Independent Fact Checking, the Ishi-108 | Fake Tank Friday

[@ConeOfArc]

I have submitted an order to get a copy of the original file the Ishi-108 document came from so once I get that I will add any information I gain from it here since there does seem to be more in it that I do not have available. That being said the vehicle is still a fake and I hope mentions of it can be corrected to portray it as such to prevent it from becoming a bigger myth. EDIT #1: Apparently a revised version of the book including the Ishi-108 was published earlier this year. The cover doesn't mention it as a revised edition so I didn't see that during the writing of this video.

[@bjboss1119]

It looks more like a description of the Independent than a new design tbh

[@fakshen1973]

In the USA, we give Russian heavy weapons American names that have nothing to do with the actual Russian names. I wonder if you looked in the intelligence archives, if you can find inaccurate military drawings of Japenese heavy weapons submitted in an intelligence report (circa 1919-1941).

[@__Random_user_]

Did you know that Wot blitz has this tank? It's called mitsu-108 there but I think it's the same tank

[@troygroomes104]

actually it is the pre prototype of Japan's last ditch super heavy defense tank that would have faced the m4, m24, T26 and other allied tanks had the allies invaded japan

[@HarverTheSlayer]

@@__Random_user_ Actually not, it's worse than that: it's a mix between Ishi-108 and Mitsu-104, a design for a heavy tank that might or might not have reached the prototype phase. WG basically went and combined both designs, for some absurd reason.

[@admiraltiberius1989]

Some fake tanks are fun to think about, others are absolutely ridiculous. Some are both. Most of the Japanese heavies fall into that 3rd category.

[@scoutguard3015]

Japanese heavy tanks are pretty cool and unique but also kinda stupid

[@14yearold85]

​@@scoutguard3015 yeah they big asf which is awesome lol

[@greener2497]

@@14yearold85 Oho is the coolest one to me, looks so wack

[@Roskow]

@@greener2497 Oho doesn't have any historical basis. It's a complete fabrication by wargaming sadly

[@admiraltiberius1989]

@@Roskow shame cause I love Godzilla

[@samwill7259]

It's incredible to me that we can just...lose track of which massive metallic weapons of war did or did not exist in a conflict less than a century ago when mass produced cameras already existed.

[@countdoggo5026]

the US did lose track of a super heavy tank behind a bush for 27 years, so it's not out of the scope of reality

[@MrArgus11111]

Things that seem monumentally important during wartime to everyone can become humdrum immediately post-war and then forgotten a few decades on. If that.

[@tonedeaftachankagaming457]

It’s always mind boggling exactly how big history is… and how much still is lost from it forever.

[@WingMaster562]

I know were talking about tanks, but Broken Arrow, where a bunch of nuke missiles are "missing" to this very day.

[@chaotixthefox]

I mean the cameras were shit and you couldn't strap one to a helmet and walk around getting footage. Records destroyed or hidden, etc.

[@JP-dz5oj]

Fun fact: this tank has also been introduced to WoT Blitz as the Tier 5 tank of their new HT branch, or it kind of has. The tier 5 appears to be a gross combination of the Ishi-108 and the Mistu-104, the latter of which was a legitimate design based on what I can find, and this hybrid tank had allegedly been in development until the 1940's when it was deemed too heavy, which is ironic considering the existence O-I program. Honestly this fakeness helps it fit in perfect with the new heavy branch which is almost entirely made of fakes, half of which are "What if the Japanese made their own Tiger tank?" and the other half are "What if this MBT was a heavy tank?". Edit: I forgot the Chi-Se was an actual tank project, so that makes it the only vehicle in the entire Wot Blitz Japanese heavy branch that isn't completely fabricated.

[@munkhazaya29]

I hate the Mitsu-108 so much the gun depression is absolute trash and it’s so long so it’s impossible to turn around in some parts of the map and the Ju-Nu is annoying to fight against even in a SU-100 with the 122mm cannon but only a single part in the bottom of the hull is able to be penetrated and the turret if the guy is fighting somewhere else and if the Ju-Nu player is smart they hide their hull

[@dahen7517]

@@munkhazaya29 the 108 is essentially a Tog at tier 5 but everything is shit except the turret armour

[@iatsd]

You do realise that the whole "O-I programme" thing is utterly fake, right? The entire line from WG is simply BS. Japan has a strong cottage industry of producing fake historical documents and artifacts. Everything to do with the O-I is in that category. There's a *reason* that official Japanese records have exactly NOTHING about anything called the O-I.

