Importance of Nomads in Eurasian History - Thomas Barfield

Source - serious-science.org/videos/1151
Boston University Prof. Thomas Barfield on Xiongnu empire, Genghis Khan, and mongolian tax policy

[@shpl3861]

This professor is full of wisdom and hidden knowledge , full of pearls. I first came across one of his presentation on Afghanistan yesterday to have some deeper understanding about the quagmire we find ourselves into, and I was blown away by his deep analysis about Afghan culture and politics. I wish there were more uploads of his presentations and interviews on youtube.

[@coreycox2345]

This talk is excellent, Sh Pl.

[@catstealer419dominion7]

Same, I’ve watched a few of his Afghanistan talks. It’s quality.

[@intellectualninjamonkey2496]

He is also deadly serious in style. I like that when the subject is history. I hate jokes and silly quotes when it comes to history.

[@3BlueHaze]

@@intellectualninjamonkey2496 he does joke tho in his lectures, not just in this one.

[@intellectualninjamonkey2496]

@@3BlueHaze you mean inside the classroom? Ok, that is not so bad. Are you one of his students?

[@Theguys1]

This is so excellent…have just discovered Prof. Barfiel and I am hooked.

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

This type of dynamic is fairly common in various species of Eusocial animals. Massive sedentary societies: Termites, Leafcutter ants Nomads that specialize in raiding sedentary societies (nomadism allows access to a larger number of prey colonies): Driver ants, Army ants Sedentary societies that rely on conquering other sedentary societies: Polyergus and certain types of formica ants. Methods of colony invasion range from brute force to simply running in quickly with as many raiders as possible and running away with the larva. Raiders usually gave features that allow them to kill or evade the raided species and rapidly drag its brood back to the colony. Sedentary species have also evolved defenses. Both leafcutters and termites have large soldier or large worker castes with very powerful mandibles. Did nomadic behavior evolve purely for raiding other social species or did nomadism simply provide the tools for raiding? I lean towards the second. -There are army ants that do not specialize in raiding other eusocial animals, but their mobility and weaponry is not far off from what is needed. -Aside from raiding, nomads typically relied on herding. The tools and skills necessary for this lifestyle were suited for war. Is conquest inherently desirable? Direct control of social order is only common among closely same or related species of ant (use of captured larva for labor or assuming control of a colony after killing the queen). Control is difficult if they don't think you're one of them.

[@eungchul]

Do driver ants mimick termites in terms of social organization? Like the xiongnu nomads organized itself in response to the sedentary han dynasty? (The phenomenon of shadow empire as thomas barfield says)

[@adamata798]

Mr.Barfield,thank you for incredible work done. Can you please share information about Naimans. They had biggest population in Eurasia before Genghis Khan invasion. Scholars of Naiman country later will serve as advisors for Genghis Khan. All modern Eurasian nations have Naimans as part of their ethnicity. Having great influence that time,we don't hear about them nowadays. I think understanding history of Naimans will make clear understanding of Eurasian region.

[@crossfire7474]

"The Mongols showed them(Feudal Europe) how to rule on an imperial basis". A pearl of wisdom for history right there.

[@sammyttheg412]

Thoughts on turkic nomads? I'm living in Turkey (from US) I want to know more about gokturk and the similarities and differences between mongols. You have an amazing speaking voice and ability to paint the bigger picture

[@cagriozkan1936]

Shortly same life style same military structute but different religion different cultere and art. Of course it changes time to time. If you want me to explain and learn more let me know.

[@antiv]

Fantastic teacher.

[@FairfaxMuayThai]

Great storyteller

[@elvampirochino]

Thanks professor

[@Rajj854]

He’s a great teacher.

[@legendsson]

I came across with thomas barfield’s videos via this channel.Couple days later I read a book of peter b. Golden and he gives refferences to a certain barfield.I know see who the barfield is.I really want to obtain his book “Perilous Frontier” which is about the subject he delivers in this speech.Plus his anthropologic views works videos and expriences on afghan society is also noteworthy.

