IGN's Top 100 Game Developers: Games or Art?

Major developers debate the eternal question - are games art?

[@27Ganon]

There are a couple story-based games no one has mentioned yet that are really great examples of how video games are art (such as Ghost Trick and the Phoenix Wright series, if anyone has heard of them).

[@SamStancill]

"Are games art?- oh, man, who cares?"

[@2ndprodigy]

Remembering Argo (SOTC). That game was a piece of art.

[@laughingfurry]

@jess3336677 A good start would be to create a showreel. If you're using Windows, be it Vista or 7, you can go into the movie maker program that comes with it. Put your designs and animations into the timeline or storyboard, save as a movie file, then upload to KZbin. Another option is to put your concepts and designs on image hosting sites. You can also use gamemaker or other free/cheap programs. One thing you can also do is make small GIFs in gamemaker and use those in a showreel.

[@Lonelyeco]

Not so much. Final Fantasy X was the first video game I actually cried. Even though I was the main character Tidus, I felt a connection with him because I got to see his personality. I got to see what made him angry, cry, hurt, and who he cared for. I got to know every character even though Tidus was the main character. When Tidus left and how he did. I cried, I saw how him and Yuna cared for each other. And how everyone else cared for him.

[@ShayleeNilaya]

Are video games art? concidering that expression itself is art then the ability of expressing your whole world better that you could express it with any other kind of art such as singing,dancing,writting or drawingand etc, is definitely one of the most important kind of arts...it is one of the strongest ways to literally show people your world...to me it is from the most beautiful kind of arts...

[@laughingfurry]

@jayofthe400 I'm not saying Bioshock's story is stagnant. The plot around a submarine utopia descending into insanity is brilliant. The story with the little sisters has been done before, but the whole thing with atom differentiates Bioshock from other series who have used a similar plot hook. What make the story execution stagnant is that story direction is based on the cliche'd "do the right thing or the wrong thing", which would be extract or harvest. It was quite dissapointing.

[@CrazyHorseInvincible]

@xaviourable That's not necessarily true. What if you learned that the purpose of Dance Dance Revolution was actually to turn humans into puppets for the entertainment of onlookers? In that case it wouldn't be a container of art (the music) but actual art in itself, because the instructions and points system are designed to entice the player to move in a certain predefined way, in accordance with the vision of the artist; this makes it artistic in a way that's unique to the gameplay itself.

[@williamhelphinstine5019]

You know someone can go to the museum and look at each painting for 5-10 min. The person may have a moment or two of epiphany or even some form of communication with the creator. Stagnant art is to be respected but a good video game can absorb that person .... heart, body and soul ... FOR YEARS ... Which is the very reason that people make art.

[@muesk3]

One guy said Commercial art, I can agree with that. It's not art for the sake of art. In that sense it's not as pure. If you want to get technical, sure it's art, just not comparable to the high arts.

[@laughingfurry]

@n16pr As for your comment about Ebert, either you're getting things mixed up or you meant to reply to IronJackal.

[@human-connections]

david perry really inspires me....he's awesome!!

[@pmilleroly27]

Shigeru Miyamoto ability to inject the emotion of happiness in people with his game Super Mario Bro's is proof over 20 years ago that Gaming is Art. That game still remains one of the most artistic games in video game history. It's video games Citizen Kane. The Problem with this video is the original video game artist are from Japan and aren't featured in this video

[@widowhams]

MGS4, probably the most epic game ive ever played, some of the cinematics are outstanding aswell as the story that KICKED ASS

[@csmaster65]

James Bond - Nigthfire was good. But really, i agree with you.

[@laughingfurry]

@jayofthe400 Continuing... While Bioshock and games like it are great, I feel there is an oversaturation of games like that. Plus, I often see such games get noticed for the wrong reasons, what with people playing it as Devinci Code. Bioshock is a good proof of doing it right, since the player has scores of options on how to proceed through the game. It also has a great atmosphere. Atmosphere and gameplay options make it quite an artistic game. However, it's story execution is stagnant.

[@Keyspot]

I like the first guys response.

[@merccc1]

I agree. It is my all time favorite game.

[@Mazz1420]

Games that are art- BioShock Dragon Age Mass Effect Shadow of the Colosuss Ico Uncharted 2 LittleBigPlanet Metal Gear Solid 4

[@LemonlyGamer]

I love Tim's response: "Are games art, oh man... Who cares?"

