If It's Legal, It's Moral (Earthling Ed Vegan Debate) | Part 2

Part 2 of my reaction to "Libertarian REFUSES to have his freedom denied by vegan | Stanford University" by Earthling Ed.
Part 1: • A Confused Libertarian...
Earthling Ed's video
• Libertarian REFUSES to...
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[@ConnorStompanato]

im always so impressed with ed's patience and ability to articulate his points in such tight ways. if i had to talk to these people i think i would rage quit after about three minutes.

[@mancillado]

I actually think he comes across really smug and condescending, then he makes some comments like calling the guy pedantic that I think finish antagonising people. Ultimately most people aren't vegan because they don't want to be and logical arguments don't usually get you very far so in a way I'm not sure his activism is any more efficient than Freelee's 😕

[@LimeTreePrickly]

@@mancillado eds approach isn't perfect but putting it on the same level as freeles is quite a stretch.

[@mancillado]

@@LimeTreePrickly of course it’s a bit of hyperbole but I would argue that Freelee got a lot of people to go vegan even if it was just about getting a physique like hers. I think she actually played quite a big part in making veganism popular back in the day (I’m no fan of hers to be clear, but credit where credit is due)

[@LimeTreePrickly]

@@mancillado the same can be said about vegan gains and others. They may be able to make a specific type of person go vegan, just like ed does. And when it comes to well thought through arguments ed wins. Freelee made veganism known back in the day, but not in a positive way. When I talk with non vegans it happened a view times that they mentioned that "crazy banana woman" as a reason to be repelled just of the thought of becoming vegan. And I used to be one of those too.

[@goranbreskic4304]

@@mancillado Ed's comment sections always have people saying he convinced them to go vegan. He wouldn't convince you, because you don't like his style. That's normal. I fairly often dislike what others seem to like. (And I like to think I'm normal 😁)

[@_kikster]

I'm flabbergasted that he uses human intelligence and our ability to comprehend complex issues as a reason FOR eating animals instead of NOT eating animals since we have the ability to understand animal's cruelty and choose plant-based products - something that a wolve or other animals are not capable of

[@maxpayne69.]

@@MdoubleHBxx that last line ..... HOLY SHIT! LMFAO!! 🤡😂

[@pamelamason530]

@@maxpayne69. That account has been basically spam/troll commenting that for the past several videos :/

[@stephenward2743]

I honestly don't think the libertarian even knows his positions himself. It seemed clear that he hadn't run into this line of questioning before...we were all watching him rationalise his positions in real time while contradicting previous statements he had made or just conjuring entirely unrelated arguments

[@JeremyJenner]

Tbf to Jed it's pretty confronting having to organise your thoughts on the fly when you're being asked rapid fire leading questions (that were prepped in advance). Good on him for being a good sport and seeing the interview through peacefully unlike some of the other people Ed has interviewed.

[@goranbreskic4304]

I really appreciate all these students who come to debate. They understand he comes well prepared but they are still interested in discussing with him on camera.

[@godzilla2k26]

This is exactly like what Crowder does.

[@gazneregina5373]

@@godzilla2k26 Except Ed’s arguments are better, and he doesn’t skip something his opponent says just because he doesn’t know the answer.

[@godzilla2k26]

@@gazneregina5373 Looks like he skips in this video lol. Nothing wrong with imitating something so successful.

[@TheSimpleEnvironmentalist]

I JUST finished part 1 and was like nooooo and then 1 min later this was out haha. I also watched Ed's original video about a week ago and WOW how is he not exhausted?! Loved your take on this

[@LucyLarkspur]

@@MdoubleHBxx Girl what? Literally most people eat cooked food just fine lmao

[@TheSimpleEnvironmentalist]

@@MdoubleHBxx get out of here with that talk she is not ABUSING her children

[@TheSimpleEnvironmentalist]

@MdoubleHB leave me alone and go back to Freelee

[@mairzydoats4879]

I'm getting dizzy just listening to him go in circles.

[@namedesired]

I'm not a US citizen, I kind of feel offended.

[@blackrosenuk]

I love Ed's videos, patience, and listening skills. I equally enjoy your thoughtful, intelligent commentary. You are both great vegan advocates!

