Indeterminate prison sentences - when 18 months can last 18 years

[@AAUK2]

Just horrible torture by a British government and shameful politicians.

[@TBOTSS]

At the time of his sixth review by the Parole Board in February 2018, Mr Lamb was serving a 30 month determinate sentence for Grievous Bodily Harm which was imposed in January 2018. That review was concluded on the papers with a no release decision. The current seventh review began in October 2018 and there have since been further convictions for Assault Occassioning Actual Bodily Harm dated 12 March 2019 and a further conviction of Assault Occassioning Actual Bodily Harm dated 18 March 2021 and other investigations. This has resulted in delays to Mr Lamb’s review, partly due to further court proceedings.

[@stasysuter9939]

Imagine hearing your son going through that down a phone and having no control over it, absolutely disgusting.

[@TBOTSS]

Carl Lamb is a violent thug with a Long record of violence before his road rage incident. In prison he has assaulted other prisoners and guards.

[@jameseastwood9673]

I'm a former ipp prisoner. 5 and half year tariff. Served just under 7 so I'm actually one of the lucky ones. Know lads that got 18 month tariffs and served well over a decade. It's due to being set courses to complete. But heavy backlog of availability on those courses meaning long long waiting lists. It's horrendous. Feel sorry for the lads in this report.

[@AAUK2]

Well done James... Good luck mate!

[@camellia8625]

Surely it would be cheaper to provide more courses than imprison them for years longer.

[@RaphaelDawkinsCombatRadio]

But as you know many of the ones still in, refuse to do the courses which are aimed at the individuals understanding and reforming their behaviour.

[@AAUK2]

@@RaphaelDawkinsCombatRadio we DON'T know that at all you Muppet...

[@paulroberts7544]

@@RaphaelDawkinsCombatRadio yet if you (rightly or wrongly) don't think you've done anything wrong, why would you reform? The reality is, innocent people are convicted. Also, the law isn't always just - in the past we've had people imprisoned for being homosexual for example. We might think we're more enlightened now, but people in future will be horrified at some of the things we imprison people for today.

[@onenation8707]

This country is criminal! Poor guy and family.

[@gambrydew2059]

He's probably got a history of violence.

[@R8V10]

Attacked prison officers and inmates.

[@barbarahalkyard1901]

Don't do the crime. if you can't do the time . Its that simple.

[@bennyboy2079]

And still better than most other countrys tho

[@onenation8707]

The replies just show how narrowed mined people can be. I bet they all live in a little perfect bubble world and don't know about real struggles in life.

[@australianwoman9696]

How can this happen? It in itself is CRIMINAL!!!

[@Ben-jq5oo]

So is physical assault. Maybe these sentences will act as a deterrent? Most men in prison are there because they haven’t learned to connect the dots between action and consequence. This vital skill needs to be learned in the first few years of life. Much harder to learn as a teen or adult. I’m sure this lad has learned now but the cost to his mental health in the process is huge. It’s very sad and it’s largely a male problem resulting from the inability to manage anger. Strong parenting in a kind home with clear boundaries and expectations from the earliest age is the only way for boys to learn anger management. I hope he gets onto a suitable rehabilitation course soon. Our prisons fail at rehabilitation. They are just warehouses. Nothing more. Check out prisons in Finland. They are well funded and focused on behaviour rehabilitation. I wish this young man well.

[@BarryMasterman]

@@Ben-jq5oo let’s just say one thing in the early stages of life lol and man to learn from better life and choices is at the age from 18 to 21 to make the difference to your future and life. life’s choices are made from that age where u can change from it

[@TheMasterblaster32]

​@@Ben-jq5ooThis 👆

[@ScottIsh80-qk7cp]

AND EWE CAIRN PAIRK EWE CAIR INA CAIR PAIRK IN CAIRDIFF BRA !!

[@ScottIsh80-qk7cp]

Ewe nose it bra uno zit . Safe my guy G 😟

[@lindenbutters9396]

This is an utterly unfair system, completely unkind and scary. Its time this cruel lack of justice was stopped. Those so unfairly incarcerated deserve compensation at the very least. It is torture and shows we DO NOT live in a democracy. It stinks! These people should be released ASAP.

[@OnTheRun96]

Don't worry, it will never happen to the middle classes.

[@KillzSk-y6p]

I’m a ipp tariff 5 years served 9 years first ever violent offence very horrific violent torture and humiliating the victim in a act of revenge the victim was believed to indecently assault a family member…I was 20 at the time got released at the age of 30 destroyed my life I’ve see my punishment but the scar of ipp I’ll never move from how can I deserve a ipp I’ve never in 10 years had a violent incident or fight in prison yet I’m deemed a dangour to the public sometimes I loose hope and want to end my life I think of it everyday I’ve had to choose to do over 54 courses group and packs yet I did all that time over and still live on it how can we get no help please 😢we’re beggin u help 😢I paid for my actions I’m sorry to my victim I really am I wish I could change the clock back I can’t see any other way then to sell drugs just to get back what I’ve lost and get a income I have no other choice every day I think I’ll get recalled 😢this is probably gonna not help what I’m writing please help

[@TBOTSS]

You belong in prison.

