In-depth Drum Overheads Tutorial - Mellow Cymbals and Punchy Drums

This tutorial took a different turn when I realized how a small change in the overheads can affect the punchiness of the kick and snare.
For more on the Soyuz 017 Tube in this video, visit soyuzmicrophon...
Overheads Made Easy is my in-depth course on drum overheads, and it's a great way to learn the foundations of a fantastic drum sound. www.creativeso...
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Ribbon Mics:
AEA R88 - My standard (Stereo) drum overhead - It’s almost like cheating for drum recording amzn.to/2ERcrcT
AEA N8 - Easy to use, and works on just about anything - amzn.to/2HSEH0o
AEA N22 - Fantastic close mic that doesn’t get muddy - amzn.to/2WmHKqv
Tom mics:
CAD m179 amzn.to/2IhUUvj
Audix D4 amzn.to/2JV3N0V
Kick and Bass Cab Mic:
RE20 amzn.to/312S3ip
M88 amzn.to/2JXN7WL
Snare drum mic:
Audix i5 amzn.to/2IgAdzQ
Shure SM57 amzn.to/2WKvtvw
Preamps:
Warm Audio WA-412 amzn.to/2IiBN4b
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Studio Monitors:
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Recommended “First Mic for Any Studio”:
Shure SM7B amzn.to/2JYfAeP
Use with the SM7B for a higher-end sound amzn.to/2KrFKpU
Vocal Mic - Soyuz 017 amzn.to/2ER9Gbs
Large Diaphragm Condenser - Soyuz 023 amzn.to/2ERo5Ex
Small Diaphragm Condensers - Soyuz 013 amzn.to/2JXjKDM
Nice and QUIET fan for the studio - amzn.to/2JVv1ok

[@creativesoundlab]

Free Download for All 8 Years of CSL Downloads and PDF guides: www.creativesoundlab.tv/alldownloads

[@celestiale6877]

Cymbals? Aww damn, just spent the whole vid listening to that sweet cracking snare

[@chuckkirkpatrick6712]

Screw all this mic stuff. I'm gonna loop your groove and play along with it. Man, you are the pocket.

[@halcyo]

In depth, interesting, and well produced, as usual. Your videos are a great example of how to do audio tutorial type stuff on youtube.

[@c03x157]

my favorite production educational channel

[@3danR]

Thanks for everything you've taught me

[@djentlover]

This is one of your most eye opening videos. Thank you so much! I will never mic my cymbals how I used to.

[@3danR]

Thank you so much for this excellent video. Barely anyone talks about where sound radiates from cymbals in this context and how it affects the stereo image. I work in live sound and have never been happy with my cymbal sound, watching this has been a real eureka moment for me.

[@randbradbury]

Love the video, it's super important for people to understand how overheads work and I appreciate you taking the time to make this.

[@BadChizzle]

Love that kit! Often my ear is not refined enough to all inclusively hear and understand your points being made. I’ve found this to be true with many subjects you cover on your channel. Which believe me, is frustrating on my end. Yet... at the same time, I get enjoyment from other aspects, such as the obviously amazing microphones you’re using... and this Drum Kit, which is, in my opinion, just a thing of beauty! It should be said that I completely trust your knowledge and experience when it comes to recording anything, so I can just kick back and enjoy the ride in my own way... and glean what I can, as I chill and have fun, while getting inspiration here and there. Thanks...

[@emilly.aguirre]

Amazing. I'm composing my next EP and i will record real drums for the first time, this kind of videos are super helpful because it help me to know how to achieve this kind of sound

[@magoostus]

A great video demonstrating that mic position is more important than the mic brand/model

[@SupraphonicsSurfCombo]

Very helpful. I do let the close mics carry some load so I like, and have already been doing overheads more over the cymbals, and even doing some low cut to focus on them.... to focus on the sheen. (And great beat and feel on your playing... MOST important thing).

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah the feel is everything.

[@regalbeaglestudios]

Wow, I always assumed over the cymbals would just give me more cymbals, i never would have guessed it would be tighter. I'm setting this test up in my room right now to see how it sounds for me! Great episode!

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks so much! Really glad to hear you got something from this!

[@weeschwee]

I tend to put my overheads above the edge of my cymbals. It's probably due to trying to balance multiple cymbals with one mic. I think currently my overheads are a bit low so I'm I'm getting more cymbals and a tighter sound. I liked the first example in your video as I thought the cymbals sounded their best, but I see what you mean how the second example is tighter. Thanks for doing this experiment! It was really great to be able to the difference of overhead placement.

[@Eurodrummer666]

I recently recorded my band´s album with the overhead mics actually UNDER the crash cymbals, also capturing ride, hhat, splashes. I wasn ´t totally satisfied, but the result is interesting.

[@ribbyT408]

Looked up the price tag on those Soyuz after the video.. gulp. Great video!

[@aaronrochotte6342]

For most situations, I prefer position 2! In a minimal mic setup, 1 would work great!

