The Neurotypicals are SO NOT OKAY

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DISCLAIMER: I am a second-year psychology student and a late-diagnosed #actuallyautistic individual. I am not a qualified healthcare professional.

[@imautisticnowwhat]

Are the neurotypicals okay today? You might also enjoy: Are Autism Moms REALLY That Bad?: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHyxdqqihqicbcU Hope you’re having a good week and not feeling like JUNK! 😂 Lots of love 💛🐥

[@ishaalimtiaz6715]

Day 2 of rudely asking where you get your BEAUTIFUL novelty earrings from

[@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos]

​@ishaalimtiaz6715 Day 1 of politely supporting your search for an answer to your inquiry.

[@etcwhatever]

​@@ishaalimtiaz6715 i have a thing for novelty earrings and dress shirts with unusual patterns so i feel your pain 😂❤😂

[@katzenbekloppt_mf]

If this Video would be my only clue - no, they are definitlynot okay. But I don't want to help them out🤪

[@ebwarg]

Does it just say “YES”?

[@crystalokeefe197]

"Please stop trying to make eye contact with me. I find it rude and distracting."

[@slamislife74]

no perceiving pls :(

[@etcwhatever]

I would think theyre s€xu@lly harassing me. 😂 and yes i find it rude indeed

[@HauntedCadaver]

I need this on a shirt 😂

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

​@@HauntedCadaver me too hahah

[@cammie49]

😂😂😂

[@triciad4100]

"If it bothers you that your friend doesn't make eye contact, just manipulate them until you've conditioned them to behave the way you want! Train them like a dog!" That's funny, because it bothers ME when people play mind games or dance around a subject instead of just saying what they mean. Should I be getting out the dog treats for them?

[@Theratsintrenchcoat]

And that same channel has a video on how to handle a micromanager. I mean, I guess it's good they're giving tips on how to handle themselves?

[@karoliinakilpelainen3325]

So dehumanizing for real

[@thagomizer4711]

It always comes back to ABA doesn’t it?

[@ErutaniaRose]

All these comments in this thread are FIRE. So many good points. 🔥

[@scurvofpcp]

That sounds like the type of activity that should have a safe word.

[@enneaf1676]

With almost every other species on earth, direct eye contact is interpreted as a sign of aggression

[@Crosshill]

plus baring ur teeth in such a fake smile, it doesn't look natural unless your teeth are showing because you're half laughing while trying to speak or something so interpreting it as a positive social token is weird to me

[@robo1513]

I'm pretty sure in a lot of eastern countries it's seen as aggressive too

[@Wonderhoy-er]

@@robo1513that’s very true actually

[@jazzkatt1919]

Even within our own species, in many cultures it's considered rude.

[@MakiPcr]

Many human cultures also feel that way, I think we're the anomaly

[@TyWorth]

Every one one of those tips from the first woman would have made me an anxious mess if someone did them to me. "Why are you smiling every time I glance at you, are you gonna kill me!?"

[@imautisticnowwhat]

😂

[@CoolSkeleton-nk7dk]

Yeah, her smile is fuckin creepy

[@nosuchanimal6947]

that smile gave me terminator 2 "learning how to smile" vibes 😬

[@GoingSwimmingly]

I’d just start staring back too hard and revalue why I’m even interacting with the clown in front of me- Or deadass look disturbed outright, _if you wanna start acting like a clown you may as well feel like it_

[@necordektox879]

Yeah that's not an incentive. It's just confusing and creepy. She was probably one of those weirdos who got extremely upset about not showing off her smile back when face masks were commonly worn.

[@thewrongsorcerer]

The whole eye contact thing is completely cultural. In Japan, if you tried to make eye contact the way people in English-speaking countries expect you to, they'd find it creepy and threatening

[@user-qu1yp8bh8c]

Yes! And this is true for so many things. Something that is seen as "healthy" normal and polite behaviour in one country can be seen as unpleasant and rude in another.

[@marocat4749]

And the overly fake smiles i would connect to cults, north koreastyle dictatorships, and the weird american over the top fake looking forced smiles. There ispolite and soft smiling, and there is that.

[@rosepuppy1984]

My dad has mentioned this. He’s a teacher at a school with a majority of Asian and black students. We also have many family friends who are Korean. He quickly realized the whole eye contact thing

[@MrIgorkap]

Same for a lot of Eastern Europe.

[@RobertDeCaire]

Americans in particular are absolute fiends about eye contact for some reason. And they have no idea how utterly bizarre their fixation on it is. And Americans are much more likely to do what this woman is doing and making everything about themselves, without any regard for anyone else's comfort or social standards. Murica!

[@Kassidar]

"it's basically looking over someone's head to see if there's someone better to talk to" I love when people make an observation and then take 1 of infinite interpretations of that observation (usually the first negative one they can come up with) and then treat it as if it's both correct and the only possibility.

[@RPGLover87]

In her case they probably are doing that, but anyone would she seems like she'd suck to hang out with.

[@linesch2569]

… and ironically it’s often the „explanation“ that would describe their thoughts if THEY were doing it. So it says a lot more about them than about the person across from them

[@alexandermorozov8593]

You ended your comment with a period mark. You are clearly very angry, aren't you?

[@Kassidar]

@@alexandermorozov8593 Not sure whether you mean me or RPGLover87 but have a quick look through the comments and you'll see a lot of people use proper punctuation. You are clearly rationalizing your emotional reaction, aren't you?

[@alexandermorozov8593]

@@Kassidar Bro, I'm just giving a joke example of exact thing you mention - of how people would treat the first conclusion that comes to their mind as the true one)

[@earthaforester3141]

If someone wants you to make more eye contact because they perceive it as a sign of attention and respect, they could just say so instead of doing weird passive aggressive things.

[@imautisticnowwhat]

Exactly 😂

[@samara.morgan]

But it's still rude and selfish to force people to look into your eyes.

[@jfm14]

Right? If folks want to communicate more directly with someone, they should just y'know... communicate directly.

[@jfm14]

​@@samara.morgan True, but bringing it up can at least open the conversation and give the other person a chance to explain that they're not comfortable with eye contact.

[@Flopsi80]

​@@jfm14 There is nothing to explain. I don't like it, they have to live with it like I have to live with all of their bullshit.

[@AllanPowell]

Imagine them doing this for any other disability. "My friend is paralyzed so when he is sitting for too long I start to pick up him and make him stand so we can be eye to eye when talking"

[@sprowett1402]

Lol I felt kinda awful finding this so funny. But I could picture it in my mind. 😂 As someone who has mobility issues along with autism… it made me laugh… especially at the thought of them flipping their head back and forth while trying to hold on to my waistband and holding me up while trying to meet MY eyes! 😂😂😂❤

[@stillnotstill]

They do that with other disabilities including physical ones. For example people will literally take mobility aids away from people....

[@juliaboskamp9666]

I have a feeling that somewere in the world some karen is already doing this

[@zellalaing5439]

I feel so bad this amused me.

[@TurbopropPuppy]

@@stillnotstill yeah like i've seen this all the time with people who need crutches also people literally use "using crutches" as a derogatory insult like can society not be slightly less ableist

[@BenjaminEarlMusic]

I like to explain to people that "i sometimes make eye contact with my ears." I often point an ear at someone when I'm listening to them because thats the organ that I hear with.

[@happytofu5]

That makes so much sense. I too turn my ear to people to be less distracted by other noises.

[@Vooblebooble]

I like that a lot. I'm deeply uncomfortable with making eye contact with people but I do make an effort to point my face at them to let them know I'm still focusing on them.

[@thiagokawano1618]

I sometimes do that too.

[@ruaoneill9050]

Me too!

[@ErutaniaRose]

Omg I never knew I needed this explanation. This is what I do!

[@Stain73]

I'm being attacked by demons. This will be my new answer if people ask why I am weird.

[@ButterflyRebekah]

But then, caring people would actually get worried for you and try to help you, pray over you, or give you tips about spiritual warfare.

[@Stain73]

@ButterflyRebekah I don't have that many religious people around me. But you are right maybe I should be careful when I know a person is a theist.

[@Unwit213]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@dmgroberts5471]

Just say "demons," and don't elaborate further. Let them try and work out the context themselves. Lol.

[@Stain73]

@@dmgroberts5471 That sounds awesome.

[@shining_valoka]

It is WILD that the most "severe" option is to communicate the issue and understand the reason the person doesn't look at you. You're suposed to assume everything. Direct communication is "the last resort". The neurotypicals are not okay at all.

[@sarahblack9333]

Behaving like a functioning adult is an *extreme last resort*

[@jclyntoledo]

Honestly this is so accurate 😂😭

[@mangledfoxy2052]

Ikr?? I’m the total opposite, I prefer to just be upfront about communication

[@GItoKeG]

Yeah...why the fuck is she making communication so complicated???? If someone seems distracted, you just ask, if they say they're good I'm like...aight cool *continues to talk*.

[@karowolkenschaufler7659]

and I have had conversations with neurotypical people who told me that talking to me was easier than talking to other people... I assume for exactly that reason. maybe even the neurotypicals get bullied by a very small group of specific neurotypicals. sort of at the end of the spectrum of being neurotypical. and they are pushing their wild ideas on everyone. but because those ideas are seen as the norm you should live up to... a lot of people don't dare to say that they actually don't like it. yes, this is a consperacy theory.

