6 Watch Steel Comparison! Seiko Citizen Casio San Martin Timex and Grand Seiko

In this video I compare the steel finishing on 6 watches. A Seiko, Timex, Citizen, Casio, San Martin and a Grand Seiko! The results will definitely surprise you!
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You may have noticed that I often don't mention the original brands that watches I am reviewing pay homage to. This is very intentional and not meant to offend you or the original brands. I lost my first channel in October 2020 which I had spent 9 months growing and invested a significant amount of money in simply because I had mentioned the original brands in some of my videos. There are people who try to use KZbins lack of understanding when it comes to the difference between homage watches and fake watches to attack other channels and their owners and sadly I fell foul of this in 2020. This channel was also attacked recently and KZbin deleted content simply because I had said 'subby homage' and 'Rolex homage' in two videos despite the watches in the videos being perfectly legal homage watches. Please understand that I can not afford to risk my channel so I will no longer be mentioning other brands when reviewing homage watches.
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Gary
I Like Watches

[@watchalot919]

The steel finishing on my three San Martin watches is better than my Tudor BB36

[@ilikewatches]

That doesn't surprise me...they are using tin plates which is what Grand Seiko uses.

[@watchalot919]

@@AndySmith4501 It's a form of brushing/polishing that Grand Seiko use, I believe

[@ilikewatches]

GS calls it zaratsu polishing. It’s a lapping machine with a tin plate. Not sand paper or a different abrasive bit tin plates which brings steel to an incredible shine but also allows you to make the divide between the brushing and polishing so crisp because there is no give in the tin plates so you don’t get any overlapping or transfer of one type of finishing to the other.

[@MarkM58]

@@ilikewatches Casio calls it Zaratsu polishing, too.

[@bryanryan4504]

Also please check the side of case hidden by the end link on most bracelet watches that are not well done, that area is the most egregious. Finishing is often left undone or just a slab of not well done polish almost like an afterthought

[@michaelkaliski7651]

I think this just goes to show that the finishing on cheaper watches has improved by leaps and bounds while the expensive models have just rested on their laurels.

[@clifforddean232]

San Martin always punching above its weight class, love the quality control and attention to detail. 10 years from now and they'll corner the market within their industry.

[@nintendokings]

Fantastic video! One thing I would’ve added was sharpness of edges. I have a GS and a San Martin, and in some areas: yes the SM matches the GS (or even seems crisper). But when you run your finger over the edge: the SM can be rather sharp on some transitions! Especially talking about the bracelet and under the case which touches the skin. Whereas the GS is always super comfortable. It’s one area where SM does cut corners. Super duper crisp transitions isn’t always desirable when it leads to sharp edges. The seiko transition was shocking btw! And the GS transition somewhat underwhelming.

[@MrKrekkie]

There are people advising to use very fine sandpaper for the sharp edges under the case and bracelet. That will solve it and will upgrade the watch.

[@nintendokings]

@@MrKrekkie Its risky though, and most will botch the transitions. But yes, if it's too sharp I would also grab sandpaper

[@tdugong]

Kinda surprised the Grand Seiko didn't beat all the other watches like a drum.

[@ilikewatches]

Me too!

[@TheReasonableSkepticist]

Wonder if the finish quality drops with quartz watches.

[@joelrussell]

It's still a $3-grand watch. No excuse. @@TheReasonableSkepticist

[@garylangford6755]

In 2024 San Martin>Seiko that's why

[@SingleTrackMined]

San Martin punching way above their weight. GS very disappointing. Excellent video. Thanks for the hard work, it was worth it.

[@dennischen8887]

I have a grand Seiko spring drive and have said it before and I’ll say it again. Aside for the exceptional dial, the case finishing and the bracelet is really sub par especially for the price point. My marine master 300 has better polishing and it’s a “standard” seiko. Ordered my first San Martin and I’m excited to compare the quality.

[@daveLin104]

How does the martin compare ?