[@dahen7517]

@@iatsd I mean didn’t the Japanese burn most of their records a short while before the war ended and they signed the surrender? My memory is a bit hazy on that but it’s quite likely that at the least, the O-I itself was an idea the Japanese were thinking of toying with. The rest of the line is most likely if not certainly made up by WG to fill in the gaps. I’m not going to deny that Japan has a whole slew of intentionally faked things lying around since that’s not something I know much about but I can be fairly confident that the O-I was a weapon that the Japanese were going to (,for whatever odd reason,) create. It’s not impossible that it did exist (at least on paper) , but yes it’s not exactly very likely either.

[@iatsd]

@@dahen7517 There were certainly records that were destroyed, but it was never a policy or, in typical Japanese fashion, carried out well. Those that were destroyed intentionally were mostly in China and Korea, not in Japan itself. Records destroyed in Japan proper were largely at the hands of Allied air raids. That said, the vast majority of records survived the war. They're (mostly) available from the Japanese Government Archives today, if you know who and how to ask for them. As I said, there are people that have looked into it and there's no record *AT ALL* of the O-I in official documents - no orders, no commentary, no plans, not even simple admin documents or company correspondence related to it or the people or companies or material supposedly related to it. That is a remarkable lack of paperwork given we have paperwork of one sort or another for all the known/proven Japanese armoured vehicles. The rational conclusion - especially given Japans habit of fakery - is to conclude that it simply wasn't real and is a fake tank.

[@michaelhowell2326]

I absolutely love the Independent. It starts to use "modern" technology that would be used in WWII on a First World War chassis.

[@colbeausabre8842]

Try commanding 5 turrets at once ANd a flamethrower.

[@Mustache_Sam]

The top right text at 3:56 "第一九一圖" means "Image No. 191" or "191th image". I suppose it is a just a simple sketch from a document about foreign tanks collected by Japanese army. Saying such as a blue print is laughable.

[@MrArgus11111]

It would be interesting to ask the curator of Bovington, who is on KZbin quite a bit, to sit down and talk about all of this. He sounds like a standup guy and I wonder what his thoughts are on this incident and what they have done and can do to prevent anything like it happening again. I wouldn't want to embarrass them or anything, but I think it would be fascinating.

[@Tuck-Shop]

A perfect excuse to visit Bovington.

[@captiannemo1587]

The curator doesn’t know that kind of information

[@MrArgus11111]

@@captiannemo1587 How would you know this? He seems pretty hands on with what they have on display and even what they don't have on display. If he doesn't know off the top of his head, he can ask anyone at Bovington who does... I think you're vastly underrating what he knows or could easily come to know.

[@captiannemo1587]

@@MrArgus11111 Easy the Tank Chats videos gets piles of things incorrect despite having the archives right there for checking. Nobody fact checks before they do their videos... ever.

[@deezboyeed6764]

@@captiannemo1587 proof. Not that i dont believe you, I've seen their curators get soemthings in the anti tank chat wrong.

[@builder396]

My guess is that the mistake of 37mm guns in the frontal turret was due to the Vickers MGs having the large cooling jackets due to being water-cooled, and thus it looked much closer to a small cannon, possibly even the French SA18 or a derivative thereof, and someone got fooled.

[@KuK137]

If he can't see the 'cannon' has suspiciously small hole and ridiculously thick 'gun walls' then he is crap researcher to begin with...

[@highmoonlookdownawe]

So this is what WG get the ideas for Mitsu 108.

[@luthfinst3023]

probably. i also hope coneofarc also covers the new wotb japanese heavy line tanks

[@toshimikazuki9913]

@@luthfinst3023 it’s a paper tank made by wg but we can hope the he might cover the WG Japanese heavy tanks

[@thenumbah1birdman]

@@luthfinst3023 Literally almost 100% bullshit apart from maybe the Chi-se, and that's a tenuous maybe

[@nf1nk]

A really interesting thing in the drawing is that the top view of the tank is reversed left to right from the side view. This would indicate that the drawing is traced rather than being drafted from the view above as it prevents construction lines being used in the drafting process.

