In Defense of Closed Species

I don't mind closed species, but I find the people who dislike them are almost more obnoxious about it than the owners. People who make knockoffs are like, really spiteful. if someone made a knockoff of people's OC's, he community would be in a frenzy. I guess its only ok when it's a closed species.
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[@SimpleNicks]

Main points for those w/o media comprehension since this is getting boosted again: - Copying designs deliberately is the same as creating a fursuit intentionally trying to imitate someone's style on a base they made. It's not illegal, you're fully able to, it's just A. going out of your way to be disrespectful, and B. shows a lack of creativity. - There are millions of animals, trillions of combinations and ways you can make something unique. going out of your way to draw a cccat doesn't make you edgy or cool, it just shows you're not able to make something creative yourself. No one is stopping you, but trying to get that sick sick CS hate for "copying designs" just sounds kind of childish. No one cares but you honestly. - I'm not saying CS hate doesn't happen for similar designs, I'm saying that most people who send harassment for similar species are like 12. Why do you care what 12 year old's think. learn the block button. -I like closed species, not all are good but any comments help this video do better, so post all your thoughts good and bad ;) Hope that helps! :D

[@lotustea6806]

Again, taking inspiration from designs behind a paywall is fine so long as you dont call it the namebrand. Saying people are uncreative for taking inspo of things they like is...really weird considering this is the art community and we all look up to others and their styles to grow. Saying "your uncreative make your own" is gatekeepish as everything can be used for inspo. Just bc one person draws a eyeless cat doesnt mean someone is uncreative by making something similar. Thats how art works, we take our surroundings as inspiration, and build on it in our own way. (This, as usual, does not include those doing things out of spite as thats shitty lmao) Not to mention, saying no one cares doesnt track considering you and others cared enough make videos about these things :V

[@narwhalocean791]

there are so many combinations, but the vast majority of closed species are just cats or dogs with a unique feature. fusing my 2 favourite pets, cats and a shrimp makes me a copycat of some random persons design i have never seen before?

[@starstorm1267]

You make some good arguments in this comment, but some things I disagree with here are: I don’t think people who make knockoffs or copy a CS design are trying to be “creative” or “original”, they just want to spite the creators out of petty hate. Not saying you can’t call them out for it, they definitely should be called out. But saying “no one really cares except you” doesn’t add up considering you cared enough to make a video and an argument about it. Saying that CS creators who send harassment towards other creators “are like 12, why do you care what 12 year olds think?” and that people should “learn the block button” is not only a strawman argument, but it is also easier said than done. People can create alternative accounts to keep sending someone harassment. I’m not trying to sound rude or disrespectful in this comment so please don’t read it in that tone. I’m just trying to point out some fallacies I find in the arguments of your comment.

[@moth300]

nah imma do what I want.

[@RaylinKHD]

Literal copium for points. Closed Species arent "creative" all of them take common troops of furry/ampromorphic design. You could easily create a character of a "closed species" by complete accident. Closed Species are a frankly asinine concept and only serve to limit the overall creativity of artists. BOZO

[@mamapuma5150]

I honestly really dislike closed species, but hey, if you like them, go for it. I would just rather make my own creature rather than buy one from someone else. I've found that most adopts I buy I end up just wanting to sell to someone else if I don't tweak the design to make it more personalized towards myself. Closed species might be different though, since it is also community based, but I honestly didn't know that closed species had niche communities. Hm.

[@sparks-of-magic]

Lots of closed species have "make your own" options, where you can make the character to your liking (within the species traits of course). It isn't just adopts! So you can have a character that is tweaked to your liking, that is still part of a community.

[@andrewwatts1997]

I get you, I'd rather make my own aswell. Currently working on a Kobolt Insect hybrid. However, I must recognize that not everyone is as creative as we are. There are people who either don't see the importance of creaitivy, aren't capable of being creative or simply lack the skills despite having the ideas. And so they flock to others to make something for them. It could also be a need of wanting to belong to a community, because exclusivity creates an artificial enviroment of importance that people feel they need to belong to to matter in their communities. My two cents on closed spiecies however, I feel very conflicted when community members or the creators themselves block, persecute, engage in negative public behaviour when people who create their own work use ' elements ' or their closed designs and then moan about copyright laws. Seeing that you can only copyright characters as a whole and not elements of any character.

[@sparks-of-magic]

@@andrewwatts1997 Dude why do you sound so condescending about this. "Not everyone is as creative as we are"?? Building off what other people have done is the backbone of art. Did you invent kobolds? Or insects? Obviously not. Someone using a closed species or an adopt is absolutely not an indication of their own creativity, very few people have exclusively pre-made adopts. And the ones that do usually just do not have the artistic skills to pull off their ideas. If they are buying adopts though, they usually writing or roleplay or something with them, which all require creativity. Also the way you act like these communities are all about exclusively, and not about sharing art, enjoying a world together, and being creative, what's up with that? Why would you assume that? Please try to be kinder in your assumptions of people, it's clear you are a bit of a pessimist who thinks that because your ideas are less mainstream you are somehow superior.

[@vivaldi_is_dreaming]

Most CS do have communities, yea. There's also communities for adopts that might not be considered fully CS that are "closed" in a similar manner - I run a community/shop that deals in pokémon adoptables and RP, for instance, and you can't just claim a 'mon and jump in - you have to claim a freebie, win a game, or buy a commissioned piece of art in order to get mons for your trainers. I also co-own another fully unique world RP/community that's based on anthro characters; we definitely don't own the concept for, say, a cat furry, but you have to have a character on our lines/by one of our artists (again, free or cash, there's different avenues) in order to join in the world and play the Discord games. I actually find it weird to find species/CS that don't have worldbuilding and communities behind them tbh. Single / one off adopts, sure, but a whole species? Seems like something you'd WANT to have a community for!

[@magentialice]

tbh tweaking adopt designs are part of the funn imo!

[@DINODOGGED]

I don't mind as long as ppl aren't terrible abt it. For example my user is dinodogs across pretty much everything and my mascot is a dinosaur dog hybrid. There are 10000 different dinodog species out there and at one point the owner of one of them came to me and said I wasn't allowed to use dinodogs as my name and I HAD to change my mascot. They made new accs when I'd block them. It was insane. they eventually just gave up but stuff like that is what puts me off closed species.

[@Sp00ky_p1zza]

That sucks, no one owns a fursona species hybrid.

[@carpenterthehivewing]

@@Sp00ky_p1zza No one can own a hybrid species. It’s ridiculous.

[@Sp00ky_p1zza]

@@carpenterthehivewing thats what i said

[@MCMike660]

I had that with my other sona. Kangaroo/dragon hybrid "That looks too similar to a dutchie, youre breaking the rules of dutchies" ffs you dont own the concept of dragons with fur.

[@lemonadehyena]

As someone who likes closed species - there are hundreds of Dino theme dog characters out there that’s ridiculous of the person to do that. Close species should be unique.

[@kittentoys2051]

personally, as someone who moderated several closed species and owned a few over the years I don't really care if folks make knockoffs as long as they arent ripping off existing designs. Like, you can't claim to own a combination of traits, someone else will always come up with a similar idea. If someone else wants to use those traits, its whatever imo? The owner of the species isn't missing out on anything because the person making the knockoff most likely wouldn't have bought from them anyway so its not really hurting anything. I think closed species should be more about the community and world building around the species rather than focusing on traits and whatnot.

[@SimpleNicks]

Very very true, especially pretty “basic” species that know they arent very unique never seemed to lash out bc its just for fun usually

[@marrav3794]

I have to agree with this. I'm not fully knowledgeable on Closed Species but from what I do know about them I don't fully support them. I feel that if they're for a certain community or event or group story or something, then by all means that is the creator's creative property and they can dictate what goes and what doesn't.

[@retromutt3443]

I agree!! Very true thats what it should be not bullying and excluding people because their oc is too similar to their closed species or cause they cant afford it. It should be a community of people with a love of the species and world not a stingy cash grab!

[@Feezee223]

I saw someone on the wof wiki get mad and make someone change there oc desighn because there’s a closed species that has butterfly wing spikes and the oc the person made had different butterfly wing spikes that weren’t even that similar

[@tikimillie]

I guess you can view it a bit like pettigree dogs vs non-pettigree dogs

[@uniberry4]

sadly people do get bullied alot online for making a character similar to a closed species. Like howltars. They are just fuffly birds. i know many creators thats been attacked by the fans or asked to change their characters. Just calling them "13yr old" isnt gonna cut it because it happens very very often.

[@missingnotheglitchmon]

I think all birds are fluffy, feathers and all. It sounds like it is just an every day bird. Though I had friend who will remain anon who did get accused of copying sphinxyn by random artist in the group and the sphinx they drew was not even feline it was a hyena.

[@Jax-go9es]

gonna teach myself how to draw well so i can "steal" closed species

[@SimpleNicks]

Do u want a cookie

[@Jax-go9es]

@@SimpleNicks a cookie would sound amazing rn

[@monopolisticfox]

In my personal opinion , I absolutely despise closed species. I see the fandom as a creative outlet for anyone wishing to express themselves, and I believe having a closed of species limits this. Yes, I understand that you can't just take someone's fursona and claim it as yours, and I understand you can't do the same for adopts. However, I believe if you see a species (whos a closed species), and genuinely feel "connected" to it, and or honestly love it, then there should be absolutely nothing stopping you form expressing yourself by using that character as an inspiration for another **uniqe** character based on an already created species.

[@missingnotheglitchmon]

The species itself is not the problem so it is not fair to hate entire species of fictional animal over what the artist themselves do. The artist is just toxic and rude, but it is not the fictional animals fault.