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah totally!

[@isaacmccready8388]

This is SO helpful, Ryan. And right on time before I go record my bands EP in November. I love the separation and increased control over the cymbals vs drums that you get when the overheads are placed above the cymbals.

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks and don’t forget just going low with your overheads. Then you use less of them and more close mics.

[@EasyWheelin]

Always love the content. Thank you for what you do! Your videos are so helpful and always inspire me to get into the studio and experiment. Cheers.

[@jeffblack5316]

Awesome tip! I'm using Rode NT5 and they can get really shrill if you don't know what you're doing (and believe me, I don't!) so I'm stoked to try this technique out. Thanks a million!

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah good point. For those, I usually would do a high shelf starting at 1k and very gently take down the high end. Even as much as 6-8 dB at 10k just to make those mics warmer like I’m used to.

[@ThomMillsDrums]

Nice one, setting up some overheads today so gonna try these ideas out

[@jacobbuxton932]

Very informative video, I always wondered why I’d get a mellow sound even when I’d place the mic’d right over the cymbal.

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks Jacob! Yeah it’s such a good trick for cymbals.

[@jhowellkc]

Great as usual Ryan. Thanks! I struggle getting a good balance of drums and cymbals, but I also like using the fewest mics possible. This is really helpful!

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks J and I hope you get some great drum sounds next time.

[@yubarecordingstudio7578]

That high end almost phasey thing in adjacent mike is interesting - good stuff!

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks!

[@AudioScapeEngineeringCo]

AMAZINGLY informative and creative vid as always, Ryan!

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks Charlie!

[@AudioScapeEngineeringCo]

@@creativesoundlab Always man!!!

[@peterpetrek1654]

Thanks for the tip I will try it next time. I liked the first example (mics furher away) a lot more than the second one. Cool video!

[@creativesoundlab]

Nice! Yeah I always like a high overhead personally but I’m coming from a drummers perspective on getting a natural sound or relying on those OH more.

[@peterpetrek1654]

Creative Sound Lab Yeah Im used to putting the overheads over the cymbals but as I said I just really want to try the new position see how it sits in a mix

[@BNLNRD]

Great technique to have the drums sit further back in the mix I imagine

[@creativesoundlab]

Yep we can starting the mixing with the mic placement.

[@audiobunny1767]

Excellent Video! T H A N K Y O U! Taught me so much and in soon little time. God Bless!

[@calebknott8021]

I notice you had the Analog option turned off on the CLA-76. I started turning this off as well in recent time, as I noticed the extra distortion seemed to make my cymbals harsher, and this made it difficult to add shine or air to the cymbals without getting irritating. I learned to stop saturating and over compressing my overhead tracks!

[@creativesoundlab]

Interesting! I haven’t used it a ton but I’ll listen for that when I pull it up next time.

[@calebknott8021]

@@creativesoundlab it's easy to go waves crazy with multiple vintage emulating plugins on a source. A Scheps 73, a cla76, and then the ssl channel strip on the drum bus. Every once in a while, a Kramer Tape machine. Just too much saturation!

[@almightytreegod]

It kind of seems like 1 is brighter and 2 is darker overall, yet the ride still seems pretty prominent in the mix. I wonder if the acoustics in the room might play a pretty big role in that. If a cymbal is obscuring line of sight to the snare, therefore getting more reflections on the high end than the direct sound. I’m new to this, mostly just thinking out loud... it’s very interesting, tho. Thanks for the video!

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah there is some truth to what you are saying. A lot of times the cymbals can sound bad because of too many reflections in the room. We also see the snare get blocked by a low room mic out to the drummers right side.

[@pedroahets]

Great video as allways!!!! Thanks!

[@boobo3763]

Great video. Definitely appreciated!!

[@firmansaragi498]

Damn this is the best. I like the shells sounds, ride with the 2nd position, but dislike how the crash sounds. I like the sound of the crash in the 1st position. Now I'm confuse lol. Probably the 2nd position the crash has more weight(low to low mid) bcs its closer to the cymbals. I wonder will high pass filter and compression will make the crash sounds more like the 1st position.

[@lifesglorydead]

Awesome video as always

[@PaulyStax]

Nice info on the mellowness. I like those mics !

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah they are real nice

[@tonyadams6985]

Thanks! Very interesting.

[@Groovedrummer1989]

Very great and useful video. I totally enjoy your content! Please keep going :-)

[@JulianFernandez]

thanks! 50k around the corner. kudos!

[@allmetaliswelcome]

I've been championing overheads farther away from the cymbals since that video you made years ago on cymbal mic placement. More confirmation here!

[@creativesoundlab]

Nice! I’m not sure the issue that I was addressing in the video but I’m glad that your moving mics and getting the sounds you want.

[@MrBass89]

thank you so much for the knowledge!!!

[@DavidMorley]

Brilliant!