[@Chobittsu]

MaiWaffentrager...... now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Last I saw of them they were trying to claim that they were a "representative of a Japanese tank museum", when none exist, and an employee of the Japanese National Archive, while also claiming to be of Korean heritage. Due to the sensitive nature of documents regarding Korea in the archive, the Japanese archive does not hire korean-heritage employees. On the World of Warships forums they tried to claim that the battleship Mikasa was based on an obscure Russian design, which we refuted in minutes. There was also that time they claimed to be part middle-eastern from a people fighting ISIL, then that time they claimed to be living in Boston at the time of that bombing... while also claiming to be living in eastern Ukraine during the the initial Donetsk uprising stuff in the 2010s... and they even claimed once to be dying of cancer... MaiWaffentrager's only goal is attention, which they can easily get through faking Japanese tank history as its very obscure and difficult to research.

[@burningphoneix]

It's been years since I've been on the forums, but wasn't she the one who helped Wargaming with research into designing the Japanese tech tree in WoT?

[@Chobittsu]

@@burningphoneix they've claimed to be the key assistant in a lot of stuff involving Japanese armour, Including War Thunder and Armoured Warfare. Them claiming to have worked on WoT is a straight up lie.

[@alexdemoya2119]

I think Mai was in the online tank encyclopedia discord. contentious person to say the least.

[@JONNYGABRIEL18]

She faked her disease? Afaik she stopped posting on her blog

[@SoloWing88]

I know it's not your cup of tea, but I do remember people trying to push a "YF-25" fighter, first using production images from the movie stealth, then later by using the blueprint style wallpaper of the x-02 from ace combat. And all this in the early 00's

[@MrArgus11111]

There is a very well done "this looks like a legit bedroom poster" diagram of the Firefox from... well the movie "Firefox" with Clint Eastwood that has also likely been posted somewhere as legit and believed by someone. If I hadn't seen the movie and I was 12 I might buy it.

[@wolf_7479]

5:34 tfw I actually own this book and for a while bought into the myth of undiscovered japanese heavy tanks (the book doesn't just feature the Ishi 108 but also some others) Thankfully one of my fellow researchers educated me on this a year ago

[@ConeOfArc]

Not sure about the other info in the book but I'm sure overall it's fine. There's just a few standout examples that should have been omitted. Tends to happen with any of those "forgotten tank" sorts of books.

[@wolf_7479]

@@ConeOfArc the other Japanese heavies in the book are pretty much fake as well, either products of Japanese counter-intelligence or misinterpreted documents, to quote my researcher friend "The only heavies Japan ever developed were Type 87, Type 91, Type 95 and O-I". Can't comment on the British tanks from the book tho.

[@iatsd]

@@wolf_7479 The O-I DID NOT EXIST. It's fake. Japan has a strong history of people creating fake documents and artifacts and then selling them. The O-I falls into that category. There is NO official record of anything like the O-I programme ever existing. EVERYTHING "after" the O-I in WoT is utterly fake and just invented wholesale by WG.

[@thenumbah1birdman]

@@wolf_7479 Any idea of what that supposed photo of the Ai-96/Type 97 (can't remember) is supposed to show if not one of those vehicles? It does seem very large and dumpy compared to a Ha-Go or Chi-Ha.

[@wolf_7479]

@@thenumbah1birdman most likely counterintelligence, sadly simple as that, purposely misleading image made by the japanese. Might also just be a doctored image someone made post war. Oh also that guy Waffentrager mentioned in this video is also responsible for fueling the fake Ai-96 myth.

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

Before i even clicked this video i knew Mai_Waffentrager was involved somehow.

[@dakufaust]

Wargaming does not care for your "myth busting"

[@aregulargenericname8794]

Because they aren't calling themselfs historicly accurate

[@jeremiahshum]

Oh a tank I can play in world of tank blitz lol

[@focku]

Mitsu 108 tier v Japanese heavy

[@admiraltiberius1989]

Its kinda fun for what it is

[@Toreno17]

I was curious if during your research on Japanese tanks if you had ever come across information regarding the Panzer III's delivered to Japan? They were supposed to have been delivered via surface blockade runner in 1943, possibly "Osorno" or "Alsterufer", but beyond that their seems to be no information regarding them, Japanese opinions of them or their eventual fate.

[@calessel3139]

I believe the Germans were to deliver a few examples of their tank designs, including the Tiger. However, according to the Germans, the tanks were never sent to Japan due to obvious difficulties shipping them.

