Idaho 4 Murders: Expert forensic analysis

On November 13th, 2022 four University of Idaho students, Ethan Chapin, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Kaylee Goncalves were stabbed to death in the middle of the night.
Joseph Scott Morgan, a veteran death investigator and forensics professor, takes us through the scene at 1122 King Road, an examination of the four victims at the scene, and what investigators might have seen when they first arrived.
Joseph Scott Morgan, M.F.S., F-ABMDI, is a professor Jacksonville State University where he holds the faculty rank of Associate Professor of Applied Forensics. Morgan holds a Master of Forensic Sciences degree from National University and is a Board Certified Fellow of the American Board of Medicolegal Death Investigators. He is also the host of the podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.
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[@daniafterdark]

I was at CrimeCon this year and attended this presentation. It was very well done, Joseph Scott Morgan is a great presenter!

[@yasminlindsay2166]

Someone from around there said 'those stairs creek and make so much noise it's hard not to know someone is on them'.

[@dianealarcon8304]

Squeaky or not, no one in the house would ever think a Perp w/ a knife would enter in the early morning to M. You’d think it was one of the roommates.

[@teegees]

He’s a very good speaker. Where is the next part?

[@EattheFOODTina-ND]

The floor plan of the house on King Rd was available online since it was a rental house. The killer wouldn’t have needed to be in the house previously to know how to make his way around the house.

[@EyesopenedIseeyou]

True, perp/s would know the building layout etc. Not who was in which room, nor furniture layout. Or known a dig would be present etc.

[@EattheFOODTina-ND]

@@EyesopenedIseeyou If BK was stalking/spying on the girls since his phone pinged at their house at least a dozen times, he would have known which bedroom was Maddie’s…

[@EyesopenedIseeyou]

@@EattheFOODTina-ND phone did not ping at their house lol. It pinged on a Moscow tower. There are 3 towers in Latah County where pings bounce between (if one is full eyc). The twelve times you are speaking of is in reference to the 12 times Kohberger VISITED Moscow in a 3 month period of time. Which adds up to approximately once a week. Once a week IS NOT stalking. If it was, many of us would be arrested for stalking. Lastly, let's pretend BK'S phone actually connected to 1122 house wifi (which it did not per court docs), that in NO WAY would tell ANY perp what victim was in which room. Maybe I'm not understanding your comment, but it seriously didn't make logical sense to me.

[@Pllm30]

@@EyesopenedIseeyou . Maddie had pink boots in her window that she wore those boots, that may be a clue. His phone pinged on Moscow towers at odd hours. They can actually look into his phone's historical locations to show where he actually was in Moscow. One logical reason that he was only going over there once a week is because remember he was a PhD student and a TA. This goobles up tremendous amounts of your time. I believe he was stalking, but he couldn't stalk them everyday because he was tied up with his studies. He could only stalk like on weekends. Plus, during the weekends were more activities such as parties, during the week wasn't much going on but work and school. He wanted to stalk but also watch the parties and look at people coming and going as he is a voyeur. What good is being a voyeur if you drive to someone's house only to be looking at their door??? You want to see people and activity. He didn't care about what victim was in each room. He knew young vulnerable girls lived there. Whomever was in his way got it, all there was to it.

[@EyesopenedIseeyou]

@@Pllm30 yes, pink boots would be a clue. However, considering there were 3 other females living in the house, how could a perp determine whose pink boots they were? The phone pings at odd hours is false information. That has not been confirmed by any docs or officials. So we have no idea when BK actually traveled to Moscow. As for "not having the time to stalk" (?). Stalking is considered an obsession, they MAKE the time to stalk. Especially if attempting to create the perfect plan to murder. This also reminds me of the time Kaylee actually did report a stalking incident. She felt fearful enough to call on these 2 men who were following her, and to mention it to the one shop owner who had spoke on Kaylee being stalked in an interview. I'm curious to know if these 2 males she had reported, were they interviewed after the crime? Did they offer up their DNA, and was it tested against the 3 unknown male profile DNA found at the crime scene? Basically, were they even questioned and ruled out? I doubt it. You've thought up a heck of a scenario, but it has too many holes. I'm not trying to seem rude, but have you followed this case in depth? I'm not going to say BK is 100% innocent, but I definitely cam say with a factual nature that this investigation has not been done on the up-n-up. Too many things do not add up correctly to fit the narrative. Even the PCA is Swiss cheese, and flat out lies in some parts. AND contradictory with initial reportings/uodates/pressers from Chief Frye/LE.

[@bennyanthro4891]

Exactly. The perpetrator had to be someone who knew the layout of the house, was a repeat visitor, or a tenant. Was BK ever there? Is that how “his” DNA got on the knife sheath? Everything that we know they have on him is circumstantial, which can be explained away to create reasonable doubt. Especially if the victims were killed in under 10 minutes, which was the original timeline given. Let’s cross examine the surviving housemates, let’s subpoena the frat bros. LE let too many people off the hook too soon.

