Demon's Souls Compare-Through - Part 2: Boletaria to the Colorless Fog

[@MrReliks]

"I promise the gap between this eposode and the next won't be nearly as long as the wait for this episode was." Half way there :)

[@illusorywall]

*sweats nervously* :)

[@HoneyDoll894]

yeah i was thinking this too

[@Naim11443]

@@illusorywall LOL LOL

[@personman1148]

Ha

[@Rudi4rius]

@@illusorywall HmMmmmMmmMMMMmmMm

[@IronPineapple]

These videos are so good! You have so many great insights behind the thought process Bluepoint may have had when deciding on what to change. As someone who likes the remake a lot but is sometimes a bit too critical, this makes me appreciate the remake a lot more. Also your music theory analysis is incredible.

[@illusorywall]

Thanks so much! I love your videos so your feedback means a lot.

[@Atrahasis7]

Your criticism is valid, I also prefer the original. I dont hate the remake it looks gorgeous but They changed a lot of items and architecture unnecessarily which were obviously meant to represent european historical ones.

[@brentloy131]

These comparison videos really are quality

[@RyleyStorm]

@@illusorywall please make part 3😗🤕

[@Atomy111]

You lot are too knitpicky 😂

[@hamfootsia]

Actually an important note about the time frame of Des is that in the original Japanese dialogue Biorr implies he was imprisoned for around three years, and Ostrava explicitly states that Biorr went missing "many years" ago in the Fog. While it was still likely recent in the grand scheme of things, the Fog definitely has been building over the course of years, not just months, meaning the destruction and plant growth is entirely feasible.

[@illusorywall]

This fits better with how the Worshipper of God talks about it! I'll be sure to bring this up in a future episode.

[@TheCrewExpendable]

We also now there was some amount of time between Allant awakening the old one and the fog starting to expand and send everything to ****. At some point Boletaria sends a bunch of soldiers to the Northern Limit to try to contain the demon outbreak. Also the Fat Officials are around long enough for the populace to despise them.

[@ThePepperskate]

Centering the whole discourse around the plants in the remake around "does this make sense within the lore of the game" kinda misses the point. These games are obtuse to the point where you could make any sort of lore explanation for or against the plants. It's an artistic decision, and with a remake like this I think every artistic decision should be looked at under the question of "does this capture the spirit of the original?" And with a lot of these changes, the plants included, it in my opinion really just doesn't.

[@hamfootsia]

@@ThePepperskate Perhaps! But I think the "feel" is also entirely subjective; your takeaway from the original is probably vastly different from mine, and neither is "right" or "wrong". I simply wanted to point out that if we wanted to find a lore explanation for this choice, there is one available, not whether or not it was a "correct" choice.

[@Bluecho4]

I, indeed, considered that some amount of time may have passed between Allant returning with his demons and everything fully going to hell. That this was a gradual process, that ramped up near the end. Which makes a great deal of sense. If Allant arrived and immediately attempted a full blown purge of Boletaria's non-demonic population, we probably would have seen a more organized resistance. The demons become more powerful as they consume souls and produce more soul-starved. It follows that the new demonic regime occurred in stages, so as to meticulously dismantle the ability of Boletria's citizenry to resist. Or indeed to forestall the populace _considering_ resistance until it was too late. "First they came for the witches, but I did not resist, for I was not a witch." Etc, etc.

[@GuardianOwl]

Doran is the founder of Boletaria which likely dates back to the time of the First Scourge so it makes sense for him to speak like a man out of time in the original game. There have been twelve Allants so it’s probably been at least 500 years since Doran’s day.

[@red_menace1829]

Holy heck wow, never knew this

[@toowingless9473]

Why do I always get such an odd sense of nostalgia when you access out of bounds areas. There’s some about low texture/detailed zones that just comfort me

[@TheWizardOfSand]

Yeah that fork in the path going up the steep mountain for some reason gave me banjo tooie flashbacks.

[@loubloom1941]

Same here. I feel like the idea of liminal space plays a part as well. Areas that exist that are out of bounds fit in perfectly. They exist physically but are unfinished and don't seem to have a purpose. They're something in between.

[@j_c_93]

Unrelated, but when I first played Dark Souls, it reminded me so much of Banjo Tooie. The complex and interconnected world was extremely similar to what Banjo Tooie did.@@TheWizardOfSand

[@KingOfMelos]

I'm honestly really impressed with how good that town below Boletaria looks in the original considering the game's age and how not at all important to the story it is. I love details like that! Fantastic video as always

[@thefebo8987]

it looks better

[@JayTraversJT]

@@thefebo8987 honestly yeah

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

From is really good with little things like that

[@Mayhzon]

Demon's Souls world is just magical for how "small" the game is. I appreciate the devs of the remake going through the effort, too, though.

[@Simonsavvi]

It's 2024. It has been 20 years since Snake Eater first released, yet I still get goosebumps when that song plays over footage of someone climbing a ladder.

[@kot4311]

I interpreted the boulder guy looking to the side as him trying to hear if something is going on downstairs

[@j_c_93]

This actually makes perfect sense to me, especially considering he wouldn't be able to really see anything in front of the boulder and would need to listen for footsteps

[@octahedronlover]

29:00 I like to think he's not looking off to the side, but instead turning his ear to listen for people coming up the stairs

[@kingborehaha]

I'll add my two cents regarding how render culling is handled: the way original Demon's Souls (and every other SoulsBorne game) handles rendering is NOTORIOUSLY awful and I would be beyond shocked if it wasn't 99% stripped for the remake. For everybody not familiar with how this system works: basically, the game decides what should and should not render based on the individual piece of collision the player is currently standing on. Each piece of collision tells the game which of the 128 individual render groups to display (128 in DS1 at least, I can't verify this for DeS but it's likely the same). These groups I believe, disgustingly enough, are set mostly (if not entirely) by hand. You can imagine how INCREDIBLY easy this is for level designers to mess up, which they have indeed done many times in every souls game. These oversights are responsible for things not being visible when they really should (and vice versa, for performance and otherwise).

[@heyguysinternet]

Is it really “notoriously awful”? You’re the first person I’ve seen express that in the decade-plus I’ve followed conversations around FromSoftware’s games.

