Indo-European Dispersals and the Eurasian Steppe with J.P. Mallory

J. .P Mallory speaks on Indo-European Dispersals and the Eurasian Steppe at the Silk Road Symposium held at the Penn Museum held in March 2011.
Contacts between Europe and China that bridged the Eurasian steppelands are part of a larger story of the dispersal of the Indo-European languages that were carried to Ireland (Celtic) in the west and the western frontiers of China (Tokharian, Iranian) in the east. Reviewing some of the problems of these expansions 15 years ago, the author suggested that it was convenient to discuss the expansions in terms of several fault lines -- the Dnieper, the Ural and Central Asia. The Dnieper is critical for resolving issues concerning the different models of Indo-European origins and more recent research forces us to reconsider the nature of the Dnieper as a cultural border. Recent research has also suggested that we need to reconsider the eastern periphery of the Indo-European world and how it relates to its western neighbors.
J.P. Mallory is Professor of Prehistoric Archaeology at Queen's University, Belfast, Northern Ireland.
More at www.penn.museum

[@laurasmith3243]

J. P. Mallory's studies, once publicly denigrated with ad hominem vile arguments, have been finally prooven correct by different studies conducted with different approches of different sciences. He has been a pioneer of positive social sciences' studies on this matter. Therefore, he is a genius, indeed.

[@Naiant]

Thanks for posting it. If I got nothing from it but knowing how Mallory sounds and how the names of some cultures are pronounced it would have been worth it, but there's so much more.

[@anotherelvis]

Regarding the spread of Indoeuropean languages in Europe, google for a Nature article named "dna-data-explosion-lights-up-the-bronze-age". Here is a quote from the article > Allentoft and his colleagues found evidence for migration, in the form of a massive shift in the genetic make-up of northern and central Europeans at the start of the Bronze Age. Before 3000 bc, their genomes resembled those of early farmers from the Middle East and even earlier European hunter-gatherers. By 2000 bc, their genomes looked more like those of people from the Yamnaya culture, which arose on the steppe around 2900 bc.

[@robinswamidasan]

This video lecture may be related kzbin.info/www/bejne/epyZZoeYf7eBlaM

[@apo.7898]

If they sample SW Ireland during the time of the 'massive shift', they may find that the massive shift didn't really happen.

[@gcrecords1731]

Apostolos Papadimitriou listen theirish celto scotish gypsie is from scito cimmerians among scito saka father's of roma gypsie turkhis iranians from uyghur saka kazak children's of scytians among scityians siberyans languages sanskritt from iran originated

[@timflatus]

@@gcrecords1731 please learn to form sentences. :D

[@timflatus]

@@apo.7898 Cunliffe would certainly agree with that.

[@nergizgunduz]

Most interestingly, Old Saxon and Germanic in general can be shown to have a large percentage of non-indo-european substrate words (such as “Sheep”,”eel”,”roe”,”boar”,”lentil”,”land”,”delve” and ”prick”) derived from a long-lost prehistoric Northern Europen language .

[@kabud]

+nergiz gündüz “Sheep”,”eel”,”roe”,”boar”,”lentil”,”land”,”delve” and ”prick” - all sound perfectly `Slavic` to me. Sanscrit roots indeed same as in Slavic languages

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Now here you're taking more sense. The idea that Germanic could be a creole, or partial creole, is well established and makes a lot of sense to me. Besides the vocabulary evidence, in grammar and phonology too there are major shifts from the Indo-European ancestor, implying some kind of strong influence from another language.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

They may be inherited from Proto-Germanic, but that does not mean that Proto-Germanic inherited them from PIE or that it is not a creole. You say some are from PIE, I don't know I haven't checked, but what about the others? It's notable that PGc has gained a lot of mystery vocabulary from somewhere. It also gained some mystery grammar, e.g. the whole verb tense system was replaced. Then there's the wholesale sound shift that looks like a language being spoken by a people used to a language with a more fortis base of obstruents. This has not happened to other branches of IE, even in different ways. And just because an idea is dismissed by some doesn't mean someone proposing it isn't making sense.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Perhaps it was only a semi-creole? I think it's a mistake to assume there are only creoles and non-creoles, sharply divided. Perhaps the difference with other branches is not one of type, but of scale. Considering how many tenses there were in PIE, reduction to present and past is not 'merely'. The past tense is also formed with a completely new termination. I am sure languages like Latin and Sanskrit have innovations, even mysterious ones, but to what extent doe these reshape the whole grammar system? How *core* are the imported words? Do all those other laws involve such a wholesale set of shifts as Grimm's Law? Then there is the fact that it shows affinity with both Italo-Celtic and Balto-Slavic. Finally, the fact that this idea is dismissed by a majority of linguists doesn't meant it's wrong. It means it's not currently popular, based on current understandings of the evidence base, the nature of creoles etc. That could all change. I accept that Nergiz is unlikely to play any part in that.

