Ignition Timing...How Much And Why

There are too many factors to list when it comes to determining optimum ignition timing for any individual engine combination, but there are some relationships that remain constant and common to all. Here's the big one.

[@rloewen11]

As a high school teacher, I'm always amazed at how you make fairly complex subjects understandable (even to me). Good on you Tony!

[@pauldenick1830]

Love that story about Big Daddy DG! Very practical info about tuning that nobody talks about. Keep em coming UT and UK.

[@Talal_alshammri.]

He made this video just to escape from body work for (6:02) minutes. Good one Uncle Tony 😂😂😂

[@TEN-TIMES-HARDER]

yeah but youtube got weird, now they stop showing your popular videos if you dont pump out consistant videos, even if nobody likes them, they start sharing your old videos again lmao, i find myself deleting a lot of videos after, just trying to hang in there lmao if a 9$ an hour kid with a scanner is stealing our jobs, guess its time to teach the secrets lmao

[@unicornsteaks6769]

WOW That bird was really happy for most of this video.

[@fostercathead]

Dear Lord! I was about to ask whether or not it was in the same room with him! Love the video, though.

[@easygoing2479]

I was wondering if instead Uncle Kathy had hit Uncle Tony over the head just before the video.

[@thehappytexan]

This explains the 400 sbc I had in high school always liked more timing than all the 350’s. At the track, she loved 100 octane and 42 degrees of timing. The 350’s pinged on 42 degrees even with 100 octane. On the street it was 36 for a 350, and 38 for my 400. I loved that engine. Put it to the wood and let it eat!

[@stanpotter7764]

If everybody in the country knew as much about their profession as UT does, our roads would be pot hole free, bread would never go stale, and cancer would be cured. This guy is amazing.

[@HammerHeadGarage]

Rumour was at 50 degrees the slingshot was cackling so hard the crew didn't want to go near it. lmao. LEGEND.

[@cactuscanuck6802]

Great info Uncle! As a licensed gas fitter, the relationship between flame front distance traveled, flame velocity and differences in fuel combustion and engine aspiration makes perfect sense!

[@busterworley8418]

I recently bought a 69 chevelle. Tony has helped me remember all I forgot and taught me things I didn’t know. Thanks Tony.

[@bertamusprime618]

Another out standing video and perfect timing (Pun intended). I have been messing with the timing on my car and this video helped to clear some items and questions up. Keep up the great work!

[@lewhanna6112]

I have never heard anyone explain that so well. My 71 10:1 440 liked 46 degrees of total timing. I ran 11.70 on 28 inch slicks, 13.10 on street tires.

[@needmetal3221]

That's strong

[@lewhanna6112]

Need metal, it was so much fun. 71 charger I worked my butt off to own. Life got in the way of keeping it. I miss that car. Right after I sold it, classic Mopars went way up in price.

[@needmetal3221]

@@lewhanna6112 that's happened to many of us.

[@stanglincoln1659]

I remember back in the day you were the first one tell people where to set their timing on a 5.0 Mustang

[@mattbauckman9907]

This is an explanation that I’ve never heard before but makes total sense. Thanks Tony.

[@55hemidodge]

Your explanation of things like this is absolutely incredible! You just told me why the 225 slant six in my 62 Lancer runs at its best at about 25 degrees Advance on the timing. I always knew she ran better that way but I never fully understood why until you just explained it in detail. Thank you Uncle Tony!

[@The_R-n-I_Guy]

You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge. I learn something from just about every video. Thanks again

[@tropicalstormstephen2891]

Every video makes me smile on your channel. I have been in love with classic cars since I was a lil lad and my pop and I don't really see eye to eye on interests... I love the man but I have only few influences in my life that actually appreciate the beauty that comes with great American auto engineering! I can only imagine what it must've been like back in the late 60s and early 70s driving by the dealerships.... I wouldave given anything to go back to that era to learn and understand why they did it this wounderful way... The only way I can do meaningful research is through experiencing my own mechanical obsticals with my father's old cj5, and with helpful content like yours. I look forward to seeing what you have to share with us next and I admire your respect, understanding and passion for this culture. Thankyou! 🤘

[@drrrrockzo]

That is a really interesting take on timing...I've never thought about it that way. Thanks for another informative video!

[@transfixleo]

On the chance someone is still thinking, OK but WHY does a larger bore require more timing, let me offer an illustration that may help. Visualize the air/fuel mixture as a bunch of dominoes. It takes X amount of time, measured in degrees of rotation, for them to all fall. Now, imagine a larger bore. It will take that many more dominoes and therefore, more time for them to fall.

[@zmanphx]

Also where the plug is located center vs side.

[@littlered6780]

I like the explanation "it was entirely based on the real estate the flame front had to cover... Dominoes are good but flame front/real estate is magnifico.. :))

[@samhicks97]

That analogy is very good, was able to visualize the Air/Fuel being burned.