[@Skull_the_skellyton]

“Is everything okay? You’re not looking at me.” Why does that sound self-centered 😭

[@BologneyT]

Wow. You're right. It does. Obviously it's extremely common for people to look away when they're not comfortable in a culture of eye contact, but it sure does sound like that.

[@Katsuruka]

"Is everything okay? You're not looking at me," makes me want to reply: "Honey, you're just not my type!" Her attitude is so patronising, it makes me want to troll her rather than give her a more useful answer ("Staring at walls and ceilings is my way of listening intently.").

[@BologneyT]

​@@Katsuruka Is that the troll? ^^; If not, how is someone supposed to know that staring at walls and ceilings is your way of listening intently if no one's told them? (Sorry if I misinterpreted the troll ^^; )

[@robo1513]

@@BologneyT well the issue is the creepy eye contact lady assumes that the only reason someone might avoid eye contact is because their being rude. I don't think people should have to explain every reason for everything they do especially if it's somewhat subconscious like a lack of eye contact. I believe the other comment meant that she seems so rude and unpleasant to be around that they wouldn't want to give her the decency of the actual answer.

[@BologneyT]

​@@robo1513 Of course people shouldn't have to explain everything they do. That's what understanding is for and part of why peoples develop expectations. But communication breaks down when the two people don't speak the same language and that's kind of what happens whenever we send signals to each other that mean very different things to each of us. So much miscommunication and misunderstanding comes from that. Thanks for your thoughts on the part about other person's comment. :) But on the creepy lady rudeness isn't the only reason in that category where people avoid eye contact since a lot of people like that avoid eye contact when they're uncomfortable about something else, so that kind of person actually needs checking on if they're not looking at you ever.

[@JonBrase]

5:16 That smile comes across to me as either manic or deceptive. My thought wouldn't be "I'm being rewarded" so much as either "what's wrong with you?" or "what are you trying to get from me?".

[@lindac6919]

Yeah, that would be creepy to me. And like, who are YOU to reward me? Like throwing a fish to a performing seal.

[@Flopsi80]

She looks like a psychopath.

[@pemanilnoob]

There’s a reason smile dog is so terrifying

[@kobudo]

It would be even weirder if you asked “what are you trying to get from me” and they chose THAT moment to stop being manipulative, start being honest, and they reply, “eye contact.”

[@unluckyomens370]

i think another thing that would concern me too is like that is the start of my weird facial contortions that happen when im like overwhelmed with any "high" emotion like fear excitement shit like that. my face kinda just does it no matter what i do but like that smile ios the first part then it kinda flips sideways its hard to explain long story short id think theyre either very happy or they want me to shut up and die

[@BilliesCraftRoom]

That woman in red, I want to give her a card (conflict avoidance and my words hide). The card would say 'You expectations of me are yours, not mine. I did not choose them, I do not share them. Your expectations of me are NOT a to do list for me.'

[@mika161ultrainstinct]

Just commenting so I can find this again later

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

​@@mika161ultrainstinct Good idea! The card idea is excellent ❤ (heart)

[@heli0ns]

Yeah idk, I think a person who demands eye contact to that level as the woman in the red shirt insists.... just comes off as incredibly insecure or entitled. (Or both.)

[@clover7837]

@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023i do this in class when there is a substitute teacher. before attendance is called i’ll write a note saying what my legal name is but that i go by my preferred name. it’s so much easier for me than having to be deadnamed or going up and telling them myself.

[@mikemichaels4500]

Do I have your permission to print that card? I'm going to need quite a few copies.

[@CrowMaiden]

'give them a reassuring smile! [the least reassuring smile I've ever seen]' I would actively avoid eye contact if anyone smiled at me like that for making eye contact.

[@NonArtisticArtist-ari]

yeah like, are you threatening me???? what are you doing?? its scarY!

[@Grainofsand_gs]

As a neurotypical, same, that's just weird

[@like90]

That lady talking about eye contact is really aggressive, in my opinion. As an autistic, that would make me cry and would want to escape that conversation. It's just too much and I hate it

[@lindac6919]

She's a creep. Just think how much fun she must be at a dinner party! I'll bet the entire table hates her after 5 minutes, and they avoid her eyes and hope she leaves.

[@LilChuunosuke]

If she did even one of those things to me, I'd message her after lunch and let her know i don't think our friendship is going to work! It's so manipulative and selfish. Treating her "friends" like dogs to mold them into the personality she wants.

[@eri020]

she reminds me of really mean teachers i had growing up who didn’t understand that i had social anxiety and thought they could magically force me into being comfortable with the things they’re already comfortable with

[@iantaakalla8180]

That person looks like an animal ready to pounce if you don’t look at that person back. And honestly, considering how aggressive she is, she may as well.

[@lindac6919]

She sounds like No-Fun Friend!@@LilChuunosuke

[@mr.potatobee2983]

Imagine your in a conversation with that lady, and you look away for one second and then notice she's stopped talking and you look back to see that she's grinning maniacally for no reason.

[@Weaklytune]

I'd be so scared lol

[@Liandra24]

If this was on purpose, and they were doing it like that, I would do the same, but not even fake emotion on my eyes. And stare at them in the eyes without breaking eye contact. If the interaction must be painful I won’t be the only one who suffers.

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

Given that she's constantly wearing that carnivorous horse look, it's not surprising people don't want to make eye contact with her.

[@SiqueScarface]

Imagine a conversation between a German (constantly staring) and an American (constantly smiling back). It would be hilarious.

[@omgwhythough]

Lmfao

[@DawnDavidson]

My mother seriously thought that my allergies were caused by me “not standing against Satan”. And that my daughter’s ADHD was caused by “curly electricity” from compact fluorescents. It was that last one that finally got me to realize that no, my mom was not ok, and I didn’t need to listen to her about so many things.

[@Nabium]

oi I've got shellfish allergies, so you're telling me all I need to do is find this guy Satan and stand against him? like lean on him? where do I find this dude?

[@cubicinfinity2]

I'm sorry. Sometimes people are just ignorant and that's not their fault.

[@nobody08088]

I hope she can bring herself back to reality

[@DawnDavidson]

@@nobody08088 Sadly, that can never happen, since she now has dementia. But the good news is that she’s finally reverted to being very sweet and loving. There isn’t much left, but her sweet, funny self is still at the core. I’ll take it.

[@MaxOakland]

She sounds crazy. Where did she get this bizarre ideas?

[@StarkRG]

"They'll get so annoyed with you looking over your shoulder that they'll stop overhead gazing." If I ever become aware that you're attempting to subliminally manipulate my social interaction too much I'm not going to adjust my social interaction to match what you expect (because I won't know what you expect, just that you expect it to be different) I'll just stop having social interactions with you altogether. If there's something I'm doing that's distracting or annoying _say something_ and I'll try to accommodate you.

[@LovePikaMusic]

I'd definitely just stop looking in the general direction of that person's face. They clearly get distracted by it so i'll just look at my hands or something

[@SingingSealRiana]

This! If you make me wildly uncomfortable or percived traits I can't Help AS Rude I will spare US both the hassle and Just avoids you Like the plague

[@Mondomeyer]

You can always tell when a neurotypical isn't OK because they always want to make it your problem.

[@sarahw7616]

Projection

[@sharonjensen3016]

I'm over taking neurotypicals problems on board. I don't need it.

[@sksk-bd7yv]

Yes! It's so much easier to blaim us, since it's obviously allowed to bully us.

[@RobertDeCaire]

Someone should be researching a cure for neurotypicals. They're most of the reason why the world is the way it is.

[@rabbadidi7385]

They make it your problem but don't tell you what the problem is

[@CaptainChainsaw2]

The biggest problem with neurotypicals is the assumption that everyone is neurotypical

[@ishbelharris1857]

Absolutely. And even if they know you are autistic they still expect you to behave and interact neurotypical.

[@CaptainChainsaw2]

@ishbelharris1857 I recently self diagnosed and now realise why I've been treated so badly over the years. People really reveal who they are. Gaslight all my life too "What's so different about you?!?!?!?". Honestly to me it seems like they go about their day as if you don't exist even if you're physically present in their company. I used to think it's just "the cool kids" and that's how they treat others not in their circle but now I'm more convinced its just neurotypicals. They are like robots in a sense, programmed to disregard those that don't fit their worldview.

[@ishbelharris1857]

@@CaptainChainsaw2I finally got a diagnosis last year in an attempt to find out what's wrong with me and fix it before I get really old and need social care. I've been circumspect who I've told but by far the worst reaction was from my neurotypical mother and sister. They still think I'm difficult and weird, make no effort to understand, and expect me to keep masking hard so that they feel comfortable, regardless of the stress and mental exhaustion it causes me. It would be really great, even if just once, neurotypicals had to mask as ASD1 in their daily lives and interactions.

[@CaptainChainsaw2]

@ishbelharris1857 That's so sad that your mother and sister aren't helping. My family haven't exactly been much help so far. Has a diagnosis helped you? I noticed that there is discrimination against this condition in some countries. So getting a diagnosis may make it more difficult to move country. I'm not convinced a diagnosis would help at the moment. I'm not sure if I ever really masked, guess that's why its caused me problems all my life. Dating advice like "just be yourself" never worked, I wonder why. Advice that came from neurotypicals.

