Immature Narcissist Sets His Entire Family on Fire | Rowan Baxter and Hannah Clarke Case Analysis

[@bonnietoups2446]

Custody of his children was never about loving them, it was only about power & control.

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

Why then she didn’t agree on 50/50? He was never charged with any wrongdoings?

[@sandyg9954]

​@@alexeysamokhin9629​​@alexeysamokhin9629 your disgusting defense of a murderer who set his own three children on fire, along with burning his estranged wife to death make me question what personality disorders and twisted traits you possess. To defend a baby killer is grotesque and says a lot about you.

[@Ken-fh4jc]

That’s a bingo

[@SpringVioletta]

@@alexeysamokhin9629Are you serious? You think he should have had 50/50 custody after watching this video detailing his behaviour?

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

@@SpringVioletta when provoked, some people turn into animals. Don’t provoke people, why on earth it’s so difficult to understand?

[@icturner23]

When he refused to pay child support for his first son, I wish she’d taken that as the unforgivable red flag it was.

[@daebak_hana]

🎯🎯🎯. Any man who does not take care of his children is a huge red flag. Selfish, lack empathy and won't take responsibility for anything.

[@reliza93]

So glad someone said this. I totally agree. I guess she thought he would be "different".

[@RedAndTheCompany567]

Also, the fact that he was using large amounts of money from investors and her parents to pay for their gym business. THAT was another red flag. He never seem to have or want to use his own money.

[@jhoughjr1]

I can't imagine doing that. Ive wanted nothing more than to have a mother to children I can raise and. support better than the fuck all my ;parents gave me. These types of crimes are unnaturally evil. They don't just happen.

[@jhoughjr1]

maybe. if the child was well taken care of without support it isn't so heinous. Child support is based on need and income.@@allenbanks9034

[@midgeymidge9403]

As Dr Grande tells it, Rowan had purchased the petrol cannister and cable ties and borrowed the car BEFORE he started asking around about men's support groups. I believe he had already made up his mind to murder his family, but he cynically created a 'trail' of apparently needing emotional support as this would lead to a legacy of him 'crying out for help' and being a victim of his wife in the aftermath of what he knew he was about to do. Even after everybody, including himself, was dead, he wanted to be the victim and martyr and to control the narrative from beyond the grave.

[@MijoShrek]

Nobody was buying that shit could see that from a mile away,felt disingenuous hearing that timeline. Some quick dial calls to these hotlines, last ditch effort to control his pathetic narrative he had with himself.

[@kianzasmommy11]

Yep!

[@CateB66]

@@MijoShrekexactly. He was impelled to join those groups because of his long history of abuse. He had absolutely no intention of ever seeking the help he desperately needed as he never saw himself needing help. He was an abusive narcissist who was never going to change

[@jturtle5318]

​@@MijoShrekbut in his mind, this "proves" that he's "the victim".

[@michelemcguire8995]

Well because he died inbhis sins, those sins remain until the great white throne judgement

[@Bebecat477]

The first wife dodged a bullet. Terrible the children got caught in this disastrous relationship.

[@miriammanolov9135]

That's what I thought.

[@evelynwaugh4053]

Yes, although his being held responsible for child support could have unleashed his lethality on them, too. Any time one has children with a dangerous person, they have a permanent hostage and continual provocation as courts issue demands, which they invariably resent. I think the Billy Goat Gruff strategy (divert the villain with a choicer morsel so one can escape) the most practical strategy with abusers. When they are having their egos massaged by the new conquest and have devalued the old, there's the opportunity to flee.

[@NunYa-m4h]

Yes, thanks to Hannah

[@thewallkingdread83]

Children always pay the Bill for the sexual fun of "adults"... Breeding should be as rigorous as adopting, with screening for mental health and competency tests.

[@esteemedmortal5917]

@@thewallkingdread83that would and has been abused spectacularly in the past. I get that creating a kid doesn’t automatically make you fit to raise them but that approach would just be ushering eugenics back into the mainstream

[@Lala-bobloblaw]

I’m so glad we are educating people on narcissism. People with the disorder can be dangerously abusive towards others

[@whosaidthat9265]

Yea, real narcissism. Not the narcissism diagnosed by every other person only each time they feel offended. This is the real deal and it is sad that term narcissism has been diluted by untrained internet doctors.

[@pettywhite]

I agree. I think the people who call "narcissism" on any conversation they're losing is what happens when they're not educated on the narcissism spectrum.

[@colonel-h2b]

Agreed, need to expose these politicians as well, left, right, & center.

[@Gettothegone]

Problem is very few are pointing out the societal conditions that make narcissistic behavior more common or even rewarded. Corporate capitalism thrives off sociopaths and narcissists

[@culturalobserver8721]

I believe it’s not a “disorder”, it’s simply EVIL.

[@ChickaIva]

He didn't just kill his kids, he burnt them alive. That is beyond insane. My heart stops when I think about the pain they suffered. RIP Angel's.

[@gabrielle4152]

I have no word... Their last minutes have been filled with fear and pain on a level we can't even imagine. I wish we could go back in time and prevent this. The dad was truly a monster.

[@Down-with-men]

Men☕

[@wabalubadubdubdub]

​@@Down-with-menkys

[@Down-with-men]

@@wabalubadubdubdub no I'm not a man, that's what men do, fortunately🤣 Now cry more, typical emotional and irrational male.

[@Down-with-men]

@@wabalubadubdubdubno, I'm not a man, that's what men do, fortunately🤣 Stop the crying, typical emotional and irrati0nal mal e.

[@Magdalene777]

I think this is why it's so hard for victims to be believed or get help. The abuser can fool experts.

[@Laney322]

But also because women simply are not believed

[@agnediciuniene9861]

Because women are sometimes manipulative too. It is difficult to judge who is who.

[@Swansong321]

I agree and I'm sure she was gaslighted by the horrible man..but why keep having babies?..I'm not victim blaming..I just feel so frustrated by women giving these men a chance

[@bunnymad5049]

@@Swansong321 The power of their charm and pull is something else, and you always hope they'll turn back into the real them, not realising this is the real them and the one at the beginning wasn't.

[@bunnymad5049]

Yes. Abusers who don't even fool experts, in family court, they are not allowed to suggest (here in NZ) that they have personality disorders that can make them dangerous. I don't get it. A friend's ex, who is highly manipulative and abusive still has access to their children, and continues to send threatening emails to try and control her. And he is the type to one day, b*rn her house down. But she has no protection after a female judge removed a protection order a different judge gave her.

[@LovelyLass-nb8op]

He had a history of violence even at a young age in NZ. His cousin in NZ said they avoided him because of extreme violence even in early teens

[@melissam597]

This is why parents need to be held accountable for their kid's shitty behaviour

[@KiwikimNZ]

True? I didn’t know he was from NZ till this video, the case haunted me. Sounds like a right fruit loop! Imagine being able to do that to your own children, he certainly lost the plot

[@chinadoll534]

@@melissam597 once he’s grown it’s on him

[@WinahhTaylahh]

Glad you actually mentioned that he was a Kiwi not Aussie, most likely not even a citizen.

[@WinahhTaylahh]

​​@EmilDamil-wt1yfWe've always let Kiwi grubs in fsr and they can stay here for life without having to be naturalised or obtain citizenship, totally unfair to alk the other legit immigrants in my opinion who actually want to help our country prosper and appreciate the opportunities. Most kiwis end up costing the Aussie taxpayer far more than they ever contribute into the economy that's for sure, there was the 501 deportation legislation that was bought in by our conservative government in 2014 but they were unfortunately watered down and or loosened by our current and useless labour (left wing socialist PM and cabinet.

[@supertuber120]

"Rowan was the pain that destroyed his gain". I love that line.

[@kuroneko7022]

There are some really evil people out there! Imagine burning your own children to death. That wasn’t a man that was a demon!