[@andyhunter5869]

I never believed the four were killed by one person. Victims 3 and 4 would have heard Murphy barking, screaming, and someone being in the house just like Dylan allegedly did. If it were one person killing everyone, those victims (3 & 4, so Xana and Ethan) would have been alerted to the carnage and had time to call 911, not sit there, scrolling TikTok and ordering DoorDash. But here we are, believing this happened silently in 7 minutes or less. Also, one killer would mean blood from victim one would be on victim two, blood from victims one and two would be on victim three and blood from victims one, two and three would be on victim four - with all victims probably having the killer's blood/DNA on each them. Just imagine if it was Kohberger's DNA on each of those victims. They would have released that information, he'd be dead to rights and pleading out by now, and the community would have moved on. But it hasn't been, most likely because the DNA found on the victims is not his, and they're ignoring, instead, hyper-focusing on the unreliable touch DNA on the knife sheath as if it's somehow a silver bullet to his absolute guilt.

[@bennyanthro4891]

@@andyhunter5869thanks for sharing. I totally agree.

[@frankiebaby5770]

@@andyhunter5869 I agree! And I have always felt it was more than 1 person who did this.

[@richardmullins44]

It seems obvious to me that it is most likely that BK's dna was not on the sheath, and that this is a made up story. For the dna comparison they need to choose dna markers for the comparison test between the sheath dna and BK's buccal swab dna. They just need to make sure that in the list of dna markers prepared for the comparison test, no marker that is in the sheath dna is included unless it also appears in BK's dna. They are fooling the undiscerning media that BK's dna matches the sheath, when in fact it was just random matches, like absolutely anyone in the world would get. You have been hoaxed.

[@beaglemawm1517]

Reportedly, considering Kaylee’s injuries were vastly different and more savage than the others, I suspect she may have had a different perpetrator.

[@DesignRhythm]

I would question every single "fact" we supposedly know about this case.

[@lorikennedy1127]

I absolutely love JSM. I could listen to him talk all day. Soothing,intelligent & you can tell he loves teaching others.

[@CrimeCon]

Agreed

[@mrsentinel4911]

Investigate the Moscow Police Department.

[@LudacrisLu]

Seriously...AND the Univ. Of Idaho

[@mrsentinel4911]

@@LudacrisLu About 20 years ago the University of Idaho got caught in fraud involving housing down in Boise. Follow the money.

[@mstea2234]

There’s always dirty cops and this stinks to a set up.

[@mrsentinel4911]

@@mstea2234 Dirty cops need an equally Dirty Judge to keep the organized crime operation running smoothly.

[@beaglemawm1517]

Although from the outside I agree something seems shady. However, unfortunately we just don’t have all the insights needed to know for sure. It doesn’t make sense that a cover up could have transpired with Moscow PD, State police and the FBI all working the case. It would be hard to cover up anything with the army of officers and secret agents involved. Or would it?

[@HiroshimaMS]

An expert forensic should not speak about feelings, but only about facts, imo. And speaking of facts, Kaylee's room was not empty, and Kaylee ("these two pair of people" 4:50) did not work at the Mad Greek restaurant, Madison and Xana did... for me, It's not worth watching the rest of the video.

[@richardmullins44]

it would not give me much confidence in their forensic ability if they say "two pair" when they mean two, or a pair. But maybe I am wrong. It could be a dialect difference.

[@BeTheLight242]

That’s funny, I was reading your comment while listening to the video and at the same time he said 2 pair people I was reading your comment, and yes I agree with your opinions. Not worth watching

[@leightonvaughanwilliams4703]

The presenter is personable and clear but unfortunately there are numerous factual inaccuracies, some of which have been highlighted in previous comments. The lack of research into how to pronounce Xana’s name is disrespectful. In the presenter’s defence, I think he may have been invited to speak at very short notice.

[@Pllm30]

LOL

[@Deceptiondismantled]

Xana and Maddie worked together.

[@Deceptiondismantled]

Xana was 20 and Kaylee room was not empty. Not being mean but facts are soo important!!

[@Lynn-T]

Not many ppl have dissected the case as much as those of us have in the true crime community. This man is an expert and the main facts of the case are what they are. This crime was in no way committed by one individual. It was absolutely done by more than one and likely they had help from their inner circle in some way in my own opinion. Allegedly, of course.

[@cynicalgirl3633]

​@@Lynn-TI agree 💯. And I also think the perpetrators had inside knowledge of when the victims got home and where they were at the house at the time. In other words, I think that somebody in that house told the perpetrators it was okay to come over now.

[@Lynn-T]

@@cynicalgirl3633 1000%%

[@Canyouseeanypartofme]

Stacy chapin wasn’t pleased either

[@okiegranny4844]

In the fact that Kaylee was not in her room, yes her room was in fact "unoccupied". Kaylee was in Maddie's room.

[@bethanywhite877]

How did they exclude the University driver that took them home? Was he ever brought in for an interview? His wife works for the Moscow police. Lives 1200 feet from BK. Would love to know how much they checked into this guy.

Eric somebody right?

[@UndeadLavender]

@ eric gower

[@ericajohnston8247]

How did you find this information?

[@modeangelis7913]

It was in the PCA or something released by police...​@@ericajohnston8247

[@suzanneb66]

I believe he agreed to be named as the private driver. His wife works for MPD. Why would LE misspell his name in the PCA as "Grower" & list him as living in Pullman? They know his American & where he lives since his wife work at the police dept. Why would he have only heard about the crime days later when he works at U o I & his wife works for MPD? ITS A LIE!

[@markstevens1729]

I’m 5 minutes in… when does the “expert forensic analysis” begin?