[@Toreno17]

@@calessel3139 As far as I'm aware Japan brought 4 tanks, 1 Tiger, 1 Panther, 1 Panzer III with long 50mm and 1 Panzer III with short 75mm. However the purchases of the Panzer III's were made prior to March 1943 while the Tiger and Panther were brought in September 1943, after surface blockade running to Japan had ended (surface blockade running from Japan to Europe would continue until December 1943). Zaloga's "Japanese Tanks 1939-1945" states that the Panzer III's were delivered to Japan, while a Military Intelligence Report "German Technical Aid to Japan" also states they were shipped prior to 1943 but only that they "may have reached Japan", though due to the report being written after the fall of Germany but before the surrender of Japan it likely wouldn't have been possible to confirm at the time. Interestingly enough the same report mentions 2 Panzer IV F's being shipped around the same time period, but this intelligence report is the only source I've seen mentioning them. The same report also mentions Tannefels shipping unspecified "Tanks" but her sailing date is March-July 1942, but that would be too late for shipping a Panzer III N. However beyond these mentions information seems sparse after their shipping date.

[@calessel3139]

@@Toreno17 Are these German reports on the topic or some other nation's?

[@Toreno17]

@@calessel3139It's American report. The report mentions the Military Intelligence Division of the War Department, though a second listing of the report on the same website says the authors are the Office of Naval Intelligence. Its a very interesting report on all the German equipment and documents that Japan recieved or was interested in. (This is 3rd attempt at posting as my comment keeps disappearing, I suspect linking to the relevant document might be the cause, but it can be found at Archive.org and then searching for "German technical aid to Japan".) The relevant part about the Panzer III's and other German tanks is on pages 215-216. A list of German ship voyages to Japan is on pages 249-251. It was written after Germany's surrender so those writing it would have had access to German archives and personnel, as well as any intelligence gather on Japan during the war. I'm not sure if this is the same source as used by Zaloga (and Bob Carruthers in his book "Panzer III Germany's Medium Tank") but if not then presumably their must be some other sources elsewhere, though I've not been able to find it.

[@calessel3139]

@@Toreno17 Thanks for the info. And yeah KZbin hates when you post outside links in the comment section now. If I put an outside link in a comment, the comment is almost always immediately deleted. I get around it by just giving the doc or website name w/o the dot-TLD extension. This works most of the time but occasionally they'll even delete a comment with just the name of a website.

[@Wayhe]

Soo there is also a tank in the game world of tanks blitz which almost looks exactly like this (it is a tier 5 Japanese heavy tank) and in there they called it "Mitsu 108"

[@Hoonii_Surbaisse]

Also the so-called "Object 84" intrigues me.

[@parkerjanelle7853]

Always a good morning when you’ve got a ConeofArc video to watch with breakfast.

[@TheMainCore]

In another timezone: watching this with dinner!

[@WelcomeToDERPLAND]

The Thumbnail and the title give me the sneaking suspicion that this tank is actually just the Bri'Ish Independent tonk.

[@세키반키]

Fun fact: that MaiWaffentrager guy is also the one behind ho-ri production's bogus inflated specs (such as engine horsepower and armor thickness)

[@MrArgus11111]

Is this exaggeration for subtle nationalistic purposes maybe? I should add that the user calls itself "tank mommy" or something on Reddit... most likely a woman.

[@SkaerKrow]

IIRC, Mai has consistently been very vocal in promoting Japanese armor, and rather dubious in their credibility.

[@notagoodsitrep]

Mai is a South Korean woman. She makes mistakes as she is a human and has made other mistakes in her research as well (the Ishi-108 and the Ho Ri performance stats). She has also been instrumental in piecing together the once-thought lost info about the O-I super heavy, the Mistu-105 super heavy, thee mere existance of the Ho-Ri and other previously unknown Japanese armored vehicle designs. Being the first to discover things often leads to mistakes and misconceptions being made. Lord knows the numbers of revisions the scientific community has made to the T-Rex. Mai just likes tanks made in Japan enough to actually do research on them and had even commissioned a plushie of the O-I for her infant son (this is why she is called tank mom). She has no noticeable Japanese nationalistic tendencies considering she is from South Korea and has been the subject of intense harassment before over even more petty reasons than making an inaccurate theory. Be respectful of people and don't spread misinformation about them in response to their mistakes.