[@alicemaritime9138]

Just broken brain producing no stress hormone in view of other living beings ‘ suffering and death

[@Jessrenee294]

I agree :( 😢😢😢😢

[@alicemaritime9138]

@@AquaFyre stop dragging demons into this, humans conveniently blame gods who «weren’t proper carers of the incompetent little poopoo who has no brainy brainy », devil who «pulled the incompetent little poopoo by his balls, and poor poopoo didn’t even understand what happened », mommie or wifey who « poured alcohol into the incompetent little poopoo so unaware of his was PROVOKED TO DO by stupid incompetent carers », Trump, Biden, king Arthur, local baker, etc. One piece of s made a conscious decision and took a conscious action and he and all the sleazy cunning « little poopoos who conveniently blame 3rd Party » need to own what they consciously done based on their deliberate well thought choices. Leave demons out of it

[@erinmccutcheon3751]

Despicable

[@carrington2949]

@@AquaFyreIf it brings you comfort to blame Satan, then carry on.

[@tonikely-brown7106]

I live in the suburb next to Camp Hill where this happened. Everyone was horrified by what happened to Hannah and her children. It was reported when neighbours tried to assist at the scene he yelled at them not to help 😢 Hannah's parents have channelled the grief of losing their daughter and grandchildren into raising awareness of DV and through their advocacy, coercive control is now legislated as a form of domestic volience in Queensland.

[@NunYa-m4h]

Ahhh, yes. The same coercive control the QLD used on people during covid. But they just did it because they care about us, right?

[@americanassociationagainst7981]

Thank you for this information on legislation. It hurts that it takes after the fact for these laws to become law. 😢

[@bunnymad5049]

Oh, my goodness. What wonderful news about the legislation. Her parents are obviously wonderful people. I'm so sorry for them. Thank you. x

[@carmenhunter4380]

I'm a few suburbs away from Camp Hill

[@steve10]

She tried to help rescue them herself but she was on fire , she was heard screaming their names , you consider what she was going through where she is on fire and can't get her kids out it is hell just thinking it , the first person on the scene must suffer this scene nightly. Horrific deaths , so sad 😪😪

[@peteywheatstraws4909]

Any time a man or woman refers to themselves as an "Alpha", what they are really telling you that they know everything, they don't think twice about being rude, they are self absorbed, pushy, domineering, and bossy.

[@lmoragon]

….and that deep down they are deeply and pathologically insecure.

[@akedi2734]

Well put! Have had this feeling for a while whenever hear someone say that but this comment makes it clear AF

[@viniciuscarvalho8641]

There is no woman saying " i am an Alpha Female".

[@ilsevdg1194]

Indeed. It means that they're vicious and they're proud of it. They think they're superior to everyone else. And they also think that you're duly warned by their introduction. You agree with the relational agreement. If you stay in contact, it's your own fault.

[@em.415]

Have you ever heard a woman refer to herself as an “Alpha”? That’s become an exclusively annoying male thing.

[@tcm4730]

This guy was not an immature narcissist. He was malignant!

[@sinceresong9907]

agreed

[@abbiealverez2960]

He was both

[@ilsevdg1194]

​@@abbiealverez2960indeed

[@kellysreads6457]

Malignant is bordering psychotic. He was psychotic! Killing your family is beyond narcissism.

[@barreldreamz7852]

Agreed to both of them. But here's the deal we always hear one side. She may have been equally as much of a narcissist. Those "GYM" couples seem to be narcissists most of the time. And this is coming from someone who has traveled a lot and had a membership at multiple local gyms

[@raze5346]

He killed his kids... as a father myself.. how? Its beyond my understanding how any parent can murder their children

[@channelthree9424]

Narcissists love no one but themselves. Children are just objects. Scott Peterson killed his pregnant wife because he wanted to be with his girlfriend. Rowan‘s parents must have never told him no so when he becomes an adult he does not know how to handle the word no and he probably was never disciplined or held accountable for anything.

[@zanzah_]

" if i cant have custody nobody will have them" the kids were mere possessions to him

[@Juke582]

A narcissist has no empathy at all! No love and no feelings for anyone! Dead inside essentially and are capable of anything! All murderers are narcissists! All these murder trials we see are narcissists all out there to see their ugly selves! Sick society we are in!

[@lauraelliott6909]

Narcissists don't love their children. They see them as possessions.

[@jena.alexia]

Blind rage? No longer in his right mind? Psychopath? High on drugs or drunk? Done to punish the grandparents and other family members? So many possibilities.

[@lynnjames6629]

It is very common to dismiss “red flags” in a relationship. When someone is behaving in a hurtful or inappropriate manner the last thing we think about is mental illness/ personality disorder. One of every three people have some kind of mental disorder, (that’s only the documented cases). The number one MOST IMPORTANT THING is to REALLY get to know someone before letting them get close to you. 💔😢🙏

[@lisarich2527]

I live around the corner from the Clarke's home. I will never forget that morning and the noise coming from amount of police, helicopters, ambulance and firefighters. The loss of Hannah and her children devastated our community and helped with changing our laws to recognise coercive control. 3 years later and our community is still recovering. May Hannah and her children rest in peace.

[@stephaniehowe0973]

❤ I know there are no words I can say. ❤❤❤❤

[@AMBSAB1944]

🤍🤍🤍

[@Dan-q6v1v]

So sad. He was an evil monster! The poor kids. 😢 the kids were just objects to him. Poor woman suffered too.

[@cherylrleigh1912]

Dr. Grande is indeed accurate in highlighting that mental health assessments can prove futile when individuals possess the capability to manipulate their responses.

[@esteemedmortal5917]

Yeah, that’s where optimism can be a liability. Not saying you have to be jaded, but one does need to believe in the worst in humanity as well as the best in humanity.

[@rockyevans1584]

​@esteemedmortal5917 for sure. Still, some people are just amazing liars. Practice makes perfect.

[@francinesanchez5402]

My ex husband got a forensic psych exam that showed some very disturbing traits. It was NOT recommended that he have unsupervised time with the kids by the person who evaluated him. He did not fool her. At that time, he had visits with the kids at a supervision center. The judge saw the report not recommending unsupervised visits and gave the kids fully unsupervised visits, including overnights (despite the fact that my ex was homeless at that time). He refused my lawyer’s attempt to show more evidence. We are hanging in there. But there is something very wrong with the family court system. I thought it used to be a fluke when that happened, but I’ve heard this over and over again, since actually seeing more. He recently drove drunk with the kids, starting the car before my daughyer was in and almost running over her foot. When I sought emergency custody, I was told my kids’ words were hearsay and “good luck” because he has to be caught by police in the act. I was able to get him to put an interlock device in his car, so he has to do a breathalyzer before the car turns on. But…. It’s been very traumatic. It would have been nice if our system better protected kids from unsafe parents.

[@francinesanchez5402]

I do understand how difficult the position the judges are in. But, yah…. We need huge reform.

[@ayamystic]

You pll are in denial. It’s not about words, it’s abo it body language and simply what makes sense. Most pll are mentally ill so they defend red flags

[@priscillaL83]

Clinicians and judges need to seriously be educated on narcissist.

[@wendygillard2133]

There were very early warning signs. He abused his first wife & willingly left her & his child for his new love. Also he stopped paying child support for his first child. That should have given an indication of his character.

[@LovelyLass-nb8op]

Absolutely

[@catcoffee7958]

True,,,, she thought she was special,, kept having kids

[@anonmouse15]

Standard bogan behaviour.

[@silvinasi]

That is why one always should be very wary of someone love bombing you while telling you their sob story. He probably convinced her that his ex wife was the devil incarnate. Always suspect someone who paints their ex completely black.

[@jamesfrench7299]

She was smitten with him I read. Don't underestimate what a woman will filter out.

[@grumpyoldlady_rants]

How absolutely heartbreaking. Rowan’s first wife really dodged a bullet.

[@catcoffee7958]

True

[@jamesfrench7299]

She married him in the first place. It's more that Hannah caught the rest.

[@Sebastianmaz615]

I'd like to know how she reacted to the news of what Rowan did. 😀

[@BethJehovah]

He had an affair with Hannah. So the relationship began in sin, was not blessed, nothing they did prospered, and ended in atrocity.

[@jondra1693]

⁠@@BethJehovahthis atrocity had nothing to do with the “sin” of the affair. That’s such a sickening, victim blaming statement. This happened because Rowan was a narcissistic monster. If this is what your god does to people who have affairs then I certainly want no part of him.