[@DVD927]

“Joseph Scott Morgan, M.F.S., F-ABMDI , is the Distinguished Scholar of Applied Forensics at Jacksonville State University where he holds the faculty rank of Associate Professor of Applied Forensics. Morgan holds a Master of Forensic Sciences degree from National University and is a Board Certified Fellow of the American Board of Medicolegal Death Investigators. In 1985 Joseph Scott Morgan began working for the Jefferson Parish Coroner’s Office in New Orleans. During his tenure as the Senior Investigator with the Fulton County Medical Examiner in Atlanta, Georgia, Morgan helped establish the national training guidelines for Medicolegal Death Investigators. To this day, Joseph Scott Morgan remains one of less than 200 people nationwide to attain “Fellow” status through the American Board of Medicolegal Death Investigators.”

[@MsMolliesMom]

Interesting presentation but it ends abruptly. Where’s the rest of the video?

[@CrimeCon]

The full presentation (and all session videos from CrimeCon) are available on crimeHQ! If you'd like to watch with a free 3 day trial: www.crimehq.com

[@Darrell7777]

Whether BK was involved or not, one thing that many people aren't aware of is that the OVERWHELMING majority of murder convictions are based SOLEY on circumstantial evidence. The fact that the evidence in this case appears to be merely circumstantial will not likely play a role in whether he is convicted or not. Numerous attorneys on both sides have stated this fact in interviews recently while discussing this case and others.

[@Pllm30]

His DNA at the murder scene is not circumstantial. LOL

[@Darrell7777]

@Pllm30 Actually, it IS circumstantial. My point is that it doesn't make the evidence less compelling than the overwhelming majority of cases. See the definition below: Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact-such as a fingerprint at the scene of a crime. By contrast, direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion directly-i.e., without need for any additional evidence or inference.

[@Darrell7777]

​@Pllm30 So after I refuted your statement that the DNA evidence on the sheath wasn't circumstantial and proved that it was,, you went from that to not caring if it's circumstantial and bringing up the gag order, which has nothing to do with any potentially additional evidence. The gag order is in place in order to preserve the integrity of the case and to ensure that he gets a fair trial. It's a high-profile case and the media is fraught with nutjobs and have proven to be whores. It was a good decision in my opinion.

[@richardmullins44]

@@Pllm30 The dna story is quite likely to have been made up. All that was required to do this was a compliant lackey who was asked to make sure that the dna matched. The person who did the testing did not need to know that it was rigged. It was easily rigged by only testing for markers that were already known to be in BK's dna. There are 3 million SNP markers in a person's dna. I asked open ai how many SNPs n the 20% to 50% allele frequency range are in dna. open ai said:It's challenging to provide a precise estimate without accessing the latest genomic databases, but I can give you a rough idea based on general knowledge. The human genome contains millions of SNPs, and the distribution of allele frequencies is continuous. SNPs with allele frequencies between 20% and 50% may represent a substantial portion of the total SNPs, as these frequencies are within a moderate range. As a very rough estimate, it wouldn't be surprising if tens of thousands or more SNPs in the human genome fall within the 20% to 50% allele frequency range. However, for a more accurate and up-to-date assessment, I recommend consulting recent genomic databases or literature that focuses on human genetic variation. ----------------------------------------- Assuming that there are at least 10,000 SNP markers in everyone's dna. Let us identify a collection of 100 SNP markers which occur in between 20% and 50% of the population, in the knife sheath dna. We will expect on the average that some number between 20 and 50, let's say 30, of these markers, will match any random person. It is however extremely unlikely that another random person would match on this same set of 30 markers. I thnk the real meaning of the dna comparison test that was done was that it was very unlikely that anyone in the world except BK would match on the comparison. This is true, but it is true only because the comparison test was a hoax. BK matched, but only because the markers for the comparison test were preselected to be in his dna. THe dna comparison markers were selected by starting with 100 markers found on the sheath dna, and from these picking ones that were in BK's dna. (The above account is only meant as a fictional illustration. I don';t know how the hoax was done exactly).

[@Pllm30]

@@Darrell7777 His cheek swab matching the sheath DNA is not circumstantial. It's solid DNA evidence. Also, being caught on surveillance in an area where it's you, your phone pings and car in the same timestamped area is also not circumstantial either such as when he was at Albertson's.

[@moonbeam385]

Did CrimeCon realized halfway through uploading the video it was bs so they stopped? If so, good call!

[@sher6705]

¿Why did it have to cut off soon as it gets interesting,where’s the rest..?

[@Dimensionaut_]

in the english language we only put the one question mark at the end, just so you know

[@bethanywhite877]

With all the cars in front of the property and considering how narrow the area is, I have a hard time believing anyone would enter that home to kill not knowing who was in it. That area is so crowded, parking is all over the place and anyone having a party is very obvious. Go there on a weekend and just listen late at night. You can hear everyone easily. I watched a KZbin creator do this. Very loud area.

[@Canyouseeanypartofme]

Do you have psychopathic tenancies?

[@TheMainLead]

@@Canyouseeanypartofmehuh

[@Canyouseeanypartofme]

@@TheMainLead They can’t get into the criminals mind so they’ll never understand

[@EyesopenedIseeyou]

Also, let's not forget the plain clothes officers driving the area, and the Banfield stop of a total of 4 males, and the 5 running in the background of that stop. Yet, no one that night heard ANYTHING??

[@Pllm30]

That's why they stalk to figure this information out. At 4 am everyone over there was sleeping.