[@endostatica1405]

@@missingnotheglitchmonI just died reading this lmfao 💀

[@onyxwolfarias6523]

some artists even gatw keep ideas of the species like oh u are making a custom NM species too bad it has some ideas we have like diffrent types of specoes

[@3amhellbeast]

Unfortunately a lot of the issues don't really stem from the species themselves but from their communities or certain individuals within them that take things too far. From my moderation experience in an adopt community, I am almost always having issues with species owners, their staff, or their members, to even just people who know about a species and is willing to go way to far to white knight on the specie's behalf. For example, a few years ago I had the creator or one of the head mods for Mochi Raptors not just politely ask, but straight up demanded that myself and my staff memorize and screen every single mochi raptor adopt that was posted for sale for "king" or basically extremely rare traits that could only be sold within their own communities. They also were upset with our community because we had apparently failed to catch it previously. It was a decently long list, plus some of these traits were not only really subtle, but at the time our small team of staff was already having a difficult time keeping up with scanning every post as is. Never mind how Mochi Raptors were just really popular at the time to the point in almost 1 our of every 3 adopts was a mochi raptor adopt. We had another issue where someone happened to post an adopt that was a bit similar to a closed species that someone had launched around the same time. The adopt was being made before the closed species concept art was even started, but because the closed species finished and launched before the adopt, the adopt maker was heavily harassed and criticized for it, including being blacklisted from other artists in the community before the owner of the closed species even knew what was going on. The species owner was also being criticized for being unoriginal as well, and while the species wasn't entirely a new concept, it was still a big coincidence that the two adopts happened to have a few rare similar features and were posted so close to each other. It created one hell of a mess to try to clean up, and the worst of it was coming from the users needlessly attacking the artist for "copying" when it wasn't a copy at all. I have also seen this happen a lot where oftentimes it's not really the creators or mods of the species, but the fans are the ones who are nasty towards people who just happened to have a similar idea or going after every single character or adopt that "could pass" as a certain closed species and calling it a rip-off. It doesn't matter if the character was older then the species, or the artist didn't even know about XYZ species, some people will be ruthless towards anything that even remotely comes close to a certain closed species and will attack and harass them because they "didn't pay" to be involved with the closed species that they had no idea that they had accidentally gotten themselves involved in. Some species do have rules against doing this kind of thing and will have punishments for minimodders within their community, but this doesn't always stop people or help the situation, especially when it's just people who aren't even involved in these communities who are the ones tearing down other artists for this. It's these instances where the "It stifles creativity" claim comes in. It's not regarding the species itself, but rather those outside of it. I know a lot of artists who are scared to take risks or make certain designs out of fear that they might be stepping on a closed species toes and they will become a target (myself included). Want to make a cat or dog with constellations in their fur? You're getting too close to Constallions. A Satyr with socks? That's a dainty. Dog with cinnamon buns in their fur? Well.... Sure, you can still make these designs, but there is always the chance that the wrong person will see it and then it becomes the next drama of the week. It's made to be even worse if this happens to be the owner or even staff member of the species that is the one going after artists which will just urge the rest of the community to gang up on them. There's a reason why there is this dislike and heavy criticism of closed species in this regard, because it happens surprisingly often. I personally still don't hate closed species, I even have a few characters who are closed species (I have 2 Quilldogs for example, I'm not too active in the community though, I just really like Mischy a lot lol). But I think most of my gripes come down to how some of them are handled and when creators or owners of some either encourage harassing or witch hunting... or even participate in it themselves (or they let the power get to their heads and think the world revolves around them and their species). I think that they can be neat when done right and created and maintained by the right people, but sadly there are a few bad eggs out there and those ones do deserve to be looked at and criticized. I think it falls into the same category as people who will go after artists for "colour theft" or "inspiration theft", or getting upset that someone is copying their character when the markings of both characters come from natural popular markings or patterns from the same animal (ex. Two huskies based off of normal husky markings happening to look similar).

[@anonymocha]

Took the words right out of my mouth. What an amazing comment! 👏

[@missingnotheglitchmon]

Sadly lot of people chose to hate or dislike the animal itself instead of behaviors of the artist. meanwhile a artist I am friends who I will not name never gets feedback on their art or if they do they just get "is okay but I do not like closed or open species" when creature she drew has been around long before internet was invented meaning they were not open or closed, they just exist.

[@g_glop]

aren't closed species literally a self-created trademark system? copyright is for novel literature/art, patents for inventions, and trademarks for a set of traits that distinguish your brand from others. trademarks don't have to be novel or innovative, you just have to be first to register

[@XeroTeirsynth]

I was never really a fan of closed species for a LOT of reasons. Despite that fact, I have actually created many species that nobody can use without my explicit permission (yet). I’m an author, I’ve been writing a book for seven years. It’s a very large scale project, and only my close friends actually know about it. I’m extremely proud of myself for how far I’ve come. It takes place in several different worlds, all of which have unique wildlife, cultures, environments, etc. Needless to say, I have worked tirelessly to create an incredibly immersive universe FAR different from our own. To me, it’s like the ultimate escape from reality. One day, when the story is released, I would love to see people make fursonas based off of my creature designs!! Seeing even one person be inspired by my work in the way others have inspired me would validate me beyond comprehension. But for now, it’s all closed off to the public and only I and people I give permission to can use any of my designs. I take my work very seriously. With all that in mind, as much as I dislike the concept of closed species, I kind of understand why creators would bar people from using their designs, especially if they’re incredibly passionate about them. What I absolutely despise is when people make you pay hundreds of dollars to have a design. All the power to you if you’re into that, but it really doesn’t sit right with me personally. (ESPECIALLY when it’s something as minor as slapping wings on a protogen. Seriously?? At bare minimum, if you’re going to put a price tag on a design, make it original!!) At the end of the day, I won’t judge you for what you do on your own time as long as it isn’t taking advantage of anyone.

[@XeroTeirsynth]

@David Hetherman It’s just my personal opinion. I may not like it when other people do that, but I’m not going to sit there and cuss them out on Twitter for doing it (especially because I don’t have Twitter *and* I’m not a prick lol). As aforementioned, I am an artist myself. I do character designs via commission as a way to get money on the side. People are allowed to dislike what I charge for my work, but that’s just their opinion. They’re allowed to dislike it. I genuinely don’t care what they think, and I’m sure the artists who do this sort of stuff feel the exact same way about me lol. We’re all just trying to survive in this shitass economy in our own ways lmao Also, I think I forgot to clarify that I don’t really care what people do with their money. It doesn’t affect me in any way lol. No judgment and all the power to you if you spend millions to make a closed species sona. If anything, I’m jealous you can even do that 💀

[@orionskittles]

I need to know the name of this book you're working on. I want to read it when it's finished, it sounds cool even though I know very little about it so far Or if the name isn't decided yet, something else I can use to know when and find the book once it's released

[@Sapphireskittles]

​@@orionskittles I second this!

[@toomanydum4084]

@@Sapphireskittles thirded

[@SukunaYaoi]

Not related but there's actually a species called Xero and I actually have a myo from them xD I'm only mentioning this because you have Xero in your name and I thought it was a coincidence lol

[@PopIkiru]

The only reason I made a "closed species" for one of my characters is due to sentimental value, as the character is the sole survivor from when i used to write. i have never published the rules online and simply go "no, you can't make one, i'm not selling a custom" when asked. I don't own the features by themselves yes, but combined together it's just different. This character is incredibly important to me, and thats why its there.

[@soundrogue4472]

Dude; the number of closed species groups that attack CHILDREN; when it's something simple like an Orca and dragon mix or a cat deer is a stupid number of people.

[@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX]

Yeah- and their often ran by kids?-

[@soundrogue4472]

@@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX they're not run by kids.

[@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX]

@@soundrogue4472 yeah they are.

[@soundrogue4472]

@@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xXSome of the art is INSANELY impressive if this is true. The thing is; I knew a full grown adult a part of the closed species things. So... oof if he's interacting with kids.

[@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX]

@@soundrogue4472 dude- a lot of smaller often made more fun off closed species are by children… children can be hella good at anatomy and often they have “harassing issues” as u have a emotionally not ready child trying to manage a bunch of bs because some petty dude “knew an adult in closed species” and decided to harass all closed species- Fun fact! If a closed species doesn’t have a way to mute u- like banning u from their server if ur in there etc etc- Ur prob dealing with one ran by kids that u are now harassing for no reason.

[@Monsterdrool]

To be fair as someone who's been in the community for like 14-15 years species as simple as a shrimp with fur are a dime a dozen(Especially as someone who makes weird species I own a needlefish have made mandrill raptors ect), Just because some people want to add fur or ears or tails to things that usually dont have those features doesn't mean they WANT to have a closed species that exists. And its groups like these closed species groups that add horns and hooves to dogs and call them cow dogs that we limit the creativity of people who want to use their imagination and just happen to make a closed species. Ive made plenty of Fuzzy crocs, I've made fuzzy chameleons, Barksharks, Did I know that closed species of those things might exist. No, I just wanted to make something cool and unique and I think everyone should get the chance to without being witch hunted. I dont think its necessarily the creators fault that it happens but back in 2012-15 closed species were just a thinly veiled cash grab for people who had too much money to burn and feared FOMO. I think there are really cool community's that are passionate about having a unique creature but most people go in thinking theyre gonna make a closed species and people are gonna want them because of the exclusivity. I used to be that way too, I think the beanbag guys or gastrosnaps are cool but I think grems literally just look like the classic depiction of an imp, I think mundermutts are a cool concept but waterdogs are silly (God I remember the controversy with those) But I think when it comes down to it artists should be respected when they draw their species a certain way and other people shouldn't be attacked because they drew the same hybrid but a wholly different way. Its a nuanced issue but most people don't treat it that way.

[@silverfang405]

Honestly my problem is just the toxicity any sort of community fosters, I can absolutely admit it's not a closed species problem. Having followed artists who have been burned by mods in closed species communities when they were active members for no reason I personally think management in these groups is super important, if your mods are treating your members and customers in a sense like crap that's not a good group

[@paigestinnett5221]

To be completely honest, I made a lot of these ocs off closed species sheets when I was younger, but to be fair, I didn’t even know what a closed species was at the time lol! I just saw these long ass Pinterest posts with lore and shiz and BAM made a bunch of doodles off them. And then I grew attached. Every now and then I’ll still draw them but more for the nostalgia than because I want anarchy in the art community. I don’t post those drawings because they are closed species and stuff, but u still like them.

