If Everything is Determined How Can We Have Free Will?

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@Port3R_ 7 жыл бұрын

That question always plagued my mind... glad I found this video.. God will give u knowledge and understanding if you choose to seek him.. Thank you Jesus! God bless you Dr. Turek

@enemay 5 жыл бұрын

This is some asinine mental gymnastics. In a universe where the allpowerful, all present, all knowing Judeo Christian god exist, free will is incompatible. Answer me this, is god all knowing and all powerful? Is it possible to contradict, or do different from what god knows you’re going to do? “God knows the end from the beginning”. Uuh so before you even existed god already knew what’s going to happen throughout your entire life? Can someone do otherwise from gods knowledge? You didn’t even have consciousness he already knew all your actions, someone like Stephen Hawking would “choose” not to believe Christ and eventually die and be judge to hell and suffer for all eternity. Did Stephen Hawking or all the people that reject Christianity have will before they were born? Ooh yeah, you weren’t even born god knows everything, all choices you will make, he knows the end from the beginning of the Universe, yeah and you have free will, yeah makes total sense, very logical, sooooo clear. Slow clap.

@peteralleyman1388 5 жыл бұрын

@@enemay And did Pharaoh decide to harden his heart? Not according scripture....

@O_tropos 5 жыл бұрын

I agree with you, it doesn't make any sense what some Christians are saying. We don't have a free will, at least not as we think we have. This is still a difficult subject to comprehend. But I'll try to explain it. We don't have a free will, we're just conscious. God has planned everything. Just like how He used the pharaoh to show His wonders. Now you might think then why would God create people if they are destined for hell. The thing is the word hell never appears in the original scriptures and also alot of the times man changed the word aeon in to eternal. But aeon is just a long period of time of which we do not know the end of but it WILL END. So whenever Jesus spoke that people would be lost for "eternity" it meant for an aeon. How do I know? Because God is an almighty God and does not fail in His plans and His plans are to reach every single soul. Also the Bible says that EVERYONE will bow down and say Jesus is Lord. Phil2:10-12

@defendingthefaith.7889 5 жыл бұрын

enemay just because he foreknew. Does not mean we do not have freewill. It just means he already knows the outcome.

@Debonairactive 5 жыл бұрын

Sleezo Porter free will and all knowing can not coexist just as the world has proven that god can not be all good and all powerful

@sofie3912 4 жыл бұрын

I wonder, do the apologists ever fear not knowing the answers to the questions. They are very knowledgeable. It can't only be the human mind but the work of the Holy Spirit.

@daemonzap1481 3 жыл бұрын

If they don't know they will just say they don't know.

@jacobabelamusic6933 3 жыл бұрын

@@daemonzap1481 theres a reason they dont know like why God didnt save someone that they dont know, we dont know why but we know why we dont know why

@raymondtendau2749 3 жыл бұрын

They don't know what they don't know.

@ricksonora6656 3 жыл бұрын

You mean, apologists like Turek? People like him know enough to have confidence that answers exist. He’s probably looking for questions that he needs to research.

@sandwichman6788 3 жыл бұрын

Every wise man will admit what he does and does not know. If one does not have an answer to something he will not fear saying he does not have the answer to a particular question.

@rep10101 7 жыл бұрын

if we have no free will Jesus would never have waisted time rebuking people, but the fact is, Jesus did hold people accountable

@IBenZik 6 жыл бұрын

Amen!

@ginj5375 6 жыл бұрын

He was the teacher at that point, giving an example for scripture...just as now thru his spirit we will be chastened when we do wrong, if we are one of Gods children.

@chadofisher947 6 жыл бұрын

Right. Amen.

@holysex1052 6 жыл бұрын

If we had free will then God wouldn't know what we were going to do before we do it. Imagine you writing a script for a movie and wrote all the Choices that the characters will make. Most ppl are going to hell and God created those ppl while already Knowing that they were going to hell before they were conceived. So no matter what choices they made it was already known by God, that they would perish and burn for all eternity.

@TyrellWellickEcorp 6 жыл бұрын

shawn wonders on rod the most common misconceptions about hell is that when one gets there they burn for eternity. That’s not true

@dutch_asocialite 3 жыл бұрын

For me, it comes down to the fact that we down here don't know what's going to happen, so every choice we make and everything we do is as valuable like we had free will and that's good enough for me.

@a.39886 2 жыл бұрын

Interesting I guess. It's like if you had a dog in the back yard, and you love that dog more than anything. You're also all powerful and all knowing. There's also a bear trap there, that it will get caught in and suffer for days, and then die. Did you put that bear trap there, did you create bear traps, could you have not? Could you have made it disappear, or move it outside the fence? Could you not train the dog to avoid bear traps? Your options are endless, unless you're powerless or are absent love, or non-existent.,

@a.39886 2 жыл бұрын

@@Dizerner if you are given this facts what decision will you make You are 100% perfect need no one or anything you can`t get nothing for creation you don't need pray, love, companion, worship you are 100% perfect by yourself. But if you created you know with 100% certainty that if certain children will end up eternally suffering the torture of hell, and a different group of children will end up eternally on heaven. If you have that knowledge and the power to created them what is your decision a) Bring only the children that end up in heaven b) Bring both the children that end up in heaven and also hell c) Bring no children,.-

@a.39886 2 жыл бұрын

@@Dizerner "Now you can understand that God can indeed have sufficient moral reasons to allow children to be victimized and suffer" Odd that you automatically discard the most well sound answer to this predicament "God capital G" exist however he is not the christian god, the problem you face if you think only your worldview can account for everything you describe even when you see contradictions and problems, I know is hard to grasp the outsider test of faith, but just look your religion just as you look every other religion and you will notice the dissonance, don´t focus on the transcendental philosophical arguments for "God". If christianity you only need to focus in the resurrection 1) What data do we have? 2) What hypothesis best explains this data? 3) Do we have sufficient data to warrant belief in the hypothesis that best explains the data? And you will see how every other believer in a different religion or non believer see your religion and you are done. Of course you will still need hope, and meaning but you don´t need to get rid of "God" just the "christian god"

@a.39886 2 жыл бұрын

@@Dizerner so if it only comes by revelation. and "The Christian God" has revealed to you. then I just need to wait him to reveal to me, and I´ll be done. However as you know maybe he as already not chose before creating me and I damned to hell already in either case, if the christian god is true he has all the cards in his hand. Even so I would like to ask you. you seem very sure that the christian god has reveled to you, yet you see many believers in false religions that makes the same claims as you, and you mark them as believers in a fake god, how can you be sure that you aren´t one of the believers that think that their god has reveled but they have been deceived.

@bradleywelch9290 11 ай бұрын

@@a.39886 You're leaving out a crucial point, GOD has given us a way out. That is Jesus. Imagine you train the dog, warn the dog and used every means possible to prevent that dog from stepping on the bear trap and the dog still goes and step on it FREELY rejecting your efforts made with love. That's what we can observe today when people reject GOD's love. The more realistic thing to add to your analogy is that we didn't place the trap and we cannot move it assuming it's there due to the actions of another dog. The bear trap would be the suffering that came along with the sinful decisions us and other people made with our own free will. GOD can't intervene with that because it would be violating our free will. Therefore, we in the case of your analogy cannot move the bear trap. Now let's say this dog openly accepts that we love and care about it, do you think it would purposely not listen to our instructions or try it's absolute best to avoid that trap until it goes to a bigger, better eternal place of joy? That's another big thing you left out, at the end of all of that, earthly death isn't the final destination and GOD is Just. I'm going to sound very grim here and raw for a bit, but I broke my ankle once and one of the motives behind it was that I was trying to bring joy to my friends when the accident happened. The incredible pain I went through, I would gladly go through again knowing that through Christ I am saved and a great eternity awaits beyond this brief temporary life. One more thing. Truth is objective, all these religions and world views can't all be right. The resurrection of Christ is the pillar for Christianity. I implore you to look it up. Have a great and happy life of love and prosperity. Much love.

@Redimido42 5 жыл бұрын

Foreknowledge and determinism are two different things, foreknowledge does not necessitate causation

@MarkNOTW 5 жыл бұрын

Redimido42 Exactly

@unknownman1035 5 жыл бұрын

Thank u he basically testing us to see what we truly are

@simphiwe4930 5 жыл бұрын

It's not primarily about causation. It's about the fact that anything you do from birth can't be outside of what God knows if he exists. Whether he caused it or not, you're still bound by his knowledge which is pretty much fate.

@MarkNOTW 5 жыл бұрын

Shimiphew I find it fascinating how some people think about this. His knowledge of what will occur doesn’t mean He caused it to occur. Knowledge does not equal fate. How is it that we can grieve the Spirit? How is it that God was grieved that He made mankind?

@simphiwe4930 5 жыл бұрын

@@MarkNOTW I didn't say he caused anything. If I had foreknowledge of everything that would happen tomorrow nothing could happen that would contradict that foreknowledge, otherwise it wasn't foreknowledge and it would be flawed. Doesn't mean I caused that stuff to happen but it would still be restricted. If I *knew* I was going to die tomorrow, I couldn't not die tomorrow... If I didn't die it means I would be wrong and I *didn't know* .

@gregoryjackson852 7 жыл бұрын

I'm a beliver and I've asked myself this all the time, I don't think he explained it to well for me. It's still odd.

@anar3602 5 жыл бұрын

If God is love, holy and just. Why is this still a question? I find that many believers only believe the above to be true, rather than know this in the spirit to be true. Through conversations with many, too many are not expecting to encounter Him. It's in His revelatory tangible pressence that He rewards our seeking with "knowings". It's in His marvelous, glorious and awesome pressence that we realize that we cannot fathom Him. If the angels of Heaven are only saying, "holy, holy, holy" everytime they discover a new thing about Him, why should we expect a different reaction on our end.

@therealgospelofchrist6823 5 жыл бұрын

Gregory, the question posed is a bad question. It is illogical and completely false. Everything is not determined because God has given power to His creation. The creation with the power it is given can execute activity within the limitations of said power. Man does not have free will man has a will and our wills are influenced by many causal forces with the primary force being our carnal nature that drives us to choosing sin. If man had free will, then man could choose not to sin but if that were true, then we wouldn't need a savior. Man will always choose sin because man was made flesh and subject to lusts of the flesh. Romans 8:20 tells us that we were made subject to vanity (worthlessness) AGAINST our will. It is no wonder that Christians are so confused because the leaders of Christianity are clueless.

@jamesnieves145 5 жыл бұрын

@@therealgospelofchrist6823 Got a little closer with your reply thank you for it. Its still a mindbender though, something I have to really try and wrap my head around.

@maow9240 5 жыл бұрын

@@therealgospelofchrist6823 actually being made in Gods image we have the ability to not sin if we so choose but we are selfish creatures so we choose our own desires over what God desires.

@therealgospelofchrist6823 5 жыл бұрын

@@maow9240 By your statement alone, it would seem to suggest that selfishness is a characteristic of God's image.

@madhumanjunath0407 5 жыл бұрын

GOD:MY WAYS ARE NOT YOUR WAYS AND MY THOUGHTS ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS.

@MoonLanta 5 жыл бұрын

This. Thank you brother, God bless you!!

@0anniegrace 4 жыл бұрын

I'm here plagued by this question, then I saw your comment. Thank you, Lord. God bless you, brother!

@donluna2000 4 жыл бұрын

My ways are not your ways and my thoughts are not your thoughts. So STOP THINKING, shut up and just follow everything I say . . . Forget all that free will nonsense (No respect intended!)

@madhumanjunath0407 4 жыл бұрын

@@donluna2000 God bless you.

@donluna2000 4 жыл бұрын

@@madhumanjunath0407 indeed, god has blessed me so much. I guess free will and predestination are 2 questions only God can answer. god bless you too.

@FlamingChickenTA 3 жыл бұрын

This video popped up as I’ve been seeking understanding in this subject, thank you God

@IchigoIchigo3 7 жыл бұрын

Humans are such a confused species. If they have free will, it's not good enough because somebody else' explanation didn't "make sense" to them. On the other hand, let's say that they didn't have free will, and they would call God unjust. No matter what option they choose, people are naturally inclined to tear it down because destroying something (including themselves) has always been the easiest thing for man to do.