[@hugomarquez3189]

I understand why Ed didn’t bring up the point, but it is so obvious, and it demolishes all of his arguments. Human slavery, was legal, slave masters used all of his arguments, they said that slaves weren’t as intelligent, weren’t part of the social contract because they couldn’t be part….obviously slavery is not moral because it’s legal in a society. It is the most blatant example of why laws don’t make morality, why might does not make right, why the social contract is made by the victors and imposed on everyone else. It’s unfortunate because had his race been any other, the point would have been brought, but such are the times we live in. He looked like he could have had that conversation with no issues, but then the internet would have gone crazy.

[@Muslimah1987]

I was thinking the very same thing. If he employed his own arguments, he would still be in chains.

[@karlamarx5954]

I'm so glad you covered this. I watched the original and was so confused and frustrated!

[@jrh6707]

I watched Ed's video when it first came out and seeing this I knew it was all going to come down to the guy just not wanting to stop eating meat. Almost feels like a waste of time, but hopefully people watching it and this take into account all the great arguments for veganism even if this guy wasn't receptive. It's so incredibly frustrating though.

[@Keijiko]

Probably not a waste of time, even though it might seem like this guy will never stop eating meat, it could still have planted a little seed in his brain. And there are ofcourse people watching this video on youtube who might change their views because of it

[@jrh6707]

@@MdoubleHBxx you're a moron. Please find a registered dietitian.

[@johnnyboy6429]

@@MdoubleHBxx what an odd and secluded thing to say. Im sure her kids get all the nutrition they need.

[@jrh6707]

@MdoubleHB you're a nutcase. Go on believing what you believe, but don't expect reasonable people to adhere to your nonsense.

[@johnnyboy6429]

@@MdoubleHBxx there is no evidence to support that

[@zukodude487987]

Funny how he says we should focus more on people problems rather than animal problems when reducing animal products would lead to less global warming, chronic diseases and pandemics.

[@katrinathecatlady]

I wish this guy would just admit that he doesn’t think animals are equal to human. Like that is his argument and he is just side stepping it

[@vincevince2414]

I think he knows that but doesn’t have an answer why that fact would justify harming animals, so he tippytoe around

[@BOOFSIDEPINS]

Humans are animals. But yes, no animals are equal to humans.

[@Keijiko]

I think he said that several times actually

[@justroberto5052]

@@BOOFSIDEPINS and not all humans are equal either

[@FurryTailor]

Love that you're talking about Effective Altruism, great to see that in the vegan community, I cant afford much but I'm vegan and give 1% of my income to Animal Charity Evaluators top charities, proud to be a tiny part of the progress towards a better world for animals and humans alike

[@FurryTailor]

@@MdoubleHBxx sounds like it's you who's lost your mind my friend, just stop watching if you lost interest in her content, I like her and humans are adaptable to most diets, raw or not those kids are fine with this lovely person

[@ianos88]

It is very fortunate, what happened to Swayze. She was such a naive and innocent girl, when she was 100% raw vegan. But then she got a grip on herself, and now she relishes her life and loves her children, by feeding them cooked food.

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

She is a good student

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

Dear Swayze. Even after all these years and spreading so much great information about nutrition. You continue to help others. Thank you for reacting to your own book. It was a fun reaction video.

[@russianvegangirl]

I love listening both Ed's debates and your comments to them

[@mark7736]

I don't agree with this guys positions, but I don't really find them confusing. If you accept he doesn't really believe in moral systems, then think its mostly consistent. The dicussion is muddled because he keeps being asked about morals when he ie explicitly states that is not his way of thinking. Really I think the bigger issue is he probably doesn't believe this. The reality is if he did see someone stomping a a dog to death he would probably feel that is "wrong" and likely try to stop it. I think that is the problem with the debate format to change behavior. People end up saying what they have to say to "win" even if it gets into some pretty absurd territory. This guy doesn't care that deeply about animal suffering. That's pretty much what it boils down to and his true argument is "yea, I don't care". Working on helping people develop empathy for animals strikes me as a lot more useful (for average person) than trying to change their behavior through "facts and logic".

[@n-3262]

I loved this style of video and the philosophical debate they had along with your commentary

[@disneybunny45]

It's so nice to know that in this guy's mind, you can murder someone who is living out in the woods without being immoral.