[@paigestinnett5221]

I ment I but who cares lol

[@MaxKarmaCat]

I would love to see your critters.

[@carcinobeastCB]

I HATE closed species (with some exceptions like impims) but ngl this video is awesome and informative

[@SimpleNicks]

ive found alot of chill communities, its case by case

[@KalicoHeart]

Closed species are still pretty unnecessary. It's one thing to sell a fursuit or character that you've done all the hard work of making, but if I'm designing a member of a species and making it with my own flair and my own design choices, I shouldn't have to pay squat. That's like saying I have to pay $300 in order to draw crystal gem OC. Sure, Steven Universe came up with the concept, but the character and the design choices are still made by me. It's policing art, and that is wrong. Art should stay a freedom of expression, and nobody should be harrassed for making a harmless drawing that they worked hard on.

[@rylandroo1992]

I disagree, and this video hasn't changed my stance on closed species. They're literally, like the person below me said, NFTs in a way. So expensive, just to be part of an exclusive club.

[@MaxKarmaCat]

I agree.

[@lostjirachi]

As someone who’s nickname involves everything with squids, hearing people don’t have squid fursuits nearly made me cry. I love squids. On the other hand, I’ve never been fond of closed species. They kind of remind me of… an example would be like purse stores. A lot of people buy specific purses from specific places and such to flaunt that they got this purse from michæl korns or gucci or that one place with the quilt pattern purses. They’re pretty, but when it comes down to it, it’s usually people want the brand. If the creature is impressive and interesting in it’s own design, like that slug thing or idk others, I tend to be fine with it. I get frustrated when it’s just a dog with a hat or something. Being original is hard, I get that. Xenomorphs is something I think about a lot when it comes to this, even though they’re not closed species. My opinion doesn’t matter though. It’s what the maker likes, and if other people like it, so be it.

[@misterkaos.357]

There's hope yet for the squid fandom. Thanks to a _certain game_ that rose in popularity back in 2020, squid dogs are a thing now.

[@toomanydum4084]

@@misterkaos.357 splatoon or changed?

[@misterkaos.357]

@@toomanydum4084 The one with the squid dog

[@kiddosneakybeaky3934]

@@misterkaos.357 oh god…changed???!!!

[@DoctorK-im9cd]

Hey guys. Did somebody mention something about squid dogs?!

[@Ocorydon-WCO]

I only hate ones that cost money. Locking an art concept behind a paywall makes you a bad person.

[@SimpleNicks]

That includes all adoptables as well as every fursona ever made btw

[@Ocorydon-WCO]

@SimpleNicks no it doesn't, cause those aren't concepts. That's a personal character. A concept is what shouldn't be behind a paywall.

[@mothshroooms]

​@@SimpleNicks They meant general concepts like "fluffy shrimp" or "robot raptor" not a specific character with unique markings, style, and features

[@TheobaldLeonhart]

I personally don't really like the idea of them. Like "yes, I'll pay you $300 so I have the right to draw your species" But I also understand, that there's like, thousand of open species, and I can just... Make one of them

[@SimpleNicks]

the same can be said about adoptables. you have to pay to have the right to own that character and draw them, and some adopts are even more expensive than that

[@stownjam]

​@@SimpleNicks it's different because a myo is like a ticket, not a design like an adoptable. You don't get a design, all you get is a placeholder

[@fredericksaxton9782]

​@@SimpleNicks With adoptables It's already created. With MYO Its basically "Pay as much as a gaming console to do all the work yourself!" Like dang, I wish I knew I could make so much bank off people while doing nothing. Popular artists selling HQ adopts they already designed and drew for $100? Nahh, just pay $300 to do all the work yourself to be a part of some exclusive club!

[@jayce1850]

@@fredericksaxton9782 For real. I would 100% pay for the rights to use a well-designed adoptable if I felt like I was gonna do anything with the character (I already have a million OCs I drew one time to work the design out and then never drew again.) There are a lot of creative and worthy adoptables that are worth the effort. But seeing CS stans be like "Put in the work to get a MYO instead of knocking off!" Um, excuse me I'm not going to work real hours killing the nerves in my feet in a dead Walmart just to come home sleep-deprived and pay some kid for permission to draw a fox with a water tail when I can just... Y'know... Grab a drink after coming home and put in the effort to draw the water fox right away without wasting money to ask for permission. I have paper, I own a tablet. Random kids on DA or FA aren't my mom/boss and idc if it won't have the official species name.

[@Waskomsause]

Ngl, was giving the video a chance, but "it's just so sad how unoriginal that person is" at 4:40 is kinda just... A lot of people do that to see if the community will snap at them, see if they're dangerous. A good point is how ANY lizard with a few horns gets called out for "copying" a certain REALLY generic closed species. It's disgusting how a lot of the owners act, and that's the issue, they're mostly really big power trips.

[@SimpleNicks]

I dont use my time trying to antagonize people by making knockoffs, there are not so good people, but i dont use that as a reflection of the community

[@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX]

Uhm okay sooo as someone with a closed species I’ll admit my idea aint the most unique- However I wouldn’t try to claim any dragon with a tv head or 4 wings- However let’s say someone makes a clone saying “haha this my ‘species’ astrowings” (mine are named retrowings), it’s obvious. May i add most big popular closed species don’t care for ppl who copy infact cccat don’t care and Primagens actively endorse it if u just call ur prime “unoffical” so users don’t try to buy/sell it as if it is.

[@theplushfrog]

This reminds me of the old signature pets craze. Back when forums were a thing and each of your posts had a "signature" attached, which was generally a space for people to put quotes they liked, links to fanfics or art, as well as images they liked, pics of their OCs, etc. It was generally the place to add a little bit of personality so people knew what you were about. Often they were limited by pixel size, file size, etc. But back then it was SUPER popular to collect "pets" which often were hosted on another site, and when someone clicked on your pet from your signature, it would lead them back to the website where often the click "fed" the pet or something, often leading the pet to hatch or grow or etc. And while yes, you could technically just copy the image into your signature and claim the pet as yours, it was seen as bad taste. Many had forums where you could RP the pets or take part in community chatter, just like these discords today. These pets also often had some kind of in-world currency you earned to get more eggs to hatch, or decor for your pets. Sometimes the way you made this currency was by posting on the forums--so people who didn't have school or jobs and were very social automatically had legs up on others to get fancier stuff. It's no different now--someone's always got it easier than others. These kinds of pets are what spawned more corporate versions like Neopets, Flight Rising, and even Webkinz. I see closed species as just the new version of the old pets. Nothing new, just more money exchanging hands, and now instead of having a pet, it's your fursona. Same difference. Hopefully no corporation decides they want part of the pie. I have my issues with some closed species, but imo it comes down to--if you don't like how they're run/made, don't buy them. That's all.

[@kaiyodei]

forums are not popular anymore? I thought it was just me not going to them like I used to(for fandom related things)

[@azortoonz]

tbh, you gave me a brand new light about this whole topic, thank you for that. i myslef i am not a huge fan of closed species, mainly bc of the money, but at the end of a day i'm like "why do i give a crap, if others people have money, they will buy it anyway" and move on. but i do remeber one case of a closed species owner who tried copyright their species as a whole, and it ended up as a failure. so yea, that owner was kind of a jerk. but not every owner of a cs is like this, and if they are cool, i don't have problems with them.

[@SimpleNicks]

Thats really refreshing to hear :)

[@itsFRiD4Y]

I prefer to make my own lore/worlds for my characters, but being part of a community could be fun. Only point I personally don't like about closed is the paying for changes. Not huge ones, but like what if you want to make a color a slightly different shade? Overall great video! There are good and bad things to every community, but people often blow the bad out of proportion

[@lotustea6806]

Need i mention closed species ARE TOXIC. They prey off of FOMO (fear of missing out) and Scarfox is one of the WORST of this situation.

[@lotustea6806]

I also find it funny how you say they cant be associated with nfts when closed species DO SCAM. great example: grems scamming someone from a mania episode, scarfox charging a fee to leave the group (a 70$ fee at that) A simple look on cs vent groups, cs screenshots on tumblr is a great access to how these groups are insanely damaging

[@SimpleNicks]

scams are not exclusive to closed species and so I dont think its credible to list that as an issue. fursuit makers scam, all artists have this potential, even revoking designs is not closed species exclusive. All art drives of fomo. Artists have limited slots and time, fursuit makers like morefurless are so sought after people are on their queue for years when it cna be argued you could get similar quality elsewhere. but people want that maker, that style. just liek closed species. Toxicity is also not closed species exclusive, I mentioned the video lagovirt did on sergals. Toxicity exists within all communities, the same can and has been said about popufurs having an inherent "pay to win/better than you" personality. which again, is taking individuals to paint the whole as the problem.

[@lotustea6806]

​@@SimpleNicks ​@Simple Nick's no, scams and toxicity isnt exclusive to these places. But that doesnt negate that it makes up a very large part of the communities. Coming from over 20 different species, The entire premise of closed species is: if you want anything, pay for it. Which all the power to them if you want to do that. But dont get pissy when people make their own to avoid the price tag so long as it isnt the namebrand nor out of spite. Its no different than someone making their own fursuit, their own water dog, because they dont have the money to achieve it. And saying "you pay or deal with it" in a community meant for freedom makes no sense. If you want to pay for the namebrand feel free. But you cant ignore how heavily toxic the groups are due to the heavy fact of everything being price tagged. Not to mention those who will massacre others for making something similar to the precious namebrand. There needs to be respect on both sides. If people want to pay 500$ for a chicken legged reptile, let them. But its also fair for others to like the design and make their own so long as they dont call it the name brand

[@thew.i.partist562]

Definitely agree with Scarfoxes being one of the worse. I use to own one, but traded them away. The owner is a good person to put it lightly. Chimereons have a HUGE problem with scamming as well. People often would do a partial resale PLUS asking for expensive chimereons as a loophole to make profit, on top of people tending to join raffles to win chimereons, only to trade them off soon after. So it makes it nearly impossible to get your hands on one besides a myo slot, which are also a pain to get. Not to mention hoarders as well. I do miss my old Scarfox and Chimereon, but it was for the best for my health.