[@kingborehaha]

@@heyguysinternet haha, well, notorious among people familiar with the system. all 20 of us!

[@28Pluto]

@@heyguysinternet It's considered awful among people familiar with the programming of games... The average player will never notice or be affected by it.

[@NiGHTSnoob]

@@28Pluto Counterargument: Blightown's performance is partially a result of this.

[@luciano1240]

This made me remember: In DS3, where you get the Red Tearstone Ring, directly to the right of the bridge of the Dragonslayer Armour, you can see the bridge but the Pilgrim Butterfly can't be seen, and this was strange because you can see the Butterfly when you are at the fog door and this is only a few steps away

[@foolsfog8409]

"In the Age of Ancients, the world was unformed, shrouded by fog. A land of grey crags, archtrees, and the first episode of this series. Then came the second episode, and with the second episode, came me, impatiently waiting for episode 3"

[@reederickson3202]

49:40 That door is meant for loading carts. It's raised off the ground so you can back a cart up to it and load barrels onto the cart.

[@Taipan278]

fantastic video as always, particularly liked how you broke down the loss of character in the new music. it stuck out especially to me given Final Fantasy 7 Remake coming out that same year and having incredibly ambitious rearrangements that almost always preserved the identity of the work. A common element in that soundtrack was beginning a track with a busier, more modern sound that is gradually peeled away to reveal the core melodies and instruments of the original. I kept expecting the Demon's Souls Remake tracks to do this, but they almost never did.

[@hievenhade7545]

I don't know if or when this will be mentioned in this series, but one of the main things I don't like about the remake (which, admittedly, I have not played yet) is the fact that the player character still makes walking and breathing noises in soul form, whereas in the original they were completely silent apart from a unique hit sound. I just find the complete lack of sound from the character, who already did not talk, so interesting and cool, making the concept of the soul form stand out even more and it was a nice fit into the bleak, silent atmosphere. speaking positive of the remake, I can relate to the fluted knight at 1:13:47

[@kegluneq6306]

I've heard this criticism a few times but as someone who played the two a long time apart, it wasn't tremendously jarring for me. World Tendancy means it's safer to play in soul form for a lot of the game, and the sounds the player character makes in different armour and when interacting with the environment give a much more...solid feel? Perhaps having a 'true soul form' at 0 souls held may have been a compromise.

[@houndoomdude2]

I really appreciate the nuance you bring to the discussion when comparing your preference for elements of the original over the remake. I think there is a lot of misplaced criticism that frames the remake as being somehow not carefully or effortfully made when for me it comes across as such an intensive, high effort remake compared to so many games. That doesn’t mean every change from the original is a good one but I appreciate noting the difference between a lazy or pointless change and one that just doesn’t capture a positive aspect of the original.

[@illusorywall]

If you'd like to support this channel & series, consider supporting me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/illusorywall Now that there's finally more than one episode to this, I've made a playlist link for this series! kzbin.info/aero/PLH-cMCF0_NrYvgRxw9ioR8V0AnAzEmMpa Don't forget to also check out Demon's Souls Dissected, which will have more videos eventually as well: kzbin.info/aero/PLH-cMCF0_NrZ7nVu0fYcJ5R-xzbnd8yjY Re: Boulder Guy idling animation. Everyone who is saying he's leaning in for a listen is probably right! What throws me off is how instead of just doing that though, he has that really awkward and sudden jerk backwards that makes it look like a weird and sudden reaction to something. But that's probably just the gesture being overly expressive due to the player not being meant to see it up-close. Speaking of which, figuring out how to get that shot was a fun thought experiment. -You can't get close enough as the host and photomode is paused when you're playing solo anyways. -Hosts can't go into human form for multi-player in 1-1 until NG+. -So it needed to be seen as a hostile invading phantom in NG+ or higher, who won't trigger the trap. -Invaders can't clear fog gates and progress through levels on their own, and there is a fog gate below by the two soldiers "talking" to each other. -So you need to invade a host in NG+ who has cleared that fog but also hasn't gone far enough to have triggered the boulder trap. Of course I just invaded a friend instead of trying to get lucky, but that's why I had some confidence in saying nobody has seen it upclose before until now. The circumstances are way too specific and it seems unlikely to happen unless you completely go out of your way to try and see it upclose. But all that being said, there's a couple more boulder traps awaiting us in 1-3 and I haven't yet checked to see what those guys do. We'll see when we get there!

[@senseweaver01]

Every time you said you'd talk about something in a later episode, I was like "Great, only a few more years to get answers then"

[@personman1148]

Still waiting

[@senseweaver01]

@@personman1148 Yeah, eight months later, holy shit...

[@birel3336]

THE FLAGS! Those burn too! If you hit them with fire or magic, it's a pretty neat detail!

[@snakeknot]

I was in a hotel when I figured out the photo mode thing

[@illusorywall]

(for anyone wondering, this is about making the Dragon God disappear in the cutscene) I found it so hard to do on purpose, did you find yourself reloading your save a bunch (or quickly force quitting) from failed attempts or were you just that good/lucky?! I'm still very impressed how you found that! It felt like a "frame perfect" kind of thing. Thanks again for sharing that with me.

[@snakeknot]

@@illusorywall I just got lucky somehow, and your welcome

[@28Pluto]

@@snakeknot You got lucky in a hotel room... Some people will never know that sweet experience.

[@lenikai]

Our lord Illusory wall has blessed us once again with a masterpiece, its a christmas miracle!

[@spyrotikus]

Preach

[@lenikai]

@@spyrotikus Umbasa

[@Morgannin]

As someone who didn't get the chance to get very invested in Demon's Souls (played it just before DS2 came out), I can still agree with numerous changes being for the worse in the remake. Some are pedantic disagreements, some I actually enjoyed the remake as a sort of "reinterpretation" of the themes (the more gross, hedonistic design of the Adjudicator springs to mind), but stuff like the completely-off-mark design of the Fat Officials are just baffling. Chiefly I really think the music blew it. It's a classic case of trying to be more Hollywood with the orchestral arrangements and forgetting why video game music is fundamentally different. Also 57:30 I never had any reason to think the Hoplite enemies had a falling animation but... Well there it is.

