Improve Your Reloading with Porter's Precision Gage Pin Die for Neck Expanding

[@rondonovan4293]

Stumbled on an add in some gun magazine years ago , and purchased this die , BEST MOVE BY ME !!!

[@UWMitch]

Super impressed with Kenny Porter - sent him an email over the weekend - he replied last night, and by this morning he called me with my order all boxed up and ready to ship!

[@davidhutchinson6108]

I found this to be really helpful. Thank you.

[@FClassJohn]

Glad it was helpful!

[@CHIBA280CRV]

Fantastic tool and informative video thanks 👍

[@FClassJohn]

Glad it helped!

[@DimaProk]

Wow, what a great product, essentially a small collet holder which is what lathes and milling machines use for precision.

[@FClassJohn]

yeah it works great.

[@IHFarmer2007]

Great Videos!! I've had mine for 6 or so months, got the recommendation from another F-Class shooter from Texas to get Kenny Porter's Die, got the collet for .224 and .264 for now. Love it, been buying gage pins from amazon, lol sharpening them with a grinder, tape on the gage and a drill, then buffing them with a buffing wheel to smooth things out, works great. One thing I've noticed with the radius that was on the gage pins Kenny beveled was that it seemed like it would create a donut inside, so I buffed it to a more gradual taper, and so far the donuts have been less, maybe lube would solve this, IDK but it's another darn step in an already large stepped reloading process.

[@FClassJohn]

Yes I noticed the step in his taper as well and it will actually clean carbon out of the neck if you're not careful. Just lately sanding that edge can help like you said.

[@bpintogsxr1000]

Great video!

[@James-prs-uk]

How are you expanding the neck and not sizing them back down I would like to see a 5 case start to finish reloading video how you do it for your competition bullets

[@FClassJohn]

I can do a video like that soon. All my brass gets sized and then the necks are expanded back up a little to ensure consistent neck tension. I currently expand back up to where there’s .005 neck tension on the bullet. That means I use a .284 gage pin and there’s .005 spring back so the tension (actually it’s called interference) ends up being .005.

[@James-prs-uk]

F-Class John it one thing I ve not really played with I run 2thou neck tension on my 284 it’s shooting 1/4” at 100y and it still shoots better than my wind calls at 1000y still under a moa tho but I guess all this will help sort them odd flyers out

[@tommydee1437]

Just spoke to the fellows at Porters. Nice guys , placed and order for 308 and 223. Will be interesting to see how the tools work. I can say I can "feel" different resistance levels when seating now off a stock forster fl die.

[@FClassJohn]

Awesome, I'm sure you'll love the new setup when you get it.

[@tommydee1437]

@@FClassJohn John, do you still store them in the same case? I wanted to keep my 8 gauges, die and collets together.

[@FClassJohn]

@@tommydee1437 I still use that blue .223 MTM box and it works great.

[@tommydee1437]

@@FClassJohn well a little befuddled tonight. got my pins and my collet die. selected a pin of 3065+ and started the process. was doing once fired lapua brass I had annealed and full length sized less expander ball. the operation was smooth and the ID of the necks was spot on. however... runout now measures from 003 to 005! Thats way up from the 001 after full length sizing. wondering what went wrong. do you have to use the pins in increment's and I opened the neck up too much at once? Seems odd as with a bit of case lube the process went very smoothly otherwise. Thoughts?

[@FClassJohn]

@@tommydee1437 First question is do you turn your necks down?

[@CJ-ty8sv]

As a machinist / fabricator for my day job, I instantly recognized what the maker is doing and just for a slight correction, the maker of that is not doing anything to the nut. That is a standard ER collet chuck tool holder setup with likely a custom body. It is likely that he is making the body of the product but the collet and the nut are standard off the shelf products, like ER16 size from the looks of it. At first glance I was thinking that he was just taking standard collet chuck straight shank tool holders and threading the bold to for the standard 7/8 thread of most presses (and possibly boring the mind body a bit too) but the more I thought about it, I dont think anyone makes a 1" shank ER16 size holder which you would need to be able to turn the body down and thread for 7/8 thread. ER16 holders are only available typically with either a 3/4" shank or 5/8 shank and obviously therefore would not work to tread to the needed 7/8 thread so he is likely making the body from scratch. Regardless of all that you are 100% correct about snapping the collet into the nut before putting in the gauge pin and putting it all in the body. Not doing so with crack the nut at minimum and can damage the collet itself. Just know that those nuts (and collets) are readily available just about anywhere that that sells machine tool tooling and all over online. Not trying to remove business from the maker as it is a really good idea / product from the looks of it but if someone happened to crack a nut, they might be able to get it faster search locally or from Amazon if time was important.

