If Artosis took over StormGate...

[@chongli297]

I think there's a real danger that by attempting to bridge the gap between StarCraft fans and WarCraft 3 fans, StormGate ends up not appealing to either group! It's like trying to combine football with baseball! No! That's not how you make a cool new sport!

[@GaetanoEvangelista]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWTMloimbZ2cgpo&ab_channel=RottenTomatoesClassicTrailers I beg to differ

[@Xpew_pewX]

But if you combine soccer and football you get rugby

[@michaelproano1449]

@@Xpew_pewX got em

[@scatterlite2266]

Yeah Dawn of war 3 tried to appeal to both Moba and Dow fans, which didnt work out at all.

[@mgs85]

@@Xpew_pewXwhat do rugby and soccer have in common?

[@TallestFiddle]

Trying to listen to Artosis give his genuine thoughts with all the spew from chat on the screen 😂

[@KingChewyy]

I Watched this stream crazy toxic things were said. can't repeat.

[@JerryS-zb2lf]

Its a great way to learn ignoring the BW old heads, I get it I like BW but shit let the man play another RTS.

[@HYDRAdude]

Make it so you only get the buffs from killing your opponents creeps. You can still kill and deny the creeps on your side of the map, but you don't get any buffs from doing so. Seems like an obvious change to me.

[@ArtosisTV]

That’s a cool idea seriously

[@Sunyatasattva]

Or remove the concept of “my creeps” and “their creeps” and put a creep camp in the middle. IIRC, the idea of creeps *was* to encourage early interactions between players, not just early action in the map.

[@AAkCN1]

@@Sunyatasattvaboth good ideas

[@somaloll]

its kinda funny how theres way more people interested in watching stormgate content rather than playing the game themselves, myself included

[@nikokrisp5273]

practically every RTS tbh, feel like when you watch gameplay its some cool 2 generals going out at each other with their strats and stuff, but when you play it, its a giga stress high adrenaline game where you only have fun for one moment and either stomp or get stomped.

[@sarfqersarweqar]

I like to change the creep camps in other way - creep camps gives energy to your top bar abilitiyes for ex. rework tier 3 top bar ability add for vanguard barracks upgrade that barracks can deploy lancer or exo squad from the sky wherever player wants. so actually it gives real adventage

[@michaelproano1449]

I like this idea

[@phyvo]

Creeps powering top bar abilities is essentially what immortal gates of pyre is doing, and imo I think that's a good approach to giving creeps a purpose in a non hero rts

[@JamesSmithTexas]

Just lmao when a random guy on KZbin can come up with better gameplay mechanics on a whim than Frost Giant devs.

[@DaveHagerty]

I do play and I do watch, I do know Stormgate is missing something but I don't know what it is. It's close, I want to like it. Hope they figure it out.

[@skotmongoose]

The game needs to look better and feel better. Like theres some weight to the fighting. Needs an identity. I know you said in your last video that its not important, but it absolutely is. From there we can start to tweak things like game speed and maps. Without it, nobody cares.

[@Tr0tim]

I genuinely still believe the biggest reason Stormgate gets a lot of "isn't fun to play" and "isn't fun to watch" comments is that the sounds are much worse than those of BW, SC2, WC3, or even WC2

[@snowdrop9810]

​@@Tr0timthey are changing. A lot. Some are better, some worse. To me its feeling like the sounds are still in alpha lol, thats how often and how drastically they change. A lot of stuff has gotten better though especially voicelines. Those are actually (mostly) quite good now. Imo the biggest issue is the shitty balance, no one wants to play a game where you're stuck at home, on a timer, and never able to move out. Or a game where once your opponent has X upgrade the game is over and you can no longer win. Stuff like that just isnt fun. And SG has that aplenty. Visually some things have gotten better, specifically hellborne fire now looks awesome, but the rest are still in dire need of improvement, and overall the game needs a LOT more work even still. But work does seem to be going on at the very least, and decently fast, even if their deadlines are being moved back due to (unshared) reasons.(though, being fair to them, a major update every 1.5 months is an absurd pace, moving back an update for a month doesnt seem that unreasonable). Personally, what I *TRULY* think is missing from stormgate, is less competitive, more fun based, sub game modes & arcade.

[@ChefJeff789]

This. Identity matters. The first time I saw a siege tank it was badass and I wanted to play that game. The first time I saw an Atlas I wasn't just underwhelmed, I was worried. "WTF did I back?"