[@Maytag99]

Yeah, I completely agree.

[@illusorywall]

The other day I had the idea of trying to see if you could push the hoplite off the staircase in 1-1 to kill it with gravity, turns out you can! I've never seen one so bouncy during the boss fight otherwise though, I have no idea how tricky that is to see or replicate. :p

[@igornaimoli7321]

Bluepoint is flawless in technical aspects but damn do they need better artists... Also they literally had all the original artwork! They could have built the models around it in every single detail! Like, why is the Dragon God a refined version of the original in-game one when they could do it exactly like the one in the CGI trailer!

[@GameBooAdvancePlus]

Agree completely. Though I will say that a lot of pedantic sounded criticisms feel like they could be waved away, but they're so numerous and ubiquitous that they coagulate into a mass of frustration that not a lot of people can convey without sounding like a nitpicky idiot.

[@tiborszakal5799]

@@igornaimoli7321 I don't think the artists at bp are necessarily bad. Hell, the remake's art style is pretty good, it just clashes with the theme from was going for. They just missed the mark I think.

[@TriforceWisdom64]

Coming back to watch this after the Stonefang episode, I get the impression that whoever had the final say on the soundtrack really did just dislike the original. When development started on the remake, Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 were already out, and those games had live orchestras performing grand scores. They must have made the changes to bring this OST in line with those. The director, producer, or whoever might have even assumed that the old soundtrack didn't reflect the original vision for the game, and thought the new one would match better.

[@cameronstone4495]

When you go out of bounds into the low poly town, it kind of looks like you're stepping into PS1 King's Field.

[@kageakiminato8536]

Kingsfield- SOUL Soulsborne- soulless

[@Redditstories-78]

​@@kageakiminato8536what I didn't understand

[@Moshugaani]

The original Demon's Souls look surprisingly good in higher resolution!

[@WarMomPT]

I find it interesting that the Dregling Merchant went from mentioning 'depraved slaves' to 'lowly fodder'. Though both obviously point to different classes within Boletarian society (and reinforces his ex-soldier status), the latter is implied in the overall world design whereas the former is a lot less explicit, except for arguably the Dreglings that power the lift to Allant in 1-4. I dunno, I just thought it was cool that they had a line of dialogue early on that made you view Boletaria's grandiosity in light of the exploitation of other people, even within the capital.

[@Crota0100]

It was interesting to see how the tutorial worked, never knew you couldn't die until the Vangaurd fight.

[@hoshmoggen1746]

At first glance, when I saw the structure behind the Dragon God, I assumed it was the target for the ballista. I would assume that the structure wasn't built to house a giant dragon and that it was originally for shooting practice.

[@inigoaraluce8493]

OH MY GOOOOD I thought you dropped this series! I actually rewatched the 1rst video like a week ago and thought to myself "damn, I wish part 2 would come someday"

[@wanchorman472]

when you said "But today, we're not gonna talk about the Nexus", the level of fear I had of an ad-break was palpable (I know that isn't a thing here, but it's like a pavlovian response at this point - hear segue, get ready to skip about 1:30 ahead)

[@miecraftandmoregames]

Your content is much appreciated as someone who has only played fully the PS5 version i didn't have a point of reference for all the complains other OG demon's souls players had and puts all into prespective even if i don't agree with some of them.

[@burzum2649]

Absolutely glorious, your skilled craft and dedication is much appreciated.

[@hatskeleton635]

Not sure if you're already planning to talk about it, but BluePoint note how they changed up the architecture and colour palette as you ventured deeper into Boletarian Palace, to give it the feeling of going from a military outpost to a royal and upperclass castle.

[@illusorywall]

Oh, absolutely. In this episode when I mentioned that I was going to talk about their reasoning for this change, I had that exact segment from the noclip documentary in mind. I almost put it into this episode but figured I'd wait until we return to 1-3 and 1-4! I'm going to be a little critical of it in that I think they failed to make the first half of Boletaria castle simple enough that it doesn't quite crescendo into that change in the way they probably would've liked. You do see things get much fancier around the entrance to The Penetrator, but we're still kind of numbed by all the detail at that point. I do like the general idea though, and I think it was a good opportunity where they could've had their cake and ate it too. Like hypothetically, if the first half of Boletaria was a lot more reserved and closer in aesthetic to the original, then I don't think as many people would've had issue if it switched to something more opulent and gothic as you approached 1-4. I would've also been curious to see what an attempt at making it look upperclass and indulgent within the confines of a Roman neo-classical look, too. Since the idea of "this is where the greedy rich people live" doesn't inherently mean it has to be in the Gothic style, and so that goal of theirs doesn't totally explain the shift in style/ period. In way it feels like halfway successful to me. :)

[@neamraven]

Part of the problem there is that it already looks way too lavish to begin with. Instead of going 1-100, it goes 96-100.

[@illusorywall]

@@neamraven Yeah my thoughts exactly.

[@Ramon22282]

As someone who never got to play the original and just bought the remake last week, this series so far has been very interesting. Always a fan of your content!

[@Dan64Z03]

About the different loading in the game, iirc Bluepoint confirmed they load stuff differently to add more detail by exploiting the faster load times of an SSD in an interview/discussion they had with Digital Foundry when the game came out.

[@mairujyat]

I find your criticism of the music to be absolutely on point. The biggest problem I have with contemporary orchestral music for film and games, especially with fantasy-genre, is that there's a very distinct unwillingness to embrace dynamics. Not exactly in terms of volume or intensity, but rather in terms of *density*. There's a distinct unwillingness or maybe lack of creativity, or... something?... that leads to a lot of contemporary orchestral compositions come off as if the composers were afraid of having soloists perform, or rarely consider a trio or quartet or other small chamber arrangement. Being able to hear a trio playing counterpoint against one another can feel far more violent and intense compared to dozens doing the same - the sound becomes diffuse and indistinct, and the effect of each draw of the bow against the strings doesn't carry as much detail. What works well about the original tracks is that the intensity of the music is tied to the use of those limited number of players, and punctuation and stabs of either percussive or string elements really become that much more meaningful: it makes the transition from one section of the composition to another potentially easier to see coming, and allows for even small decisions on a per-instrument basis to really influence how the listener is meant to take it... Agonised vibrato? Angry, sharp staccato? A quieter ostinato bed of strings for a sonorous horn solo? Anyway, I'm rambling lol - I really think a straightforward cover of the original tracks would have been great, but they should also have taken liberties to use the expanded orchestra to fill some spots out and extend the viability of the loops: create more variety by pulling in and benching musicians a bit more discerningly. Should've taken notes from John Williams or Basil Poledouris to make the music feel truly alive, telling a story with turns and twists, rather than the opaque 'epic orchestra' tidal wave.