[@TBOTSS]

You are clearly a psychopath.

[@jathussain5645]

Anybody who hasn’t murdered anybody should be automatically released after serving their full ipp term if not the governors and parole people are plain evil

[@quack437]

At the same time the people who have been giving IPP sentences didnt get it for stealing a bag of sweets most of them are serious repeat offenders

[@BANKO007]

@@quack437One offender on the news today stole a mobile phone and got 2 years. He has been going insane because of the torture of being locked up 23 hours a day in a tiny cell. He has no hope of proving he is safe (whatever that means). This is a death sentence by torture. There is no excuse and we should not tolerate this or the people who support it in any way.

[@quack437]

@@BANKO007 i spent two years in prison as the old saying goes if you cant do the time dont do the crime

[@johnmartin4650]

So someone continues to decide how long you stay in prison…..if they take a dislike to you…..??? The notion of a just punishment goes out the window……bad news .

[@DaveV173]

The problem is your punished ×2 , once for doing the time and second the Probation services for England and Wales repunish you again , i was given a exclusion zone cuting me off from my entire family upon release, that in itself was a clear breach of my human rights under article 8 right to family and private life , this has been going on since my first release in 2014 , since then i have had 2 recalls and finally I couldn't take know more of this abuse by the Probation services and decided to leave the UK without permission. I don't intend on returning until my human rights are recognised and i am treated with respect and dignity

[@DaveV173]

If you are given an IPP for violence and the victim lives near your family then your receive a exclusion Zone & never be able to go & see your family again or life long friends etc , Sometimes the victim will use the Probation services as a tool for revenge and in some cases the Probation officer will tell the victim what to say i.e that they are scared of you and fear a encounter with you etc , that's all they have to say . I was first convicted of GBH with intent in 1991 & was arrested for another GBH with intent in 2007 , pror to 2007 i had no convictions or arrests with charges for 9 years , but that made no difference. I deserved to go too prison and don't argue that point what so ever ,but i believe that a prison sentence with a release date should have been given to me . The IPP sentence takes away the only thing a human being has left & that is " HOPE " it is designed to destroy you mentally & break your spirit also the last time it was used was by the Nazi's in WW2 for camp inmates.

[@Arthur-Gieves]

​@@DaveV173I'm an ex prisoner done around 4.5 years all in and I have to say it man you should be grateful because in most countries you'd have not been given a second chance to attack someone in the way you did (GBH assuming section 18) because in most countries me and you would be ghosts right about now so cheer up and stop your soft talk 😉

[@carlbland68]

@@DaveV173 no one gives a f m8

[@SirBobertThe3rd]

My brother was recalled last year over a false allegation. He was arrested for a domestic with his bird who drunkenly rang the police after falling and saying he'd hit her. No charge was made and he didnt stand before a judge but was dragged naked out of bed last April and taken straight to prison. He collapsed from the shock. He lost everything. His home, his possessions, his relationship, his pets. He lost everything. Last week he was assaulted and spent 2 days in hospital handcuffed to a bed. This IPP is disgusting and these men trying to build a life and recalled for a no guilty crime should be compensated greatly.

[@quack437]

Why was your brother given an IPP in the first place ?? Because they didnt hand them out lightly usally thfy were given to repeat and persistent offenders who were deemed a risk to the public... usally the people who got such orders have substantial criminal records and have served previous prison sentences

[@JulietCrowson]

Except the rich won't allow the public to use the public's money to compensate the wrongly convicted ⛪

[@SirBobertThe3rd]

@@quack437 manslaughter in 2007 after a man died in a fight he was in. He was given 4 years IPP and got out in 2015. Was recalled last April and still inside now.

[@quack437]

@@SirBobertThe3rd he must have been in prison or had been in trouble before though for them to hand down a ipp sentence they did just give them to anyone

[@SirBobertThe3rd]

@@quack437 no mate he's was in the Army. Never so much as stole a chocolate bar.

[@davidweather3267]

I've seen a parole board knock back on the basis that the I.p.p prisoner needed to address his depression before he would be considered for release. He was depressed because he was behind bars. The parole board, treatment courses, psychologists and offender management system is much like a game of snakes and ladders. You can jump though all their hoops and then be told nope sorry back to square 1. Imagine having your freedom in the hands of civil servants.

[@jamesjameson4566]

Imagine your mum or your dad in front of a violent prisoner that shouldn't be in the streets

[@Dev0ps572]

​@jamesjameson4566 many IPP prisoners were non violent crimes..

[@jamesjameson4566]

@@Dev0ps572 and many are not

[@Dev0ps572]

@jamesjameson4566 How many? What are the stats you're working from? Every case I've seen within recent years has been for non-violent offences.