[@fungusamongus69420]

I was very surprised when Cone didn't point this out in the WT fake tanks video, how the Ho-Ri production was largely fake. For example, she mixed up the testing date of the gun and called it the tank's testing date (1944), and when she was asked to show proof of production all she posted was a chart of armored steel allocation, which allocated two vehicles' worth of steel by 1945. Numerous people that could read Kanji pointed this out but all have been dismissed by her "fans" on reddit as "nationalist".

[@fungusamongus69420]

She was also caught lying in a certain forum regarding the Type 90's armor. She provided a censored data sheet regarding the Type 90, with the parameter name curiously blacked out but the number is somehow uncensored and it said 580mm, trying to hint that the turret's KE protection us 580mm. Funnily, someone proceeds to debunk it immediately by posting an uncensored image, showing the parameter name as optics' mounting height on the turret.

[@drydogg]

Did you say, David Lister? Wasn't he the last surviving crewman of the Jupiter Mining Ship Red Dwarf?

[@calessel3139]

LOL

[@iakirakira1557]

what a smeghead!

[@drydogg]

@@iakirakira1557 LMFAO! Made my day, ya goit!

[@Justin-rv7oy]

This seems like Western confusion over the Type 91 or Type 95 heavy tanks. Did we know about them at the time or have faulty info? It seems like some period US info was guess work at best for Japanese developments from the early 30s to 45.

[@theironwolf1871]

Hello, can you cover the legend of the Type 2604 "super heavy project"? I want to know if you have any more information on it

[@hammergon587]

It's a fake created by Wargaming based off a turret emplacement from Koto fortress in Manchuria.

[@qazwsx000xswzaq]

Well Wargamming calls it a "variant" of O-I... Given that the O-I project was never finished and a turrent was never designed before the project was folded, this "Type 2604" and the "Type 5 Heavy" are just pure fantansy.

[@frankjandris6972]

Why does it look like a Japanese engineer saw the plans for the independent and said "yup this is the one"

[@w0lfgm]

Spys would sketch equipment on the spot or latter when they are away. And human remembering is not shinning spot.

[@TheFirstVonGunther]

Occasionally it is fun to get fake stuff on the official record. It just has to pass the smell test to S-1. My buddy is officially certified on a T-65B due to me seeing if we could pass a photoshopped cert at the end of my military career. The T-65B is an X-Wing from Star Wars.

[@wheels-n-tires1846]

Love it!!! While aboard a supply ship in my Navy days, I found the stock number for a F-14. For fun, I ordered one. Funny thing was, the request climbed the chain until it hit the Commodores (squadron commander, a Rear Admiral) office. It hit the fan after that. Lots of butt chewing commenced for all those who signed off on it!! I had preprepared an excuse, simply a typo, where swapping a single number made it a totally normal and common request... Just a shame that Tomcat never showed up on the pier...🤣

[@MedicalTape_xX]

Damn Mr Steve, you've really come a long way

[@toshimikazuki9913]

WG might put this as a Collectable or Premium Tank in Blitz or PC version

[@ariza7654]

Uh

[@dakufaust]

Its a tech tree in Blitz

[@toshimikazuki9913]

@@dakufaust ik it’s a tech tree in blitz, its Mitsu 108 but considering it has a real blueprint while being fake as well

[@toshimikazuki9913]

@@ariza7654 I’ve played the Mitsu 108

[@jonmcgee6987]

Too bad Pierre Sprey wasn't called out for his many years of being a con artist as well. In regards to his supposed influence of the design of several U.S aircraft.

[@TheDgamesD]

This thing is in World of Tanks blitz, kind-of. The Mitsu 108. Then the “Ju-Nu” “Ju-To” “Chi-Se” other.. weird vehicles.

[@Chipsahoy2019_]

Is the mitsu 108 real though? Found info for the mitsu 104 but not the 108.

[@kustosz8383]

No

[@thegamingzilla6269]

Well, while Japan never had a Vickers Independent clone, what it presented still found its way into Japanese heavy tank designs much like it did for just about everyone else in the Interwar period

[@warr666pigg]

So ConeOfArc likes ear cleaning videos. Well each to their own I suppose.

[@germansherman9395]

You know cone. I feel for you while reading through these comments. Most of them make me feel like they just saw the intro and then made a comment and others see so smoothbrained they couldn’t comprehend the words you were saying. Some of it may be a language barrier tho. Anyway nice video, I may not always agree with your opinions on warthunder stuff but your informational videos are always 10/10.

