Imperial Knights in Warhammer 40K - an Army Overview and Strategy

[@dmitrykhvostik5975]

The biggest paradox of Knights armies is the fact IK/CK Players pay less for minis than others.

[@adamf7769]

Think custodes just about have them beat in cost effectiveness per point, to be honest.

[@Flyinpenguin117]

My LGS sells a Knights 'starter bundle' with a Dominus, Codex, and Data Cards for 185. With that, the new Christmas box, and am extra box of Armigers, I can probably build a 2k army for ~500 bucks

[@adamf7769]

@@Flyinpenguin117 Think i built my 2k custodes for about £300, including a forgeworld telemon. Which is around $350, though i think the US gets scalped to all hell, especially when forgeworld is concerned.

[@agreetodisagree8256]

@@adamf7769 haha we do indeed, I actually paid less for forgeworld when I used to get stuff direct from Britain through currency exchange.

[@Archangel4500000]

I will be honest- early in 9th I picked up a 2k fully painted Knight army for $460 on ebay.

[@Archangel4500000]

The Titanic Keyword is not what makes a model be able to be shot from behind obscuring terrain- That rule specifically applies to Models that have a wounds characteristic 18 or More. That is one detail a lot of people get wrong. Also you still need true line of sight- so if there is a solid wall between your model and the knight- you cant see the knight.

[@stupidanon5941]

Okay, I'm confused; if you need line of sight, then why does the rule even exist in the first place? If a model's base is poking out at all, if you can get an angle on it, obscuring doesn't protect it. An obscuring wall is an obscuring wall, right?

[@MrSmitejr]

@@stupidanon5941 the obscuring rule means that if you qualify, it doesn't matter if you can see them through a window or over the top of the building. If you're 18 or more, then as long as you can see a bit of the model they're fair game

[@stupidanon5941]

@@MrSmitejr So, holes in an obscuring wall matter only when a model has 18+ maximum wounds.

[@MrSmitejr]

@@stupidanon5941 Yeah. Though usually 18+ wound models would be higher than those terrain pieces so it's often academic.

[@richardsutton1790]

For those wondering, all Titanic models can natively fall back and shoot (and use psychic powers if they have them).

[@draconicrift8974]

I'm really hoping to get one of those holiday boxs with the knight in it, I'm pretty excited to add it to my growing AdMech army.

[@The_Foil]

I'm also thinking on buying that box, my only question is , can I use this knights with a guard army?

[@chetmanley1885]

@@The_Foil you can bring a super heavy auxiliary detachment with Freeblades, either one big knight or one squad of armigers. No warlord traits, relics or strategies so no 4++, no bonds, no chivalry stuff. It's fun, I don't think it's especially good for Imperial armies. Imperial Knights work because of synergies, which you lose. You also don't have a huge gap in a guard army that knights can fill, if you have the equivalent of Karnivores that would be great.

[@Flyinpenguin117]

@@The_Foil Any Imperium faction can take a Freeblade knight in a Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment. It's a bit of a tough sell with CP being at a premium in Nephilim and Guard already having Baneblades, but it is something you can do.

[@DaBlueIghuana]

@@The_Foil basically, yes, but in a separate detachment for them

[@smitelord1000]

I'm new to the hobby and you've been really helpful in helping me pick which armies I want to start for my first two. I've wanted to do Knights since I learned about them because giant robots are cool, so this is very helpful. Thanks!

[@jeffhatcher6585]

Fab to see another brilliant update. Thanks so much. You’re a legend!

[@jasonfreeland9196]

Great Video as usual. Would love to see one breaking down Chaos Knights in a similar fashion.

[@danielclare2406]

There is one from 3 weeks ago on the channel :)

[@jasonfreeland9196]

@@danielclare2406 thank you. I’ll check it out. No idea how I missed that

[@TheGoopiestGoopa]

I’m currently trying to put together a Custodes list with a Freeblade Lance Knight Castellan for some major firepower. It currently has a lot of sisters of silence in it so the army is underpowered for its point cost but they are either getting buffed or flushed out of the army as I collect more. I can’t wait to play my first match once it’s all painted!