[@Jean-LucPicard85]

Problem with SG is that it looks like a Chinese knock off of a better thing. It feels cheap and unappealing compared to decades older games or even some modern indies. I'll gladly be wrong but I don't think it has much of a future no matter how many gameplay and map changes are made.

[@La0bouchere]

iirc he didn't say that this doesn't matter, just that it's not as important to do for early testing

[@DrBussanich]

I think we are all asking the wrong question. Why are maps flat game boards with ramp connected levels, which are that way due legacy graphical limitations of 2 decades ago? Why not real valleys with real fog, not a flat opacity? Why isn't this terrain map system representative of a revolution of tech available? Like a small fortnite map, but with RTS pieces at a higher POV? Environmental challenges could change strategy. We've played SC2 for many years, I don't want a reskinned same thing. That time is past.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

200% agreed

[@mgs85]

They set out to make a blizzard style RTS, because those sell and play really well. What you’re suggesting is what other RTS’ well outside of Blizzard have tried, and those games have never and will never be StarCraft. Now that the engine is built, they cannot just completely change direction like that and build a game for dynamic environment. That’s out of the realm of possibility at this point. There’s always been a lot more ideas about games floating around than there are realistic or worthwhile ones. Elevation is a bad one, for sure, don’t forget that you have to fit all of this stuff on a screen (no one wants to be zooming in and out while playing a high APM RTS).

[@IvanS-n5f]

cause that would take innovating and what they want is to make a luke warm tasting shit that copies things from the past.

[@k1mura92]

Agreed, good input. I've been baffled at people even caring about Stormgate. We have bw remastered. There will never be a "classic" RTS game that ever gets close. Remastered has an active community and a ranked MMR ladder. Why would people be excited for a game like Stormgate? Just play BW or wc3. An actually new RTS which takes advantage of not only all the tech available, but also everything we know about balance, meta game etc., where they dare to be truly creative and make something unique - that would be exciting! There's so much that can be done today, its actually crazy. They could take inspiration from the MOBA genre (which would almost be a bit ironic!). I would also enjoy a "realistic" RTS with modern warfare and thorough use of real life weaponry and weapon technology.

[@k1mura92]

@@mgs85 Why would people try to make a new starcraft, though? BW remastered exists, has a ladder an an active community. Starcraft 2 tried for years but never got close, and blizzard poured everything into that project for many, many years. There will never be another starcraft: brood war, and its not even needed - we already have brood war remastered. People that want brood war should play brood war. People who wants something else, should ask for developers to make something else.

[@BallBusta]

I'm in agreement with almost everything he's said. The early game on the normal sized map is uninteresting and anyone tuning in to watch the game for the first time is going to see that, fall asleep, and leave. The only thing I don't want to see is heroes. That's probably just a personal preference, but I never really enjoyed playing an RTS with heroes and creeps. It felt like the time I could be scouting the enemy and planning an attack was wasted on autistically remembering creep timings.

[@StudioSmashkab]

Yeah, so, right now I play Exclusively Vanguard and I really like the whole rank mechanic, it makes micro really fun because you have variance inside units of the same type. I like the creeps and control points a lot and I also like the aspect of farming ranks for my units BUT I agree that more engagements and contesting the control points would be better. I've been thinking about this a bit too, and it might be cool if they embraced both elements of that. For instance what if there were always 2 very easy to farm camps VERY close. like I'm talking main/natural locations. Then rest are heavily centralized or maybe even in a line across the center of the map. equal distance from each player and try to pace the game in a way where each faction can reliably contest those centralized camps at the same point. You could even go as far as giving a bonus to the farm camps if the other player controls the entire center to give the pinned back player a chance to break back onto the center.

[@itsQuilow]

Faster units, lower ttk, smaller maps, no creep camps. We are designing SC2. Not that I disagree with any of your points but it appears that most of the things people think that is turning people away from RTS are just core multiplayer RTS fun features

[@Haluc7N]

This may be one of those cases where "people do not really know what they want/need", but for me personally I do not agree with almost any of that. I actually like the pace (meaning units speedd, ttk) - as said you are basically making SC2 at this point. I do not miss DT's, I do not miss instalose features like widow mines/Disruptors/banelings. I like that the army dies just a little bit slower but not actually too slow (especially when some AoE is in place). Working with map size seems like a good start to make the game feel better. Also I find the creeps idea in itself interesting but probably needing a bigger redesign to actually achieve the goals it is trying to instead of working against those goals by accident (which is improve interaction between players outside their bases in the early game). Right now those creeps seem like a copy pasted mechanic that does not feel in the entire game at all. There is nothing built around this mechanic and as shown if you take it out of the game completely you might not even realise something is missing.