[@jannissaries]

Smart fella

[@andrewsung3965]

11:27 was there a reason why Mongol nomads provide security for the silk roads in your video?

[@Callumtrain]

Fascinating

[@johnvonshepard9373]

Fascinating.

[@tulparkultigintengrikut8440]

400 weeks 1 meeks

[@gofar5185]

professor, thank you for exactly wording the philosophy of china to negotiate, to negotiate to negotiate with tribute to pacify the grasslands people... that DECISIVE WAR is used ONLY as a LAST RESORT...

[@gofar5185]

there is record in the tsar dynasties that they sent envoys to bandits and negotiated for the material needs of the attackers...

[@Suckerx911]

Full of Wisdoms

[@qutub-ul-walikhan2459]

Professor, I want to know about the socio-economic of Arabs from prophet Ibrahim till the demise of prophet muhammad sa

[@ellendibble8380]

I've been reading that the Mongol strategy was to extort/vanquish and then, in withdrawing and being chased, would treat this as opportunity to entrap and slaughter those chasing them. ... Also, how about nomads of the desert? Was the Islamic expansion, on horseback, similar? I'm thinking, not much, since it began as a system of governance/ideology.

[@salmaabdullahielmi6182]

Islamic expansion lacked a fixed system of government indeed the early periods of conquering Persia the Levant and Egypt was due to effective military stategies and local diplomacy rather than fixed political ideology. The early arabs lacked a "macro-leveled" political ideology and a overarching idea of how governement should be. Therefore the govermental bureaucracy and systems was largely left the way they were regionally. Persian and, even roman-bysantine, governemental organisations became the normative forms of empire-government during the earliest dynastic eras.

[@paulroese1376]

who were the Nomadic equivalents of Archimedes, Ptolemy, Al-Khwarizmi, Aristotle, Copernicus, da Vinci, Pasteur, Mozart or Tesla? what advances in science and tech did nomads like the Mongols make that created the Industrial Revolution. what were the rights of citizens in Nomadic empires?

[@masih9595]

To answer your question:none

[@paulroese1376]

@@masih9595 that's what i thought. these rebranding efforts to make the nomadic wreckers and looters into some sort of progressive vanguard are absurd. the nomads never were able to establish sustainable geopolitical states that lasted long. they left nothing much in the way of infrastructure behind. they made no advances to humanity but rather were agents of mass murder and destruction.

[@changamanga3419]

You are comparing two very different animals. He is narrating the importance of Nomads in Europe.

[@paulroese1376]

@@changamanga3419 you mean Eurasia. other than Russia, Ukraine a few areas of Eastern Europe the Mongols main legacy was the creation of the "Yellow Peril" myth. certainly the civilizations of Eurasia could have done quite fine without any input from the nomads especially the Mongols.

[@changamanga3419]

@@paulroese1376 Central Asia with its silk route were made to suffer during Imperial Britain rule & later during the US role in South Asia by denying them free access to the Indian Ocean. Trade was encouraged only on the sea lanes, where US held monopoly. Opening the land routes will once again free the silk route trade, with no danger of political sanctions and blockades.

[@minustar]

Very informative. Great powerful nomadic empires rise only if next to great powerful sedentary empires like Han china. In europe. You never had such a powerful entity, that's Why you never had strong nomadic states in the west

[@ruslanprovodnikov4584]