@friedfrog5447 7 жыл бұрын

you make no sense

@IchigoIchigo3 7 жыл бұрын

Gabrielle Kpanlin You think so. Cool man.

@Butteebean5775 7 жыл бұрын

...Shit....that hit deep.

@Gumpmachine1 6 жыл бұрын

Gabrielle Kpanlin I agree his comment is a poor representation of the positions regarding free will. One of his statements seems to contradict itself also.

@ginj5375 6 жыл бұрын

True, we are made in His image, but must also be conformed.by HIM. For whom He did foreknow He did predestine to be conformed. We must take our licking then start ticking, according to His will and not our own. Satan came to steal, kill and destroy, and he's been at it for a long time, and very smooth giving us what ever we desire in this world, where unless God opens the heart and mind of anyone, they are lost. This is why we need to study the living word. John 1:1 - 5 ((He was in the beginning and always will be, both Father Spirit and Son, and must dwell in us.))

@valentinenjeru4730 3 жыл бұрын

LOVED the football analogy, really eye-opening. Truly everything is for the ultimate good of the Kingdom, and if your rebellion is gonna further His Kingdom then yeapp, you'll be born and live (what you think is) your life but alas, you're doing His will through your free will. Only difference is you can't change what the players do, but God can, but the ending is the same.

@krii9 3 жыл бұрын

I try to explain this issue to my brother and he said that we are toys to God and useless because it's impossible to follow God's rules but yet he brought us without our permission.

@lets_wrapitup 2 жыл бұрын

@@krii9 it is possible to follow God’s rules, we just choose not to. And since it’s hard, out of God’s mercy he made Jesus the atonement for our sins. And for God to ask us permission to be brought to earth/exist we have to first exist

@JW-rn5ee 2 жыл бұрын

Nope. FREE WILL is a lie. FREEDOM OF CHOICE is the truth of what the human family has been given.

@Wisdomlies Жыл бұрын

@@krii9Following God is a relationship with God. The rules you refer to often people means Old Testament, the 600 laws. The new “laws” are God’s objective standard of living, that is inherently good, like forgiving your enemies and loving each other authentically. That is God’s kingdom he will set up on Earth.

@davidross5593 Жыл бұрын

@@krii9i would ask your brother what does he mean by that and how did he come to that conclusion? I would ask your brother, how does he know we are useless? Moreover, why would we have to give God "permission" to "buy us" ? That is a moot weak point. God bought us because he knew by saving us, it would benefit us. It has nothing to do with permission. Our "permission" is irrelevant. It is us that chooses to accept his gift or reject his gift.

@sethaj04 3 жыл бұрын

The fact that he is outside of time is such an interesting but obvious perspective I had never thought about

@merikijiya13 3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like an implausible perspective that when thought about leads to contradictions.

@3ggshe11s 10 ай бұрын

It's also irrelevant.

@sylent7812 8 ай бұрын

@@merikijiya13you said a whole lot of nothing without any reason

@merikijiya13 8 ай бұрын

@@sylent7812 reading comprehension not your thing?

@Matt-tc1ml 5 жыл бұрын

He’s the Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. He knows what choices you’ll make in your life but allows you to make them all. Good, bad or indifferent. He wants us to choose Him, but allows us to stray. He loves us so much to let us choose.

@Lucas-ys8nb 5 жыл бұрын

He loves us so much yet allow us to chose evil and condemn us for it?

@Lucas-ys8nb 5 жыл бұрын

And just in case you tell me even though I chose evil, I can still believe in Christ and be saved from condemnation because he loved me then why would he allow me to choose not to choose him?

@josephsack4918 4 жыл бұрын

@@Lucas-ys8nb because he's not going to have forced love. Then it's not real love. And for there to be bad, there has to be good.

@jonathanhauhnar8434 3 жыл бұрын

The question is; How does he know the future?

@jonathanhauhnar8434 3 жыл бұрын

Does God looked into time and learn something or he predestined it to happened.

@kylebeggs3845 6 жыл бұрын

No, the players do NOT have free will. This is because of the outcome already being determined. If the score finishes 24-23 in favor of the blue team, it doesn’t matter what plays the other team runs or what scenario’s you put the red team in, they do not have the choice to score 24 or more points. Being able to run whatever plays they decide is not free choice because they cannot change the outcome of the game. So in the end no one on the field has any choice. It is the same with this god. If I’m damned to hell from the get go, and these events are playing out as if recorded on TV, then I do not have the choice to not be damned. Somewhere along the line I have to do something to caused me to be damned. That is not free will.

@zacharylowe24 5 жыл бұрын

Kyle Beggs thank you lol this guy was talking about T.V and a football game! What a dick

@marija.vujkov 4 ай бұрын

Exactly, thanks for having a working brain

@BushiBushi-sx7xy 4 ай бұрын

@@marija.vujkov literally what i thought

@BrettOPediaTV 5 жыл бұрын

A great way to describe free will, time and God’s perspective is with a video game analogy. For example, say Mass Effect, an open world RPG action game. You have tons of choices and can do almost anything, but there are certain key plot points/cinematics that happen along the way, and you can make good guy, neutral or bad guy choices at these moments. The end result is that things still conclude how the story needed to unfold, and your choices (good, neutral, bad) all lead to these key moments. You have free will, but they all line up with God’s plan, or rather, your choices are used to supplement the plan. Your reputation or, soul, is between yourself and the story, plan, or God in this metaphor. I also view God’s perspective like how we have a video game disc (moreso 10 years ago). God is outside of time, much like how we are outside the disc. Everything that did, will or can happen is contained on the disc, and the story is woven based on choices through time and already have scripts with chain events that lead to results. We know the story and can see it played out (especially if you’re a PC guy and can look at the files on the disc). It’s all at once inside time and outside of time. What matters is our individual choices and our relationship with God, i.e., the developer/creator.

@therealgospelofchrist6823 5 жыл бұрын

There is NO such thing as free will. Free will is a human illusion created by man to stop God from being God so that man can become god. Choices are subject to boundaries, limits, rules, and laws and while many of those boundaries, limits, rules, and laws can be broken, they are not without consequence. In your video game analogy, you failed to mention that the video game designer programs the game to be played a certain way. It cannot be played in way that is outside of the way that it was programmed to be played (boundaries and limits). You certainly can exercise some independence of your own will within those boundaries and limits but it is not free. Let me provide an example... I have a 5 year old daughter and she lives in my house. She has things that I have given her... a bed, toys, etc. She also has access to the television, a trampoline, food, water, etc. Within the boundaries and limits that I've set, she can exercise some independence of her own will by going to her room to play with her toys or getting in her bed to take a nap. However, if I take her toys away or remove the TV from her room, she no longer has access to them to exercise anything. Does my 5 year daughter have free will? No, she doesn't... her will is subject to the boundaries, limits, and rules that I establish for her. Can she break some of them, sure she can but she will be subject to my consequences. There is no logical rational person that would support or advocate for a 5 year old being able to exercise any freedom in obeying my commands. Children are expected to obey their parents so the idea of free will is not even noble one. Free will is nothing but complete lawlessness... Bottom line is that you and I have a WILL but it is not free... We exercise our wills in a system that is inundated with boundaries, limits, rules, and laws in which we must learn to practice good judgment or suffer the consequences.

@jeremyhart557 5 жыл бұрын

I agree yall kinda said the same thing the original was an analogy I like using comic books but its essentially the same as the video game exaple the most nd god is like stan lee alotta ways for the story to change but it all leads to superman saving the day fully determined the guy who commented went into the details of superman can fo kiss Lowis but if he gotta fight brainiac next pannel it dont matter what else was happening before he was always gonna have to fight at whatever determined moment that was

@jeremyhart557 5 жыл бұрын

@@therealgospelofchrist6823 best free will definition I've ever heard

@therealgospelofchrist6823 5 жыл бұрын

@@jeremyhart557 👌

@garmarrod 5 жыл бұрын

The Real Gospel of Christ perfectly stated. Well done

@Iampossible376 4 жыл бұрын

Guys it's doesn't matter if you couldn't understand God fully. All you need to do is to put your trust in him.. He has great things in store for you.. All your doubts will be cleared in heaven.. God bless

@stankomalceski9677 3 жыл бұрын

Melvin your correct it doesn’t matter if we can’t fully understand God but it’s great fun and the most interesting and worthy topic for me to spend my time on.God bless you.

@hkmma6543 3 жыл бұрын

So basically what you mean is even it doesn’t add up or make sense logically you should believe it anyway

@stankomalceski9677 3 жыл бұрын

@@hkmma6543 no I don’t have blind faith that’s why I’m a Christian and not a Muslim or Jewish (Judaism) cos they follow the god of the first testament

@Iampossible376 3 жыл бұрын

@@hkmma6543 makes better sense than believing everything came from simply nothing

@hkmma6543 3 жыл бұрын

@@Iampossible376yet you think god came from nothing? There was always energy and matter in space and there were other galaxies before earth was ever formed.

@yepisaidit100x 4 жыл бұрын

Finally after years of searching and self doubt the question was answered- thank you sir so much!

@5ivepoints18 4 жыл бұрын

IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE TRULY FREE WILL & CHOSE CHRIST JESUS ON YOUR OWN....EXPLAIN THIS PLZ! John 1:11-13 "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." You see Jesus came to the Jews & they did not receive Him. But those who did receive Him became children of God. Now how were these people "born as children of God"? It was not by blood, like how Jewish people are born Jews, nor of their own fleshly WILL nor the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD. Allow me to paraphrase Ephesians 2:1-10: We were DEAD in our trespasses and sin, able to do nothing just like dead people can do nothing to help themselves. BUT GOD loved us so much that even while in this state of deadness HE MADE US ALIVE together with Christ in order that He might show His surpassing grace. God graciously SAVED YOU not as a result of your works, so you have nothing to boast about. Your faith did not originate in yourselves, it was a GIFT OF GOD! For we are His workmanship, created for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them, not even our good works are ours! 1Corinthians 15:10 "But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me." You see it wasn't his own vain laboring that got him to where he was, it was God's grace carrying him along to where God wanted him to go. If this is a question you struggle with please seek out John Piper's books on this topic. Our wills are trapped, enslaved & dead in sin & trespasses, unable freely choose God. Choosing God would be pleasing to God & the bible says we are unable to please God in our flesh. But God, for HIS NAME'S SAKE, to fulfill HIS PROMISES to Abraham & the new covenant, chooses a remnant to redeem & they were given to Christ by God (John 6:39 & John 10:29)

@yepisaidit100x 4 жыл бұрын

@@5ivepoints18 LOL- already but not yet!

@satheshkumar4035 4 жыл бұрын

Once i was in my prayers, i asked god similar question, i got an answer something to say “ all things happen as per Gods will, but your wish will be added to that Will, nthg happens as per peoples wish” I feel this man keeps beatng round d bush.

@leroyjennings5842 3 жыл бұрын

This one will always be hard to grasp because we have finite minds. Free will and predestination has always been a crutch in the church because people will literally leave a church or be divided by it and the funny thing is this happens even when those that cause the problems aren't even all that smart about it

@a.39886 2 жыл бұрын

@saurabhjohnson 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Dr. Frank Sir. I have learned a lot from your stuff. Praise God for you. Love from India.

@Hydroverse Жыл бұрын

There's a difference between foreknowledge and knowledge. You can foresee the outcome of a magic trick you've seen before, but it doesn't mean you understand said trick. Determinism is more about the implications of knowledge's existence irrespective of one's possession of that knowledge. No one is arguing that you possessing that knowledge means you somehow have inserted yourself into that rigid cause-and-effect explanation. It just means you can understand what you may have already foreseen coming by having already witnessed it beforehand.

@jennifercaguana174 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for answering my questions. God Bless. :)

@5ivepoints18 4 жыл бұрын

@tonetom1287 4 жыл бұрын

@@dan4992 He literally answered the question. Those who have ears will hear. Just be humble and listen. He clearly answered the question.

