Indo-European News 10/2023 (with Prof. Tony Yates)

[@akarchive0508]

I love this kind of regular Indo-European historical linguistics news!

[@thegodofthegods1084]

Same here. Always fun to watch a video like this.

[@ADHDlanguages]

Babe wake up, new Indo-European language just dropped.

[@gergelybakos2159]

Thanks a lot!

[@joanleaming6684]

Thanks

[@davidlericain]

Tony Yates is my favorite guest BTW.

[@willinnewhaven3285]

The relationship of Hittite and Luvian reminds me of the way Aramaic replaced Hebrew in everyday life and then started to become a liturgical language alongside Hebrew. Not that I was around at the time.

[@dcdcdc556]

Vampire reveal

[@amymurch]

Did you read about the Amorite tablets?

[@InvincibleSummer7]

The handsome duo is back!

[@ur-inannak9565]

Hittites are not the earliest attested linguists. Professor Yates was correct in thinking Akkadian already had a grammatical tradition. The Old Babylonian scribes had already developed grammatical terms for describing Sumerian. In some sense you could say the Shulgi's Neo-Sumerians standardizing old Sumerian texts should be considered linguistics, though the main challenge there was the script, so more like they were the first epigraphists, or something.

[@阳明子]

Thanks to the great Doctors!

[@senecaflint6853]

Fascinating to think about how even modern linguistic experts would struggle to fake an ancient language. Shows how truly complex every language actually is

[@ur-inannak9565]

About the Etruscans coming from Troy, I found an academic article arguing it was the case and showed it to my professor, who told me the author of the paper was a known quack.

[@Rehan-pd7md]

What was this paper?

[@ur-inannak9565]

@@Rehan-pd7md It was comparing linguistic features of Etruscan to non-IE languages of Anatolia and concluded they were related and therefore the Etruscans came from Troy. I think the author had a French surname, the paper was written in English. Thats all I can remember.

[@Rehan-pd7md]

@@ur-inannak9565 ah I see, thank you! I'll ask around and see if anyone knows the paper you describe!

[@thebeesknees1162]

Great video, loving this series

[@vvvvaaaacccc]

hell yeah!!!

[@AN-ke2uz]

I would give a limb for a KZbin channel on ancient Indo-European languages like Hittite or Vedic Sanskrit.

[@nicknickbon22]

About the Etruscan question: the lemnian text seem to be correlated more probably with some Etruscan mercenaries stationing on the island rather than an actual area where a language like Etruscan was spoken. From a genetic point of view there’s actually no that difference between Etruscan and surrounding italic populations, so the best way to interpret Etruscan and Etruscan people is simply a non Indo-European gruppo bresent before the italics arrived and that, for some reason, didn’t adopt the language of the newcomers.

[@trwier]

About the possible connection of Etruscan to Troy: I'm surprised you didn't mention the strongest piece of evidence which is that the Lemnian language, once spoken on the isle of Lemnos near the Dardanelles, is demonstrably related to Etruscan. It is quite close in fact, a little more different than American English and British English. This means either (a) in the terminal Bronze Age or early Iron Age people from the area around Lemnos (including perhaps Troy and the Dardanelles?) migrated westward to northern Italy and settled there, or contrarily (b) people from Etruria migrated eastward and settled on Lemnos. The linguistic evidence is not dispositive, but suggestive. There is also that one cylinder-seal found in Troy itself which is written in Luwian, which is also suggestive but in the opposite direction.

[@pierreabbat6157]

How do you pronounce words like LUGAL, UDU, and NINDA (Sumerian for king, sheep, and bread) in Hittite or Luwian? I've been saying "Nu nindan ezzateni, vadarma ekuteni" as if they borrowed the word, but what did they actually say?

[@ethansadhoursatpepes2882]

i dont know if comments are the best place to ask questions unrelated to the topic of the video, but have you read/what do you make of 'norse mythology' by neil gaiman?

[@EagleOwlEril]

Vikings sure knew how to throw a party - fun, food, and mead served in drinking horns. It's just too bad their RSVP involved sacking your town and appropriating your treasures... now that's real 'Norse' hospitality!

[@LearnHittite]

Around the 4 minute mark when speaking about Kaskian, does it mean that there's now more concrete eveidence that it's in fact Hattic? or part of the Hattic language family?