[@rhettbaldwin8320]

The CDC estimates that the world wide population of people with ASD is 1%. So neurotypical people assume everyone is neurotypical because 99% of people ARE.

[@heartroll8719]

The eye contact from that woman scares me. If someone looked at me like that in real life, I’d be scared.

[@irisrosenicholas5339]

Ikr

[@sharonjensen3016]

I think my two youngest nephews would be scared of her- and they're not even autistic.

[@heartroll8719]

@@sharonjensen3016 I think any kids would lol

[@morgan8290]

I was already scared just watching her on the video....

[@aliceinwonderland8314]

I once got told off by a teacher for not looking up enough. 5 minutes later she tells me off for not writing any notes.

[@connellythompson7121]

... bruh- *facepalm*

[@necordektox879]

Sounds like she just had a bone to pick or was on a power trip.

[@unluckyomens370]

oh my god i had a professor in college who was like WHEN IM TEACHING YOUR ATTENTION IS ON ME NO BOOKS OR ELECTRONICS so i didnt take out my laptop for notes because like she said not to then later on in the year she was like "well you never take notes in my class" i just kinda sat there a little stunned I was withdrawing anyway so i just let it be

[@aliceinwonderland8314]

@@necordektox879 I lean towards bone to pick cos I think she realised not to tell me off for that again. The senior staff of that school, however, definitely had power trips. One time I was an hour late to school and had one of them tell me all about how I should get up earlier. Then all the people who don't walk as fast as me and we're also sitting on the train just outside the station for an hour(about 1/5 to 1/4 of the students) came in. Just slunk off without another word. Then there was that time we had a model UN thing, I put in the feedback I found it unaccessible and here are some suggestions to help with that. Got called into sixth form leader's office, got told they put a lot off effort into it and I was rude, started crying, then he had a class he needed to get to so I should clean up in the bathroom. Got found by a girl in the year above crying on the floor of the bathroom, got sent to the nurse room were I went a bit mute. Missed physics. He kept a wide distance from me after that, pretty easy since he never taught me. Never apologised or anything.

[@iahelcathartesaura3887]

That sounds like my mother. Call my wife. But she tries. She has struggles of her own but thank you for sharing this, because many people need to notice that's the pattern they're in with someone invasive and dysfunctional.

[@Monday-Lope]

" Not staring at me for the entire time we are spending together is disrespectful to me " honey are you sure you don't have a narcissism issue?

[@elaineb7065]

Me: stares at her the entire time in a big old staring contest, like my childhood Her: "Stop staring; it makes me uncomfortable!!!" Me: "Then don't force people to make eye contact, especially at the dinner table, where the focus is the food"

[@theedgeofoblivious]

I posted in the r/ShowerThoughts a post entitled "LPT: Autistic people are used to being excluded, and will not assume that you telling them about an activity is an invitation. In order to invite an autistic person, you need to directly say "You should come," or "Do you want to come?" or "Let's go."" You might want to check it out, because there's a huge discussion about how NTs invite people without inviting people.

[@miahan8988]

I have adhd (and C-PTSD) and I just realised that my NT colleague asked me to go on a bike trip with her friends. She started to ask me if I have a bike (I don’t, I have roller blades), then she said the date they’re going to have that trip while looking at me with what I now think was expectation and I said “ok, have fun” 💀

[@theedgeofoblivious]

@@miahan8988 It is painful. I think there was one time I may have been invited to something almost exactly five years ago, and I think it's pretty much the only time I have been invited to something. I love to cook, and this person knew that. Before telling me about her plans to an international food market to walk around on the upcoming weekend, the person said "You might like it," and after telling me that, my response was "Oh that sounds really fun. I should go some time." And the saddest thing was I had THE WORLD'S BIGGEST crush on this person.

[@DeathnoteBB]

@@miahan8988And they’re always shocked we don’t invite ourselves! Like I was taught crashing someone’s activity is rude!

[@FlamingCockatiel]

@@DeathnoteBB Definitely the last part, especially after being the target for years in school. I asked if I could go to a classmate's party in tenth grade, as she had been inviting almost everyone else in the class. She said, "I guess." Later I found out that she had said I had invited myself over. Happy(?) ending; I didn't have a ride, so I didn't go. The thing is, at the time I was so shy but did want to socialize on occasion; I'm not the most gregarious person, but neither am I a misanthrope.

[@d.d.d.a.a.a.n.n.n]

I explicitly don't assume I'm invited unless they literally ask, because I've had instances where I thought I might have been invited, only to realize that no, a friend was just telling me about something and I wasn't invited to join. NT also do that, so it's hard to guess which it is

[@SanityVideo]

That first video is the creepiest most manipulative advice and it triggered all my trauma from how I was treated as a kid.

[@LilChuunosuke]

Yeah she reminded me of my abusive mother. Turns aggressive the second she's not the center of attention and makes you feel guilty for normal human behavior. If she was my friend, she'd only get to try that once before i ended the friendship

[@Alba-pc6bz]

That wouldn't be friendship to begin with.

[@noprosthesisforyoursoul]

100% same

[@whssy]

100% a toxic narcissist.

[@ellecapone1337]

Eye contact makes me wildly, *viscerally* uncomfortable. I hate that society expects this from people. :(

[@wouldntyouliketoknowwesath7789]

If someone does that shit when im not making eye contact, imma just shut down completely. The whole saying "oh i love that!" When eye contact is made sounds so horribly patronizing. Like "good job buddy! You made eye contact! You're such a big boy!"

[@juli5945]

If someone said that to me I'd want to do the complete opposite and not look at them at all, lol

[@thetea4093]

THIS!!! I’m autistic and actually got called “good girl” when I didn’t push someone touching me away

[@cassandrabelyeu2419]

@@thetea4093 I hate when people disrespect personal space and boundaries that deeply.

[@etcwhatever]

@@thetea4093 its harassment. Im so sorry you had to endure such a thing.

[@sarahw7616]

That's because they are not holding space for you. (Respecting you and maintaining boundaries) They are trampling over anything that makes you uncomfortable to make themselves feel better. =CREEP.

[@SaulsFamily]

The whole eye contact thing -- OMG if someone looked where I was looking or psycho-smiled at me, I would probably stop talking and try to find a way to escape the entire situation in the least rude way possible out of complete panic, and then never talk to them again.

[@irisrosenicholas5339]

I would definitely do that too

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

SAME!!!

[@foxliasgriffinYT]

reactions to my actions can scare me and intimidate me, same reason id end up not studying at home or play instruments doesnt mattrr if positive or negative, its stressful to have that pressure and anxiety you get

[@LadyLenaki]

I would think they were planning to murder me, leave and block them if their behavior shifted that dramatically and freakishly. I don't know if I'd leave politely or just leave as fast as possible.

[@dmgroberts5471]

It almost like they are expecting you to somehow understand the subjective reasons why they are doing those things, like you could read their mi- Oh...oh no...that's what they are doing, isn't it?

[@LimeGreenTeknii]

8:04 Are we sure she's not autistic? She really nailed that relatable feeling of saying something thinking it's positive and not realizing you committed a major social faux pas.

[@chocoboko123]

Its kind of interesting that autism is associated with difficulty communicating and poor social skills, but neurotypical society has so many weird hoops and thought gymnastics involved in everyday interactions that everyone is expected to just know, and outright telling someone what you want or need in a conversation is frowned upon, like you're expected to read each other's mind.

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

Is not the same to know something as being concious of it than just doing it. I do not have to think about reading the other person’s body language. If they are sad and I look them in the eyes I would feel the sadness. As I study psychology I can now understand everything that goes into it, but in the interaction I do not have to know anything I just do things or feel things without even realizing it most of the time

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

I would agree that being upfront would be easier on everyone though

[@ic5889]

It's partially a cultural thing. When I moved from the Netherlands to Sweden it was quite a shock how indirect swedes are! Its a good thing I was ateenager at the time so social faux pas was a bit more accepted. But that directness is definitely a part of dutch culture I didnt appreciate enough until I was removed from it. Now to get the rest of the world on board...

[@ichbinben.]

It's like everyone's an olympic sprinter and when you just walk you have "difficulty moving".

[@chocoboko123]

​@@ic5889 That's true, I am thinking about it from an American cultural perspective since that's all I know.

[@blueredingreen]

4:50 The weirdest part of this is that she literally acknowledges that some people really struggle with making eye contact. Like, she literally admits that she thinks she "deserves" something some people would really struggle to provide, and that them not doing it is "super dismissive and rude". How entitled can you be...

[@zyqa]

I hope she realizes that we dont enjoy having to do that either... Id love more than anything to be able to stare strangers directly in the eyes without an ounce of anxiety present.

[@ExplosionMare]

Wait til she goes to a place where eye contact is considered rude.