[@HonorGuard117]

I really like this video... It presents to us the different yet all positive responses from different game producers on whether games are art. I believe BioShock is the best representation of games being art... That game is the true definition of aesthetics in gaming.

[@hussi434]

i cried when johnson died in halo 3.... not really but i still felt it

[@dnmph]

If you are looking to answer this question, then I pose the game Planescape: Torment as my defense that games certainly CAN BE art, if they are not every time.

[@theREALChadsexinton]

I agree with Tim Schafer

[@elspoko]

If you want to read a kick ass super soldier series, read Heinlins StarShip Troopers series or Bova's Orion series. You'll see what I mean.

[@Condeycon]

I can't agree more with the opinions made by these guys defending the idea of the video game as a valid medium for producing art. The problem lies in the content of the games, not the medium itself. We, the gaming audience need to mature a bit and demand games that are more intellectually and emotionally challenging; then we will have art in the video game medium

[@jak23ft]

1:34 EPIC chin cleft!

[@jess3336677]

i want to become an animator or art designer or something in the field of gaming i dont care what and its just so hard to get into..

[@orcasem]

Some games have defenitely been a very powerfull experience for me!

[@eatingfatty]

definitely, a lot of people disagree that it's an epic game but you have had to at least play mgs1(playstation) through snake eater to get a real appreciation for it loved the ending i don't care if it was an hour and a half i sat and watched the whole thing

[@elspoko]

And what's the fixation with games having to be on par with movies?? Games can go way beyond movies simply because YOU are the main character. There hasn't been a really epic where you really decide the outcome. Even Fallout had a handful of endings, and that was based on how good you did with certain things. Same as BioShock. Achievements=/=A good story. Remember, not all books are considered art, likewise movies and paintings. Only the really exceptional ones are.

[@laughingfurry]

@jayofthe400 I myself say movies and games are on even terms. The movie industry only seams horrible when you look at all the movie fads going on. Thankfully, there's still some decent stuff being made. Just that there's more ads that overhype the niche stuff. It's the same with games half the times. As for gaming storylines, there far too many fads currently going on, imo. Even with the gaming avant garde movement, there's more fads and aggression than actual art or games.

[@LethalAxis]

i cried when Gamma died in sonic adventure. GOD DAMNIT IT WAS SO FUCKIN SAD

[@Shenjin00]

Gaming is truly ART, and not the artsy fartsy bullcrap in museums(the red dot painting), instead its a media art in the same catagorie as movies and novels, i honestly have been moved by some exceptional storylines in gaming(halo1,uncharted,metal gear,KOTOR). its about fucking time that gaming starts to get respect, i hate the people who bash it for being mindless, violent and brain rotting. why must people bash the things they dont understand, truly ignorant people

[@Sronpop]

Books are art, Music is art, Paintings are art, yet combine the 3 and its not? Madness Play Bioshock and tell me that isnt art, go ahead i fucking dare you. A richly deep storyline that echos of philosophy set in an absolutely stunning setting. If that was made as a movie it would win a fucking oscar, movies are art, why the fuck arent games.

[@Dreamifism]

amen. thought processes scare me sometimes

[@eatingfatty]

MORE PLATFORMERS AND PUZZLE GAMES! Or am I the only one that thinks that? Because a lot of my friends really like FPS games... personally they aren't my thing. Give me something like LBP or Banjo Kazooie... i miss Banjo :( but anyways MORE PLATFORMERS!

[@laughingfurry]

@leetbh Oh, I see. Well, when I mentioned that I played Call of Duty, it was to say I don't expect some artistic masterpiece from every game. Besides, Call of Duty isn't as trendy as people think. It just appears so because of fanboys and how often it's mentioned. If anything, people have been bashing the series. Hell, I wasn't interested in the series until I wondered how bad some of the games can be. When I say trends in games, I mean elements that get ridiculous amounts of praise.

[@elspoko]

You haven't played many games then. Halo had a storyline akin to many NES gams. Hero falls on alien planet, hero kills aliens, hero saves the day. That's Halo.

[@widowhams]

cos if u think about it in the sense that an entire team is behind any one game, shakespeare and picasso, u kno did it on their own

[@AgentEntropos]

Ugh, what!? Skyrim is a pleasure to behold.

[@laughingfurry]

@markust1994 He disagrees, from what I heard. Although, I think he has the "video games aren't art, but contain art" mentality.