[@clintonreisig]

To me, this indicates strong mixing of two or more cultures, but the amount of PIE originated words in Germanic languages which are cognatively widespread in Indo-European languages is obvious. Many are wondering if migration and spread of Corded Ware Culture is precisely this event of pastoral farmers encountering static farmers in Northern Europe, resulting in eventual proto-Germanic. Perhaps the same thing happened a bit further south which resulted in the appearance of proto-Celtic

[@Survivethejive]

great lecture

[@GonzaloMoreiraLinguist]

Your favourite part was the professor's response to the question in minute 37:23 regarding DNA tests, which you consider 'conclusive', wasn't it, you 'historian'? LOL

[@leifvulfila8837]

I know of this Jive :)

[@exocet8834]

Gonzalo Moreira What would be the problem about that?

[@hellslounge6823]

great dogma

[@elsargente]

VERY

[@federook78]

Legendary JP Mallory. I've been a fan for ever since I read In Search of the Indo Europeans :)

[@vecvan]

JPM has a good humor and an admirable wealth of knowledge. Dealing with the Package beginning around the 20:30 mark is well wortwhile. Albeit a lot remains to be answered and Mallory's predictions and convictions are always quoted out of context and mischaracterized. Good on him setting the record straight.

[@Slovjan]

Mallory is outstanding scientist, indoeuropean archeologist....I love his book's and recomand them for everyone who is interested in the temathic- his books are currently best...

[@mzeewatk846]

maybe indo-european became a lingua franca first, and later became established as a common language between migrating populations.

[@jfjoubertquebec]

37:28 "I would love to hear about your distrust for modern DNA evidence" The answer raised a few interesting criticisms... though I respect the work of geneticists... I think it might be a good idea to have more people involved in discussing the possible interpretations made from the raw data.

[@dinsel9691]

He does NOT understand genetics. He misrepresented the Hungarian dna studies... a quote from the study " "genetic heritage of the Conquerors definitely persists in modern Hungarians in almost 1/8th of recent Hungarian gene pool." So why would he claim otherwise?

[@whatabouttheearth]

This is from 2011

[@anotherelvis]

The talk is from 2011. Today the Yamnaya hypothesis has been confirmed by the study of DNA from ancient skeletons.

[@1LEAKz]

Explain further?

[@davepx1]

@@1LEAKz The breakthrough piece was Haak et al, "Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe", Nature, Mar 2015. A quick google should find it. The finding doesn't rule out an earlier introduction by Anatolian farmers, still predominating in Greece/Crete for over a millennium after the steppe migration and perhaps the basis of Greek. But elsewhere that seems to have been "overwritten" by the later arrival.

[@RM-yf2lu]

Y-DNA analysis has now completely invalidated this information.

[@memorydrain7806]

Confirmed by who or what?

[@countbooga6997]

​@@RM-yf2luno it hasnt, are you joking? Y dna 100% proved the yamnaya hypothesis. The indian governemnt itself put out research showing that brahmin have yamnaya Y dna. Europeans dont have specifically yamnaya, we have an offshoot of yamnaya that lived in the ukranian forests while the yamnaya were the plains people and migrated to india, eastern asia, and iran. Quit spouting europhobic info that has been proven false by multiple groups of scientists of diferrent ethnicities and cultures.

[@Wickbam1985]

In case I am being too verbose or convoluted, I am agreeing with the mainline Kurgan hypothesis.

[@tonymontana4161]

This guy is epic. Super funny and very knowledgeable. So yup u can be both.

[@knavishknight]

You need to pay attention to Globular Amphora 3400-2800, which showed intrusive Steppic elemnts, such as animal offerings, & animal burials, which is foreign. The Baden cul-de-sac may be interesting due to many urns & cattle burials found there. Corded Ware which follows GA had Steppic tumuli also. R1a-M420 is present in Anatolia, so forebears of PIE-speakers might have dwelt there, but I think 1 population, carrying subclade M417, enter the Steppes, formed PIE, the migrate back to Europe.

[@rickybuhl3176]

I often feel that academia gets lost in translation through the tabloid and social media but when they remove the middleman, we get so much more of an insight. Both to the topic and the miljø.

[@gfdfgaadfgadfg2309]

what about Lepenski vir 9500/7200-6000 BC,Vinca culture 5700-4500 BC ?

[@joeshmoe8345]

Thanks

[@ZEHM89]

49872able is correct. The words for Father, Mother Sister, and Brother are of common origin, and come to English via the Germanic family which was contemporary with Sanskrit . both of which emerged from proto-Indo-European. Other examples include Agni which becomes Ignite in English and I think was brought to English via Greek. there's also Look, Aloka; Nose, Naasaa; Pour, Pura; Serpent, Sarpa; Up,Upari; Void,Voy, and Arithmatic, Arthamiti.

[@54markl]

People have various theories about that. Indo-European had to have come from some place. Some believe that Indo-European came from Eurasiatic, a part of Nostratic, and that Uralic is closely related from a long time ago.

[@jacobvandijk6525]

Thanks! But ... I am more interested in the slides and the voice of the speaker than in the back of heads in the dark. So never zoom out (after zooming in on the slides) again, please!