[@jamesjameson4566]

@@Dev0ps572 54

[@julianaylor4351]

To be honest this doesn't surprise me, the whole legal system in this country is a mess. I'm in the middle of a totally unfair civil dispute. My local council has lied about my mental capacity and is trying to steal my private house, UC in my Building Society account and burgle my home, over someone else's fraud, which they are trying to profit from, forcing out of my house with threats and putting me in to care. However I have help, unlike these poor souls. I am in an old folks home, not the dump, they were going to put me in, they can't steal my money ( always use a building society, not a bank ) and they will be arrested if they try to get into my house. This country has gone so wrong. The vunerable and those with mental and or physical health needs, or just old like me, are short changed, as are petty criminals, who are often damaged people. Meanwhile financial criminals and shoplifters and some muggers get off with a slap on the wrist and various authorities fail to respond to the worst crimes, until it's too late. Take that case of the baby killer nurse....WTF were her hospital management doing? Why are kids getting hold of knives? Why are these people being jailed for excessive numbers of years for petty crimes? Why is my council being allowed to try to steal from me, over something I didn't do? I blame the whole of the bigotted and out of date attitudes, in our legal and governing authorities. We are living in the 21st century, they are living in the late 19th.

[@julianaylor4351]

@@bb69bb They lied to a court and pretended the house was theirs, using someone else's fraud, who pretended my house belonged to the council and made fake claims for money to fix things in it. Meanwhile the social services forced me to look after my mentally unwell older brother, who damaged the house, hoarded and beat me up. He is now in care. They used what is called a Court of Protection, saying what the fraudster who stole my identity said, that I was learning disabled, because they thought that I had done, what my brother had done. I was accused of kicking a door off its hinges. I actually have arthritis and cannot even kick a ball. They are about to lose the case, because I've been proved to be the complete opposite, it's my family's house and I locked them out and I locked them out of my building society account, because they thought they could steal from both. Because I am the home owner I got free legal help, under the legal aid system. The fees will be paid for out of my criminal compensation, the house and my money and possessions together being worth, a serious sum money. On top of that, the local council will get fined and High Court Writs against them, over trying to steal my money and house with possessions inside. I think most of the people from the council are just useful idiots, useful to the people from the Financial Department, who instead of reporting the original fraud to the police, decided to use it to steal a house. Houses where I live in London, are now very expensive....they can't afford to buy it off me, and I'm not selling. Serves them right, plus I don't think, they understand British property law, and do not realise the house went straight to my late mother, when our father died, because she put money into the purchase and we ( I and my brothers ) divided the estate via probate, between us when she died....we didn't need a will in either case, but I will make one to protect the estate, from a possible future fraud, because my younger brother, who is in care, because he is learning disabled and we couldn't look after him anymore, deserves to inherit, if I predecease him, not have his legacy, stolen by these thieves, plus it is my home now. What makes it worse, is they had no excuse, used forged documents and false statements, so are in contempt of court, plus the house has been listed as private property online since 2015, when the first fraud against me, by the identity thief was carried out.

[@muslimresponse103]

2:00 they said it perfectly! its basically torture in the UK yet our government goes around criticising others for their “human rights” violations? absolute “shite!”

[@Abraham_Tsfaye]

When I was in UK. I saw empty boarded up streets under a constant grey sky, litter everywhere. Homeless people sleeping in doorways. Opioid addicts out of their mind and women so drunk they urinated on the streets. It's a sad declined country

[@OnTheRun96]

It's a dying country. They are obsessed with "sending money to the Ukraine" and "Housing immigrants on a raft" in an pathetic attempt to show the world, they still matter.

[@thenavigator4493]

Without government, who else would we pay to psychologically torture petty criminals? 🤔

[@Truth2power5848]

While major criminal in the parliament and throughout government and police and authorities get away Scot free just nasty we the people must rise

[@BarryMasterman]

8:16 I’m an ipp myself had 2 years 6 months tariff done 6 years 10 months for out 2013 recalled twice no crimes. Now awaiting for license termination this month it’s a joke

[@Davserban]

What was it for if you don't mind me asking.

[@AAUK2]

Awful.... Good luck to you mate ❤

[@BarryMasterman]

@@Davserban gbh intent

[@quack437]

Ok and how many previous convictions did you have and was it your first time in prison

[@bowfell]

​@@BarryMasterman hello is there a way to contact you? I am also ipp

[@nyalih929]

How is the UK a country that follows the rule of law when you can be jailed INDEFINITELY like a detainee at Guantanamo Bay?

[@manchesterukabriefvideooftime]

I dont notmally stick up for inmates but this is sick, Lock up without a release date thats inhumane. If your in for life you should be told that . Its disgusting

[@aaronburge7608]

The government do what they want. They have all the weapons.

[@gambrydew2059]

People should behave themselves.

[@Christinebanks11]

So do we . 🇺🇲 😆

[@aaronburge7608]

@@Christinebanks11 Yeah you do. Fucking right aswell, self protection the only way. Not sure about Trump saying they will shoot shoplifters. What do you reckon?

[@carlbland68]

@@gambrydew2059 like the gov do ?