@turiguliano416 3 жыл бұрын

@@tonetom1287 Jesus said he doesn't know when the Hour will come. Only GOD Knows. (Mark 13:32)

@a-k9161 3 жыл бұрын

And you think that's the right answer.?!

@zanykangaroo 2 ай бұрын

@@5ivepoints18 Thank you, brother! _Soli Deo Gloria_ !

@markoj.7675 4 жыл бұрын

"We have free will" Calvinists:*heavy breathing*😳😳😳😨😨😨

@gracehopper2409 4 жыл бұрын

This is hilarious

@chimateaching8552 4 жыл бұрын

Thats because Calvinism is in error and totally inconsistent with their world wide view

@alexgalindo2888 4 жыл бұрын

Haha

@lordheklsmosh9490 4 жыл бұрын

Read Roman's 8

@t4r478 4 жыл бұрын

Romans 9

@henrybasic7386 5 жыл бұрын

If everything is determined than our free choice is also determined, our freedom of choice is also determined.

@dlon8899 4 жыл бұрын

I'm a mechanic, and I warned you the brakes in your car need fixing. You chose to ignore me, and drive crash and burn. But I love you

@jojosim5087 2 ай бұрын

more like no one wanted to drive the car but you forced me with gun tothe head and did not wanr me brakes are not good and after crash you say "oohhh i will punish you even more because u crashed the car

@GSpotter63 5 жыл бұрын

I find that a lot of people on both sides of the debate conflate pre-knowledge with determinism. God knowing what you will chose to do in the future is not the same as him making you do it.

@bishopchalik8561 5 жыл бұрын

Sure if he leave out the part that he himself created us knowing what we will do. That is the main part of the problem. I may know that if a person will die if they fall off a building. If I know with upmost certainty that person will be pushed off a building when I created him then I simply created a person that will die regardless of free will. That is the problem.

@Thanos-kp5jr 5 жыл бұрын

God is responsible for the fact of freedom, humans are responsible for the acts of freedom

@farmercraig6080 5 жыл бұрын

Great quote.

@frankmoser6251 5 жыл бұрын

Well too bad we're NOT FREE lol

@kimbanton4398 4 жыл бұрын

I would use the term _free will_ instead of _freedom_

@Thanos-kp5jr 4 жыл бұрын

@Tonya Leibach that is just an assertion, what evidence do you have for that?

@Thanos-kp5jr 4 жыл бұрын

@Tonya Leibach how does that passage proof that we don't have free will? Jesus knew that Peter will deny him 3 times. How does knowing something causing something to happen. Simple answer it does not. Having knowledge about something can't in no way cause any kind of effect. Again please provide evidence for your assertion.

@fubaramoris8196 5 жыл бұрын

If judas Iscariot was acting on free will when he betrayed & sold jesus, he somehow played a crucial role in our salvation. If he was predestined by God to betray jesus, he clearly didn't have free will. In both cases, he's partly responsible for our salvation & that exonerates him of any blame, but believers still blame & criticize him till this very day. The free will excuse just doesn't stand.

@Neodreth Жыл бұрын

The fact that God knows all of our decisions and choices we will make through out our life and where they will eventually lead us, it doesn't mean that are predetermined. They are all still by our free will and not programmed by God, it's like he has already seen the ending of our movie but we are the ones who have written the scenario.

@willywonka6948 4 жыл бұрын

Freewill: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. If you watch a clip of a football game, it is always going to end the same. This is a constraint.

@UnstoppableFloridaMan 11 ай бұрын

When we play the game, there isn’t constraint. God has the game clip sure, but we are the ones playing the game. Hope I made you reminiscence this comment you made three years ago lol.

@RosannaMiller 6 жыл бұрын

How come no one has asked Turek about whether he believes God is always in control? And how free will works with in it?

@ricksonora6656 3 жыл бұрын

How do you know they haven’t? Aside from that presumption, “in control” can mean setting boundaries and directing a minimum selection of necessary actions, or it can mean micromanaging. Which do you think is true, and why?

@marcellofunhouse1234 3 жыл бұрын

God is in control not mankind

@colinmccarthy7921 5 жыл бұрын

Everything is Determined and we do have Free Will.Our Lord Jesus is Almighty and Powerful.God always was,is,and always will be.This is the Concept of God.Have Faith,Hope,Love and Trust in Our Lord Jesus.

@randyflowers5141 5 жыл бұрын

That's exactly right , everyone wants to put themselves and God on the same level , their eyes are closed , all we can do is pray for them brother.

@NEPtune-fy1ug 5 жыл бұрын

do you not realise how that is completely illogical?

@colinmccarthy7921 5 жыл бұрын

It is not illogical.What is illogical is the Logicality of illogicality.

@NEPtune-fy1ug 5 жыл бұрын

@@colinmccarthy7921 yes you have absolutely no idea what you are saying ok

@enemay 5 жыл бұрын

"Everything is Determined and we do have free will." How in the world does one have free will if everything you will do is already determined before you are even born/conscious!? This is some asinine mental gymnastics. In a universe where the all powerful, all present, all knowing Judeo Christian god exist, free will is incompatible. Answer me this, is god all knowing and all powerful? Is it possible to contradict, or do different from what god knows you’re going to do? “God knows the end from the beginning”. Uuh so before you even existed god already knew what’s going to happen throughout your entire life? Can someone do otherwise from gods knowledge? You didn’t even have consciousness he already knew all your actions, someone like Stephen Hawking would “choose” not to believe Christ and eventually die and be judge to hell and suffer for all eternity. Did Stephen Hawking or all the people that reject Christianity have will before they were born? Ooh yeah, you weren’t even born god knows everything, all choices you will make, he knows the end from the beginning of the Universe, yeah and you have free will, yeah makes total sense sooooo clear. Slow clap.

@peterramsey8058 3 жыл бұрын

Here are the things that are determined at birth, and beyond your control. That you were born, your sex, your parents, your DNA, your looks, your intelligence, your physique, your culture, your country, your religion. Some people are born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Others in the depths of poverty, and abuse. Some people have it hard and others not. We do not have a level playing field. Thanks God. Give us freewill, but not an even start.

@armedprophet3321 4 жыл бұрын

Isn’t it so awesome that we serve such a wise and incredible God. These questions that may baffle us is just common knowledge to God, like us tying our shoes.

@epicmonkey6663 3 жыл бұрын

There's nothing wise about the God you follow he's all knowing he creates the devil he knows he's going to manipulate humans and then sends the humans to Hell anyway he creates rapist serial killers and murderers who he knows full well those people are going to traumatise victims and if the victims can't forgive the abuses they go to hell they join the abusers in hell although if the abuses are able to truly repent they go to heaven so the victim still ends up in hell if they can't forgive nothing is wise about that all god is doing is enabling everyone suffering and everyone thanks him for it everyone sing songs in his name while people are being tortured and murdered he is not wise he is a cruel demanding and is all knowing so if he deliberately put a child in a situation where they get raped why should he expect that child to forgive the abuser and if that kid doesn't doesn't have the emotional strength even though for some reason Christians think it's a choice to forgive if that kid didn't have the emotional strength he Burns forever in a fire guess what though I'm that kid that gets to burn forever and a fire because I can't forgive the person who god knowingly created with full knowledge of what was going to happen and he wants me to praise him how do I praise and thank a god that enabled my suffering why should I thank him for that I'm a miserable mess that sick of existing I never asked for any of this and now I have to spend forever micro managing my thoughts and feeling so I don't end up in a furnace forever god definitely isn't wise is a control freak everything has to be his way 100-percent and if you don't agree with that you get sent to hell

@armedprophet3321 3 жыл бұрын

@@epicmonkey6663 So in your FINITE brain you think you can know what and why God allows and disallows ? I am so sorry that very bad things happened to you, and bad things happen to people all the time, BUT that does not nor ever will make it OK to question the God that created you and knew your name before he set the limits of the universe. This world belongs to satan and we are just passing thru it, but please, please, please, God knows your pain and anguish and wants to heal you and make you whole again. I promise if you just go somewhere private and humble yourself before Him and ask him to reveal himself to you He will. He will do in such a way that it will be the most private and personal thing you have ever experienced. God sacrificed His son so that we may be saved, he knows the evil that is here and what it does, he wants you to call on him. God is NOT this thing that just sits back and laughs at us, he feels for you and wants so desperately to be a part of your life. He loves you so much that he does not force anyone to worship him. Maybe bad things happened to you so that you would one day write this to me and I would be responding back to you. Who knows. Please hit me up if you would like to talk further. I love you brother.

@epicmonkey6663 3 жыл бұрын

@@armedprophet3321 he doesn't Force anyone to worship him but the consequences is eternal burning in a fire it's the default punishment for everything that god doesn't like it's either comply or burn in a fire forever there's no choice in the matter I don't even 100-percent know if this being even exist it drives me insane should I just pretend and imagining this being existing just so in case they are real don't burn forever Christians always talk of a relationship but is it just one-sided where you talk and get nothing back that's all I ever get from God in truth I don't even know what being humble means to be fair but if it's to be calm rational and thinking clearly that's practically impossible for me I have ADHD which comes with hyperactivity racing thoughts of lack of ability to concentrate consistently I have borderline personality disorder which makes me feel like a walking inconsistency I have autism as well all these things making me struggle consistently in day to day life on top of my emotional pain all I ever get is silence from this god no answers no nothing I'm just left confused in the dark should I just take this as a sign to live my life until he announces his presence to me because I am fed up I was fed up yesterday and I was adamant that I was done and now today I'm back at it again trying to confirm or deny his existence by always either leads me to Nowhere or people repeating bible verses I already know and if the world belongs to say and why is he going to lock him away for 1000 years and then 3 him again at a later date to cause more suffering? And also why did God Harden pharaohs heart sure the Pharaoh was technically doing that himself as well but God is essentially pushing him towards destruction at that point when he could probably also soften his heart as well and what is God's definition of protection because nobody seems protected by anything in this world

@armedprophet3321 3 жыл бұрын

@@epicmonkey6663 Humbling simply means to recognize that he is God and is your creator, from what you are saying it seems like you are trying to hard to believe. I don’t really call prayer praying, what I mean by that is I have have conversations with God. I tell him how much I love him, I praise him and thank him for everything ( good and bad ) we don’t know the outcome of our really anything and only he does so what may seem bad is really good in the long run. I tell him how my day is going and always ask him to continue to reveal himself to me (and He does). I cast all my worries and concerns on him and let him deal with it. Finally I thank him that he sent his Son to suffer, die and then be raised 3 days later for me. I also thank him for his mercy, grace and love. My number one request is to always serve him and spread his word and love. In fact I was praying today while driving to take care of something and asked him to allow me to continue to serve him...........then you left this message. If you honestly seek God and reach out to him He will always answer. ALWAYS.

@epicmonkey6663 3 жыл бұрын

@@armedprophet3321 I'm one of those people that wouldn't necessarily say they believe that he exists but I'm paranoid of his existence and Christians constantly say to seek him out and you will find and admittedly there are things that are a little suspicious that further extend my paranoia of this beings existence like the people that freak out in baptism videos I will try and get one myself to see if I could experience whatever it is they're going through but in this Corona world that's impossible another reason I would be damned to hell along with not being able to forgive and is praising and thanking god requirement? Because at the moment I honestly genuinely couldn't do that and I know God doesn't like liars so I wouldn't want to lie the only thing I could genuinely be thankful for is for the actual sacrifice itself if I was absolutely sure of his existence but I couldn't say thank you in every single comment section a lot of Christians do another thing as well I know that god doesn't like fits of anger so I'd be asking for forgiveness for that at least five times a day I genuinely just cannot manage

@VladShamaida 4 жыл бұрын

Here’s my random questions about free will: - Can you think of any decision that you’ve made that was not based on your previous experience and knowledge you have? - Let’s assume all decisions are made based on your previous experience and knowledge. What constitutes free will in this case? - Let’s assume that there are some decisions that are not based on your previous experience and knowledge. Does it mean that such decisions does not have a cause? If no, what causes them? - Should there always be some input for any change of mind? If yes, what constitutes free will in this case?