[@danielbrockerttravel]

There's a solution to the problems with the Anatolian hypothesis- creolization. Tok pisin is an English-based creole language spread through a need for a lingua franca in Papua New Guinea. The Bronze trade with the Hittite empire provides a plausible explanation for something similar. The bronze trade required large trade networks and the lingua franca would've been something like Hittite. And because of creolization there would've been significant differences in languages at different points in the trading network. This cuts the need for long periods of time for languages to diverge over time and instead gives a reasonable explanation for fast divergence. Haitian creole is very different from French because it is a creole. IE languages likely are as well.

[@ZEHM89]

read David Anthony. As a linguistic phenomenon, Linguistics MUST be the primary line of evidence. Even Sapir recognized that there is no direct correlation between genetics and language, and that was back in 1921. As for archaeology, persistent frontiers of material culture DO tend to correspond to ethno-linguistic boundaries, and we see such boundaries in the steppeland regions between 4000 and 2500 BCE. Precisely when and where we expect to see the urheimat.

[@ceisiwrserith2224]

So much hate in the comments, contrasting strongly with the approach in the video.

[@clintonreisig]

I disagree. Disagreement is intellectually based - not emotionally

[@knavishknight]

Very true!

[@ksailor71]

I have always wondered about this. all the indo european peoples are coming from the steppe. I wonder if the Hittite peoples went back or then became the thyracians.

[@robertolang9684]

i am 50% Hallstatt , 50% Thracian , my haplo is j1 persian , and i have more EHG THAN WHG i m from sintasha and popovo cultures so , the guy talk bulshit , early European farmers admixed with the sintasha culture people in central Europe beginning bronze age , Iberian DNA is a prove of that , and yes i trace Hittite DNA

[@tdkokoszka]

I didn't know about the revised Renfrew model until I saw this video. It made me pause, because it made a lot more sense than the previous one that had PIE speaking Anatolians migrating en-masse through the middle east, and leaving barely a trace of their language. That always sounded crazy to me. I think a model that places PIE on the steppes but Proto-Indo-Hittie somwhere else still has a slim chance of being confirmed. Maybe, just maybe, proto-Anatolian didn't come from the steppes. But even if it didn't, Tocharian, Germanic, Italic, Celtic, Balto-Slavic, Albanian, Armenian, and Indo-Iranian still did. Anatolian is the only branch that could possibly not come from the steppes. These branches are clearly sisters. Anatolian may be more of a cousin. Yet even Anatolian seems easily explained as a migrant from Europe, just as Phrygian, Greek, and Gaulish would later migrate to Asia Minor. We must remember that our view of Anatolia is biased by early writing. We know very little about what was spoken throughout the steppes or much of Europe during the 2nd millenium B.C. Much of the diversity there has no doubt been lost. Imagine if we had no writing in Anatolia until the middle ages, like with northeastern Europe. We would be scratching our heads wondering what they spoke before Greek.

[@Wickbam1985]

I'm really curious to hear his rebuttal to the recent computer modeled study claiming to support Renfrew

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

A great rebuttal of that came from Martin Lewis and Asya Pereltsvaig - they wrote a whole book, and there are several videos on KZbin.

[@noway2434]

8 years ago

[@lallyoisin]

Could distance between similar cultures be hypothesized by a cataclysmic event that simply washed away what was in between? Doggerland for example. 250 cultures around the globe have floods in their stories and art.

[@lallyoisin]

@@lambdasun4520 I was thinking along the same lines but the more I dig the more I lean towards India and cyclical restoration of order from chaos. It certainly would clear up the odd architectural anomalies around the globe and under water along shorelines. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga_Cycle#:~:text=A%20yuga%20cycle%20(%20a.k.a.,years%2C%20or%2012%2C000%20divine%20years. Sadhguru covers this very well mathematically and astronomically on youtube.

[@ruthamyallan1]

Yes, all these global flood myths from around the world which the academicians claim to be 'really' local - kinda makes you think, don't it? If it doesn't it should do.

[@lallyoisin]

@@ruthamyallan1 won't be accepted till the next one comes! 😉

[@memorydrain7806]

When the stories are different, the art is different, the cultures are different, then the only conclusion based on one particular type word is that the person suffers from parallelomania. Really makes you think.

[@lallyoisin]

@@memorydrain7806 what is it called when a narrative and it's supporters is guarded by the invention of psychoses to label any opposition to said narrative? I've had conversations with with all manor of PhDs and the honest ones all say the same thing.... Contradict the narrative at your peril... You may be right but you'll never work in this town again.

[@barbarathanks5483]

What is the H word? Herring? Why is it the name which shall not be mentioned?

[@davepx1]

The famous Steppe Herring that whinnies and stamps its hooves. :)

[@wafikiri_]

Although 'iron' of course is a word from the iron age, my suspicion is that it is related to 'fire,' not only because of similar sound in their many cognate forms (fer, ferrum...; pyr, fyr, pyra, pure...) but because of the intense fire needed to produce it from ore. As I am not a linguist but very interested, could anyone illustrate me? Could the name of the process have had a part in the naming of the product?