[@La0bouchere]

I don't think those are necessarily core features. It seems more likely that SC2 is a local maximum in possible RTS space, and they just went a little bit away from it instead of finding a different local maximum. This means all the things they thought would be iterative changes were actually just small steps downhill. The obvious fixes are to go back towards SC2, but the cool thing to do would be to take some of these things much farther and develop something way different. That would probably require one person with a strong vision to be in charge and I don't think they have that.

[@Appletank8]

what if creeps only spawned in later in the game?

[@eemajinemirror9249]

As StormGate is atm, it is as bleak and identity-less as it gets. I would definitely go with the changes you suggest. (SC bias in the context of a "spiritual successor" game is a good thing.) Happy to hear that the SG dev team has been hearing your feedback. All best :=)

[@andreleclerc7231]

Have creep be random and not symmetrical and be part of scouting to see if it's worth it to make a push for it.

[@riuoku]

This game is done. The best it can do is to sell rights to its engine to a more capable company and let them start from scratch.

[@washedfrank7233]

Could maybe take creeps in the direction of "power weapons" typically seen in FPS, maybe they aren't there at the start, but they spawn in certain locations at certain intervals so there is some risk/reward and knowledge/baiting strategy that could evolve from it?

[@spador]

I would like a world where they bring the two comminities together… perhaps via 2 different game modes? One with hero’s and creeps one without?

[@almightyhydra]

Agree with smaller maps but creep camps are fine if they're placed in such a way to encourage being aggressively territorial and take risk for reward e.g. exposed area containing resource or siege camp, or central vision tower. The other thing with smaller maps is that you need two base econ, particularly as Celestial and Vanguard. Maybe something could be done with a half-expansion in the main base but near cliff/trees so it's not defended for free.

[@conorlavelle9748]

goddamn the contrast between artosis earnestly trying to work out how to improve stormgate vs the pure cancer scrolling in the chat is wild

[@LichKingg23]

Smaller maps ideed, but central creeps to contest and fight your enemy over it.

[@joepkippensnuiver2969]

I would like a mix of maps with creeps and without. I think it is a neat idea, but I think it can be interesting how the dynamics shift with or without creeps, especially of tournaments will start to be a thing and you get best ofs.

[@yjlom]

the problem here is it's hard to balance the economy for both scenarii

[@radiobrain94]

I've played a bunch of co-op and honestly the creeps are boring and just give you money in the early game to get your build going faster. In WC3 the creeps all have different abilities and damage types and the leash range is something you can exploit if you're skilled, plus they drop a randomized item and are in areas where you can get creep jacked and take a ton of damage so it's more risk/reward. Makes for more fun viewing experience for sure

[@makuta101937]

I think you're right but imo its simply too little too late. I'm not planning on trying it again unless i see DRASTIC changes and even then im not sure. There really is just nothing appealing to me about stormgate. I dont like the look/feel, i dont care about the setting, singleplayer sucks, im not interested in coop, and the 1v1 is AT BEST a slightly worse version of sc2.

[@JamesSmithTexas]

This. The discussion of what to change and improve is way too late. They didn’t listen to any of the feedback about the core game and art style. They would have to redesign the entire game from the ground up at this point. Nobody cares anymore.

[@Unormalism]

Stormgate is the next iteration of "let's fix the RTS genre!" For a while people were trying to fix macro gameplay and resource management by streamlining it down to barebones. Stormgate is trying to add objectives to the map to compete over. Fundamentally there was nothing wrong with how it used to work, and the implementation has just caused problems. Card games suffered the same, with decades of people trying to "fix" the "problem" of magic the gatherings lands dictating the pace of the game and deck construction, ueually with similarly doomed results. Zero Space is doing what Stormgate is doing, but with more purpose and innovation.

[@vlad7158]

I don't agree with MtG example here. I see nothing wrong with avoiding lands.