[@grantgoldberg1663]

If you want to know what a great job the lead investigator did read the application for the arrest warrant. It's public, highly detailed and unlike many police officers this one was actually smart and stuck to the law and didn't give the defense any excuse for reversible error in the future.

[@kimporter1744]

Yes...I agree!!

[@JeffSherlock]

"what a great job the lead investigator did read the application for the arrest warrant"--people all over are criticizing that PCA (it is not a warrant) for being lousy.

[@misfitmolly8308]

From what was said in this video, here's the scenario I'm seeing: He was stalking one of the blondes, I'm thinking Maddie, the one who came back for a visit. Perhaps he watched the home enough to know her bedroom was upstairs in the house. Came in through the bottom floor door, not expecting to find the downstairs girl awake and perhaps accidentally was found by her, which led to her being attacked. Next he checked nearby rooms (leading to the man's attack) thinking she made enough noise to awaken someone, or just in panic mode that things weren't going as smoothly as planned. Next headed upstairs to attack the two blonde girls.... this would mean the perpetrator wouldn't need specific knowledge of the homes layout before hand, just a general knowledge as seen from afar through windows and still be able to maneuver around.

[@aum0aumgood]

Where is complete forensic analysis?

[@SuperFacecloth]

These murders are only understood by understanding the network that runs the town where the crimes took place. The cover could only be promulgated by a tight, fully sealed network bent on deception. The town is the network. Every major power player in the community is involved one way or another.

[@AmiLouWho9495]

💯

[@EyesopenedIseeyou]

YES!!!!

[@sludgeness1]

Wow, this guy gets so many facts wrong. Very Ill-prepared to speak about this case.

[@KellyJarreau]

I wish he'd at least know how to pronounce their names 💔

[@tcbellsz]

Which facts are wrong?

[@modeangelis7913]

How do you know "facts" are wrong? Everything we know has been released & everyone knows it...anything else is speculation. I think his accent affects xanas pronunciation, but yeah, I get it....

[@KarenMurchison]

K and M were not home at 1:45 as he said.

[@JeffSherlock]

Losy those facts. What garbage have you been reading?

[@venus3200]

Correction. Xana was 20 , Ethan was 20 as well. It’s pronounced zan -ah. I was born in their generation im their age rn and in college. I am baffled by what happened to them.

[@mivanp2185]

Im sry but my biggest gripe that im struggling to come to terms with is he went passed Dylans room 3 times but never once entertained her room . And was also confronted with her. Killed the rest in 9 mins but just left the one person that saw him . That is hard to believe cmon

[@mivanp2185]

And that one person who then apparently locked herself in her room then didn't contact anyone till near noon next day . Really?

[@pk-cp1bo]

Kaylee and Maddie returned home at 1:56. Kaylee did not work at Mad Greek. Apparently this guy has never heard of zillow.

[@tcbellsz]

What does Zillow have to do with where she did not work?

[@Pllm30]

@@tcbellsz Zillow for the layout of the house. Everyone thinks he had to have been inside to know the layout when he could have gone on Zillow or Realtor.

[@jeaniechampagne8831]

This tragedy is one of the most monsterous slaughters I've ever heard about. Everything about it is beyond comprehension. How can one human do this torturous act to another human? A very sick person whose brain is so messed up that being among society should never be allowed. If he is ever set free, imo, his life would never be safe.

[@falconquest2068]

The exterior doors may have been unlocked but by the sound of things, every room had a lock on the door. None of the victims locked their doors?

[@laurens4561]

No not every door had a lock on them, only downstairs rooms did.

[@EyesopenedIseeyou]

​@@laurens4561 Xana's father had recently changed the lock on Xana's bedroom door (2nd floor).

[@mivanp2185]

Ive seen it said where he comes back around 9am next morning . Do you think he was thinking of retrieving the sheath after realising he had left it behind

[@Pllm30]

No. He was looking to see what commotion would be there and if someone had called cops yet.

[@mivanp2185]

​@@Pllm30Could be that because he had not heard anything on the news by that point . He went back to retrieve the sheeth personally but for some reason didnt go through with it. But what you suggest is also viable

[@Pllm30]

@@mivanp2185 No he can't go back to the house. It was getting daylight, and the students would be waking.

[@mivanp2185]

​@@Pllm30 not if they are dead. And he already knows they were up late . So would still be sleeping following morning. Weekend and all

[@mivanp2185]

And considering knowing that the sheath was still in there though it was worth the risk

[@ajsdream]

Yayyyyy they showed part of your presentation!!!!❤

[@Stefania98s]

Show where??

[@Mr6wolfdog]

This is Why.. The House should Not have been torn down.. Till The Case had been tried in Court and closed. Very Sad, STUPID, and Irresponsible mistake. I Am In Shock over that one!

Expert? Forensics? Not in the first 10 minutes for sure

[@richardbutler9217]

Nonsense. A voyeur stalker had ample opportunity to view occupants from the parking area above and behind the house. Stairs are not that difficult to navigate.

[@JeffSherlock]

Really? You can walk around in a strange house, in the dark, no problem. In and out n seven minutes, killing four people?

[@richardbutler9217]

​@@JeffSherlockit would not be a strange house if a voyeur had repeatedly surveilled the house from the parking area behind the house, and closely observed occupants activities, and carefully planned his crime.

