In Too Deep Review - with Mike DiLisio

[@marcosfernandesdesousajuni9576]

Honestly I don't know why so few companies give us acrylic standees, they look incredible and are so much more durable than cardboard ones, I'd take acrylic standees instead of unpainted minis every single time!

[@rb4551]

yah i wish they had 2 options. in some cases id take minis in most cases id take standees

[@soogymoogi]

There's a KS I backed that had acrylic standees as the stretch goal and allowed backers to add on 3d printable files for minis, I think that was a pretty good compromise

[@marcosfernandesdesousajuni9576]

@@soogymoogi Indeed! That should be the standard really cause I'm willing to bet a vast minority actually get to paint the minis and unpainted minis rarely feel that great to use and they do add to the price!

[@boredboardgamerkramer3838]

Same

[@soogymoogi]

@@marcosfernandesdesousajuni9576 Yeah, while I love painting minis, having an alternative until I'm finished with them is a great option!

[@spot7006]

I backed this and am so glad I did. I've played it multiplayer and solo and enjoyed all my plays. When I teach it I talk about the evidence first and what it will look like at the end of the game so that players (somewhat) understand what the long term goals are. Then I talk about the available actions used to gather the evidence and get there. As Mike said in the review, there is a possibility of having a 'dead' turn or 2 where you can't accomplish any crimes. That can feel a little disheartening but those turns are rare & can happen to any of the players so it doesn't seem too punishing or unbalanced. If that type of thing is worrisome to you, the solo game is just as fun & those dead turns become a non-issue.

[@christianorton7486]

This has become my #1 favorite game of all-time. You're right, on the first play, you're kind of fuzzy on everything. The mechanics are easy to understand and remember, the rules pretty simple, but how it all comes together is fuzzy. And then it all coalesces. Which is really satisfying when that happens. The ever-changing board is incredibly thematic to me. You feel like you're chasing these criminals and trying to tie them down. So your opponent's turn(s) provide this amazing drama. Will they help you inadvertently with their actions, setting you up for completing several cards? Or will they foil everything you tried to work up to? It's just an amazing experience for me. One I've not tired of in the least. I tend to love games that I'll never have to check the rulebook after one play, and this one is certainly that way. The iconography is on point.

[@Bleuchz]

Soooo close to pulling the trigger on this and you're not helping :P Do you happen to have the non-deluxe and if so can you confirm it has the solo mode? For some reason burnt island only lists the solo mode for their deluxe edition :/

[@christianorton7486]

@@Bleuchz I have the deluxe, sorry

[@thedicetower]

@@Bleuchz the solo components came included in the standard review copy we received.

[@Bleuchz]

@@thedicetower Thanks! Now I just have to debate how much I'm going to regret not getting the deluxe components haha

[@Castorshells]

I agree. The more I play this game the more I like it. I got this about a month or so ago. It took a couple plays to click but it all comes together. I encourage everyone to give it a try. I love the spatial puzzle it provides with all the thinky decisions. You got your basic actions, plus possible abilities on criminals, plus possible bonus tiles (abilities) you've collected plus location powers that manipulate as well, it's all very satisfying. Great review. P.S. I painted my minis and they look great. Came out a little tacky but I do love color.

[@joseg.6187]

Your review format is great! Thanks. I backed this and it looks great.

[@rawkyle9385]

Completely agree about the end game scoring. I played a two hand “solo” game against myself and had no idea how it would end and who would win until it was all over. Great game though, really looking forward to getting it to the table again.

