Ideas and Society | Australia and China: A conversation with Paul Keating

La Trobe University’s Ideas and Society Program is pleased to present an online discussion between former Prime Minister, Paul Keating, and James Curran, a Professor of History at the University of Sydney and author of Australia's China Odyssey, on a question fundamental to the future of Australia--our relations with China and, thus, the United States.

[@fvalemus5377]

Paul Keating, the wisest politician in Australia alive, bar none.

[@buildmotosykletist1987]

Keating wisely gave us PPS which even he admits was a huge failure. 18% interest rates and left us in recession. Do you call that wise ?

[@lagringa7518]

@@buildmotosykletist1987 But his take on the international chessboard is quite astute.... and it's obvious that he is NOT a WEF lackey of which so many of our governments have been infiltrated with.

[@buildmotosykletist1987]

@@lagringa7518 : His "take" is dictated by the CCP.

[@petersmith8134]

@@buildmotosykletist1987 Do you mean Prescribed Payment System? If so it was the best system for us contractors. The scrapping of it in favour of GST was a massive mistake. Many subbies had no money to pay tax after that stopped.

[@buildmotosykletist1987]

@@petersmith8134 : i'm a builder as you'd guess from my nic. Even Keating admitted PPS was a disaster.

[@Andrew-lb1up]

And sadly, Albonese, Wong and Marles and AUKUS agreement has proven "tone didn't turn into substance". Paul Keating is a national treasure for Australia.

[@martinushardy2459]

Paul Keating's instinct and thinking are good and I remember so many stories, wish Paul long life and hapiness.

[@buildmotosykletist1987]

Good, keep remembering those stories of 18% interest rates and a seriously bad recession "we had to have".

[@stevenliew2507]

Paul Keating is truly a Politician above the rest of the present smugs on both sides of the present Australia Parliament who are devoid of any knowledge or understanding.what it means to exercise Australia own Sovereign Rights and looking after Australians first before anyone else.

[@xdgao3015]

So brilliant! There is no peer among the Aussie politicians.

[@thedolphin5428]

Aahh, have you never heard of E.G. Whitlam?

[@baronvonaux8294]

Fascinating commentary as always from PJK. A strategic mind that understands how to balance the lessons of history with the changing geopolitical landscape of the times. Approaching 80 and still would run rings around the current crop of political leaders from all sides.

[@Time4Peace]

PK is a strategic thinker for Australia. He's so right to point out that Australia pays for the submarines to be part of the American fleet with US in full control of them! And at the same time put Australia in harm's way! How dumb can that be!!

[@alfred-vz8ti]

you have to imagine they are being bribed. no one is that stupid.

[@nadiak2599]

An intelligent conversation, the questions were not headline grabbing but thought provoking with historical context, the response from Keating was once again, as relevant and sharp as ever.

[@stevenliew2507]

The moderator did an excellent job.👍

[@tomcross3000]

paul is correct on all fronts. china isn't a rival to the US, it's not a subordinate country the US could manage or have join it, it is an equal global power that the US could partner with.

[@jhhwanghwang888]

Only Man left for Australia. GOD Bless Australia THE GOD of Abraham

[@spore022008]

55

[@spore022008]

4

[@spore022008]

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[@rodgerhempfing2921]

He says china, I hear communist china, no friend of democracy.

[@llewwamn1124]

Got a mixed feeling listening to Keatings as a Chinese national. This man you got here is a true patriot who think prudently for best interest of his nation, and for that I respect him greatly. China-Australia relation would be much better (as it should be) if he is in charge. Luckily enough though, none of the China Hawks you got in Canberra got a brain as smart as his. All of the Australian aggression under those morons will fall apart as worthless misadventure.

[@knoppix87710]

Hear! Hear!

[@LovingFeelingThinking]

As a fellow Chinese national and Australian resident, I'm sorry to say that we should never underestimate the danger posed by unthinking morons, Esp powerful ones like those in Canberra across both sides of the politics.

[@patasalada2726]

Paul Keating is a true and intelligent statesman.

[@Qwikipedia]

Great conversation and as usual with PJK I could listen for hours on end. Don't have to agree with everything, just have admiration for the intellectual rigour and honesty commonly lacking in political public discourse.

[@LovingFeelingThinking]

100%

[@Capital.Bomber]

PJK in his older age certainly hasn't lost his sharpness of mind. With current Australian politics he certainly gives us much to think about!