[@jazminepanganiban6427]

His first wife must have been so relieved that he chose to separate from her, but also horrified knowing someone else was going to be trapped with him

[@elizabethhamm5320]

This is definitely one of the saddest cases that you have covered. That’s saying something too. I can’t even imagine what Hannah’s family is going through. Once again, you have not failed to point out the lessons that need to be learned from a tragedy

[@tracievendetta1908]

💔

[@michelecrosse4261]

Something there are no words for such a horrendous crime. RIP beautiful family. Australia will never forget you. Hannah did her absolute best to protect her children. Nothing would have saved them. I hope he burns in hell forever.

[@wrosebrock]

​@@michelecrosse4261 there is a hell and he is there for sure

[@lisatattooedlady]

I can tell you this very case broke so many Australians hearts. It opened up a very much needed dialogue about domestic and family violence. May Hannah and Her beautiful children be resting in paradise very far away from that hideous monster.

[@sdsurfgirl60]

He broke the grandparents hearts forever.

[@ShannonStevens-gl7le]

This guy sounds like my dad. We're alive because my mom just gave him his way, no matter the cost to the rest of us and treats him like the box he believes himself to be. The consequence? I'm bipolar with PTSD, and attachment disorder, eating disorders and nightmares; my brother copes by using opiates and suffering a pile of mental health disorders himself. These guys should be taken out and publicly shamed, even if it's just so their victims can laugh.

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

We are trying to castrate pathetic males but "transgenderisim" no longer requires castration so they just go around pretending to be a victim 🤡

[@ikmor]

Sorry for your pain. Horrible.

[@kuroneko7022]

I’m so sorry! I grew up in DV and I know the results, also. My brother and sister medicated themselves thru the pain with drugs. Of the cycle, I was the one who escaped that but the distrust I had of men lingered a very long time. That is why DV is so dangerous and I tell my daughter if I find out her husband is being abusive to her or those girls or in front of them, I’m filing for custody! I’m not going to allow my granddaughters to grow up in the hell I and my siblings did because my mother wanted to stay with an abuser! YES, she had a way out with us: her sister, our aunt, begged her to bring us to live with her, she refused. It took me many years to forgive her and I mean many!

[@kweenz109]

Thank you for sharing. So horrible

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

Publicly shamed? I think you spelled executed wrong lok

[@glenbateman5960]

The phrase "immature Narcissist" is one of the world's most elegant redundancies.

[@Dragonfly_magictarot]

True

[@KingfishStevens-di9ji]

And most misused

[@natalier7204]

Dr G has toned the story down. Rowan was hiding in the bushes at her parents’ house when he jumped into the car. Hannah was so badly burned that only the sole of one foot was unaffected by the attack. This was an extremely shocking event. In Australia, one woman a week is murdered by a current or former partner and 15 women are hospitalised each day due to domestic violence.

[@oftin_wong]

To be fair it also works the other way ...around a third of domestic violence cases are because of a female aggressor, females also murder other humans

[@giyavictoria3747]

​@@oftin_wong no one said that men are never victims of domestic violence, but yall have to acknowledge the majority of domestic violence cases are against women. Men simply needs to acknowledge that their physical strength and the societal pressure that were imposed upon them makes them prone to violence. It's disgusting how lots of men are so self centered that even in a video about a male perpetrator you guys just have to take the spotlight when women acknowledges all over that men are victims in some cases too. It's just so annoying that you can't simply support women on this struggle, instead you have to say something that's already a no brainer.

[@oftin_wong]

@@giyavictoria3747 the majority of domestic violence cases are two humans having a go at each other until something snaps ...both are usually equally culpable I'm just talking statistics but you've sought to take it personally and make it personal by clearly choosing a side and demonizing the other side ...that's unsurprisingly something that females tend to partake in

[@Alex-js9fg]

@@oftin_wongyou are delusional.

[@itchysheets1222]

@@oftin_wongyeah but your first comment didn’t have anything to do with the original comment, you just had to put your mgtow two cents in. Low empathy, always the victim, who does that sound like. An abuser.

[@FroggyBarnett]

This case was huge here in Australia and was a massive driving force for domestic violence awareness and change here. Her family are amazing people. Everyone felt this one deeply. Very sad

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

Suddenly when a woman kills the children, like the case of Dale Hawke or Katica Perinovic, no one cared. Killing a man by a woman is not seen these days as a crime at all. She usually turn on crocodile tears and gets probation.

[@tylerberg4832]

you ok ?@@alexeysamokhin9629

[@Bynggo]

@@alexeysamokhin9629 oh I think you need a bit of help. If this man had put all the energy into working hard for both his families, he would have been a rich man. Unfortunately, it was all about him.

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

@@Bynggo I believe you need to get some support. No ons owes you a living. Including your partner.

[@CodyWright-pq3eq]

The only change should be that men get primary custody by default. Women make terrible single parents.

[@Lizzie__Lizzz]

Thank you for covering this. As a local resident of Brisbane, this was so devastating to our community and the whole of our Country to be honest. Hannah and her children didn't deserve such an awful life. Rowan was a sick sick bastard. The amount of awareness of DV that was and still is raised from this has definitely been a positive from such a sad situation.

[@sherylblazek2027]

NOT "sick"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! E. V. I. L. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Lizzie__Lizzz]

@@sherylblazek2027 I don't mean 'sick' as unwell. I mean 'sick' as in 'f&%ked up'.

[@enigmawrappedinaparadox7361]

When he abandoned his 1st children , this would be such a huge red flag, I would have left with my children

[@statementleaver8095]

Age gap & And the fact He couldn't even Shave properly are the First things I noticed 😂😂

[@cee-emm]

The other woman always thinks she is an exception

[@gins8781]

@@cee-emmSo true. When I caught my ex with his side-piece I warned her, “You are his next victim.” She haughtily dismissed what I was telling her. She survived 15 years of his abuse before dying fairly young.

[@katrinaoliver4167]

For me, a red flag is if a married man is giving me any kind of attention at all. Go home to your wife. Gross

[@MsHafekasi_]

First wife and child got incredibly lucky that his attentions turned to Hannah. Could very well have been them who were brutally murdered.

[@newlivingnews]

When dating, there’s ALWAYS red flags. Unfortunately people need to avoid narcissists in the first place, especially intimate ones.

[@AnnabelleAstoria]

They are very charming and charismatic in the beginning because they appear so loving but then they turn on you and make your life hell.

[@SinisterScoundrel6562]

Yes and ladies usually misread those red flags, but can clearly see egos as attractive. Then can't figure out why they end up like this.

[@babycakes8434]

People who grew up with narcissist don't know how to spot the red flags though untill it is too late.

[@Juke582]

It’s not that easy to detect that or deal with it!!!!

[@deb9784]

How about not accusing the victim? He was not only charming and kind, but probably very attentive when they were dating! His control/manipulation probably didn't come out til they were finally married. After all the system failed her as well! Everyone assumed her fear was over the top. Apparently, it was not!

[@jayjones7776]

Sometimes it’s hard to spot Narcissists because now there are so many narcissists. Very sad indeed. Maybe people never change.

[@leokimvideo]

I remember this shocking Australian crime really well. The whole nation was in shock and it put a massive spotlight onto toxic narcissist men in relationships. His paranoia was next level. DrG can you please do an update on the Australian Killer Mushroom Case as the woman who cook up the 'death meal' has been arrested. She's on charges for 3 murders and 5 attempted murder dating back to 2021. Australia has a tiny population but sadly there is a really nasty underbelly going on.

[@Jen-X333]

Wow, I did not know about the other five going back in 2021!

[@benhartart9487]

I wasn’t shocked, these things happen a lot, society cares not about the mental health of the people.

[@benhartart9487]

Women narcissists also exist bro. 😅

[@bigups737]

The other 5 are all attempts to murder her ex, he was supposed to turn up for another beef Wellington meal on the day three people died but it seems like five beef wellingtons over the years was just too much.

[@kylieknight2365]

Really? Tiny? And a nasty underbelly? Would you like to inform me of this underbelly as I work in law enforcement and a family in law enforcement over 50 years and the highest crime above anything else is actually stock theft that’s right stock theft beats murder rape drugs and all other major crime. And more people here die of accidental drug overdose being mistaken medication, prescribed wrong medication, given the wrong medication either in a hospital by a pharmacy or given it in a hospice/nursing home then illegal drug use. The leading killer in Australia is heart disease. My years investigating major crimes and intelligence the only time I have ever heard “underbelly” is to do with the Australian movie series “underbelly” regarding the criminal world in the 80’s - 90’s when police corruption was high. But now that the Moran’s are all dead and all related to that crime family and the bike gangs have all been disbanded we are really only dealing with the usual criminal drug activity and keeping our ears to the ground on crime in general.

