Judas Interview: How Ken Levine Is Building on BioShock With 'Narrative LEGOs'

Renowned designer Ken Levine invited IGN's Ryan McCaffrey and The Game Awards creator Geoff Keighley to Ghost Story Games in Boston, where we spent six hours playing a recent build of his new narrative-driven single-player first-person shooter Judas, followed by a lengthy conversation with the award-winning game designer to discuss the long wait since BioShock Infinite, bringing the "narrative LEGOs" concept to life in Judas, what the game is all about, and much more. You can watch the entire interview in the video above, but before you do, we figured you might want to know a little bit about Judas first. So we'll share the basics, without spoiling anything: Judas is a first-person narrative-driven shooter that, from a moment-to-moment gameplay perspective, will feel familiar to BioShock fans. You have a gun in your right hand and various organic powers on your left hand.
Story-wise, you play as Judas, a young woman aboard the Mayflower, a city-sized spaceship on a multi-generational mission to save humanity by transporting what's left of it from Earth to a new planet, called Proxima Centauri. You start the game having been reprinted (yes, meaning you were dead), where you'll wake up and begin interacting with the holographic projections of the three leaders who run the ship: Tom, the ship's head of security who wants to protect all of humanity by ensuring that the Mayflower's original mission stays on course; Nefertiti, the ship's Nobel Prize-winning doctor who wants to create a civilization of full robots with no human flaws; and Hope, who wants your help deleting herself because the existential crisis of her existence leads her to the conclusion that deletion is the only way to end her suffering. Further complicating matters is that the three of them are a family: Tom and Nefertiti were married, and Hope was their adopted daughter. It's up to you to side with whomever you feel like, but whatever choice you make has consequences. Doing a favor for Tom might piss off Hope and/or Nefertiti, and vice versa.
This constant push and pull is at the heart of Judas's player-driven narrative, and it means that no two playthroughs are ever likely to be the same. That's the "narrative LEGOs" in action, and what we talk a lot about in the course of the interview. Enjoy!
#IGN

[@Facebag201]

You can tell how excited Ken is that he's able to discuss some of these plot details after years. This is definitely a buy for me.

[@chrismueller7635]

Not only for you.

[@pythonxz]

@@chrismueller7635 Wrong! It's all mine.

[@vegaa.1645]

🐓🍭

[@adamk-paxlogan7330]

Fr me too 🤣

[@thegameawards]

Really enjoyed this chat with Ken and Ryan -- Geoff

[@artvandelay123]

Legends ❤

[@testing85]

geoff the goat

[@naoseioq1234]

Thanks Dynga

[@Onyyyxx]

Yooooo Geoff

[@costanzafaust]

Do you dream of Electric Sheep?

[@xXkashmoney99Xx]

These kinds of games will always be an instant buy for me! Passionate creator who understands games and what gamers want and wanting to push boundaries is so rare nowadays so it’s fantastic to see there are game still being produced like this.

[@mcsick007]

agreed

[@dsimpson530]

There are inverses to this. Peter Molyneux comes to mind.

[@stefandinu6389]

Remember callisto protocol? It was supposed to be a dead space spiritual successor and look how that turned out. Best wait for reviews.

[@xaby996]

​@@stefandinu6389and the melee combat still looks like "hit the anywhere" oblivion style attacks

[@8AndaHalfPeppers]

Find the complaints about this "just being like Bioshock" as silly. It's a continuation of the philosophies and ideals that Irrational have adhered to since System Shock 2 over 25 years ago. Do we criticise From Software for just iterating on top of a similair gameplay structure? No, we don't.

[@kaiholeung903]

Keep mentioning bioshock is also annoying me, Can we just consider this is a new game?😂 I bet this game will be better than Bioshock and Bioshock is a 10/10 for me🫡

[@jonesy6354]

They've reskinned Demon's souls more times than games Ken has released in his full career.

[@stuckintheinbetween]

These people act like Bioshock-esque games are releasing every year like Call of Duty or Madden when we haven't had a Bioshock game in over 10 years and the last game that wasn't Bioshock but was like it was released 7 years ago (Prey 2017).

[@jimmythegamer2231]

What's even sillier about those complaints is that the game isn't even gonna be exactly the same as BioShock anyways. It's gonna be highly replayable and have a very non-linear narrative, way more than any of the BioShock games. Besides it's not like BioShock style games are a dime a dozen, they're pretty rare.