[@omgtkseth]

@mrcow94 yes, the 911 was the great piece of art in history, ha (stockhausen)

[@csmaster65]

I agree that the ending of fallout 3 is bad, but have i ever had that much fun playing a game?

[@laughingfurry]

@jayofthe400 I actually disagree, for the most part. See, any noob can make a game just like any noob can make a movie. However, just as a good quality game requires someone with smarts, the same applies to the movies. I will agree that there's been way too many of the same shit appearing in box offices, but there are high quality stuff that get's released either through streaming or DVD. The only reason such good movies don't get mentioned is because box office releases are often hyped up.

[@elspoko]

See, now you're talking. Not so much Zelda, but Shadow of the Colossus I whole heartedly agree with. Final Fantasy will never be considered the highest iteration of the game because it takes itself to seriously at times, making it more cliche than horror movies.

[@ArchaicMusics]

Whether games are art or not is a very dumb question, it would be like asking whether a canvas with paint on it is art or not; the answer is obviously no.Are games an artform?now there's a proper question! Games are an artform just as music, video and pictures is an artform,but that doesn't mean every game or canvas or piece of audio you experience is art,it means it can be,and of course it can be, you can't prove that statement wrong.Whether games are an artform or not is not important at all.

[@adix4]

todd howard looks like bryan in the movie dexter

[@elspoko]

The Beetles analogy is really a poor choice. And yes, everything can be simplified to it's base. What is Lord of the Rings? A few guys trying to destroy a ring. What is the Bible? A guide to bettering ones self. When does it become more? When the meanings of the books,movies, and paintings have a deep understanding of the human condition and has a deeper meaning than it's base category. Halo? Man kills aliens. Nothing deeper than that. He doesn't progress. Humans aren't like that in reality

[@merccc1]

This is obvious. Yes games are art. They contain massive amounts of visuals 3d, textures, animations. and they are interactive...

[@negativespace261]

@IronJackalTw Woah there buddy, last I checked if you play any games at all, or own and Xbox, PS3, Wii or a gaming PC like me, then you would know that indie developers are getting the most support ever. Counter Strike, Portal, Minecraft, Bulletstorm - games that were all made by much smaller companies but were then given the support of major companies to become huge successes (with the exception of Minecraft which is still owned by the original developers.) Think before you speak.

[@Lonelyeco]

Well you have different taste then me. Because I feel if I read those I wouldn't cry.

[@jayowens2d3dartist]

that was the most i cried when i was a kid

[@DrunkenPoetic]

Something being beautiful or ugly as nothing to do with whether or not it's art.

[@LuisLuigiB]

I say games are art. Certain people might not see them as art but they either don't play them or are in denial. I also think that people that make games should get more credit for what they do. Everyone knows who William Shakespeare is, who Piccaso is, who Mozart is. So why don't enough people know who Koji Kondo is or who Shigeru Miyamoto is. They know what they have created but not who they are. I think that is not right.

[@ghostboy07]

Gosh... Cliff looks like Chris Jerico O_O

[@lol101946]

i freaking cryed during this they feel like i do towards games

[@0Fear]

@xaviourable This isn't true. Games aren't simulations of experiences, they are experiences: some are simulations, others are completely made up. Art isn't just visual art as people commonly reduce, nor is it just musical art. Art is the result of an application of work in a medium, and reducing the artistic medium to the composite of its content is ignorant. If games don't qualify as art, then film or literature can't be art either.

[@jayofthe400]

@laughingfurry Not really, considering movies like the smurfs are coming out every single week while video games are making a good bioshock quality game every 2 weeks seems like the movie industry has given up entirely in terms of smart content that the videogame industry is going for. I would rather have videogames win a fight against the movie industry for whos most artistic just for the fact that you have to know what you are doing when making a videogame, while a movie can be made by a noob.

[@miked4904]

How is it Todd Howards fault when he isnt the one who actually drew out the design? Yeah its ultimately his call but hes not the one that CREATED all the Graphics.

[@jayofthe400]

@laughingfurry Wait... Bioshocks story execution is STAGNANT??????? What, just... what? I literally do not know what to say dude. no at all...

[@watertommyz]

In your subjective opinion Mr. Critic. Skyrim has improved over Oblivion's ugly, and I actually have the Art Book, and I can see the beauty in it. Just because it's not anime, and goes for realism doesn't make it ugly.