[@pemanilnoob]

Like it’s SO hypocritical She’s literally just giving you a tutorial on how to be rude and dismissive

[@Alba-pc6bz]

5:05 😂😂😂 absolutely! That s some natural friendly behaviour, wtf 😂😂😂 You don t want to talk to that mad woman. I would wonder what is her deal... How would anyone understand what she even wants 😂😂😂

[@Alba-pc6bz]

7:45 "you do not deserve my eyeballs" 😂😂😂 Nah, I ll keep them to myself 😂😂😂 Honestly, I would end up staring at her, like not daring to BLINK, wtf. Then, i would politely finish dinner. Then, I d ghost her 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[@CosmiccLight]

I used to visually stim with lights as a child and one of my teachers thought I was rolling my eyes at her. She confronted me with a bad attitude and was yelling at me and stuff. I ended up crying.

[@Underhownd]

I literally yelled "That's ABA!" at the same time you did when that woman was talking about rewarding eye contact!

[@cynthiaroark1778]

As a retired Special Education teacher who is also late diagnosed and on the spectrum, I have to say that I was always appalled when various therapists felt they had to force my autistic students to make eye contact. I could see how uncomfortable it made the kids and never understood the point of it. Of course these people found me “weird” too and questioned my place as a teacher. I had to retire early from a career I loved. The kids loved me and I was a great teacher, but other teachers thought I was weird and that I should not be teaching. Teaching became too stressful for me because of these people.

[@therealpbristow]

That's tragic. I'm sorry both for your loss and for the children's.

[@martinmckee5333]

That sounds very similar to my experience. I had to leave teaching because I wasn't accepted by the teachers or administration, not because I wasn't a good teacher. Also late-diagnosed. And also a former Special Education teacher that was often annoyed by how my autistic students were treated. I generally push back against the claims that the educational system is fundamentally broken... but there are certainly issues.

[@therealpbristow]

@@martinmckee5333 Thankyou (both) for the years you put in.

[@jclyntoledo]

​@@martinmckee5333That's interesting bc I'd say that sounds like confirmation that the system is broken 🤔 but you obviously have more experience than me

[@martinmckee5333]

@@jclyntoledo I would certainly say that the school I was last at was broken. Others are much better. However, my biggest issues, all through my career, always came from parents wanting me - as the teacher - to "fix" things when they were unwilling to put in effort themselves, or support a school board that would actually give us teachers the resources we needed. If the US education system is broken... it's because that's the way people want it, not because there's just something inherently wrong with the ideas it's based on. But, to be fair, I generally feel pretty protective of teachers (having been in the classroom for fifteen years, I understand the struggle). Almost none of that protectiveness transfers to administration. So maybe I'd agree it's broken at that level.

[@jellyzimmermann9688]

im autistic and i find smiles(with teeth) vaguely threatining i do not know why but if eye contact lady tries that on me i will just freeze up

[@mandarinsandclementines2997]

Personally teeth smiles aren't scary, but teeth smiles with FULLY OPEN UNMOVING EYES?? terrifying!

[@La.Le.Lu.]

Neurotypicals are sooo weird to me 😂😂😂 what a good day to be autistic

[@RynTheWitch]

100% agree 😂 proud autistic!!

[@babbagebrassworks4278]

I was in my 40s before I found out I was an Aspie. "Oh' I am the weird one and they are normal". Here I found my tribe.

[@kryssalou]

literalllyyyyyyyy

[@katzenbekloppt_mf]

Yeah!!!

[@uniquechannelnames]

​@MagentaSoulstar as for the straightforward thing, NTs can say something that doesn't sound straightforward but has a lot of subtext that if understood, is straightforward. I know that's exactly what straightforward isn't but yeah it can be the exact kind of subtext that autistic people would totally miss. Secondly idk any of these people, but how do you know all those people were NT too? I'm ADHD and I can read people quite well and socialize with a wiiiide range of people comfortably but it can still be very hard. Are they just an NT, narcissitic, closet or fragile narc, ASPD, sociopathic, pathological liar, borderline, or a MIX yay!!

[@JhericFury]

Also, aside from autism, I look around a lot in a public place because I have anxiety.

[@HolyKoolaid]

ADHD here, can very much relate to the eye contact thing.

[@micheller3251]

People who force you to look at them when talking absolutely won't tolerate you looking away tend to be a major red flag in my experience. Same kind of person who will get offended if you don't like the exact same things they like or if you say no to litterally anything they ask.

[@steggopotamus]

Yeah, toxic vibes for sure.

[@markigirl2757]

It’s mostly authoritative figures that do this bc it’s their way to exercise control and enjoy the power trip they have. (teachers supervisors ceos as some examples). As someone who worked with tons of people on a daily in a customer service jobs (I was not good socializing and used that job to improve) I come to the conclusion most people aren’t like this it’s jsut those who are insecure and have perceived power over people that won’t talk back that are like this.

[@jessicaburrows6596]

*cough. Narcissist! *Cough cough

[@uniquechannelnames]

That's an ego thing. NTs expect a little eye contact because it's a major portion of their line of communication. But to demand it like a dictator is a whooole other thing and is toxic af

[@grae75]

Yes, these are more than likely narcissists or psychopaths. It's about half the people in the office I work. The other half are normal NTs, who don't try to make me feel bad about my communication style just because it doesn't fit perfectly with theirs, so some communication is possible with normal/good NT people. With the toxic types, it's a waste of time and it's better really to keep interactions with these to the bare minimum.

[@Steve13C]

Ugh, I hate the idea that demons are involved in either neurodiversity or things like depression.

[@cassandrabelyeu2419]

Yeah, putting it into peoples’ heads to call autists “junk” sounds much more like their speed.

[@etcwhatever]

Im autistic and Catholic and i call bs. 👍 Some people are just different. Neurodivergent. Mental issues. Physical issues. Actually the guidelines for exorcism state that a person needs to be cleared by a psychiatrist before an exorcism is considered. The hypothesis of demonic action comes only after natural explanations are ruled out. So yes that guy in the video is ignorant.

[@livliveart]

And transness (and being queer in general) too... it's such a gross response, truly vile 😭

[@thesaltycat9493]

Yeah, literally. Like, I'm religious and no, my God *doesn't* make junk because I'm *not* junk. And neither is literally anyone else. We are not junk for being neurodivergent, we are not junk for being queer, and (for those that believe in the specific type of higher power that this man was discussing) demons/Satan did *not* make us to be this way. I hate when people try to act like we're lesser than, or like God wouldn't love/create us, when Jesus' entire thing was *literally* LOVE! It's so irritating. Anyways, apologies for my little religious rant. I'm just in the middle of watching that section of the video currently and it's extremely frustrating.

[@Hezkun]

​@@thesaltycat9493it's the biggest reason I'm atheistic rn, centralized religion and people using it for ill intent really traumatized me away from that sort of thing However, I do really respect people who practice faith in their own terms, as if a god did exist, I would imagine a personal connection would be the best type of one to share with such a deity

[@Eddygeek18]

I consider VR gaming/use similar to neurotypical reality experience. I use VR quite often and love that i can visit places and experiencing things i'd be too terrified of in real life, having an NPC be talking to you while you're listening but wandering off looking at other things and not being judged for it is pretty amazing. Not to mention listening to a live band, watching a dance performance, or exploring a country you'd love to visit, surrounded by people but knowing nothing can go wrong and no one can see you or judge is a dream come true really. I imagine the comfort i feel in VR is the comfort neurotypicals feel in social situations or everyday life

[@stripey7303]

In third grade my teacher kept accusing me of "daydreaming," a term I'd never heard before, and I didn't know what it meant. In fact I was hearing everything she said. I guess she said this because I wasn't making eye contact. She also tried to make me write with my right hand instead of my left until my parents had a word with her. I was only diagnosed fifty years later.

[@Stitchthecat]

If you think you need to train your friend like a dog cause they won't look at you, do them a favor and just don't be friends with them. If you demand eye contact cause you think you deserve respect from everyone around you, you have to have a real talk with yourself and realize you aren't respecting the other person's fear/choice/etc to not look at you in the eyes. Respect is earned not just given.

[@bethanykittok3903]

❤

[@Volkbrecht]

That's not how things work. In terms of respect, in polite society nobody starts at zero. There is a sort of basic respect everyone is owed, otherwise society couldn't operate in structures bigger than the stone age tribe, where everyone know everyone else and their merits. Instead of making up excuses that don't apply, confront the actual issue: autists aren't able to comply to the conventions of non-verbal communication, so additional verbal communication is needed to stop misunderstandings. It's tedious, but it's the only viable way to establish a coexistence based on mutual understanding.

[@TearfulMoon]

It's just my personal experience but people who insist on smiling at me while staring me down with big eyes are usually unpleasant, selfish and manipulative.

[@Dreykopff]

Neurotypicals are not okay, and that's okay...apparently. I remember an incident where someone found it weird that I looked at my drink instead of their face for the cheers gesture, and I legit can't look at their face because I'd be afraid to spill my drink when not looking at the way I'm holding it. Monotropism in a nutshell!

[@anzaia2164]

In germany, not looking someone in the eye while cheers-ing means 7 years of bad sex, or bad luck (depending on what's more important to you haha). So my friends and I half-jokingly make it a point to never miss the eye contact. The easiest way to do it is to just look at your glass until it's about 1cm away from the other, then quickly making eye contact at the exact moment the glasses hit, and looking back at the glass immediately. Also, considering monotropism, you can just stop moving the glass while you look away, and have them close the distance. Edit: Of course, you don't have to make eye contact while cheers-ing at all, if you don't want to. I just thought I'd leave some tips here in case anyone does want to, but struggles with the problem you described. Don't want this to come across as another person telling you to "just do it", haha. Have a wonderful day/ a restful sleep!