[@seanifer12]

@@kaiholeung903 it’s definitely a new thing but it’s aesthetic is unmistakably bioshock lol

[@ddust102]

Glad they are still making games like this

[@homelander2243]

Give it another 5 years. Wait till my generation takes all dev spots 😂

[@thekal2851]

True, dude. Wish we could play these games often without waiting so long. Looking forward to playing Judas!

[@adamk-paxlogan7330]

Fr

[@adamk-paxlogan7330]

​@@thekal2851same

[@adamk-paxlogan7330]

​@@homelander2243lol 😂

[@adderblack39]

It occurred to me how important Ken Levine is to games.. especially in today's current climate

[@root0062]

If Ken's sitting down you know its worth a listen.

[@nilspochat8665]

especially xhile he's wearing an XCOM shirt

[@mur02004]

There been this narrative for the last 2 decades that AAA games should play like movies. To me that fundamentally undermines the strength of video games, and computer science in general, which is their ability to simulate reality and give players a sense of choice. I'm so glad Ken is capitalizing on this strength and bringing this sense of choice and simulation back into AAA gaming.

[@mistrdevine]

Ken Levine looks a little like Steve Carrell.

[@pedjanedeljkovic7021]

Nah, more likely Steve Carrell looks like Ken Levine.

[@kokomanation]

It is the same person but works in 2 different brands

[@Jay-uv5xg]

hes the jewish version lol

[@_johnreaper]

He looks like Peter Jacobson. Its uncanny.

[@adamk-paxlogan7330]

Fr 😂

[@ryanwinkler7996]

Shout out for the XCOM shirt

[@tylerblaylock1860]

love how excited ken gets while discussing details of his game he has spent years making. truly a work of passion

[@josephcalamia5586]

I'm really like how Ken explained the dynamic between the three characters and the intriguing world that players will get to explore when Judas is released. Can't wait to see more!

[@infiniterift]

To everybody who works or worked on this game: THANKS! You're awesome!

[@shorafarahani]

lol there are more "worked" than "works" ... but thank you for kind words

[@TempleofShaolin]

One of my most anticipated games

[@RARufus]

Ken and Irrational have such an excellent track record. Nothing is perfect, but they make great games with cool settings, great visuals, memorable characters and stories, etc.

[@Ganderlow]

People forgot we have 16 Final Fantasy games and complain when a director makes a project similar to his past work like BioShock.

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

It’s like complaining about xeno franchise or Mistwalker games

[@Gametism]

A true mastermind. The experience of Infinite still grips me to this day

[@jaysantos3283]

Been a fan of Ken Levines work since the original Bioshock

[@stonefish1318]

Bioshock was a Masterpiece, Bioshock 2 pure Art and Bioshock Infinite Impressive!

[@Asian_Import]

Ken Levine is a living legend. Bioshock is my favorite series of all time, Burial at Sea is tied with Witcher 3: Blood and Wine for best DLC ever released. So happy he’s finally back with a new game!

[@SproloquiTv]

Too bad we dont get a bioshock 4

[@taigaaisaka6305]

Dude, how in God's name do you have one of the best written DLC with Blood and Wine and right next to it one so awfully made that it killed its franchise? Genuine question. The quality of them are literal polar opposites.

[@Asian_Import]

@@SproloquiTv A new BioShock game is in development by 2K and Cloud Chamber! Confirmed back in 2019, we should get some news within the next year or two. There were reports that development has been rocky though…

[@DishonoredSkull]

@@taigaaisaka6305 Agreed, BAS was not needed at all and hurt the series more than anything.

[@DoubleDHarvey]

@@taigaaisaka6305’killing the franchise’ and ending the franchise are two entirely different things. And I’ve never got the complaint BAS is badly written, it’s basically the same quality as the rest of the games

[@user-vd9pf6pu3o]

Ken levine is a true artist. Look at the passion and excitement in his face and voice as he speaks about the game. This is my most hyped game and kev levine is one of my favorite artists ever.

[@PayneSculptures]

IGN - you guys need to adjust the audio level discrepancy and re-upload this video. For example the difference in volume at 11min 28sec between the Kevin Levine interview and the gameplay video is so loud you could have blown out speakers, headphones and hurt ear drums. Please fix this.

[@BoomSlang001]

Great jumpscare

[@evr9428]

Exactly. Who tf did the editing for this??