[@dennischen8887]

@@daveLin104 hey sorry for the late reply. Actually I ended up with a sugess hulk because I wanted the bezel color to be closer to that of the Rolex than the San Martin. From the sources I have gathered, the quality of the sugess is on par with the San Martin so I’ll chime in on the comparison between that and the grand seiko, as well as Rolex, Tudor, and Omega watches. For a $250 price tag, you will be blown away at the quality especially the finishing and bracelet quality. However, in micro shots it won’t be quite on par with the entry level luxury pieces as finishing will not be as smooth and even throughout. and there will be minor fitment issues between the lugs and bracelet as well as minor play in the bezel action, at least on mine. However, the sugess did manage a +1 second a day, better than my Tudor and Speedmaster. All in all, it was well worth it for sub $300, but if it was $500 or more, I'd say it won't be worth it. But I would also say that the grand seiko is not 10x better and a Rolex hulk is definitely not 80x better than the sugess or a San Martin given the current market value.

[@daveLin104]

@@dennischen8887 great thanks so much for the detailed reply 🙂

[@pdmotors5027]

Impressed with the SM, amazing...

[@nikc1313]

I have 2 San martins including the same one in this video. Probably the best finished watches in my collection. Incredibly crisp transitions, great polishing and brushing and zero QC issues.

[@ilikewatches]

Great to hear!

[@e_d_v_a_u_s]

I don't think I've heard anything negative about San Martin among any of the watch reviewers I've seen. I'm going to have to get one for myself.

[@thegamingbegginers5777]

So this video perfectly summaries that High price doesn't necessarily mean higher quality. And I'm one of those guys who spends his money very carefully and i do care about the price u pay= the finishing u get. I don't have that kinda money where u can say " I bought this patek cause i can, i don't care about the finishing all i care is its a patek". Videos like this are very essential to people like me cause this video really made me think" GS costs more than 10X that of SM but does it Provide 10X better finishing", i think it all comes down to brand Name or brand value, history and all that. And personally i don't really like where these big Horological brands are heading.

[@ilikewatches]

Fantastic comment!

[@MosheFeder]

I know it's just the second week of the year, but I think I'm safe in saying that this will prove to be one of the most usefully instructive watch videos we'll get in 2024. You obviously took pains to get this right and your effort was rewarded. Well done, sir!

[@ilikewatches]

Thank you…yes it was a little more work than the average video but worth it for sure

[@KMV007]

This is an amazing idea and execution of a video, it’s my favourite I watched on this channel ever. Regarding the results, all these companies (except SM) are huge and could definitely finish their watches better, but they choose not to. Disappointed to see Seiko so bad, but it’s the same standard as their movement accuracy and quality control. With all this being said, people still buy them even at the ridiculously high prices we have seen in the past few years. The days of the SKX and SARB033 price/quality ratio are long gone.

[@ilikewatches]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@DocHoliday444]

Honestly, this really made me appreciate my San Martin Sn0129 even more:) Fantastic comparison, thanks a lot!

[@ilikewatches]

lol….i bet it did!

[@trogpo]

Brilliant comparison! I guess nobody expected some of these comparisons. Thank you very much, Gary. Again -- just brilliant!

[@ilikewatches]

My pleasure and thanks for watching!

[@allenmontrasio8962]

This is very interesting, really puts into objective focus the quality of finishing that can escape the naked eye

[@SunsetSheen]

If San Martin can deliver this kind of quality now imagine what they'll be putting out in 2 or 3 years. Compared to their releases from just a couple years ago they've made incredible leaps in quality.

[@michaelquinn9447]

Excellent work Gary, unbelievable shots 👍

[@apparaoapparao]

The Citizen is very impressive, especially considering its case shape.

[@ilikewatches]

I agree, it’s been well finished for sure!

[@JanKowalski-rd7yb]

These are some REALLY good macro shots there. San Martin continues to amaze me. They may be one of the most expensive Aliexpress brands, but their prices are still laughably low, considering the quality of their manufacturing and finishing. I mean any other of presented brands would demand a lot more money for a watch of the same quality.

[@ilikewatches]

Totally agree!

[@ccr6042]

For the Grand Seiko (or any high end priced watches), I think that the tiniest place should be perfect, there's always one moment you will see it. If approximation is understandable for less than 100 dollars watches, it isn't over 1000...

[@Kriistofor]

very useful review mate, that san martin is surprising me more and more to the point that i am seriously considering trying one just for the value and the attention to details

[@andreiprioteasa3193]

Great stuff Gary, quickly became my fav channel! ❤

[@robbbbery]

Eye opening! This is a fantastic video, very useful!