@davelanger 4 жыл бұрын

To piggy back on that here is another way to look at it. Look at any choice we have ever made. Lets say we could go back in time right before we make that choice and not know we made that choice before. Would we always make the same choice not knowing that we made it before? If the answer is yes we don't have free will.

@benhof2140 2 жыл бұрын

@@davelanger Are we assuming that we take all our experience (we gained after the moment) with us to that moment? That will likely change the choice. Our personalities change over time, based on what we experience and how perceive or learn from those experiences.

@davelanger 2 жыл бұрын

@@benhof2140 So that is determinism. Thanks for proving my point.

@benhof2140 2 жыл бұрын

@@davelanger That's assuming that not only our experiences are determined but also our personal perceptions of them.

@davelanger 2 жыл бұрын

@@benhof2140 still determism

@yuliuswijayanto843 5 жыл бұрын

Love to see this video, thank you so much Frank. Jesus bless you.

@billybob-ro6qf 9 ай бұрын

Another good analogy with the football. IF you know ahead of time your team has already lost & will forever lose, will you still want to watch them or join them? I'd think most if not everyone would say NO. So why then do so many say they want to join satan & want to end up in hell KNOWING satan has already lost & is hell bound? WHY NOT INSTEAD JOIN THE TEAM THAT HAS WON EVERY BATTLE & CAN NOT LOSE?! JOIN THE KINGDOM OF GOD, PRAISE JESUS!!!

@rosscarlson3701 3 жыл бұрын

I can't believe anyone actually accepts this absurd answer.

@aidanmays7825 3 жыл бұрын

It's quite simple. In the same way that one event naturally flows from another, the things that we do naturally flow from our will. Viewing time outside of It's flow or knowing everything that will happen, those things we choose to do are fully known by God. Yes, we choose what we do and how we respond from moment to moment, but because we are who we are we wouldn't have made any other choice or done any other thing. Consider what it means to make a choice. There are surrounding events and circumstances; there are your rationality and impulse; and there are your conclusions and actions. This is not complete but it's functional for this purpose. Whatever decision is made is made by your free will, and yet the factors involved in that decision were predetermined and, because the nature of your free will is known by God, the outcome is determinable. This is hard to grasp for a lot of reasons, but it's important to recognize that nothing in our system of analyzing and understand our universe is fully deterministic and we experience time as part of it's flow. It's like trying to visualize a 4th dimension. We just aren't built to understand it beyond abstract conceptualization

@rosscarlson3701 3 жыл бұрын

@@aidanmays7825 You said: "In the same way that one event naturally flows from another, the things that we do naturally flow from our will." and: "because we are who we are we wouldn't have made any other choice or done any other thing" and: "Whatever decision is made is made by your free will, and yet the factors involved in that decision were predetermined". You're describing simple determinism, yet you think there's free will in there somewhere. Perhaps you have a different definition of free will than I do. How would you define "free will"?

@aidanmays7825 3 жыл бұрын

@@rosscarlson3701 Determinism and free will are not mutually exclusive. You are conscious, you experience, and you enact your will in everything that you do or do not do. When you look back on what you did yesterday it is fixed, and tomorrow when you look back on the things you will do today they too will be fixed. This does not negate that you freely chose to do those things. The scope of human understanding is quite limited here so at the end of the day these realizations are not that useful

@rosscarlson3701 3 жыл бұрын

@@aidanmays7825 They are mutually exclusive, at least per the common definition(s) that I've encountered. So I ask again, how do you define free will?

@aidanmays7825 3 жыл бұрын

@@rosscarlson3701 You're only viewing this through the narrow definitions of incompatibilism. There's a famous quote from Schopenhauer that puts it quite well: "Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills." None of this is as black and white as you think it is, mainly because we barely even have a surface level understanding behind the mechanics of critical elements of this discussion; namely, time and consciousness.

@icanspeak851 2 жыл бұрын

With the NFL analogy, Turek assumes there's a gap in God's knowledge. The gap occurs when the persona didn't know the outcome in real time (when it was being recorded) until it had already occurred (watching the replay). Is Turek suggesting that there's a mechanism greater than God that controls omniscience that subsequently feeds him information?

@McCauky 2 жыл бұрын

I like this interpretation. I think, if God really exists, then he does not know the future.

@Salvation1984 5 жыл бұрын

That absolutely blew my mind!! Perfectly describes what all knowing mean! WOW!!

@catchymusic2064 4 жыл бұрын

exactly

@adarwinterdror7245 4 жыл бұрын

Its a horrible analogy. The players in the taped game dont make a choice when you watch the reply. They only made choices in the past.that analogy would only make sense if you could watch the recorded game BEFORE the game took place. And P.S. - the players never had free will regardless of the analogy. If a player is playing than he is playing to win. He has no will in the matter. And if he plays to win, than if the ball is flying his way, he cant chose not to try and catch it. And if he caught the ball, he can not chose not to run toward the endzone or whatever tactic he deems beat at the moment.

@sharonr2121 4 жыл бұрын

@@adarwinterdror7245, hallo. Do you willingly believe in God?

@adarwinterdror7245 4 жыл бұрын

@@sharonr2121 will has nothing to do with what we believe. We dont chose what to believe. Either we are convinced by the details and arguments we heard, or we're not.

@sharonr2121 4 жыл бұрын

Adar Winter Dror, do you not?

@Samgon95 4 жыл бұрын

Many fame speaker make the answer more complicate than the question. They explained bla bla bla quoting many verse in the Bible then the questioners become more confused. I never got satisfy answer how great the speaker is about this question. But your answer make sense. You simplified the answer in easy way and make us to digest. Thank-you sir.

@thatdamnike 7 жыл бұрын

If God already knows the outcome of every event, then of what use is praying to God for anything?

@inertiaforce7846 5 жыл бұрын

Damn straight. Atheism > god.

@antoniowolf4377 4 жыл бұрын

Well because, while He knows whether you will pray to Him or not, He will not do anything until you pray to Him and show your faith. For instance, let's say your mother has cancer and you want to pray to God to save her from cancer. God will only save her if you take the action to pray for her. Thus, he waits until you have prayed for her to be saved to actually save her. So while he knows He will save her, He will only save her because you prayed to him, thus he will wait for you to pray to Him.

@itsthequenchiest5072 3 жыл бұрын

@@antoniowolf4377 Yeeeahhh, I'm fairly certain God hasn't saved anybody with cancer (and we all know 90% of all cancer patients have someone on their side praying for them), but that could just be me saying stuff.

@jonr9467 3 жыл бұрын

Makes him feel good about it.

@billybob-ro6qf 9 ай бұрын

@@inertiaforce7846 NOTHING IS GREATER THAN GOD ALMIGHTY!!!!!!!!!

@kev1734 8 жыл бұрын

This is the one simple question I wanted an answer to. Thank you. I want to pick up that book. Frank if you read this comment can you let me know so I can ask 1 more question, I'm very close to finally believing and feeling it in my heart.

@MrJbinchrist 8 жыл бұрын

This is great! I am praying for you. I was blessed to never struggle with these questions when I was not a believer ..... I simply didn't care about GOD or Christianity or anything else for that fact haha ...... There will always be deep questions for our finite minds but I have learned since being born again that the LORD will open us up to an understanding that a nonbeliever, like I once was, will never know. GOD bless and keep on seeking CHRIST while HE may be found.

@ricksonora6656 3 жыл бұрын

Faith is trusting the best explanation of the evidence when you don’t have proof sitting there staring you in the face. It’s ok to make a decision without having every last question answered. But I wonder what your final question is. I hope you’ve gotten an answer.

@JamesW225 3 жыл бұрын

I would encourage you to read a small book called...how good is good enough byandy stanley. It clarified many things for me in my struggle of understanding. About a 1 and a half hour red.

@ajlancaster7316 2 жыл бұрын

@@JamesW225 please research Andy Stanley before you recommend anyone to him.

@davidross5593 Жыл бұрын

@@ajlancaster7316 Can you give me an overview why on your advice? I work a lot. I don't have any time to do research, let alone barely any personal time for things i need to do

@jso19801980 3 жыл бұрын

like a houseparty with the sign "All welcome" but when you go inside theres another sign which says "invited only"

@dr.stiffsock3662 2 жыл бұрын

The Christian Judea God is supposed to know everything before it ever happened. It's already predetermined, it's like writing a script for the movie and saying the characters (not the actors) have free will. They don't because your destiny is already determined before you even exist.

@watchingandwaiting777 3 жыл бұрын

This debunks Calvinist, thank you Frank!!

@The3Stooges 3 жыл бұрын

Calvinists are prideful arrogant boastful people who fail hard at pretending to be humble.

@ricksonora6656 3 жыл бұрын

@@The3Stooges Isn’t it prideful to lump people together and judge them like that?

@red_hdx6848 2 жыл бұрын

Frank is the only person to me who can answer questions with such a great answer. The Holy Spirit is working through you Frank, God bless you.

@a.39886 2 жыл бұрын

@ImFreezerBurnCompared2Cool 3 жыл бұрын

This guy has an uncanny knack for answering questions without answering them

@kevindavisjunior 2 жыл бұрын

He was even more stumped when asked the guy who posed the question “does that make sense” and he answered “yea.. kinda” lol

@jamesbrice6619 2 жыл бұрын

@@kevindavisjunior it makes perfect sense. But i don't agree with it.

@adamsanchez222 Жыл бұрын

The LORD works out everything to its proper end- even the wicked for a day of disaster. -Proverbs 16: 4

@jeanwanchen1 4 жыл бұрын

Wait can somebody help me out? I really liked the analogy Frank gave, but I don't see how that can explain this question about God. Sure we can watch the game knowing the results, and the players would still have free will playing the game. But we did not determine the moves made by the players. God not only knows the results, himself *determined* each and every move of the players. So it indeed seems like the players would be the puppets of God. So how do the players still truly have their own choice, if their choice was pre-determined by God? Any help is appreciated.

@sherlockhomeless7138 3 жыл бұрын

I have no idea. I think Frank just wanted to get as close as possible to the correct answers. But ultimately nobody knows how free will and God's sovereignty really cooperate.

@kampeavy 3 жыл бұрын

The Bible does give us indications that there is both free will and some predetermined plan that God has in place. I tend to lean more toward the free will side, but I can’t rule out all ideas of predetermination. My dad is a pastor, and the way that I have heard him explain it is that there are two ditches in the road. If you stray too far on either side, then you end up in the ditch. Instead, we need to find balance between the two and allow for the possibility of both. I think that a Frank Turek’s point in the video was to say that just because God knows something will happen, that does not necessarily mean that God predetermined it to happen. Knowledge of an action does not take away the free will of that action. I hope that this could help some. God bless.

@monitor-mindtheover-void6712 3 жыл бұрын

Dude disproved himself within a matter of two lines, lol.

@robodaviking2209 4 жыл бұрын

I don’t think that is correct. That isn’t free will. I personally believe that we do have free will and there is endless possibilities and choices that we make. It is just that God knows all of the choices and they all still lead to revelations because his plan is just so great

@robodaviking2209 4 жыл бұрын

@temporarysanity Again, his plan is so great that all possible options lead to key moments. Jesus fulfilled those prophesies because he knew what to do to complete them and how they lead up to them. Revelations is essentially prophesy, but it just means all possible options still lead to key moments. Again if this how he says it then there is no free will. God knows all the possible choices we can make and all of them still lead to his desired outcome and fulfillment of his prophesies.

@davelanger 4 жыл бұрын

@@robodaviking2209 If god knows you are going to do choice A for example before you even do it, are you able to go against gods will and do another choice?

@robodaviking2209 4 жыл бұрын

davelanger That is not what I am saying. God knows all the possible choices you could make like a, b, c etc.while there might be something you are more likely to choose it doesn’t mean you have to take that choice. The point of this is that God is still giving you the chance to join him and you aren’t predestined to go to heaven or hell. His plan though is so great and he is so all knowing that he even with all of our individual choices that we can make that his prophesy and will still happens.

@davelanger 4 жыл бұрын

@@robodaviking2209 Yes we are predestined to go to heaven or hell. The bible even says that, you really need to read your own bible.