[@lenas4342]

​@@anzaia2164 yes, I always follow that rule and I get pretty offended when the other one doesnt xD

[@NekoChanSenpai]

Your supposed to make eye contact? That's the norm? But then how come on tv the camera points to the cups? Checkmate, neurotypicals.

[@AttenuatedNecronym]

Welp. Til that i cheers incorrectly. Oh well i guess.

[@Dreykopff]

@@anzaia2164I am from Germany, and I guess I got infinite years of bad luck and no sex then, what a time to be alive. They totally didn't invent that to bully or explain autistic lives. Never heard this though, it's only 7 years of bad luck for breaking a mirror in my memories... Anyway, thanks for the hacks, haha. I only see people with drinks like 3 times per year or something (and I sometimes don't pick alcohol because it's just not my thing), that makes both "practice" as well as actually thinking of these things really difficult. But hey, it's my birthday in 9 days, that sounds like a decent opportunity to try and rewire some mental muscles.

[@K-tw4wb]

I would never talk to someone again if they acted like that first lady

[@uniquechannelnames]

Oh you just KNOW someone like that always be schemin', big or small.

[@_lil_lil]

I don't even know if I'm autistic but people like that just seem fake AF. Yeah no, I don't trust you, you could be perfectly nice, or maybe if we get close you will kill my whole family, I don't know, you're too fake to read.

[@laurenbrawner1814]

I like tone tags but for some reason "/s" makes me confused sometimes because I don't always remember if it means serious or sarcastic lol

[@jegaevi7371]

During a uni seminar I was extremely overstimulated, exhausted and anxious as it was my 4th 1 and a half hour long class that day, so I couldn't look up at the teacher at all. He called on me and asked me "Can you tell me what is a sign that shows someone is paying attention to you?" I wasn't on my phone or anything, I was taking notes.

[@imautisticnowwhat]

I'm sorry - that must've made the day feel even more exhausting 😞

[@sophieplumeridge3253]

So taking notes in a class is considered rude now? Is the teacher expecting you to gain knowledge from it being beamed to you through eye contact?😂 but really, that’s insane to me. Sorry that happened to you

[@zyqa]

​@sophieplumeridge3253 If that was the case id never learn anything, I forget everything that happened throughout the day as soon as I get home

[@Sh12pen]

​@@sophieplumeridge3253literally can't win 😢

[@Link-dx1lx]

I'm so glad that where I live the vast majority of university teachers doesn't give a shit if you're paying attention or honestly even if you attend. As long as you're not being disruptive, it's fine. I hafe one prof who doesn't want people to use their phones, but that's the only thing, he didn't mind me crocheting during the lecture.

[@elainelouve]

ADHD here, when I say "we need to hang out some time" I really mean it, and look forward to it enthusiastically, but then forget about the whole thing, and 2 years later message you as if no time has passed.x)

[@terryflynn6927]

OMG! That's me too! Though sometimes the reason I don't follow through is I'm worried they don't really want to.

[@velocity1238]

So you want eye contact. Proceeds to stare into your soul unblinking and won't stop. Dont look away. Is this not what you wanted?

[@hoodiegal]

The pizza thing at the end is baffling to me. "I'm going out to get pizza" - nowhere in there is there an invitation for me to tag along. This person is sharing something about their plans that they're excited about. I might say something like "nice! what's your favorite toppings?" because that's a way to engage with what they just shared with me, and show interest in what they're saying. but like. that's not an invitation. "I'm going out to get pizza, do you wanna tag along?" - that's an invitation. Neurotypicals are weird sometimes.

[@sarahr8311]

"I'm going to get pizza" could also mean "I'm politely ending the conversation by saying I'm going to go do something else". So confusing!

[@dioxideuniversal]

yeah i think that person just kinda sucks in particular. say what you want

[@annamayrand5483]

As far as I know, I’m NT and in no way would I ever assume I’m being invited to something unless someone outright asked me to come join…do people actually “passively invite” people this way? That sounds like a set up for so much confusion regardless of neurotype!

[@kateshiningdeer3334]

MUCH better to say "I'm going out for pizza - want to come along?" It doesn't make it "a date", it just makes it "friends going for food", at least in MY book. But people have gotten really weird about dating in the last few years, too...

[@kateshiningdeer3334]

@@annamayrand5483 Yes, yes they do. And it IS... It's so frustrating sometimes!

[@tubebrocoli]

omfg... me coming from a country where making eye contact with a stranger means "i am REALLY REALLY mad at you right now" hearing her talk of "eye contact problems" geeez....

[@matthewtalbot6505]

What country, if you don’t mind? That sounds like an interesting cultural habit to come about when most of the world seems to have gone the opposite direction.

[@zyqa]

Leaving a comment here so I can eventually find out which country that is so I can move there and appear as a neurotypical

[@goodpeople25]

@@matthewtalbot6505 You know most of the world but don't know what country it could be? You're buying into problematic assumptions and language about cultures outside your own bias.

[@robokill387]

@@matthewtalbot6505 well, actually no, the "importance" of eye contact is very much a Euro-american thing, it's far less important in most of the world and is often considered rude unless you have a certain closeness to the person. In fact, it isn't even that important in parts of Europe even, and America places way more importance on it that most of Europe.

[@tubebrocoli]

I'm from Brazil, São Paulo specifically. You don't just make eye contact with anyone like that, definitely not with strangers on the street or public transit, but even with i.e. cashiers etc... you make only brief eye contact. In conversations you do make eye contact but quite a lot less than in other cultures and places I visited so far. Funnily enough, while we make a lot less eye contact due to how it can be perceived as intimidation, or just plain creepy, we're very liberal with hugs, cheek kisses, touching another person's shoulder, and tactile / personal space stuff in general. Also, by far the most contrast with the eye contact thing I felt was the couple of times I visited the US midwest, the eye contact experience there was horrible for me, people lock their eyes on you and **glare** at you, it triggered my fight or flight response every time, because I instinctively felt that was intimidation, leading to me averting my eye contact as a reflex, which they interpreted as me not reciprocating their eye contact, and being suspicious of me, and that was awful every single time.

[@scubadiva666]

When I was a kid, I was unable to make eye contact with anyone. In HS, my friend Letitia made it a point to train me to make eye contact when I was talking to someone; she'd tell me, "You're not doing it," when I slipped up and let my gaze fall. This reminds me again that there were *so many signs* in place to tip people off-such as my oblivious teachers-that something was seriously wrong with me.

[@JhericFury]

Aside from it being an accessibility tool, "[Tone tags] are patronising, like you think they won't understand" Yes, I've been on the internet before, someone won't understand

[@LilChuunosuke]

I've got in so many arguments online both before and after tone tags became a thing where we both read each other's text tone as aggressive & responded accordingly, only to clarify the intended tone, realize neither of us wanted to fight, and immediately resume the conversation cordially. Its an extremely useful tool for a form of communication where tone is near impossible to convey.

[@JhericFury]

@@LilChuunosuke same, you're like three replies deep before you realise you're on the same side.

[@randomhuman_05]

No fr- and like, for me, tone tags are because *I’M* bad at conveying the proper tone and don’t want to be misunderstood. Like, I don’t have to use tone tags, but it’s for everyone’s benefit when i do😭

[@juliefore]

I’d never heard of tone tags before. I googled what they are. They’ve evolved from the indicators from the 1990’s and early ’00’s, but I love how easy they are now and will be embracing them whole heartedly. Heading out to print off a list of them. 😊

[@something-from-elsewhere]

@@randomhuman_05 Yea 90% of the time if I add a tone indicator it's because I'm afraid/concerned I've been ambiguous and want to clarify my intent (tho sometimes tone indicators won't really help me convey what I'm trying to like I have to have rewritten this comment maybe a dozen times now -w-' )

[@bradiedean7466]

Yeah when my baby brother was dying as a baby (he recovered don't worry!) and we didn't know why a lady from their church pulled my mom aside to tell her she must have an evil stronghold in her heart bc god was hurting my brother to get her to repent. Despicable. There were, however, some nuns who somehow found out (we never knew how) there was a baby on the other side of the state whose parents were being told to say their goodbyes, so the entire convent drove 4+ hours north to put their hands on my brother and my parents and prayed for hours for a miracle. A few hours after they left the doctor's finally figured out what was wrong with him and were able to start treatment immediately. Now he's a grown man with a family of his own, and my parents have never forgotten those nuns or how much better they loved on a family of strangers they'd never see again compared to a lady they had trusted in their own community

[@KoolKid33]

That's wonderful that he is ok! I'm so sorry about the church lady. I hope your all doing great!

[@BrickNewton]

That reminds me of the story of the lead singer of Tool. His mum was very religious and did a lot of stuff for the church and community. She suffered a stroke and fell into a coma for 27 years when he was 11. He watched the church parishioners she loved and helped turn their back on her as she must have done something to deserve it. His song Wings for Marie explains it so well in song.

[@cassandrabelyeu2419]

I’m sorry for the lady who was so awful, but I’m very glad about the ladies who took the time and effort to try to help.