[@nathanielb3510]

Wafikiri Latin "ferrum" is not cognate with Greek "pyr". Many Greek words (but not all) starting with p- have a Latin cognate starting with p-, such as pes/pous, /pater/pater, etc.

[@xxxx-wh5nu]

Wafikiri In portuguese both words are similar also. Iron is ferro and fire is fogo.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

It's a great subject. :) I started studying language when I was 8.

[@IrinaAlexander1]

You came quite late to the party. Nearly all humans, unless deaf, start to learn language already in the womb and straight after birth. Did you have a hearing problem for the first 8 years of your life?

[@LinusE]

@@IrinaAlexander1 clearly you didn’t do enough reading comprehension in your early years

[@IrinaAlexander1]

@@LinusE, maybe not. But at least I passed 'humour' level 1, 2 and 3.

[@cskncsknr3937]

Hello Penn Museum, can I find Turkish version of this work(The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World: J.P. Mallory)?

[@IrinaAlexander1]

The Chipotle culture has migrated to America in recent times

[@knavishknight]

Hybrid Steppic-Farming cultures are detected east of the Tisza (Usatovo, Vucedol & Ezero) with limited Steppic intrusions. The Tisza is a poor boundary because it does NOT reach the North Sea. Yamna herders could have easily circumvented its source, Indo-Europeanized Funnelbeaker natives further North to form Corded Ware. Yamna later yielded Catacomb (Graeco-Armenian) & Srubna (Cimmero-Thracian).

[@Kirindor]

I am surprised at how political the comments are.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Read more KZbin comments on intelligent academic videos and you will no longer be surprised! You wlil, however, be depressed.

[@NDRonin1401]

Adam Christiansen this must have been your first IE video 🤣

[@magnacatra7685]

Humanity started in the Indian subcontinent

[@belstar1128]

I'm not politics are everywhere these days.

[@indrajitgupta3280]

@@magnacatra7685 Please find some humour forum and say all this there.

[@user-ox5db9pz1l]

This video is outdated. Latest findings proves that oldest metallurgy is from older Vinča culture. Not Cucuteni - which is younger culture than Vinča or Starčevo culture. Chronologically: Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) culture starts 11500 BC, Starčevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC

[@knavishknight]

That was nice. I've been tracing R1a1a-M17, the most reliable PIE marker, & also seen that its super-clade R1a-M420 is present in today Anatolia & some Eastern Med lands. Yet I am doubtful that PIE has already been formed in Anatolia though. 18,500 YoBP is way too far before wheel's invention. I think Yamna is the PIE Urheimat.

[@ZEHM89]

@loojinrome well when you decide to basically ignore the strongest evidence available, then you're kinda asking for at least one academic feud.

[@knavishknight]

You want to see those horsemen's relics, they have left burials, skeletons, weapons, horses' bones, potteries, etc.: Check out these cultures: Samara-Khvalynsk, Sredny Stog, & Dniepr Donets. Then check out Yamna, & its followers Maikop, Catacomb, Srubna, Baden, Globular Aphora, Usatovo, Ezero, Vucedol, Corded Ware-Battle Axe, Fatyanovo-Balanovo, Abashevo, Afanasevo, Andronove, & many more. Lastly, Iranic, hence Indo-European-speaking, Scythians are closest to EASTERN EUROPEANS.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

True, but there are no trolls in the video.

[@Divinezoo]

Another thing, trolling around wiki regarding the subject of Troy, you can pick up this: the oral traditions that turned into the Illiad and Odyssey were stories made up by the losers of the battle. They dispersed after defeat (I think this is why that layer of Troy was not burned) with these two stories...one of victory, recited toward those you might otherwise colonize by sword, and the other, perhaps less glorious and more entertaining meant for the more powerful hosts. Bad cop/Good cop routine.

[@seankessel3867]

Those guys sure knew how to party

[@an1rb]

The Hungarian DNA problem is easily solved by the linguistic/cultural elite dominance theory in which local Europeans pick up the language and culture of the Magyar immigrants.

[@davepx1]

That was my first thought too: how many migrated all that way? Not enough to supplant maybe half a million in modern Hungary, let alone a couple of million in the whole Carpathian basin. I think he was looking for a scientific case that "DNA is not language or culture", which is true enough.

[@an1rb]

@@davepx1 It has happened in Turkey too. A primarily Greek-Byzantine population has adopted Turkish language and culture (that hail all the way from east-central Asia).

[@davepx1]

@@an1rb Likewise England, where (though different surveys have produced varying results) it seems a Germanic minority extended its language over an pre-existing majority: here gradual expansion seems to have played a role, with the newcomers being more numerous (relatively) in their initial settlement areas and establishing their language their before subsequent advance: is there any trace of such a sequence later in Anatolia? (Much the same presumably applies to that Greek-Byzantine population itself - the historical record alone tells us that the region was already heavily populated and highly developed when they settled). I think that's largely replicated too across western Europe, with populations remaining mostly as they were as languages and cultural assemblages came and went, but my information could be a bit rusty. The DNA's fascinating, but it only tells us part of the story - perhaps especially on a thoroughfare like the steppe - which I think was Mallory's point.