[@HeyMyNameIs...]

i'm 100% certain if you are a creator and you are working with someone like Ken Levine that changes many things during development. It can be extremely tough. Especially if you don't have a certainty that the game will be finished in it's original concept. Ken Levine's brain is a dark souls boss.

[@thefearofg0ds758]

I've always felt like Ken Levine is the James Cameron of the gaming industry. He tends to only release something once a generation but when he does...it's something special. The same perfectionist obsession that gives him a bad reputation as difficult to work with. Bioshock would be his T2. Infinite would be his Avatar. Critically beloved but fans are split.

[@amandakucsera]

My favorite part of the world building in Bioshock games were the audio diaries…I was really hoping those would come back!

[@Onyyyxx]

Judas is going to be spectacular. Ken has passion for stories and his characters!

[@samichmachine]

can someone pls fix the volume balance. the clips from the game are SO loud

[@Sir-DavidJames]

The enemy design and guns have that side of the road gift shop toy design and I'm here for it.

[@pythonxz]

Bioshock was the only game I've played for 24 hours straight. It sounds like Judas is going to have very interesting immersive sim elements.

[@lalotime]

If you are in a rush, you can beat the game in 6 hours. Normally it's around 10 if you explore everything.

[@roksitzenfrei]

Judas and clockwork revolution are most anticipated games to date but will be waiting for a while take your time

[@tropicvibe]

Always loved the Bioshock series, playing them numerous times. Then buying the remastered versions to do it all over again.

[@clerk-555]

It's super cool hearing Ken Levine speak about creatvity

[@gdim925]

Lavine is freaking amazing. His games are the definition of art!

[@yup8865]

Sweeet, looking forward to it! The focus on writing characters with care is such a big brain move. Ken's unique world building and atmosphere always demand my attention.

[@Cakauu]

Huuuuuge respect for Mr. Levine! Can’t wait to play Judas!

[@sillkthashocker]

Take a shot everytime Geoff interrupts Ken

[@mrplayfulshade1038]

"We wont spoil how you get around" *Shows big robot puppo with a cockpit* HMMMMM

[@grcigar9911]

Paralleling professional sports, fan access to the athletes is almost just as important as the actual events they compete in. The video game industry has an opportunity to increase engagement with the creatives themselves instead of focusing primarily on the finished product. Job well done and looking forward to more such interviews in the future. As for Judas, looks awesome 👏

[@thinktribal]

Alright, having the Vectrex displaying Judas was pretty cool in the background

[@willhahn1730]

Such a treat to have these 3 together. Also, awesome office, Ken! Very nice!

[@seanforbes3937]

Bioshock and Infinite are both in my all time top 5. Cannot wait

[@tobiascobarrubias1662]

Long time no see, Kevin Levine. Glad to have you back!

[@CHA0SBLEEDS]

Is Eldin Ring Just Dark Souls. Is Balder's Gate 3 just Divinity Original Sin? Sure you can see the Bioshock DNA in the game he's making, but he's using his past experience to make possibly his best "Bioshock" game yet without being confined to the Bioshock name.

[@Dennis-nc3vw]

This looks amazing. In an era of endless Disney remakes its easy to think art is dead, and be things like this give me hope.

[@gtaatmiami]

This is really interesting and innovative. It could single handedly save single player gaming in the future. Much like how you buy a new Lego set after you finish the last one, they can release new “Lego sets” built on the same architecture.

[@CCowleyMedia]

Hmmm, feel like when Ken and Geoff are in the interview it's always been a great time. Can't wait for the next world from this team. Thanks for all the fantastic games! Thanks Ryan, Ken, and Geoff!

[@Eclipsed972]

Can’t wait to play this!

[@GhostofFamagusta]

Ken is one of the last dying breed of game developers that actually value a single player experience over multiplayer, what a gem he is

[@zanfear]

Been waiting for this interview - and this NEW GAME - for over 10 years now.

[@ULTIMATEPATCHES]

Love the VECTREX with "Judas" on the screen!

[@musicxxa6678]

Sounds great. This interview made me so hyped.

[@Dada228822]

Ken is in Infinity War Tony Stark cosplay.

[@scottdacosta8195]

If you didn’t already know but just hearing Ken talk you just know he’s a bona fide Genius

[@Sophiern]

Man is a genius. Can't wait for Judas 🤟

[@daveycress]

Very, very cool. Thanks to both parties on bringing this to the world!