[@classicforreal]

Probably the reason why "Bovington" missed it is that Track Links and Bovington aren't as closely affiliated as you might think. Lister probably solicited Track Links for publication; Track Links, which is likely managed by a larger umbrella periodical publisher effectively licensing the Bovington/Tank Museum name, probably just took it in good faith and Lister of course would've taken his own research in good faith, especially given the admittedly adequate verification he did, and there you go. Source: I work in the publishing industry trust me this is how it works

[@armouredarchives8867]

lol no, track link is literally the magazine published in house by Bovington for the Friends of the Tank Museum. Formerly they were once a standalone group of friends and fans, but the title and group were merged into the dominating marketing arm of the museum and became and became an extension of marketing and sales more than a peer checked literary source. But otherwise, its written, directed produced and printed by the museum.

[@jimzhangzhang]

The “第一九一圖” on the upper left of the picture means “Picture No. 191”;

[@stellarris4878]

More like a intellegence blueprint, it's likely that Isuzu technician studied about the overall design and had a basic size stat about A1E1.

[@chickendrawsdogs3343]

I'd like to time travel and bring an M1 Abrams back to the day and make people lose their minds. 😅

[@krtinja3dprinting759]

Time travel to the 1930s, grab a bob semple, return to the present, go to ukraine, watch both sides run from your armored tractor menace

[@brianchan8]

@@krtinja3dprinting759 Ukraine is highly interested

[@krtinja3dprinting759]

@@brianchan8 maybe if we strap a javelin on top? :)

[@AtypickyKraken]

I highly appreciate your work, and with me being a WoT player, your videos really come in handy, because that game is really just a bunch of material for Fake Tank Fridays or Cursed by Design, more than often with incorrect vehicle specs or no historical references. Thank you for the effort put into this channel!

[@mathewkelly9968]

Surely this is a misinterpreted intelligence reports

[@CleveAneki]

Mai is actually rather (in)famous already for some pretty dubious things like using altered images (e.g. altering the pixel size across an image to falsify the scaling of different vehicles to each other) and very out of context quotes from documents to say something other than what was intended. More concerningly, this isn't the firs time they've brought a fake tank into the public eye, as the two current forms of the Ho-Ri in the game War Thunder are both fabrications to their credit.

[@IM_THE_CHANGLLER]

Looks more like the independent than a Japanese tank lol

[@coling3957]

It's funny that the Vickers Independent was a prototype that was displayed at events.. but rejected by British army and never produced. Britain were tank pioneers and other countries thought "This was the future" and copied it. USSR especially

[@derrickbiedermann9802]

What is the tank at 2:31? I don't recognize it. It is a modernization attempt on a T-28? Or one of Russia's one off multi-turret tanks like the T-100 and SMK?

[@kluaytodnampla]

I don't really know but look like a T-35 for me

[@theodorekaczynski8147]

T-35

[@feliz9532]

If im right ( which i think is ) is that the tank pictured is a late model of the T-35, like the the Bt-7 is just a Bt-5 with a sloped turret

[@STHV_]

Its a late model T-35 with the conical turrets

[@derrickbiedermann9802]

@@STHV_ Ah, thanks, I was not used to the conical turrets on the T-35. Plus it only has the one cannon turret, rather than cannon and MG turret up front. (Edit) Or is that thing I thought was a hull MG to the right of the secondary cannon turret the MG turret?

[@Hjaulmandra_Kanathara]

To be fair, the Grant in the beginning isn’t a terrible idea for a tank destroyer alteration. Obviously if you couldn’t scrap the Grant and had to upgrade it somehow the modeler design isn’t unbelievable or a terrible idea situations providing. But on look at the designs for this tank and the issues abound. I’m not an engineer, nor mechanically inclined. But just the concept has me scratching my head and asking questions

[@PaperThinArmor]

This reminds me of the Japnanese Aichi-96 heavy tank where there’s a shadowy photo of multiple/ one leading tank. I’m curious Is this real or is it just a fake tank?

[@PrinceOfParthia74]

maiwaffentrigger is korean not japanese, she stopped collabing with gaijin in 2018-2019 gave birth shortly after and took the motherhood path afaik. and i'm not saying all of this out of love for her. she was rude, judgemental and prejudice towards other nations with weaker armored vehicle history. she talked trash and laughed at italian tanks in the morning and researched or rather as we now know guessed up tanks for japan (which was the country committing unthinkable atrocities to her birth country korea during ww2) during evenings. her youtube channel is still up fully dedicated to mockery of italian armored vehicles. i can't believe how far the works of such a person can go, and now we know it wasn't even historical. most shameful on her part.