[@rolfvansoelen8916]

Played this game yesterday for the first time (3-player game) and man, what a blast that was ! I agree 100% with all the points that Mike mentions. This puzzle that you get each turn is so much fun to solve, especcialy when you have those ‘wait a minute, what if ..?’ moments. This game has the ‘I love it when a plan comes together’ effect in spades ! The mechanics are so cleverly designed, it really amazes me. This is not a game for casual gamers, it requires a lot of concentration, and the mentality to ‘figure stuff out’. It requires a lot of ‘getting it all together’ in your head, but man, it is so statisfying when you come up with a solution for your problem! This is also not a game for people who hate to see their plans being screwed up. If you hate ‘NOOOO, WHY DID YOU DO THAT... MAN...’ , then this is not your game. But our gaming group loves that, and we had so many table laughs, because of (often not intentionally) ruining another player’s plans. You screw others, and you will be screwed yourself just as much. That maybe frustrating the first half hour, but when you accept that this is an important part of the game, it is just so much fun! It is a lot of take that, yes, but not in a mean way because you have no clue on what the other players have to accomplish. For me, this game would also be an 8.5, maybe a 9. Yes, I played it only once, but I feel the potential of this game, and the variability in set up makes that no turn (read: puzzle) will ever feel the same. I can’t wait to play it again. To the designers: thanks a lot for making such a fun game!

[@pikkdogs]

Was dissapointed that this wasn't Mike reviewing Sum 41 songs! Can this be a stretch goal in the kickstarter? I would love to know what he thinks of the lady who gets her head shaved in the video.

[@moewolf5195]

Your risking quite the fat lip, why are you talking about this hell song. Are you still waiting for the game? No reason to continue this, I'm in over my head.

[@pikkdogs]

@@moewolf5195 Open Your Eyes, I'm in Too Deep, Thanks For Nothing. So Long Goodbye

[@chaosinthechasm]

I have really enjoyed my plays of this so far. I've only played 2 player - twice 2 handed, and once with a friend I taught. The game isn't the easiest teach but it isn't bad, also there is a fair bit of administration but it's not excessive by any stretch of the imagination. I find riding that long-term strategy line in such a way your opponent isn't sure if you're trying to foil the plot or not, and then having a new one or two thematic board-state puzzles to put together every turn or two is super satisfying! I personally feel the theme is very strong in this and really makes it a satisfying experience to me. So far, the only gripe I have is the flavor text on the cards, which is important to read to bring out that theme, is pretty dark and can be difficult to read in low lighting. Also, since I haven't played at more than two players, I do wonder if the hidden evidence information in the plot area will be problematic and frustrating at higher player counts. Mike, I'm really glad you reviewed this game and I'm happy you like it. I would really like to learn what other Dice Tower Crew think about it as well. Cheers! Edit: I see some people saying the rulebook isn't written very well. I completely disagree. I think it's a very well written and organized rulebook.

[@onimartinez8646]

Hi! Mike, I'm on the fence on getting this, purely solo, if ever. Have you tried it solo, and how is it? I like puzzle/strategy/tactic as my top game are Mage Knight and Spirit Island.

[@BbBb-zx6sx]

My only complaint with the rules was terminology. The words used were thematic. A glossary of game terms to common words would have been nice. The player board is a good example. A good explanation of round tactics vs game stategy.

[@marcosfernandesdesousajuni9576]

I wanted to back this but not sure if they didn't ship to my country or if the price was insanely high, both of which happens a lot these days...

[@soogymoogi]

I'm honestly a bit confused by the theme of this. You're mind controlling criminals to make them commit crimes to stop them from committing crimes? Is this based on a movie or type of movie I'm not familiar with? Cause otherwise this seems like a convoluted anime plot, lol The art direction is lovely, but I think I'd have to play this one to decide how I felt about it. Certainly seems interesting though

[@patrickdolan9933]

