Idaho's Nuclear Navy | Idaho Experience | Season 7 Episode 2

[@jeffferguson4632]

When I interviewed with Admiral Rickover in 1982, it was largely understood that the 3 other interviews with the various expert engineers at NAVSEA-08 were the ones that gave the "green light" for acceptance into the program, while the Rickover meeting, which was required and conducted for EVERY officer to ever enter the program, was mostly the "red light" for rejection of candidates. I can also attest to the fact that I never encountered the fabled chair that purportedly had one short leg, such that the interviewee could never get comfortable while seated. The content of my interview with Adm. Rickover was so exceptional as to not be repeatable, as it would never be believed. There was NO technical content whatsoever. I taught at NNPS from 1982 to 1986 in Orlando, FL.

[@scottnunya2441]

Hmmm...you would have been one of my instructors. What subject?

[@jeffferguson4632]

​@scottnunya2441 Wow....That's WAY back, but I taught enlisted from about 8206 through maybe 840X. Then I switched to officer training for the next two years.

[@flutetubamorg]

I was Nuke enlisted and went to prototype training in Idaho in 1989. My class was the first one to go through A1W after it came out of overhaul. Final testing was delayed a bit so we ended up being there for like 8-9 months. It was a lot of hard work, but the 4 offs in Idaho Falls were awesome! Riding the bus out there and back was less awesome. I slept through my stop a couple of times, woke up and hopped off the bus and had no idea were I was. A1W was one tricky plant to learn on. Since it was an actual prototype for fleet plant, many of the systems would have different kinds of pumps in them, so we would have to learn system parameters with different pump combinations. And there were different model turbines. One quirky power plant. Buddy and I were getting a checkout on some site systems. Like support systems for the plant. Middle of February and 2 feet of snow outside and the guy tells us to go find valve NRE-1 or something like that. We were out there for like two days following pipes around looking for this damn valve. Lotta good memories.

[@tunneloflight]

This is a well done history and shows things I wasn't sure would be made public in my lifetime. There is oh so much more. Idaho, as a State and location has nearly nothing to do with it. Admiral RIckover was, is and always will be the key the success of the program and the Nuclear Navy. His legacy is a living legacy. And his singular most important contribution is not even mentioned - "Safety Culture". There is and was only one rule at NRF - reactor safety. Anything, anything, anything that in the least went against that was forbidden and excluded. In the civilian world, safety is often as Mike Rowe proclaims - "safety third". In the Nuclear Navy, it is always and only number 1. Whenever cost is a consideration, it always is elevated to first. That can never be allowed with nuclear. And that has led to the vast majority of the problems in the civilian nuclear world. They not only don't put safety first, they can't. Money comes first. But it is oh so much more than that. Rickover's approach to operations, maintenance, problem solving and myriad others is completely unique. Everyone is equal. Ideas, and concerns are sought, not just accepted from everyone. Rigid adherence to rules is mandatory. The rules can be changed. But so long as they exist verbatim compliance is mandatory. I caused several of the rules to be changed. One of those impacted the entire fleet. It took Bettis Atomic Power Labs six months to analyze and confirm. Rickover's "black box" approach was also unique. And any incident anywhere was immediately responded to on his desk in the morning with full detailed analysis. His entirely separate review team was also a critical component. As was Staff Upgrading and on-going training. His philosophy for how to train staff was never explained. It included psychologically breaking everyone so that they quit doing things whatever way they were taught, trained or learned on their own, and did it his way. On and on. NRF in Idaho also had the first two female civilian trainees. One at S5G and one at S1W. These were to be the forerunners of a coed fleet. Both did excellent. Both qualified and were the first female qualified Engineering Officers of the Watch. One was a trainee of mine. But there was a problem. The Nuclear Navy as a part of the larger navy had its own culture. That culture had to end and be changed before the fleet could become a mixed male and female population. The Nuclear Navy beyond the Navy had its own sub-culture. Everyone on board boat depends intimately on everyone else for their very lives. This leads to a unique training and learning environment. And it also led to a unique cultural environment, one which would not be acceptable anywhere else. That too had to change. During training there were issues that did arise, and that had to be addressed. But addressing individual issues did not change the culture that was the actual problem. That came to a head two years later in an incident that led to a stand down in the program, many resignations and a severe problem in training limitations that affected the entire fleet for two years before it was fully resolved and overcome. All of this was necessary and good in the end. One of the sayings at NRF was that a year there was like 10 years anywhere else. You learned that much, you grew that much, and you aged that much. It was the singular most important experience of my life. I owe that to Admiral Rickover. Unlike the Naval Officers, he did not interview we civilians. But, I did get to meet him in a must unusual circumstance. And that was a learning experience all its own. I met him a second time when he came to NRF to inspect the facility. He stood as the training officer over a young lieutenant who was standing his final qualified watch before becoming certified. The Admiral ran a drill that was the recreation of an incident that happened to me and my crew on S5G a month or two before. It was so outside of anything anyone expected, that solving it was a real challenge. I never heard anything from the Admiral about that. But here he was using my incident to train this young man. That was recognition enough. He was slower in solving it, though he did work it through. He got hung up on one final step for a time. But ultimately completed that as well. And he then had the career accomplishment of being certified as a watch-stander and EOOW by the Admiral himself.