[@victordavila9812]

If you already have the castellan it's a great choice but a crusader would also give some fire power for a bit less points in any case make sure to run them with machine focus

[@Tremadog102]

I am disappointed that GW gave FW Knights a decidedly rude gesture with pretty much no synergy. Limiting almost every buff to either Questoris or Armigers was a major disappointment. It feels like I should have just bought a load of Warglaives instead. I know GW don't build their codex rules around FW models but the amount of rules that shut out anything other than Questoris or Armigers almost make it feel spiteful. I am collecting an Imperial Knight army when the Codex feels more like and Imperial Squires army currently. I like the Armiger models so it's not a chore to get a few more for more board control but it feels bad that some of my Knights will have to be shelved.

[@andrewamann2821]

The real question is what will be left by the time they get there, and if they will be shot off the board if they're treated like the priority threat they are...

[@chuckhoyle1211]

I think that is more of a Forgeworld issue. They could just issue a rules update that slaps "Questoris" on the Cerastus knights along with giving them a bondsman ability and most of the issues evaporate. Maybe do a points adjustment too.

[@Tremadog102]

@@chuckhoyle1211 the frustrating part is they changed some keywords when the Codex came out but they did the absolute minimum effort job. They could have added some bondsman buffs but they didn't bother. It's a shame, I am really proud of my Castigator but it's not even possible to make my flashiest knight my warlord. I painted him up with princeps markings only to find out I had to pay through the nose just to give him the second warlord trait for my army. Part of me hopes that the imperial armour compendium gets a rework but then I have to buy a new FW book. 😛

[@ThePhoenix743]

And here I was thinking today "Maybe I should take up knights"

[@williamschubert868]

It's a sign

[@spiffcheeso]

I love knights, but how these things have worse armor than a basic guard tank (or space marine power armor thanks to no armor of contempt) is beyond me. Probably unpopular opinion, but they need some durability buffs despite placing ok.

[@samuelwhitmee9394]

A tank is pretty much a box of armour and tracks, these are intricate machines with many exposed moving parts, I think 3+ is fair and sensible

[@matjov]

@@samuelwhitmee9394 easier to damage a Questoris Knight with a Heavy Bolter than a Land Speeder. Does that make sense?

[@stevenschnepp576]

@@matjov Yes, because the Land Speeder is an armored box with few moving parts.

[@spiffcheeso]

@@samuelwhitmee9394 Worse than basic Sisters of Battle armor which has thin plates and moving parts without armor of contempt. Guess we'll agree to disagree.

[@samuelwhitmee9394]

@@spiffcheeso Ay look man I was here to compare the tank and the anthropomorphic robot don’t start throwing goofy games workshop rules at me.

[@Jerry2die4]

45 minutes about my mechanical future horsie Bois?! Hell yeah!

[@venlocity2]

I don't care how meta they are I want them and Tau because GIANT ROBOTS

[@spoonsrattling]

I love knights. But what I really love is everytime a new semi competent melee unit comes out everyone says "they can easily kill a knight!!1!!1" like that's at all impressive when knights are made to be killed in melee, have been for ages.

[@Jakey44]

I SEE YOU

[@Gritt4reel]

In the "Allies" section, you could have pointed out the only synergy with Ad Mech this days: Metalica - Requisition Stratagem (1CP) The legions of Metalica have a long-standing alliance with the Knights of House Raven, and the two have fought beside each other on countless occasions. Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army. Select one HOUSE RAVEN unit from your army. That unit gains the Canticles of the Omnissiah ability and is considered to have the ADEPTUS MECHANICUS keyword for the purposes of this ability (the inclusion of this unit in your army does not prevent ADEPTUS MECHANICUS units in your army from using any rules that require every model in your army to have the ADEPTUS MECHANICUS keyword). Personally I don't like it that it is only limited to Metalica and House Raven (though this adds to the fluff of them).