[@proudamerican3651]

It will be interesting to know if Brian Kohlburger researched, "Real-Estate" Listing Photographs, giving him a general knowledge of the, homes layout.

[@Canyouseeanypartofme]

Lol comments are worse then I was expecting

[@madmatt574]

A bunch of idiots in the comments lol

[@Justseemei]

Bud the dog was in the supposedly empty room.so why didnt he attack.😄 because he knew the perp

[@suzanneb66]

His name was Murphy. Buddy was the little dog that was skinned

[@IwishIwasshorter]

Murphy was a puppy and used to multiple strangers being in the house and making noise. He did start barking at about 4:17AM which I am supposing caused the attacker to flee.

[@littlemissyd34]

He was in his cage

[@Justseemei]

@@littlemissyd34 yeah sure u know . The cage looked like it was for them like pic of Xanax in it 💯

[@JeffSherlock]

Because the killer did not open that door, and that fuzzy poodle is not an attack dog.

[@EattheFOODTina-ND]

It’s so disrespectful this speaker cannot pronounce Xana’s name correctly. ☹️

[@yomama05]

Xana rhymes with Hannah, right?

[@sharonroossin7814]

I want to know if the owner of the property. Like the hosppital for contamination issues. Blood or other things are gone. Hmm

[@huertalapaz8359]

they were home at 1:56 it was on her phone that he sister had access to .

[@farinshore8900]

Opinions about personality count as forensic evidence in the US ?

[@KimBTown]

I lived in family style living with college aged friends. The master bedroom was never empty for long. Milliseconds at best. Someone had dibs on that room a was already moving in. Could it be that Bethany or Dylan had moved up?

[@danae2882]

The dead are never bad people 🙄

[@waligerber9410]

Another expert who doesn't even know when KG and MM came home to start with. After 2 minutes you can stop talking expert!

[@KikaJay]

Xana is pronounced with a short 'a", not like Zayna. She and Ethan were both 20 years old, and Kaylee and Maddie were 21. Kaylee did not work at Mad Greek. That was Xana and Maddie. Also, Kaylee was not fully moved out. She still had her bed with the blankets and everything in her room. It was viewable from the exterior through the windows in photos provided by the press. The house is a little confusing but is easily figured out on Zillow, because the interior photos were publicly available on there due to it being a rental. I like Joseph Scott Morgan but the facts matter.

[@Pllm30]

Student housing already comes with beds and furniture. That was not Kaylee's furniture. Rarely do you need to move your own furniture into student housing. LOL

[@KikaJay]

@@Pllm30 In a dorm, yes. This was not a dorm. It was a rental house. The downstairs bedroom opposite of BF's bedroom was unfurnished. K was not fully moved out yet and there were blankets still on her bed, plus her TV and AC window unit were both still there.

[@DesignRhythm]

Why was the Cheif, two Jacks + Adam all at the Corner Club???

[@TaraBluee]

Xana and Maddie worked at the Mad Greek

[@suzanneb66]

Kaylees bedroom was NOT empty! Her mother had said in an interview that she loaded belongings into her new Range Rover to take back to the house. Fact check your speech, dude!

[@modeangelis7913]

So she had packed her room....(obvs after it would be empty, no?)

[@suzanneb66]

@@modeangelis7913 Steve & Kristi said she backed her RR up to the frat door to pack things she wanted to take back to the Moscow house. Photos of the house on 11/13 shows Kaylee's made bed & her TV in her room along with decor. It wasn't empty

[@suzanneb66]

@@modeangelis7913 Kaylee took pics in her room on the day of the crime with Dylan. It was far from empty.

[@sherrykrause3410]

It was either a crime scene photo or a photo taken by the media from outside of Kaylee’s bedroom looking in through the sliding glass doors. You could clearly see Kaylee’s bed and linens, her blankets were folded over as though she was in bed and got up. I’m my opinion, Kaylee heard something in the hall or in Maddie’s room, she got out of bed to see what the noise was, she closed her door behind her to keep Murphy in. She opened Maddie’s door only to see the kil’r and her best friend dead. She turned to run but she was grabbed. A physical fight ensued and Kaylee was over-taken and shoved into Maddie’s room where the enraged attacker continued to knife her long after she was gone. Both girls’ lives ended on Maddie’s twin bed .

[@Gonk]

Doubt it was one person.

[@IwishIwasshorter]

Don't doubt it. Multiple experts agree that it is not only possible but certain.

[@Loveturtle7272]

Kaylee and Maddie did not work at the Mad Greek together. Kaylee didn't work there, at all. Appreciate you, but please get all of your facts straight. This is full of misinformation.

[@sherrykrause3410]

Lots of misinformation!

[@sherrykrause3410]

She worked at Jitterz (coffee shop).