[@amirhoseinkargar3733]

I never feel regret watching your videos and allways teaches me something new. Thanx tony

[@420gzuz]

This is the video that I needed to watch and YOU are the man who needed to teach me my lesson today in spark timing. Makes perfect sense but I never thought of it this way before. Awesome.

[@SilentGamer-jt8dl]

I just want to say thank you for all videos, you do a great job at explaining things and i have learnt a lot just by watching

[@bladeslicemaster5390]

Thank you for that explanation. I am trying to adjust the mallory unilite timing curve for my AMC 401 with a 4.165" bore. I've never done it before and am starting from scratch. This video helps a lot!

[@stevemiller5355]

Thank you Uncle Tony for the endless knowledge and videos. You help keep me sane during these difficult times 🙏 bless you sir

[@larryr8492]

Thanks, spent 25 years in CDPJ Dealerships and still picking up useful tips. My project, 1995 Dakota, 5.9 Magnum swap in (formerly 3.9 I couldn’t break) with Megasquirt and LS coils. Feel the pain of no Mopar parts, the next gen Dakota supported well but not so much mine. MAKING EVERYTHING.

[@greggb1416]

“Theory” video, I like that term. Your 5-6min., short concise too the point explanation(s) are great...! Thank you sir.

[@01trsmar]

Great info...Awesome explanation!!! I used to drive around adjusting the timing and where the car had more seat of the pants feel,that's where it stayed! This was when I was a teen but still works today!! I like doing bodywork!! The rustier and more bashed the better!!! Seriously,I restored hundreds of Mopar's..bodywork relaxes me!! Especially when I have to hammer on it!!

[@robertschreiber8099]

I'd be there, on the other side of the car!

[@db7069]

Very interesting, I’ve always looked it as 3 legged stool. chamber, compression and cam. Did consider the fourth leg. This is as helpful as you article from the mid 80s of how to lap your valves while sitting on the toilet. I’ve been a fan a long time. 😀

[@user-up8sn1xv7k]

The Birds are fabulous, you are full of great information also. Thanks Tony

[@jimbolove5669]

dude, your audio quality is so good, I thought there was a bird in my living room, I hit pause and chirps stoped, hit play and heard rest of the chirps, haha that was a freaking awesome surprise to me it was.

[@jameslewis1175]

New to the channel man but so far love the common sense ur putting out there man. Thanks

[@oantech4252]

Great video.. Makes a lot of sense. Rule of Thumb..... Advance the timing until it pings under load and back it off from that spot for optimum... 454 Chevy dials in at around 37 degrees. 👌

[@moderateextremist7344]

You explain things very well UT.

[@wheels-n-tires1846]

Best explanation ever... Was trying to explain timing relationships to the kids a while back, but made it 800 times more complicated than it needed to be lol... Now Ill just tell em "watch Uncle Tony"....👍😂

[@colemanadamson5943]

Great explanation of advance timing. Really well done.

[@The_Future_isnt_so_Bright]

Awesome video as always. I noticed on KZbin that there is no 'good' videos explaining Oversquare, Undersquare, and Square bore to stroke ratios and how this can effect power output, and why engine designers went with the specs they chose. Recall in one of the slant six videos you briefly talking about this. Its a topic that hasn't been covered in english here on KZbin.

[@eddiehuff7366]

Thanx again Tony. That makes sense to me when you say things like flame front.

[@SketchysGarage]

Don is one of the most passionate people about his craft I ever had the privilege of taking too.

[@matthewcromwell1969]

I remember watching Don tell that story in am interview. Great story thank you for explaining it like you did.

[@frankjames5515]

Excellent straight-forward presentation.

[@TorontoModifiedKarKlub]

That was excellent. Much to learn. I never learned this much in school.

[@jamestankersley6901]

Thanks Uncle Tony, you are appreciated!

[@edwardfoehring8827]

Awsome Tony, always wondered why on timing and nitro . Bore size thank you so much not many people could answere that.

[@darykoughton5473]

Great video very informative!

[@MartinPerez-ew9pk]

Great information, I haven't heard or watched a video like this on KZbin.

[@kevkilian]

Such a simple concept that I didn't understand until now. I feel like an idiot, but now I understand. Thanks UT

[@oldguyhobbies4627]

That was sooooo informative and to the point. Thank you for the information! I'm new to the channel and will watch your other videos but what was also interesting was the story of the 426. If you haven't already shared that in a different video, it would be interesting to hear how you came about the information.