[@notsozenzeneth8018]

My main thing against chimereons is just how hostile that community is. Most closed species im in wont straight up consider you a lesser person for not having one and they often present opportunities for the not overly rich to participate

[@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX]

Ye and like- a lot of species allow free to get ways- Primagens and rare protogens actually allow ppl to make their own if their called “unofficial” which is fair- as they aren’t and often they aren’t hated for it- but even endorsed. And a lot of closed species have free varieties

[@moxxie03]

Honestly, I was in their discord once and I don’t like their community either, and I’ve been in a few closed species groups. A lot of the members were just aggressive little punks that got hostile over the smallest disagreement, didn’t even have to be related to the species

[@jiroup7390]

it has been 6 years of me in the fandom my OC is still in the "design process"

[@drakenbakken]

I don't think I'll ever change my opinion that closed species are dumb. Value should come from the creativity and uniqueness not artificial scarcity. The NFT comparison is super fair, it's rare because the maker says it's rare. If a million people have custom Pokemon fursonas what makes any of these closed species people think they have more right than Nintendo? We should encourage creativity not gatekeep it. Just my opinion. I also sell fursuits and could make more money if I was willing to do this but it strait up feels scummy/scammy. I will NEVER do a closed species.

[@Shia-j8c]

I've always been scared and wobbled around what I want my fursona to be bc I get scared and worry that somewhere, in the world someone would tell me "Ey you kinda copied *Person I've never seen*." Though, I still have a lot of time to decide it and I hope that my creativity will spark something soon enough.

[@thebedroomshow9010]

Art theft and trolls aside, I will always apply the "Star Wars" example I came up with to this topic. When you look at the expansive and detailed world that George Lucas came up with, its without a doubt that fans would flock to it and form communities over it. All good. Some dress up as the characters, make up their own story lines, and meet to discuss their interests of the Star Wars world and stories. All good. But what if people started making their own characters or adjusted versions of characters that still exist within the Star Wars world and its lore? What if people made stories using these characters that are still grounded in the world and lore of Star Wars? And what if George Lucas retaliated by barring those people from seeing his movies or disrupting the dissenting communities? That would be silly, because he doesn't need to. George Lucas has ample faith and confidence in his work being his own and of his own creation. He doesn't need a certificate or a group of people to agree that this is the case. Yes, copyright exists for that reason, but none of us have created anything of the caliber of George Lucas for that to be necessary. If the gate keeping measures taken by these communities are to act as its own form of rudimentary copyright then it works to deter those who are looking for an accessible community to join, more so than it does to deter intellectual theft. I understand that the effect of those with dissenting interpretations of the stock creative work have a more direct reach to the creator(s) of that work. That, if the project was on a small enough scale that the dissenting art would confuse newcomers and divert their attention from the og version of the project. Sure, that is a valid concern... but any publicity is good publicity. To make the most of what is literally a fan's art of your idea, you first double down on your idea by disseminating supporting media of it and then support the dissenting works while making it clear that you were the original creator of that idea. This accomplishes two things: people aren't turned off by the exclusivity you would otherwise have, and would respect you more as being a creator welcoming of new people and ideas. With this added exposure, its more likely that people would be redirected to the page(s) on which you post the guidelines and rules for your idea, and those wanting to follow them can do so too. Be the bigger man. Bottom line, by turning away those with an interest in your created world and/or characters with monetization, waitlists, and punishment for not adhering to your strict rules, you are turning away someone who could have helped your idea's longevity through their contribution to your work. You certainly don't see George Lucas trying to discourage people from being fans of his work just because they want to play with it like a child plays with Legos. That would be silly, because like the child who creates something new and special to them out of the premade pieces, a fan can do the same.

[@vivaldi_is_dreaming]

Punishment agreed, but you realize ... that people need money to live, and in order to facilitate the continued creation of a project, it needs funding, yes? Complaining about monetization of a project is shooting it in the foot - these things often aren't passion projects that can be handled in minutes a day, just like art requires time and effort to create. Creators are by right entitled to monetize their projects, particularly if that's the only route they have to continue it.

[@reiphas]

@@vivaldi_is_dreaming What do open species creators need funding for tho? Paying for adoptables and comissions makes sense, because it's paying for something handmade, but why do you need to pay for the right to create your own creature? Discord servers are free. Worldbuilding is also free. What's there that needs funding? Is someone making a TV show on the closed species and needs money?

[@vivaldi_is_dreaming]

@@reiphas ... you know that these things are often done by *professional artists*, yes? Not all of them, but many creators are adults - worldbuilding is not "free," it takes TIME. It takes time and creativity and energy and the effort of doing it as well as the skill to organize it and make it cohesive. The art itself takes time. Skill. What do they need funding for??? Rent, food, electricity, internet connection, LOL. Art and species aren't just a hobby - they are for some people, and those tend to be less expansive and well developed than people who use the money to LIVE and provide entertainment and art for people. No, they're not "making a TV show," they're literally creating entertainment for people and that deserves pay as much as any other entertainment job.

[@vivaldi_is_dreaming]

@@reiphas Also, the paying for the right to create a creature is paying for the right to use someone else's ideas - I didn't fully understand what you said the first time and reread it and realized I missed that. If you don't want to, don't, go make your own, don't pay someone for creating something of their species - but you're not entitled to the work someone else put in to their worldbuilding, because as I said ... that takes time, energy, effort, and creativity, and when someone is doing that as the work they're providing for people who want to fund it, it's tantamount to stealing to try and claim that work, yanno?

[@reiphas]

@@vivaldi_is_dreaming Since you are so livid and you obviously misunderstand as to what I am referring to, please let me explain. Of course world building is time-consuming. I know it, as I am both an artist and a worldbuilder myself. BUT, that being said, you wrote, and I quote, "in order to facilitate the continued creation of a project, it needs funding". What kind of funding does anyone need for their worldbuilding project held on discord? What kind of professionals do they need to hire? What essentials do they need to buy in order for that discord server to continue operating? There are projects that need crowdfunding, and it's reasonable to request it - like movies, or games, where you need to hire many actors, artists, writers, composers and directors in order to get something worth experiencing. But worldbuilding is a one-man job, or a collaboration if you really want someone else to be a part of it. All you need is a sheet of paper, honestly. No resources required. Going back to the George Lucas example OP brought up, do you think it would be okay for Lucas to charge his employees money for the chance to work on Star Wars? He needed to pay rent too anyway. He needed a house, food, water to wash himself, money for a doctor, in case he fell ill. Why hadn't he made them pay him? They took part in his worldbuilding and filmography project, he was providing them with a space where, assuming they were interested in scifi, they could help bring his vision to life, and even bring something of their own ideas to the big screen. Or Tolkien. Why hasn't he made people pay for Lord of The Rings before he finished writing it? He was working hard on this series for a decade, why wasn't he compensated for his time during the production? It was a worldbuilding project and he needed money back then, didn't he? Everyone needs money. I need money. Will you buy a slot in my limited-space list of people who are allowed to use the species I created myself? I really need money for a surgery and to win a legal case, will you buy it to help me, since you're so concerned with the well-being of artists? I spent half my life developing this concept, I deserve to be rewarded after all, even though I never invested more than a price of a notebook and an internet connection to create it. Closed species don't need money for development, and some authors don't even make art of characters they are selling, they just sell slots on a list. And as even some people who used to own entire closed species here - noone owns any particular set of traits. Stealing a whole-ass designs is wrong. Stealing lore is wrong. But doing fan characters for someone's lore is not wrong. And if it is you need to call the police on every brony ever. How dare bronies not pay Hasbro for the right to make their shitty OCs? So yeah. Closed species are literally just NFTs - a reciept for the seat on a discord server you just bought. If you think otherwise, you should buy my closed species.

[@SplatToaster_N093]

In my defense Its not because i can its because i love the design and dont want to pay 1,000,000$ for a dog made from food or a cat with no eyes btw also in my defense i have never made an "Illlegal" species im just saying i wouldnt do it to show off

[@SimpleNicks]

Befofe you comment replace “closed species” w/ either “adopt” “Fursuit” or “artist” “I don’t like adopts that are boring & unimaginative” congrats that’s all canine adopts. “Fursuit owners are pretentious” thats projection. “Artists are only in it for the money” So? “Adopts are gatekeeping designs” would you want someone copying your OC? Cant you just make literally any of the 2million other species that exist or are we just upset about the ones you dont want to pay for

[@yakuzaman5074]

THIS, for so long I've been afraid to do character adopts because I didn't want someone to say" it's lazy" and it doesn't have enough effort for the price... or the species isn't unique enough, this and I feel like another thing that gets talked shit a lot about in the art community / furry community ychs.

[@asleepyb0i400]

“Artists are gay” Indeed 👌

[@binomialnomenclature1758]

This is a bad take imo, not all closed species are bad, but there's a lot of issues that are deeply intertwined with closed species Fursuits and closed species are not comparable, adoptable and closed species are more comparable but not exactly A fursuit is a commission of your oc, you are paying an artist for their art, their execution of a commission, a closed species is paying someone to be able to make a fan oc While there can be extra things involved with a closed species community, that's not a guarantee, at its core it's paying to be able to make a fan oc. Closed species wouldn't be an issue if many closed species didn't use very simple concepts, a fusion between two species, and sometimes even whole taxons are only going to have a few ways to look cute Where are you going to put shrimp or crustacean features in general on a dog/land mammal without it looking creepy? On the ears and tail, there's only so many different ways you can do this concept and have it fit a certain vibe. Oftentimes it's really superficial features that differentiate two interpretations of a simple concept, which makes it really difficult to separate people who are copying, people who are inspired, and people who coincidentally make a similar design The lore behind closed species, but complicated lore is also not a guarantee

[@jayce1850]

I would 100% pay for the rights to use a well-designed adoptable if I felt like I was gonna do anything with the character (I already have a million OCs I drew one time to work the design out and then never drew again.) There are a lot of creative and worthy adoptables that are worth the effort. But seeing CS stans be like "Put in the work to get a MYO instead of knocking off!" Um, excuse me I'm not going to work real hours killing the nerves in my feet in a dead Walmart just to come home sleep-deprived and pay some kid for permission to draw a fox with a water tail when I can just... Y'know... Grab a drink after coming home and put in the effort to draw the water fox right away without wasting money to ask for permission. I have paper, I own a tablet. Random kids on DA or FA aren't my mom/boss and idc if it won't have the official species name.