[@Stiggandr1]

Blue Point did a god tier remake. And beyond that, any developer should be humbled to have a fan who has so much passion and care for their work as you. Thanks for the video Illusory Wall.

[@Vneckvideos]

good video! The thing with the dragon debris and ds1 crow feathers is random because they're particle effects, and emitters just work that way. As for the corpses of tomas wife and daugther, I imagine they're not visible in the og because of rendering budgets, not memory. The assets are in memory anyway and the dragons in the distance may be loaded into memory, but they're not necessarily rendered. I noticed you use these terms quite interchangeably, but rendering isnt the same thing as just being loaded in. Most game engines use culling techniques to only render what is visible, so most things aren't actually rendered, eventhough they may be loaded in. Anyway your videos are really good, I appreciate you looking at stuff in the environment, it's sad how most players don't even bother looking at anything. One small thing I noticed about the achitecture that you didnt touch on is how the wooden ceilings have been raised in the remake, the rooms in the og felt very claustrophobic, so I like this change a lot, plus the new arched doorways wouldnt work well with the low ceilings either.

[@DJYungHoxha]

Fantastic video, thank you for making this series. As someone who has only played the remake, this makes me appreciate all the little design decisions they made, and all the consideration for the original they had even more. Honestly, apart from a few grievances, I couldn't have asked for a better remake for this game. Please continue this series, this is so insightful!

[@pendantblade6361]

That crystal lizard clip killed me.

[@mathieupr6391]

29:07 Might be a stretch, but I wonder if that "look to the side" could just be a gesture of "putting his head to the side to listen in if something's coming up the stairs". You know, like normal people might orientate their head in a specific direction if they're tryin to listen carefully to something. Again, might be a stretch, but I like that idea

[@aznashwan]

As someone who hasn't played the original back in the day (funnily enough I had ordered a copy but only received it shortly after the remake was announced so I decided to just wait on the remake), it's amazing to see all the work that was put into it. Considering it's been 1y+ since I played the remake, your compare-throughs really tempt me to revisit the original to see it for myself. (plus you can't get invaded in a game with no servers, eh?) Thank you very much for the valuable insights, and looking forward to part 3!

[@sokpupetthebarbarian]

I simply LOVE the noose Miralda wears in the remake, I can totally see her wanting to wear it. Aside from that, everything about the original outfit is superior. I think the reason she has that demonic echo in her voice is because she is turning into a demon. We see lots of demons that were once human, but we don't see what that transformation looks like. I gotta say it's strange how bluepoint seems to take every opportunity to change the artistic style to make it look more flashy, but when reaching the huge anime hair statue in the mausoleum they decide to replace him with generic king. At first I thought it was the "king of a small but diligent land" described by the monumental and shown on the archstone, but the crown is different. That original statue wasn't an accident, it is intentionally over the top and gives purpose to the mausoleum. "Who is this? It's obviously not Doran. Was he even real? How much Boletarian history will be lost in this scourge?" I remember looking up at the statue and wondering these things, the hair is just too crazy for me to think that it's not some mythologized exaggeration. But if I played the remake first I would just think, oh that's another king. By lacking a crown, I don't think anime hair guy was intended to be a king. I do think they were absolutely right to fancy up the mausoleum, tower knight's arena, and Allant's tower though. Awesome series you are doing here, the work you are putting in is amazing!

[@illusorywall]

Thanks so much! That's an interesting defense of the anime hair statue man and I dig it. Despite the long, long gap since Part 2, I AM working on Part 3 currently. It will be my next video. :)

[@NullPointer]

The parallax effect in the windows looks very convincing because the glass is blurry, the same effect in Spiderman looks super fake in comparison

[@illusorywall]

I was wondering what helped sell it, that makes sense! I have yet to play the Spider-Man games btw, but I'm assuming I'll enjoy them.

[@lucamckenn5932]

@@illusorywall they're buggy, so it depends on how you feel about spending a good chunk of dough on something that doesn't work. May have been fixed. Some studios just take the money and run so I doubt it.

[@Wickertop]

The new idling animation for the boulder guy could be trying to convey that he's straining to listen down the stairs for anyone approaching, especially when he leans up and over the boulder. It might just be my read on it, though - for a game that put quite a lot of effort into these new idle animations, I am doubtful they'd custom-make new idle animations for the one boulder guy in the game that just have him getting scared by the wall beside him.

[@ChishioAme]

That was my interpretation of it, too. While I doubt it was a consideration because I doubt the animators know much about actual armor, any helmet that covers your ears can seriously hamper your ability to hear things, especially when you factor in a padded coif with mail overtop underneath said helmet; boulder dude is wearing a visored kettle hat which limits your vision and hearing to almost the same degree as a full helmet (ironic, considering _not_ doing those things were a kettle hat's advantages), so him turning his head to get a better idea of if someone is coming up the stairs rather than one of his comrades just idling around makes perfect sense.

[@zZiL341yRj736]

Oh God damn I thought I'll never see Part 2. Now I have to wait another year for Part 3. This is like a very anticipated Hollywood movie.

[@illusorywall]

I'm going to try a lot harder to make the wait between episodes not nearly as long, lol. It'll still be several months though, but the difference this time is that the downtime between will be filled with other Souls videos actually being made instead of a hiatus. :)

[@JoeDower101]

@@illusorywall famous last words.

[@MossOwnsYouYT]

Man, I really can't wait for more of this series. I hope the drive to work on it hasn't faded.