[@ruszko726]

I have an hei on my sbf, I took out the springs on the weight so I get full advance, MAN TONY YOU WERE RIGHT, VERY VERY SNAPPY LOW END, it's running a little lean, about mid 13's Afr when I stomp on it at about 4-6k, but I just gotta get some smaer metering rods, and bigger jegs. Thank you Uncle Tony

[@ThunderHead289]

Key phrase “all else being equal” between 3 engines of 3 different bore sizes. 👍 Good luck with the body work. can’t blame you - hate it also! And it shows

[@jaredfarney675]

😲🤩🤘🏻😎

[@mikealexander4166]

Nice job explaining. I’ve seen that DG interview, awesome story.

[@320Racer]

Thanks for another great video UTG!!! enjoyed it as always!

[@peterplouf2836]

"Real Estate" by piston diameter, is a squared function. What this means is that a small change in piston diameter makes a much bigger difference in piston real estate size. This was a very useful video. FYI. this video combined with another one where you explain how you want your fuel explosion to finish pushing the piston before BDC, goes a long way to understanding how an efficient engine works.

[@mikiejr111]

Brought my 66'IMPALA SS ZZ502/600HP..5SPD,3:42 to numerous mechanics that TOLD me they were the best in the business,car was always tuned like a sleeping baby,I just did a tune and advanced timing and my God did this car WAKE up,,Holy Moly,my base timing is 22°,took a while to figure out,thought 22 was to much,but the engine runs best at this setting,idles at 900,nice grunt,responds perfectly on the road,lots of fun

[@billynoland7778]

Thanks Tony. Have fun with the body work.

[@chuckfischer7202]

Can see the relationship. Better understanding now. Thanks.

[@todddennehy804]

Trying to teach my guys when to use a vac gauge. This will clarify for them. Thanks for explaining ported vs manifold.

[@yobentley7274]

I kind of get it. Thank you for the continuing education.

[@shempuhorn8261]

Wow. Very useful info. Will help with timing starting points

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

This was one of those Voodoo things about engines that I just took at face value with no explanation from the guys I learned to turn wrenches from. I just learned something new today.

[@ProjectFairmont]

Top notch info Uncle Tony!

[@bradyhicks1381]

Thanks UT and UK another great story and lesson. Crank the mag Big Daddy sent it. Take it or break it ✌

[@Freedomquest08]

If you don't like bodywork now, just wait until they ring up your paint at the cash register. The nothing special paint on my last paint job was around $1,100. From that point on, I've learned to love patina.

[@snoopy5736]

Junk

[@Freedomquest08]

@@snoopy5736 To each their own. Live the life you can afford.

[@dh2360]

I use to dread auto body work also but eventually it became the one thing I'm best at on classic cars. That is the great thing about the old car hobby, so many different lines of work go into one car that if you at least focus on one thing and master it then it becomes enjoyable. Hopefully, it's eventually not a lost art as most my friends focus on video games and not anything else.

[@shanerodrigue6920]

Thanks for the info .always educational.

[@barefootbandit1]

Awesome information mate thank you

[@dbarkley1053]

I been waiting for you to cover this. So glad you did. If the 318 would want about 32*-33* total timing, what roughly would be initial and how much vacuum advance would you want your vacuum to add? My vacuum can has 17*.

[@matthewhubler4219]

Great info! Keep it up.

[@novaguy8419]

Thanks for the tip tony. I wish I could come out there and make your life easier and give you a hand on that body work. But I know you will get it.

[@100amps]

Great lesson. Thanks UT.

[@stevenbongiorno9277]

Thanks! I’ve been working on Chevy 350s, and I just put a bunch of money in my personal one. I talked to a buddy who races , asking about how much timing I should run. I’m running 32, but he says I can run 34. I know it ain’t much, but I’m running on a budget and can’t afford to blow her up. I’ve finally got a great set of ported heart shaped chamber heads on her. I’m guessing I’m running about 9.7 compression with I would consider great flow from intake to exhaust. Everything is port matched, and trust me , they’re is no restriction on either part. I run a modified 3310. I mean the throttle shafts are thinned down, the main body has been polished. I’ve jetted up to compensate. I’ve geared the car from a 3:08 to a 3:75. I’ve got a set of racing headers on her, to a free flowing exhaust. I know it’ll make more power, but what kinda initial timing should I look at?

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

IMO, you'l likely feel a power loss once you get past optimum. From "optimum", I'd turn it back a hair (that's the way I roll). Be careful though, might not have much warning as when things heat up, clearances become tighter, pistons heat up, oil film breaks down and aluminum melts. The question at some point becomes "Is the risk of roasting something worth going for more".

[@cudatali]

Crazy that you picked this topic. I had spent my last two evenings researching the main factor to determine optimal total timing. Thanks Tony. Btw I’ve always loved that story about Garlits. Question I’ve also read that the less efficient the combustion chamber the more timing needed? Not something I want to totally believe knowing that Garlits story. Can you shed light on that theory?