[@kumyawlooi9704]

Mll❤❤❤❤p❤❤❤❤❤

[@kumyawlooi9704]

😢😢🎉😅😅😅😊😊😂😊

[@hansriehs5875]

Insightful discussion, thank you both!

[@LovingFeelingThinking]

That's James Curant, right? He's a prominent and excellent political analyst. One of the few who can still think critically.

[@OppoA17k-uy7qg]

Mr Paul Keating's a political pundit whose insights and views are unbiased, accurate and sharp. Kudos to Mr Keating!

[@tfalani3861]

Australia we have shot ourselves on the foot by allowing ourselves to be dragged into US hegemonic madness.

[@crypticTV]

17:50 Churchill wanted to keep India 19:00 NATO expansionism 19:45 post cold war 20:48 Germany 22:07 exasperated vengeance 23:22 brazinski 30:45 not for USA 31:45 Munich moment 34:30 reasoning - illegitimate China

[@killmrdarcy4367]

With ever and ongoing thanks to former PM Keating for his historical memory, immensity of erudition, and truth cut through -and especially in this instance in regard to his excellent China observations - while if only other Australian leaders had the same constituency of ontological gravitas given that no one approaches PJK (indeed not even Rudd or Carr) concerning foreign affairs analytical exegesis. That said, I just hope for once that the many inner city 'Keating groupie' and sycophant idolators who no doubt flooded this chat in the hope of hearing a few of PJK's best acid drops listened and heard his words. Although I've had (and continue to have) many problems with Keating over the years further to both him and Hawke having indisputably inducted the vile ideology of neoliberalism into this country in the 1980's beneath the smokescreen of, in Keating's words, "freeing up the place", Keating's intellect is unsurpassed, with the only modern Prime Ministerial challenges to his much broader intellect having so far come from either Whitlam and/or Malcolm Fraser. Anyway, may he continue to be around for many years to come! With thanks to the fantastic James Curran and the Ideas and Society Program for providing this important discussion, while my only disappointment was hearing that PJK supped/sups with the war criminal, Henry Kissinger. Nevertheless, let us hope that Keating had/has a long spoon!

[@hegemonersmith1048]

Malcolm Fraser had no real intellect. As a scion of privilege, he was sent to Oxford where he did a degree in Politics, Philosophy, and Economics. He was awarded third class honours - in my day that was regarded as a humiliating result. Certainly not the achievement of a person of even moderate intellect.

[@soulsurvivor8293]

​@@hegemonersmith1048 Agreed, Fraser's most notable achievement was being the begining of the long run in dismantling Australia and it's people to sell to the US and China piece by piece. Additionally, OP's take on Rudd is utterly flawed. Rudd is essentially Keatings equivalent when it comes to the US, as opposed to Keatings expertise on China. Honestly, if they were able to work together each as Foreign delegates to their respective Nations of Expertise; They could work miricles in military descalation. Then build a proper cooperative approach to working toward a civil discussion with the numerous disputes China has with it's surrounding nations. Even potentially have US & China form a united delegation with other substantial world powers like the UK, the Saudi's, both South & North Korea (the latter with China's assistance) and Japan to make an appeal to Putin to stop this invasion. Having essentially the entire world politely asking him to stop the invasion and fix what has been done should work, as it's also somewhat of an ultimatum from the entire world to Putin and the Russian government. No nation, not Russia or China or even the US would be dumb enough to believe they could take on the entire world. When faced with such a proposition their own people would revolt if such a Nations leader decided to take on the whole world. It's insane that we are essentially at this point where we need to genuinely unite essentially the entire world to stop this sort of invasion. Worse still, we need to descalate two global super powers fromba potential war in order to stop another global super power's unlawful invasion of a smaller neighbouring nation. Lest we fall into another World War over two Super Powers attempting to reclaim a small part of their old regime's nation. Its utter insanity.

[@LovingFeelingThinking]

​@@soulsurvivor8293sorry I think it's naive to think Russia can be persuaded to stop the invasion unilaterally. It takes 2 palms to clap - you need to tell to the US to negotiate with Russia to stop the war. Russia has legitimate security concern that has to be addressed before it would end the war voluntarily. NATO expansion is a key issue here. Also there's no way China would do the US' bidding when the US is trying to stangle China technologically and economically. China is forced to work with Russia. No amount of diplomacy could change that. Real action (stop the containment of China) is what's missing. But asking the US to stop containing China is asking the leopard to change its spot.