[@gstyle5475]

To put this in perspective, the man in prison in the video had 80 previous offences. He is a persistent offender and this could be a reason why he was not released. Also for the offence he is in prison for he skipped the court date at crown court. The offence he was put in prison for was an unprovoked road rage attack on a vulnerable person. I think Channel 4 should add these details when explaining the background before misleading people

[@wolfgangkranek376]

They should've mentioned that. Still keeping a person from attending the funeral of a parent is horrendous. After all he is not in jail because he murdered someone. The way this law works is even more inhuman then the three strikes rule in the US. Those people at least know what to expect.

[@darrenhems2291]

How could him having 80 previous offences have anything to do with him not getting out?hes serving time for the current offences not the previous 80.

[@wolfgangkranek376]

@@darrenhems2291 In every penal procedure it is relevant, if you already have a criminal record or not. Take fe. someone who already has raped two women, and then a third one. Should such a person be judged only on the single last crime, or should the penalty take into account that he is a persistent offender?

[@gstyle5475]

@@darrenhems2291 when sentencing any previous offences are taken into consideration

[@darrenhems2291]

@@wolfgangkranek376 yes but what im saying is its the judge on the day that gives the sentencing.not the parole board.the judge can take into consideration the previous offences yes.but the parole board should base their decisions on behaviour inside etc.not the previous offences.that is none of their business,the latest offence is.

[@mielerodriguez5678]

*Extreme justice equals extreme injustice.*

[@tellmemore8837]

That's not true.

[@eagledice2008]

Even in a 3rd world all sentences have a start and end date smfh

[@bettyboop-xg6jo]

How vile. And Venables was released twice. How unfair.

[@GnosticCushite]

I did 4 years in California prisons but never in my life would I have thought the justice system was this bad in the UK.

[@SI-cd7xs]

in the uk you can get a life sentence with this IPP bullshit for minor crimes, meanwhile you do more prison time for 'hate speech' then rape. this country is a dystopian disgrace

[@AliAli-o7f8j]

He was not randomly picked up from the street & jailed.....He is there for a reason & the safety of the public

[@cjones3983]

He got 18 months and has done 18 years ffs. Stfu

[@michaelbrown1557]

are you mental? like @cjones3983 said the guy got 18 month and has done 18 years!! people like you are the reason the UK has gone to shite

[@jonnyp1992]

Doesn't matter he don't deserve to be there for 18 years

[@Aprilmixer]

no he got 18 months he should of did that not still be in for no reason if you murder you get less if it was your son would you say the same thing dont think so

[@Ddonawan]

But when the rehabilitation places are the ones making things worse surely they need change something

[@anasgheith.9076]

I live thousands of miles away in a completely different continent, and I came across this video and I feel heavily distraught watching this video. My heart reaches out to this family who suffered severe injustice.

[@Christinebanks11]

Join the club 🇺🇲

[@jamesjameson4566]

Toughen up

[@Tetris_Effect]

Don't feel too bad, most people are crying out for tougher sentencing all these kids killing each other now, people have had enough. They all committed crimes, they can all do the time :)

[@southlondon2051]

What planet do you live on then if you live hundreds of thousands of miles away? Pluto😂

[@lutontown5923]

Just thank god you dont live in this sinking ship of 🇬🇧.

[@Simon-xc6iy]

Criminal beyond comprehension

[@Stef23441]

Ipp prisoners get kept in jail because of there behaviour inside prison , if they behave and play the game do all the courses expected and they will be released Simple as (coming from an ex ipp offender)

[@sonnyc3826]

that makes sense..theyre probably problematic inmates and do bad things while there..if they were released theyd probably jsut re-offend so in that sense i get it.. its nice to hear logic form someone whos experienced this..id have a hard time beleiving this would be for no reason whatsoever. these peopel probabyl dont listen while in prison and get in fights, refuse duties given or refuse to do these books or whatever theyr supposed to do.

[@aaronmilnthorpe8982]

This is a social injustice that needs rectifying ASAP. I feel sorry for the prisoners and their families 😔

[@chrisalfred5989]

This is disgusting. So unless I'm missing something, people got 18 months for road rage and ended up doing 8- 15 years. How is this even legal ???? Something has to be done !

[@racheleddy1030]

Definitely done more while being in there …they are not keeping him in there for nothing

[@nadMoZzzg]

​@@racheleddy1030like freaked out because "good guys" turn there life into torture

[@cherylwarburton5055]

Think because he had 80 previous offences is the excuse

[@panchh9228]

I don’t agree with it but it isn’t just because of that he’ll have have previous convictions close to release before

[@Janet-g2u]

I have a son exactly the same situation served 20 years now ..absolutely inhumane treatment .my son spent most of this in solitary ..they have no hope what so ever

[@lizlynskey8281]

All IPP sentences should be looked at IPP was abolished in 2012 even David Blunket has agreed they weren’t working, it’s cruel to keep prisoners banged up because they were given IPP sentences before 2012 when they have actually served their time especially when you hear of Prisoners who have done worst crimes & been released, our laws are totally out of date for the crimes that have been committed,

[@tester4327]

Judged by a justice system that's upheld by biggest organised crime syndicate UK? The police themselves backed up by barristers solicitors openly practicing two tear justice system of those who can afford to pay privately access and those who dependent on legal aid.. People sat on these sentence are majority who couldn't afford to pay for justice.. Uk ? Only 4 law magnacarter which apply today are what the justice system built on and dictate a solicitor barrister are legally morally ethically obligated to uphold the law irrelevant of fee... If these people become judges as is the case it only stands to reason are the heads along side politicians like kier stamer of organised crime syndicate police themselves are ?