[@an1rb]

@@davepx1 For a short account of the Turkish takeover of Asia Minor, see doi [dot] org/10.1163/9789004425613_007 Funny side note on Turkey: skulls from the first few generations of the Turkish graves in Anatolia show distinctive east Asian dental structure (Sinodonty), like molars with 3 roots. The third root becomes smaller with each generation as the Turks became assimilated quickly in the majority native Anatolian substrate .

[@davepx1]

@@an1rb Thanks, that's what I was looking for: "it is hardly possible to recognize clear-cut boundaries between sedentary and nomadic or Christian and Muslim groups. It seems more appropriate to talk about local coalitions of marginalized groups, which frequently assumed the character of Byzantine-Turkish alliances." - a familiar pattern from the European migrations of the 1st millennium CE - and perhaps earlier? (And "marginalised groups" immediately makes me think of the spread of Islam in India from the same period from a likewise initially vastly outnumbered immigrant population.) And that's an interesting note: amid all the exciting genetic updates something as straightforward as teeth hadn't occurred to me. It's remarkable that some still fantasise about imagined "purity" when we're all a product of these interactions: like most of us I'm probably 2% neanderthal anyway, and we're all basically adapted fish.

[@ArchHades]

What's the strongest evidence available? Paleolinguistics? Paleolinguists seem to be the ones who favor the Kurgan-Steppe hypothesis the most. The Kurgan hypothesis isnt very impressive at all IMO when talking about archeology or physical anthropology.

[@Justinisinthebuildin]

Where did you find all of these cognates that we get from PIE, and share with other Indo-European languages? Where could I find them? I think that they are absolutely fascinating. I'm seventeen, and I'm thinking about going into linguistics.

[@brunopimenta8204]

Tarim basin isn't that in Xinjiang i thought that was chinese since ancient times.

[@zozifeliz]

It's Xinjiang, homeland of Tocharians and Uyghurs. China just occupied it. China should be closer to Japan and Korea.

[@r.v.b.4153]

The hunter-gatherers of the region were often largely Caucasoid (in particulr Ancient North Eurasian). You can for example look at the Tarim Basin Mummies of the Bronze Age, who genetically largely descend from these Central and North Asian natives (that nowadays do not exist anymore). Both western and eastern gene flow led to the demise of these peoples.

[@Wickbam1985]

As a person of Indian descent, I find the out of India theory embarrassing. Now, I think it entirely reasonable and indeed apparently supported by genetic studies that most of the people of India are descended from a population that has been there for a very long time, certainly before the arrival of Indo-Europeans in the subcontinent. But it is absurd to deny that a movement of peoples introducing Indo-European languages INTO India did not take place,

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Well said Wickbam, good to hear from you.

[@aryanharsh9939]

No its not, there is no evidence of people introducing language in india. Sanskrit is indian alone.

[@aryanchakraborty5175]

Linguistics and Genealogy aren't Primary evidences , they are Consensus based , meaning it could be manipulated to make stories

[@lynnthomason6589]

"I Am who I Am".

[@loojinrome]

Very entertaining on his academic feud with Renfrew.

[@ArchHades]

"The presence of steppe tribes in the Carpathian Basin is well established but other than an occasional exception such as the Jamnaja-like burial at Bleckendorf in eastern Germany, clear evidence of steppe expansions any further west of the Tisza remains elusive. Unless the steppe hypothesis can demonstrate that a steppe culture crossed the Tisza line, it is incapable of providing an attractive solution to the Indo-Europeans of central, northern and western Europe." - JP Mallory.

[@TheGDJames]

I'd be interested in a lecture like this in which only women were allowed to ask questions afterwards, to see if there was any difference.

[@professorsogol5824]

"There are two studies published by the Hungarians regarding Hungarian DNA . . [beat]" Sounds like the set-up for a joke

[@barthill9578]

if there is a wide volume then name me ten, lets see how ignorant i am

[@apo.7898]

The basic wrong premise is that Tocharian and Indo-Iranian moved east from the steppes following a northern route while they could have migrated following a path similar to that of the Silk Road later. South of Caspian Sea to BMAC to Tarim Basin.

[@Samuray1955]

Step, Nomad, Horse/Horse milk-meat eaters/Horse riders, Trousers, Kurgan/human+horse burials culture is a protoTurk (Cimmerian, Scythian, Sak, Sarmatian, Massaget, Thracian/Frakian, Hun, Alan, Avar, Bulgar, Magyar, Peceneg, Khazar...) culture from Altai to the Danube!

[@r.v.b.4153]

Turkic expanded during the Middle Ages. The languages are very much alike and clearly brought by East Eurasian peoples. These Turkic peoples have very little to do with the western Eurasian steppes during Late Prehistory.