[@WaterJake]

Great topic for a video to go with the reviews! Hope to see more detailed comparisons like this in the future. Thanks for all the vids over the last year!

[@ilikewatches]

My pleasure and thanks for your continued support!

[@gabrielscheer255]

Sublime review as always. Stunning shots. Thank you and Happy New Year

[@chrisp.5272]

I really want to see a Steeldive 1953 thrown into this mix. Seriously impressive, if you can get past the odd name, and logo. That Citizen 365 is one of my grail watches, love Citizen Group, Miyota, Eco-Drive, Bulova, ect. I'd have one by now but I just bought a Vero Workhorse, and SW-Q.

[@WatchFocus8800]

Great video, nice comparison, that Grand Seiko came through at the end.

[@simonwright6882]

I think in general the more affordable brands have upped the quality of components and Finnishing. I was amazed at a pagani Daytona i got at Christmas and it only cost £36🤯

[@Spurdospaerde692]

I quite like the Finnishing of watchmakers like Aarni or Rönkkö...

[@adk7962]

Thanks for the great comparison (I didn’t think it was long at all). All this did for me is reinforce how great San Martin Watches are. Thanks!

[@cosmodoc]

Very useful video, Gary!

[@kamelthorn]

Very interesting and informative video 👍🏻

[@TomasWatchReviews]

love videos like this!! Thank you

[@edwardsjohnpaul]

I'm not appreciating a value judgment on the different finishes. How or why is one "good" versus another? Maybe that's exactly how the differences are designed to be? When does "fine" become "too fine"? The "line" demarcation between the brushed and polished finish... yeah, is there a way that's supposed to look, or is it just an aesthetic? Does it indicate better or worse tooling, or is it a factor of price, or time? I think a deeper technical explanation, including what the desired effect is compared to what we're seeing, would help me understand the differences more. Great macro comparison, but I'd really like to know more. Thanks for this video!

[@ilikewatches]

I thought I explained it fairly well but if not then I do apologise…polished surfaces should show flat and smooth reflections and be free from imperfections. Brushing can be light or coarse but should be consistent all over and where the brushing meets the polishing there should be a clean crisp line. It gets increasingly difficult the most crisp you want it which is why watches known for their finishing usually have that crisp line where the finishing meets.

[@murph8411]

@@ilikewatchesyou’re only going to get flat reflections from a flat surface though so if the polished surface is curved the reflection won’t be perfectly flat

[@asiantimepieces]

This comparison videos are gold 👌🏼👌🏼

[@UnholiestJedi]

This is a great concept for a video. Like you said, maybe the youtube watch reviews community arent comparing finishes between watches. Really appreciate your take & especially the macro comparisons.

[@jimfiore4671]

This is probably the best comparison video of different levels on KZbin. You should do the same but do the dials and movements of them. Obviously you'll be exhibition case backs. But that would be a pretty sweet comparison too. Thanks for the very cool video. God bless

[@shanephillips8735]

I'm surpised the finishing is better on the SM over the GS, good work SM! Awesome macro once again Gary 😎🤙

[@ilikewatches]

You and me both!

[@sylvainb.coternbsc.n4896]

What a neat idea, Gary. I learn a lot with all your posts. You're a scholar in popular horology. Keep having these really fascinating topics for all of us. Thank you ! Happy New Year 2024 !

[@ilikewatches]

Thank you! Appreciate it

[@s76motiongfx68]

Awesome comparison.. thanks for your time!

[@ilikewatches]

Thanks for watching

[@lihanou]

Great video. This is good, original content, much more informative than all the recycled stuff from all the other channels.

[@ilikewatches]

Thanks, glad you liked it!

[@mikesheehan5946]

Nice video. Pretty useful info

[@rickhoevenaars7833]

Great job with this video, it was very informative. I own four San Martins, including the model you featured in this review. The finishing on each of them is as good or better than the finishing on my other eight watches, all of which were significantly more expensive than the San Martins. Even more impressive is that the dials are also just as good and they keep great time. It seems the only way to justify the purchase of a more expensive Swiss watch over the SM is for the prestige. Admittedly, I’ve been guilty of that from time to time.

[@ilikewatches]

Agreed

[@watchalot919]

I agree with that. The finishing, spec, and bracelets are fantastic. I would like to see them start using better movements though

[@MrBacchus18]

Prestige and generally speaking the movements are better.