[@lunacae18]

"MaiWaffentrager" Why am I not surprised kekw Ruined the entirety of the Japanese line in wt

[@agridley1116]

I was thinking that you could do a video on some of the Japanese tanks held back, such as the chi ha short gun, the chi ha long gun (if it existed) and most notably the type 3 chi nu.

[@tisoyowens724]

Hahahaha I was just researching about this tank lol

[@Bingwell]

TANKS for this video!

[@aurorajones8481]

Forgive my ignorance but why is your little avatar in the lower half of the screen a girl when you sound like a guy. No disrespect. Im simply curious and frankly baffled.

[@super-cacti]

Thank you for making this video! I have made sure to update my post about the possible Japanese heavy tanks on the War Thunder Forums. I've made it clear that the Ishi-108 is pretty much a fake.

[@andrewhopkins886]

I love looking at the intel drawings of tanks. It's just funny because you can just tell they handed the description they received to some artist and said "draw that". It becomes kind of obvious when you look at the kv-2 drawing where the gun just wouldn't depress if the turret looked like that.

[@JETBLACKCORD]

Not even 40 minutes and seen 3 posts wanting the ishi108 lol

[@klafsen]

His name is "Dave Lister"? Sounds like an absolute smeghead. (For legal reasons: This is a joke)

[@aldochillgaming2381]

Dont mistake it for the Mitsu-108, The Mitsu-108 Has 3 Turrets and this one has 5

[@frednesbittjr.7862]

Much a doo-doo about NOTHING... > Site DELETED

[@asianbalot2211]

Probably the name "Ishi" named me in my middle name, my mom literally put that word in my name, ngl

[@yesman2948]

Random question but I was curious if you have any further knowledge on the T-35 Soviet Heavy and its unspoken about later model/upgrade. I've always found it interesting that the Soviets at one point actually tried to modernize it yet this is overlooked by many. It received new 45mm guns as well as upgraded and up armored turrets. I believe even the hull was brought up to a respectable armor profile of about 70mm thick even though I think it may have just been the front.

[@MrArgus11111]

I hope that they realized how stupid it was to do this very, very quickly. Neat as a curiosity though.

[@ConeOfArc]

There's an excellent book by Francis Pulham on the T-35s history which you can grab. Look for "Fallen Giants" and you should find it.

[@yesman2948]

@@ConeOfArc Much obliged, I've always been curious about random variations of weird/lesser known tanks like the Char 2C Bis and it 155mm Howitzer but I could rarely ever find anything about the T-35 that wasn't about the base model.

[@bigtinasoup2927]

Dave Lister......really. the massive tank painted red aswell ...... He have a pet cat ....

[@AlexSDU]

0.44 Those guys look like West Point cadets.

[@samnelson9038]

Found an old book my great grandpa had when he served in wwii. This tank was listed in it

[@gundog39]

You could say that Lister made a right "smeg up" with this one. 😉

[@dreadedbreadbed3705]

New fake tank Friday? I nut.

[@ayom3523]

Freakin wargaming mitsu

[@tylerlawrence1997]

Have a book from one of my great grandpa's that mentions this tank

[@kori7986]

What books are best for researching Japanese prototypes?

[@oanhnguyen4455]

Wotsblitz:Mitsu 108 ConeOfArc:Ishi 108 Wotsblitz:we should add that tank

[@rocket2739]

Ah yes, the new tier V tech tree tank Mitsu 108

[@sockmon1]

brilliant, my g.

[@superrcz295]

Hello

[@RugnirSvenstarr]

This video prompted me to look at that book again because I own it. The book claims that apparently their sources are: - July 1941 British intelligence documents reporting on that tank - Supply manifests from a japanese quartermaster in China asking for 7.5cm tank gun ammunition (not used by other Japanese vehicles) It also says there are Japanese documents relating to heavy tanks that were recovered by the British during the surrender of the Japanese in the Philippines relating to heavy tanks, but it doesn't state which tanks specifically those documents refer to. It also says the 37mm guns are not in the small turrets, but rather listed as two being in the main turret alongside the 75mm according to the British report, which the book notes is difficult to believe

[@Mr_Bunk]

I hold no malice toward David Lister or MaiWaffentrager, for reasons you already explain in the video. I do, however, hold immense anger toward Curator David Willey and the Tank Museum for not doing the most basic of fact-checking for their article. Between this, the TOG II* 17 pdr myth and the AVRE 290mm myth, the factoid-infected Tank Museum seems to resemble a for-profit commercial venture more and more, and are losing their vaunted reputation as custodians of armour history. I’m starting to think they don’t actually deserve to keep such legendary machines under their revisionist nonsense.