[@ToastyGhost2]

Not the same thing.

[@kylezsmilez563]

This has given me a new perspective however I'm still wobbly on close species. The reason why I stopped liking them is because I was on MOJ (Ministry of Joy) Amino when I was younger. I was a big fan of the ride and did alot of smiler based fanart and made a lion smiler sona. I discovered jingle jesters and fell in love. I wanted to make my own sk I did, I make a very unique original jester design and worked hard on it. Drew it out and spent ages colouring it. I was very proud and even gave it a back story and personality. I was excited to post it on the Amino and I was hoping the original creator of the jesters would like it and I talked about how much I adored their species. In response I was told to delete it, I hadn't realised the species was closed and I wasn't allowed to make my own only pay for pre existing ones of which I didn't want. I loved my own design the most but I couldn't show it off and what was meant to be a sign of appreciation and love for their idea was made to feel like I'd insulted them. I felt horrible and sad I had to delete it. I wondered as to why I couldn't make mh own design, I thought it was like any other fan art of the smiler I'd done or art of series and ocs I've made based on things such as steven universe etc. Til this day I still love my jingle jester oc but it's very existence almost feels illegal. To me my design was very personal to me and I put alot of love into it yet it wasn't valid as it shared characteristics of this species.

[@furthings]

Your OC is incredibly vaild!! I hate how this response killed your love for them. It's one of the many reasons I detest CS. If you still like the design you should still draw them. What are they gonna do, send a mean message on the internet that you can ignore? You made your own unique character, therefore you can do whatever you want with it

[@kylezsmilez563]

@@furthings thank you! 😊 At the time I was very young so it really affected me when I had such negative responses to posting it. I just wanted to make friends, show appreciation and find community. I now don't see CS as really that deep, I feel like people should be allowed to have fun as long as they aren't full on plagiarizing or tracing

[@ghosted_joey9249]

as someone who's made a species I'm really happy with, I'd hate if someone made an oc of my species without telling me. I worked years on this species and yeah, I would enjoy a little bit of money for *my* species. I put the hard work into making the species, so if someone just blatantly ignored my wishes because I ask for a little bit of money, then how am I in the wrong??? of course, I'd never make this species public, as I'm not going to deal with people trying to cancel me for wanting a little money for something I make

[@fredericksaxton9782]

Personally I detest closed species with a passion. That's just my opinion of course, I just can't stand overpriced exclusive clubs for anyone willing to shell out, and closed species are just disguised versions of those. You can say "Would you like someone to copy your character?" but a species is different than a specific character design. If I were to copy someones specific CHARACTER of a species, that is wrong, I don't believe making one of a species is. For example, if someone copied my character I'd be upset like you said, duh. But can I stop people from being inspired to create rabbit characters? No. Because it's a species, not a character. I could not in good conscious make a species and then keep others from making one, and thrn claim making one is the same as copying a specific character, it's just not. Nothing I can do about it and I've rarely spoken on it, so take what I say with a grain of salt, my opinion isn't meant to offend.

[@rylandroo1992]

I agree

[@kaiyodei]

true, there is a differnce in that and someone ripping off someone ripping off a CS that might be a ripoff of another thing like a Neopet design(i was a member when the Zarafa changed from short, long, hooved to the kangaroo dinosaur, or pokemon

[@malachite2293]

For me its mostly cause I'm scared that I'll accidentally make something that looks like a closed species even if I didn't mean to for example I wanted to make a Oreo ice cream inspired dog character cause it's my favorite and I was new in the fandom but then I heard about that closed species and thought "oh that sounds a lot like what I wanted to make" so I never did.

[@motharonii]

i may be 6 months late, but hey, if you want to make a character. just do it, there shouldnt be worry about accidentally making something similar to an already existing closed species because closed species is just a stupid concept. if you want to make that oreo ice cream dog, just do it. its just a dog with ice cream features/markings after all. just do your own thing:)

[@red-anteater]

I tumbled into the CS groups early on and it's honestly the community that drew me in. not wanting an "exclusive" design. but being in a group w friends and having prompts and events to partake in is just rly fun! great explanation in this vid! thanks for laying it all out!

[@notsozenzeneth8018]

I think it depends on the species and the attitude of the admins. I've seen some pretty unique ones and met some kind owners. However I've also met some ridiculously rude closed species communities. Like the ones that are literally just toony chameleons with manes. That community is quite rude if you can't afford $300+ for one of those hairy chameleons

[@notsozenzeneth8018]

Chimereon. A video about them just showed up in my recommendations lol

[@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX]

Tbh yeah I will def say that’s true for sure- A lot of closed species can be uhm toxic but that’s often just due to a toxic owner or community not the fact it’s a closed species. And tbh as someone harassed by just a regular artist- it rly can be anyone

[@animal_lord5743]

I often make monsters and mashed up creatures, mainly getting inspired by a mutual's own original species to make my own as well.

[@kosminen-kettu]

Honestly as much as I agree with certain parts of your videos I think you gloss over some of the more heavily important parts of criticizing the closed species community that a lot of people can't properly articulate, aka the capitalization of mental illness and FOMO. The main reason closed species are closed is to drive up the monetary value. Adopt makers do deserve their due pay (I am an adopt maker) and I don't blame anyone for up charging their beautiful art and design capabilities, we should still recognize how often people who buy from these groups do it out of wanting to be accepted and supported by a community that views them as a paycheck. I cannot tell you how many mentally ill people I've seen paying hundreds of dollars for adopts just to immediately go and then complain about their monetary woes online and in private. While these people absolutely do need to work on themselves, they're already not sound enough to know when to stop. Do we not as a community and people with morals need to make sure that these people are able to even care for themselves before we take from them three hundred to a thousand dollars? Should there be a reform to the system where there's accountability? Aka, where do we draw the line between artist and corporate greed, when do we suffer with integrity as artists? Also comparing game dlc to closed species is a bad analogy, most game dlc is buyable once for 20 to 50 dollars and you have unlimited access to the content for the foreseeable future where as the complaint with closed species is that they can charge you hundreds for one trait for one character. It's not like you unlock that trait for eternity?? And in some cases you even have to pay to remove the trait. Most cosmetic dlc for games is 1 dollar to 30 at most?? Think mmos like ffxiv that have you pay 3 dollars to unlock an emote from a past event for one character on an account. Inherently to redesign a character in a closed species you have to pay a hefty sum to make something yourself too while a game already has the dlc pre-made for you to attach and use at your leisure. Those were my two biggest issues, otherwise nice video! It's always nice to see folks talk about species in general and while I have obvious distaste for them I always like to hear arguments for both sides and I've always wished I liked them more. ^_^ I think the idea of exclusivity isn't inherently bad and can even be used to a positive effect. The idea of fostering an artist community under the idea of playing with the boundaries of a creator's world has always been very fun to me, and I love the limitations put forth by closed species to make the characters more believable as a homogeneous group of beings with their own visuals and cultures. CS are a world builder's dream and I have nothing but respect towards people who put so much love into their craft and adore what they do!

[@vivaldi_is_dreaming]

As someone who runs two basically-closed species (it's more the art is entry to the world/rp/event space, the species themselves aren't closed) - not all exclusivity is from greed or driving up monetary value. My pricing is based on an hourly wage as an artist, and the closed aspect is more to make sure people read and acquaint themselves with the space before we do art for them (as we always offer a single newbie freebie for newcomers), and also to ensure that we have enough time to fill the demand (as we don't allow MYOs because the adopt art has a general style we strive to match). Just something to think about - not everyone is greedy.

[@Blueshark8O9]

Nowadays when someone says they made a new species I say "Is it a dog with wings?"

[@doukzu]

6:50 this one already makes me laugh. Limitations are my favorite parts of species! The limitations of evoloons, an open species based on evolving your loon the more you draw them, was what got me latched onto them in the first place. It made me flex my creative muscles when I was new to character design. The best part was entering events and getting/making gift art not only to evolve my own loons, but to contribute to the world itself. Like Griffsnuff's bagbean species! The lore is so cool!! Just Griffians as a whole, honestly. And I usually don't end up using my own OC designs when they're made without any guidelines or some attachment to a fandom. Limitations help me make something I'll _actually_ enjoy using. Also a huge fan of Pokefusions even if I don't buy them- they always end up with such cool combinations I never see in entirely original/not fandom inspired designs.

[@SimpleNicks]

evolution through drawing them sounds like a really fun concept!

[@ArcadeStim]

alot of closed species have events to get free myo slots :3 so just dont be an ass

[@robodachi3062]

The way you're only glazing comments that agree with you. Yeah totally an unbiased perspective

[@keepslayingthedayaway]

I don't even know what you were talking about through the whole video, but it was interesting

[@Alue_KittyKode]

I'm apart of a few Closed species, (I'm also an admin for an Ex Closed, now open species

[@b100d.br02]

its the way the people with a closed species act, they are so pretentious and annoying about it, plus half the closed species are uggo

[@SimpleNicks]

You can say that about fursuit owners lol. I wouldnt insult someones art just bc its a dog or a cat. And people are pretentious about all kinds of random things, its not just closed species

[@leolunastal]

I'm mad at myself I never made the connection between closed species and NFTs until I saw this video

[@plushiewatches]

I personally do disagree with a few points in this video. I do believe that if someone wants to grab a closed species of make one, that's their choice and I'm fine with that. I'm more opposed to how often witch-hunting and harassment does occur, which I know you bring up. I just disagree with the notion that the witch hunting only comes from 13-14 year olds with saying the species owners advise against it. Sure, many do, but there's been plenty of times where the species owners do get involved by sending harassment, or the harassers being adults. Generally, I just disagree with how downplayed you seem to make it. I don't dislike the closed species themselves, but rather I dislike how cult-like some of the communities within them become. There also seems to be a confused blend in your arguments, mixing adopts and closed species as being the same. Adopts are individualized OCs and can be from open species, closed species are a more generalized brush stroke over traits and ideas. I also dislike the broad paint stroke of saying *all* people who dislike closed species are either just jealous, white knights, or just like to have something to dislike. I'm not sure if my thoughts in this come through well. But even if I do disagree, I did enjoy the video and can't wait for the next one!