[@weskan8722]

This brings back so many memories. I was stationed at A1W for the first six months of 1993, then went on to serve 4.5 years on the U.S.S. Nimitz. I was a nuclear Machinist Mate. Really enjoyed my time in Idaho Falls. That is where I learned to ski. Kelly Canyon was just a stone throw away and my roommates and I would go there every weekend. Also spent a day in Yellowstone on a snowmobile that is one of my best memories. When it got warm I spent some time at Craters of the Moon. Great area and I've always thought I'd like to go back.

[@gregoryhood1554]

I was in class 8103 at A1W and stayed for ELT school after most of the class shipped out to the fleet. Assisted staff with change out of the 3B3 RCP during ELT school during a reactor shutdown maintenance period. Made my NEC 3386 MM/ELT! Went to USS Nimitz, CVN-68 and was in RL Div. 1982 - 1986. I really enjoyed Idaho Falls and the area. It was a great duty station despite the grueling schedule while qualifying. Disliked the bus rides, but got used to them and learned to nap like very one else! Skied the Tetons. Made a tour of Yellowstone. Went elk hunting. Yeah, Idaho’s a great place! Navy nuclear training just about guaranteed you a job in the nuclear power industry if you didn’t make a career of the Navy. I spent 16 years working at the Waterford 3 PWR in chemistry and radiological controls fields before moving into fossil power chemistry for the same company. I’m glad to see that there is some historical preservation efforts for the Idaho NRTS. Fair winds and smooth seas! Greg Hood MM1.

[@pepintheshort7913]

I was there at the same time, ET though. Went to the Enterprise. I was just thinking how nice it would have been to get there in May, not January. Hiking at Targhee National forest and the St Anthony sand dunes, even being able to spend more time at the noise park outside of Idaho Falls. But nope. Three months of winter.

[@YolandaPullman]

Thank you to all who served our country.

[@pdoylemi]

This is interesting to me. I went to reactor prototype training in upstate New York, but I obviously was aware that Idaho was the first. I studied on the S5G. But unless things were a lot different early on, (and they may have been) there is much more to nuclear power training than this. As a reactor operator, I went from boot camp to Basic Electronics School, and then to the Electronics Technician "A" school, then to six months in Orlando at Nuclear Power School, THEN to six months of prototype training. Including boot camp, about 23 months of intense training before I could even start Submarine school. I was in for nearly three years before I got my first actual fleet assignment - which is why they made us sign 6 year enlistments, and offered big bonuses to re-enlist.

[@weskan8722]

When did you serve? In 1992 it was more streamlined then what you describe. I was on the ship after 1.5 years of schooling and boot camp. I know EMs and ETs had longer "A" schools then us MMs. All nuclear trainees were brought to boot camp in Orlando, then "A" school. MM "A" school was 12 weeks. Then we had the six months of Power School then another six months of Prototype. We had three prototypes at the time: upstate New York, a new one in SC (can't remember where exactly) and Idaho. A1W and S5G were still training, but S1W had been shutdown by that point. Then it was directly to the fleet after Prototype. No sub school for "nukes" anymore. I always thought that was strange. I was on an aircraft carrier, but a lot of my buddies went straight to their subs. The base in Orlando is gone now so I think all the nuke stuff was moved to Great Lakes and I think the Prototypes are still going in NY and SC, but not sure on any of that.

[@pdoylemi]

@@weskan8722 I joined in 1981. And you make a good point - ET's take the longest to train. I do remember some MMs who had been in less than 6 months starting Nuc School. But between boot camp, Basic Electronics, ET "A" school and a couple of short TAD assignments it was over a year before I started. I got to boot camp in San Diego April 17th, 1981, and did not arrive in Orlando until June 1982. Hell, I made 2nd Class in my first few months at school. Yeah, and taking sub school out shortens things a lot. Sub School was valuable training, I am a little surprised they quit requiring it, but not to sound too cocky, but NUCS tend to be smarter than the average bear, so I guess the Navy figure they can qualify once they get on the boat even without that. Some good memories of Orlando though. I recall one day, driving with my best buddy - he was from Wisconsin, I was from Michigan, and we were talking about how we kind of missed the changing seasons and snow in the winter, then we realized we were driving to Cocoa Beach with a cooler full of beer in January, and started laughing.