[@Coco61767]

As a FE, do you think as organized and tactical as this was, that LE could be involved in corruption in small town with drug dealers. These were like tactical /combat soldiers, not the first time..Is it 14:46 possible they we’re using this home and one or 2 of the girls for a spot to manage their dealings.. is it possible a lot of money etc was being held on lower level of hone and was potentially stolen at one of those parties? Is is possible that the money could not be repaid and things got out of hand with threats from each side.. threats of exposure of a few rouge LE..could Kaylee buying a range have triggered some events, making LOOK like they had the money and basically said f The suspects.. this to me is how criminals would assume off of desperation to hold them accountable.. could Kaylee have been lured back for a plan already in place? Could they have been stalked via grub truck stream.. was that encountered incident with those boys on band field a way to account for being in area.. the boys saw them and to throw them off, they started questioning them (psychology)etc.. were they securin a perimeter? dressed in tacticals for small town college activities?.. why?? this is how I’m thinking. My opinion..we have to keep an open mind of even the unthinkable.. this wasn’t one person, it was a team that was very organized..small town corruption is nothing less than unheard of.. why after 100 incidents of police coming to place for too much company and noise, did they get not one ticket issued??? Why did they appear unbothered on every single body cam video about LE threats of tickets? A lot makes no sense when it come to what’s available to read about this case.. being from a very large city in the Midwest, this sounds like textbook small town with A hell of a lot of money, corruption/coverup..#afewbadapples I think Jack S was maybe trying to look over them because he knew something was happening.. maybe he was trying to protect them by being with them.. maybe he knew the suspects but had no control of situation , maybe he knew once they got in car with driver, it was over..and that’s why he left so abruptly and hasn’t resurfaced.. I think suspects we’re already there laying in wait, let in. Whoever let them in knew them, but had no idea what was going to happen.. they were given the story.. this town isn’t talking because they know people are still very present. IMO

[@lizgaspari-gasparinutrition]

We share the same opinion. way too professional. then not one person sees or hears a thing? The cleanup itself. The unusual delay. Non-residents entering home in am before 911 call. I'd think there would be a huge echo on the block. Plus it reminds me of a saying Audi, Vide, Tace meaning "Hear, see, be silent "

[@Coco61767]

@@lizgaspari-gasparinutrition absolutely 💯

[@wannabetrucker7475]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@sissy4506]

That house was all over the internet!!! Easy to go online and check out the layout. There's a Huge M in Maddies window

[@Pllm30]

lol

[@evelyncarbonell1]

he knew the house very well

[@Dimensionaut_]

the target he's referring to would be Maddie, since her stepmother was arrested on serious drug charges and snitched on the Aryan Brotherhood, as did Xana's mother around the same time

[@hopeoswald3448]

Evil horrible . I will never understand. Why .

[@mstea2234]

Xana and Ethan were 20, Kaylee and Maddie 21. Xana and Maddie worked together, and Kaylee’s room WAS NOT empty. Didn’t mention the dog, who would have surely been running around barking at the sound when f his master getting killed. The 8hr delay. Reciting standard points or stating facts incorrectly. Kinda of a lack luster presentation. This wasn’t a one person crime spree. Multiple perps. Glad to see ppl are taking the time to educate themselves on the facts and not allowing ding dongs like this idiot to run the stalker narrative.

[@lorieastside1]

he's a joke

[@TaraBluee]

Kaylee still had her bed and everything else in her room

[@DanBudda]

All that and said nothing. Maybe if the rest of the presentation was included… but this segment equals a big fat zero.

[@t-ellie794]

I think it just means hunter is the one who first found them deceased. I think it's not like a hide and go seek for Ethan. That's just what people say when they find a body.. hunter was ethans best friend, so I'm sure it's definitely more of a "and hunter is the one who found Ethan." Not as a "hunter finally found ethans body after searching" I think if you go through and dissect every word, you're going to add much more to this than what there already is, and there is an overwhelming amount going on as it is.

[@karmaklutz]

BF was at the house at time of murders, disappointed in analysis

[@vickies197]

Oh and I lived in a house growing up just like this one in Ohio

[@user-ut9bl4xg3r]

He can't even get the facts straight

[@angelaa.c.1370]

I’m disappointed with this presentation. It looks to me that he didn’t study the case bc he got many facts wrong.

[@LoriFranklin-ee4sh]

Let's get real. Not "Everyone" could of known code. Did LE take DNA off the key pad?

[@huertalapaz8359]

sorry your speculation can be torn to shreads but interesting concept

[@Ellen-os2sh]

This guy has a lot of the details mixed up

[@user-eo9dy5fn6s]

Just hope they have paid you enough for this BS

[@unicorn_6932]

Shame he didn’t get the facts of the case correct…. could’ve been an interesting presentation…

[@Lilacsangel]

You would think he could pronounce her name correctly. Xana

[@raearnejohansen9538]

Bethany wasn't home during the crime wow that changes everything for Dylan oops😮

[@ekrip8]

How do you know that BF was not home?

[@deannarobinson4065]

When the name of the first victim isn’t pronounced correctly…. I’m supposed to listen to this dude why?????

[@teacat55]

What about the dog!?

[@carrollherzog3313]

Was anybodies DNA in the car? Was it so well scrubbed that even his father’s was no longer detected?

[@ChrisMythMusic]

Well that was rather pointless

[@thomasoaxaca3379]

Speaker is ill prepared and arrives at wrong conclusions.

[@JeffSherlock]

This guy goes on and on like a gospel preacher, painting a picture of the victims as angelic and wonderful. How is that professioal? Fear spread all over the country? No, It did not. Move on to facts of the case. The man who gave then a ride home was a him not 'them'. There was no keycode lock on the sliding-glass doors. Kaylee Goncalves dog was in her old room. Not likely that the killer went there. The killer knew the yard, knew the interior of the house, was comfortable inside the house. The killer went straight to Madison Mogen's room, killed her, then struggled to kill Kaylee Goncalves.