[@illusorywall]

Thank you! I plan to start work on Part 3 soon, probably after two more Dissected videos (one of which should be up later this week). :)

[@KrankuSama]

80 minutes of content, absoloutely worth the wait for this one king.

[@inigoaraluce8493]

This is the 3rd time I've seen this video and the analysis of the music is just out of this world, incredible

[@illusorywall]

Thank you so much! I know it's been a while but there will be a part 3 eventually! 😀

[@lunchbagrodriguez]

@@illusorywall exactly what I came to this video looking for, keep up the amazing work! ❤️

[@the.musiciangamer]

I really love these videos. I play these games looking at every little detail I can and what you are doing here is so enjoyable to watch from the gameplay aspects to the lore. Thank you for taking the the time to make these and look forward to the watching the rest.

[@TheSuperColonel]

Hope we will see part 3.

[@illusorywall]

It's in the scripting phase currently! :)

[@josephbulkin9222]

@@illusorywall IT IS????

[@mantisreturns2757]

@@illusorywall Man this videos are so good, really you are so great.

[@Sentinel_ICBM]

This is one of the more impressive videos I've seen on youtube as a whole, hands down. The amount of effort that went into getting the synchronized shots and hidden content had to be extremely time consuming. Great work.

[@filenotfound_2416]

Yes, finally! I’ve been waiting for you to make another episode of this. I love seeing super in-depth comparisons between the original and the remake and very few, if any, dive as deep as you do in this series. Please keep them coming!

[@cybercleric]

every time I see a video game ladder in any video I prepare myself, but it always tickles me so much when it actually comes

[@Candle_]

I just wish they gave some kind of option in the audio settings to switch between the classic and new soundtrack

[@lucamckenn5932]

To this day I think resident evil 2 remake may be the only one. Albeit you have to fork over $2. Og sound effects too, the bloops, the page turning on notes, sexy stuff.

[@Comkill117]

I don’t know why but every time someone puts the vocals of Snake Eater over a ladder like that one part in MGS3 it gets me.

[@fugazinemesis]

4:27 The Wilhelm scream... Awesome!

[@eyegrinder94]

What's funny about the ladder climbing is that even though it feels slow, you still climb faster in the original than the average person climbs ladders in real life.

[@neamraven]

Climbing stairs and ladders is no joke. I can do 10 pull ups (still a very hard exercise) more easily than going up 10 flights of stairs.

[@eyegrinder94]

@@neamraven Yeah your hands get tired quick cause you're leaning backwards, so they're carrying half your weight. Also once you're up a bit you become aware that your hands are all that's keeping you from becoming a cripple, so you'll start to do things like elbow locking, slowing you down even further.

[@neamraven]

@@eyegrinder94 Now imagine doing that in a full suit of armor.

[@Talking_Ed]

@@neamraven The biggest concern about armour would be the grip, it must be pretty hard to basically impossible with heavier ones to use a ladder, the weight is not a problem because of distribution but the rest, dayum

[@SecretEccentric]

Holy shit, over an hour of Illusory? Yes please!

[@JustAnderw]

I love the reverb from ostrava's helmet in the remake. I think in a way it makes him sound exhausted and out of his element, like he's catching his breath without literally catching his breath. This makes sense since without our help he'll die in every stage he appears in.

[@danj1101]

The distant town alterations feel like they make a lot of sense. They've repositioned it so that they seem symbiotic as they would for a real castle-town pairing, with the castle providing overwatch and refuge for the town. The town is now much more directly under the castle's aegis.

[@Klosterliv]

I disagree, in both original and remake the town is much too far from the castle to benefit from its defenses. In the remake the walls make little sense being totally exposed to the mountains. Up there on the ridge right above the church should be a castle for the most defensible position on the perimeter and from where any invaders could easily set the town on fire or launch attacks. The walls and especially the modern-PRC-like-scale viaduct leading along the coast make no sense in relation to the limited size of the settlement (and the existence of the harbor), which looks more populous in the original. With the level of architecture it should probably sprawl more. The one in the original, unassuming, actually looks like a real medieval town. The remake one looks like generic fantasy photobash concept art fished out on artstation made with no concessions to realism, complete with snowy mountains in the background. Bluepoint reinterpreted the world of DeS into more high fantasy more recognizable to DS3 where in the original (largely ignoring concept art / intro cinematic) it seemed more like Berserk - a grounded high medieval setting suddenly invaded by demonic horrors. The towers on the walls of the castle just look ridiculous and defaulting to gothic embellishments just feels like a sloppy way to add detail. These assets can also be acquired ready-made by licensing other artists' works and just kitbashed since they are so ubiquitous (this is not discrediting, just to point out a path of least resistance). And that is just what the vines are: Bluepoint must have developed or acquired tools/pipeline to quickly add vines to everything, a cheap and easy way of adding detail and visual interest. It doesn't line up with the aesthetic impression of the original or the worldbuilding, but that doesn't matter as it's instant detail. Bluepoint clearly has talented staff and contractors but the direction to me lacks ideals and/or taste. Sorry for dumping this reply/rant on your comment, it had little to do with it and I could have thrown it somewhere else just as well, lol.

[@danj1101]

@@Klosterliv A lot of your rant seems like wild assumptions made about Bluepoint's developers, to be honest. You seem to be making leaps to suit your preconceptions. I'd also disagree the original felt THAT much more grounded or realistic (unless you mean "more square"). As you say yourself, the intro sequence seems about as high fantasy "kitbash" as fantasy comes and the in-game Palace is, while more muted than that, also a wild and sprawling fantasy behemoth of a castle - the Lord's Path and the eye-catching geography of the stone arch being good examples. I suppose artist's intent is a separate discussion, but the intro art and the overall evolution of the Souls franchise also leads me to believe that a lot of DeS' overall look owes more to the hardware limitations of the PS3 than any particular developer intent for a more practical world.