[@hglundahl]

3:16 "both languages derive from a common ancestor" Each word in both languages derives from one ancestral language having the word, not necessarily same language for each of the words. Even if there are so many of them, either one common ancestor or a long time of coexistence, or a very intense coexistence of languages is a necessary explanation. IE and Finnish personal endings of words are same for 1 and 2 persons, basically, and Finnish is not IE. Either you have an even older proto-language even further back (Nostratic) or you have a loan between languages of very basic terms, like morphemes of verb subject personal conjugation.

[@1800JimmyG]

KNOCK KNOCK whos there??? MODERN DNA!!!!

[@usedx115x]

Pretty ironic that the comment section on a video about linguistics is full of people who can barely string together a sentence. Politics have rotted their brains.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Politics, historical revisionism, and ethno-nationalism.

[@soulscanner66]

Too many Nazis using KZbin comments as a bulletin board.The editors need to do a bit of deleting.

[@ergbudster3333]

Great. Let's start with you.

[@exocet8834]

Well sorry but genetic evidence especially since 2015 proves that it is more than a linguistic connection, if you cant handle that maybe you should take care of your brain a bit more and worry less about politics.

[@slappy8941]

@@MatthewMcVeagh You look like the kind of guy who gets sent out while your girlfriend has a man over.

[@bevdavis4148]

this first explanation does explain how the Medes get the leopard horse.

[@Suite_annamite]

And Agni in Sanskrit.

[@theknave4415]

Interesting points, early on, but almost arrogantly dismissive of any idea he didn't come up with, himself. Personally, I don't buy the 'Out of Anatolia' Hypothesis, myself. I think it was much more complex, and not a simple, linear, issue, at all. Cynical me: iow, two guys made a career out of contradicting one another, while not seriously advancing our knowledge of the issue.

[@davepx1]

No, it's just how historical and archaeological understanding advance: if they all agreed we'd never get anywhere. Neither built his career on either IE model, though they obviously enjoy disagreeing with each other.

[@knavishknight]

Mostly from wiktionary & etymonline.

[@dlwatib]

I really didn't get much, if anything, out of this talk. You'd think after a life-long career in this field of study he could have something solid to report. It seems the great argument that the scholars keep going around and around on is whether PIE started North or South of the Black Sea. Well, the Black Sea happens to be rather easily navigated, and trade across that sea was probably well-established from an early date. Why does the language have to start on one side or the other? It could easily start as a trading language used by people who live in Black Sea ports.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

If it did there would be evidence of the same sort of culture on both sides. Also the theories have quite different timelines, out by 1000s of years. It's because they are pinned on archaeologically known cultures and migrations. So it's not just a question of place. Almost all archaeologists (and any linguists looking on) who don't agree with Renfrew's Anatolian hypothesis for the Indo-Europeans agree there was a Neolithic migration through Anatolia when he says there was - they just don't agree they were Indo-Europeans.

[@dlwatib]

I have since examined the PIE vocabulary for myself and concluded that both Mallory and Renfrew are wrong, and not by a little bit either. Those who think PIE came from an arid land haven't looked at the vocabulary. wrong-proto-indo-european.yolasite.com/

[@ArchHades]

Well it's only Linguistic Paleontology that most favors the Kurgan hypothesis. Linguistic Paleontology is not the only type of linguistics. I just in general don't think the kurgan hypothesis is that conclusive.

[@tonymontana4161]

This guy tried hard. He made this lecture well worth my while.

[@anupamakrishnan6690]

Ok

[@LuisAldamiz]

Re. cereals and pigs: lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

[@marconatrix]

Which _pig_ word is he referring to? In English we have _swine_ in common with other Germanic languages, _pork_ from French, in common with Romance; then there's _sow_ not to mention _pig_ itself, where the devil does that come from? Not Celtic which has something like _*mokk-_. I used to be fascinated by IE, but after this lecture I'm really starting to wonder if any of the experts really know what they're pontificating about. Do they actually know any of these languages, have they seen any of these words used in context, etc. ??

[@lowrydan111]

Taleb!

[@bf5475]

A tough listen

[@barthill9578]

they came from another language i know thats why they have words alike.

[@brachisaurous]

and what a fountain of knowledge you are! one only has to catch a glimpse of your lucid language that you continuously use in public forums against everything Indian to understand what a lovely, unbiased and knowledgeable person you are! enjoy your staryucks!

[@knavishknight]

All of them come from wiktionary, and the sources wiktionary cites are perfectly SOLID. You want TRUE Greek cognates? E:hound_G:kion; OE:eoh_G:ippos; E:hundred_G:ekato; E:wheel_G:kiklos; E:father_G:patir; E:mother_G:mitera; E:brother_G:fratir; E:sister_G:eor; E:daughter_G:thigatera; E:son_G:yios (both from *sewH- to give birth), E:neve_G:anepsios, OE:ic_G:ego And do you know that "hound" originally means canis lupus familiaris in general & "dog" means a SUB-TYPE of strong hounds?

[@hadimotie2484]

In the region at that ancient time you can only find iranians that had been fighting for new lands and spreading language and DNA ،according to strabon tocharians had been from Persian scythain tribes that had been always fighting with Persians kingdom .