[@Mathiasosx1]

Please note that feeblade list should have only 1 Moirax with siege claws.

[@TimRobson30]

Played against knights yesterday as my votann 75 power battle each side, I had my entire army and the knights had 4 models it was a strange sight. Great battle with my votann coming out on top killing 3 of the 4 knights on the board

[@joshy7759]

Wish it was easier to soup a single House Knight instead of a Freeblade.

[@that1guyfinn418]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the differences between both knight factions. Which flavor of knights is stronger?

[@bruhlaro5416]

Chaos is stronger than imperial, Khorne is stronger than other chaos alignments. Mechanicus households is by far the stronger of imperial alignments, with Griffith (from imperialis) and the Mars household being the best so far.

[@xii.olympia5019]

@@bruhlaro5416 in what way are chaos stronger than imperial? imperial knights have a higher win rate than chaos knights, by 5% which isn't insignificant. But yeah, Khorne is stronger for chaos and Mechanicus is stronger for imperials.

[@chetmanley1885]

Imperial Knights rely a lot on synergies, chaos knights are individually stronger. Imperials have a lot of different knight varieties, but it's really mostly the same chassis with different weapons, they also have the preceptor, which is unique to the faction. They also have bondsman abilities, which are command phase buffs to armigers. Chaos knights have one datasheet that lets you mix and match all the imperial weapons. Then there's the three you can build from the chaos knight kit, which includes two variants unique to the faction. The chaos equivalent to the preceptor is the abominant, a psychic knight. Chaos knights provide re-roll auras, not targeted buffs. Chaos also have more variety in the small knights, the war dogs come in three flavours including pure ranged and pure melee, and fill some gaps in the big knights capabilities. Despite what some have said, Khorne isn't 'the strongest', Khorne isn't even a sub faction and you can pick and choose marks and all god's have useful ones. There's a chaos undivided one that's actually the strongest, picking it doesn't prevent you taking others

[@trazyntheinfinitearchivist7866]

Well this is conveniently timed. I literally just picked up a Knight for my collection.

[@stripeybag6977]

Still wish Knights had more characters.

[@Surtur04]

I really wish you'd do a review of the Cerastus Knight Lancer.

[@Backstabmacro]

Here’s a quick one: It’s Bad. I love mine, but without Bondsman or the ability to use a lot of stratagems cheaply (or at all), the Cerastus class is dead in the water.

[@xbwicoreturns8466]

This was much needed, thank you so much!

[@Mr_Waffle.]

Seems a bit weird that the biggest and most expensive plastic set (Dominus) is also not worth taking. I guess that's good if you haven't bought one already but too bad if you own one

[@Doireallyneedoneofthese]

For me it is just such a shame that as a knight player I feel so disincentivised to bring big knights. I feel like I have to run armigers to have any chance and that's not why I play/collect Kinghts.

[@jaycepentad9535]

If you want to field 0 Armigers that would be hard, I agree. But several people have done well in large events with 3 Questoris and 4 Armigers, which I find to be a fine compromise as a fellow big knight enjoyer. 5-0 and 4-1 results in GTs with FBL and some Taranis lists that I have seen, usually a Crusader/Paladin/Errant or Gallant, then 1:3 or 2:2 Helverin/Warglaive. I'm sure plenty of variations would work fine in less hardcore competitive play!

[@steffen_k]

Rad-cleansers aren't separate weapon arms. They are part of the siege-claw.

[@mtareinzbern5644]

May I know which part Super Heavy Walkers allow titanic unit to fall back and shoot ? i might misread it coz i cant find it, thanks

[@dariusrook2592]

Love your introductions.

[@Noogus]

Taking an Inquisitor does not block out faction Secondaries

[@milliman4]

I wish there was a channel like this for SAGA II

[@TheKlawwGang888]

My own headcanon is that the bigger the titan the deeper the voice of the Princeps piloting it. Command & Conquer logic. "redeemer redeeming..."