[@mathewforsyth2481]

Wow, why can’t we have leaders like that now in Australia

[@alyasagan3620]

Few politician make senses.. Paul Keating is one of fhe top ones..

[@harrisng3041]

Taipei. Once Taipei settles down it's differences with Beijing ,wholeheartedly, there shall emerge a great Glorious New Nation, with Taiwan put warmly back into the One Great China. For this to happen,Taipei must make an effort to distance herself from Washington. ... Harris Ng YM 👻🌷 👍🇨🇳🇬🇸

[@MrZakatista]

I doubt Australia is capable of doing anything but follow the leader. The whole society is saturated with an aggressive mendacity. Most open minded Australians with any gumption try to leave. Paul Keating has been despised by Australians most of his career - precisely because he is intelligent and cultured.

[@thedolphin5428]

Lol. Nothing wrong with following a leader IF THAT LEADER is a true leader towards great global goals, like Whitlam and Keating (and Putin and Xi for that matter).

[@mikerowe402]

Where did we go wrong with individuals like Paul Keating compared to the level of thinking we display today in current politics.

[@OppoA17k-uy7qg]

Mr Paul Keating is a man of honour. He is honest,, fair and unbiased in his opinion of China. Mr Keating is absolutely correct to say that China is Australia's friend and biggest trading partner. What makes Australians think that China wants or. has the ability to invade Australia? Kudos to Mr Keating, a true and fair- weathered friend of China,! Long live Australia and China friendship!!

[@thedolphin5428]

Don't ever forget that Whitlam INITIATED THAT from 1971- 1975. Hawke continued it. Keating modernised it.

[@thedolphin5428]

It's very informative, through discussions like this, to see that PJK is so much deeper, so much more of a global political visionary, that the cartoonish "political thug" the MSM has always painted him as. Parliament, 60 Minutes, 7.30 report, electotal speeches, etc, are all so superficial, and insult the intelligence of Australians.

[@zaffvideos5688]

Why cant we him Back as PM again? we are doomed!

[@alex1520]

@Scooby Sativa I wish we could have him back as PM :( Paul's been asked before about coming back and more or less said "not happening" :( Best PM we ever had, hands down (I am sure I will cop some flak for making that statement (the typical "recession we had to have" trolls will appear))

[@rakadus]

Paul Keating assessment of India is spot on. Hope and wish a lot more of Indian "strategic thinkers" and mandarians in the Indian Foreign Office. As long as China keeps its fingers off the Himalayas.

[@s.e.wagger3888]

I'll never forget when he referred to the Liberals as the "Stone-age Mutant Whinging Liberals". (Back when the TMNT cartoon was being watched by every kid in Australia) In a battle of wits with Keating, Howard and the rest were all unarmed!!!

[@SelamatArtist]

That is a Statesman of the calibre of strategic thinkers like Kissinger, Carter and Lee Kuan Yew.

[@davidwilkie9551]

The dominant concept perceived from Professor Warren Mosler's MMT reference to Pirate Empire Colonisation, a human trait globally, was the Provisioning tactics of involving local people in conditioning themselves to foreign Transactional behaviours, ..another version of inherent human behaviour that is a fundamental mathematical property of QM-TIME Completeness. Everyone around the planet is required to understand what, how and why political posturing has to be carefully replaced with knowledgeable positioning. Positioning by realistic policy is a long-term process of fact recognition, the opposite of opinion worshipping day to day.

[@NaturalDota2]

WE WANT PAUL KEATING!!!!!!!!!!❤

[@NaturalDota2]

AUSTRALIA LET'S GO!!!!!!!

[@fbd101060]

He is so right in so many ways - for example indians thinking about the west . There are +/- 10 million Indians in the middle east dependent on work visas etc,. as Paul said Indian politicians are more concerned about their geo strategic partners than the west

[@stephenyang2844]

Australia is an exemplary democracy with outstanding leaders ,institutions and economic development, unlike its cousin nation America. Trouble is it can't shake its Anglo-american link to fully participate in its domicile-Asia.

[@lilypang7590]

Listen to this wise man!!!! Rarer…..😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

[@paulmatters2641]

Runs rings around the bumbling Albo. A real Labor leader.