[@watchalot919]

@@MrBacchus18 Agree. The one area SM can improve on is the movements

[@jaroslavklos6189]

Thank you for this video. SM watches really are nicely done.

[@rickseconds7676]

Of my many watches, the best finish I observed is that on my Waldhoff Seawolf.

[@mitchelldoughty7241]

That was great, really enjoyed it, very informative. I am really surprised by Grand Seiko. You would think for that amount of money, they would pay more attention to the polishing than they did. Love the grand canyon on the Timex. And was quite pleasantly surprised by how well that Timex did. 🤔👍🙂

[@mr.s9399]

Love the finishing on the Citizen and the San Martin 😍

[@MichaelG1986]

San Martin's finishing is really excellent for the price point. One thing they need to focus on now is the sharpness of some of the edges where the watch case and bracelet meet the wrist. If they can soften those edges in a quality, controlled way, they would take their finishing to the next level.

[@twitchyjambo]

Great video Gary,some surprises there 🤔👍

[@ilikewatches]

Thanks

[@dmks2146]

very interesting video. I'm a sucker for perfect symmetry when it comes to cases and I guess that is a challenge when polishing comes into play. None of my SMs are perfect in that regard. There's always some fractional difference from one lug or chamfered edge to another. My SARB is perfectly symmetrical but I doubt that there has been a lot of handcrafting.

[@TheFrankm3]

Really interesting thanks

[@Theflyguy522]

San Martin really are a good bang for buck watch aren’t they! 😳👍

[@user-kp1es7to6z]

I agreed with most people. The San Martin watches are superbly finished. High quality. I am looking forward to originality design from San Martin. Well done San Martin ❤

[@brianmsahin]

Have to watch this later ! Time for dinner . Looks very interesting as always Gary .👍

[@ilikewatches]

Enjoy Brian (your dinner!)

[@fredochinaski9968]

Just picked UP thé momentum Magnum P.I, so goooôooooooood, and thé finishing so great....

[@philspencelayh5464]

Interesting video. Seems to me that San Martin should be the 1st stop when looking for a watch but I don't have one, lack of originality and too many nh35s outweigh the finishing for me but I'll keep looking.

[@daveindevon5240]

Completely agree. I feel the same way about SM watches. Would it kill them to use the NH38 on no-date designs? On wrist, the differences in finishing are not so apparent, and that's how I look at my watches. Overall design, dial and hands, are far more important to me. I do like the look of some of SM's latest releases though. Just wish they weren't all GMTs!

[@jay_watch]

Interesting video. Honestly something that always has interested me but never stumbled upon a KZbin video on the subject 👍

[@ilikewatches]

Glad it helped! Did you sub because there’s more videos like this coming soon!

[@jay_watch]

@@ilikewatches I sure did 😉

[@ilikewatches]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@WMIYC]

Nice job on a fresh take. It feels like sometimes others interject a preconceived notion of finishing on watches. With all do respect to Grand Seiko, I think stretch on how to make their watches interest a wider audience - beyond the finishing reputation.

[@chongshaohong2969]

Very instructive video! Are you going to review the Tissot PRX in this style? I've heard good things about the case and bracelet finishing, and I would love if you took your macro lens to it to have a look.

[@SuperMooMooFarm]

I was shocked at the quality of my San Martin SN0103 compared to my Swiss pieces, some of which cost upwards of $4k. The better Swiss pieces I have are still better finished with superior movements, but I wouldn't mind paying double or even triple for a "premium" San Martin that competes with the mid-range Swiss class of watches in the $4-6k range.

[@jacc88888]

Great video and macros. Very interesting to see these side by side. I must say the brushing on the Timex did look pretty poor. San Martin, as they often do, win in the bang for buck category in my book.

[@robworthington7431]

Really interesting Gary, thanks. San Martin et al - design elements aside - really have made us question the value in higher end watches.

[@ilikewatches]

100% they have!