[@Davy2rain]

This remains to be investigated. But there are some striking similarities...

[@Ithirahad]

We could have used a way to ward off plague two or three years ago, but better late than never I guess.

[@shanemous2451]

You mean a ward against tyranny?

[@faithlesshound5621]

@@shanemous2451 No, my understanding is that the Tyrant went to his city's gates with his priests to conduct the warding off ritual. Something to do with bleach and strong light, and maybe pool cleaner. The priest would want a pool boy as payment.

[@pierreabbat6157]

I read in Wiktionary that the word "path" was borrowed from Iranian into Proto-Germanic. How did those languages meet?

[@ClearLight369]

@pierreabbatetc. Wasn't there an Iranian tribe, the Sarmatians or Avars that migrated west thru Europe to France? That would be the contact.

[@kijul468]

Anyone have any recommendations in terms of Hittite learning material whether it be online or physical?

[@TMSmyth]

*BREAKING!* 😂

[@alexgabriel5423]

I m sure the stature of Dr E Zangger is known to both speakers here.

[@beepboop204]

[@rodrigodepierola]

That title is clickbait. You know us language nerds are going to eat anyhting called "Indo European news", don't you?

[@gabrivalen5435]

I fell for it lol

[@mrmarmellow555]

Lol🤓UmNah But like YEAH 💯 Totally

[@alexgabriel5423]

Dr Eberhard Zangger uses Luwian to denote all languages on the W coast of Anatolia. Here it s denoting one language. Why so?

[@danielbriggs991]

Well it is a well-evidenced hypothesis that the languages -Lydian and- Lycian and -possibly- Carian in addition to the scantily attested Sidetic and Pisidian of 1st millennium BCE western Anatolia descended from Luwian. It's at least an uncle. Dr. Zangger takes it a step further to infer that Luwian dialects must have been spoken almost all around Western Anatolia in the second half of the first millennium BCE. Both Hieroglyphic and Cuneiform Luwian are attested from the 14th century BCE. Sorry, I initially said Lydian, but Lydian has several differences from Luwian that indicate that it could not be descended from it.

[@alexgabriel5423]

@danielbriggs991 thank you for your detailed reply. I learnt that Thracian is compared to Anatolian languages...Thracian in written form discovered in Samothrace by Claude Brixhe in 1994. I did a search on two Romanian words that aren't latin and they are the same in Kurdish[ Anatolian!]. I found other Romanian words straight from Sanskrit.

[@danielbriggs991]

Well Thracian is nuclear Indo-European, and placenames show a significant affinity with Baltic in particular. So comparisons with Anatolian could probably only reveal loanwords. Two inscriptions in Thracian were found in 1912 and 1965, but lone words (hehe) were known of from long before then. Kurdish is Western Iranian, like Persian, not Anatolian. The Anatolian branch completely died out some time around the turn of the common era. We use a few Sanskrit words in English sometimes, like chakra and sandhi, and Hindi words like tulsi, but what Sanskrit words did you find in Romanian?

[@alexgabriel5423]

@danielbriggs991 the Sanskrit words found in Romanian are not loan words like the ones Brits gathered while in India. The words for father, big, animal, earth, to stink, juice are Tata, mare> maha, jivina, pamant> buman, pute> putika[ mushroom that stinks...stinker actually], zama from sauma/soma

[@alexgabriel5423]

@danielbriggs991 professor Vinereanu from New York City university did some work as well communicated to the Romanian Academy. Do not forget Romanians had scholars of European stature like Mircea Eliade > comparative religion[11 doctoral degrees confered by that many foreign universities]...Prince Dimitrie Cantemir a musicologist and composer of Ottoman music that had over 400 modes[ maybe comparable to Hindustani music for richness[...and Constantin Brâncuşi not a scholar but considered the father of modern sculpture by European and American authorities alike.

[@radiationraven]

Wasn’t the famous “Ice Man” found in the Alps of Anatolian or Hittite origin? Or at least proto-Anatolian?

[@bobjoe7508]

He was of Anatolian farmer ancestry, but completely unrelated to the Hittites. He was descended from Neolithic farming groups which are genetically and linguistically completely separate

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

He lived in Southern Europe. Around the Alps I believe.

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

@@nukhetyavuz But he LIVED in the Alps of Southern Europe.