[@sujayraomandavilli4732]

The whole field is badly outdated. Needs to be brought uptodate. Please be familiar with my work.

[@acesflyhigh]

I’m quite deep in history of languages, but who are you, comic or historian? Why are they laughing on your words so many times?

[@Discovios]

Problem with most of these people is that when they analyse ancient Greek words, they use Attic /Ionic Greek words which already have lost the consonant at the front of many words. They dont pay much attention to Doric and Aeolic Greek let alone Mycenaean Greek.

[@apo.7898]

They also manipulate the data. For example the word κύκλος didn't mean 'wheel'. That is a secondary meaning like other meanings this word had such as 'ring', 'round shield' or 'place of assembly'. The inherited word could have just meant 'circle' or 'circular object' in the case of Greek.

[@Macorian]

Not going to reply to the immense amount of ignorance displayed in the comments in general, but here yes, 'cause it's an interesting point. Yes, that are the semantics of κύκλος in Greek. However, there is also κύκλωμα, which really means 'wheel' (although τροχός seems more common). Yet, and this is the problem with all the petty nationalistics showing up in the comments, one has to look at the whole picture, not just a single language. The same word, reconstructible means technically 'wheel'. Also, taken from the verbal root, it means 'to turn around an axis, spin, run'. From there, given its centrality in IE culture, it acquired more general meanings, something that often happens as semantic development. You raise an important point, but here it's not "manipulation" but rather comparison. More troubling seems the issue of genetics... which are problematic, to be sure, but Prof. Mallory seems to equate looks to easily with genetics. Physical appearance is governed by only an infigesimal part of the genome. It changes rapidly. Hungarians may well carry genes that don't show up phenotypically. It happens among Turkic nomads today as well... (in the steppe), they would look perfectly 'mongolian' and all of a sudden they've got a blond child with Central European features etc.

[@barthill9578]

i challenge you to find those two hudred words that came from sanskrit. when you look at the indian language right away words pop up out of place from the language its self, like verdic,sanskrit,rig vedas ect these are greek words

[@indrajitgupta3280]

?? Please explain. This is strange.

[@indrajitgupta3280]

Sanskrit (the word) from the Greek?

[@Aryaveer_jadli]

Nonsense. Sanskrit is pretty close to proto indo european.

[@bonerici]

that guy at 43 minutes won't shut up. Ask your damn question and listen for the answer.

[@mertertek]

Some byzantine officer stated about the avars " they are scythians like any other: only interested in good clothes and easy money" those avars had small boats and long hair like the polovetch. The yamnaya peope never went afar hungary and like any other steppe society, like huns or magyars, they could only have survived in hungary if they ever did. indoeuropean seems to have weak verbs and stark verbs which clearly indicate the double origin of the language, one is agglutinative. I doubt the yamnaya people had this richness in their construction. He dismisses the paleolithic theory very quickly. But if we are going to associate blondism with indoeuropean this can only happen in asia around urals, since finns are also blond and most probably ths depigmentation took place before wurmian period (around 12 thousand years ago). indoeuropean must be much older than yamnaya who are probably closer to afgans or turks like the sythians. His enthuiasm for history is clear and he is really intelligent. ıt is a great pleausre to watch him. thanks for the upload.

[@KosovoReport]

Look up the Serboi and Srbinda, the match up perfectly to the Yamna culture

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Blondism is believed to have originated in the Baltic.

[@nukhetyavuz]

i strongly agree...the only thing i disagree with is that indo european is much older than the yamnaya...its vise versa,indo european is much later...

[@nukhetyavuz]

why no trust in dna and hungarian influence?

[@RanjivKurup]

How does he get every migratory path so wrong? This is the fundamental problem of "scholarship", as scholars rely on old research, much of it perpetuating Christian and Biblical myths. All historic records prove that migrations were always Westward across West Asia into Russia and Europe as the glaciers of the Ice Age receded. In fact, the Don, Danube, Dnieper are named after the river deity Dhanu of the migrating communities. Which culture does Dhanu come from?

[@radiozelaza]

Hungarians, being Uralic, are R1a mostly, because R1a is a Uralic lineage, ancestral to Eastern Europe, from which it expanded to the Urals

[@radiozelaza]

@@tucrin8717 this subclade is a subclade for forest-dwelling populations in a territory between Vistula and Urals. They spoke proto-Uralic, and only some became indoeuropeanized later.

[@radiozelaza]

@@tucrin8717 no, these are haplogroups of forest-dwelling Eastern Hunter Gatherers, they spoke proto-Uralic before they got indoeuropeanized. Go to Carlos Quiles (renowned linguist)'s blog indo-european DOT eu. He tackles this issue with great detail

[@ImmortalKshatriya]

this theory seems to have a conclusion and then everything interpreted to meet that preconceived conclusion.