+minustar not necessarily true - look at eastern europe like the avars, bulgars, khazars etc and of course scythians/alans/roxalans. but the main reason in my opinion is a lack of steppe land. to be eurasian nomad you need the eurasian steppe - this area of land has a both a beginning and an end and naturally therefore is restrictive to the societies once they reach the outer limits who must make decisions regarding how they can sustain their people best. (sedentary). that said I agree with your point also it is necessary for a nomadic polity what wants to expand and last for it to be close to or have access to sedentary states. Not necessarily empires, which can have negative effects on the nomads through desire to control/subdue, but preferably in my opinion city states, and trading centres along the silk road where revenue can be generated and the goods which you need to supplement diet and necessary goods and people with skills can also be bought with that revenue. And as the professor mentioned the ability to control passing trade through their region allows for further revenue as well as demands of tribute from local states and polities. The altai mountain range is a beautiful example of the control of trade leading to establishment of a flourishing society and culture as well as growth of a regional power. This can also be linked the nabatean kingdom who rose to power through economic means, by dominating trade routes, establishing and pioneering new routes and forcing majority of trade passing through their region to pay tithe/tribute/tax. Notably Petra is situated in a narrow canyon pass which trade must have passed through on the important frankincense road. Control of this would have provided significant revenue for the rulers who can use their wealth to build on their kingdom/empire.

[@olafuragustgudmundsson4464]

Vikings maybe the closest approximation?

[@balazskiss985]

gyöngyös kan = pearly male = ginghis khan csengős kan = belly male, male horse with bells on (like shamans/khams clothes with pearls and bells)

[@arsaytoma]

Sounds very similar to the Comanche and their relationship with New Spain

[@gofar5185]

it is in the late 19th century that west europe capitalism/colonialism in east asia who taught marginalization of nomads and peasants... city people were taught: nomads and peasants are poor and pitiful because they dont have money... fortunately, lenin and bolsheviks brought the marx book of communism... this started the ecognizing and acknowledging ethnic identities and ethnic dignities... fortunately, beijing moscow teheran recognized acknowledged and STOOD UP TO THIS TIME... wherein identities and dignities of ethnicities are recognized acknowledged RESPECTED... as always been since boddhidharma wanderings...

[@jayfloramusic]

Now it makes sense why the Chinese have animosity towards the Uyghurs.

[@davidwalsh7418]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIq4nnV6f7WLbM0

[@gofar5185]

kindly allow me to further add... dynasties give nomads what they ask... because there are enlightened people who advise dynasty bodies that nomads attack during natural calamities... in east asia west asia eurasia... the china great wall initiated by the qin dynasty... further added by succeeding dynasties... it is in the record of ming dynasty that scholars/advisers to rulers attacked and assimmilated nomads hired some nomad men to the military...

[@mackenshaw8169]

Ya gotta have steppe cred.

[@changamanga3419]

The world (western) had forgotten Central Asia. After Afghanistan, suddenly all aspects of CA history are becoming important. This was the Real World always for almost 2000 years and now it will re-emerge on the world map. Forget America.

[@user-dc4bl1cu2k]

Conan the Barbarian is an excellent depiction of the Eurasian nomadic steppe-lands.

[@csabas1971]

In England there is many many Temple of Mars witch was build up by this Nomads. Herodotos clearly telling you how they build this piramid type building. When the Hun attacked the Roman Empire Skithya was 10 times bigger than Roma, the army was 1.000.000 warrior. But Mr A. E. Thompson was call this army 160 or maybe 6000. This guy doing the same mistake. 6000 people can not attack Rome at the same time in Karthago, In Bizante, In Hungary and Catalunia. If someone interested I can show you how the early Chineese alphabet coming from the HUn alphabet? How the Futhark coming from the Hun Alphabet, how many Hun text written in your Saxon finding, etc. etc. This picture is full of mistakes like this!

[@oldtimetinfoilhatwearer]

This nigga spittin

[@gofar5185]

thank you serious science... thank you professor... all respect to your clear & concise lecture that connectingly touched the thru silkroute china trade, mongolia war fares, russia, iran, desert arabs, turks, & other people beyond russia... i also watched great master lee kuan yew shows... why dont western imperialists/supremacists watch your professional lectures & great master lee kuan yew lectures/interviews...? up to this 21st century, washingtonians(lee kuan yew term) are STILL TOO PERSISTENT in their SOUR ANTAGONISM ATTEMPTS OF DESTABILIZING CHINA TO WEAKEN russia....? the intensity of the desire of britain & washingtonians to subjugate the asean people is now too irritating...

[@balazskiss985]

is he john malkovitch?