[@SimpleNicks]

Adopts in the art community only gained widespread acceptance simce ive been in the fandom, but many had the exact same grievences as closed species. Any oc we have, we consider the design traits closed and not to be replicated. When someone copies someones art intentionally, most are upset. But when people go out of their way to imitate closed species, theyre able too, i just find it distasteful and childish

[@plushiewatches]

@@SimpleNicks I personally don't have issues with adopts, because again, they are personalized and are specifically the one oc. But I'm sure we likely will just have a fundamental disagreement on it, given that while I understand creating a whole species does take a lot of work, I don't really understand why one would choose closed vs open, even after this vid and another by mali-malware. Especially with how in a closed species, someone easily could come up with their own design and such for a closed species, but that's still sometimes seen as bad if the person making the design hasn't paid the species maker. Idk. I'm probably rambling and not concise, I'm currently at work so I apologize for that

[@aurathewolf6737]

I'm fine with closed species as long as their creative. Example is someone gives a wolf a third eye and wings.. *cough* Totally not my character.. *cough* Anyone can easily come up with it.

[@clawedK9]

I really dislike closed species. But the direct stealing of the art isn't really ok. Iv'e made a Screech/CCCat fursuit, (screech being the open species based off the closed species CCCat, but honestly i just say it's a screech suit so people don't threaten to sue me lol. ofc, i would never buy into a closed species, but i would also never directly copy the style and attributes of them.

[@TrixyTrixter]

Literally cannot sue you. A species can not be legally protected only exact designs within the species.

[@briank2633]

I feel like anyone should be able to make fan characters of any species. Furries are all about their OCs. Disney owns wookies, but no one bats an eye when some one makes a wookiee. In the same sense, someone should be able to make a protogen OC without any push back. I do agree 100% that an artist should be able to charge as much as they want for the art they produce, and if they want run an exclusive club of canon characters that's fine too, but no would should get hate for making an OC. That is just my opinion, thank you for sharing yours. Your videos are great and I always look forward to more.

[@MAWbomb]

I would die for my Pacapillers. ive had them for YEARS now

[@lotustea6806]

Exactly, closed species are just a namebrand

[@SimpleNicks]

as are popular fursuit makers, lol, the same oculd be said if someonewas excited to commission their favorite maker/artist. we shouldnt shame others for being excited to join a comunity or own a luxury good they are looking forward too.

[@Angel-qz9tn]

Honestly same, I have some scarfox designs that are my darlings. I’ve drawn them soo much and I could never part with them. But totally agree with you, the events are what making closed species unique. At least for me ^^

[@RedHatGuyYT]

WE KEEPIN' THE GATES WITH THIS ONE 👏🗣‼️

[@crispychickenuggets]

I’m not the biggest fan of many closed species, but the video explains and helps people understand some misinformed topics amazingly! I even learned a few things myself!

[@cartoonbazookacb7687]

I don’t want to own closed species, because I like using myths and legends from around the world more. However, I can’t even post my ideas. I don’t want to use these designs, sell them, or be in the group, I essentially want to have fun with the concept, but I’ve been told to take them down regardless. I think that does stifle creativity when I’m essentially making something comparable to fanart. The only way to publish my designs was to sign up for the guest artist thing, and of course they won’t pick me when it’s a popular species and I’m drowned out by others with the same request. It’s a losing battle where if I do show something I’m proud of I’ll be yelled at for doing so.

[@cartoonbazookacb7687]

I understand that people can steal the designs I make, but that’s why they have the database. I don’t care if you want to be part of the group or buy it, and actually using those designs as a persona is kinda eh. However, sometimes, you just want to mess with a design you find cool, and it’s annoying to be prevented from doing that. Yes, you can keep them to yourself, but I like showing people the art I made that I give a darn about

[@TheGrumpiestPanda]

I as someone that was harassed by a rather large artist with a decently well know closed species, I can't say anything good about them. It's just gatekeeping and an easy out for harassing smaller artists. How does one claim copyright over what, more often than not, are simple hybrids at the very end of the day? It limits creativity and people are too scared to think outside the box because they feel they'll upset the wrong person. Sure, I get it, it's not fun to see blatant knockoffs made by literal children and the artists have every right to be upset. It's just in my experience and a few other friends, they ended up getting harassed because they made a character that was "too similar", and 95% of the time they weren't even aware of said closed species in general.

[@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX]

Tbh a lot of this rings ignorance I won’t lie- U need to remember that in ur eyes u could have been very well another kid on TikTok trying to get attention from them- if they treat u kindly it could just lead to them acting even worse and no I’m not saying u are… but dealing with kids like that on the daily WILL WEAR U DOWN. And now for the rest! Closed species is sorta broken into subtypes and the one ur talking about is “fake claims” These are often species made with the goal to attack ppl with similar ocs and act as if they copied- which most closed species owners actually don’t endorse. In fact! Cccat and Primagens/rare protogens allow ppl to make their own free of charge as long as they are stated to be unofficially made or just “unofficial”. Often fake claimers are simple concepts such as mixing water or food to a species orrr hybrids like u said, these are often on pintrest or deviant art and in no way should represent the whole of the community. As someone with ocs similar to closed species and someone who owns one, I’ve never seen someone harassed unless the owner already wasn’t a good user.

[@KuroBraixen]

Omg Im glad you touched on pokefusions, i tried selling some and instantly had people barking up my tree saying that I dont own pokemon and that they are illegal to sell, so I stopped trying to sell them

[@vivaldi_is_dreaming]

Good free blocklist. You don't own the pokemon but you own the DESIGN you made. They're just assholes who don't think artists should profit from their work (and have a very poor understanding of copyright law).

[@kaiyodei]

technically they are correct. any derivative is copyright infringement

[@Waskomsause]

@@vivaldi_is_dreaming Nah, ngl, people were right on this one, nintendo can outright sue you for selling pokemon related stuff that isn't 100% your own.

[@phykoha]

I personally both like and dislike closed species for various reasons. They can be really cute, and the art is often very nice looking. And a lot of the artists are actually really nice as well. Meanwhile, my partner and I have had a bad experience with one, and it's left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd never spend near hundreds of dollars on something like that, but honestly, if other people want to then who are we to stop them?

[@NomzNoodle]

I have a xero, a closed species that I absolutely adore. The community is extremely kind and I feel like the design of the characters is pretty unique. Did I have to pay for my character? Yeah, but I chose to! And I love it! It’s okay to have fun, we all make fan art for each other and it’s a fun community!!

[@foxcaty]

THANK YOUUU, I'm not part of of a closed species community myself, but i'm dating someone who is very involved in in the team behind one of them and the they do SO MUCH UNPAID WORK, the high sale prices of the adopts don't even begin to cover what they should be getting paid. They make under minimum wage, just in large bursts at a time when they make a sale. People within and outside of the closed species community like to act like these artists are rich and greedy and nothing could be farther from the truth. It truly is not worth the grief they get from all sides, and that's a damn shame, because these passion projects should be about the joy of it, the passion of bringing your species and their world to life with a community of people who like your work and share your passion. I can totally understand not being a fan of closed species, just... don't join one then. Like they're basically virtual pet games made by independent artists, if the game doesn't appeal to you for the price, DON'T BUY IN. Simple as.

[@Virianwastaken]

i love cccats so much :') they may be closed but its lore is SO detailed and well thought out and its actively got events every month where you do art to enter to get a chance for a free myo, theres such amazing people and with myos and you can trade them for other cccats and now i have my dream cccat !! i love em to bits

[@TheCouncilofHoods]

I have a mild love/hate relationship with CS, there's always been something about them that rubs me the wrong way and I to this day couldn't tell you what. The most I can guess is that I find them a little too close to NFTs for comfort. Not going to yell at someone for enjoying, taking part in, or making a living off of them, I just don't want to be part of it personally at this stage.

[@Lithic.flakes]

I personally think that there are good species and bad species. There are some really creative ones out there that I totally support, but if you slap wings on a dog and call it a closed species, I will take you for a 12 year old

[@Tsubirin]

Lol I semi-randomed into making fluffy shrimp. I didn't know it was a closed species and now I feel weird about the adopts I sold XD That being said, I do think that the worst part of closed species is when the community runners go after people who are just designing things in the same kind of vein. I personally think that closed species are really neat, especially the ones with a community already attached. I just recently got into closed species and yeah, at first they gave me really strong NFT vibes but I also realize that a lot of them have rules in place to try and prevent the inflation of prices. And most people in the community are just really nice. The def get more hate than they deserve but I also think that's the same kind of generalized hate that people like to propagate, like how the general media thinks furries are weird even though they're just people.

[@rechiigu]

I personally own a closed species character (a Kofling, one of the most original I have seen), and I personally enjoy closed species, even if I have been confronted with the idea that "no one would pay real money for a character design you can make for free". It's mostly like you said, I really enjoy the community around closed species. Even if I think the reactions of some of the members are outrageous (you can't own an idea unless it's a patent and closed species can't be patents by definition), it's not great to paint the entire space as toxic. Great video, keep it up!

[@ellwoomy3165]

Can you at least credit the people? The fluffy shrimp was a joke In between friends, that whole account was.

[@SimpleNicks]

I dont usually credit people being criticized to avoid harassment but sure

[@SimpleNicks]

Comment the timestamp and @ and ill add it.

[@rylandroo1992]

​@@SimpleNicks Don't credit people to avoid harassment, what??