[@alex1520]

Paul runs rings around any politicians we have, a brilliant man. They're "all tip and no iceberg" as PJK once said. ;)

[@rodgerhempfing2921]

More articulate for sure

[@loKaisa-og8yx]

The old generation of politicians, of course I'm talking about the smart and great ones like Keating, always hold a sharp insight of the reality of the world and they are pragmatic while nowadays politician in the west are full of ideology, freedom and democracy, human rights etc. They lecture and point fingers at sometimes viciously attack others whom don't share their "values“ but at the same time they can barely mind their own bussiness domesticly.The current genaration of politicians whom grew up under the heavy influnce of American liberal ideology are giant babies really. They barely know a thing about the reality and what they are good at doing and what they cares about are show bussiness and get a good looking picture. Look at Justing Treadu, you will know what I am talking about.

[@magnaviator]

I really wish all politicians were of the same caliber as Paul Keating...my god what the US could accomplish with someone like him leading. What went wrong with democracy?

[@jimmycook872]

When will all these traitors be round up and held to account. When will there be transparency And Justice For All.

[@BigTimeBoozer]

Um, never... but thanks for asking!

[@davidwilkie9551]

An aside observation on post colonial culture, the Newfoundland release from foreign dominance gets a honeymoon period of activity before the imperious attitudes of old family groupings reasserts, ..that's the heirachical structure of the dominant Superpredators of planet Earth. The people who were used to subjugate others lose hope for themselves when Empires disguised as democracy or Power and Glory etc in the honour system collapse. (Which is natural and normal cycling in pulse-evolution) In short, Imperialism is a Planetary Death penalty, the obvious state of MAD Mentality Nuclear Weapons subsidisation of anti human political party divisions.

[@buildmotosykletist1987]

All critical comments are being deleted....

[@jamesclarke2789]

yours hasn't.... (See what I did there, I also added the .... thing for ominous effect.)

[@buildmotosykletist1987]

@@jamesclarke2789 : Indeed 3 of my comments were deleted.

[@glennplumb2313]

It’s respectful to acknowledge the owners of the land there is no need to go overboard highlighting past & present Elders the tribe is equal & indigenous who have passed should not be mentioned out of respect for Native beliefs!

[@thedolphin5428]

Ha, 1hr 17 minutes on KZbin, to an audience of xx. Wtf? Why aren't such forums getting wider exposure?

[@Shaq6322]

You were the leader of a vassal state of US, mate. What kind of a vassal are you that you expected gratitude from your master.

[@elscampbadurka1569]

he common senses geo politics off the cuff , that' can only come from a broad realistic understanding and for that he's dismissed labelled from our media shows punters exactly the where's what in Australia's vassel state foreign policy

[@John-gf8pr]

I like pk

[@sicmuvva11]

I really hope they are watching this because if this goes ahead I will never vote for them again.

[@adrianwhyatt1425]

Orações ortodoxos de manha

[@carlmanerhaim6310]

edrftgyhuj A dilemma for Australia: the left-wing AU government, the Green Party (their party program was founded by the Nazis in the 1933 Reichstag elections) and the Nazi survivors of the 1980s in Germany re-established the Green Party. Suppose that the AU destroys its entire population, the impact on climate change on Earth 510.1 million km² will be zero. The plans of the green leaders of the AU are the destruction of industry, animal husbandry, etc. The AU is at war with Russia. conflict with Israel and China. They were going to win the war with China over Taiwan, 7470 km from the AU. Chinese Army (budget 229.4 billion US dollars) 2,035,000 personnel and the largest fleet in the world. China is a BRICS member with 3.21 billion people. "For the war with China," the AC is purchasing weapons from the time of preparation for WW2: HIMARS systems, 75 Abrams M1A2 SEPv3 tanks, sea mines. The division of the money of the State Budget of the AU between the military-industrial complex and officials is going well. At the same time, AUKUS is losing the economic war with the Kremlin and, of course, losing the war in Ukraine. Although AUKUS has a lot of nuclear submarines. Gov charlatans and the media "do not know" about the new era of supersonic missiles or projectiles. The main goal of green AUs is the impoverishment of the population, unlimited power and repression, as during the coronovirus. Deployment of US military bases on the territory of the AU against China, the BRICS countries? It can and should lead to a pre-emptive strike by China, Russia or one of the BRICS countries against the AU. Ridding the AU of the left AU government would lead to the construction of nuclear power plants. Falling electricity prices by 20 times. Mass construction of hospitals, factories and social housing. Increasing pensions for different groups. Significant reduction in the cost of living. The AU is very rich in minerals, water, livestock, cereals, wine, coal, farms and more. The AU can live no worse than Saudi Arabia. The AU has no choice - vital. Take a position position, policy and status of the state in which it does not participate in wars, conflicts or disputes between other states international neutrality. Not to provide their armed forces to the belligerents; Do not provide your territory for use by the belligerents (basing, transit, flight, etc.); Do not discriminate against any of the parties in the supply of weapons and military goods (that is, the restrictions are either the same, or there are none at all).