[@iMoD190]

that's a bit extreme. these are all very common misconceptions, so it's no surprise that they show up in museum articles too. while historians and museums should be held to a higher standard, the reality is that no one is going to put that much research into something like a magazine. I would save the anger and terms like 'revisionism' for people who actually deserve it, popular "internet historians" who push politically charged misinformation and conspiracy theories.

[@tristanzetonk7989]

I cannot believe Tojo tried to copy the Independent

[@Tigerpanzer6666]

i foound a few weird tanks that i cant tell if there fake or not

[@ufoengines]

Fake, but still looks cool.

[@superrcz295]

Hello

[@ufoengines]

@@superrcz295 Hi !

[@ShelbeBebop]

Funny that you make this video, because World of tanks Blitz just added the ‘Mitsu 108’ Japanese heavy tank with, get this, a 105mm howitzer in the main turret. It looks similar to the vickers, but also has some major differences. Maybe make a video on that?

[@ytkomar1141]

Im fact, there would be no problem with fitting a 37 mm gun into imdependents front turrets. I’m talking here about Puteaux SA18 gun witch was only slightly larger than a machine gun, it was also visually similar to the vickers 7.7 mg which was mounted on the T1E1.

[@jfv2312]

Totally unrelated to the video, but I just remembered that time when I couldn't convince some random guy that the IS-6 existed and that it wasn't soviet propaganda with fake photos and blueprints

[@Stellaris556]

Ishi-108 a.k.a Mitsu 108. Probably the chonkiest design for a Japanese heavy tank.

[@KManXPressTheU]

Obviously, The Japanese Copied the Soviet T-35 and T-28 Tanks

[@stuka5494]

Oh man. This looks JUST like the Tier 5 Japanese heavy tank in world of tanks blitz. They call it the Mitzu 108.

[@kirishima638]

Why is Mia controversial?

[@GideonpriyadharsanW]

Hey can put some videos about UDES 16 WHICH FROM WOT

[@andrewwoodhead3141]

What's your opinion on the ''OI" ? P.S. I totally agreed with your conclusion. Great presentation.

[@normanarmslave5144]

Despite it can be considered as an official concept made by IJA engineers, Japan is so economically bankrupt that every concept they create will never materialize during the war

[@jimzhangzhang]

The “第一九一圖” on the upper left of the picture means “Picture No. 191”;

[@ralphe5842]

I think it’s always a wish of modelers and gamers to wish for something new there a lot of models of German aircraft that “could have been” with amazing performance figures but the truth most if built won’t have even flown or there development would have continued in post war countries

[@nesyboi9421]

How did that fool anyone it's literally an A1E1 Independent I guess I'll just have to watch to find out

[@Briselance]

The fake M3 Grant tank looks like something that should and could have been a good TD.

[@jwenting]

given that David Lister is a trusted primary source for Bovington (and vice versa), it's not surprising both fell for it.

[@benzol123456]

The Super Conqueror or as an angry british gnome would call it the Conqueror Range Target.

[@Angelthewolf]

Now i finally know where wargaming got the idea for the Mitsu-108

[@Nilboggen]

Intel on foreign armaments is always a little cloudly. Sometimes its even done on purpose to further the countries own designs. If I am a government contractor and I find intel (real or fake) that another country is making some sort of technological leap I can procure more funding to research and implement a counter or similar technology.

[@jeidustry]

It would be a fun video idea to review the viability of valkyria chronicles vehicles, there are a surprising amount of them and a few have real life counterparts, maybe rank them in a tier list!

[@hikarihikari4501]

Bovington seems to got some negative reputation on refusing to accept some of the tanks(and they disappeared forever), ill maintenance on some of their collections and making mistakes

[@troygroomes104]

American forces in the northern Japanese home island recently found an A1E1 that was buried

[@dantejones1480]

Too easy. That's the Vickers Independent with Japanese writing.

[@Zodd83]

Full respect for your point about research and pursuit of precision. Thanks, really.