[@BoltActionReloading]

I love the videos sir. I was thinking about trying out one of the sets that 21st century reloading offers. They have mandrel increments in .005" is there a size they don't offer that makes gauge pins more desirable?

[@FClassJohn]

Honestly if you’re shooting a standard caliber then either one would be fine for what you want to do in most cases. If you do a lot of calibers I can tell you that gage pins are definitely a much cheaper way to go in the long run but both accomplish the same goal at the end of the day.

[@IHFarmer2007]

Also, you can FINE tune with gage pins in VERY fine increments and to EXACT sizes much better than 21st century/Sinclair, etc and with gage pins, they are hardened and won't wear out like the other mandrels as they are SS.

[@FClassJohn]

Exactly

[@hughtanner208]

Is the difference.005 or .0005?

[@planeiron241]

Good vid John

[@FClassJohn]

Thank you

[@aakoksal]

Looks like with this setup you won't have the gauge pin free-float though. I was wondering if you measured some run-off of a sized case?

[@MYates307RC]

Thank you for this demo, those are very nice quality well designed products. Can you tell me where to get the mandrel pin sets?

[@FClassJohn]

I’m glad you like the video and that it helped you. You can get the pin sets directly from him or anywhere else that sells gage pins.

[@MYates307RC]

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate the time you take to make your videos.

[@leoburns9674]

Great product review... I have a Lee mandrel die with only two “pins” - expand/turning... this looks much more robust. But... remind us, FL case resize with neck bushing to slightly reduce neck diameter to then use this “pin” system to expand ID to correct size (for desired tension)... you would use this pin expansion on every case prep? Thanks!

[@FClassJohn]

Thank you and yes you’re correct. All my brass gets sized and the necks are expanded back up a little using this system to ensure consistent neck tension.

[@Stuntman-Jeff]

I'm gonna be lighter in the wallet after watching this! Nice review, John!

[@FClassJohn]

Glad it helped.

[@hughtanner208]

please share your thoughts on this product vs the 21st century? Would be VERY interested to hear your perspectives. Thank you for all that you do.

[@FClassJohn]

It’s two different things. The 21st-century uses mandrels whereas the Porter system uses gage pins. The advantage of gage pins is near infinite sizes to choose from where mandrels are Typically only available in certain sizes depending on the manufacturer. They both work great and solve the same problem so it’s just a matter of figuring out if you were going to use common calibers and are OK with mandrels and fixed sizes or really want to play around with variable diameters in which case you would go with the gage pins.

[@hughtanner208]

@@FClassJohn while I can’t speak to the tolerance on the 21st Century and I am curious if we can shoot the difference. The 21st can get down to .0005” if memory serves Just curious as we are weighing loads to .02 grain and .001 primer depths etc I do understand that tolerance creep is a real thing……I’m just curious if we can actually shoot the difference You bring F-Class and me applying it in the PRS/NRL world

[@FClassJohn]

@@hughtanner208 I didn’t mean in that sense. What I mean is that let’s say you want to play with more neck tension for instance with .284win. With mandrel sets you’re typically stuck with .282 or maybe .281 as the smaller diameter but with gage pins you could go as low as you want. Does that make more sense?

[@hughtanner208]

@@FClassJohn grateful for the clarification and grateful for all you do

[@2whl4re]

How different is this from the 21st Century precision mandrel setup? Any experience with that one?

[@FClassJohn]

It’s a totally different kind of set up. With the 21st-century you only have the options that they make in their mandrels, whereas if you use a gage pin set up like the Porter there are literally hundreds if not thousands of options to choose from. That being said the options that 21st-century has fit the needs of most shooters. Both do a great job, just two different ways to get there.