[@etcwhatever]

I feel quite good in the Catholic Church. In my area the liturgy is celebrated in a calm way and the chanting is traditional. It doesnt aggravate or trigger my sensory issues. The repetitive nature of the Mass is soothing for me. Ive to a protestant Church once and the loud shouting and singing disrupted me. The Orthodox are very traditional and therefore also not stressful for me.

[@Amy-ky5wr]

Thank God for well-educated and experienced doctors, hey. Or thank the doctors directly, they've put in an awful lot of hard work to develop their skills and knowledge.

[@Moonstruck_Arrow]

I don’t *always* struggle with eye contact, but when I do it’s like trying to force two magnets together the wrong way. You manage to hold it on target for like a second before it gets deflected off to the side. Also, if I found out someone was trying to “train” me to make eye contact that would instantly make it 100x worse.

[@shadowdancer909]

I relate so much to this.

[@cassiusvoidkin]

I'm taking an extremely ableist "Interpersonal Communications" class right now in college. There is a lot about eye contact and other very NT American centric communication stuff. The textbook says that every culture thinks eye contact is important and that it means "trustworthiness" universally. It's not at all universal. I hate it here.

[@LunarOverdrive]

i love seeing people talk about how "woke" colleges are and then hearing about stuff like this that completely contradits that.

[@kierstenburtz8442]

​@@LunarOverdrive oh yeah! The most ableist class I had was an intro to psych class. The most racist class I had was an intro to sociology class. The most sexist, homophobic, etc. class I had was a class on television as popular culture. All the classes people claim are indoctrinating young people into "woke" mindsets are actually filled with horribly bigoted professors a lot of the time. I can't tell you how much my blood fucking boiled when we started talking about ADHD (my brand of neuro-spicy) in my intro psych class and the Prof actually said "8 year old boys who can't sit still in class" and meant it to be an honest example and not an example of ADHD stereotyping.

[@VegetaPrinceOfSaiyans]

Man in my psych intro class there was no discussion about abnormalities. It was online though so no lecture to talk about non curriculum things ​@@kierstenburtz8442

[@happysloth3208]

I took intercultural communications, I learned that in other cultures eye contact is not normal. It also talked about understand differences in communication.

[@happysloth3208]

⁠@@kierstenburtz8442 ironic, when I took intro to sociology, we learned a lot about anti racism. But honestly for the ADHD thing that type of stuff doesn’t bother me. Most of the literature nowadays is shifting towards including women and people of color. Edit: I have been diagnosed with ADHD, and I’ve dealt a lot with people even psychologists not being properly educated on ADHD. A lot of times that’s just how they were taught, and as someone’s who taking neuroscience courses the narrative is shifting away from that.

[@ObsidianCrane]

Woman on screen for 9s: Her staring into the camera makes me uncomfortable. The releif when you cut back to yourself was palpable.

[@ruisenor8993]

Felt that

[@Andreamom001]

12:36 I’m a Christian, and that “preacher” infuriates me. Autistic people, people with Down Syndrome, people with birth defects, people with spina bifida, people with anything…they are not “junk”!!!!! Yes, I believe God made them, and yes, I believe God loves them-just as they are! We all have something to deal with in life, some challenge, and we all are valuable, we all are precious to God. ETA: Anyone with a basic knowledge of Christian theology knows there are other reasons people have challenges in life. We live in a fallen world (meaning it is imperfect and a place where things go wrong-in contrast to heaven where there will be no sickness, sorrow, loss, misunderstanding, division…)

[@SingingSealRiana]

Literally nothing gives christianity a worse Image then christianity itself . . . The catholic church trying to keep the Image pristine and believers acting Like critique IS a sin do more damage then aknowlaging and punishing Bad behavior would . . . . I Always feel sorry for the reasonable people WHO get a Lot of positive Things through their belief and Just want the best for everyone for getting tainted by association with sometimes outright monsters WHO abuser Religion as an excuse and shield

[@a_little_demon]

​@@SingingSealRiana the religion itself is not the problem. it's some awful people that follows the religion, that are the problem. don't blame the religion, blame the awful people.

[@skillcheese]

@@a_little_demonI agree. Same with Islam, although I theologically disagree with Islam, as a Christian myself, their religion is not harmful. However, many people who follow it do harmful things. Although I would argue that Christianity has done significantly more harm throughout history, especially now with the rise of Christian nationalism in the US. It’s scary out here

[@Vooblebooble]

It's especially wild since I'm pretty sure Jesus's whole thing was being openly against treating other human beings as "junk." He flipped a table about it and everything.

[@optbraindmg]

Honestly I find people who smile a lot, especially seemingly unprompted, really creepy, smiling at me as a "reward" for eye contact would most likely have the opposite of the intended effect.

[@jclyntoledo]

Yes! I legit start staying away from them

[@felderup]

reward eye contact with a smil... omg, why are you grimacing at me, are you going to hurt me?! stop, please d... oh, well, you really need to learn how to smile, cause that is scary.

[@irisrosenicholas5339]

Her smile is scary and unnerving

[@LilChuunosuke]

Her smile doesn't even meet her eyes at all its so soulless and unnerving

[@iris1568]

She just gives serial killer vibes with smiles like that 😅

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

Of course this is wrong when talking about adult people but this is exactly how eye contact becomes a thing when allistic people are babys. It is not concious but the caretaker smiles to the baby when they make eye contact and that is how they learn is an important thing in our culture. Later the same will happen with other social clues as the social smile

[@felderup]

@@anainesgonzalez8868 yes, but... we are talking about doing it to adults. for kids, depending on how they respond to facial cues, it could merely be confusing or scary, many children, you wait till they can understand some spoken words and explain it to them, and that's the only way they'll understand.

[@drrodopszin]

Thank you for telling us what's going on inside! I have several friends who were creatively avoiding eye contact and I never understood - though I never tried to "train" nor "confronted" them. The way she talks is similar to how narcissistic, driven people want to dominate people around them, while the task is to just simply ask "how are you?".

[@samara.morgan]

The eye contact woman is such a creep. And very ableist.

[@dorothyallspice1862]

Yeah, and she’s scaring me. She has an intimidating aura.

[@samara.morgan]

@@dorothyallspice1862 She would be a hellish parent.

[@pemanilnoob]

@@dorothyallspice1862probably that ginormous gummy smile

[@ixykix]

Top level discrimination and ableism!

[@applechoco483]

And the way her eyes are moving around that energetically. Not to mention that her face doesn't match her calm tone of voice at ALL! Just pick one or the other, I don't know how to feel and it's creeping me out! Jeez!!!

[@esm1817]

The biggest frustration I have with neurotypical behavior is encapsulated here: it's all about, "How can I get people to do what I want?!" Not..."why might a person do that and how can I be more helpful to them? And are my expectations even realistic, given that all people are slightly different?"

[@stillnotstill]

Holy shit that's. Perfectly described.

[@normanclatcher]

I ought to preach this sometime.

[@AldinRamic]

Why does that sound like narcissistic to me? Like everything is about them. And they are thinking selfishly. And if they don't get what they want they seem to be emotionally harmed. I think I don't know what narcissism is.

[@dremcfleuve]

my suspicion is that if you're not completely mentally destroyed and fucked in some way in modern times then you are a fucking psychopath and would probably fail the Milgram experiment. It's a narcissistic trait to manipulate others into doing your bidding and communicating in terms of the reaction you'll get from the person rather than expressing your needs in a straightforward manner and negotiating.

[@tims.2717]

I'm starting to think a lot of neurotypical people lean heavily towards narcissism.

[@scaliedog2777]

I always preface or add to my icebreaker that if I'm not looking at you when you're speaking, I'm listening and taking in what you're saying. this woman sounds manipulative as hell and if she's so worried about being ignored, she needs to look inside herself to figure out why. Not everything is about her. It can certainly *feel* dismissive, but like you said, that's not always the case.

[@lindac6919]

The looks of the woman in the red blouse scares me the way clowns sometimes scare me. Too much.

[@cynthiabrown5456]

Good instincts.

[@em01455]

That’s an insult to clowns.

[@lindac6919]

Oh, I didn't think of that! 😅@@em01455

[@boop3260]

Sociopathic vibes tbh >

[@sarahblack9333]

She straight up has a Joker smile

[@cd4536]

How conceited is that first woman? The sheer rudeness is just shocking. If I sat down with someone and every time my eyes drifted she turned to follow my gaze I dunno what I would do, but it would be extremely upsetting and insulting. She needs a lesson in humility.

[@tomasvoldrich]

she is Vanessa Van Edwards, communication expert and speaker but neurotypical. So basically everything she says can work between two neurotypicals but can make many false assumptions when one person is autistic

[@cd4536]

@@tomasvoldrich Yeah but there are a lot of reasons to not make sustained eye contact that aren't being autistic. Her reactions would be obnoxious in any contact with the exception of the last thing asking someone if they are ok. There is a commonly used psych med that makes eye contact difficult. It would be mortifying to sit down to a meal and every time your eyes wonder the other person turned their head and said oh and pointed. I hope nobody out there is actually taking he advice.