[@altozecter]

closed species got me isolated from furry art communitites because i dont have one and these people tend to ignore me for not having one lol this is why i suffer from constant loneliness

[@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX]

Maybe don’t try to join those groups then?.. that’s like trying to force urself into a ps4 group without owning one or ever using one?

[@brambleberryproductions1235]

My problem with closed species is simple. You make all this lore. All these guides and interesting point about a species. You make something genuinely cool that people probably want to interact with...and then forbid anyone who can't afford it from interacting with it. Nobody can stop me from getting a pen and some paper and making what I want. I hate the idea of art as a "property". You should never claim ownership of someone else's idea, but ideas are there to expand on. To inspire. If you make a whole traits guide for your species, you don't get to be upset when someone who can't afford their own rent, let alone your "super special closed species", decides to just...make it themself. Isn't it enough that someone liked it? If they make someone and post it and say "Look at this thing I made! It's inspired by this other artist, go check them out!" it's bound to bring people who do wanna pay you for your work. People who like your artstyle, people who don't have time to draw/don't have the passion for it. People who just say "Oh wow, that's really cool. I should give them some money so they can keep being cool." None of these points really address the core issue of closed species: they're trying to gatekeep something that, at it's core, cannot be gatekept. I don't think it's productive to make fun of them or steal designs Just Because, but I also think there's no point in getting pissy because someone loved your creative idea and wanted one of their own. If I make a Mochi Raptor OC, I can't talk about it. I can't share it or post about it or spread word about the creatures. I can't do anything like that, because it would require acknowledging that they're closed and either end up driving hate towards the creator, or hate towards me for being poor. It gets even worse if you imagine it for an even smaller creator's species. You can open commissions without making a species closed. You can make adoptable without making a species closed. You cannot effectively prevent your creation from being open unless you literally hide the pieces of it from the eyes of the public.

[@Flufshy]

I see what you mean and yes i understand, i tend to not really find interest in species that you're only able to get into if you buy. I love species like for e.g sollems and waterdogs! (these species also never mind if you make a simaliar idea! Just not claim it as appart of the species) Where you can earn species currency and get stuff by just drawing and being appart of it! And i understand the limit of being a closed species but in my view its more fun! But again i completely understand what you mean, but this is how i see it ^^

[@brambleberryproductions1235]

@@Flufshy This still doesn't solve my biggest issue: closed species stifle a community's creativity. Nobody is gonna ask me to pretty please earn this currency before I'm allowed to express an idea. It's just not happening.

[@Flufshy]

@@brambleberryproductions1235 it's just my opinion, I enjoy closed species and the idea of it, that's pretty much how closed species work

[@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX]

Uhm you are aware most ethical closed species allow u too “modify” parts? You can buy a set amount of parts and change them to look different without breaking any rules their simply there as “traits” so u have a ref, now what ur getting and so that not everyone can have the super sparkly ultra rare ankle biter. The whole idea that “they are restrictive” is made up.

[@Persi_Person]

It honestly feels like ppl getting salty bc they can’t get stuff for free or can’t do whatever they want with the species. Artists don’t owe you their creations. They put the time and effort into make something with lore and rules and letting people break those rules defeats the point of the species. If you can’t respect the artist, then you don’t deserve their work.

[@retromutt3443]

I personally love closed species but only the unique ones like chams scarfox skelegoos or hachibos the diversity in designs and colors is super cool! I also adore the lore behind most closed species they really are works of art if you find the right ones :3

[@SimpleNicks]

i dont even mind the not unique ones, most of the time theyre pretty self aware if their species isnt super unique so they wont fight people on similar OCs. but the people who are willing to argue their winged dog is the only one ever, those are usually kids haha

[@retromutt3443]

@@SimpleNicks trruuue XD people trying to claim winged dogs or foxes with fans for tails as a closed species are on a whole other level XD

[@soviwave]

unfortunately chams aren't rlly unique, i've seen people get witchhunted for have a similar looking oc :( not looking for a debate tho

[@retromutt3443]

@@soviwave naw thats totally valid the normal common chams are just fuzzy chameleons but! The unknowns are unique! Like i saw one that was a toy phone X3 But i agree being witchhunted for chams is bull

[@PuppyParty4Life]

I love chams but I made a lizard/dragon OC and some Cham ppl told me to k// ms 😢

[@lonely_saturn]

This was a great video as always, Nick! I had fun chatting with everyone in the premiere!

[@SimpleNicks]

Same here!

[@Ceranyx]

People comparing closed species are also by their own definition saying every single oc they or anyone owns are nfts. It’s sad, because there’s so many good closed species out there but people just don’t care

[@namelessechos5380]

I have never seen your channel before i'm pretty sure, so seeing PK Russel in the intro gave me a heart attack worrying this was somehow PK under a new channel

[@SimpleNicks]

>:) mayhaps

[@CassiusStelar]

Ok... I understand your stance. I'm still making illegal ones though. What are they gonna do, sue me? If I like a design, and I have an idea on how to put my own spin on it, I'm gonna fucking use the design, it's why I have so many sonic OCs, Paper Mario OCs, shit like that I know the creators aren't the ones witch-hunting in most cases, and most of them arent unoriginal but in some cases... They really are. That Zombimi thing you showed off is an example, and i 1. didnt know they existed until this video and 2. Already have a character who looks exactly fucking like them

[@SimpleNicks]

Good for you? I guess?

[@CassiusStelar]

@@SimpleNicks I sound harsh but I wouldn't be doing it if I wasn't a fan of the designs in the first place. No good art comes from hate.

[@SimpleNicks]

“I like your concept but don’t respect that you want compensation for it” Idk when theres millions of species that you can make designs of and peoples go out of their way to imitate others,,kinda yikes, but you do you

[@CassiusStelar]

@@SimpleNicks I'm just saying you shouldn't monetize creativity, and I'm going to do my own thing regardless. I can and have paid for adopts of closed species. Said adopts were "make your own" style tickets, I paid for basically the sticker of approval, but I made them weeks in advance before even contacting the creator.

[@SimpleNicks]

“Shouldnt monetize creativity” thats what all adoptables are, open or not. By that logic you can copy anyones fursona

[@kimchiiisconfuzzled2217]

Thank you for going over this! I personally love most closed species, most have lore and backstory for their species and most aren't just two animals mashed together (though those can be quite common and are perfectly okay!!). I also love the variety and uniqueness that can come from some species!! And closed species are completely optional, you aren't forced to be involved in them unless you want to participate!

[@momstachio]

Thank you for making this video. I'm someone who is fairly involved in several Closed Species, and it always hurts to see videos from people whom I respect where they bash Closed Species with no regard to the other side. I feel like your video is well-researched and that your points are stated neutrally, which I really appreciate. At times the restrictions of Closed Species can be limiting, but it's also always so incredible when you find work arounds to make your vision come to life. The restrictions push me to be a better artist, and for that I am thankful. The communities are usually super kind as well! I've made some good friends by interacting with people for art trades or just trading characters and it's legitimately a good time. And the events hosted by the species can be really fun too! I've participated in a Murder-Mystery RP, art fight, designing characters based on others' prompts, and a lot more. With these communities, it really isn't very difficult to get a character of your own for free, and even if you don't want a character, you're still free to participate in all events. Honestly, I really enjoy participating in what feels like a giant community project, where everyone is trying to add to the same story, and it's really cool :D

[@fxlmine]

I know this video is nearly two years old but genuinely thank you for making this. Most of the comments disagreeing are missing the entire message you're trying to give here... and it's really tiring to read through. most closed species are created by people who genuinely just want to have fun with a community who enjoys what they're coming up with. which is like, the opposite of greed and limiting creativity? and while I do agree there are bad eggs in the ecosystem, these are a lot rarer than they were 10 or even 5 years ago. at least in my experience

[@Supernaturalzorse]

ive only made one rip off of a closed species, it was a spynxim ( i think thats what is called) i just kinda disliked how they where closing off spynxs

[@majesticco.4700]

A lot of the CS I am a part of have free options or options to Earn a free adopt through art/writing/events/raffles. Honestly, I have a blast trying to get one without spending money on them. Its like a game lol. Would I sass people for spending money on them? Nah. It's their money.

[@SimpleNicks]

right? Theres even gatcha style ones, like you get what you pay for honestly

[@porphyrophilia]

im not a part of deviantart anymore but i used to love closed species, with the feature of points on the site i didnt actually have to pay with actual money and just got points by doing adopts or trading between friends. I only have fun memories from them

[@SebastianSeanCrow]

5:40 honestly the “making illegal OCs” really grates me as both an artist who plans on eventually releasing his own species and as someone who’s bought 3 adopts from a closed species AND as someone who just loves and respects art I understand people complaining about unoriginal closed species, complain all you like, but for all we know that person spent years developing their species or relies on the adopts from it to keep a roof over their head

[@TrixyTrixter]

No such thing as "making illegal OCs" Unless you mean "Literally copying an exact design of an OC" rather than making your own from the spiecies.

[@sparks-of-magic]

I'm part of several closes species, I love them!! I usually do myo stuff, and working within the limits is so fun. I am often able to come up with designs I would have never thought of just by looking at the available traits. And the communities are lovely!

[@0skullgutz]

The whole cccat species is kinda dumb. Like why is it a closed species, it’s a cat with no eyes.

[@apocopus]

I agree with a lot of your points but tbh getting into cs was one of the biggest mistakes of my life lol. I hate that getting into cs has made it so I’m unable to make my own thing without thinking “am I stealing? Will I get called out for copying?” It’s a toxic environment and I would advise anyone to avoid them.

[@randomthoughts0829]

Wow this feels like the worst faith interpretation of people who criticize closed species. As someone who was in the c.s community for over a year on Instagram, I saw a lot of the shitty behavior within the community. Theres a lot more criticism i can say about this video but I'm tired now and need to go to sleep. Maybe one day I'll write something up

[@SimpleNicks]

“Closed species who arent hurting people get unnecessary hate, some cs can be bad, but it doesnt affect 99% of people. Haters are usually just get angry when they cant be apart of things they dont even want” Sorry this spicy take was too much for you & I dont blindly hate all closed species.