[@knavishknight]

NOBODY asserts that Europeans came from albino Indians or Dravidians (have you been reading Afrocentrists' albino theory)?IE tongues such as English and Sanskrit shared words originating from one proto-tongue ancestral to both. You want cognates? I'll give you some: English-hound_Sanskrit-sva; E-hundred_S-śatá; E-wheel_S-cakra; OE-eoh_S-asva; E-father_S-pitár; E-mother_S-matar; E-brother_S-bhrā́tar; E-sister_S-svásar; E-daughter_S-duhitár; E-son_S-sunu; E-neve_S-napat; OE-ic̣_S-aham. Learn!

[@esramnor6734]

Hahahaha

[@VickyYadav-gc2md]

Dr Sanjay's ghosh endocrinologist United states of America believes that sanskrit is the mother of all proto indo European languages and I go further to state that Latin language and the ancient sanskrit language of northern India and western India including bengali language are traditionally sister language who would refute this assumption please talk to dr Sanjay's ghosh endocrinologist United states of America educated at India and England and United states of America exposed to three cultures India and England and United states of America

[@54markl]

When did Indo-European separate from Uralic?

[@davepx1]

An "Indo-Uralic" superfamily remains only a hypothesis, though many linguists see a link. I haven't come across a proposed date: a problem (on top of intervening transfer) is that associations and chronology get harder to establish the further back you go. It's a fascinating proposition, but we may never know.

[@Justinisinthebuildin]

Greek is the only root language? What are you talking about? Any language can be used as a root language. You're totally wrong.

[@christianstahl4099]

The western end of the indogermanic languages is Islandic, which is a Germanic language. The term „indoeuropean“ has been coined for political reasons only and it is also wrong, as not all European languages are Indogermanic. „Indoeuropean“ therefore should not be used.

[@brachisaurous]

HOLD ON HERE! Is this chap suggesting R1a1a originated in Central Europe?

[@thorviking87]

the grinding stones weren't for cereal but bone this why there are stones for grinding and no cereal- this tradition of cannibals was preserved in many tribes such as issedones or massagetae and jesus of Corse - nostalgia

[@eddemian]

What? That's the problem with Geneticists and other egg-heads don't bother reading up on history. "Attila was about to throw himself into the sacrificial fire for loosing so badly and about all of his Hungarian fighters. Upon returning home to Pannonia, he ordered two German tribes to take the widowed Hun women and forbade them to speak German"

[@AmHaArez]

The more proper name of the culture is "Cucuteni", not "Trypolie", and I find it disappointing that Mallory only uses the latter term, especially because the models he presents refer particularly to this western aspect of the "Cucuteni-Trypolie" civilization.

[@evgmack]

Tripolie and Cucuteni are the same cultures. The difference just in names. The cucuteni is a Romanian name and Tripolie is a Ukrainian name of the same culture.

[@barthill9578]

ukraine? what do we find in ukraine that supports a conection?

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Watched that, not convinced, will need to hear the details. I'm pretty sure there's evidence of central European Celtic language before Atlantic coast Celtic. However it seems British Isles people get most of their DNA from northern Spain. But there could still have been a Celtic invasion, albeit one of small addition to gene pool rather than replacement. BTW nothing Cunliffe said there implies Celtic is not from PIE. Even if it did develop as a lingua franca. Germanic could have the same status

[@timflatus]

Unbelievable that Renfrew still has Mallory on the defensive, he completely fails to add anything new in this talk. It's very entertaining, but I was hoping to learn something new.

[@timflatus]

More seriously, it is interesting how much Renfrew and Mallory now agree, having both revised their positions in light of new research.

[@ZEHM89]

you're setting up a straw man argument. no one is saying that English words derived DIRECTLY from Sanskrit, any more than biologists claim that Homo sapiens evolved from chimps.

[@ArchHades]

but there's no evidence of Kurgan tribes west of the Tisza, that's like almost all of Europe.

[@knavishknight]

I don't think so. 'Civilizations' arose not out of thin air. Even the truism that Sumer is the 1st 'civilization' is problematic when we consider Ubaid, which may be up to 8500 YoBP and is somewhat adavnced by itself with irrigation & slow potter-wheels.

[@kabud]

now we have genetics support and a support of realization of the last Ice age situation for the humankind

[@barthill9578]

lol what horsemen? what settlements? not even a tombstone

[@drob9054]

An Indo-European does not mean that Esau is the white man

[@Krawn_]

The White man that spreads the bible throughout the Earth vs the Jew that spreads Judaism/communism throughout this earth which one is Jacob vs Esau?

[@knavishknight]

From available data so far, paleolinguistics, genetics, & archeology, Kurgan hypothesis makes the most sense to me. Btw, what's so great about the Neolithic Revolution & the Cradle of Civilization? I see no problem PIE speakers as illiterate horsemen who at first knew little farming, then learned much from Neolithic farmers & Mesolithic Aborigines. Illiteracy doesn't equal stupidity, Kurgan horsemen are skilled metallurgists, also.

[@vladimirgrepan157]

R1a L784!

[@akpstar6331]

mongoloid indian hybrid

[@akpstar6331]

hahahah "WHITE" world media. YOu are indian haha