@robodaviking2209 4 жыл бұрын

davelanger I didn’t say that we have a choice to go to stay here or something. We all will go to heaven or hell but it is our choice on where we get to go by choosing to believe or not determines if you go to heaven or hell.

@criticalthinking1002 4 жыл бұрын

For the longest time, I was told by my church pastors and fellow Christian friends that the only reason God allows evil in this world is because he gave mankind free will. However, recently I began to think, if God cares so much about free will and yet he is also perfect and holy, what's the point of making the people He knows are going to reject him or even commit atrocities? My question to people that believe God gives free will is this: Is God obligated to create each and every human being who has or who will ever live? If so, wouldn't he not be all powerful and sovereign if he must be obliged to create you and me? Therefore, God must create us by his own volition, which means he could have made a better world, he could have decided to not create human beings that would commit atrocities or create those who would become unbelievers, sending them to hell (essentially, he could have chosen another way to create life on earth.)

@lets_wrapitup 2 жыл бұрын

He can’t force people not to sin, so them going to hell has nothing to do with him. Him knowing they will go to hell shouldn’t be a reason for them not to created… those chose to go to hell, they deserve that punishment (btw I don’t believe hell is eternal, but equal length to their sin). God isn’t obligated to do anything, he manages everything in the world just because he loves us. Him not creating people who would go to hell would bring unbalance the world, of course which God would know, he sustains everything that exists.

@johndpogi8273 4 жыл бұрын

If everything is predetermined what is the purpose if life then, and what is the sense of judgement day?

@holdonwhatsgoingon5551 4 жыл бұрын

My exact questions too. The instant your born god already knows if your going to hell or heaven so in a way he has already judged you so what is the point

@SolaFide_13 4 жыл бұрын

Hold on what’s going on : I like to think it’s possible he still creates that person because 1,) he’s still gonna give that person the gift of free will and 2.) that person like dr frank turek just said could be responsible for reproducing another person who will turn out to be christian. everything goes according to Gods plan. Now a question for you my friend: why should God just not create life because they will go to hell? i mean to me that seems like he’s taking away our free will right? and love without free will is meaningless so it wouldn’t be logically possible for God to do that. i hope that helps and make sense. God bless

@holdonwhatsgoingon5551 4 жыл бұрын

PGsmoove but then again hell is meaningless too. Whats the point if your not going to accomplish anything, if your never gonna die, if there isn’t anything to do etc... how is burning for eternity gonna help that person Learn there lesson? And you are actually faced with the illusion of free will because even if you have a choice you will still choose the predetermined choice no matter what you do your future self has already done it and the end result (heaven/hell) will never change

@SolaFide_13 4 жыл бұрын

Hold on what’s going on 1.) hell isn’t to learn a lesson. God is giving that person what they’ve wanted. when you choose to not follow God you choose to be in a life absence of God. and that’s exactly what hell is. it’s not to teach u a lesson it’s total separation from God. 2.) if free will is just an illusion, how i can i trust what you said is true? i mean it did take your free will to say that did it not? or was that also an illusion making your claim “free will is just an illusion” false.

@SolaFide_13 4 жыл бұрын

Hold on what’s going on : instead of false i should’ve said unreliable so i correct myself there.

@jesusislove84 6 жыл бұрын

If anyone goes to hell it's not God s fault

@youngurbangod1156 6 жыл бұрын

@kcuf7 Yet God knows who would and who wouldn't repent. How is that free will? That means choice is only an illusion. What you choose doesn't matter, because it will go towards what God KNOWS would happen.

@holysex1052 5 жыл бұрын

Lol

@ericmago4110 5 жыл бұрын

kcuf7 God knows everything. He knows how to make Atheists believe. He does not do anything to make Atheists believe. Atheists go to hell. They had free will. The fact that your god allows people to go to hell means that either 1. Your God is not omnipotent and can do everything - hence why he did not do anything to make Atheists believe 2. Not Omniscient and knows the future and every outcome 3. Not all loving and lets people burn in hell because he does not love everyone That is the undeniable. YOUR god is at least 1 of those. OR he just does not exist at all and free will is an illusion.

@brendanwatanabe2589 5 жыл бұрын

Eric Mago but he gave them a choice to believe, they chose not to listen, he has given warnings several times to repent and believe, if you don’t, he did warn you. It’s your punishment, think of love, love is letting someone choose what they want, would it be loving if we were mindless robots? To serve him unwillingly? I doubt it, so he gave us a choice BECAUSE he loves us.

@worl9830 5 жыл бұрын

@@ericmago4110 there are many things God can't do.

@bradleyconrad678 2 жыл бұрын

The argument falls apart when the fact that God created people knowing what choices they make comes up. He created them that way in his omniscience and omnipotence. Its perfectly reasonable for a non-creator and omniscient beings knowledge of the outcomes to not affect free will. However, if an omniscient God created beings knowing every choice they will make, then he must have created these beings to make these choices - he is both omniscient and omnipotent (and omnipresent as well. The speaker fails to account for this problem and just skirts around it. Fail.

@jesussavestrinahaifa5884 3 жыл бұрын

I've heard Dr Turek explain this concept before but this is the best video clip with a bit more detail that makes it crystal clear.

@brookeevans234 3 жыл бұрын

What a great answer!!! Heard this years ago have been looking for this video for ages. Thankyou Holy Spirit for leading me here

@christclinger6540 4 жыл бұрын

Best explanation I’ve ever heard! I’ve been saying this very same thing! But not payed out as beautifully. I always said it’s a perspective thing. From our perspective we have free will but from God’s perspective He knows the outcome. If God is Love, then by definition you can’t have love without freewill.

@5ivepoints18 4 жыл бұрын

The only thing we love is our sin. IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE TRULY FREE WILL & CHOSE CHRIST JESUS ON YOUR OWN....EXPLAIN THIS PLZ! John 1:11-13 "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." You see Jesus came to the Jews & they did not receive Him. But those who did receive Him became children of God. Now how were these people "born as children of God"? It was not by blood, like how Jewish people are born Jews, nor of their own fleshly WILL nor the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD. Allow me to paraphrase Ephesians 2:1-10: We were DEAD in our trespasses and sin, able to do nothing just like dead people can do nothing to help themselves. BUT GOD loved us so much that even while in this state of deadness HE MADE US ALIVE together with Christ in order that He might show His surpassing grace. God graciously SAVED YOU not as a result of your works, so you have nothing to boast about. Your faith did not originate in yourselves, it was a GIFT OF GOD! For we are His workmanship, created for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them, not even our good works are ours! 1Corinthians 15:10 "But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me." You see it wasn't his own vain laboring that got him to where he was, it was God's grace carrying him along to where God wanted him to go. If this is a question you struggle with please seek out John Piper's books on this topic. Our wills are trapped, enslaved & dead in sin & trespasses, unable freely choose God. Choosing God would be pleasing to God & the bible says we are unable to please God in our flesh. But God, for HIS NAME'S SAKE, to fulfill HIS PROMISES to Abraham & the new covenant, chooses a remnant to redeem & they were given to Christ by God (John 6:39 & John 10:29)

@yegorshalamai6716 3 жыл бұрын

But how can God interact with the world and us still have free will? If he helps a seeker to find Him, wouldn’t that be a violation of free will?

@flynnrider2871 2 жыл бұрын

Grace is a present from God wrapped up and ready to be opened by us. Jesus dying and paying for our sins is the gift he gives us. But a present is useless unless you open it. God can’t force us to open a present. If he forced us to love him it wouldn’t be love. Love must be freely given. So if God makes sure I get to heaven no matter what then I don’t have the free choice and will to choose to live him. God already knows who will be saved because he knows the future. He prepare a house in heaven for us but it’s only for those he knows will be saved. Any scripture you read and think it means a Calvinism view is because you are misinterpreting the scripture. This one fact proves my view…”Love is a free will choice. If I’m forced by Gods will to love him so I may be saved it’s not real love”

@a.39886 2 жыл бұрын

vInteresting I guess. It's like if you had a dog in the back yard, and you love that dog more than anything. You're also all powerful and all knowing. There's also a bear trap there, that it will get caught in and suffer for days, and then die. Did you put that bear trap there, did you create bear traps, could you have not? Could you have made it disappear, or move it outside the fence? Could you not train the dog to avoid bear traps? Your options are endless, unless you're powerless or are absent love, or non-existent.

@KWH616 Жыл бұрын

@@yegorshalamai6716the very fact that you know the outcome of the game means that no other choices could have been made, thus eliminating the concept of free will because no other actions could have happened. if God intervened and made a change to the game then there would be two options for what happened , either way , it was predetermined already. you cannot have a free will in this context , and if protestants were honest they would be calvinists and not claim free will as a salient option

@thebibleformula 5 жыл бұрын

Here's the paradox of truth: God's sovereignty and human responsibility.

@TheBluegoatman 4 жыл бұрын

God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, 'What doest thou?' Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so. A.W. Tozer

@LSLuikart 4 жыл бұрын

@@TheBluegoatman Thank you! :)

@BobcatWabbit 4 жыл бұрын

All this talk and not one mention of our Lord and Savior. Christ Jesus alone is salvation. Love never fails, Gods love never fails, Gods love for mankind will not fail. Mortal puny man is weak by sin and Christ Jesus fulfilled the law; of sin and death. By becoming a sin offering by becoming flesh and conquering the flesh sinless and blameless. We now are now justified, by faith in Christ Jesus. The past is gone , the old schoolmaster was a foreshadow of a great thing. Christ Jesus is the new law. Law of love. Christ is love. 2. New commandments hes giving us. Love the Lord your God with all your heart all your soul and all your might. 2. Love your neighbor as yourself This fulfills the law Preach the law of Jesus whom is love and mercy which endureth forever. How great and beautiful is our Lord and Savior Not only ours but for the lost world He will not loose one and He will bring it to pass For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God, who WILL have ALL mankind to be saved Mercy triumphs judgment His mercy endureth forever He is God Almighty Creator of heavens and the earth His will be done Amen in Christ

@spacecadetmcgee7349 7 ай бұрын

That student looks completely unconvinced and so he should be, he shot down the sports false analogy in one sentence, then got a bunch of baloney not actually answering the question.

@Islam-gy9lj 4 жыл бұрын

As a Muslim I am amazed how well the speaker answered this question on free will and everything being known to God.

@Yossarian. Жыл бұрын

If a man, let's call him Dave, won the lottery with a lottery ticket he bought for the very first lottery draw held in England, and God foresaw that this would happen before Dave was even created, could dave have then chosen not to buy that first lottery ticket?

@exodiadust7223 Жыл бұрын

@@Yossarian. ye he could have chose not to buy that ticket but then god would not have foreseen him buying it God knows what you are going to do he doesn't force u to do it. If the argument is God knows you are going to choose option B could you choose option A, yes but then God would have known you would have chose option A, but you didn't choose option A you chose B and that why God knows you chose B, but it's still your choice.

@Yossarian. Жыл бұрын

@Exodia Dust So does Dave have the choice to trick god by suddenly not buying the ticket?

@exodiadust7223 Жыл бұрын

@@Yossarian. silly the choice that you make is the choice god knows you are gonna make 😂 “Dave trying to go against what God knows” is useless because his choices are the independent variable and God’s knowledge is the dependent

@Yossarian. Жыл бұрын

@@exodiadust7223 Gods knowledge is dependent on what?