[@ddenozor]

I don't play SG I lost interest early access so I won't give any opinions. But it's awesome seeing the developers are open to shape the game together with players.

[@JamesSmithTexas]

Huh ? They didn’t listen to any of the player feedback in the first place and that’s why the game is dead. Players warned them from the start about the Fortnite art style and the core problems.

[@realgrandrew]

I paid for stormgate, now I'll pay for you to take it over!

[@skiks3562]

I was surprised at how much the smaller map size improved the pace of the game. Broken Crown seemed like an odd choice to me because it is one of the smaller maps out there now, but the lite version made for some very cool games. I do feel like it might be too small to account for any additional bases, but it's a great proof of concept. I found that the creep-less version did not actually change as much as I thought, but again, Broken Crown already felt like a smaller map with decent creep placement. A map like Lost Hope ( huge with camps all around the edges) are more what lead to a lot of down time. No creeps did improve the pacing a bit, but the map size change had a way bigger impact. Personally, I like the idea of creeps without heroes, but not as a key part of the game's economy. I think vision, healing and speed camps are interesting objectives to play around, but they should be small side pieces that can add some wrinkles to how a map can be played, or a small reward for controlling space. They should not be the linchpin of every strategy. I would want to see the game experiment with smaller maps overall, fewer creeps per map with a MUCH lower resource reward, and having them in more centralized areas where they will be contested more. Let expos be in isolated spots at the edge of the map to spread attention thinner.

[@234takashi]

What about keeping creeps, but only having a single creep on any individual map?

[@Kevmoeman]

I think highground advantage needs to be really strong for players to just move out on the map for the sake of being out on the map, creep camps arnt needed. A lot of bw maps have this highground in the center or lowground 3rd bases that just force the players out on the map to contest, because highground in bw is an insane advantage. Just my 2c

[@markototev]

Would love another podcast on the topic with Tyler.

[@marcusrehn6915]

What about moving the spawn points closer rather than making the maps smaller?

[@politeesports4611]

More of that please! ❤

[@Junebug89]

It is really a bit funny to look at this "we need smaller maps" approach through the lens of the launch of wings of liberty, when the game had smaller maps to begin with put in by the devs and everyone doing their best to jam bigger and bigger maps in there (think tal'darim altar, whirlwind, atlantis spaceship etc). Considering these are a bunch of the same devs, poor guys are probably thinking they cannot win. They are different games, of course, but yeah... haha.

[@Eliteownage]

I like the smaller maps idea. I want Stormgate to succeed so I can get a gf. No thank you to the heroes.

[@ZombieApocalypse09]

They should add heroes to 1v1 for sure. They clearly wanted to make a hero RTs with the lower TTK and the heroes in every other mode (campaign, co-op, and the upcoming team mayhem 3v3). so just add them to 1v1 already!

[@Stranzua]

I tried going to Artosis Cast 2 and I don't see the games.

[@ametora1231]

is it possible to have a balanced game both with and without heroes? Can there be a heroes option before a match that the addition of heroes doesn't imba the game?

[@mckendrick7672]

Yeah when I first tried Stormgate I immediately thought it was just too slow, and the Koreans will play at 1.2x speed or something just like in SC, hence ruining the whole point of them trying to make the game slower. I don't really think it's possible to achieve what they're trying to go for - something between WC3 and SC2. The two games just have very different pacing and styles.

[@mustard9933]

Its probably too late at this point but the legit reason I don't watch Artosis stream is his insufferable cesspool of a chat.

[@dshlango]

I dont watch bc of this Mario Luigi Porn stuff. And yes its too late for SG

[@BSqwerty]

They reflect him and he permits it

[@La0bouchere]

feature not a bug

[@andrewtoledo181]

To me, the existence of creeps are fine IF they arent the focus of the match. At the moment, they provide too much benefit to the match, so what you end up getting is PvE for a large portion of the game. Creeps super nearby your base, just fine. They act like a resource that you have to remember to capture, but the creeps in the middle of the map should not have much crazy macro/resource weight. Otherwise you get players just creeping for half the game.

[@jc716-1]

Stormgate needs a build similar to Crazy Zerg then it would be good.