[@solidblood]

tim schaafer in the 1st 20 seconds wins this vid

[@laughingfurry]

@n16pr about bioware: I've seen and heard worse conspiracy theories. Him believing there's a conspiracy with bioware is alot more believable than what I hear half the time. about trolling: I doubt you know what trolling is. I'll simplify it as this. If he was trolling, he would still be making major movie references. There's a huge difference between trolling and not thinking. Clearly, he just isn't thinking.

[@laughingfurry]

@leetbh So I find Call of Duty's entertaining. It's not like it's the only game I play. I also play various RPGs, Adventure games, Puzzle games, and Racers. Hell, anyone who glance over my videos would easily mistaken me as just another fighting game fan. Just because someone enjoys Call of Duty doesn't mean anything in regards to this argument. You're a fool to think it matters.

[@HonorGuard117]

@Shenjin00 Was the 'artsy fartsy bullcrap in museums' really necessary? :S I agree with you wholeheartedly though. Games are just another form of entertainment, it's just that society hasn't fully accepted games because it's only been around for 20 years... The media play a huge factor as to why games are perceived as something bad for you, and it's incredible how the general public tend to listen to the media. These type of individuals are ignorant.

[@jimmyboyG485]

@IronJackalTw All your first post consists of is your opinion. Whether or not a game is fun, or interesting, or deep is in the eye of the beholder. You can't say "older games are more well-made" because you're stating your opinion as fact, which suggests you either have the world's largest ego or simply haven't considered that other people might have different opinions to you.

[@watertommyz]

I don't care for games so realistic that it's crossing over into uncanny valley territory. The style will always be more human, and approachable than something going for putting in as many blemishes and hair follicle as possible. A lack of quantity is not a lack of quality.

[@pulancorheio8754]

When is no ART no GAMES

[@elspoko]

I take it you've never seen BioShocks ending? because it was even worse than Fallouts. Mass effect was a terrible game + a convoluted storyline that's as original as Harry Potter. Half-Life 2 had superb dialogue and the overall game was good. But the basic plot is: Aliens come, hero kills aliens. We still don't even know what's going on with the rest of the story because they've yet to release the next chapter.

[@laughingfurry]

@IronJackalTw "What's so ARTistic on our FIRST Video Game or CHESS & similar GAMES? Do U know what they do at Brookhaven National Laboratory?" Just trying to decode the mess that is your response. That is what seams to be what you said. I don't know what's artistic about Chess and I was hoping you can clarify. -_- "Video Games R very much linked with WARFARE since its ORIGIN!" Not really. Video Games like Pong, Pole Position, and Klax had no linking with warfare. No more moot points plz.

[@elspoko]

Ah, there's the problem. There hasn't been a single game that has a serious storyline, good gameplay, and be all around fun to play. Some have come close but nothing on the level of even a mediocore book.

[@elspoko]

Have you beaten the game? The end is bad. If it was a book, it would be bad. Leaving such an ambiguous cliffhanger is bad storytelling. Remember, games are a media to tell stories.

[@jimmyboyG485]

@IronJackalTw Please, if you want to be taken seriously you're gonna have to stop with the conspiracy theories, and the whole word-capitalisation thing. Games have got better. Not only do the campaigns now have proper storylines and graphics, vastly improving immersion, multiplayer gameplay is far better than it was even 5 years ago. If you want small, original games, go look at the Indie Games section on the XBL Marketplace.

[@Dreamifism]

me too but damn. I feel quite strongly about it too. But you got to the point of crying? really? You know that means you better damn well be working on gettin into the industry right? tell me when ur first game's out for reals :) but seriously. and im working to get started myself, fyi

[@Sronpop]

Eh Bioshock, Mass Effect, Half-Life 2?

[@laughingfurry]

@IronJackalTw Once again, alot of moot points. Although, one thing stuck out to me. "Video Games R TECH that may or may not contain ART because it's born out of a Brookhaven National Lab!" Are you serious? So this whole thing with you is because of that, because you say only technicians, like at BNL, can make an artistic game? Wow. This is like arguing about animation with a weeaboo. Last I saw an "artistic game" made by your technician, it was utter crap. Don't like my opinion, too bad.

[@elspoko]

You guys have to remember, a good high end game takes gobs of money. A good book can be written on $5 worth of paper and 2 pencils. So in the end, you get some dipshit corporate guy "tweeking" stuff to suite a more consumer friendly product. Right now, that's all games are: products. That aren't made for the sake of being made.

