be improved on, but that's kind of subjective, kind of not. In general, players can see if something has an amazing design or not (Magneto or Scarlet Witch for example). But there should be a ceiling, where you just can't, because you hit a limit. At least that's what I believe. For example, how would you improve on Scarlet Witch without making her stronger or much more complex? I also agree that some early designs are somewhat a bit rough, half of She-Hulk's kit is meh for example and we have definitely come a long way. But perhaps because of how much of a long way we came is why we get pretty much only good heroes. Imagine having Cable or Domino back in the first wave, they'd be fantastic in comparison. But if you compare fantastic to fantastic, they don't seem anything special anymore. As for what is "great", is as I said, kind of subjective, kind of not. I think for example Magik's design is that high level greatness, but I know you don't think highly of her, totally fine. I understand that you don't agree with design evolution having a "ceiling" and that's totally fine. It gave me some perspective and things to think about, which is awesome. But at some point you might have to sacrifice balance or complexivity to evolve. I might be totally wrong and to be honest, I really hope you're right. Oh, glad I was wrong about the burnout. I love your topics/reviews/opinions especially.

[@D20Woodworking]

So the way I would look at it is that there is no "out of 10" or at least we can't measure it accurately that way. If we compared much older heroes to other older heroes there would be a lot of "7+ out of 10s" because we didn't understand yet what they could do in this game. We didn't understand folding cards, player side schemes, manipulation of player decks (to the level it is now), manipulation of encounter decks, etc. I personally don't think we are at the peak of what the design space is. I think we have thought that over the years in the past and they have continued to surprise. You can look at the custom design space of what has been done over there and there is still so many interesting and cool mechanics that FFG could do (with their own spin on it obviously) that haven't been touched. Because of what I have seen over the years, what I see in the custom design space, what I have seen Caleb and others do with other games (LOTR for example) and how they have continuously improved upon and made unique things for longer lines than the Marvel Champions line, I don't think there is a ceiling that we can see yet. Maybe we do hit that ceiling at some point but I don't think we are near it. I personally think we can do a "out of 10" scale when the game is all said and done. When we know all the elements of it, when there is no space left to be designed, then we can see great design vs "bad" design. This wasn't really a response to your response (I mean obviously it was in the YT system) but me trying to flesh out the thought process more.

[@Kazuchi35]

@@D20Woodworking That is exactly what I was talking about, when we eventually reach that "peak". I was referring to that alone. It's also why I don't keep expecting more, but if a new, amazingly designed hero arrives, or a new, crazy and fun mechanic, I'm all for it. But yeah, I agree that there is room to grow and I highly doubt we'll reach that ceiling anytime soon. Especially how the content has slowed down. I also agree with everything you just said, although I'm not very familiar with FFG's other games, or the custom stuff fans are making. Thank you for taking the time to type these detailed replies to me, I honestly really appreciate them!

[@danielcraig6615]

I Love Iceman! I am glad you are hearing good things online bc from what I have seen it seemed like everyone had the same response as you. He is just “meh.” I think Frozen Solid is incredible. I almost always shuffle it back in when I flip to AE. Canceling an activation even for steady/stalwart villains is great especially for some villains. 1 less infinity stone, 1 less glider move, 1 less horseman affect, 1 less magnetic counter, etc. -1 or -2 scheme means he can get to AE more often safely. And the ice slide discard doesn’t both me too much bc I have never prioritized it bc it does discard. Plus he is kind of a tank and can take most of the damage for himself especially after his upgrades. 🧊🧊👶🏼