[@BSqwerty]

If Artosis took over Stormgate it would be a 2dimensional stickman battle simulator developed in flash player

[@yjlom]

hey, SW is 3d! of course, z only matters to a subset of units, but still

[@RancorSnp]

I fully believe that as soon as the map editor and therefore UMS's are added - StormGate is going to pop off really good. I'm already itching to create content. As for the player vs player experience - I do trust that the devs will get it to a better place, a bit too early to tell still, looking forward to seeing all of the units, I want creeps to be less about economy and more about being obstacles and I NEED line upgrades. Only "interesting" upgrades is boring, I NEED to feel my army get stronger as the game progresses. And yeah map design is one area where the game can pop off - more Warcraft inspiration in Map design less StarCraft inspiration has potential here, StarCraft 2 maps are boring for casual viewers - and viewers need to be excited about the game

[@Bleachz0rs]

I do agree the games were more fun to watch. I agree with all your ideas of making it even better. I like the idea of creeps but it’s hard for me to see how to make them feel impactful without breaking the game and making them too overpowered. Maybe time gating creeps? Like you get certain low level ones unlocked immediately then throughout the game bigger ones comes out with more impactful rewards. One of my personal feelings, is that the game just doesn’t make you build enough buildings. There’s less building management and sim city. They take up less space on the map. And they also look like nothing on the mini map. It gives a feeling of just less stuff in the game, less epic ness per se. Lol. But also it removes a lot of the interesting ways you can use building strategically. So that’s the one idea I have on top of yours.

[@ZeNd0kUn]

@ArtosisTV my thoughts on the KOTH2. I think creeping is really not an issue at all. I don't think players are simply creeping and not engaging even in bigger maps. Creeps and camps have become a strategic choice in Stormgate that make the game unique. Creeping allows you to know where enemy army is. Shall i take speed camp and rush? Shall i take health camp and launch an assault with safe retreat zone? Shall i take enemies' creep camps first to deny them some income? It is neither SC2 nor is it WC3. It was painful to see some hurt units without a healing camp. It was painful to see one-basing without creep income. Infernals don't have units to turn into fiends if needed. Also, it begs the question, if maps are forced to be small for the sake of engagement, how will bigger maps and macro games even happen? Should we only have Xel'Naga cavern type maps and no Alcyone type maps? The problem with Stormgate imho right now is game speed, getting the economy going, making units faster. Income is slightly slower with 4 per worker for 2 factions, build times longer, units generally move slower than SC2. This is what makes that initial build slow and potentially boring for some viewers/or players. We want big strategic macro games that require decision making mid to late game. We want good back and forth, possible come-backs. Unit balance and fine-tuning game speed/income rate is what I think needs some serious analysis on. Just my 2 cents.

[@mgs85]

Well then you’re just wrong lol - Stormgate, the more people played it, turned into passive farming of creep camps until you got big enough. There was no reason to rush, or attack before this point as it was demonstrably worse than farming creep camps. Not to say that you couldn’t do so, and even win by doing so, it was just worse.

[@Societyman123]

They should add some sort of system where you can make your own custom macros and then make the game more sophisticated 💯

[@petercriscuola]

No creeps pls! No heroes. Faster pace.

[@kibargolio]

God bless you, thx^^

[@dangfxn771]

Its surprising artosis said a hero based stormgate rts could work bc he hates heroes

[@diegobuenovillafane869]

He just want to see the project to success. Its nice of him..

[@ChessJourneyman]

Because the game is so trash even adding heroes would make it less trash, but still trash.

[@lysanderhuynh]

I think Hero based RTS is a good idea like WC III, but it is too much micromanagement. For example, I played SC 2 with fast base building, and I switched back to WC III, after awhile, to find out their build style is different. Someone can have a level 10 hero, but you have like a level 8 one with 3/3 units. This is why people like early to mid game and not too much on late game. I will continue to watch Stormgate to look for changes.

[@maximilianw9671]

Stormgate has no identity. It just takes some stuff from other games and by doing so it misses the chance to become a game on its own. It is a way worse Starcraft 2 in a world where Starcraft 2 already exists. This simply cant be a success, they have no idea what makes a good game.

[@lambdasixtwo8808]

Things I agree with is increased speed and smaller maps to make encounters more entertaining. I don't agree with removing creep camps buy if anything I want them reduced to only 1 to 3 max per map so the soli creeping phase is down to a minimum. The other thing I would like to see is hero's unit but instead of leveling them up by creeping or combat make it like a regular unit that needs to research upgrade/abilities so basically like a SC2 mothership or a single super ghost hero unit.