[@acewingate6993]

Here’s my thing, a conversation like this could be avoided by someone admitting they don’t have all of their beliefs sorted and ready to articulate at all time. He’s just too prideful to say that. That goes for any discussion like this

[@NomadicIslanders]

Slavery was also legal.......sooooo... who is still thinking legality=moral at this point?

[@Unique9asswordfatigue]

Hey Swayze-love your vids! Interested in your opinion about animal adoption centers and high stipulations for prospective adoptees. I’ve been wanting to adopt a second bunny for some time now, but anecdotes from others have me reconsidering. Do you think adoption centers’ standards are to the detriment of the animals, or are they truly just a indication of my inadequacy as a bunny mom? Thanks so much!

[@jsavannah123]

Ed should teach classes on communication

[@Keijiko]

It seems to me like this guy's moral framework is social contract theory, so people live together in a society and construct the laws they want to abide by. Since those laws are constructed by the society, they are therefore right and moral. If you don't agree with the laws, you can try to change them with the means you have within the context of the law. So it's not like he would just accept discrimination or homophobia if this is the law, but he would be in favor of peacefully protesting the laws he does not agree with.

[@Darmok_onthe_ocean]

I hate to be the one to bring up slavery, but… this is the exact argument that people used to justify it.

[@Keijiko]

@@Darmok_onthe_ocean I know, and I definitely don't agree with this view. Just giving some context

[@BaristaWithADog]

Jed the robot doesn't seem to have a real organic opinion about anything if he can't fit a one-sized political philosophy around it. Like dude, listen to your heart - it's not that complicated.

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

He's experimenting with arguing.

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

@@MdoubleHBxx it's very fortunate, what happened to Swayze

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

@@MdoubleHBxx she's such a smart and nice person

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

@@MdoubleHBxx now she helps people eat ethically and healthily, and she cares for her children by feeding them cooked food

[@Hiiiiiiiiieeee]

My dog is fully a member of society. People know him, he goes to my salon with me, he has a full and active life. It makes me sad to think that there’s people like this man that don’t think his life holds any real value. To me, and many others, his life holds more value than many peoples. Like you said, serial killers and other awful terrible people shouldn’t rank higher than sentient creatures that just can’t speak English. People like this man think humans are so special just because we happen to be able to communicate with each other and we have thumbs. Every creature has something to teach us, if we’re willing to learn. ♥️

[@Hippogirle]

I always find those "what if" debates very strange, we don't know what would happen "if" we don't know what would wolves do ... what matters is the actual reality , what happens now, science.

[@happyhomebody1556]

Everyone knows what we should be saying/asking him, but everyone is too afraid to say it.

[@acewingate6993]

He speaks like he has to write a 10,000 word essay and could only come up with 7,000 and needs to add some filler phrases in

[@minakoa7178]

Affiliated with humans lmao

[@franklance9167]

The position would be that morality is a societal construct, so with respect to a society where even something like genocide is OK, genocide would be moral(or at least not immoral). With respect to a society where genocide is bad, it'd be bad. I am a subjectivist about morality in that I believe morality references a type of individual preference, so I don't agree with that formulation, but it is fine for them to have that standard. EDIT:Fine in that I consider their judgement about what morality is descriptively reasonable. It makes sense to think that morality is a social construction.

[@TriggerHappy923]

The apathy of humanity really shouldn’t surprise me.

[@B4StudioJP]

A sense of justice will slip out of an individual's mind, at that very moment, self-deception kicks in as a lubricant. "Might is right" even in hardcore sereal killers or psychopaths is, believe it or not, a sense of justice as if in the form of protein under denaturation. Surely its property has drastically changed, but protein is protein (in their eyes). The key to the rise of veganism, I think, is for us to be well versed in the physiology of such cat-and-mouse dynamics btw Right and Might (i.e. denatured right) which ebbs and flows in the ocean of human psyche collectively.