[@Klosterliv]

​@@danj1101 Hmm I don't think my assumptions and preconceptions are that wild to be honest. My assumptions are mostly about the craft where the result is what it is and I'm pretty much assuming they are working at optimal efficiency in generating their geometry, so if I'm right it would probably be acknowledging expertise if anything. Perhaps though (probably) it is unfair of me to call Bluepoint sloppy - they worked hard on this project and made a lot of good things, but yes this part is directed by my personal taste and many things are disappointing to me. And yes, in this case 'more square' is more grounded as it reflects a historical, realistic defensive architectural style of high medieval fortifications, where a later style could have been less 'square' and still more grounded. Please don't take too seriously my 'sloppy' and reductive lack of eloquence in illustrating how I think this could have went down (I just presently lack creativity to concisely express it another way): 'Ok lemme just pick this block, spin 90d, boolean, bevel bottom, BAM visual interest, boomer AD will be so happy I have made more polygons, I don't need to reference real life fortresses I'm a certified hard-surface God'. That's quite a 'leap' perhaps, but at its essence it must to my mind be quite close to how it happened, since uh it is pretty much normal in visual design and no other considerations make themselves apparent. Masonry textures be looking real nice in the remake tho. I can't give credit to the artistic intent of From at the time since it is unknown, but the result is known, so perhaps somewhere along the line from the high-fantasy concepts of 2d intro cinematic (that I even at the time considered a bit iffy tbh) to 3d environment someone was like nahbro and referenced something real. And with all the nods to Berserk this doesn't seem so unfeasible. Making random over-the-top high fantasy buildings is more simple, and generally more self-gratifying than reigning oneself in for realism I think. And yes, I agree whatever From dreamt up and developed must have been limited by hardware and scrawny budgeting of a niche bet for a game, but the setting is different from Dark Souls and in comparing the two the less mythically high fantasy energy of it is something that I and many others appreciate. What you mention, the stone arch and the scale of the palace, are absolutely features weighing toward nonsense. But the point of balance is in another spot than the original, which I think is a bit of a shame. Now, why can I suddenly spew such amounts of nitpicky garbage about this? I'm absolutely projecting my irks about nonsense worldbuilding in modern media at large toward this largely good adaption, but that's because I care about it particularly as a personal classic. The most obvious sin, like many point out, are toward the soundtrack, but I think this is in line with and reinforces what else irks about this remake: "Make it more 'e p i c'" - a part of the zeitgeist that needs be aborted.

[@JudgementBruno]

This video is already incredible, and haven't even watched it yet.

[@senseweaver01]

With standards that low, you must have an awesome life

[@sunless]

Wow !! The amount of work went into this is astonishing and brings up very interesting insights, had me deeply invested and immersed in the video for its entire length, thank you for the awesome work illusory wall

[@catalystz]

A fantastic piece of work, IW. I am certain this takes an incredible amount of time to put together. Also, loved the MGS3 reference at 19:05!

[@MiloRaglan]

That Snake Eater reference was *chef's kiss*. I could almost feel it coming but was surprised when it actually happened.

[@Felicificity]

I’m glad you showed the brilliance of the remake while also criticizing its other elements, especially the soundtrack. It really was my biggest complaint by far, ruining a lot of the atmosphere of many boss fights. Some of my favorite, weirder tracks with very specific tones, like the Fool’s Idol (extremely off kilter and eerie) and the Dragon God (strangely muted for such a big boss, suggesting a stealth approach) got neutered and transformed into generic, grandiose orchestral arrangements. That works well for fights like the Storm King that celebrate the scope of the fight, but the rest of the boss fights felt less memorable in the remake as a result. It’s just one of those few strange blemishes on an otherwise admirable remaster.

[@jbrake-kp5gj]

My dude over here explaing tech and music like a god

[@terrycrist3]

Regarding the architectural changes, Miyazaki said in the DS1 Design Works interview that Demon’s was inspired by the “early Middle Ages” and DS1 (Anor Londo in particular) was meant to convey a later period. The remake’s change to more Gothic architecture seems to largely erase the temporal difference. To me, original Demon’s feels more 11th through 13th Century (High Middle Ages) but the remake feels more 13th through 16th Century (late medieval or Renaissance), which ironically is closer to DS1.

[@saikousocial]

Any update on the next episode? Not trying to rush you or anything, just genuinely really excited for the next entry. Your videos are extremely entertaining and well put together. Please keep up the good work if you can.

[@illusorywall]

Hey thanks so much! I'm currently working on Part 3, which should likely be finished in a couple weeks.

[@WyomingDisaster]

@@illusorywall "which should likely be finished in a couple weeks" Well, umm, it's been 2 months...

[@FreekinEkin2]

The truth is, to the ear of someone who knows nothing about music, the Phalanx theme is unrecognisable. I'm sure someone familiar with music theory can say "hey, look how they kept this chord progression" or something technical, but to a novice it's a different piece of music. In contrast, Tower Knight sounds like a mostly improved, grand version of the original. That said, I do wish they'd started with an even heavier HAHA than the original. For all the talk about fan service, it's kinda weird to hollow out the most memorable moment of the entire soundtrack.

[@iota-09]

i wonder if they didn't think all of the "HA-HAHAHA-HA!" tidus laugh memes were taken by BP as mocking the track out of hatred, and not out of "tough love"? like how players might say they hate patches, but all of us, even those who most hate him as a character, would hate to see patches never even trying to trick you to be kicked down a pit, same here... maybe not everyone who made those memes actually like the og theme, but it's such a shame to not have even a nod to it.(and in the case of most o the remake themes, the nod is either far into the song, or focusing on the wrong aspects of the theme, like phalanx and fool idol's)

[@FreekinEkin2]

@@iota-09 To be clear, Bluepoint's comments about serving fans aren't genuine. It's advertiser language. They're trying to sell a game, at the end of the day. They clearly just thought the HAHA was too goofy for a new audience. The newer, bigger audience was no doubt their main focus.

[@TheSuperRatt]

@@FreekinEkin2 I played Demon's Souls in its original incarnation on the PS3, and the ost did not impress. It was 'unique', but I don't praise things just for their uniqueness. It has to please as well. The Tower Knight's theme specifically was, to me, as you put it: goofy. I'm very happy with the remake's sound track, with the sole exception of Maiden Astraea's theme. Though I of course can sympathize with other fan's desires for the ability to switch between the remake and original compositions.