[@steveh4521]

[Yelling across the Steppe] Hey You can't just keep doing this extortion appeasement!!! [Mongol Ridding a horse escaping across the steppe] It's a legitimate strategy!!!

[@bn2870]

John Malkovich

[@James197511]

jingis kan was 2 Attila was the first

[@megasalexander927]

Turks are main nomads out there. No mongols. Mongolian army was consisted of Turkic tribes as well, mostly.

[@lindyswing4368]

Mark Hamil.... hogging up my recommendations again.

[@baconsans431]

Khubilai ruled China

[@paulroese1376]

i totally agree with him about the nomads being more like criminals running a protection racket than anything else. they were mostly about the smash and grab and not to set up sustainable political units. he seems to dismiss the incredible destruction and horror the Mongols and Timurid forces unleashed upon Eurasia in their short interval. In stark contrast to the sedentary empires, these nomad empires were personality-based. They were created and they were maintained over time by nothing but the charisma, skill, and personal brute force of the tough guy at the top. The instant heroic leadership at the top became lacking, a horse nomad empire was prone to rapidly disintegrate. Any horse nomad empire that lasted longer than three generations of a ruling dynasty should be considered remarkable for its longevity. The overwhelming impression one gets of the horse nomad empires is their ephemeral, here today, gone tomorrow quality. Timephased maps of old Eurasia show steady-state situations at the Roman-Byzantine western end and the Chinese eastern end. But they show a churning whirlpool in the steppes between.

[@Fariza1993]

But this tactic of nomads helped to win the world war 2 for Soviet Union. Did you ever read book "volokolamsk highway" where the new strategies of war included. The book about SOviet hero Bayurzhan Momushuly, a Asian Nomad that made a strategy to win the army with huge mass by less number of people. He was riding a horse during the war and made unbelievable things. The book was a mandatory for soldiers and commanders for many countries as Israil, China, Cuba, etc. Castro also invited him to Cuba, so he worked with him. Moreover, nazi army lost because of ex- nomad people. Even they were first combatants, who raised the flag of victory over the building of the Reichstag in Berlin.

[@user-kk9vu5mm1r]

Тётя Фая! Вы Крутая!!!

[@jannissaries]

Paul Roese that Crip Timurid beat the ottomans in open feild but lost a battle fighting ottomans in the mountains.

[@biodynamic2700]

This is like the barbary pirates... look up the american tripoli war

[@friedrichkass1644]

Mr. Barfield the original Huns, the Xiongnu originated from the Cimmerians! The ancient Cimmerians are actually proto-Huns, Xiongnu!

[@odilbekb-sarkaev1052]

www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/597997v1

[@gofar5185]

as to why a slogan SERIOUS SCIENCE get interested in nomads is rather amusing... east asia west asia and eurasia has POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY & LOGIC... that western europe is TOO IGNORANT of and about...

[@mdanett8042]

The prof seem to have been studying time from chingizkhan onwards while turkic tribes existed and mastered the Eurasia for thousands of years previously. Turkic tribes and chinese states were interdependent phenomena, and that cultural cohesion continues today. 2) Looting became a profession for chingizkhan supported by Vatikan. If you really want to understand how things work here, you should start from climate and geography.

[@protectorategeneral]

Where did you learn your history? Xiong nu was crushed by han so it collapsed .that gave xianbei a chance to rise.so was western and eastern Turks -Tang.

[@gofar5185]

western europe is very particular of PRIDE & PREJUDICE... east asia west asia eurasia are very particular with IDENTITY DIGNITY... AND... RESPECT...

[@gofar5185]

paul roese comment.... you are too ignorant about nomads including freelance peasants... nomads are not bandits... literature that you read are for money making business... DISCERNING & COMMON SENSE IS VERY VERY NECCESSARY...

[@levolevo1059]

they were not just mongols you know tht ,, you are asking wrong questions and answers are wrong ,,, where you will put the Turks in there ,, all those geog, area you talking are Turks ,,,,,

[@samhaslemere7471]

They hate to hear "Turks". Mongols are easy to handle nowadays. If Mongolia was in a better situation currently, they would describe all people Turks. Western bias.