[@jamesclarke2789]

What a mass of incoherent ramblings

[@jsyo9639]

We ve far too many war hawks in Australia

[@geoffmccoll4640]

If the introduction was not so long, I would have gotten a university degree.

[@thedolphin5428]

So smart and wise. But let us not ignore that THIS Keating, HERE, has had 28 intervening years of retired learning and maturation as a global thinker. While in office, any PM is busy putting out fires 24/7 ... iow, no time for extended deep reading and such big picture stuff as HE ESPOUSES NOW. All a good argument to vote in an elderly statesman -- not some young party apparatchik. Imo, the system is fkd. It encourages naive party frontmen, not national leaders.

[@metaphosV]

What's the difference between Wang Yi and Penny Wong? You can't go Wong with Wang .... LOL

[@ceciliamay3088]

Australia is not Communist

[@emptybook1458]

Paul is the most admirable prime minister of Australia but still he failed on sri Lankan civil war and consiquancly lead to a thamil people genocide in sri lanka on watch rude Rudd labour government of Australia. How can this country be a part in Asia?

[@theaussiewhinger]

Completely unintelligible. 🤣

[@hegemonersmith1048]

So the Tamil genocide is Australia’s fault? Don’t be silly.

[@stevenliew2507]

The Sri Lanka+Tamil Tiger will be a political abyss few of us will know much or understand. This is due to our lack of knowledge of how both cultures are, Indian - Hindu vs Sri Lanka - Shingalist ( I hope my spelling is correct. )

[@boysiedent6149]

HOW CAN IT BE POSSIBLE TO DISCUS A 4000 YEAR OLD CIVILIZATION WITH AN ASSUMED CIVILIZATION - BASED ON THE OFF-SPRING OF CRIMINALS - WHO BY THEIR SUBDEQUENT PATHOLOGICAL ACTIONS - HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT THEY - HAVE NEVER REPENTED THIER PAST CRIMINAL ACTIONS ?

[@rodgerhempfing2921]

Is the Voice just a trojan horse?

[@sensemusicofficial]

you need to stop being an American .. saying you represent an Australian university ..

[@hithere6601]

So, apparently regional powers like China ought to become moderators and facilitators - the job that US is doing now (well or badly is another matter). Well, intent and emotional maturity of a great power is everything. In this regard we are told China as a regional benign 'stabiliser.' Really? China has afoot territorial disputes with 24 neighbours ! What about 'minor' incidents starting with Sino-Vietnamese war, annexation of Tibet, ongoing genocide of Uighurs, recent and long running territorial claims and provocations of Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, Japan, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Malaysia, South Korea, North korea, Myanmar, Brunei, Singapore, incursions into Taiwanese air and sea territories etc. What about diplomatic forays into central Asia, Sri Lanka the South Pacific in an attempt to dominate? What about the war of words that is making China's neighbours fearful and has sent Japan into re-armament frenzy. Like Putin and Trump, Xi proposes to 'make China great again' significantly in response to the West's patent historical disdain, goading and triumphalism (ie lack of respect). When China throws clumsy tantrums to scare off the scary world, it is portrayed as aggressive (which it was and is) and ultimately evil. China does not display emotional maturity nor a modicum of benevolent intent to be a regional moderator.

[@keyboardmanyoutube3189]

This is 100% lie and full of propaganda from west. Your comment shows lacking of critical thinking and Chinese history. I don’t even know where to start. Vietnam war is retaliation as Vietnam started wars at boarders; Tibet has been part of China even before Qing dynasty; where are the dead bodies of Uygher genocide? Taiwan is part of China and it is in Taiwan government’s constitution too. And so on Man, like Roger said, go educate yourself

[@hithere6601]

I actually wish China all the best and have the greatest respect for it. Unfortunately your response, yet again does China a disservice.

[@seanmorris5185]

Disingenuous drivel

[@stevenliew2507]

Why is your sudden interest on the Uyghurs now? What about the Muslims in Afghanistan, the Muslims in the Iraq War ( war created out of falsehood by the late Collins Power ) and more of other wars with Australia troops being included?

[@hithere6601]

@@stevenliew2507 two wrongs do not make a right