[@twilightwyrm]

At least until they update the Forgeworld book, it is worth noting that those knights still have the x3 attacks stomps. It is also worthy noting that the Thunderstomp stratagem exists....

[@superkamigoru]

The forgeworld knights lost the triple stomps. Thier data sheets reference the main codex for the wargear information

[@twilightwyrm]

@@superkamigoru Are the rules not printed in the Forgeworld Compendium?

[@superkamigoru]

@@twilightwyrm depends on the war gear. Some don't list it and force you to reference to main codex to look it up.

[@MrKehoeOUT]

Refuse no challege is generally weaker than lay low the tyrants but sees play in the freeblade Lance mostly becuase unlike lay low you won't lose honor points with its troth if you dont kill two things.

[@geonsilberlicht4632]

Hey, Ork Player here, I am considering getting the knights christmas box for some looted super-heavy goodness. How do I build knights armied to be as orky as possible? The refuse no challenge oaths for reroll advances and charges sounds orky to me, for example.

[@Charles-qu5rz]

IF YOU HAVE Bits from a orkonaut would work well as a kitbash

[@geonsilberlicht4632]

@@Charles-qu5rz rules-wise.

[@Mathiasosx1]

Protect those in need could be flavored as getting stuck into the fight with Da boyz. Any alleigence could work but I think Questor imperialis makes the most sense for Orks. House Griffith for extra attacks on the charge. Though the martial traditions Fontline fighters or Hunters of beasts could work. Standard armigers fit quite well with Orks. Helverins have a lot of dakka and the Warglaives are quite stabby. The bigger knights a case could be made for any though definitely favoring Questoris pattern knights with a close combat weapon maybe excluding the perceptor.

[@CMTechnica]

@@geonsilberlicht4632you don’t

[@fredbrochu8322]

Haven't watched the video yet as of writing this, but personally I'd like for a way to make pure big knight list of interesting synergies. Maybe the bondsman ability can be given to the knight itself but give a lesser buff?

[@Backstabmacro]

The Princeps exalted court buff allows the model to give its Bondsman ability to other Questoris. Wish it wasn’t chassis-locked, though; I’d love to give a Dominus or Cerastus rerolls or +1 BS.

[@ghostman246]

How is the knight errant able to take the herald exalted court upgrade? Free blades can’t take exalted court upgrades

[@jnoble32000]

In that Taranis list how is each Knight able to receive an Exalted Court upgrade and a warlord upgrade. Aren’t those restricted to one character and only one character per detachment?

[@ultrasquid7901]

Could anyone be so nice and elaborate if and why an arminger detachment keep their special rules when I add one to my marine army ? Would be awesome.

[@marcuskarlsson8535]

Look at the detachment rules for imperial knights. 3 armigers qualify for "wandering hero", giving them agent of the imperium, meaning you keep your marine stuff. They also qualify for "unyielding knight" wich gives you "counts as 5 models". But you don't get household traditions or allegiance oaths.

[@ultrasquid7901]

@@marcuskarlsson8535 thank you very much !

[@pablovazquez8922]

You cannot put relics to Cerastus knights lol

[@DarkKnightCuron]

I still want to get into thr big Knights, but figuring out a list and a paint scheme makes me rather apprehensive about the whole thing.

[@CMTechnica]

I’d recommend looking through the houses before deciding on units. Vulker doesn’t really have a reason to run melee units despite the fact melee knights hit like a walking nuclear bomb, for example. It all really depends on how you want your knights to play. You can go all ranged, all melee, a mix, across pretty much every chassis. Honestly the one thing I don’t like about knights is fixed loadouts. That’s it.

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

I might buy a Knight or two just to paint as a display piece

[@guerrillavanilla]

Super-Heavy Walker gives fall back and charge, but not fall back and shoot 😮

[@ehlersgj]

But Titanic does. A technicality, sure. Also something I've learned. You can still fallback as an Abominant and do psyche powers. Suck it, Corpse Worshippers!