[@Xx_D4RK_K1N_xX]

Dude every community has unsavory behavior-?

[@KimaDarkSoul]

I personally feel all CS should at least have some sort of option that allows lower income users to still get one without having to shill out nearly $200 for one. Whether it be in-species/game currency, giveaways, or FTO adopt sets. I'm more inclined to join a CS community if there are free methods to obtain a character from them. If a CS is strictly $$ only and upwards near about $100+ for even just a common one (Considering if they have traits) i'm less likely to get involved because I live check to check, im not going to drop $100 on something I may not use like I would with a fursuit, which is physical

[@kaiyodei]

in a kind world that could be a thing. but these artists and owners need the money. especally if they went all out getting a legal trademark on the CS and built a website. but that could be interesting to see the reaction of the owners. a "hello I am a poor 14 year old, can I have a $10 Mewdabranch ? I can't afford the $500 kind"

[@nezasumi]

Nick, you worded everything perfectly and I 100% agree! The amount of people in the comments who are still insisting that CS are stupid and greedy even after given valid reasoning is just sad. Like sure, you can have your own opinion but at this point it just looks like y'all are being argumentative because someone else gave more in-depth reasoning that challenges your own beliefs. And if you hate closed species so much, then why are you wasting your time over it?

[@nataliecoronado4206]

I was on board with this perspective on closed species until it got to the part about how, in your eyes, artists making "illegal" OC designs are trying to act like martyrs. The point these artists are trying to make isn't that they're making a pariah out of themselves for creating an OC based on a closed species. It's to point out how absurd it is that the OC is "illegal" to begin with. Even when the artist follows all the rules of the closed species, if they're not part of the exclusive community it comes from, then it's considered illegal. It's not the same as owning a specific design or a new take on an old concept. The purpose behind a closed species is to be a template, a base for artists to bounce ideas off of and add their own style, flair, or interpretation. So for a community who's whole thing is creating designs specifically made for people to take inspiration from, to then tell artists not in the community that they're not allowed to be inspired by their designs, it all comes across as incredibly hypocritical.

[@SprinkleBunn]

i sure do love making a gyrphon but its too close to a teacup gyrphon uh oh no fuck closed species.

[@SimpleNicks]

I promise you No one cares

[@LuciaArkwright]

Somehow ended up here as utter outsider and this is a window to a strange world I had no idea of. What was most surprising is that cute animal character concepts are something that people buy and sell - and they're not original physical paintings or handmade sculptures etc! Is this just a furry community thing or does same goes on in vibe of other fandoms too like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, South Park, Gundam or Buffy? Well, seems like you have fun doing whatever this is, not judging. Keep going and all the best!

[@OOF69420noscope]

5:40 that reminded me of the time I 'stole' someone's oc to sell because I could. I would like to follow this up by saying I never went through with this because my moral compass wouldn't let me. I have a love/hate relationship with closed species purely because of the fact that someone I knew on the furry amino was banned because the moderators got a Chimeleon and a Chameleon mixed up something that shouldn't happen with closed species let alone big ones. I get how uncommon a chameleon oc is but those who have them or want one should be allowed to have one without being told off. While it goes into point with the first point you made I still feel a closed species shouldn't look like a normal animal you can find on a hike. That's like making Kea's a closed species because not many people have Kea ocs. I agree if you're copying a closed species on purpose you're being a jerk. However you should still be allowed the benefit of the doubt without being kicked out of a large furry space at the time for having a real life creature as an oc. Edit: adding on as I watch the video. I do own closed species characters and think it's fine. Like I said my main problem especially with chimeras is how easy it is for a real life species to get mixed up. I feel closed species should follow one rule; they should not exist in nature. I.E you can't find water dogs in nature, you can't find protogens in nature or cat whatever else hybirds. You can find a lizard with a nose horn. That doesn't mean all the designs are bad it just means they need to look at what actually makes their species unique. If it's purely the community that is also okay I'm not here to tell chimeleons to stop existing. If having a chamelon oc puts you on blacklists or gets you kicked out of furry spaces then maybe the species should set more firm rules to separate it form a simple anthro chameleon.

[@humanbeeing4780]

You shouldn’t have to pay to draw something. Closed species combine a bunch of common traits with an animal like a dog or cat and then go out of their way to witch-hunt and harass anyone who happens to draw those.

[@SimpleNicks]

“You shouldn’t have to-“ you don’t. You don’t have to if you don’t want to. If you want to, its cool to respect artists that made something you want to be apart of

[@humanbeeing4780]

@@SimpleNicksexcept that they witch-hunt and harass you, so…. If you want to avoid death threats you kind of do lmao

[@vulturedrawz]

I actually have a “squid” fursona! It’s a part of MY closed species, squiddles! His name is cuttle :)

[@CMYKITSUNE]

honestly the only reason i don't like cs is the feel that i have to consult someone when it comes to doing something with them like redesigning, i can see why they're doing this but i like a bit of freedom with my characters. i also struggle to connect with them but there will be a few cuties that i will cherish. i sketched out unoffical chimereons to not forget the design when i buy a myo slot but i didn't connect with the community that much so i ended up turning the designs into my own weird creatures that aren't a part of a species or dragons which ended up being some of my favorite ocs. i also have an offical cs character that i love drawing and looking at the design. people don't realize you can take a specific trait they like and just do their own thing. do you like scarfox's arms? then make an oc that looks nothing like them but give them those scarf arms. i see people making knockoffs as a dick move while you could just....make a cool oc for yourself? like theres no way a grem or a cccat is unoriginal

[@DUSTY_SUSHI]

You totally changed my mind about CS! Thank you for the informative video. Looking closer the only issues I have are the community, (like if they’re harassing or toxic) not a closed species itself. Edit: I mean the bad communities and not a good representative of CS communities. I’ve heard most are chill since I dug into the CS debate and most horror stories happened years ago in like 2017. It almost makes me want to make or join one, having a close community like that sounds fun

[@SimpleNicks]

That's exactly what I'm trying to say! I hope you find the right community for you.

[@Angel-qz9tn]

I liked the points you gave, I think it may be a good idea to start explaining closed species to mmorpgs since it's an easier to understand topic for a lot of people not in the fandom. Also there are video games like World of War craft that ask for a user to pay in order to get all the features - much like community driven closed species that allow you to draw npcs and other community characters so you can participate in events, even if you don't have a character. But in order to get full access - per se. You can buy(sometimes you don't need to buy with irl money) a character. Also it is really strange how the art community seems really anti money at times we live in a world where we need money to live... and if we are luck to do as we love into order to get money it's almost frowned upon...

[@10tails]

So, not to be contrarian, but I do have a story to share. A story of my fursona, and his initial design. And I preface this by saying, this is no way is meant to disparage the entirety of the closed species community, which probably isn't even near the state now it was when this story occurred. After all, this was in the 2010's, and is just my anecdotal experience with one person. I was dating a person at the time, they offered to do the art to redesign my fursona as I hadn't had a proper one since disconnecting with my previous one after my ex-fiance` left me. However, during the process, they began to start to disregard the design choices I suggested, instead recommending only traits they say being popular in the Closer Species trading/selling communities they were in. They began to talk extensively about how marketable my idea could be with just some trendy additions, how much selling my bats could make us, how famous we could get in the fandom for hitting the next big thing in the community. I didn't care about any of that. I just wanted a 'sona that represented me. And they resented that heavily. I came to find out that achieving popularity within the Closed Species community was all they really cared about. They talked obsessively about how they needed to hit on a design that was popular, to "trade up" Closed for Closed for high value species to gain popularity through barter, and so they could become friends with 'much better artists'. They would design and put out a new closed species every other day, and then abandon them a week later when no one adopted. And they started getting very toxic about how 'bland, boring, and ugly' my want of just a green bat was. In the end, they passed me a half finished picture one day, with inaccurate colors, and said "There, it's done." I thanked them for all their work, and well, much to their surprise I accepted and loved the character. It wasn't 100% what I wanted, but it represented me in all that it was. That seemed to upset them, like they wanted me to be upset and ungrateful about art I wasn't paying for. We broke up not long after that. I'd wanted to spend time on New Years together, they wanted to try to beg their way into an exclusive online chat with a trendy artist and that was the last straw. I won't deny that this experience has forever colored my opinions of the Closed Species community for years. But it seems that these days it's not what it was back then.

[@DayDreamingWriters]

I actually created my four special spieces(Two of them were created back when I was in MLP fandom, but decide to keep the concept of them, due the fact they were really interesting for me, and not use it for fandom I left) for my story, that I want to publish one day if I finally get my ass to finish it(I have burn out rigth now due how much I spend on world building for these species). So I do understand people who want to create closed species, and they are protective of thier creative species. I hope one day people will be interested in my story to create persona with these species and respected the orgins of them(Like leaving all special characteristic, but still create unique character) In other hand I do also understand consumers, that dont want to pay like $45 for species that just look like wolf with special kind of pattern of fur and some people called a closed species. Thats not a closed spieces if nothing is differnt from typical wolf other than fur pattern. But what it will be actual closed species are Cotton Tails from MLP Fandom. These ponies were mutated to have venus trap as thier tails(But it could vary from venus trap to griffidor heads or even a dragon head, but it was depended on rarity of species. There are even kinds like galaxy ones or jelly one. But they still have same rule, which was have cotton like fur around the head at the end of tail) and always it was covered with cotton like fur around the venus trap head. Anything elso could be customized, like colours, themes and more. I remeber some drama on Polish Deviantart about this spieces, because some girl made emo/goth pony with this spiecies but....She didnt have license to create that character with that species and she already created a whole story from start to finish with her(Like she even created eldery years for that character too) and everyone was like "Yo! You know its a closed spiecies? Did you pay for that?". So, she left the Devianart after that incident.

[@SpinallC0rd]

Only reason I despised closed species is mostly bc of sum owners of these, species, the blacklist bs, and how many ppl got attacked bc their character was similar or jus' had 1 lil thing in common.

[@rodney2746]

its funny that you put charmies on the screen when you were explaining closed species when they've been open for a while (this isn't bashing just want to point that out)