[@FreekinEkin2]

@@TheSuperRatt It was hit and miss. Some tracks from the original were better, some of the new ones are. I think Phalanx is a pretty heavy downgrade, whereas the original Storm King was hardly even music, and is now one of the best tracks in a Souls game.

[@kvikram19]

Watching this series makes me appreciate in general the mind boggling amount of work that must go into making video games like this.

[@JJW410]

Love how ridulously indept this is! A fanatasic long watch. And good shout about the dedgling merchant, as a Glaswegian I didn't even notice the difference myself until you pointed it out! Keep up the great work man :D

[@nikito370]

Excellent content. The hour flew by and I want more.

[@JuliusCaesar103]

This is fast becoming my favorite series on KZbin. I absolutely love your love (if that makes any sense lol) for the details in the OG Demon's Souls and you find the perfect word for it which is the only one I can think of, namely alien, so many small design decisions in that one made the world feel alien which is a quality I feel is lacking in the future installments of the series, which are also great, but the atmosphere has yet to be surpassed imo. I wish you got these videos out a bit more quickly but I acknowledge the tons of research and everything that goes behind them so I'll just let my day be made on an irregular schedule, which I'm pretty happy with. So to make it quick, I love the series and keep it up, you got a huge fan in me.

[@synthpotato]

1:17:25 “I promise the wait between this and the next episode won’t be as long” 8 months later 🥲

[@marcellosilva9286]

Looking forward to having my grandkids watch the rest of the series.

[@alumlovescake]

It is nice that Ostrava actually uses the iron helm found in the Unknown Egress apposed to the new helm that you start with. I prefer the new one but the old one fits him better

[@Stiggandr1]

29:00 He's not looking off to the side, he's turning an ear to the stairs. :)

[@thelegoflappysmith8581]

Continuing the soundtrack discussion, my favorite theme from the remake is most definitely the Penetrator's OST mostly because it feels justified in being different from the original because it was just the Tower Knight's OST reused. In terms of the rest of the soundtrack I feel the opening theme and Soul of the mist sound just off enough to really irk me unlike the rest of the OST which just tries to emulate the original themes but mostly does it's own thing.

[@Odinsday]

I still wish they included the original soundtrack for fans who wanted it. It seems like such an obvious design oversight. I think the original is way better and has a unique atmosphere compared to any other game soundtrack I've ever heard. Still, the remake has a good OST, but it isn't Demon's Souls.

[@thelegoflappysmith8581]

@@Odinsday definitely wish that was a thing, it doesn't seem likely that the remake will get any updates or DLC that could add this feature which I find kinda sad.

[@azc0na]

I think an issue too is that with the way they released the score, it's not all of the music in the actual game, and a lot of the boss themes are extended to include new parts, or embellishments of the instrumentals and melody without the chorus. May not seem like a lot, but it helps the soundtrack not feel overly reliant on the choir, and the album release sadly makes it seem that way (though there is still a bit more choir than necessary at points, ala Allant)

[@BrorealeK]

I think that sparse chamber music would match the more outwardly baroque art style and architecture even more, in fact. So much pf the remake's music feels generic.

[@zatoka08]

My favourite track from the remake is definitely the Storm King's.

[@Zoemakesvideo]

Man I love these videos. I was pretty mid on both versions of the game if I'm being honest but these videos have me addicted. I hope you get the chance to make more. I am dying to see a Latria comparison but I can imagine these take a lot of time to make. If these three end up being all you ever make I'm really thankful for the hours of entertainment. Thanks a bunch.

[@mechamobibo]

The idle animation in 29:07 makes me think of someone trying to listen to something far, at least I turn my ear towards something I hear, but don't see

[@ReynbowSync]

A year later and still waiting for part 3. How dare the end of this video tell me the gap won't be as long. How dare!! :P

[@dividednations44]

First of all, I want to applaud the astonishing amount of work that went into this comparison. It's truly the closest in-depth objective analysis of both versions. Second of all, I'd like to highlight that a lot of actually realistic and historically nuanced elements in the remake get mistaken to be ornamental or excesses of detail. One of the most egregious examples of this are the so-called "scaffoldings" on Boletaria's wall. It's not scaffolding, it is called hoardings or wooden brattices, wooden structures to supplement stone fortification, built during wartime.

[@Lunartic_]

You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you. I find this series interesting and like it a lot since I strongly dislike most changes they made to the game since they seem unnecessary and some of them are just out of placed. Though, I did like your explanation on foliage near the two dragons.

[@DJYungHoxha]

"I promise the gap between this eposode and the next won't be nearly as long as the wait for this episode was." :(

[@bakubread9308]

I tend to generally disagree with critics of the remake, but I definitely agree that they did a lot of the music worse. Phalanx is a really good example of robbing a track of its uniqueness for no apparent reason. best I can describe the feeling the new track gives off is the theme of a boss thats returning after many years of the franchise moving forward, in an entirely new game where the boss hardly resembles its original form and thus the music also only vaguely calls back to that old theme.

[@aiellamori]

As someone who didn't play the original, I find it hard to agree with the music. To me, the old music just sounds plain worse. I don't hear the uniqueness everyone says it had

[@illusorywall]

@@aiellamori One of the key differences is the smaller arrangements, in terms of the amount of instruments being used. This makes it unique from other Soulsborne games in that you can't name many tracks from Dark Souls and beyond that have like 8 or less instruments being used at a time. The production value of the original is rough for sure, but there's no reason you can't do an elegant, high-quality chamber music arrangement. That's a huge chunk of the uniqueness that was lost, they seem to no longer have the confidence that a boss theme can work unless its really "big" sounding. The original Storm King is unironically one of my favorite Souls themes, but I guarantee that it'll sound hilariously "boring" and simple to anyone unfamiliar with the original context. Same goes for the Fool's idol. You don't find much other Souls music like that and one of the goals of the remake should've been to examine and explore this aspect of it.

[@psychopath682]

@@illusorywall I still disagree with the statement making it "big" makes it boring. I think the issue lies way more in the melody and compositions which were changed to significantly. I'm pretty sure that you can make a "big" arrangement out of the OG's soundtrack without loosing its character. Imo they messed it up in that regard.