[@louisemay8185]

The system it self is mentally unwell. Man made law ! What do you expect.

[@dancam7130]

Absolutely shocking corrupt system. It’s not just the prisoners they are hurting . Do your time and move on

[@matthewsill748]

The crazy thing is they let murderers,armed robbers all sorts of crazy people back into society but you can commit one assault and end up in prison for 20 years what a disgrace

[@4th_Disciple]

This too is modern day slavery not just wage and debt slavery.

[@Lucas-yy3dh]

Interesting segment, but I really hate how they give scant info on the crime. To say that guy was locked up for a road rage incident is pretty dam vague imo. Probably the guy did something absolutely horrific. Not saying that 18 years is fair but we need to know the full story if you're going to do proper journalism.

[@tohtorrent]

It looks like he cant keep it together and prolonging his stay by behaving violently.. Prison cant fix him. But it is not a guarantee doctors can either.

[@kriskalpa]

Channel 4 don't do journalism, they do activism.

[@Shsjier]

Assault. Learn to listen

[@PaulGappyNorris]

@@Shsjier”assault” is scant information 🙄

[@quack437]

Carl lamb 18 months IPP for a road rage incident where he assaulted a vulnerable person and then failed to appear for his sentencing , he also has 80 previous convictions... whilst in prison he spent five years in soliitary ... so to put some perspective on it carls no angel ... you dont get such sentences for stealing sweets .. the majority on these sentences are repeat violent offenders who have long criminal records and served multiple sentences so put the violins away folks ...

[@Kathleen-m8v]

This is outrageous, where are all the social justice warriors when actual injustices take place. This poor family has been devastated, my heart goes out to them.

[@ramel684]

"Social Justice Warriors" talk about reforming the criminal justice system all the time.

[@AAUK2]

Here...

[@Ben-jq5oo]

The victim would likely have felt devastated also..Who knows the long term effects there. Maybe PTSD, resulting in job loss, relationship breakdown? That person’s life might have been destroyed as well..

[@Professional_Youtube_Commenter]

nah, im a social justice type. anyone who is violent and dangerous to other people should harsh sentences to deter. If someone whose stabbed someone up, serves and IPP sentence and then comes out, and gets into a road rage incident, blocks someone in, runs up to the other drivers window and threatens them ... they should go straight back into prison

[@Kathleen-m8v]

@@Ben-jq5oo yes violent crime is the worst type of crime, especially against children, the disabled and elderly, basically the defenseless Anyway I was commenting on this case and wasnt talking about criminality in general.

[@baby_joe]

I worked in prisons for 7 yrs, and it was only through my work that I found out about ipp. The problem is most people still don't know about ipp. Therefore the government can ignore it, because it isn't going to affect how many people vote for them

[@bennyboy2079]

Agree very true

[@anthonydoyle7370]

Do they still have the power to section people? I don't think they even need a judge for that.

[@BANKO007]

@@anthonydoyle7370 This evil policy was originally introduced by David Blunkett and removed by Kenneth Clark, but only for new cases. The old cases are still being tortured to death in prisons with no real hope of release.

[@Ben-uy3qe]

Mad how in the country we can sentence a murderer to 9 years and they get out in 5. And then you have someone that gets a bit of road rage and they end up being inside over ten years more than the murderer. Justice system is goosed. Everything is.

[@racheleddy1030]

A bit of road rage - and what’s he done while inside. . . They clearly see him as a danger so being kept away from innocent people is a good thing!!

[@Ben-uy3qe]

They don’t say that on the video though so I’m going off if he’s done nothing inside.

[@GeoffV-k1h]

Not a fan of being soft on violent criminals, but this situation is bizarre and appears plainly unjustifiable. It could become a national scandal. David Blunkett, who introduced the IPT system, has repudiated it as showing itself to be administered in a totally unreasonable way. It must be reviewed asap.

[@Jesusandbible]

I thought this was in the USA when I heard of it. I cannot believe something this staggeringly draconian and unjust is going on in the UK. It reminds me of the plot of the novel and film Les Miserables, where he does over 10 years in prison for stealing a loaf of bread.

[@NubianPrince85]

Disgusting...need to get sorted...

[@AmyRoybal]

This is on Justice. My husband has the same sentence and has been locked up in and out since he’s been 20 started when he was barely 18. He is 43😢

[@Aprilmixer]

well they did try and there was like 20 marching where was the other 3000 in family's none thats why it was put out there because nobody knew what IPP was

[@tyronesmith4622]

This is really unjust and upsetting. They should all be released if they pose no danger to society and have done their time. 😢

[@TheSincereb11]

Makes me feel sick to my stomach...can't imagine going though something like this

[@kriskalpa]

people who receive these sentences are receiving them for a reason. Will you follow up this report interviewing the parents of those injured or affected by the original crime?