@a.nash.594 3 жыл бұрын

Oh I’ve always struggled with this question. I’ve always framed it that God knows every single possible decision that we as human beings can make in an infinite universes existing simultaneously such that the outcomes are already known. That God has preordained path’s, the a golden path, that is aligned with his will that leads to God, and each decision we make is a decision that either aligns with his golden path or strays away from it. The paths of the decisions exist and God knows the out comes but it’s still personal choice. It bothers me to think that some would be called to God and others not. I guess With how I’m framing it it I view God’s omniscience and our free will like a HUGE complex maze like we are mice and God knows all the twists and turns that can be made. The maze ends in two options a big piece of cheese at one end, and the other end a rotten cheese in a mouse trap. At the beginning p, the start of the maze, the rotten cheese is the only cheese the mice smell. Every step and every turn the mice makes in the maze is a decision that leads us to the end (death). That maybe at the beginning of the maze the cheese as we the mice wonder through wondering what knowing that a cheese is at the end. Then at some point along the maze the good choose is revealed. Presenting a new smell. Now all mice can smell the two different cheeses. Some continue to follow the path that leads to the rotten cheese because that is what they know and they don’t trust the smell of the good cheese. And those that that ultimately choose to trust the smell of the good cheese with the belief/faith of that smell being better, change from their path of following to the bad cheese and follow the scent to the good cheese instead. Maybe God ordained the outcomes by determining who would be better able to discern the good smelling cheese versus the bad one. But before reaching the end of the maze, the mice had the opportunity to smell both cheeses and choose with smell to continue to follow to the end on the promise that the smell held. Does this make sense?! Or Maybe this whole analogy is the capitalist in me wanting equal opportunity, but the onus of choosing to be with God is on us and not Him the creator. That everyone would have the opportunity to know God on earth but that some choose to deny and some accept. Someone tell me if I’m crazy or just rambling.

@harrybinn4455 6 жыл бұрын

I use the analogy of a parent and child, having actually experienced this situation. A child wants to go and do some activity but as a parent you already know what is going to happen with that activity. Does the fact that as I parent I know what is going to happen make the child choose that course of action? This analogy came about as my ex decided to take her oldest son to pick out a movie. Knowing the temperament of both individuals I advised her against the actions but she was adamant and I let her head off with him. Coming back he stormed up the stairs and she came into kitchen in a foul mood. They had gotten in a huge argument over the type of movie to pick up. I knew this was going to happen because I KNEW intimately both of the people involved. Did that knowledge make them choose differently? No. Also, if God exists in or above the time dimension, seeing the end to begging, the God has already seen everyone's choice. (Think of this like the movie Ground Hog Day). Again, God has intimate knowledge of the person and the situations. Does that mean that the people were forced to act a certain way? Again the obvious answer to me is no. Foreknowledge or Intimate acquaintanceship does not restrict other people in their choices. To really know what does affect peoples choices just go watch some TV, movies or some other media and you'll see the attempts easily enough in them.

@GiornoGiovana 5 жыл бұрын

your kid could always surprise you. THe infallibility in unpredictability of people makes that known, not saying it would happen but your knowledge is still limited so it wouldn't prove that it would happen without a shadow of a doubt. But a god who cannot be wrong about an even, and judging by the words of others cannot change his mind or actions, sees and event and that event will happen no matter what is proof of predetermined events that show that free will is non existant. If your knowledge wipes away any chance of a different even occuring, like how someone will die, what someone believes or even if they will have children then no free will actually exists.

@grassytramtracks 2 жыл бұрын

There is a big difference, God is supposedly infallible and omniscient, you are not, and even people you know really well can surprise you and your knowledge is not what is certain to inevitably happen. You don't know how they'd react, you're just presuming how they're most likely to act, even if you're 99.999999999999999% certain to be correct, that's not 100% sure God is supposed to be

@jesushad12gayfriendwhoallb50 2 жыл бұрын

So god is seeing people’s choices before they even make the choice. You do realize your goal is to argue for free will not predeterminism right?

@harrybinn4455 2 жыл бұрын

@@jesushad12gayfriendwhoallb50No. I'm actually not. Just because someone knows a person so well that they can predict the actions to a particular event doesn't remove that person's free will.

@a.39886 2 жыл бұрын

@davidgriffore9443 2 ай бұрын

Isn't the wisest answer: I don't know? Isn't the best response: Frank doesn't know? Isn't the most learned reply: We have no answer? My goodness! There's humility in just saying, "I do not really know. I just don't know.........."

@chrisbrower9532 3 жыл бұрын

Really great answers; even answered the logical next question w/o it being asked. 👏🏻

@bradleyconrad678 2 жыл бұрын

But he doesn’t answer it at all, he just skirts around it.

@MichealQuinm 4 жыл бұрын

Question: if god can change us while creating us to make us a believer or put us in a situation where we would end up believing, would that somehow remove free will? Also, according to frank god creates us and our situation knowing what will happened once we enter this situation and he has the ability to change attributes of us and our situation. So with this in mind, can someone plz explain to me how franks answer makes any sense

@robbiemckenzie7822 2 жыл бұрын

No one can.

@davedan9370 7 жыл бұрын

One of the finest answer for this question , great

@McCauky 2 жыл бұрын

If God knows the future, can we do things against what he knows? If we can, then he doesn't know the future. If we can't, then there is no free will

@charlesedward313 6 жыл бұрын

this guy is unbelievable

@camc5483 3 жыл бұрын

A master of misdirection. A true evangelist. Dude did NOT get his question answered, but the audience was happy.

@Lololsans 3 жыл бұрын

When you listen to what he says his points are so clearly trying to hide their own flaws - he only can accomplish it because either his audience don’t actually care or they are convinced by how he talks, not what he says

@CDJRsByDustin 3 жыл бұрын

Doesn’t actually explain gods choice in salvation

@ThisguySL 2 жыл бұрын

Considering the question was about how God and his choices set the stage for everything that goes on with our lives, the people who didn't choose to exist and have these supposed conditions laid out on us and the options we're limited to thanks to his divine plan, that was the point of interest coming from his question and Turek's answer is to direct away from it and say "well... but the football players had options, so God is actually good." As if that's how accountability works.

@camc5483 2 жыл бұрын

@@ThisguySL I'm not sure, based on that reply, if we're on the same page. I'm a believer, but I have problems with man's idea of what we are to believe. I feel that, although we are created beings with free will, free will is a byproduct of creation. God knows how we started, and how we'll end, based on our hive-like behavior, but not necessarily because of our choices. Human behavior makes our outcome inevitable. God wrote it into our DNA.

@ThisguySL 2 жыл бұрын

@@camc5483 I'm not a believer and I don't think you and I are in any real disagreement there. My point is free will or not, it's entirely irrelevant to whether you could adequately absolve God of the actions of people, given that according to scripture the circumstances of their lives are predicated on the choices he made that led to the creation of the world, the creation of man, and the circumstances that led to the fall that took place shortly after, let alone absolve him entirely. Which is what these arguments are designed to accomplish.

@westpole 3 жыл бұрын

With all due respect, the logic here is deeply flawed to say the least. If an apparent 'god' really knows how something is going to turn out from beginning to the end and he knows the choices a person would make, that in itself is a predetermined notion. Unlike the football game, where the players have already played their game and the guy gets to know about said game only after it has occured, it in no way justifies having any pre-deterministic value. You can't just pick and choose if God exists within the fabric of time or outside of it, based on what suits your narrative.

@daintymarie5271 3 жыл бұрын

I have a personal theory about this topic that may help. Our lives are led by the choices that we make. But before making those choices we have options. God knows all the possible versions of your life it is all foreseen. God knows that this wouldve been you if you chose or did not choose this. BUT among those many outcomes of our lives it is our choice whether to trust god's direction for our life or trust in ourselves, or trust in horoscopes etc. We have freedom in what we choose. God will not force you to choose him. But he sees your heart before you make a choice therefore he knows what youre about to choose.

@teoteodora7676 3 жыл бұрын

@@daintymarie5271 I think it makes sense. I actually believe in God and over the past weeks i've been getting a lot closer to Him but the single thing that bothers me is why would He create people that didnt choose him, and then punish them for eternity. Maybe those people just didnt wanna exist at all, why not just accept they didnt choose God and just erase them from existence instead of hell for eternity. Im not trying to argue or anything, but I am very open to understand this cus this is really getting in my way and confuses me.

@daintymarie5271 3 жыл бұрын

@@teoteodora7676 well I understand you. That baffled me now too to be honest hahaha. But this thought came into my mind, this is just my opinion lol, not from any church or apologist, i just thought of it now. Creating a person who chooses you is just umm, not justifiable. Imagine you're God, and you created people that has no freedom to live however they want, they are only bound to choose god and live a god centered life. As humans we think that's how it should be it makes more sense so that no people would burn in hell. But putting yourself in the shoes of God, he is a loving God not a demanding one. So he created humans, showered them with blessing and everything else they needed (sun, earth, ocygen, food, etc.) cause God loves his creation. However we have the freedom to think for our own so it is a choice for us every day, every minute and second to choose God or to make ourselves God's of our own lives. A.K.A separation from God, A.K.A sin. So since God hates sin or rebellion against him, he offers grace and mercy for people throughout our entire lives to repent and choose him, but for those who stay in their pride till they die, then they chose to be separated from God, and God's anger will be showered there in hell cause here on earth he showers mercy & grace.

@teoteodora7676 3 жыл бұрын

@@daintymarie5271 Yes i understand that and it makes sense. But what i dont understand is why would they suffer for eternity? Thats like a lot, and its very hard to imagine someone who will go thru torture forever, non stop. My question is why wouldnt God simply erase from existance those people after they chose not to follow Him. I choose Him and I want to go to heaven and be in his presence but why not just make those who dont want that dissapear, ceasing to exist. I get why unbelievers exists, but after they existed and decided they dont want to follow God they just vanish forever. Im so confused i really wanna understand that

@daintymarie5271 3 жыл бұрын

@@teoteodora7676 ive thought about this too. God did say he will make a new heaven and earth. the future is still very mysterious. anything could happen i mean only God knows if he'll keep souls in hell for eternity.

@johnjr578 Жыл бұрын

It's a question I wrestled with too and but it reassures me that God knows, I don't know how my life will play but I truly trust in him even the moments that might make me question my faith in him that may/will come. Only thing I know for sure I trust him. To some it may sound insane and foolish, but ill tell you Glory be to God

@DruPetty42 6 жыл бұрын

That's one of the questions that I think atheists ask in an attempt to discredit God as good and place the blame on him.

@sidwhiting665 4 жыл бұрын

True. Also I hear a lot of "Christians" ask the same question when seeking to escape the results of sin. "Why did God make me so lustful?" asks the Christian struggling with porn addition. "Why did God make me so angry?" says the Christian who struggles with anger. Etc. Rather than focusing on the sin and fleeing from it, we seek to blame God for "making me this way."

@Arena1999 4 жыл бұрын

That's ridiculous. Atheists wouldn't place the blame on a god if they don't believe said god exists.

@DruPetty42 4 жыл бұрын

@@Arena1999 So, why do atheists ask why God made them the way they are and ask other questions like that? That's placing the blame on God yet they don't believe he exists. Why would they ask that question if they don't believe he exists? Why do they take issue with the way they are if they don't believe God exists?

@Arena1999 4 жыл бұрын

@@DruPetty42 What you don't understand is that these questions aren't being directed at your god, they're being directed at theists claiming their god is real. Atheists ask these questions because they want a convincing argument as to why they should believe in such a being. Many atheists grew up believing in a god. You, and many, many, other Christians hold your beliefs as "absolute" truth, typically with very little reasoning or verification to vindicate said beliefs. Again, they _aren't_ asking "God" those questions. Them not believing that "He" exists has no bearing at all because they expect *you* to answer those questions, not "Him". They want *you* to be able justify your faith in your god. Atheists don't take issue with the way they are. Plenty of them are happy without believing that they burn for eternity for not believing in the "wrong" deity. Religions, on the other hand...

@DruPetty42 4 жыл бұрын

@@Arena1999, Asking questions like the one I mentioned that atheists ask isn't a question directed at the theist's claim of God's existence. Atheists aren't asking those questions because they want a convincing argument. After all, they say that there isn't enough evidence to warrant belief in God. Therefore, they can't be convinced. It's not that "many atheists grew up believing in a god", all atheists grew up believing in the God of the Bible. What their reasons were, I can't say. You assume that other Christians, along with myself, "as "absolute" truth, typically with very little reasoning or verification to vindicate said beliefs". It's quite the contrary but I can only assume that you haven't come across thinking Christians. It's not that what we believe can't be justified. Atheists reject what Christians say and/or throw it back in our faces. We answer atheist's questions but they see our answers as absurd, idiotic, ludicrous, senseless, etc., and do so without a second thought. Atheists don't consider what Christians actually say even when the Christian presents facts and what not. You said, "Plenty of them [atheists] are happy without believing that they burn for eternity for not believing in the "wrong" deity". This has nothing to do with that. You're implying that I'm saying that atheists are not happy with themselves or with the way they are; I never said that. What you said in your last sentence is a misrepresentation of Christian beliefs/religion itself. What I said is about free will. Atheists don't believe we have free will because God knows our every thought before we think it. From there they conclude we don't have free will and will ask the question of why God made us like that; atheists believe God made them that way and take issue with that. Atheists see God's knowledge as causation and predeterminism but that couldn't be further from the truth.