[@gofar5185]

influx of migration of called refugees is now a TOTAL CONFUSION in western europe... because of western europe TOTAL IGNORANCE OF POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY & LOGIC... the logic and philosophy of assimmilating total peoples and lands... not simply taking in runaway peoples...

[@diogenes5118]

The West ignored this scholar at their cost. Two trillion dollars.

[@zhao784]

His lecture from years ago on Afghanistan was just superb

[@gofar5185]

... maybe... serious science is right to delve and explore on nomads in eurasia history... political philosophy & logic in handling nomads that included freelance peasants... beijing moscow and teheran are strong civilizations not because they are materially abundant... it is simply because they have knowledge of political philosophy and logic... they have solid foundations of principled societies...

[@biodynamic2700]

How come the vatican is turning into a real estate agency run by childmolesors? More knowlwedge there then anywhere else. Stop being so personally attqched to shit that happened 1000 yrs ago

[@gofar5185]

@@biodynamic2700 vatican is an institute empire... not civilization empiredoms...

[@gofar5185]

@@biodynamic2700 mind yourself... thank you...

[@biodynamic2700]

@@gofar5185 vatican and the christening? Jesuists? Colonialism? World Chridtendom? Even turkey has their alphabet... vatican is big in banking too.

[@Leningrad_Underground]

Just an idle thought, regarding the last comments on the learning of politics on the western fringe esp Russia. Gangersters teaching Gangerism. Is it that the Western Europeans have always seen Russia and Russian as Gangersters & criminals. Even the climate is "Criminal". with the "Rite of Spring " in the background. So sad to see such confusion and ignorance of people and their narrative. Thanks, on my knees in respect for such scolarship.

[@gofar5185]

rusian provodnikov is right in its thesis... BUT... one factor MISSED is the dynasties in east asia west asia eurasia has COMMON RESPECT to the nomads and freelance peasants choice of living their lives/small societies... WHILE... monarchies in western europe are GREEDY & ENVIOUS...

[@gofar5185]

DYNASTIES in east asia west asia and eurasia RESPECTED NOMADS CHOICE OF THEIR LIFE.. and leave them to their choice of life... kindly differentiate NOMADS to BANDITS...

[@alitaqwa8501]

Watch ,,.,THE LADY OF HEAVEN Movie trailer 🎬👌,,, and thank you

[@superwog8229]

White Europeans, came from the steppes, they are not from Europe; they are actually Eurasians from Central Asia and Siberia....

[@ashleigh3021]

Wrong.

[@moreston4366]

He's not wrong, most European people are directly descended (father to son) from Nomadic Pastoralists from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, they are assumed to have been the original Indo-European peoples who brought the Indo-European language group into Europe. And originally these Nomads were descendants of Siberian Hunter Gatherers and a few near eastern populations. The major difference between these guys and modern Eurasian Nomads was race, they were Caucasoid whilst modern Nomads are generally Mongoloid, but in general they're very similar with a few differences in animals, the fact our ancestors didn't ride horses instead they drove chariots and wagons etc etc.

[@ashleigh3021]

Indo-europeans were only one population. Europeans are descended from 3 populations: Yamnaya people, upper paleolithic hunter gatherers and Anatolian farmers.

[@moreston4366]

Yes but our direct ancestor's were the Indo-Europeans, our culture was highly influenced by them too, and in North-Western Europe, the Steppe DNA is the majority. And btw it's Western Hunter Gatherers and Near Eastern Farmers not Paleolithic Hunter Gatherers (of whom everyone descends anyway) and Anatolian Farmers.

[@moreston4366]

Although I should say, the Proto-Indo-Europeans were not white, they were slightly lighter skinned than WHG but white skin didn't really evolve till roughly 8,000 years ago when we changed diet to mostly farmed grains and such.

[@zlarry2008]

Huns = Hungary

[@wololoooxd3288]

Z Larry lol no