[@youtubehandle-]

This is awful, so much evil in this world. His ex wife and child escaped this fate. Thank you, Dr. Grande.

[@rs3007]

Imagine you're the first wife. Imagine you might feel rejected. Imagine your son being so sad. Imagine the pain & emotions. Then think about how lucky you were that he went away from your son & you. Sadly wife 2 & kids weren't as lucky 💔

[@darkheartsartccollective]

Former victim of attempted strangulation and assault here. I fled my home 7 years ago. “Impossible situation “ is right. There is NO HELP for domestic violence victims/ survivors. Restraining orders are a joke. Attempted strangulation will get a night in jail, a small fine…and he’s out. This story only confirms what I already know.

[@laralexa454]

I hope you are safe now! I’ve been there too.

[@AjHx90x]

Yup. I went to the police for help after being attacked by a man…and they arrested ME for an outstanding warrant from over ten years ago for literally having a joint in my car…mind you, weed has been legal in my state for like five years now lol. I was blown away. I paid my little bond, and I asked them after, what’s going on with my police report? They were like, oh this is the night shift now, the cops from earlier are gone now so we don’t know……. About a month later I found out that same guy went on to Rape a girl. I can’t even explain to you the rage I still feel for the complete lack of care they showed me.

[@AjHx90x]

Also, I’m glad you’re safe now and I’m so grateful you got out of that situation before it was too late. Hugs

[@darkheartsartccollective]

@@laralexa454 I’m safe now! No longer dating, going on 7 years. I no longer feel safe with dating. I am healing and just opened my online bakery. I am working to put aside some profits for domestic violence victims locally. Thank you for your care 💕

[@darkheartsartccollective]

@@AjHx90x I feel you on the rage I feel about the complete indifference about what we have endured. It’s sickening. Karma will bite these men in the ass when their time comes. Be safe 💕

[@YagirlGGxoxo]

Hannah and I grew up togther/went to school togther...she was genuinely one of those ridiculously nice girls that were impossible not to like. Popular with everyone...it was so disturbing to hear the news that day. Still very strange that this happened to someone I actually knew.

[@zanzah_]

​@@SinisterScoundrel6562she had just turned 20 rohan was 31 he groomed her for years. Get a clue about psychology fool

[@amiesparkle00]

@@SinisterScoundrel6562stop victim blaming

[@marygoff3332]

​@@amiesparkle00not victim blaming at all. She was a grown woman with 3 children to protect.

[@winkyhere8697]

@@marygoff3332 She was a victim, same as her kids. All murdered by someone she once loved. Foolishly, yes, but that's what love can do. We've all been guilty of that at some point, I'd venture to guess. The thing is, she's no longer here to speak for herself. She did not start the fire; she died from it, as did her kids. You are indeed victim blaming. The *only criminal* here was the abusive Coward who murdered them all. She tried her best to get him the help he needed. That's what a loving (even ex-) wife & mom typically does in the face of mental illness, when it's the father of her children suffering the symptoms. She wasn't the only one fooled by him. Eventually, after enough gradual dismantling of the psyche via abuse, it's difficult to extradite oneself, esp financially. Sounds like, having suffered financial abuse as well as the physical, sexual & emotional kinds, she didn't want to present an even-greater financial hardship to her parents, until she saw no other choice. By then, it was too late. We gals are never *More Endangered* than when we try to leave a *broken man* who thought he *owned* us. Those folks who are thinking suicidal thoughts should seek help, *ASAP.* If they're Still Determined to go out anyway, they should make sure to leave this planet *SOLO.* The heartbreak left behind by that 1 demise should be the only pain created. To create more is an act of evil. Loving the wrong person is not an act of evil. My guess is that she came to realize his issues & felt pity for him due to whatever early experience(s) so twisted him up. She never knew he'd sink to the level he did. As a Mom, i'm certain that if she had seen *Any Glimmer* of her future, she'd have *SPLIT,* with her kids, Never to be found by him. She was simply fooled, and it was too painful for her to take off those rose-colored glasses even as they darkened to gray, b/c she once loved him & she had a decent soul. Others who didn't love him were also fooled, not knowing the depths of his darkness. Guys like these can make you believe anything, for as long as they want. They only occasionally give certain people a view of their True selves, as a form of Domination & Control. Everyone else is snowed b/c they Never get that view, and only see the charming side. It's why some exes are seen as "crazy", by those who never got the scary view. I was married to someone like this for a decade. When he left me for another woman, he tried to blame it on my post-partum hormones. Our toddler was 4 & I'd given up my career at hubby's command. I had no choice if I was to be "seen as a good mother". That decision left me little financial freedom to escape the growing abuse. But at least he seemed to love being a Dad. He only occasionally hit them (& left welts that lasted for days, at which point I'd threaten divorce & he'd turn on the love again, briefly). And he never actually hit me intentionally. He only pulled me out of our bed my hair one time (when I tried to seduce him away from his mistress & back into our marriage). He didn't mean to almost smother me that other time, he was only "playing". And he only kicked me in the head once, but that was an "accident". We make up All Sorts of *excuses* when we love someone who is mentally ill and needs help. We went to 4 different psychologists/psychiatrists b/c he didn't want to hear what any of them were saying. One put him on antidepressants, and all but that one warned me he wasn't capable of change. But none ever told me I was endangered. Which I was. If he'd thought he could get away w/ it, I'd *not* be here. That's the only reason I am. He knew better, after all the doctor visits. So he merely replaced me w/ a younger model, *Thank God.* I'd been groomed to accept abuse from early childhood. It was normalized, growing up in a family that believed "all females should suffer b/c of what Eve did 5K years ago" with a piece of fruit. The family I created w/ the wrong guy lives 2K miles away from my family of origin, who don't know their grandkids. But that was the best protection I could provide for them, to my lingering guilt & shame. I ended up in a not-better situation, just to escape my original abusers, who deeply resented creating me. I didn't take my vows ever suspecting my hubby would eventually feel the same. I actually Loved him deeply b/c of his charm & good looks (we were 24 & 27 when we married after 1.5 years of dating). I loved that he was strong enough to stand up to my overbearing parents. He was also a survivor of child abuse, like myself. I felt bottomless empathy for him, as he'd been battered far worse than I had been (my beatings stopped when a relative threatened to call CPS). Problem was, I got therapy, and he didn't believe in it. So, everyone had to walk on eggshells around him, lest they taste his wrath. He's no longer on this planet (gone from a sad neurological disease, after a long battle against it). Only his children miss him, even though he occasionally hurt them, as well (long before he became too sick to do so, and had to rely on them instead. *Karma exists).* We can only speak kindly of the dead, in our family. So, he's rarely mentioned nowadays. But my kids confirmed they're *Excellent Souls,* b/c they treated him with a level of compassion that I found challenging to muster until close to the end of his life. I'm proud they grew up with such good souls, despite the abuses they suffered early on at his hands (I fought him tooth & nail just to retain my 50% custody after he received a surprise inheritance from a distant relative). It was my job to protect them from harm, but I couldn't stop all of it. Betting this lady would say the same, *if only she could.* I DO blame myself, Still, and I always will. I could have chosen a better, healthier dad for my kids, had my own psychological development not been impacted by early abuse. But, would I still have had these same kids? IDK. All I know is that i wouldn't trade mine for anything in *All Creation.* 💞 Still, I know this family's fate *could* have been suffered by mine, as well. Despite my determination to protect them with all the resources i could muster. Sadly, often times, an abused woman's resources aren't enough, and there are too few shelters around to help them all. So, no fair stealing another's life, and no fair blaming victims who *cannot speak* in their own defense. This guy was a rotten ba*tard, period. Judge *only* him. May his victims rest in *Joyful peace,* forever protected from any further pain. 💙

[@theflowerwhosavedtheuniver5658]

@winkyhere8697 I have never been through the same ordeals that you have. I'm glad to say that I came from a very loving family and had a terrific upbringing. And even though I now realise I chose the wrong man for my baby's daddy, I wouldn't have had her, and he was too drugged out to resort to any kind of DV. But what I do want to say after reading everything you wrote is you're one hell of a lady to come through everything you have. You've did everything to protect your children, but you also gave them the ability to make up their own minds when it came to their father, especially at the end of his life. I don't think I could have. Reading what you've been through is inspirational. Big hugs to you & your kids ❤

[@Kareena1988]

She met him when she was 20..she basically had no idea of the real world.