@francoisvanstaden8943 7 жыл бұрын

Frank, I like your passion for Christ and think you are doing great work brother. I do however have watched some of your videos and wonder why you don't use scripture to explain issues such as this? Would it not have been simpler to explain to this young man, that God changes our desire and that we then desire to serve HIM and therefore we choose God because we now want to? I know that I am not going into a lot of detail only because i don't want to write an essay on Free will. But i could if needs be. I sometimes feel that trying to use an analogy doesn't always explain the point. Bless you and I pray for the work you do.

@holybruno 6 жыл бұрын

Francois Van Staden providing evidence for free will using scriptures. Why do christians think this is a valid rebuttal? lmao

@Gumpmachine1 6 жыл бұрын

Because scripture is the thing he’s trying to prove. Scripture is the claim

@canarbtreefort84 6 жыл бұрын

But if God changes our desires, doesn't that mean we don't have free will? Where does our desires come from in the first place? Does God give us our desires?

@N0UTube4U 6 жыл бұрын

he is generally addressing a room full of atheists who have no regard for God's word. He must speak from a viewpoint where they will at least listen. Star quoting the bible and they shut down.

@rwd2213 6 жыл бұрын

If you notice, Jesus did not always quote from the OT, but also used parables to illustrate truths found in the Bible. For example, the parable of the prodigal son, who exercised his free will to return to his father, when he got tired of eating pig slop. Now, what is interesting is that I not only used an analogy, but I also used scripture, though at the time, the NT wasn't written yet. However, if you step into that thought once more, it was written, even before Jesus spoke it. Analogies illustrate truth.

@mariokalash1338 4 жыл бұрын

What about God predestinating me to Hell and not giving me salvation or redemption when I asked for it. Where is my free will there?

@Iampossible376 4 жыл бұрын

Salvation is a free gift of God. He already gave it to mankind.. All you need to do is receive that by trusting in the finished work of death of Jesus on the cross.. Once you believe that you are his responsibility.. You have a choice now whether to accept or reject.

@DoctorStranger99 Жыл бұрын

I couldn't believe it!! Glad i had found the answer! Thank you!

@simclimie6045 6 жыл бұрын

you do have free will Deuteronomy 30 19 through 20

@jesussaves1875 6 жыл бұрын

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" Deuteronomy 30v19

@truth4099 5 жыл бұрын

Nats J.v.R is that basically saying life is predetermine?

@anar3602 5 жыл бұрын

@@truth4099 it says "Choose life".

@anar3602 4 жыл бұрын

@Natturner So because we were created we can't choose love vs hate? Now THAT'S just ridiculous logic.

@anar3602 4 жыл бұрын

@Natturner I disagree, whole heartedly. Merit has nothing to do with love or hate. People choose everyday to love inspite of evil. People choose everyday to hate inspite of love. Love exists, it's a real thing that surpasses all logic. It's the one thing that babies cannot survive without . . . they literally die. It's interesting that you shot yourself in the foot the moment you mentioned merit and reasoning _("deem it believable")._ To reason on a concept involves choosing either way you cut it. I guess you inadvertently agreed with me after all. Good job.

@ashleyraley8124 4 жыл бұрын

Wow I really liked this explanation..very good thank you!!

@fridolin3373 3 жыл бұрын

This guy is truly a snake-oil salesman and anyone falling for his football analogy is quite frankly, a bit simpleminded.

@akoskormendi9711 3 жыл бұрын

It's probably the worst analogy I have heard, it baffled me when someone first used it to argue with me

@parker6936 3 жыл бұрын

Quite an accusation, accusing someone of purposely lying. Care to explain how you came to that conclusion? Also, how is that a bad analogy. I thought it was pretty sound.

@rockyp32 2 жыл бұрын

Why’s it bad. Knowing the outcome of a game doesn’t mean they don’t have free will

@fridolin3373 2 жыл бұрын

@@rockyp32 You can't have free will, if every thought and action is predetermined.

@rockyp32 2 жыл бұрын

@@fridolin3373 he just knows the outcone

@c.galindo9639 10 ай бұрын

It’s complicated for us to comprehend but a Being that created our complex works has made it a just existence for us to freely be who we choose to be and not what He wants us to be

@nathanjTrott 8 жыл бұрын

awesome explanation praise God

@dustinlesuer2967 4 жыл бұрын

Love your work! And I totally agree with it but might I pose a possibility. Suppose free will was more like different paths in life to take, and each person can freely choose a path. While God knows the outcome of all those different paths he still can allow for the free will of the people. Rather than just one path that is like watching a recorded football game. I dunno if this idea's right nor if it breaks anything biblical, but I have wondered if that might be a better explaination.

@grassytramtracks 2 жыл бұрын

But if God already knew which path were you were going to go down, he'd still know what would happen, therefore your decisions wouldn't mean anything and would have no consequences

@dustinlesuer2967 2 жыл бұрын

@@grassytramtracks How so?

@ianbrooks4516 6 жыл бұрын

He didn't answer the question. He tried, but he I dont think he could answer it in a way sufficient for the boy who walked away clearly unsatisfied

@hulksmash5467 5 жыл бұрын

He was unsatisfied of the answer, now he knows there is a God, and one day he Will stand before Him. I bet his way of life does not fit in Christianity.

@avivastudios2311 Жыл бұрын

That analogy was perfect. This is a man who's been thinking.

@manyodude 4 жыл бұрын

If God knew I was a believer... Wtf am I still here😂😂

@save_theworld 4 жыл бұрын

The question goes to you. Do you wanna die now? If He takes your life for being a believer in Him, will you see him as doing the right thing?

@shawnhenry1895 3 жыл бұрын

@@save_theworld no be he should come to the believers and give them a choice if they want to stay or leave

@brokenrock9938 4 жыл бұрын

This explains nothing. And if you think this does you haven’t pondered “free will” enough

@stonewolf5613 4 жыл бұрын

why?

@anguswu2685 4 жыл бұрын

StoneWolf his analogy is actually not accurate. In the case of god, god knows everything before anything happens supposedly. However in the recorded football analogy, the main character does not know the scores at the beginning, he was then *told* the scores, then he knew before he watches the games. A better question to ask (an extension of this question asked in the video) is, if god knows everything from the beginning, he would know who becomes a believer and who doesn’t. Those who don’t will go to hell. Why would be create beings knowing they will go to hell? Is it just and allloving for a god to create people knowing they will suffer eternal death according to the bible? This is one of the first questions that got me to deconvert from being Christian to atheist. It might be uncomfortable at first that something makes no sense, but if the bible and god is all knowing, everything should be explained without plot holes right? I encourage you to think through these questions, perhaps you’ll get something out of this, whether be a stronger faith, or the continual questioning of religion. We are here to help you :)

@stonewolf5613 4 жыл бұрын

@@anguswu2685 The thing is though, what's the alternative? Since God wants us to have free will, he must also allow us to choose not to follow him. If he didn't allow it, then we wouldn't have free will and if humans don't have free will, what point is there in creating humans in the first place? God created us to have some who, by their own volition, choose to enjoy creation with him. If he began to place boundaries on how we can get to that, was it truly by our own volition that we came to follow him? I would argue no. Is it truly love if it is forced upon you and you are not capable of turning it down? To that I would also argue no. Therefore if God placed boundaries on our actions, everyone would be outside of God's love and not only those who chose not to accept it. While the fact that some choose the later pains me greatly, it is infinitely better than the former. As you might notice I don't agree with you on this being a plot hole :). You're right though that we should continuously question our beliefs, no matter what they are. I would be wary though in discarding it all because you find one or a few ideas which you can't wrap your head around. We are limited mortal beings and will never fully understand everything, let alone religion! Just because we have yet to explain how one of the four fundamental forces work, gravity, does not mean we should toss it out entirely for this very large "plot hole". Thank you for giving me this opportunity to think through these thoughts which I've had in my head for a while but never written down before. it is only by having discussions like these that we both can come closer to the truth! :)

@Moonbow826 4 жыл бұрын

@@stonewolf5613 Free will is a complicated thing. Which is why some people don't think it exists and some just aren't sure (like myself). The thing is that IF there is no free will, we probably wouldn't even know it. Because free will just means that you truly make FREE choices. As soon as you have something that can predict your choices with 100% certainty free will goes out the window.

@stonewolf5613 4 жыл бұрын

@@Moonbow826 I agree with you on that and there does not seem as if science can give us, at least as of yet, any clear indication as to whether it exists or not. The existence of free will is the axiom of my belief system.

@joshuawilkin2120 6 жыл бұрын

It's not "free will" it's "free choice" because our paths have already been laid out before us by God, but He still lets us make a choice for right or wrong, good or bad. In the book of Jeremiah, God told Jeremiah that before He formed him in his mother's belly, He already knew him. So Jeremiah's path was already laid out before him, before he was even born. Our lives have already been preordained before our birth, before our parents conceived us. God gives us the freedom of choice, but our lives have already been laid out before us. That's not "free will".

@raimiranda126 6 жыл бұрын

Good point. I like that. Even the word free will is nowhere found in The Bible. Please correct Me if its there cos I might've missed that part. Free choice, I like that. Jeremiah same as Jonah. God KNEW and somehow programmed Jeremiah to be a prophet and Jonah to Ninevah. So when Jonah used his free CHOICE to go the other direction, God in a way said wait, I didn't programmed you for that, and sent a whale. Wow. So much for free will and free choice. What IF someone choose to marry a girl he likes but God wants that person to be celibate? All He does is send a whale---no, turn his heart and mind around to forget about a married life and focus on what He wants. So much for ones hopes and dreams. Proverbs 19:21 There are many plans in a man’s heart, BUT Yahweh’s counsel will prevail.

@raimiranda126 5 жыл бұрын

absolutely, if there's foreknowledge there could be no free will. I have to make a slight correction to what I said, the only "freewill" that is found in the Bible is "freewill offerings" but yes, since there's Someone who knows what one will "offer" before he offers, its technically not free will at all

@therealgospelofchrist6823 5 жыл бұрын

It's not even "free choice"... take the word "free" completely out of the equation. There is nothing "free" about the human will or human choice. All choices are influenced by some causal force.

@jeffdom123 5 жыл бұрын

@@therealgospelofchrist6823 That is not necessarily true. If you are tempted to have sex It is your choice wether or not you do it. These choices may lead to outcomes, but at some point you will have another definite choice.

@therealgospelofchrist6823 5 жыл бұрын

@@jeffdom123 It is absolutely true... All choices are caused by something... Why would anyone ever be "tempted" to have sex? Because sex feels good and humans are sexual creatures. If you are tempted to eat something sweet you are tempted because sweet things taste good. Either you give in to the temptation or you will yourself not to but even if you will yourself not to that is not without motivation. I may choose to deny myself sweets simply because they are unhealthy. I may choose not to have sex because I care more about staying pure for marriage or maybe because I don't want children. Maybe I would fear catching a disease but all those possible outcomes have consequences eliminating the possibility of the choice being free to be made (without restraint). If I put a gun to your head and tell you to give me your wallet, are you FREE to not give me your wallet? Not if you don't want to die and considering that most people don't want to die, most would comply under those circumstances. There is NO such thing as free will. Free will is an illusion...