[@martinmckee5333]

​@@tomasvoldrichI know neurotypical people who would be furious to be treated that way. If someone is not making eye contact, there is a reason. It may mean (as she said) that they are just disrespectful. But - much more likely - it could be a result of anxiety, fear, or overstimulation. It could be a result of cultural conditioning. Or it could be any number of other things. She had one good point. If you are concerned by the behavior, ask your interlocutor if there's something wrong. If there is, maybe it can be fixed. If there's not, the right thing to do is to accept that they are different and the interaction is just different than you were expecting. For a communication expert she sure seems to be allergic to honest communication and understanding.

[@JokerFace090]

@@tomasvoldrich A communication expert would know how to politely share if they felt the other person seemed distracted by something and possibly ask if there was something deeply important to them on their mind. They sure as fuck would not pretend to be interested in joining in looking at something in the environment with you in a mocking pantomime to make you feel bad about yourself for not giving them the amount of eye contact they want. It's not just childish, it is a red flag for a legit personality disorder.

[@_lil_lil]

I'd just tell her I have ADHD (because I do) and then we would probably never hang out again because she'd dislike that answer.

[@stevecarter8810]

Omg the eye contact thing! Getting told off, thinking about the words of the teacher/parent: "Hey, listen to me!" Now i am looking them in the face, they are telling me about whatever, but I'm fascinated by the way their eye socket flexes to accommodate the eyeball sliding past as they look at me, or the way the lips stick together slightly as they open and close.

[@Izabela-ek5nh]

Omg I thought I was the only one 😳

[@Izabela-ek5nh]

Omg I thought I was the only one 😳

[@audreyability]

God this reminded me of my childhood. I was difficult to discipline, since I would flat out refuse to do things I didn't want to do if nobody explained why they needed to be done. My grandparents visited and told my parents that they just weren't disciplining me with enough determination. My parents went out for the evening and my grandparents served me broccoli as a side at dinner. I refused to eat it, so they told me I had to sit in the corner facing the wall until I ate my broccoli. Guess who sat silently in a corner facing a wall for five hours. I was 6. Punishment to reinforce a behavior is not effective.

[@FruityHachi]

not explaining stuff is so prevalent among parents, and especially boomer generation since they had absolutely no understanding of brain development and that children are not born with knowing the reasons behind doing something, that they aren't being stubborn/difficult on purpose but that they just don't understand

[@limyarplane1991]

it could have taken such a simple explanation to fix that issue to but instead they must have some weird boomer authority power trip. instead of just simply explaining why eating your veggies is important.

[@CLJlovesmal]

Yeah...give me the answer/reason... I'm much more likely to listen, go along with etc. So sorry about your experiences.

[@robo1513]

I understand that it can get annoying hearing children ask "why?" about everything all the time, but that's how children learn. If your grandparents actually explained why eating veggies is important maybe you would have at least tried them or explain what you don't like about broccoli, instead of the very unproductive situation that ended up happening.

[@GoblinLord]

a video designed to help you manipulate your friends into making eye contact has an intricate wall pattern behind the speaker

[@tessawilkins4016]

😂

[@yeahbutthendragons152]

For real lol

[@ldm125]

I really liked that map to be fair!

[@MaxOakland]

It’s reallly crazy to see this from a neurotypical perspective. I often see the way their lack of empathy and understanding presents and it’s just strange how little perspective they have. And the lack of honesty, communication. The passive aggressive behavior. It’s insane behavior!

[@mechanicalbow]

Getting mad at tone tags is like getting mad when you see a wheelchair ramp.

[@normanclatcher]

Well... To be fair...

[@Nabium]

I have seen people mad at wheelchair ramps and handicap parking though.

[@pncwho]

@@Nabium I only get mad when they're horribly designed. Like, there's the wheelchair ramp...but you have to go through a bed of loose gravel to get to it. Or you have to go up some stairs to get to the elevator. Yes, these designs do exist, obviously made by someone who has never been, or does not know someone in a wheelchair!

[@Nabium]

@@pncwho Then you don't get mad at the wheelchair ramp, but the gravel before it, or the design around it. Obviously I meant the kind of people who'll say things like "I've never even seen a wheelchair here, what a waste of public money". They do exist. People who are out looking for excuses to get offended. Victim complex people, who'll make themselves the victim just for having functional legs. It's ironically the same kind of people who loves calling others "snowflakes".

[@pncwho]

@@Nabium Oh, I know they do. I'm not mad at accommodations, just the badly designed ones, and there are far too many badly designed ones. Builders really should consider how their places would work for someone in a wheelchair, but too many don't. You're right about the big problem; too many people have no empathy or consideration for other people.

[@AngryPug76]

The tone tag “you are being patronizing” comment is a great example of communication issues between us and typical people. I’ve had hundreds of encounters where I was accused of intentionally making people feel stupid because I spoke “to plainly and clearly” about things at work. I was supposed to have assumed the people already knew certain things even when I was training new hires with no experience. Many typical people have very fragile egos and low self worth about how smart they are so to them, seeing themselves as stupid people, if you tell them something they already know it’s the same as you calling them very stupid even if the detail ties directly into new information or new skills. I didn’t figure this entirely out on my own. I’m a former high school teacher who looked into transitioning into adult education. The main difference between teaching kids and adults is knowing intuitively what to leave out when talking to adults but realized this was a chasm I just couldn’t bridge. Tone tags unfortunately are going to always trigger the same people who get triggered by trigger warnings.

[@june-cz1cw]

Well as an autistic person I find that triggering it's not an ego thing it's a thing where people legitly thought I was stupid

[@vampyresmiles713]

first lady's "rewarding smile" actively creeps me out! if I was talking to someone and i noticed them doing that EVERY. TIME. I. LOOKED. AT. THEM. I would try to leave asap

[@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos]

I'm gaze avoidant, and I had a person lean into my line of sight during a conversation just today. It's the first time it has happened in quite some time. Interesting that this video should come out later that same day!

[@harulover]

Omg that's so rude! What a funny coincidence though. 😄 what happened after they did that though? Did you say anything?

[@LilChuunosuke]

And they think WE'RE rude! Jfc

[@filmfocusmind]

When I was a kid I hated eye contact so much but was told it was a sign of respect so I came up with the brilliant idea of bowing or curtseying (depending on what I was wearing) because I would bow my head. Thus avoiding eye contact while showing upon meeting that I respected a person. Plus I was like 5 so everyone thought it was cute.

[@_Myriad_]

If i was out for coffee with a friend and they shut up mid sentence to wait for me to look at them, and then smiled at me like theyre possessed and their demon is learning how to do human facial expressions for the first time, id be like uhhh i gotta go actually lets not do this again ever. Thats not a reward for my behaviour my monkey brain perceives that direct smile as a fucking THREAT

[@mert828]

Thank heavens I just talked to my preacher about making church more autism-inclusive and they were very open to it.

[@markigirl2757]

As they should!!!

[@cassettetape7643]

That's wonderful! Good luck🤗

[@notNajimi]

That’s awesome! Bless them

[@FlamingCockatiel]

Would you put down what specific suggestions you made? I'm curious.

[@toxicsugarart2103]

BLESS

[@LilFeralGangrel]

Western culture around eye contact is actually the odd one out, in most cultures it's unusual for intense eye contact to occur. Anyway, reasons why a person may have a hard time with eye contact: ADHD, Autism, confidence issues, social anxiety/social phobia, trauma, they're preoccupied. People who take it as a personal slight just come off as deeply self absorbed. Edit: I actually think that trying to condition people to give you eye contact is very weird and deeply manipulative. Lady in red is a very gross person.

[@SingingSealRiana]

IT IS Rude, dismissiv, condesending and messed Up . . . .also creepy AS hell . . .Like No thanks, I will never wanting to interact with you again!

[@roryandbro1561]

​@@SingingSealRiana Are you alright?

[@jenniLB]

NTs giving hints to avoid rejection seems to backfire because then when someone doesn't say yes to the hint it still feels like a no. And then they interpret everything as a hint, so they feel rejected even when the person would have said yes if asked.

[@madamek8656]

The first clip is so disturbing because the lady’s talking about maintaining constant eye contact at a restaurant and I’m thinking… am I just never supposed to look down at my food then? That sounds like a sure fire way for me to make a mess while I’m trying to eat (and I don’t exactly have the best dexterity in the world)

[@Rabenov-wq8qy2qg5t]

"Reward eye contact with a smile" was the moment I thought of a skull :-)

[@karoliinakilpelainen3325]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Imagine trying to TRAIN someone to do what you want them to do, intead of just asking them ”Hey, is everything okay?” Or just asking if there’s a specific reason they struggle with eye contact. It is okay to communicate!

[@realRatRat]

as a neurotypical, the first lady is why i hate the idea of “etiquette.” all these social rules that are supposed to make people feel welcome but are really just pretentious and exclusive edit; you guys should be aware that following etiquette like this is still important in a lot of contexts (whether or not it should be). elderly people care about it, and it makes you look good in a job interview

[@deusex9731]

My mom always scolded me when i didnt do all this surface level etiquette. I havent been diagnosed with autism and i dont think i have it and even for me, it always made more sense to adapt things like that. These things function differently from culture to culture anyway, so why make it so hard internally. If someone needs to stare at a wall to talk to me, cause otherwise ots sensory overload, then so be it

[@marocat4749]

A fair bit might cone even from classism.