[@illusorywall]

@@psychopath682 It's just one of a few key characteristics. I agree you could get away with doing a bigger overall sound if they maintained the melodies better, but by missing *both* aspects it often strays too far from the OST. I would also defend saying that going for a bigger sound does make it more generic, though. It's not that a large orchestration inherently can't have anything unique about it, but bigger orchestrations are the norm for Souls boss themes, so in this aspect it moves away from what made the Demon's Souls score unqiue towards something more common and expected.

[@DeadKraken]

I think the worst example of that is the Maiden Astraea theme. New OST completely ruined the tragic vibe that original theme had, making everything sound a bit more conventional, like typical sad fantasy music. I don't have many problems with the design\visual modifications, but the music is just ass in most cases......

[@LeSpicey]

When it comes to the music, my main argument isn’t necessarily about the quality of it, not the amount of work and talent that was required to make it in the remake. Although I find the new music kinda messy and way too cluttered, I still think it’s not bad. My big issue is how the devs talked so much about how they kept the soul and the core of the music intact, when no one could listen to both soundtracks and think that’s the case.

[@lordanonimmo7699]

My problem is that it doesn't fit.

[@LeSpicey]

@@lordanonimmo7699 I do think it doesn’t really fit, especially in that it tells a completely different story from the original version.

[@lordanonimmo7699]

@@LeSpicey And that's what i am talking about,the music from the remake is telling something else from the original game,but the remake has the same gameplay and story from the original game,it doesn't fit.

[@LeSpicey]

@@lordanonimmo7699 I agrée on that, that’s why I have big problems with the devs claiming to have kept the souls of the original Also why I have some big issues with some redesigns

[@Kaucukovnik666]

@@LeSpicey I'm afraid a faithful update doesn't make sense from the commercial standpoint. Most fans were going to buy it anyways, even just out of curiosity, or for the sake of their otherwise complete Souls collections. The main financial incentive for a full remake was to attract audience that would have never liked the original in the first place. The team, or at least most of it, probably really wanted to make a faithful update of a game they respected, but task they were given was to bring an outdated product to modern standards and consumer expectations - make it epic, bombastic and overwhelming to the senses. Our customers deserve no less than a full orchestra. Get rid of the sickly, depressing darkness, make it all cool and sexy. Reduce ethereal, add visceral. Don't make people feel bad about killing certain characters, make them feel bad ass for caving their skulls in! Original mechanics and level design were kept as a token of authenticity - hey, the challenge is the same, you still have to git just as gud!

[@TwixtheFox]

Omg the deep red reference, that very much caught me off guard x3 It's an amazing movie!

[@No-sr5fb]

Imagine if a dev went through this and gave insight into the thought process behind some of these changes. Awesome video man awesome observations and clearly a lot of time was spent.

[@dheerajs.a3227]

Can't wait for episode 3.

[@ahricutii1948]

13:39 For me the much scarier jumpscare in DS3 is seeing first Wretch that you encounter hanging on the wall in a jail cell. Seeing that disfigured thing light up in the darkness caught me completely off guard and scared the crap out of me on my first few playthroughs of DS3, unlike the screaming hollows, who stopped being scary after the first time It got me. It also makes a bit more sense than the screaming hollow evironmentally, in the sense that it feels less like something put in the map as a cheap way to scare you.

[@themattbat999]

The Remake looks rather beautiful. I know some of the stylistic changes are not well accepted, but overall, i think Bluepoint did a good job

[@thefebo8987]

they did a terrible job

[@HHTwice]

@@thefebo8987 nah not really

[@thefebo8987]

@@HHTwice they did

[@HHTwice]

@@thefebo8987 *didn't It's alright I got you man

[@amberhernandez]

I was asked tonight to sit in with my neighbour's grandmother, because he's a nurse and is always on call. We had a great time eating dinner and chatting, and she had a scheduled bedtime. She asked if I could talk with her until she fell asleep, like her grandson usually does. Kid you not, I sat next to her for nearly _two hours_ talking about Demon's Souls. I explained what the game was, the time period and fantasy setting, and then getting into the technical details and differences between the original and remake. Most of what I described was from this video, as I was rewatching it earlier and it was fresh in my mind. I went _on and on,_ describing how the enemies would blow themselves up by explosive barrels with their flaming swords, the Red-eye Knight that can two-shot you, Ostrava and how you can force him off to fight for himself, and so much more. Eventually, she stopped chuckling at every other thing, stopped nodding, and then started snoring right as I was comparing Demon's Souls's loading zones to Bloodborne's (which she also heard plenty of). After giving her a minute, I took my leave and sat on the couch until my neighbour came back home. Thanks, Wall. I wouldn't have nearly as much factual trivia in my head to bore an old lady to sleep if I hadn't been watching you.

[@bulutcagdas1071]

The fake rooms inside the houses could be cubemaps with some trickery that they put on top of the glass. A cheap and clever way of adding more detail to the world without using more gpu and cpu power.

[@ToastCrossDimensions]

I hope that you’ll do more of these eventually. I thought they were really interesting.

[@bandt8699]

Thanks again for another amazing video. I'll enjoy every second of it

[@AmerikanRejekt]

4:45 i was actually pondering this kind of technique while watching a cutscene earlier today. Actually cool to see that that really is a practice for vfx.

[@CactuarKing]

I suspect that those double doors on the stable that open to mid air are a hay or loading door. This used to be a real thing, carts could pull up and have things loaded on or off them without them having to be lifted up to or off the cart. Ultimately that means heavier loads can be carried without the need for cranes to unload things

[@CRAgamer]

Seeing those lizards mocking you for not getting them makes me wish they'd put more sassy enemies in their games.

[@parrisdeluxe]

18:59 I know this is a meme but it gave me chills. Can’t wait to play the MGS games again when the collection drops.

[@illusorywall]

I was happy to hear MGS3 is getting a remake AND a remaster, and I was kinda jealous as a souls fan! I wish Demon's Souls got the same treatment. :)

[@andreworders7305]

21:48 I wonder why it was cut. It’s really cool that the remake devs went and looked into the cut stuff.

[@zuella4682]

I just now watched part 1 and 2 only to find out there’s no part 3. Hope to see a part 3 eventually 😅