[@laurencehogg6010]

Thanks, that was really interesting, and pretty much unique - Ive not seen anything similar on youtube. Please sir, can we have some more? 😊

[@ilikewatches]

More……MORE! Sure no problem

[@Wenxinlovesyuri]

Great video! Would love to watch a comparison with bigger brands like Rolex and Omega :)

[@alexkishkovich7806]

Really enjoyed this video and have to admit - a little unexpected results. If you can (have access to, maybe through your subscribers) to make a similar video but with luxury brands, that would be something! And compare them to San Martin! LOL Thank you for your incredible work!

[@DoubleD42]

Excellent video, thank you for this 👍🔥 Edit: Cant like the video twice for some reason

[@grahamliggat7193]

G really interesting content and most definitive about the quality of the applied indices (suspect the hands finishing might show something similar too). Was surprised that the GS wasn’t more distinguished on the other aspects in this company as you hear so much about them - but I have never yet held one! Hoping an airport transit in 2024 fixes that! V best G P.s. where’s that 25k watch review - I need a laugh?!

[@ilikewatches]

Working on it now!

[@StephenMorganCanada]

The timer should do a blend line as GS often does. Up close, it doesn’t look great but on the wrist it’s actually beautiful.

[@MrEtonmess]

Interesting. I know it Takes longer but macro shots are no common on the affordable watch reviews and are nice to see.

[@dougnemeth5249]

Great video…

[@PheasantPluckersMate]

Awesome job, Gary - really appreciate your efforts and a surprising similarity between the qualities of finishing. I really did expect a lot more from GS…

[@MyRetroWatches]

Nice comparison Gary! Most of this is down to grit size and application. My engineering brain still can’t call some brushed finish as brushed as it’s more ground than that. The tooling is so important and if they are brushing before polishing or after. Machinery plays a confidant roll in the accuracy of the finish. If you are using abrasive papers or cloth back products on linishing machines you get non linear finish as the grain is so random. If there is flex in the material it can round corners or over brush which is what I think has happened on that Seiko. Looks like it was polished first and brushed after. The Timex looked to be sunburst finish and that is really a lapping operation so it’s being pushed against a metal plate. You will get nice sharp edges as a result but it looks like they used P60 grit or something 😂 Superb to see a comparison like this so thanks for your efforts.

[@ilikewatches]

He Mike, glad you enjoyed it! Great feedback too, your knowledge is invaluable for the community!

[@apparaoapparao]

Ha!! Definitely looks like P60, and applied by somebody with muscles.

[@HORIZONTIMEPASSIONEOROLOGI]

Like San Martin .. I'm about to buy one 😀

[@BennyLlama]

Great video. It was interesting, informative, and even a little depressing (Grand Seiko) lol. I hope we will get to see this video replicated for some titanium watches.

[@ilikewatches]

Good idea!

[@spgk6470]

Great video as always Gary! The results from the grand seiko are pretty unacceptable for the price in my opinion. Also the brashing on that timex is beyond ruff.

[@samwang5831]

Great comparison! I hope the management of these companies use this video to drive their craftsmen to do a better job.

[@hrs.ai2018]

This comparison is useful , make it more 👍 Timex cracking edge result from low-grade material. They also no bother to smooth the edge, those might be sharp and uncomfortable to touch Those no clear line transition like oceanus , grand-seiko probably come from hand-made finish, not using machine.

[@ilikewatches]

I will! Thank you

[@MrBacchus18]

How about breaking out the Credor? I like comparison videos like this and yes from handling a lot of watches I'd say finishing does vary quite a lot even within the same brand and price point. Luxury brands do seem more consistent certainly but oftentimes not head and shoulders above affordable watches when it comes to steel finishing at least.

[@Sirleopard666]

Citizen rules! 💪 .. Also considering you can have better quality finishing in their titanium watches at very competitive budget

[@thegorn]

Ah Seiko - how the mighty have fallen. I’d love to see a Rolex datejust thrown into this comparison.

[@dopenerd]

One things for sure, Seiko rests on its laurels a lot, because they got the brand recognition and they know people will buy their watches regardless of fit and finish.

[@mukakta]

Saw some macro shots somewhere which appear to show that the lower-priced GS models skimp out on finishing by quite a bit. Would be interested to see a macro comparison between this one and your SBGA373!

[@ilikewatches]

True although my SBGA was refinished so not sure it would be the best to include that one

[@paulelliott7493]

That was a surprise, they seem to be notible for the bad, and the good is mostly about equal. I think the losers were the Timex which could be expected and the GS because at the price that should be excellent everywhere...the SM might have won overall as it was either excellent or very good all over

[@Scaramouch.]