[@robertopistolesi2735]

Thanks for these amazing videos. Can I ask what could be the equivalent advice on the use of two overhead stereo ribbon mics? And, I am a jazz drummer, so I've got to think to a totally different balance. Thanks for any help!!!

[@DrSamE]

How long you’ve been drumming? I guess you were drumming before you became an audio engineer? Great video as always, cheers!

[@creativesoundlab]

1997. Started engineering in 2005

[@ronniekonig6779]

Good video!

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks Ronnie!

[@cravenmorehead7610]

great video! If im using pencil style overheads will the angle that they are on matter? , ideally i have them hanging vertical one above the snare and one above the ride area, they are audix adx51, wondering if I should be angling them?

[@Mio-fu1sr]

the signal or the sound dont have enough time to develop because the mic is to close,as the vibration of the cymbal develops the other mic caches it,that's why the shine of the cymbal is in the other mic

[@bertswiderski2351]

Great Video, are the microphones the same height? or measured off the snare?

[@jmoerd]

Hey, Ryan. I noticed you mix the drums in Drummer's perspective, but the videos are in audience perspective. So, we see the ride on the left, but we hear it on the right. Maybe put the camera over your shoulder or swap the panning to match the video perspective?

[@JacoboCastroCristo]

Hello, Some months ago I watched one of your videos talking about how to check for phase issues and flipping the polarity in the mix for drums but I can't find it anywhere. How can I find it? Thank your.

[@manuellujan5625]

Following as well. Lol can't find the phase in Logic

[@timothystephen6147]

I've not seen it covered in any videos, but how do you deal with hybrid kits, acoustic kits with digital pads-as opposed to kits with triggers. Do you record it with the pad going through an amp in the room so it ends up in the overheads? Stereo amps so it pans as programmed? Or is it straight into the DAW with the drummer listening through headphones?

[@davelaird2477]

Hi Ryan, helpful video! Two things: Are the Soyuz 017’s their Tube or FET versions? In the second mic position over top of cymbals if you go up higher (if the room allows...) would you regain a little more drum in the balance? Thanks!

[@creativesoundlab]

Tube and yes going up means that there’s not an extreme volume difference. Think of a low overhead may be 2 ft from cymbals and 3ft from the toms. 50% more cyms than toms. Go up to a high overhead and those numbers change to 5ft and 6ft. So it gets closer to a 1:1 ratio which is half and half.

[@richardaling5278]

Okay, that's one way. There's more to wonder... I'm sitting on my attic under the roof 35 degrees. I believe there are 16 microphones i drum with. Due to the roof and so hight my overheads are let's say 15cm over the main crashes 16 and 18 HHX Evolution. Now there's a big difference in how the cymbals are projecting towards the overheads. It's obvious that the cymbals vibrate/project more at the side than in the centre. It is rather stupid to point the mics at the centre therefore i think. The vibrating amplitude just won't project project direct above. Here's the trick: Lower the crashes and angle them away from the direction of the overheads. The'll open up and the whole mix will be brighter. There's one more thing i'm not aware of in this case: I use Beyerdynamic tg d58 condenser racktom-mics and i believe they're more coproductive in my setting than dynamic angled mics... There's ofcourse a reason why my 18 ozone and 14 mini-china (first on the right of my 18 crash) sound louder while they are much further away from my right-overhead and i can't angle them;)

[@creativesoundlab]

Using an angle is a cool trick. Most of the time I'm dealing with cymbals being too bright, not too dark. I think most are if they have cheap condenser mics. For some sources you want to enhance the sound, and others you try to balance it out. Kick drum, toms, are a good example of things you want to sound bigger than real life. But for something bright that kills your ears, I go to balance it with a dark mic.

[@Nivej8180]

I'd like to see a video of hi hat bashing.I wonder if turning the left overhead inward would make the hat not as relevant. Position 1 reminds me of something similar to George Massenberg.

[@EC-jm3vn]

You should attempted to make your own ribbon mic!

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah I will soon I’m sure

[@AdamRainStopper]

I wish I could just bus you up here to set up my overheads, and then I would just to leave them in the exact same position forever.

[@georgemickel6608]

Hey Ryan.. what if any gain (any reduction) did you have the recording set to?

[@bonzology322]

to me it wasn't even close, the #1 sample sounded more like a natural drum set to me, the phase shift on sample #2 made the close mic'd snare kick sound incongruent, i should also add that cymbals are supposed to add excitement, those particular k cymbals and the #2 mic placement makes them sound dark and sleepy, the brightness of #1 is much more conducive to getting your attention, if everything is warm then nothing is warm theory of orchestration

[@iamjiroe]

yes this is something I noticed.. the snare sounds strange with the full mics on #2... I wonder if after correcting manually or w sound radix it would sound better?

[@boobo3763]

Would it be a bad idea to take this as a cymbal reference track?? Haha! Seriously...

[@tommyaudio]

more crashes were hit in position 2 during the making of this video ;p