[@guerrillavanilla]

@@ehlersgj wym Titanic does? I'm not aware of any rule like that

[@ehlersgj]

@@guerrillavanilla go read the Fall Back rule in the main core rulebook.

[@guerrillavanilla]

@@ehlersgj huh, I guess you're right

[@osogitzgraymane72]

Heavy psyker armies are also problematic; tyranid, Grey knights, tzeentch

[@cavemansam8400]

Laughs in Shadow Sword

[@MitchelTJones]

This might be a good time for me to ask for help to settle a debate with a knight player regarding ruins and line of sight. The knight player thinks that when they touch their model against the outside of the ruin wall they no longer need to draw line of sight to models/units hiding behind/outside of that ruin, regardless if there is another solid wall inbetween the two units. Picture a ruin with three or four walls, two of which are between the two units. My belief is that when the knight touches the ruin they can now ignore obscuring but still need to be able to see the unit they are trying to target. Any help with this is greatly appreciated as it's been a hot topic for the past few days in my play group.

[@lamMeTV]

I want an overview like this for Votann

[@smatting2627]

Want the Christmas box set. How hard is it to convert them to Chaos?

[@gabrielhinsley4142]

Not hard, pretty sure the questoris of both share the same weapons. Mostly aesthetic, so you can just add spiky bits and grim to chaos it up

[@smatting2627]

@@gabrielhinsley4142 so the imperial knight boxes don’t come with a chaos sprue but the chaos knights are just imperial knights with a chaos sprue added?

[@timunderbakke8756]

@@smatting2627 no, they’re different sprues entirely. If you pick up a chaos dex, it points out how some models cannot be made from chaos kits but must be sourced from the imperial knight kit instead. The chaos kits are unique to chaos. You can use any knight kit for *something* chaos. You cannot use the chaos kits for imperial, rules as written

[@chetmanley1885]

The datasheets, except for the preceptor, are all in the chaos book, you're free to pick almost any weapon on the big knight. It's best to magnetise to be able to swap. The Armiger Warglaives (war dog Huntsman for chaos) aren't great though. They're ok, not amazing.

[@CMTechnica]

Depends if they throw in the CK sprue in the Christmas box

[@chucktyler4057]

Could Imperial Knights ally with other Imperium factions?

[@thebastard890]

Yes, freeblade rules for Imperium and Dreadblade rules for Chaos knights.

[@banis1980]

How does armigers get - 1 dmg?

[@fiole666]

So many layers of buffs, that's stodgy. The codex layout is bad, your review helps a lot but it's still quite complex to make some choice and forget nothing.

[@tysonrussell7086]

I don’t think knights can fallback and shoot?

[@BloodyArchangelus]

WE DONT HAVE IMPERIAL KNIGHTS, WE HAVE IMPERIAL ARMIGERS. Round.

[@stevewest8987]

dont think you csn use your auto 6 for the mortal strat.

[@matjov]

You neglect to mention how bad they are in smaller games, like 1K. Not everyone plays 2K all the time!

[@artamesfrost4179]

Well let me tell you about this new army that passes out judgment tokens. When any model has 3 of them on it they take a wound on a 4+ hit. Doesn't matter how much toughness you have. Add in this army has no armour of contempt the bikes of said army can dish out enough to take out your big boy 18+ wounds in a go.

[@kpatterson14206]

Knights are an army I just could not care less about. I get some elite armies exist but it's like they're just playing a different game. I think making them an entire army of their own was a mistake at the 40k scale/level. That being said just commenting and liking for the algorithm.

[@LordNerfherder]

I dont want to play against an army of only superheavies. We have tried it and decided that 5 wraithknights being meta was toxic for the game. These types of lists were stopped for a reason. It is a game of armies.

[@jacob4life]

Knights broken af. Calc targetting => 20+ mw per turn

[@chetmanley1885]

It's 2 to 4 CP. It's really not that good. I can do more than that with Eldar

[@jacob4life]

@@chetmanley1885 not t1 from your dz you cant. there´s a reason its expensive.

[@Damnedlegion40k]