Interesting video. Seems like ali brands now has very good finishing on cases, they should try new designs i think. Also seems like this Zaratsu finishig just marketing, it's just fine mirror polishing.

[@thodorissaritziotis3306]

My Tissot prx quartz has one of the best finishings i ever seen! It makes the steel feel nice and soft, especially the bracelet! Quite impressive for the money! Better than many other, more expensive watches!

[@Emaratilfy]

It's actually quite average. But hard to tell if you don't have many watches in your collection to compare it to.

[@thodorissaritziotis3306]

@@Emaratilfy as I said, for the price point (375€), not in general... I don't know which watch you compare it with and at what price point... Btw I've got 10 on my collection, but I've always enjoyed looking at friends watches from up close too!

[@dunderhay9169]

A fascinating comparison, great photography thank you 👍. I was thinking during the video, how many are made in China? I think it is fair to assume the GS case and dial were made in Japan, but it is possible all the others were made in China 🤔

[@ilikewatches]

Many many brands have their steel work done in china still including many Swiss brands. Often when they say cased in china it’s because the steel work was done in china so the brand just sent their movements there to finish the assembly there…

[@benjaminvis]

That was definitely interesting and surprising. The biggest surprise, and one that warrants investigation, is why the GS stands out in a negative way on the case and bracelet. The brushing uniformity is fine, but the rest is below expectations on this watch. Why? Under the crystal it redeems itself though. I actually found the brushing on the Citizen particularly attractive. The polishing certainly is not, which is a pity. Unless truly going for satin (e.g. San Martin is attractively uniform, but more soft), I prefer brushing to really look like brushing and have discernible grooves, but they should be uniform and not rough and deep, like on the Timex. This is where the brushing on the Citizen shines. San Martin stands out in the positive for consistently good quality on the case and bracelet, but not necessarily for being the most attractive in any area.

[@Shri_V]

Those are some excellent macro shots. What camera and lens are you using?

[@ilikewatches]

iPhone 12…and a very cheap macro lens from amazon…lighting is the most important thing with shots like this

[@AlexanderB.]

Casio don't specify it, but I believe there is some kind of hardening coating on the Oceanus, maybe it's resulting in that haziness on the surface. My copy of the Oceanus is still spotless, no scratches, not even microswirls on the clasp. And I never noticed the haziness with my naked eye.

[@denniskwok7613]

Very surprising with regards to the Grand Seiko. My previous gen SGBN003 GMT is amazingly well finished, but this new version is pretty bad. I wonder if Grand Seikos QC has taken a hit with their cheaper models, since their production has needed to increase.

[@S-Ltd1000]

Pretty sure the Oceanus is zaratsu polished as well. I know my gshock MTG is.

[@joelrussell]

Seiko Zaratsu polishing is so overstated.

[@MathewBT81]

SanMartin smashing it out the park as always 🎉🏆

[@waynesellers4078]

Your casio surprised me as I have the t200 and it doesn't have that hazing.

[@murph8411]

The grand Seiko 12 o’clock marker has been cut at a slight angle compared to the grooves! Bad qc for the price.

[@MarkM58]

I own an Oceanus T-200 and do not have any other those issues. I think I would send it back to Casio for a replacement, assuming you bought it new. That watch is assembled on the Premium Production Line and also has Zaratsu polishing. The dust is unforgivable. As for GS, that is also disappointing, considering you could buy all of the other watches for less money that the one GS. I own several San Martins and have been very impressed.

[@baloosd]

12:36 nice pun

[@charlesdelusignan7909]

This would have been very interesting with the Baltany 1921 or something like a Cronos or a Xerix

[@ivokaltchev8510]

Great content, we need more macro and facts to dissipate the BS mist so heavily present in horlogery.

[@ilikewatches]

Love that term…BS Mist….im using that!

[@murph8411]

I thought the San Martin looked rounded over on the edge you weren’t focused on at the upper part of the screen.

[@scottlewis2372]

Could the "hard coating" on the Casio be the reason for the dull polished areas?

[@ilikewatches]

It could be although Ive filmed other watches with coatings and not seen that before. I didn't notice it in my full review but I zoomed in much more for this video and it became very obvious