[@crtbalorda92]

Are you sure casting steps of war or blood bath games wouldn't result in the same type of "fun" as you experienced with this experiment?

[@alexandrel4569]

Hype for Stormgate died a while ago. Even if they do massive improvements most people won't give it another chance anyway.

[@codys6409]

So make it into wc3?

[@AhOhITzXray]

Problem with watch stormgate is that the pacing feels extremely slow at all phases of the game. I think the very least that can be done is to up the damage by mid game units, up the mobility of late game units and make smaller maps.

[@33shin33]

Why would you ever have creeps in a non hero game. See you guys in Age of Mythology!

[@nuclearicebreaker]

personally I ended up playing Beyond All Reason thanks to uthermal AOM I was super hyped for but ended up bouncing off hard

[@cdgncgn]

Did you play D2, LoD ? this preceded W3 release (D2 2000-2001 - LoD vs 2002 W3-2003 TFT) Hero was centerpiece, with inventory, like say D2, hero got attibutes, per level, multi-level abilities. Creeps work the same as you start a D2 game, you move out of Rogue Camp, and start gaining levels then you may buy or get gear from cleaning up an area. and besides that you manage base and build supporting units to your leveling up hero. Taking on lower lv than your own gives no exp, similar to D2. hero isnt as strong at the start, so units do more weight lifting. The essence is the same, building up in combat effectiveness, without necessarily doing any possibly finishing engagements. Any losses may stack up so now the shift goes into RTS style. Slow TTK helps heroes survive, however without a limited and exploitable game engine like in W3, old players who benefit from it, will not play the new, because it diminishes their advantage. I remember before W3 launched, I was really excited about how things will work and the game was completely such that it had nothnig to do with W2 or SC:BW.A game has some theme, castles, 2001 there was Stronghold Crusader with passable scalable walls. with all that, since W2 had walls, towers that were useful, I assumed we are getting that adds this sort of thing. Instead it went full on D2 to an extreme, where they are centerpieces up to 3. As if you played with 3 D2 heroes in a way. If heroes are to be, then make sure mechanics are indepth enough. Do think about, do you want heroes being like D2 teleported to your otherwise RTS and trnslated it into hero-centric skill, item centric play ? HOw strong are they to be ? I am not against heroes as such, creeps there for heroes to get the exp, level up. Heroes if they are to be like in W3, then may of the systems will be touched. ay WCIII was not o be built with any heroes, similar to WCII, BW. With low TTK. Im sleeping already.

[@RealPeoplePerson]

Fighting the same passive AI creeps every game gets tedious. I'd rather see a mechanic that requires player interaction, where players are incentivized to interact from game start and losing early interactions isn't too punishing. In MOBAs you respawn if you die. In soccer there's no dying at all. Give the Command Center the ability to apply a status effect on a few of your units. This effect makes the unit respawn at home when it dies. Additionally, any damage the unit inflicts generate a resource. This resource can then be spent to boost production speed, buff units etc. With this as a foundation, you can hopefully design rules, mechanics and units that make for a highly interactive early game.

[@Ryan41707]

For me, Zero-K is a great example of a good game with incredible mechanics and bad graphics.

[@bobjones7533]

Please review godsworn more

[@--Yuki]

His ideas are just making it Starcraft or Warcraft 3 because that's what they are. Units die fast in SC but a slower system+creeps+heroes is just WC3. I suppose a hybrid system is difficult.

[@Ziegfried82]

Stormgate is merely a mashup of War3 and SC2 so...yes?

[@marcinluter1195]

after over 100 hours in stormgate i would like to play at least 20 hours of good campagin. About maps and creep camps idk, its endgame content for me, and so far i didnt even get a "game". And i dont want the game to be designed for 10 best people in the world. so far it looks like its made for them. not for casuals.

[@hypers829]

Time to just scrap the whole idea and start from scratch

[@EMTgamer]

I really don't want to say this but it's missing the "thing". Command and Conquer had a thing - the flow, the art, the theme, the units, the interactions, the maps...none of those by themselves were remarkable but the chemistry of everything put together worked in a unique way that gave it it's identity. Starcraft, Warfcraft, Stellaris, Civ, each of these different games/brands has a thing that makes them unique and feels...right. I don't feel like this has a thing yet. When armies are fighting just feel like polygons bashing polygons...they feel fairly nameless...shapeless...just misc polygons arranged in a science fiction style. Feels like generic sci fi rts units on generic map with generic resources--- there is a certain life I just haven't seen breathed into it yet. On the spectrum of success we're leaning more towards the Concord of RTS side vs. the Savior or RTS.