@pedestrian_0 2 жыл бұрын

"Yes God know everything you're gonna do...but you're still free to accept him or not." In what world does this make any sense except for the bubble Turek's cultivated? It doesn't take much time to recognize how bizarre this argument is, he knows it sounds contradictory but he has nothing else to say other than "you feel free, therefore you are" but it's pretty obvious that free will is going to slowly go away as science reveals everything about neurology

@Ponera-Sama 2 жыл бұрын

The fatal flaw in Frank's analogy of a recorded football game: The football game players may have free will, but the recording of the football players definitely don't. If the football players played another game later, the scores could be different, but if you play the recording again, assuming it hasn't been edited, the scores will always be the same. So if God is omniscient and outside of time, then we aren't the football players in this analogy, we are the recording.

@williamstrumfels3305 8 жыл бұрын

how comfortable to live a life were your convinced there is a magic man in the sky and when questioned about the magic man you can make up any excuse to make all the pieces of this puzzle fit and you just sit there and nod and think with out question what other humans tell you.... YEP..... COMFORTABLE

@STREEEEEET 8 жыл бұрын

Except that this man in the sky is a strawman that atheists created duo to either intellectual dishonest or ignorance. And the 'excuses' you refer to is called theology and philosophy.

@williamstrumfels3305 8 жыл бұрын

STREEEEEET wow... seems as though you could be be a good used car sales man after that.. its all magic / super natural .. if it gives you inter peace go for it its a big zero to me

@caseylee3345 8 жыл бұрын

+William Strumfels haha. exactly

@STREEEEEET 8 жыл бұрын

William Strumfels That was an interesting response., on the first half you were intellectually dishonest by not engaging in a debate but still addressing my comment with empty sarcasm. On the second half you seemed genuinely ignorant. So kudos to you, you managed to be both in just 4 lines.

@kylealandercivilianname2954 8 жыл бұрын

+youngnixx88788 I love how you just completely straw maned what Christians believe in

@dschmidt04 8 жыл бұрын

no, it doesn't make any sense at all. if god knows all, how could I freely choose to surprise him w/ some random act I might do? if he knows all that I will do, then I can only do those things, and nothing else from my own free will

@FRN2013 8 жыл бұрын

You must be trying not to understand God, Dane. C'mon, it's not that hard! I have an illustration regarding the alleged conflict over God's allowing of human free will: Picture a flawlessly smooth beach. You want to create a likeness of the Mona Lisa in the sand...without touching the beach. If you were like the way some people view God as being, you could build a bunch of robots, programming them to march in certain ways so as to leave footprints that end up creating the Mona Lisa's image. That would be a great accomplishment. BUT if you were like the way God is, you could fly over the beach in a helicopter & drop _cats_ at various places. You would know exactly where each cat would choose to run, & you would know the best place to drop each one. In the end, your Mona Lisa would be created by your foreknowledge AND by the cats' free will. And it would be a far greater accomplishment than the robot image.

@AudioGardenSlave123 8 жыл бұрын

I don't see the problem. God has a plan, that plan was made with omniscience, with the knowledge of what every persons given actions and inactions are God works in such a way as to use our actions for his purpose. For instance God makes a small rain shower occur before a woman leaves for work. She stops outside for a moment after a lightning stike. This two or three seconds of hesitation lets a passing truck go by before she back out of her driveway into its path. God influenced the scenario with foreknowledge, but in no way took control away from the people involved. His knowledge may change our circumstances never our freewill. It's pretty simple.

@AudioGardenSlave123 8 жыл бұрын

Dane your talking like you a nothing more than a thought in Gods head. His knowledge of your actions in no way infringes on your will. You seem to be more concerned that you can't surprise God. But, if you could he wouldn't be omniscient, and wouldn't have the ability to create a plan for saving as many as would allow themselves to be saved, and therefore wouldn't be the mind behind the universe since God would be nothing more than a blind cause who would have no ability to create with a will or purpose in mind beforehand so would be little more than a force without a will and without a will he isn't a mind and without a mind he couldn't create and if he cannot create he has no power and if he has no power he is... nothing at all. That was one very long run-on sentence. Wow. Hope it made sense it was just a stream I was just drifting along with it.

@rhpicayune 8 жыл бұрын

him KNOWING what you'll do isn't the same as DECIDING/ ENFORCING what you'll do...he sees what YOU choose to do...he only SEES what YOU"LL choose--not MAKES you do it...

@PGBurgess 8 жыл бұрын

+rhpicayune it doesn't matter that he merely 'sees it'. if he can see the future, this means it is set and thus unalterable.

@cathysampson8359 8 ай бұрын

That’s not predestination. That’s FOREKNOWLEDGE.

@larondemeritte2761 7 ай бұрын

But he created everything so it is predestination If you knew your son would die by age 6 would continue his birth

@bibleexplainedsimply 4 жыл бұрын

He is outside of time? That means he can't be omnipresent

@Iampossible376 4 жыл бұрын

Why not.. He is not bound by time..

@ELECTRICEYEMEDIA 6 жыл бұрын

If I tell you there’s a fire-breathing dragon that lives in my garage, you will ask me to show you. But my response is “I forgot to say that it’s an invisible dragon”. "OK” you say “No problem - we’ll sprinkle flour over the floor so that it will leave footprints”. “Good idea” say I, “but I should have mentioned that the invisible dragon hovers a few feet off the ground”. “No sweat” you say “We’ll mount sensors to detect the heat from its fiery breath”. “Good idea” say you, “but I forgot to say that the fiery breath is in fact heatless”. And so on, with me always coming up with reasons why you can’t carry out any tests. Now, the point is - just what is the difference between an invisible, floating dragon that breathes heatless fire and cannot be detected by any means, and nothing at all? The moment anyone proposes an untestable thing, the onus of proof is upon them to show that what they propose is different from nothing.

@JQHNDi 5 жыл бұрын

There is no difference Neither exists. If you are trying to compare God to this make believe dragon, then you are making a category error. God actually exists, has acted and spoken in time in a way that is intelligible to humanity, and has left you without excuse for denying him, your make believe dragon has done and is none of those things ;)

@childboo2450 5 жыл бұрын

@@JQHNDi You're right. There is no difference at all. Your story book is a part of your claim, not evidence of it.

@JQHNDi 5 жыл бұрын

@@childboo2450 you missed my point. The point was that the experiment was not an accurate representation of what God has revealed of himself through nature or his word... I never suggested to give you evidence, evidence goes to the judge, not to the guilty sinner who is on trial (you).

@GSpotter63 5 жыл бұрын

@@childboo2450 But there is plenty of evidence of the story book..... So your argument fails.

@summertimerobot437 5 жыл бұрын

The question wasn't answered for me.

@anar3602 5 жыл бұрын

What question do you still have? An attempt to anticipate your question, how about starting with: God's intent - His intention was perfect, to create beings in His likeness that had the choice to choose self-less love [Him]. If it was a choice, there had to be options, which includes evil. He put His laws on their hearts, gave them purpose and authority in Him to manage and care for the earth, bruise evil's head and commanded them that go, live, and choose.

@summertimerobot437 5 жыл бұрын

@@anar3602 That's like telling my child that she has a choice of going to bed with time for a story and cuddle or being naughty and going to bed without a story and maybe a cuddle. Either way, she is still going to bed and I know that whatever choice she makes. So, by the same token, if God knows the outcomes of our choice already then do we really have "free will"? He knows who chooses Life and who chooses Death so our choices are not choices and are more destiny I guess?

@anar3602 5 жыл бұрын

@@summertimerobot437 That really isn't the same thing. If you tell a child they're going to bed, you're physically there prompting them, leading them by the hand all the way. God is invisible, knowing every step but still letting you choose the whole way. In the scenario of the Bible the child is in house with cameras. There's a note from mom and/or dad telling the child to go to bed (with the assumption that the child can read). Now. . . . will they go to bed? Just because God knows doesn't mean that He's not calling you every step of the way. Sending reminders, nudges, and people to talk to them. No one will be able to say that He didn't try to reach them. In spite of all He does, they still turn their heart away every single time. Most Christians that have walked in rebellion say, in hindsight, that God was there the whole time calling them. He does try to reach people, but in the end, they choose.

@therealgospelofchrist6823 5 жыл бұрын

That's because the question has a false premise. Everything is not necessarily determined and humans do not have free will.

@therealgospelofchrist6823 5 жыл бұрын

@@anar3602 God's plan is perfect but God's plan is not yet complete. Man being created flesh was never intended to be perfect for with the flesh comes all of the lusts thereof. God is "spirit" so for the fullness of God's creation to be completed man must also be made into spiritual beings. It's a process that has not yet come to its completion.

@kurt9127 2 жыл бұрын

Totally missed the point Frank, if God knows the end, knows meaning including every detail of it and what will happen when the end comes, what can I (the owner of that end) do to not face that end? If ultimately my end is in Hell, I don't think there' s a bargain that can be made enough to shift that destination or that will be illogical from the premise "God sees the end (me in hell)" .

@PeterKristl 7 жыл бұрын

1:38 - 1:48 is contradiction. ABSOLUTE contradiction. If he knows what happened and it is in his mind, then it means had ti happened and we didn't have a choice to change it. Otherwise there will be a possibility god is wrong. And that's the contradiction. AND exactly the same stupid analogy between 1:48 and 2::03. Where is the OPTION when we were CREATED ALREADY to choose to be believer/atheist??? Doesn't make sense, does it? The thing is you have to take time to think about it and they KNOW IT. So they react straight away and you are done...

@horizon1132 6 жыл бұрын

david t Not really

@waterpail5253 5 жыл бұрын

My goodness, you’ve never raised a child didnt’ you? If i give my child choices on vanilla or chocolate icecream, whom I know very well of what she will choose, but I still give her choice, and I know she will choose vanilla, and she does. SHE DEFINITELY HAS HER FREE WILL.

@GiornoGiovana 5 жыл бұрын

@@waterpail5253 your right, because your aren't taking away the possibility she will pick chocolate, no matter how well do you know your daughter she can surprise you. If everything is predetermined and you have knowledge that your child will only love vanilla then you are responsible for they outcome if nothing else can occur: no strawberry, no rocky road and no free will

@johnjaso385 6 жыл бұрын

Poor teacher on predestination. Our will is in bondage. Your either a slave to righteousness or a slave to sin.

@MarkNOTW 5 жыл бұрын

John Jaso False

@mosesking2923 5 жыл бұрын

This is the heresy of Calvinism. Please repent of this heresy.

@codingwithgraceandtruth2456 5 жыл бұрын

Yes freedom is defined as doing the right thing which is slave to righteousness, in our free will we need to be slave to righteousness, which is responsibility

@codingwithgraceandtruth2456 5 жыл бұрын

Not poor teacher he is pretty good

@MJWife07 4 жыл бұрын

Actually what John is saying is true. We are not free. Read Romans 6.15-23!

@isq6672 8 жыл бұрын

Of course I have free will, I have no choice but to have it. Lol

@natedhudson 6 жыл бұрын

What are the 10 commandments for? He only sees the end from the beginning of what will happen to humanity. He for see what your current choices are going to lead to. This is Calvinist bull crap. If someone has kids when their are gay, what happened to the destiny of being gay.

@lassi372 6 жыл бұрын

Nathan Hudson how can you possible have kids if you're gay?

@sashunkjs 6 жыл бұрын

Nathan Hudson not sure what you're on about but, nevertheless you still chose to be gay. The only thing god is responsible for is creating a free willed creature who is capable of being evil if it so chooses. Evil is obviously the violation of his moral standard. So evil is only defined by the good god has shown us. To do evil without a standard of good is no different than doing something evil and calling it good thereby YOU become the basis that attests to it being good. And if WE set the standards than Hitler, Stalin , etc all did the right thing by slaughtering all those people. Because THEY believed they were doing good and WE (humans) are the only standard. And HUMANS differ on everything. Except we all can unite and realize God IS goodness and it's by him we have a standard to adhere to and HE justifies it. Because if people like hitler decide for themselves what is good and have no moral standard than murdering is good. It no longer becomes objective.

@holysex1052 6 жыл бұрын

@@lassi372 adoption, or getting a surrogate.

@holysex1052 6 жыл бұрын

@@sashunkjs if I made a robot and gave it free will but programmed it to ALWAYS walk in a straight line and placed it at the edge of a cliff and told it to turn back....is that free will if it LITERALLY can't turn back. So if humans have free will but most of us are already PREDESTINED to burn in hell then is that free will.