[@Ben-jq5oo]

My thoughts too.

[@Krytern]

Why are you acting like people are pretending they're in prison for no reason? 18 years without an end date is inhumane. 18 years.

[@AS-gz8oe]

Even so, im sure even the victim of the assualt since moved on 18YEARS LATER! Its a sign of your callous inhumanity that you care nothing for the facts of the case and blindly believe in a legal system historically exposed as corrupt

[@sueyourself5413]

It'd be nice if you actually watched the video. Then you'd understand that these people are being charged for X time and are serving Y time. The victims are irrelevent.

[@markwidgery1922]

Sentences are handed out without any thought by incompetent and corrupt judges. Judge are given presentence reports and sentence recommendations at great expense to the tax payer, but arogant judges ignore them.

[@babajaga158]

Ohhh have a read what he done. I am sure you would want him as your neighbour.

[@WhichDoctor1]

did he murder several people in cold blood? Or abuse kids? Because those are the only reasons i can think of to justify life in prison. Which this de facto is

[@RankinMsP]

@Nigelfarij then almost the entire Tory party should be in jail for the lives they have damaged and cost.

[@gambrydew2059]

I wouldn't want him as my neighbour.

[@gambrydew2059]

@Nigelfarij He probably had a long list of violent crimes before his ipp sentence was imposed.

[@markwidgery1922]

​@NigelfarijBS they are often given for a first offense.

[@leeorr9071]

Too all the families get thousands of people to sit outside the jails till they get out and don’t let anyone go into the prisons and the government will act than ??

[@therealisation5500]

Indeterminate acts of random violence deserves indeterminate sanctions

[@shrimpoffthebarbie]

Awful. It's going to get worse. Much worse.

[@lindamiller7851]

Shameful.

[@Fugazi420]

I'm an ipp prisoner, I was sentenced in 2006 and got out in 2016. I served just over 10 years and was in prison with Carl.

[@Khadiyah01]

Wanna know something funny the parts that they miss out is absolutely beautiful 100% he has not had good behaviour inside there and probably has racked up extra charges while in prison it’s not even possible you just get put in prison and left

[@racheleddy1030]

100%

[@paulroberts7544]

I don't think I can ever support life sentences for criminals - no matter what they've done. Society makes rules to allow us to cooperate and coexist - and there has to be a way to deal with people that break those rules. But at the end of the day - a criminal is just a person that hasn't been willing or able to follow society's rules. We aren't Gods. We don't get to treat people like animals because they broke rules. I don't like the CJS to be used to punish, get revenge, appease a baying mob. Everyone was once a child - perhaps born with something not quite right, or perhaps experiences in life made it impossible for them to conform to societies rules. Whatever they've done - it's no reason to treat them badly.

[@arserobinson7118]

Another failure in the CJS by the Labour Party, disgusting to get 18 years in custody for ABH, which is not considered a very serious crime. You would likely get less than that for murder or voluntary manslaughter. The heaviest sentence for ABH is about 18-24 Months in Custody good behaviour or no more than 3 years as the maximum sentence is set at 5 years. He should be released and compensated.

[@greenerz]

Shame on the gov , shame on the prison system , shame on the king for allowing his name to be associated with modern psychological torture,

[@TheHandsomeman]

"This is EVIL".

[@bombibom1930]

IPP's is a piece take! Liberty!

[@112boatman]

They still have this sentance in scotland its called order lifelong restriction some have done a decade for breach of the peace

[@quack437]

Yes but what did they do to get the order in the first place too many so called tough boy criminals out there playing their violins ... if you get such an order you have done some serious crimes and time previously

[@BowserLucaTheThird]

I can here the echoes of people saying it's more than for the criminals than the victims these days

[@JulietCrowson]

People in prison are often innocent. We know that but the lawyers are given air time and the innocent are given no air time ⛪🙏

[@BANKO007]

You are right. I am sure that people often plead guilty because they are advised that there is a risk of a much harsher sentence if they plead not guilty. The IPT, however, is pure torture. They treat El Chapo better that this.

[@l6outinthestix46]

Ban ipp sentences now come on weres the justice

[@Aprilmixer]

they did in 2012 but prisoners who where still in are still on this sentence my friend lucky his out but is still on IPP from 2008 it needs to be abolished from people outside too

[@jjhkm]

This is one crazy story, congrats C4. You're life can be handed over to Donald Duck to make a decision on it. Would like to see retiring army taking on roles as prison officers to motivate people incarcerated positively and people making decisions like this ipp a minimum of 40 years of age in a blind lotteried group going between prisons to oversee any decision like this on somebody's freedom to eliminate any bias towards a strong character in a routine group.

[@adrianeyre3630]

Free Pepsi Watson he’s done his time and definitely not a threat to the public or himself.

[@darksideofthemoon1002]

Yes sad about Pepsi,they won't let him out because he tells it how it is but he's no harm to anyone

[@adrianeyre3630]

@@darksideofthemoon1002 the put him away because he was a whistle blower , at least we know what’s really going on in the uk prisons .