[@NM1982]

Compare the clothes of the Banfield boys on pictures of the victims maybe they changend they dosn't fit to me take a look at least

[@paulettahansel1608]

He seems fake

[@lindacombs6121]

He seems to fill in with general knowledge which isn't correct in some instances. As Harsh would say where's the meat and potatoes? He's shooting from the hip. Bring on the technical. That's your expertise. ,

[@lauriebassett9323]

She was only 20

[@Matthew-fs3cs]

Also a former drug user

[@WhtePrivlageJesusFollowerWoman]

Who is this joker that can't even pronounce Xena's name correctly or give her appropriate age I mean the lack of respect that has been shown when it comes to these kids and this horrific tragedy is mind-boggling I am so untrusting of any of this It all smells like crap to me I'm not saying that coburgers not involved with this but I'm not saying that he is either We have seen nothing but confusion sneakiness people that are not transparent whatsoever Now we have somebody who's given a speech and crime-Con and he doesn't even know how to pronounce one of the victims names correctly and then he gives the incorrect age to her How can we believe that any of the evidence is actually facts if they can't get their facts right for something as simple as a birthday I mean I I'm just so mind-blown right now It's the lack of respect You cannot take 5 minutes to learn somebody's name that you're about to give a speech on or a talk on publicly for a ton of people to have their eyes on you You really cannot learn somebody's name that has been a victim and now gone from this world in such a horrific horrific way .............. I can't even listen to these people anymore we're going to have to get Justice for these for probably in another life because I don't think it's coming to them here on earth in this life I really don't mean to sound so negative but I don't see true justice being given to these kids nobody's ever going to believe half the stuff that comes out and this trial because of the lack of transparency and the lies and just the bizarreness that we've witnessed from the beginning so I'm just going to leave it and my heavenly Father's hands and know that he is the most righteous of righteous judges and he will make sure that justice is served in the end and I'd rather do my justice here on earth if I was sentenced to have to pay my dues for doing something horrific I would much rather have done here on earth than when I meet my maker because we're here for the blink of an eye literally and then eternity I can't even write my head around that so that's what I put my faith in is knowing that God will not allow this to go unpunished...

[@ALH072]

Well you spelled her name wrong.

[@chadstrimpel3379]

Check you out talking about how he pronounced her name wrong, and here you are not even spelling her name correctly. 🤡 😂 so if that makes him disrespectful, what does that make you?

[@Blueforme]

Not BK

[@jameslacroix1028]

Yes because steve daughter was shot in the face with something and that dna they supposedly got was from an uncredited place and probably needs to be tossed out becusse the first place told them no match

[@bethanywhite877]

Shot? I’ve never heard anything about guns used. Where did you hear that?

[@Coco61767]

Ok “Mr Lacroix”, who are you and how would u know something like that? If true, this was never EVER officially released to the public…. Then you refer to KAYLEE as “Steve’s daughter?”..like an object?..you know his name and not hers? u are sure disconnected from victims…not judging but this seems odd to me…out of respect, everyone calls them by name…but do tell…very interesting

[@richardmullins44]

I have heard the same story, it has been at least in youtube comments.

[@richardmullins44]

@@Coco61767 how do you know what was released to the public? A lot of rubbish is released by the main stream media. In most cases, I think the information we are being given is make up.

[@Coco61767]

Ok I do remember that was initially reported Kaylee was shot to her parents by friend or relative at university ..that isss what they called and said!! then after police /coroner reported, it was stabbing s.. this is weird

[@richellefiscus9309]

I don’t understand though Kaylees parents saying they got boxes of her things from Moscow LE, while it was still a crime scene. Even said they brought her bedroom garbage can back gull, even had a rotten yogurt container in it, like they had never even looked in it or tested anything in it. They said they stacked all the boxes in her room and haven’t gone through them. So how was her room empty? Or if it was empty, how did they get boxes of her stuff back from that house? They didn’t say overnight bag, or little suitcase for a weekend, they said boxes.

[@dlosaw]

Nothing new, over descriptions. Everybody knows where the party house is everybody knows what a university town is

[@marilynfielding2760]

This whole senerio is almost laughable how can anyone even imagine how one person could commit such a horrific crime after killing 2 people the way they were killed would be to worn out to do the same to 2 more people the 2 survivors certainly knew what was going to happen for one thing thats why it took them so long to report the crime to bad they wont fess up God help BK if he is innocent 🤪🙏

[@arteporquesi]

Hearsay

[@aracoixo3288]

🎉

[@vickies197]

You didn’t even watch the full grub truck footage that was live streamed that night 🤨

[@Justseemei]

Also Emma Bailey with bushy eyebrows lived up behind the hedge row. In a home 😘g Come on buddy.the tunnels go right in that home .

[@vickies197]

They were not followed home ,it’s not a odd shaped home either , it was a add on to the original smaller house😂 people could of al ready been at that house partying for all you know! It was a known party house to! There was people in town for the game that were partying to at the grub truck who didn’t know them at all! It’s also common know,edge that all university’s and frat houses and of campus apartments party and do drugs and sell drugs in every state 🤨 you weren’t there in that house either that night ,so you don’t know what any of them were doing or if they were going to bed or still drinking! Just like the outside blood you all think it soaked through the walls 😂 never occurred to you something coulda started out there first, they never took any samples from that blood ! Also there woulda been blood on the ceilings of lower room wood floors remember🤨 no carpets anywhere ! And all parents lie about their kids after something like this happens and even when they get arrested for other crimes 🤨 nobody’s kid is that popular or angels either! You are so full of bull ! You also weren’t in that house ever! Nor was anyone you know! Also the whole country was not fearful either! We have our own crimes just as bad in our states and cities! 🙄🤨 your one of the reasons killers walk cos your not to smart !