[@claireconover]

this guy the beige shirt, sounds like he’s never honestly thought about what he ACTUALLY believes…

[@hantingchen5497]

Id prob blabber some super dumb shit if being grilled on the spot but jesus im laughing so hard rn watching this man struggle

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

Same same same

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

At Jed's age, I thought being caught not knowing something or admitting that someone convinced you to change your mind were horrible things 🤯 180° from that now

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

@@MdoubleHBxx it's very fortunate what happened to Swayze

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

@@MdoubleHBxx she's such a nice and smart woman

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

@@MdoubleHBxx now she helps people eat ethically and healthily and takes care of her children by feeding them cooked food

[@merrymachiavelli2041]

13:41 on the 'Wildlife flourishing' point - the human population is probably going to peak this century, and we are still urbanising. That means less land will be needed for habitation as well as food production _unless_ meat consumption increases, given that calorie for calorie, meat requires much more land. Less demand on land means that rewilding and habitat restoration becomes more feasible. Even in the absence of any concerted government effort (and most governments _are_ committed to such things, at least on paper).

[@MrGeekUSA]

11:36 surely that's not Ed looking a tad annoyed as the guy ignores his point and changes the subject 😂

[@PercivalBlakeney]

2.59 Did Ed just ask if we deserve Valium? 🤨

[@gazneregina5373]

He said value lol

[@blehblehblehdracula]

Bro shutting down at the end was a good idea. My dude was… apathetic.

[@azeyabanks8909]

Everyone should work on their own ability of having high morals based on compassion. Govs get many things wrong. Govs would have him in a slave status a century ago.

[@meluvfriends]

This guy out here saying "but umm" more than Robin from himym

[@TheStarsAlly]

In a way, sentient AI is like an evolution of humans. We pass information onto them, make them in our likeness but also improve many aspects. They could become superior to us in a lot of ways. So his argument of humans being superior therefore other animals have little to no value, is very flawed. I don't think he would allow himself to be slaughtered for the pleasure of sentient and superior AI.

[@AprilJoi5]

Right, like just because abortion is legal doesn't make it moral/right. Governments shouldn't legislate morality. Respect and value for all life should be our main focus.

[@acewingate6993]

Libertarians are just people who like to hear themselves speak

[@nadialakeclement9475]

Yeah sorry dude you're not a libertarian... You're basically the opposite - you believe whatever the state says is correct. That's a statist - the opposite of a libertarian. Lol I hope he figures out his philosophies!

[@clarinetpride55]

Literally what my partner said when I showed him this video!

[@chubbatheBOSS]

Compartmentalized love is not love at all. That is just ego giving preferences to one group over another. It may be called pride or preference or even judgment (positive or negative), all of which comes from the ego, but it is not love. Family units in this world operate in this way. You can even call it business, but not love. Love and compassion is a universal state of mind and it applies to all beings. Some saints or enlightened people who experience God (love) are in this state, but most human beings are just operating in the realm of ego and calling that nonsense as love

[@laurynmayhew6280]

He said "as a biologist" and I thought ahh.. there it is. Hah! Obviously not all biologists think in this very black and white way, but in my experience a large portion biologists are rarely bothered by morals and ethics, rather they concern themselves with what is, and typically just accept that because that's how it's been and will always be. I'd be interested to see his response to the psychology and evolutionary purposes related to human empathy.

[@earthyvibrations11.11]

I feel like honesty the biology field is, if anything, expanding what we know about animal intelligence and consciousness. Not really a great argument I don’t think

[@abcefg4504]

Idk who needs to hear this, but just because it’s legal it doesn’t mean it’s moral. Examples: colonialism, homophobia, stealing, capitalism, patriarchy, etc. The US and other countries still have colonies and abuse them. We demand liberty, justice and reparations. Also fight for animal liberation. Animals are here with us not for us. May all living beings be free and happy.

[@robsengahay5614]

Is it me or is the essence of libertarianism ‘not my problem, dude,’

[@mairzydoats4879]

Veganism is the most "hands off" position.

[@PercivalBlakeney]

It's the ONLY position. 😔

[@SpiceGhouls]

Exactly, Ed is asking ‘why aren’t you vegan’ not ‘why aren’t you a vegan activist’

[@SpiceGhouls]

I wonder how many of the people that debate Ed end up changing their minds and going vegan later but just don’t want to admit they’re ‘wrong’ or changed their mind in front of the camera. I feel like a lot of the people he debates just don’t want their pride hurt and secretly go vegan later without admitting that Ed changed their mind.