[@marukochan13]

Exactly!

[@eleSDSU]

@@marocat4749 As someone who had etiquette lessons, it's all classist bs. Manners are about politeness, etiquette is about being pompous.

[@user-bz3kd2mt3u]

depends on the rule imo, unless you are _defining_ "etiquette" as being those social rules which are unlikely to receive universal support from those they directly affect. For example, while the general rule "don't start speaking until the current speaker is finished speaking" will create many issues (In NYC English there's a subtle cue regarding pitch that invites you to start speaking before the current speaker has _technically_ finished producing noise, and in Japanese I hear a constant stream of small filler words called "back-channeling" from the listener is expected), I think that "don't start a new clause while the another speaker is in the middle of a clause" is likely to receive universal assent.

[@dacksonflux]

It always seemed like everyone takes friendship for granted and it used to really hurt my feelings. They act like friends aren't a limited resource as it is for me. When I start to connect with someone, that feels like capturing lightning in a jar. For most people, however, that must be a common occurrence.

[@diarmuidkuhle8181]

No. Plenty of neurotypical people are lonely and have trouble making and keeping friends. They might be very shy, or have had bad things happen to them that made them anti-social or frightened to interact etc.

[@Brakvash]

Here in Scandinavia we either have aquintances or a few select friends. I believe it's a cultural thing. Here it's completely okey to have "enough friends" and not accept any more "friend applications". It makes for more long-term friendships.

[@hypiritchi]

i've only come to realize my tism tendenies recently (as in the past two years). i would just like to say that your videos have helped me so so so much!!! every time i tune in, i discover something about myself that makes me break down a bit. not necessarily in a bad way, just in a way that truly lets met realize what actually is going on with myself. thank you so much for being so open and honest!

[@AnotherCraig]

"Is everything okay? You're not looking at me" ...Well that said it all, didn't it

[@PixiesParlor-np7of]

"I have depression" "Just have fun!" ffffff omg I feel this so hard. I actually had a similar conversation with my dad. Me: I have depression Him: Why are you sad? What's in your life that's making you sad? Me: Uh...my brain chemistry? Him: You've just gotta fix the thing making you sad! Me: Dad, it is *literally* my brain.

[@sarahr8311]

"It's all in your head!" Yes, exactly

[@martinmckee5333]

I couldn't count the number of times I've had a conversation like that... sometimes even with therapists. It's amazing how difficult some people find depression to understand.

[@NormyTres]

Same

[@longline]

This might be the most relatable double empathy primer that I could easily share with everyone. Love it! Huge gratitude!

[@matthewtalbot6505]

Me personally on eye contact, I don’t really like making it. It feels too intimate, the whole “eyes are the window to the soul” thing. I don’t need to be staring into your soul or have you staring into mine to have a conversation. Buy me dinner at the very least first.

[@matthewtalbot6505]

Just got to the preacher. Holy Shit, he does not know his religion (I’m assuming he claims some sort of Christianity) *at all*. Because per christian belief, only one person history would count as “not a mess up” which is THE WHOLE POINT!

[@markigirl2757]

My gut thinks that saying was something for people who seemed to be up to something or were gonna steal and it was a warning sign they were up to something. I have not researched this but I’m sure there is an origin story to it!

[@etcwhatever]

Yeah it is too intimate. I only liked looking into my 1st boyfriends eyes. Well i also liked the colour. Light green 🤣

[@laurelelasselin]

I reserve eye contact for people I despise. I find it hard to do in a regular conversation, but staring at someone with pure hatred I can do. It's still uncomfortable, but less so (usually because it doesn't last as long and I don't care as much about listening to whoever it is I'm looking at).

[@AlsoReading]

Once at a track meet in middle school - maybe 5th or 5th grade - I asked one of the popular kids why people didn't like me. She struggled to answer, eventually coming up with the fact that I wore stretch pants (they'd be called leggings today) while everyone else wore jeans. I switched to jeans, but, surprise, surprise, that didn't help either

[@nathanfish9137]

That "ignoring" part of ABA you talk about struck a nerve. The child by himself on that swing took me back. Must be some unresolved trauma there. 😔 Anyway, I came here to say, thanks for posting this and for triggering me unintentionally. You can't fix it if you don't know it's broken. ❤️

[@theedgeofoblivious]

Neurotypicals' explanations of autistic behavior are BIZARRE. And neurotypicals' advice online to people who are obviously autistic and facing problems is also BIZARRE.

[@ishkanark6725]

As a neurotypical, my best explanation is "They do what they do."

[@spiritmuse]

Honestly tone tags aren't even necessarily just an accessibility tool. It's well known that tone doesn't travel well over text, and even neurotypical often have misunderstandings because of it. Specifically, it's common to interpret something as more negative, angry or aggressive than it was intended. Tone tags would help everyone.

[@markigirl2757]

Omg sameee right now I can barely move my face so I come across now as I really am bc of my cutrent medical issues I developed with my jaw so now I just don’t interact or engage with people. My ear plugs help to drown people out and I found people leave me alone bc of that

[@marocat4749]

Dunno, aside music cues, like emojis legit can add to presenting and communicating like it does online.

[@normanclatcher]

🆗 🍿

[@kateshiningdeer3334]

I ESPECIALLY use the /sarc tag these days, because trying to tell when someone's being sarcastic or when they're being serious is increasingly difficult these days - and I'm GOOD at reading sarcasm. I really worry for those who aren't good at reading it to start with - it's such a mess right now! I'm glad to hear there's more tags out there - I need to learn more about it! I just mostly try to overcommunicate if I have any question about how my comment will be heard, and try to eliminate possible points of confusion if at all possible.

[@LibraryofAcousticMagic3240]

@@kateshiningdeer3334 Yeah I also get annoyed at the Schrödingers-douche bags that will decide if they were being sarcastic based on the feedback after the fact. And I'm pretty sure I've actually seen such cases.

[@Kitya-K]

Eye contact literally shuts my brain off. I've never been able to do it. If someone tries to lock eyes with me, I pretty much feel like I'm being cornered. I remember people picking on me because of it back in school (I was like 13 or 14 I think?). Nowadays though, people seem to accept that I either stare down at the nearest surface, at my hands or something behind the person I'm talking to (or at something they're wearing, maybe even their nose for a split second on a good day lol).

[@fleridanfox6150]

where did the eye contact thing even come from? among lots of mammals, especially primates, it's considered aggression. dogs will side-eye each other if they feel unsafe, threatening cats will stare with an intense, unblinking look, birds will immediately fly away upon being stared at. i will not stare intently at someones face because it feels like either i'm submitting or showing potential aggression. my intent of listening just becomes all the more complicated and insincere.

[@lordsrednuas]

It's not really about eyes staring into eyes, which is how it's often represented. It's about looking at the whole face in detail (which includes frequent glances at the eyes). If you look up Dr. Albert Mebrabian's work on communication, you'll find that only about 7% of a NT's communication is the actual words, with over 50% being in the body language and facial expressions (the rest being in tone, pitch, volume, etc.) That's why NTs think you're not paying attention if you don't look at their face, they are literally saying 5 times more with their expression than they are with their words. (No wonder NDs have to ask so many clarifying questions, when 93% of the message is hidden in a secret code).

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

@@lordsrednuas exactly! Specially when I know the other person they do not even need to talk and I know what they are going to say (most of the time). I do not consider myself 100% neurotypical (because I have a queer personality and self-diagnose ADHD) but in this case I get more the “NT side”

[@maxixe3143]

​@@anainesgonzalez8868 What is a "queer personality"?

[@jimwilliams3816]

@lordsrednuas Okay, that’s kind of scary. I tend to get imposter’s syndrome from thinking that maybe I’m not as terrible at cues as I am “supposed to be,” but..93% nonverbal? Does Mebrabian indicate that the success rate in decoding those signals is high? Wherever my skill level is, I cannot imagine that I can interpret anything close to that with any accuracy. And in fact it strikes me that most of my skills at picking up subtext are probably related to what people say, not visual feedback. Suddenly my imposter’s syndrome seems pretty silly...

[@lordsrednuas]

@@jimwilliams3816 Mebrabian's work is mostly on NT's. The success rate it pretty high NT to NT, it seems to be all over the place NT to ND. Which makes sense really with the huge diversity between NDs. Some are good at it, and some are terrible.

[@mert828]

Why do people think they deserve eye contact? Wtf?

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

Because we live in a culture where eye contact means connexion, intention and respect. And… I would want exactly those things from my friends. Of course eye contact is not the only way to show those things

[@kxjx]

​@@anainesgonzalez8868really? Your experiences have clearly led you to believe that. In my experience it varies wildly depending on the context. There are plenty of places where making strong eye contact is likely to result in violence. I think you are making the same error as the person in the video and simply assuming that all people and all of society are like the bits you have experienced and perceived.

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

@@kxjx in my country not looking at someone who is talking and that you respect is extremely unrespectful. In most cases it is done on propose yo show we do not care

[@averyswitchcraft838]

I gaze into the distance a lot, particularly in more involved conversations. People do naturally turn around quite a lot and it's honestly quite funny having a moment of confusion and reassurance. But also all of my friends are also neurodivergent so that probably changes the interaction