[@woogiespeed4472]

Great video and love the cardinal in the background lol

[@justinwright6611]

I just learnt a heap and extremely well explained.

[@Daniel-Weaver]

Love the use of heap. As in ,you boys are in a heap o trouble now. And it's splained, not ex splained.👍Lucy I'm home!

[@remington351]

Great explanation. I'd really like an Uncle Tony vid walking us through the procedure to set initial and total advance timing demonstrated on project daily driver. The other uthube videos are using new age programmable timing lights and iphone apps. I'm sure UT can show us how it's done with a 30 year old timing bulb and a dwell meter. Reply to this post with a thumbs up and maybe UT will see the interest from the viewers and make a vid for us.

[@pittsky]

Great info as always.

[@keithcalitri840]

Good stuff UT keep it coming.

[@hawiianpwr]

Great video!

[@Firebird400]

Nice video tony , I need to adjust the timing on my can now 🙄. Been messing with it a bit but it’s definitely not optimized. Need to get the carburetor sorted out then move to timing I guess

[@campbellpaul]

Thanks, Tony, for a long time I thought it was little men from the old Autolite commercials that did it.

[@phillippearce9680]

Very informative!👍

[@kphedges707]

Great video

[@carguy3028]

I just got a 72 GMC painted and I did a lot of the body work, I think you like it as much as I do.

[@mostlymoparih5682]

Good stuff Unk.

[@caddydaddy6728]

Love it unk keep it up more info👍👍

[@billmcbillface7467]

And this is why I keep coming back to UTG. I almost always find the simplest answer to whatever question is in my head. As far as bodywork goes? The best home gamer body/paint guys always hate it.

[@LunarOutlawsGarage]

I really enjoy bodywork it’s right there within building engines 🤙

[@johnwilburn]

They are two entirely different worlds.

[@NebukedNezzer]

good information. thanks.

[@UnityMotorSportsGarage]

Good stuff! Garlits had his money cut on a match race. And that is what pushed him to try and blow it up!

[@davenorman8251]

More wise words from Uncle Tony...It is all about flame propagation within the cylinder...bore size,fuel type even piston crown and spark plug location are considerations and then cylinder volume at the time of fire affects the air/fuel mix etc...fun isn't it.

[@jamest.5001]

Chamber shape, compression ratio, bore, stroke! And engine speed/ operating range! AND FUEL! Temperature maybe?

[@immikeurnot]

Yep, temperature, too. BTDT. Car would ping if I sat and idled it too long, but after babying it for a minute, the fresh air would cool the air filter and housing off enough that I could get into it. In retrospect, I should have probably just backed it off a degree, but I wanted every last horse.

[@marcstlaurent3719]

Great info with the bore size

[@gregorytimmons4777]

There are a few things that affect it to some degree. The position of the spark plug for one. I have learned this because my 1976 Moto Guzzi motorcycle has Hemi heads but the spark plug is not in the optimal location because the valve size is big enough that the electrode is moved down from the center of the chamber to where there is room between the valves as you move away from the exact center which is also where the 2 valves are closest edge to edge.

[@brucebreedlove7743]

Hey Uncle Tony!! I too really get bummed at the prospect of doing the bodywork....I FEEL YA BRUTHA !! I find great joy in engine building. My specialty is Chevy Small Block Stokers. It's not a stretch to get 455 hp. and 425 torque these days out of a N.A. 383. But yeah....the body work....THE BODYWORK!! .....URGH!!!... 😆

[@johnstadelman4022]

I really love your videos. Your LunarOutlaw's Garage buddy says he "really enjoys bodywork". Maybe he can be of some assistance.

[@UncleRoots413]

Thank you again sir.

[@samuelortiz105]

I hope we get to see some bodywork videos from you Uncle Tony.

[@jusztinnemeti6380]

Things I learned from UTG:. Every old car has rust. It's just a matter of how much that matters. Do your research or you will get rolled by a car flipper. Gasoline isn't as dangerous as we thought, but must still be respected And yes, people still smoke cigarettes.

[@richardcranium5839]

one thing you omitted was rpm. the higher the rpm the less time the flame front has to rebound and cause detonation. we're talking miliseconds but when factors are known it can be calculated. id love to hear your thoughts on this.

[@MegaMarclar]

So by total timing, do you mean while the weights are completely advanced..? And do you use vacuum from a venturi to pull it more advanced, or use vac to pull timing when at high vacuum levels?

[@ericheine2414]

How much real estate does the flame front have to cover. In another way are you saying it is because of the larger volume you need a larger advance in timing because of the burn rate? You're totally on point today Tony. Rock on.

[@foot675]

Koodo. Good information!.

[@Minervagunsmithingllc]

Would a mild cam, ported and milled heads at 10.1 compression affect you timing degrees?