[@PCDelorian]

They all need to be reviewed by courts, if a life sentence is appropriate such a sentence can be properly imposed, if not release them accordingly.

[@BANKO007]

Everyone in the system with the power to sort this out is an abject coward.

[@geocachingwomble]

Why don’t get it this is not a crime it’s a public service to protect people from harming others.

[@quack437]

As a former prisoner i can totally understand the torment these people feel ... but at the same time alot of IPP prisoners are repeat violent offenders and were given the sentence for the publics safety... alot of people will say oh but they changed in prison yes well that is the point but in some cases people are on there 3rd or 4th stretch and despite what some people will tell you you dont get an ipp for shop lifting alot more has to of happened to be given such a sentence... A lot of the people crying about these sentences are the same people who be outin the yard bragging about the crimes they weren't caught for and in some cases it would surprise you what time they should have got.. turns out the guy doing 18 months for the road rage attacked a vulnerable person and has 80 previous convictions funny they left that bit out , if he was refused permission to attend his mums funeral ill put money on its because of his behaviour inside... no point getting out the violins unless your going to tell the whole story

[@gpo746]

Ok , so if it was abolished then the sentences should be also. I have no time for criminals BUT once they have been handed a sentence , say 18 months then that is the full sentence they should serve , not a day more . OK, Early release for people who show that they are towing the line and for good behaviour .THAT is the fairness of the justice system However, I have a huge problem with the law when it comes to things like this. How on earth does 18 months turn into 18 years , Unbelieveable ... When slavery was abolished the slaves were legally freed . So when that law was abolished why are there still people in prison, moreover why are people being recalled for stupid things like "going on holiday " or being late for an appointment ...on a 99 year license !!!! These licenses should be cancelled too . The Ministry of Justice should really give their heads a damned good wobble and sort this mess out . I am so sorry for people that have served their time in jail and to all intents and purposes have paid their debt to society . WHY are they being held against their will...ILLEGALLY !!!

[@racheleddy1030]

Obviously way more to this story - He’s clearly still seen as a danger

[@BANKO007]

What if they see you as a danger? Are we ok to lock you up forever?

[@Aprilmixer]

no you have no clue think if you got 18 months and where not let out 18 years later my friend was lucky but got 2 years and spent 12 years fighting to be out his now out but has still IPP sentence on him forever it needs to be for all it was abolished in 2012 but you still on IPP for 99 years

[@CLee-qi8dn]

Can someone tell me what is the good thing this government brought us (normal UK citizens) in the past decade?

[@racheleddy1030]

As for the woman - How is she going on holiday without telling probation - she can’t blame anyone else she knew the consequences

[@nadMoZzzg]

🤡🤡

[@CLee-qi8dn]

That’s new to me. Please exposure this type of issues more. Hopefully nothing worse than that could be found in the future ….

[@BlackoutGenie]

Such a shame dirty criminals had to serve proper sentences lol

[@freeatlast.]

Violent prisoners can not be let loose on the general public.

[@1234_Flux]

Over many years prisoners can change and improve. You can't just lock people up forever because you feel they are a danger to society. Life sentences require significant crime.

[@lisasuzannekear-ranby8101]

Ss ..as a former prisoner myself, dont think you know what you are talking about!! Ive seen people who have killed someone get less than this man ....

[@lisasuzannekear-ranby8101]

Very ignorant as it goes

[@freeatlast.]

@@lisasuzannekear-ranby8101 You may have known someone kill in prison and done less time, but it's not about that is it.

[@kimberleyhoride7545]

Money Money Money! So sad because pedos and predators get rewarded when the vulnerable are punished. Love to you all xxx

[@maggieadams8600]

The mother of baby P has been released and yet these men are left to rot in prison, none of it makes one iota of sense. I never knew that this happened in Britain, why are they singled out for this torture?

[@erigrimo2455]

So wrong disgusting I hope the family fight for him 🙏🏻

[@gambrydew2059]

If he's that disturbed cutting off his own ear, he might as well stay in prison.

[@joejoe2928]

DISSGUSTING..!!! Human rights .what HUMAN rights??

[@tonyrobinson4595]

So mental health crisis as a result of indefinite sentences is, in many cases the reason theyre not released!!! Utter disgrace, !!!!

[@MrKbassett17]

Are justice system is a joke u now have to do 12 months probation when u get out even if u done 2 months of a 4 month sentence u can end up doing more time being recalled then when Ur sentence was I got 4 weeks jail ended up doing 5 months of a 4 week sentence as they kept on recalling me over petty things like being late for probation even when u ring them saying ur be late they don't care probation love recalling people

[@alidentity]

These sentences made people more dangerous not less. An offence or the same nature committed 3 times would mean IPP sentences. Imagine know if you have two convictions for violence meant a third and you get IPP 99 years. You are in a situation where you need to defend yourself. You know a common assault charge gets you IPP, well you may as well murder the other person and earn the 99 years. That is exactly how I thought whole time these were still around. In this period I had previously served 3 prison sentences for violence yet at the time worked with police, probation and offenders. I wasn't and haven't been in and trouble at the time or since. However had I been attacked I had made my decision I would earn the 99 years I received.