[@lilac624]

She had to get to know the person first

[@PsychicRenegadeTarot]

So sad. 😢 She fell for a monster.

[@sansthedrummer]

And he knew that too. It's always the most vulnerable of us

[@Bri-nc8yp]

That’s why these men online from red pill or incel communities that bash women online all day everyday say they prefer women women who are young and not their age. They claim older women “hit the wall “ have been “ran though” are “304” according to them for every one partner a woman has she has 10,000 miles on them . They complain about “modern women” and wanting to go abroad to mainly third world countries to find women They claim they want young women because they are more fertile than older women who are in their 30s. That’s a lie! These men don’t care about having kids. They want inexperience young women they can abuse and she can’t go anywhere because she’s trapped. They want women who can’t speak the language and is 100% dependent on him so they can be abusive and she can’t leave. They hate modern women because women are earning education/degrees/ making their own money. This mean when these men come with their foolishness and man baby attitude women are more likely to leave because she doesn’t need him for anything.

[@peteywheatstraws4909]

He knew she was a child, and he took advantage of it. Typical predator.

[@LindysEpiphany]

I think narcissists can be much scarrier than a sociopath or a psychopath. Since they believe they know everything there is no reasoning with them. They are always right and everyone else is wrong. They dont accept responsibility for anything, its always someone else who is picking on them causing their issues.

[@rosieposie9564]

He comes across as a person with mixed narcissistic and borderline features to me. Borderlines are more scary than narcissists to me.

[@Hatbox948]

So true. My ex is a narc, and he always has to be right and/or the winner. Narc's are insufferable!

[@tomniebrzydowski3759]

A sociopath, and a psychopath are narcissistic. A narcissist doesn’t mean you are a sociopath or psychopath though.

[@goddessvibes08]

He has ASPD. Likely borderline. Not a narc.

[@rosieposie9564]

@@goddessvibes08 Agree, all that uncontrollable crying he was doing on the phone amongst other things just comes across as way more borderline than narc.

[@tdbarton7712]

I had a brief marriage to a man who showed a few red flags before the wedding but I know now that normalized them. Afterward he started doing all the things Dr. Grande cited--spying, controlling mail, food, sex, screening phone calls, control of my separate money, family visits became a tug-of-war, etc. Shaming me if I didn't lose weight--(I was 130# at 5'6"). We went to counseling after 2 months of marriage. The counselor diagnosed him as 'clinically gradiose--this was the late 90s'. Though we stayed in counseling, I left him after 8 months. Within a month he was dating the counselor!

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

How grossly unprofessional for a counsellor to date his clients! 🤢🤢🤢🤮

[@Bernardt_Art]

He wanted to impress the counselor so much against you that she felt for it. They are expert liars.

[@Hatbox948]

Omg! That's over the top!

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

@@Bernardt_Art most likely the male counsellor wanted to play good old “white knight” role and “save dame in distress”.

[@gcarson19]

​@@alexeysamokhin9629 Can you identify and follow pronouns while reading a comment? Maybe practice a little before commenting and looking foolish.

[@offgridjack5779]

I bet his first wife was GLAD he didn't pay child support and she could be RID of him!!

[@meowmirrr]

It's cases like this that make me wish that signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder would be taught in high school. There are way too many women who have become victims to scumbags just like this, me included, because they simply did not know what to look for.

[@globes179]

Big yes to this. It should absolutely be a part of general education.

[@evertvriezinga3193]

What to look for of course is morality. It's the most important to look for in everybody first.

[@winehousted90]

At this point I have to agree with you !! It happened to me too unfortunately but my experience is a little different because I grew up with a narc mom and family so I was somewhat familiar .. but not really because when I met the Narc guy his disorder was displayed a lot differently he’s more of a text book case ..

[@meowmirrr]

@@winehousted90 my dad is a diagnosed narcissist and my mom had BPD (she passed away from a fentanyl overdose ten years ago). And both of her parents are textbook narcissists. But I had no clue what it really was until I started doing research after my last relationship!

[@winehousted90]

@@meowmirrr yes me too !! I never knew the name my wholeee life !! I just knew something was deeply wrong then In 2017 all these videos started popping up describing what NPD is and for some reason I watched them and then I learned what they had

[@Cloudbusting31]

I recall when it happened, the media was full of stories about what a great guy he was. It was sickening.

[@vegskater1741]

That IS sickening. Any good things he did (which I doubt were many) were negated by his killing his wife and children in such a horrific, cowardly way.

[@Dan-xx5jq]

narcissists like to show off how great they are. Every thing they do is to feed their ego. They need all the attention all the time!

[@Evilushka]

The initial media write ups in Australia about this were disgusting. Instead of focusing on hell that poor woman and her children endured, they were trying to say what a “good bloke” he was, despite evidence to the contrary in every single way. Then the real narrative came out.

[@vegskater1741]

How could they call him a 'good bloke' after what he did? That doesn't make any sense. Anyone who does something like this was NEVER a good bloke.

[@mimiity9585]

Sounds like Australia is super chauvinistic.

[@Evilushka]

@@mimiity9585 In some ways it is. Bad enough for a PSA on TV to not be a domestic abuser… 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@BM_100]

Reporters are dumb their only goal is to get some story out, even if it is not accurate

[@bigthunder7002]

To be fair - Australia was where England send all their prisoner before it was a “Country” . So essentially most Australians are descendants of criminals that were kicked out of Europe… 🙃

[@ServalanFan]

Why this case is so horrific to me is that the children and Hannah suffered in their last moments while their cowardly murderer stabbed himself to death so he wouldn't be in pain. And the Police Commissioner of Queensland went on TV to blame the victims. He said what had Hannah done to this man to cause him to do this? There was public outcry over this but he still kept his job. And people wonder why this still keeps happening in Australia with the police unwilling to do anything to protect the abused.

[@lemonlime2288]

That is horrific but not surprising

[@redleeks6253]

Because he joined a man's club and was an alpha male. Beware of men who frequent these groups and foruns of the manosphere.

[@mindymorgan8479]

Good grief. How awful. Great leader

[@mymindseyesees2002]

There is a lot of Australian men in Thailand and they are abrasive

[@rebeccamartin2399]

Wow, no kidding my jaw just dropped wide open. Unfreakin believeable.

[@devorarossi961]

Psychology should be a mandatory class in high school. Perhaps we could teach our kids to recognize these psychos early enough to avoid such tragedies. Her parents must be distraught. I can’t imagine their pain and sorrow.

[@Juke582]

Definitely! Sure wish I had known! My HS BF was a narcissist to start it off! It got ugly fast!

[@laurapierce1243]

@@Juke582it’s really a job to teach your kids all of those thing not the school. And you can’t just teach the information so it will help them “watch out for people like them”. You teach them psychology to teach them how to have healthy mental health and healthy relationships

[@PsychicRenegadeTarot]

The best psychopaths can still fool you until it’s too late. 😢

[@CateB66]

I’ve been saying exactly that for decades, only I feel it should start from primary school, albeit age appropriately, becoming more advanced each year. When children aren’t taught it at home, the next place is at school and who knows, it may even have an impact of the parents.

[@azazello1784]

That won't make a difference. Some women would still make excuses for psychos and/or try to change them until it's too late.

[@msfwhat]

I live in Brisbane Australia and I watched this case here, first hand. The fact that the media, our society, refuse to call him a Narcissist is beyond me. They use the term "cohesive control", which means nothing, in DV awareness campaigns. Let's start spelling out the truth for once if we want to make a change. Narcissists are dangerous and have no cure. Run. That's it.