[@meggylee8078]

This is how most (logic-based) conversion works. You bring up questions they cannot answer, and hope the conflict within their mind changes how they think over time.

[@tfromcleveland3741]

Dunking on college kids over a narrow topic helping? We need a good vegan on vegan debate to refine the arguments in a crucible of consensus.

[@mairzydoats4879]

A crucible consensus would solidify us as a cult.

[@KP-us5pq]

How what debating other vegans help the cause of veganism? Don’t we want to spread the message to people who aren’t aware rather than those who already know?

[@tfromcleveland3741]

@@KP-us5pq I believe that the more we explore our beliefs the stronger they become. I think questioning each other and deepening our own understanding is time better spent than by trying to confront others. This is not a subject you can logic your way out of with someone, it’s a process

[@tfromcleveland3741]

@@mairzydoats4879 a conversation in which we aren’t defending our beliefs allows us to let our guard down and explore new perspectives. I’d love to watch an animal-welfare vegan in a serious debate with an environmental vegan

[@mairzydoats4879]

@@tfromcleveland3741 I agree completely in the first sentence, but the second sentence and specifically the word "debate" commonly has "win or lose" connotations. Hashing out details and finer points, I am entirely supportive. Screaming "sophist" when we meet an impasse, I am not.

[@evanlouis8853]

I wrote a critical comment of you bothering to review Ed's video...and you deleted my comment. Pretty low class.

[@vincevince2414]

The argument of getting our shit together as humans before helping animals is so weak. What is this ultimate order ? When there will be no more diseases ? No more wars ? No more poverty ? Ultimately these things will always exist in one way or another and there will always be some sort of problem on our world, rather it is a new pandemic tomorrow or an intergalactic war in 10 000 years. So basically he’s saying to never help any animal causes because humans will never be a 100% perfect

[@godzilla2k26]

Speed and effectiveness is why our need trump's theirs.

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

@@godzilla2k26 The speed and effectiveness of many animals is vastly superior to that of any naked human so their needs trump ours? Any human majority can easily be faster and more effective than any minority so our needs trump theirs?

[@godzilla2k26]

@@ThingsYoudontwanttohear Easily point out 300 hundred Spartan comparison, not that your reply even touched on my comment. But you straw man away there champ.

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

@@godzilla2k26 How did I strawman you or your argument? Please explain.

[@TigerwomanXsweden]

You make no sense in certain parts. You're saying you believe in subjective morality but then you argue against it. Make up your mind.

[@davidformosa7626]

Of course wildlife would flourish if we abolished animal agriculture! This dude has serious issues!

[@KikiMeowKitty]

God people are out of their minds..

[@Adnilas]

The way Jed talks makes me want to kms.

[@brookebuffington3364]

This guy is a poor representation for libertarians, for sure

[@Cowz19999]

If it's legal, it's probably ethical. We can't just dismiss the reality that legality should and tends to follow the ethics of the society it applies to.

[@usenlim]

Is Ed becoming a transgender? He seems to use make up.

[@brookefencl4344]

That would imply that wearing makeup is something that only women can do. Makeup is worn by people of all genders who spend any amount of time in front of a camera because it often gives you a fresher/cleaner appearance and helps to hide blemishes. You don't have to alter your gender identity to utilize makeup as a resource.

[@godzilla2k26]

No it just means he likes to waste resources.

[@minakoa7178]

Who cares

[@benny.pepper]

make-up = transgender?? Elaborate your point.

[@goranbreskic4304]

Haha! Loads of men use make up. Has nothing to do with gender.

[@justinteehee4358]

Who's looking forward to Easter? 🙏✝️🥖🍷 In one week we'll all feast on ham 🐖🍖 and lamb! 🐑🥩 Jesus has risen from the grave! ✝️🌄🪦🦸‍♂️⛪

[@Cookiecat01]

Jesus is dead and will always be.

[@TriggerHappy923]

Jesus is dead. And so will be your religion pretty soon. 💚💚💚

[@QuinnyBob1]

Jed wanst to be the demons from The Promised Neverland

[@NeoGraphick]

The whole time I was thinking about The Promised Neverland. :D