[@ScottIsh80-qk7cp]

80+ convictions then pulls someone out of a car to hurt them then goes on the run . Iip was ment for bad ones like that family .🤣

[@jutjet4011]

Disgraceful he's no threat whatsoever to society

[@johnflynn5044]

Successive Home Secretaries from both sides of the political floor have condemned this IPP stuff as illegal and inhumane.. Of course some prisoners need to be retained beyond their initial release dates, when they commit serious offences in prison, but so many are just lost in the system.. In many cases, lazy handling of notes and records kept on prisoners during their incarcerations and many of these files are more often than not, written up on the previous notes and so on. Its perverse.. No human should ever be imprisoned without knowing for how long ..

[@leeroybrown2461]

Sorry man Terrible

[@fullywaved2859]

I was very lucky I avoided that at around 05 times, I thank God

[@oxo588]

Am a current ipp prisoner i did 8 year and 2 weeks jail i told my probation they can keep me in jail as am done f##k release that year he recommended me for release I think some probation officers like the power hold my probation is really good she works with me not against me nd i meant it got to point when i stopped caring its not physical torture it mental torture 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢

[@AliAli-o7f8j]

You are only talking about his sentence, first, talk about the crime he committed. He is there for a reason.

[@garycroft4960]

All talk these people, nothing will ever get done about it , i was given an ipp sentence of 11 months and i did 11 years , nothing will get done , ive heard this rubbish for 16 years .

[@lawrencebishton9071]

is this what has happend to me ?

[@camamac7787]

Im an ex prisoner. Hate me I don't care. I served my time kettling nonces every opportunity. I've seen IPP/eds lads killing themselves over this and I think it's insanity that the whole European union called this law illegal but people are still serving this sentence, some for manslaughter, some for assault, some for just affrays and public order offences. This is sickening to me. Many of these people have served double digit sentences because they've been waiting for a parole hearing that whole time. I had to tourniquet a good man's arms and legs and give aid for 30 minutes because officers and healthcare aren't properly trained for these incidents. He was a genius in his own right, he made mistakes but he took that time to learn the law and would volunteer to be a ''mkenszie friend" to make sure the less educated prisoners rights weren't violated. Some of the kindest people I met in jail had just snapped for valid reasons and got locked up under this abhorrent law. I hope this law is completely abolished and the IPP lads get a full pardon. Imagine this being a family member, locked up without valid cause for as long as the government feel like it. Purely sickening.

[@BANKO007]

I would normally conclude that someone who claims they were "kettling nonces" is a violent, sadistic person who somehow believes that continuing violent crime against something they personally disapprove of makes them better than their victims. It is the exact opposite and belies an intrinsic, violent nature that can never be trusted. But I agree that the IPT is sickening. There must be one system of justice in a democracy that is fair to all.

[@TheMrSafeTheFirst]

He’s being kept in because of AN ASSAULT. He’ll certainly think twice next time won’t he! What I’m more concerned about is MY TAX being WASTED on the scum in the prisons.

[@Davserban]

And you've never done a mistake. And you've never hit someone right ? F your tax money

[@WhichDoctor1]

but why is he being singled out for such disproportionate punishment when other people convicted of the same crime at the same time were released over a decade and a half ago? Punishing different people differently for the same crime is not justice. And if our justice system isn't just then what is it?

[@SonsofThunder1234]

I'd say he's paid his debt to society now. He is innocent again. Did you know that to be self-righteous, like you, is actually to be unrighteous.

[@tohtorrent]

@@Davserban" 80 previous offences" "victim was punched through the window then kicked outside his car", "convicted of robbery at the age of 15"

[@Ben-jq5oo]

@@DavserbanActually..NO, I haven’t ever hit anyone. Assault is a very serious crime and should not be dealt with lightly.

[@mirajali4144]

The farther is absolutely 💯 correct when talked about human right’s etc

[@quack437]

The father leeaves out the fact his son attacked a vulnerable person in a road rage incident for no reason and has 80 previous convictions.. he also left out his sin has done a total of 5 years solitary for his behaviour whilst in prison ... so he did get the sentence for nothing

[@nadMoZzzg]

​@@quack437so it's normal to lock someone in solitary for 5 years and it's not a crime by itself?

[@sunking25]

probably not safe to be released

[@Christinebanks11]

Ssssshhhhhh no one is supposed to do that.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

As if you know!

[@quack437]

​@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx Google him 80 previous convictions

[@tester4327]

And the police wonder why public has turned on them ? These law's was posificly for people engaged in organised crime. Many regular people unwell and more mental health illness resulting in addiction dependency locked up as a result of police CPS abuse of this law intended for organised crime syndicates.

[@PLuMUK54]

The police do not make the law. The police do not decide what sentence is given.

[@Christinebanks11]

In my country 🇺🇲 life means life , most of the time. But that is serious crimes or repeat offenders .