[@johnnyandthepnuemoni]

wow i love all this faux intellectual coffee shop debate shit going on in the comments, get over yourselves life is art, anything can be art, if an artist in Europe can take a urinal place it upside down and write his name on it and call it art( and get it nationally recognized as genius) its safe to say games can be art. i'd like to see alot of you guys make it to where they have, that takes skill and imagination, two qualities artists cant possibly have.... right?

[@elspoko]

You have to understand that Halo, as a whole, is a 40+ year plot line. You can buy any so so sci-fi from the Vietnam era and they'll mostly be the same. The problem I have with games is what you first mentioned. Even though you are the main character, you really don't feel a connection with the character. Again I'll use Lord of the Rings. When Frodo was stung, you really felt bad because you thought he died. In games, you're just annoyed that you died without really caring.

[@killerferret411]

Look at MGS4. If you can't say that's art you can't say tear jeaking movies are art. Of course games are art.

[@jimmyboyG485]

@IronJackalTw Anybody who sees CoD as anything other than an easy game for pwning n00bz is not a hardcore gamer. It's the most generic, unskilled FPS in history. Listing games from years ago does not make you pro, in fact I think you've lost touch with newer games as nolgastia blinds you and you reminisce on the games of your past.

[@hsapin]

ssbb is art.

[@laughingfurry]

@IronJackalTw Sure thing, dante. Sure thing. Aren't you ever tired of being wrong?

[@Dreamifism]

you're using the wrong side of your brain here. i hope to see the industry be accepted as art by ppl's right brains. then we'll probably be truly accepted

[@Juwellz18]

Wow porn is considered art? Thats fucked up....

[@laughingfurry]

@n16pr Actually, he isn't a troll. He's just an immature brat who's pushing his opinions upon others. That's why I blocked him from my videos months ago. If I can't stand Sarah Palin, I won't stand Jackal. You are right about something, which is discussing this with other people. IronJackal is too narrowminded to have any decent conversation with.

[@laughingfurry]

@jayofthe400 IronJackalTw is just simple minded. Best to just ignore him.

[@watertommyz]

Skyrim improved Elder Scrolls aesthetics by quite a bit. If you don't think that game looks good, you have poor eyesight.

[@oakleyklj]

art.

[@laughingfurry]

@IronJackalTw You're constantly assuming the worse. The overuse of emoticons, even in your latest comment, show an unstable state of emotion. You're constant aggression against those you see as an opposition. You exhibit the idea that it is you against the world. You have a dark and narrow viewpoint. You try to find anything that helps your "case", despite how irrelevant it is. Oddly, you are like DMC5's Dante in many aspects. Perhaps, you should try to actually read and use less angst.

[@extremeloco23]

games are way better than most paintings that make people "wow" at fancy parties , if they think video games are things for 10 year olds that are just a distraction then well we are all 10 year olds and they can be arrogant reatrded non open mined people

[@elspoko]

Games aren't generally considered art because alot of them really don't have any story. And when they do, it's cliche. A good example is the new Metal Gear. The story was terrible. Any B movie would have better dialogue and more in depth characters. Gaming studios rarely have good writers that come up with a convincing plot and dialogue that goes farther than "I'm a bad ass, and I say bad ass punchlines".

[@eatingfatty]

but at the same time i really do enjoy a good story in a game :) MASS EFFECT 2!!! YES!!! And MGS4... best movie ever xD jk jk

[@DNesij]

Is basketball sport? stupid questions...

[@Mazz1420]

@IronJackalTw someone doesnt have any freinds O.O

[@laughingfurry]

@jayofthe400 He's just an idiot who's trying to push his narrow viewpoint onto others. It would be like trying to argue with Roger Ebert or Sarah Palin. Although, both Ebert and Palin show alot more intelligence than Jackal. I myself do some videos on this subject an am curious what your take is on my opinions, so you're welcome to comment on my videos. Regardless if you do or don't, you should still try not to both with Jackal. He's obviously not too bright.

[@Archmage9078]

@IronJackalTw Why don't you try better then?

[@laughingfurry]

@IronJackalTw Wow. You're bashing the artsy fartsy, yet you mentioned Halo 2, which actually classifies as "artsy fartsy" by many. If you were really against "artsy fartsy invading the games", you would only be praising platformers. You're also saying how video games are inferior to movies. Nice way to jump ship, dante. Then again, this is further proof that you don't know what you're talking about. By the way, fads are what's killing the gaming industry.

[@DerpyGuitarman]

Not on consoles. And Skyrim does look shit compared to recent games or PC games.