[@TheAbysswalker]

Ryan McCaffrey is the beating heart of IGN, as far as I'm concerned.

[@nathangabrielmusician]

Oh man having Ken Levine talk about this deep stuff, has me so excited where the future of gaming can draw from! :D

[@GhostRider-un9gm]

😊 I'm glad Ken is arround creating these beautiful things 😊

[@Skiad-OpsGash]

If you can't wait, play Prey (2017) if you haven't. It's really underappreciated.

[@GameTalesHQ]

This just became one of my most anticipated titles of all time. Super excited to see what they've been cooking up!

[@L_A_C_K_I_N_G]

Levine is damn great. Hope he develops games forever.

[@mopar426power]

So damn hype for this game. Bioshock is one of my favorite franchises.

[@JoryStultz1234]

Imagine Levine and Kojima collaborating. 🤯

[@MicahMode]

So incredibly excited for this game. Hoping for its success and that Ken can keep pumping them out for another 30 years.

[@p00pie]

This is just a brilliant setting and premise for a game.

[@Gwilherm]

The Alexa bit terrified me, lmao!

[@ashtondillard6906]

The irony that people are calling it Bioshock when the story and setting sound far more similar to system shock…

[@Gamerinthehive]

Great interview Ryan / Geoff

[@dougdeveloper8850]

The best video games aren't just something fun to play but also about ideas and emotions. The Bioshock series was fun but it was also about its themes and ideas. Likewise, Silent Hill 2 is considered the best because it is a powerful emotional story.

[@AliEbadi-99]

Cant wait 🔥

[@Thedrewshow559]

I’m so pumped on this game

[@Rastapopoulos2939]

Best thing in in this video: Ken Levines shirt. And what Keely( or whatever is name is) is doing in the video is the largest enigma.

[@QuiGonJam]

Oh man the cuts to gameplay audio is so loud 😭 Scared the crud out of me.

[@JoseMonkeys]

51:39 the future is now old man!

[@nukers1234]

Really look forward to this game

[@RyanPaquette]

So awesome to hear from Ken Levine the David Duchovny of the video game world! Big fan of this guy and his games! Can’t wait for “Judas!”

[@kingshadow8782]

Amazing!

[@thedarkroom6416]

Yes

[@voxploxx]

Playing this game completely blind sounds amazing

[@NikkoKnight703]

Definitely getting this

[@LeroyMustang]

Steve Carell, the greatest western game designer of the century.

[@amossss]

Holy shi Ive been waiting 20 years for this. My favorite game of all time and favorite game creator is back baby!!!!!!

[@Mondo-fr2lh]

Cool Xcom shirt!!

[@StonkyBunny]

Eagerly awaits for JUDAS: Collector's Edition: inc. Horsedroid'springy'figurine!

[@TheCatsBrigade]

I'm so excited! Can't wait for it to come out : )

[@shimstank8689]

LFG BABY KENS BACK

[@seanifer12]

Really love this guys passion. You can really feel how excited he is for people to experience the game. Loved the bioshock games and can’t wait for this!

[@paradigm2841]

You wanna bet Ryan was fed up with Geoff after that?

[@rober95rd]

Siri making her appearance was an epic moment😂

[@somedude1324]

A bigger budget Void Bastards. Looks great!

[@Crazyq454]

this was announced in 2022!? its weird that I'm just now hearing about the game now in 2024

[@catzilla1616]

Let's go!!!

[@PachuStrauss]

Geoff, please, YOU NEED TO STOP INTERRUPTING PEOPLE.

[@sillkthashocker]

YES

[@401RISaint]

4-5 hr main story. Game focused with multiple play throughs.

[@Zero-Sun]

holy moly those gameplay clips were loud 😂

[@bplus2932]

cant wait!

[@urmie]

Ken Levine game, instant purchase of the super deluxe collector or whatever edition. Take my money!

[@haplo_]

Heavy Sean Murray No Man's Sky energy.

[@RareCandyTCG]

I'm excited for this but the one thing that keeps bugging me is how all of the particle effects have that same Unreal Engine 3 look from over a decade ago.

[@kaba1996]

Can't wait for Messiah oh gaming Ken Levine

[@ssplif5415]

Lisan al Gaib

[@pimp_floyd5024]

The Mahdi of video games

[@awgoodrich8]

Warning! LOTS of spoilers in the video