[@jeffferguson4632]

@@pdoylemi I taught "SI" (EO's, RO's, and few MM's) from 82 to 86....every 15 weeks, wash, repeat. Maybe you were my student! Best "job" I ever had. Often I was only teaching one section per cycle. Captain R.P. Greenman was CO at the time, for some reason I still remember that!

[@pdoylemi]

@@jeffferguson4632 I think you must be thinking of ET's and IC's. I never heard of an EO (equipment operator) NUC and I have no clue what an RO is. Unless those are designations for officer specialties that I am unfamiliar with. But after all these years, it is easy to forget things like these abbreviations. But that sounds like some great duty.

[@jimrowe6727]

I was in from 1976 until 1998. I went to NPS IN ORLANDO AND S5G in IDAHO.​ I went to upstate NY for 8 weeks of training on the S8G prototype prior to new construction on an Ohio class SSBN. I went back to Orlando twice as an instructor. The reference to EO and RO is an Electrical Operator and a Reactor Operator. They are not ratings but the designation of operators who controlled the electrical distribution or the operator that controlled the reactor. @@pdoylemi

[@davidleadford6511]

My Dad worked for Westinghouse as an electrician out at "The Site" in both the S1W and S5G facilities for many years. So you might say the facilities even had an impact on me.

[@davidwhitecotton6153]

God bless I’m in Rick over at Motel I mean Rick over thank you for your service and thank you for all you’ve done for the American US Navy

[@davidwhitecotton6153]

Thank you Idaho natural laboratory thank you so much you are excellent and continue excellence thank you

[@jeffwestrom531]

Well done!!!

[@davidwhitecotton6153]

Simply awesome ❤️🇺🇸👍😍

[@Zubeneshemali]

The Admiral did an amazing job in getting the US Navy on top of nuclear powered ships; the unfortunate item is that the entire nation continued with fission reactors, rather than continuing the successful Thorium powered nuclear reactor at Oak Ridge!! Thorium is safer, produces far fewer waste products, runs hotter at lower pressure, so it is good for power production, it is by far more plentiful than the Uranium isotopes, and yet, engineers continue to push the Uranium fission process instead, complaining that the instrumentation is different and U reactor control instruments don't "easily" (?) transfer to Th reactors!! Thorium SMRs, running as liquid salt cooled reactors show great promise; one is being built near Kemmerer, WY!! The recent demise of the Small Modular Reactor (SMR) conglomerate on the Idaho desert was due in part to the wastes and the expense of the U fission reactors and the perceptions about safety among the Utah partners in the planned facility!!

[@tunneloflight]

Fission of any type will never be the future. It cannot compete and has existential unsolvable problems. Admiral Rickover noted these issues and dangers in is his parting meeting with the Congress. He said that all civilian nuclear power plants should be immediately shutdown, and naval nuclear reactors while essential should be shutdown as soon as an alternative replacement for them is available. Thorium reactors do nothing to solve any of the problems that first generation and later reactors had. And it adds new and worse problems. Many of the thorium salt designs involve using beryllium in the salt - which is incredibly toxic and make any accident scenario catastrophic. Add to that the molten salt systems have an innate vulnerability for use to extract protactinium generating high purity U-233 which is ideal for nuclear weapons, combining the simplicity of the shotgun assembly designs (or spherical implosion assemblies) with the low spontaneous neutron emission rates of U-235. This makes the thorium designs an inherent proliferation risk globally. Add to this that the chemistry of the salt systems creates other hazards, like the potential for undetected concentration of fissile masses in cold legs, as happened in the original salt reactor.

[@gusdegenerate5032]

Not to drain the enthusiasm, but just like Uranium and Plutonium, Thorium reactors depend on fission reactions with neutrons, and have mostly the same fission waste products. I enjoyed my summer job at EBR-2 and heard many Admiral Rickover stories ovea career in the civilian nuclear industry

[@davidwhitecotton6153]

National Institute laboratory thank you to the state of Idaho

[@davidwhitecotton6153]

My name is put the App Store white card United States Navy I am now a piece of history at the Idaho national laboratory I just wanted to say thank you to Idaho state

[@mikehocking4836]

INEEL

[@davidwhitecotton6153]

What I said but my name is David Whitecotton and Josep in Mcclean I am now a piece of history and I will add the national airport Dory thank you to the state of Idaho

[@Zubeneshemali]

??

[@RedBeardDevelopment]

@@ZubeneshemaliI keep re-reading his comments but my hopes keep getting slashed the more I read them. I’m speechless.