[@OzPiggy87]

It's *coercive* control, not cohesive. Coercion means "to force someone to do a thing, or things, against their will". I agree that Baxter is a narcissist, and I've thought so since the day he murdered his family. However, not every abuser who uses coercion & controlling behaviour is necessarily a narcissist (or else there's a huge number of them in the general population), but it does appear to correlate highly with those who are willing to harm their offspring to get back at their former partners for leaving.

[@LisaCulton]

It think it's "coercive control", typical of narcissists.

[@TianXiaoMao]

I can't understand why people who are having trouble paying their bills keep having kids.

[@terriesmith2616]

Pure narcissism and selfishness. When you have no money but still producing children, deliberately bring children into the world to suffer living in a poor house. Even billionaires don't have more than two or 3 kids.

[@ladylibertywdc8324]

The bullying mandate to have sex every day - crazy & surely made more chances for pregnancy!

[@MG-jj3pn]

It’s free in Australia.

[@C4TC4T]

Yeah, it’s pretty astounding…

[@deb9784]

That was the least of Hannah's problems. Seriously, children are the gift in the midst of all the pain she was facing!

[@maririnko]

Wow, what a small, evil man. I know this sounds bad, but when Dr. Grande said Hannah had passed away I thought, "thank god". I could not imagine the kind of pain, both emotional and physical, she would have had to bear had she not succumbed to her injuries. She should have never been in that position in the first place. How many women and children have to die at the hands of narcissistic men before the way domestic abuse cases are handled is overhauled!

[@kuroneko7022]

I was thinking more about the innocent little ones! How terrifying it must have been to see your own father setting you on fire and the excruciating pain! What an evil spawn of satan he was!

[@daveatkins3568]

Yeah. I’d rather go than stay in than situation. 💯😎✌🏻

[@Saakk129]

Don’t weaponize the children ladies. Never ends good for anyone

[@tanikokishimoto1604]

​@@heresalemonsukonit276No one in this thread is saying only men are narcissistic. Don't be that fragile.

[@janeoleary8454]

And to be without her children

[@CarolPy-l6m]

I became terrified listening to this. He described my ex husband exactly. If you are in a relationship with someone who is controlling, criticizes you, won’t let you have friends, who lies, etc. GET OUT NOW! It will only get worse! My ex tried to get me into a situation where he could shoot me, using our 4-year old as bait. He had a gun. Luckily I realized what he was trying to do and got help. A marriage counselor told me he was afraid of what he would do, and a medical doctor told him to get mental help. He didn’t of course. He stalked me until he finally found someone else. He hated me, but didn’t want me to leave him. Just like this man. This story literally made me sick

[@RedAndTheCompany567]

This is absolutely horrific. I remember hearing about this but never did a follow-up. NPD is not something to ignore. Get away from those who have it.

[@bunnymad5049]

IF you can recognise it. Grew up with it, and didn't even hear the term until my 40s. Def stay away if you can.

[@giabarrone7422]

That is why NPD is so insidious. I only found out in my 30’s because I was using psych meds off-label and a psychiatrist made an offhand remark about my childhood/mother when I went in for a refill. You spend your whole life gaslit to think the abuse is normal, and you are the problem.

[@bunnymad5049]

@@giabarrone7422 Yes! And after being love bombed, they start it slowly. Hope you're doing well. xxx

[@deb9784]

Obviously, they don't make it easy to escape though, right?

[@bunnymad5049]

@@deb9784 Horrifically difficult, yes. And worse if you have children.

[@HappyCat3096]

Reminds me of a great book: "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men," by Lundy Bancroft. It explains abusive behavior so well. Unfortunately abusers are often the last people to understand that they are in fact abusive and they are adept at manipulating others, including mental health counselors. Explains my ex very well.

[@esteemedmortal5917]

If they’re capable or willing to understand their behavior at all.

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

Apparently the dude was real alpha, and that was that attracted her. I don’t believe he was a crazy monster. Most likely he discovered that she was cheating, had outbursts, she was embarrassed and AS ALWAYS HAPPENS use their children against him. He was pissed off and wiped out everyone.

[@esteemedmortal5917]

@@alexeysamokhin9629 you’re making a lot of assumptions to defend someone who set their children on fire.

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

@@esteemedmortal5917 there is ALWAYS a reason for every outrageous behaviour. People don’t to crazy things unprovoked. He was aging, they had a gym, they had a stream of young fit men going to their gym. He lost his status is an alpha in her eyes. She cheated. He was PISSED OFF. Then she decided to revenge him for an embarrassment and AS ALWAYS HAPPENED, use their children as weapons against him. Absolutely obvious. Why people don’t see a full story here? Life is more complicated that black and white.

[@matrig6]

That book was the beginning of my awakening to what I was actually entangled in! I will forever be grateful to the woman (a complete stranger) who recommended I read it. It led me out of denial and into knowledge of NPD, and finally to safety. Glad you mentioned it.

[@davidnikon8501]

Your title for this episode uncalled-for, these innocent victims died a horrible death.

[@danpro4519]

WOW. This may be the most instructive case on the potential dangers of getting involved with a narcissist. Never, EVER underestimate what these people are capable of.

[@hahaha9076]

A beautiful woman living and helping people through the pcyc police citizen youth club. A woman would think any man she met there would be a fine person. My daughter says, "when spidy tingles, listen". My advice. Never uncover a narcissist. Run and hide. No contact. Hard to do when you have children with them.

[@dakalodk]

Married to a psychopath

[@blueStarKitt7924]

Right.

[@TransKidRevolution]

🙄

[@LisaCulton]

Co-parenting is impossible.

[@nhmooytis7058]

Only ways to deal with a narcissist: leave, or get them before they get you. Unfortunately some narcs won’t let go, they follow and stalk former partners.

[@David_____]

The choice of partner is so crucial in life!

[@dakalodk]

Yep

[@blueStarKitt7924]

Yes. She chose him and he chose her.

[@travelnomad2128]

Nothing truer than that! I'm unhappy bc of my wrong choice.

[@allseeingotto2912]

Unfortunately they all seem great at first then it’s the old bait and switch.

[@jimmyjay689]

Women are horrible at it...they make decisions of emotions, not logic

[@LifesPeachy321]

The scariest thing about this story to me is _she really didn't have any recourse...nothing she could do._ Her fate was sealed. You can get a restraining order, but they do nothing against people like this. He resigned to kiIIing her, himself and the kids...like you said, they were possessions to him. I wish there were something that people in this situation could do. Police can't and WON'T do anything unless a crime has been committed and when I say crime I mean someone has to be de*d or seriously injured. But even if they attempted to murder their SO they don't get the same amount of time in prison as an actual murder would...so then the victim lives the rest of their lives in fear of when that person gets out and what they will do.

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

Maybe she shouldn’t use the children as weapons against him and agree on 50/50 parenting instead? Nah, she wanted to gave an upper hand and paid a huge price for that.

[@towritemichelle210]

​@@alexeysamokhin9629yeah she should have given more time to a man capable of killing the kids. Tight logic

[@mariedouglas4650]

@@alexeysamokhin9629 Your comment is absolutely disgusting. That you can make this comment after all that you have heard about Rowan Baxter is sickening. You should be ashamed of yourself!!

[@donewiththeworld]

@@alexeysamokhin9629You must be a very slow person

[@fxt363]

​@alexeysamokhin9629 Poor old Rowan didn't get 50-50 shared custody of his kids so he decided to torture them to death by fire. Poor old Rowan.

[@yudellezion9615]

Oh my goodness gracious! That sounds exactly just like my husband and what I have been through. He has said in the past repeatedly " one day, I will burn this house." - oh my! 😢😢😢

[@niccolleholder]

Sometimes these cases are so triggering to my own experiences, if I hadn't escaped I'm positive I'd have ended up like Hannah. RIP to her and those innocent children 💔💔🙏🏼

[@itchysheets1222]

Omg same! This was so hard to hear about.

[@blueStarKitt7924]

Yes 😞🙏❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@noodles5004]

I see Hannah's name and immediately start tearing up. Australia's heart will always ache for her and her babies but we are so proud of the amazing effort Hannah made for her babies right up until she took her last breathe. RIP 💖

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

Were you crying when Katica Perinovic or Margaret Dale Hawke killed all her children? Oh, you don’t know? Oh, she must be victim of abuse? Oh, it must not be her fault because she’s a woman? I see…

[@ashtynrose1906]

Tbh the age gap was the first warning sign. 11 years at 20 is HUGE.