[@mikemar2822]

john with the porter gauge pin die, the body of the die doesn't seam to align itself with the case body as does a sizer or seating die? I also float my dies on a550 how is your neck runout. thinking of ordering thanks

[@FClassJohn]

I don't have any issues with my runout and if you're floating your mandrel you'l have even less. I honestly haven't measured runout in a while because I know what I'm doing works and runout is somewhat overrated anyway (but shhh, I didn't say that 😉). What I mean is simply that once you know you have controlled your runout to an acceptable level, there's no point in losing sleep over your process at that point. .

[@kevinbullard2505]

Hey John, Where do you get your tapered carbide gage pins? I’ve been scouring the Internet for tapered carbide gage pins and can’t find them. And I’m waiting to hear if P3 can do custom carbide pins. Just curious where you got your carbide tapered pin gages?

[@FClassJohn]

I have to order them on Ebay and then have a machinist friend taper them for me with diamond compound.

[@1340MB]

How does the Porter expander die compare to the Twenty first century expander?

[@FClassJohn]

It’s apples and oranges. The 21st century unit uses mandrels that are limited to a certain range of sizes for each caliber. The porter die hold gage pins which can literally be bought in hundreds of configurations around any caliber. Gage pins Give you a lot more versatility. The only real downside is that it’s tough to find carbide or coded versions because they are made for machining tolerances where as mandrels can be found in carbide or coated versions.

[@emmettgraham833]

Looks like an ER style collet. Nice looking die.

[@MrBryanJollie]

Great Video! Could you give a link to his site? I can't seem to find the right one.

[@FClassJohn]

Look in the video description. I put in his Facebook link since his actual website doesn’t show the product. Just give them a call.

[@Ensign_Cthulhu]

You have a typo in the first paragraph of your description: "...sending me one of their does to test." What? Doe, a deer, a female deer... I think you meant "dies".

[@FClassJohn]

😂 Thank you.

[@UWMitch]

Hey John! Yesterday I was realizing that even though I'm annealing and using an LE Wilson neck bushing I think my neck tension is a little inconsistent as it's big enough to feel the difference on *some* cases when seating the bullet. So I went down a rabbit hole that led me back to the source of my rabbit hole ;) Couple questions - seems like this kind of thing you'd want a floating tool head - is that a Whidden or something else? With your fully semi automatic 750 set-up do you use this after size and before powder & seating?

[@FClassJohn]

I tend to expand with my gage pins both during my sizing process so the necks are all the same for trimming and also right before seating so they're perfect before the final process. Free floating works great for expanding on the Dillon with the Whidden setup.

[@UWMitch]

@@FClassJohn Thanks John! Your reloading class can't come soon enough for me :) By the time it comes around I'll have asked you at least 1/4 of the things I need to know, one tedious question at a time.

[@soonersteve3733]

Ok John, I was looking at 21st Century mandrels and die. Now I saw this video and really stumped as to which way to go. So what size gauges would you get for the 6.5 Creedmoor?

[@FClassJohn]

It really just depends how much you want to play around with neck tension but you would start with .264 and work your way down and obviously the smaller the number the tighter the neck tension will be. Most companies sell them in kits of 2 to 4 different sizes. If you order the Porter die he sells a set of appropriate sized gage pins as does 21st Century on their mandrel kits.

[@soonersteve3733]

@@FClassJohn thank you for your response! Do you have a Facebook page where I could ask questions or even an email address. I have been watching a ton of your videos and Erik Cortina’s and really appreciate how you two guys respond. Again thank you.

[@FClassJohn]

@@soonersteve3733 I’m glad that helped. Most of my direct communication and on-going help is done through my Patreon account. There are three different levels you can choose from and the top one even allows for live interactions to help with problems several times a month. You can find the link to it on any of my videos.

[@josephlapierre3407]

I hope someone is paying you some sort of kick back $$ for putting these videos out. Because every time I watch one of your videos it winds up costing me money 😂

[@trg3761]

100% now i need a v4 and an FX-300i😩

[@honcho714]

So it's just a more expensive version of the collet die puller with more expensive pins , seems really stupid to switch to that just to pay more for it .