[@EMTgamer]

Heroes COULD solve this - make them really unique, cool, flavorful, call in some community favorite voice actors - the heroes give the faction the identiy face lift so the rest of the generic units suddenly become fine..."These are the frontline for the hero, these are the ranged support, these flyers flank while the death ball fights over this camp" etc. I don't know I'm a moron.

[@kmurphy0620]

I would really like to see 30% or 40% of the unit's health removed or a damage buff equivalent to speed up damage on the units. Very often in this game I see a unit take 7 projectiles to the chest, and lose 1-2 bars of health. The real world can't be separated completely from the game's world and have a human takes 20 bullets to take down. This slowness in killing means things must be micro-able to keep the game fight entertaining, but the game doesn't have a ton of spell casters and hero units like WC3, but it has the speed of battle similar.

[@alexfriedman2152]

Not only are the maps too big, but they are too crazy for their own good. Why are there two separate entrances for most of the maps? There are like all these weird lanes to go down. They need to be simple and basic for now with maybe a few creep camps just for flavor but not like 8 creep camps for each player. There should be like 3 creep camps on each player's side. Idk what they are thinking with the creeps....

[@RandyWiafe]

Why aren’t creep camps territories you control and give you a passive (Econ, faster building speed, unit stats, and etc)

[@ApolloCondor]

Game handles more like WC3. They need grubby to check things out.

[@hungmarin]

I'm so lazy to watch the whole video so i just... look at the comments

[@Littledunc1]

If your friend wasn't attached to it, and if it was made by and pushed by randoms. you woulda gave up on this game before release.

[@svsv1191]

Brood war 2

[@Ayalaskin]

so, lots of efforts and time and though to make stormgate not stormgate inst better to just play sc2? this game is beyond salvation

[@Youtubingtroll]

Stormgate*

[@Divisor7]

Stormgate is fundamentally a lost cause Its ugly, uninspired and a managerial mess

[@HasekuraIsuna]

Kinda amazing how in BW you are incentivised to expand as workers are more effective spread out and how people take high grounds om the map to gain map control, but SC2 needs to _force_ you to expand due to lack of resources and SG needs to _force_ you to go out on the maps due to creeps. Seems like band-aid fixes

[@WoAzMM]

My hatred for SnoreGate is becoming borderline uncontrollable

[@shaneevans7641]

Imagine kissing your bro and his sister walks in

[@paradachshund]

I thought the small map was a big improvement. It felt like there was a lot more dynamic engagement happening compared to other maps I've seen. I've also got a starcraft bias, so creep camps aren't something that appeals to me that much. I would be willing to have a compromise with more of an area control mechanic of some kind, but even that I don't think should be up at all times. Make it something that presents an opportunity that causes more conflict to happen, not less.

[@lmenzol]

Game looks too fuckin cartoony. Both stormgate and zerospace look like if someone made an Overwatch RTS

[@lmenzol]

@@hungmarin gayest comment award 🏅

[@enriquegarciacota3914]

Eugh. Heroes.

[@nuclearicebreaker]

If I took over Stormgate it'd be called Beyond All Reason And it would have actual next gen features

[@aeonstar293]

BAR is a badass game. Spent more time on it the past 6 months than anything else except maybe AoM retold

[@nuclearicebreaker]

@@aeonstar293 I was so hyped for AOM retold but bounced off it super hard? So glad i found BAR

[@stardrifter2872]

First, give the human workers a real name( This is actually, really important. BOB is the worst name of any unit i've ever seen).Remove the Scout. Remove Grunts ability to turn into Zerglings. Give celestial's actual worker units. Tier One unit should not have powerful default abilities.add upgrades and custom hotkeys. I don't understand this obsession Why some people think the game should be faster and units should die faster. They already die plenty fast. If you want to play a fighting Game go play Street fight ect. This is A strategy game and winning and losing shouldn't rely not looking at your army for 0.0025 seconds like in SC2 or someone's ping. In starcraft 2 when a Maxed out Army dies in 5 seconds It defeats the purpose of fighting with large armies.