[@BaDazai]

He was upset with the amount of time he had with his kids so he sets them on fire, such a brutal and painful death he inflicted on the kids he couldnt part with. 🤬🤬🤬

[@blueStarKitt7924]

Yes.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

[@Rubrick23.]

No. He killed everyone else because he was proved he was not a man.

[@mewpertybewtox7887]

It was shocking to see so many comments online straight after this tragedy with people (mainly women) trying to defend his actions. They were blaming her for withholding access to the children saying that of course that’s why he “snapped”, or that the Family Court is rigged against fathers. It’s unbelievable how people try to justify such abhorrent behaviour.

[@mariedouglas4650]

I remember that too. I couldn't believe that people were defending this man and his actions. He was cruel to his kids when they were together. If Hannah didn't give him sex on demand he would take it out on the children as a punishment to her. She felt she had no choice as the kids would suffer.

[@abbiealverez2960]

I saw many people in Australia write disturbing comments about her deserving it and saying she could have left, it's just another case of victims further being abused by the public, insinuating women deserve this treatment because and placing no responsibility on men. It's really disgusting

[@SinisterScoundrel6562]

That's cuz only the women have the say in who they date in men. So take responsibility in who you choose, and watch all his vibes as you get to know him. Most of all, stop brushing off most of the interested men all cuz of what YOU assume he already is without acknowledging who he is first!

[@blueStarKitt7924]

​@@SinisterScoundrel6562Who was he first?

[@corvus8638]

@@SinisterScoundrel6562No thats because you enjoy victim blaming women

[@Task-paralysis24.7]

​@@SinisterScoundrel6562 Dude, you sound like an Incel. Telling women not to pass on the guy who is most interested in her because of what she thinks she knows about him is such a "nice guy" manipulation. 99% of the time women pass on those guys because they don't pass the vibe check. If that vibe is creepy AF, women are going to avoid the guy. They don't want or need to get to know him.

[@EveningTV]

Tragic story that I very much relate to. Fortunately for me I guess my ex husband (a diagnosed sociopath) was obsessed with being liked by everyone, so the only people who saw his other side were me and our children. He never yelled at wait staff or had a lot of problems with other people. He commited crimes, but didn't get caught, and he used people who were either consenting to it for whatever they gained or they didn't know, and he lied to everyone, but as far as I know no one else has a clue who he really is or has been victimized by him. On the other hand, it was clear that he wanted me and our two kids wiped off the face of the planet. It almost happened to me in 2001 when I had a sudden coronary dissection flat lined and during an NDE chose to live for my kids. Fifteen years later the trauma from years of his abuse did lead to the death of our eldest son at 20 in 2016, but as he was gobbling up the attention of a grieving father no one knew that to him it was a victory. He'd never wanted to look like what he was, but his heart is no different from Rowan's. I'm irrelevant to him now, but I've known for 20 years that he'd kill me if he knew he would never get caught and the same was always true for our kids. .

[@megalopolis2015]

What a horrible thing to go through. I'm very sorry for all that you have endured. I pray for your peace, and that this guy is caught doing something underhanded and imprisoned before more tragedies ensue.

[@Ingaforagingandgrowing]

So sorry 😢❤

[@spiritwardiaries]

💔❤my heart goes out to you. My little sister ended her life due to torment from a narcissistic spouse.

[@engleharddinglefester4285]

"no one knew that to him it was a victory." Yep. That's them. I had a mother like this.

[@priyokabi]

So sorry for your suffering

[@lilbitsleepy2574]

One of the most awful family annihilator scenarios I have ever watched on true crime channels. Being at the mercy of such a controlling, manipulative, and cruel man is a nightmare and I know that any woman in such a situation is very afraid of what they are capable of. Poor Hannah and her beautiful children.

[@autumnleaves8553]

Omg! He set his family on fire?

[@absmaitland6465]

Ladies if you make the mistake of dating a married man and the wife is happy & didn't put up a fight, RUN!!!!!!

[@Kat_Stewart]

Even if she does put up a fight RUN. Married men are a huge no no..

[@janef7191]

This happened right near where I lived! It was absolutely horrifying and to think a father did that to his children and the mother of his children is just awful.

[@Swansong321]

These people..unalive yourself..but of course they can't bear the thought that their wife could have a life away from him..and see the babies as THEIR possessions..not as people in their own right..this is shocking and disgusting..

[@TheWarmDown_MMA]

I have a friend who was close friends with Hannah, to this day he gets emotional about what happened to her. From what I hear she was an angel to everyone she crossed paths with. Thanks for covering this Dr Grande. From 🇦🇺 take care

[@JeaneGenie]

What an absolutely dreadful person he was. Makes me wonder why she got involved with him. He was already married when she met him, and that should have been a big red flag right from the start. Would have been a ton of other warning signs along the way with his behaviour and personality too.

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

99% of women date with their next partner while being in relationships. It’s called “monkey branching” and it’s a known phenomenon.

[@sarah2.017]

"But s/he wouldn't be that way with me!" That was deliberately gender neutral, because women can certainly be abusive, and LGBTQ+ relationships aren't exempt from this either.

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

@@sarah2.017 if you rate straight, lesbian and gay domestic relationships from more violent to less violent, the list is: 1. Lesbian - most violent 2. Gay - less violent 3. Straight - by far the least violent. This gives cognitive dissonance to left folks advocating for “man bad woman good” narrative.

[@dakalodk]

​@@sarah2.017she had poor judgement

[@jet4415]

These type of disordered can be extremely charming in the beginning of a relationship. The spouse spends the rest of the time trying to get back a person who never existed in the first place.

[@bunnymad5049]

There's just nothing in his eyes. That poor girl and her babies. I remember when it happened. Can't help but cry. There needs to be more protection for victims.

[@marlenestewart7442]

She had such a terrible marriage. Yet she continued to have children with him. This is all so common. Why do women, mothers, do this?

[@Saakk129]

@@marlenestewart7442She sounds just as bad as he was. Right up until the murder part at least

[@bunnymad5049]

@@marlenestewart7442 Lemme see - why have women done this for centuries? May I suggest you do some reading - because the commonality of it shows you there is something that happens when one comes under such control etc. xxx

[@bunnymad5049]

@@Saakk129 Trolling. Yeah, go get a day job - cos you're really bad at this. 🥳

[@bunnymad5049]

@@marlenestewart7442 I just realised I sounded rude. I'm sorry. It was not meant rudely. xxxx

[@clairem730]

May Hannah and her children rest in peace. The way their lives were taken broke our whole country’s heart.

[@Noorie79]

This is horrific 💔 Poor Hannah and those beautiful children. Soooo grateful every day that I didn't marry or have a child with my abusive, narcissist ex!

[@Mikkibriteside]

The best thing I learned last year is that Narcissists can't be cured. The only answer is to move on. I left my husband when he screamed at me that he was "Proud to be a Narcissist ". That's like saying "I'm proud to be an adult 3 year old." I will always love my Husband..but he put himself on the absolutely not list. Worsening substance abuse was also involved. No one can cure these things for another person. I have no regrets over the time I spent with him...lots of good memories..However, it's important to be able to leave when the writing is on the wall.

[@marleyhill34]

Same.

[@seeker9912]

Accusing others of cheating when they lose appears to be something quite common among narcissistic people

[@nattyfalk3185]

You lose yourself and do everything to protect his feelings. These videos make me feel less lonely. Thank you for sharing.

[@FalcoStarlight]

The Baxter case: a chilling testament to the fact that sometimes, the most dangerous lies are the ones we tell ourselves about the people we think we know...

[@RedAndTheCompany567]

🎯🎯🎯 Indeed

[@susanneashton1340]

Well said. I have done the same. 😢

[@FalcoStarlight]

@@susanneashton1340 ❤️

[@iAmiSaid]

Couldn't have said it better

[@Juke582]

No it’s lies we tell ourselves about our own issues like codependency

[@louise2467]

It’s truly frightening just how many of these types of people, cross your path, daily! You may be sitting next to one right now…….

[@joedokes7710]

The clinician maybe had a lot of explaining to do but I bet she suffered no penalties. Professionals cover for each other most of the time.