The criminals are already committing crimes. They are working for a global crime organization known as The Syndicate, which is trying to take over New Dawn City. Standing against them are the players, members of The Agency, a secret organization trying to stop the Syndicate using experimental technology. The catch is that they are so secret that everything they do is "off the books", and borderline illegal. Essentially, the players are aiding and abetting the criminals by tapping into their minds, influencing their actions, and setting things up to help them commit crimes, in hopes of gathering enough evidence to shut down the Syndicate. At the same time, players are trying to gain as much Intel (Victory Points) as they can, while avoiding taking too many Dilemma Cards (potential Corruption and/or Victory Points). Critically - The actions that gain a player the most Intel are also the actions that gain them the most Dilemma cards. At the end of the game, everything is totaled up. One (or more) players will have the most Corruption and are "In Too Deep", while one (or more) will have the most Intel. If the Syndicate was defeated, whoever has the most Intel wins, and is promoted to run the Agency. If the Syndicate was NOT defeated, whoever went In Too Deep wins, by joining the Syndicate.

[@maxv658]

Awesome review! I stumbled across this game a couple weeks ago and have been debating pulling the trigger on picking it up or not. I LOVE the theme, art and overall aesthetic. It's right up my alley and this review makes me believe I would really enjoy the gameplay too. Anyone know how it plays solo? That was another thing that initially drew me to it and I'm curious how well it plays solo. I'll be picking this up regardless, but if it's just as awesome solo that makes it that much better to me.

[@Tgaxgriffen]

I really want to try this just becuase of that theme. It seems so unique and evocative.

[@lukeaitken384]

Played a few 2 player games and then did a 5 player one, both played very different and was a lot harder to get things set up but was so much sweeter when it paid off.

[@rhodesn7bgg716]

So glad to see you did a video for this one! I recently acquired a copy and there wasn't a lot of good sources for understanding how the game worked. This was one of the easier to follow explanations. Excited to see you rate it an 8.5, since I took kind of a gamble on acquiring a copy. Looks like I made a good choice!

[@JoachimErdtman]

Perhaps I missed it, but what are your thoughts on it as a solitaire game?

[@thedicetower]

I'm planning to record a separate solo review for the game in the future.

[@JoachimErdtman]

@@thedicetower splendid!

[@BbBb-zx6sx]

It's a competitive game. Not sure you'd enjoy it solo.

[@jonhollandjazz]

This is one of the most complicated "how the game works" descriptions I've seen...

[@williamgarcia-medina9989]

So weird, I just bought this game yesterday.

[@MrTravolta7]

Glad i backed this game 🥳🤗🙏

[@82ndmi]

the game is weird, it felt bad when I played to see people completing missions, I often couldn't and they often could just out of luck in a mulitplayer game. But then I won my first game just exploiting how the end game scoring actually works. So I had no fun, it felt bad, but knowing how to manipulate the complex end game can pull off a win even if you aren't completing objectives every turn. not my game though, I want to do the fun bits and solve the puzzle, not be playing a meta manipulation game that sneaks the win in the background, and if everyone got good at the end game, I'm not sure I'd like it still. probably even less.

[@bwah9481]

No mention of solo play here Mike!?

[@michaeldilisio557]

I’m planning a separate solo review in the future.

[@ununun]

A complex starting premise which is a big turn off for me. In a relationship, it's healthier to start nice and simple with a clear vista, then ease one's way into the layers. This feels like a grenade in my face. Incidentally I've been looking into obtaining a cyberpunk boardgame for years with top spec solo options, but still nothing is hitting the spot, or looks great though hamstrung by a poorly-written rulebook.

[@gs24-xor]

Mike you are wrong!!! But on a minor detail, the KS edition contains a mini expansion. Aside from that its the same content

[@michaeldilisio557]

Ah, yes, that is correct. Thanks for the reminder!

[@mabos555]

Yay for standees in games boo for minis Why the hell any retail game don't have standees and a standard anyway? Marvel United for example should be with stabsess and this it will lower the prices a lot

[@mabos555]

So anyway this game is marvel united the euro version with the hacking theme 🤷

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

I'd have to play it first.

[@BbBb-zx6sx]

I THINK it's on TTS.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

@@BbBb-zx6sx - Cool. I'll check, thanks.

[@madquest8]

Way too complex, hard pass.