[@janethuegerich6579]

This guy is a joke. He doesn't know what he is talking about.

[@aracoixo3288]

🎉❤😮

[@aracoixo3288]

👑🚔🚀🛰⌛️

[@richardmullins44]

It seems obvious to me that it is most likely that BK's dna was not on the sheath, and that this is a made up story. For the dna comparison they need to choose dna markers for the comparison test between the sheath dna and BK's buccal swab dna. They just need to make sure that in the list of dna markers prepared for the comparison test, no marker that is in the sheath dna is included unless it also appears in BK's dna. They are fooling the undiscerning media that BK's dna matches the sheath, when in fact it was just random matches, like absolutely anyone in the world would get. You have been hoaxed.

[@anttyzale5455]

BKs DNA is on the sheath button snap. It is a very small amount like the head of a pin. Some have said BK was most likely wearing gloves but accidentally touched the knife snap with his gloves off. That DNA with cell phone data puts him right there.

[@richardmullins44]

@@anttyzale5455 The dna story that BK's dna matched the dna on the knife sheath, is a fake. When I say the story is a fake, I mean that the reader deceives themselves. This is how propaganda works. "Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves". I don;t know exactly what happened in the BK case. The figures used below, as an illustration, are 27 markers with an allele frequence each of 10%. If you randomly select a few markers from the knife sheath dna (there are millions of markers in anyone's dna, we don't know how many there were in the knife sheaf dna fragments), and you do a comparison test with buccal swab dna from BK, it will not be an accident if you get a perfect match. The odds of such a match by chance are low (if the allele frequency of each of the 27 markers is 0.1, i.,e. 10%, then the chances of this match are one in a billion billion billion). It is not an accident. EIther (a) it was BK's dna on the knife sheath, or (b) the markers were not chosen randomly, the probability calculation is nonsense, the markers were chosen to frame BK. If BK was framed in the dna comparison test, this is because the markers were pre-selected because it was already known they were in BK's dna. What they have shown from comparing the markers is that the few markers selected from the sheath dna, were also found in the buccal swab dna. It is true that there are impossible odds at this result being arrived at by chance. But the mental leap to decide from this that it is BK's dna on the sheath is not necessary to take. The markers are identical to BK's markers. But this would only be relevant if the markers were selected randomly. To frame someone else other than BK, you would use a different list of markers again drawn from the same pool of 300 markers). It was not BK's dna on the sheath. It was his markers that were on the sheath, but these markers were identical to BK's and came from someone else. The point is that in anyone dna, we do not not need to inspect millions of markers to find a collection that matches anyone in the world. I am guessing that it can be done with 300 markers. I am guessing that from a pool of 300 knife sheath dna markers, we can 99.99 % of the time pick out 27 of these than can also be found in anyone in the world's buccal swab dna. (It will be a different set of 27 depending on who in the world's dna - in this case BK's dna, we are comparing to the knife sheath). The reader has deceived themslves. If you find 27 markers, and each of them only occurs in 10% of the worlds's population, the chances that all 27 will match a random person is very low, it is one in a bilion billion billion. However what happened in the BK case is different. The 27 markers were hand picked from a pool of 300 markers from the knife sheath, specifically because they were pre-checked to be in BK's dna.

[@anttyzale5455]

The story I read was that DNA was found on the sheath button. They ran the sample and it did not match anything in data crime base. Then they went to 23 and me data base to look for family patterns. Thats when they found his father. Then they followed KB to pennsylvania and went through his garbage for an exact match. @@richardmullins44

[@phyllissteele5599]

This is what I think happened..Kaylee was the one targeted...BK drove around those 12 x trying to catch her there,becaus3 she had alread6 left to go to Texas....she had bought a brand new range rover she wanted to show Mattie,was supposed to go home but decided to stay for her last frat party with her..all this info.came from Kailees mom...which bears out why KG went first to the room with the dog,but she wasn't there,she had gone to Matties room and gotten in the bed with her,I believe when the dog started barking since xana was awake ,because she had gotten a Grub Hub delivery a bit after 4am,woke Ethan and ask him to check what was causing the dog to bark...so he went out to check and here is where he encountered KB first in the hall where he was killed...now I know the medical examiner said they were all in bed but,there was a witness who came forward who had been in the house prior to anyone being called,that Ethan was in the hall...so he first killed Ethan,then xana,then went to Matties room and there killed Kaylee and Mattie..they were killed brutally,not just multiple stab wounds, but an angry ,evil,person had done it,this is what KAYLEES mom and sister said...if u go back and listen to the very first interview of Kaylees mom,and sister.Everyone is talking about,how he knew the layout of the house..everyone talked about this being a Part House,I think at some point KB had been there before,because the students from the community hall said they had seen him in the hall so often they thought he was a student there...the only question I have is why didn't Dylon or Brittany call 911 after D heard all the commotion, text everyone to see if they were ok,and only Brittany answered? Then called some of her sorority sisters to come over and at least 1 male friend to trample all over the scene...and waited till 12noon that day to call 911 and report an unconscious person😢