[@HKRAQ]

Clinicians are snake oil salesmen. I’ve been an addiction counselor for years and 99% of its bs, literally the only path to recovery is the addicted person choosing of their own free will to get clean, it’s no different with any other mental health issue except very very very extreme cases

[@Dhruv_Dogra]

Yes. Incompetent people cover for their profession.

[@kathymills1925]

How sad and horrifying! Those poor children and Hannah!

[@The_Red_Pill__]

That’s so disturbing. I hope the children went quickly. I can’t imagine their final moments. RIP ❤️‍🩹🥲

[@crocadoodle7101]

Unfortunately a recurring theme is that even when the abused person suspects or believes their abuser may kill them, they often still allow personal contact. We all have to increase our awareness and then especially follow through with a solid plan to stay safe. As you say Dr G, in this case the wife and children were dealing with a man who was very determined to exterminate his family. A very very sad story. Thanks for this insight and reminder, as it may make a difference for somebody’s safety in the future.

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

I don’t believe this man was “determined” to kill everyone. Most likely he was cornered, he lost everything, and decided ro give an ultimate revenge. MORALE of the story: DO NOT CORNER PEOPLE!!!!!

[@SinisterScoundrel6562]

​@@alexeysamokhin9629😂😂😂😂😂😂😂Justified!👹👹

[@vbrown6445]

How horrible! His first wife and son were so lucky to get out with their lives. I would have been happy that he didn't provide any child support-- the less contact with that monster, the better.

[@ravenxin4832]

This video should be shown to every single teenage girl, as a cautionary tale of the signs of a narcissist and how to report them and stay far away from them. Most importantly, to teach girls and women how to spot these men/people, and stay far away from them.

[@the.voivode]

I lived in Brisbane for 18 years and remember when this happened. Thank you for your detailed analysis, Dr. Grande. There were details in this summary I wasn't aware of that made it all the more shocking...

[@UghSheGiggin]

Hannah should have known the man was a shit bag when he refused to pay child support for his first kid.

[@jimmyjay689]

How do u describe women who get abortions?

[@MegTelevised]

So dating married people is no longer a red flag?

[@bigthunder7002]

@@jimmyjay689an organic jezebel leisure murder factory

[@melfreemans]

​@@MegTelevisedikr!!!!

[@melfreemans]

WTF does that have to do with anything???

[@tarajay773]

This was utterly heartbreaking in Australia, I remember so much news coverage over it at the time

[@katim2644]

I can't get over the gift cars with no money. He wanted the adulation when giving them. He wasn't gonna be around when the kids found out dad was a douche. That is probably the most pathetic thing I have ever heard!

[@mallorymcfall]

I have a deep appreciate for how Dr. Grande announces absurd things like No Pain No Gain and TikTok

[@KnowingThyPower]

Why would you start a relationship with a married man willing to leave his family for you and think you'd have a happy ending... sad sad as turn of events.

[@digigalbytes2445]

Thanks for an insightful & compassionate analysis of this terrible case, Dr Grande. I was living nearby when this waste of oxygen annihilated his beautiful family, and it shook our community to the core. Hannah was so brave & strong, both before & after the attack; paramedics reported that she refused treatment until she'd shared the details & perpetrator with police, despite horrific injuries. Her parents said the only skin on her body that wasn't burned was the sole of one foot. And what a completely vile & cowardly monster Rohan was, to even imagine attacking his toddlers like that, let alone carry out his evil plan. I hope there is a hell, so he can eternally experience what his wife & kids felt.

[@esteemedmortal5917]

I don’t believe in hell but people like this make a compelling argument for it

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

Do you understand why he did what he did or you pretending? If someone comes to a police officer and throw a poo in their face and they shot back, is it a murder? Was it provoked? Things in life are much more nuanced.

[@esteemedmortal5917]

@@alexeysamokhin9629in his mind he probably took anything she did of her free will as a direct affront to him. Doesn’t mean it was proportionate or appropriate or justified to set his family on fire.

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

@@esteemedmortal5917 no, it was NOT proportional. But he was cornered. He lost his wife, his business, she applied for AVO, so he won’t see his kids. He asked for 50/50 parenting, and I believe she was laughing her ass about it, because she wanted to have an upper hands in regards of parenting. So the dude was cornered. When people are cornered, they turn into ANIMALS.

[@esteemedmortal5917]

@@alexeysamokhin9629 he backed himself into a corner. She was doing the best she could to protect her children. She was afraid and clearly for good reason.

[@matt.stevick]

Oh my God that’s the most horrific murder suicide I’ve ever heard of 😢my dear Lord

[@carina-jaipaul1342]

As a Queenslander and an Australian this actually happened 40 minutes from my house.. I remember watching this all unfold on Sunrise on 7 news.. There is police bodycam footage of them being pulled over because the car that they were driving was unregistered… Hannah was sweet and calm during the incident and Rowan acted like a deadset lunatic.. Her mum and dad have set up a Domestic Violence foundation called Small Steps 4 Hannah..

[@biancalimpus8194]

I’m a psychologist who live in the same suburb (a few streets away) from where this happened. The psychologist that wrote the letter for him was not doctoral level. She also appeared to be practicing outside her scope of practice as per the inquiry into this incident. She is currently not practicing. This has and continues to shake this community and has been a catalyst for changes in domestic violence laws. It is heartbreaking that this had to occur for these changes to be realised.

[@alexeysamokhin9629]

Why cases of Margaret Dale Hawke or Katica Perinovic who killed their entire family weren’t any catalysts? I can explain why: because DV is a huge multi-billion dollar business and they’re openly anti-men. I believe when Hanna was murdered DV executives bought a nice champagne to celebrate an upcoming money rain of government funding!

[@biancalimpus8194]

Absolutely. He specified she was a doctoral level psychologist and she is not. That says nothing about her ability/skill etc. Just that it was incorrect to specify this.

[@RonSafreed]

When you have 2 parents with anti-social behaviors, this can destroy the social-life of a teen & young adult!! This happened in my life. My older half-brother, every time he brought a girl he was dating to meet mom & dad, they would break-up with him & he never got married!! % different girls & only one-time meeting my parents!! My parents were non-chelant about a future daughter-in -law relationship!!

[@raisamoola2090]

Your consistency and work ethic is unmatched. How do you do it!!! ❤tx Dr G.

[@benjpac5]

Yes, please tell us 😅

[@SRobinson-hr6me]

I wish people would admit that these things happen instead of crucifying the people who bring light to it. They’ll attack you for issuing a warning, but will cry when the new’s story comes out.

[@snappingturtlehiddentiger6571]

The kids went shopping with the cards and were so excited but when they went to pay they were empty. It was so sad. He also used to use his wife’s nudes and print them out and put them in his car and threaten if she didn’t come now the kids would see them in his car. He was a piece of shit dog!!!

[@timchilders3535]

Do not use Dog as any sort of reference or derogatory description of this guy. Dogs are wonderful beings, this guy "Rowan Baxter" was not. Thank you.

[@allseeingotto2912]

@@timchilders3535Dogs poo is not a dog .

[@kevinkapowski]

Thanks for covering Dr. Grande, this is probably one of the most disturbing cases in recent memory in Australia. A case that hopefully makes people realise pathological narcissism is a real and surprisingly common thing, more than just a buzzword on the internet or a psychology textbook.

[@meganmckechnie8791]

We are all so impacted by this horrendous injustice to this beautiful family. Our love will always be with them. Investigating Narcissistic victimhood is how I become introduced to your content Dr Grande. My life is so much better for it, it has been transformative. I cannot thank you enough. Much ❤ from Australia.

[@JodeanCarlson]

Will you please cover the recent plea bargain that Joran van der Sloot accepted for exhorting money from Natalie's mother? Which was decades longer than prosecution could have ever sought in a trial! Is he trying to cause more pain to Natalie's mother, (part of the plea was telling her everything that happened). It's unheard of for someone to accept a plea of decades more in prison that what a prosecutor can seek in a trial.... Plus, he had to admit to killing of Natalie, and how, and where?

[@angelabordack]

At least he told her.

[@SassyShell13]

I'm glad he finally told. It was pretty much exactly what we all feared had happened. 😢❤