[@TheBigjimable]

some real waterbrains in that chat. any way you could disable that shit on youtube so i dont have to read some 30 year old spam chat with smegmasmegmasmegma?

[@IvanS-n5f]

HOW ABOUT if they made a BETTER game?

[@4everdex]

I think the big problem with this game is that it was build around the marketing sentence "We are the old blizzard making a new rts like the ones you love". Looking at what stormgate became these guys were clearly not the innovative guys in the team. The game has bascially no innovation at all. It does everything sc2 and wc3 do better in some way and doesn't stand out at all in any aspect. Its like they didnt really think of an overall concept of the game but just threw together things from the blizzard games and thought it would work, since everyone was wishing for a new blizzard RTS.

[@michaelsloanedog]

The game is ugly. People dont want to play an ugly game. units feel like bullet sponges too. Theres a reason why everyone is saying its ugly.

[@Winamp_]

i keep saying the same thing. They will waste their time and cash unless they change the unit design completely, they have to revamp everything or just deal with a huge loss. None will buy the game if it's this ugly and uninteresting. Starcraft 2 wasnt ugly at least during the beta, so why do this game have to be so far behind a 15 year old game.

[@ingestingcreation1024]

I agree with artosis. Watching and playing solo creep phases is the absolute worst. It's ungodly boring and massive turn off. Smaller maps and no creeps makes for much more interactive and interesting games. They need to change income stats to allow for a little more late game though.

[@FourOneNineOneFourOne]

As awful as Stormgate has been so far from viewer experience, those games with smaller maps were actually not that bad. I think it still suffers for visibility/readability aspect when two of the same races are fighting each other, it's hard to tell apart which units belongs to whom.

[@n00b1n8R]

Artosis seems incapable of imagining this game being anything besides SC3 or WC4

[@Ziegfried82]

Stormgate is nowhere near Warcraft 3 let alone calling itself Warcraft 4. And it's nowhere near Starcraft 1 or 2 either let alone calling itself SC3. It's a mashup of War3 and SC2 and it doesn't work.

[@xyYz12387]

please frost giant remove the creeps. This is not Warcraft 3. It is killing the game.

[@captainlogic4684]

StarCraft exhausted the genre, it said everything worth saying and then wouldn’t die. Zombie game. The only reason to make a sequel is if graphics were massively different and new mechanics were there. Neither are here. I wanted way more revolution in the genre, but guess not. 😢

[@unagiandroe]

Remember when they named a hero Warz? Stop wasting time on this trainwreck of a game they didn't care to put effort in themselves.

[@Codethe_Road]

creeps = booooring to watch

[@CamNielsen]

Stormgate is currently a duck, no focused vision, doesn't do anything great--mediocre to bad visuals, gameplay meh, game structure meh. Contrast with Battle Aces - clear vision, instant action, polarizing in a good way, not trying to be too similar to what's already out there.

[@pawelmurias]

Battles Aces feels very similiar to the starcraft maps where you just spawned units like defend the nexus and stuff.

[@toddgreener]

umm, I disagree with many of your assessments. You're basically just asking them to make SC2 again. That game still exists. Go play it. Creeps can be fun. If your small map had a single VISION camp in the middle of the map, you would have seen that being a huge thing that drove a lot of content. The resource, health, and vision camps are the ones that matter. Speed camps are basically trash, which is why you didn't see players interact with them at all. As for TTK, this is literally the appeal of Stormgate to me. WC3 is too long, SC is too fast. I LOVE Stormgate's fight pacing. This is the one part of the game I want to stay exactly the same. ETA: also no heroes for 1v1s is the right call. Heroes are fine for Coop, but in 1v1 I will never want them.

[@toddgreener]

That being said, if speed camps gave a smaller GLOBAL buff, that would be the shit. Then they'd be super useful.

[@speakertrees]

.

[@Svenburchard]

these videos are way too short.

[@kylemadison1296]

My hatred for Stormgate is becoming borderline uncontrollable.

[@ArilandoArilando]

lol

[@brendondevilliers1350]

Damn man. You need a hobby.

[@AscentArt]

Awful lot of theory crafting over a game that's gonna be dead within 4 months

[@DOMDZ90911]

The game has no aesthetic appeal. It looks like Starcraft 2 bootleg with lesser graphics. It was made for the sole purpose of being an esport and rake in money. Soulless.