INEOS Grenadier vs. Traction Slip Test: How Does Its 4x4 System REALLY Perform?

[@GregoryStoner]

I was driving the Alpine Loop out of Silverton in my Grenadier today, just in High Range, lot of snow, then on the way back in low range so I could hold 20 miles hour easier, it does great on Ice, hardback and soft snow, never touched the lockers. Only drama today, wife was getting hangry on the way back to Silverton, I had to stop and rescue a Jeep Rubicon 4xe today, they had stuff there nose into the snow bank. It is very capable truck.

[@stevegreen101]

Including the centre diff lock?

[@GregoryStoner]

@@stevegreen101 did not use the center lock yesterday or the other day.

[@stevegreen101]

​@@GregoryStonerso basically any 2wd vehicle would have had the same traction available

[@GregoryStoner]

@@stevegreen101 I had to rescue to vehicles while I was out there.. So no. it really about the tires. Also all the truck is in AWD always unlike the 2004 Pathfinder I used to drive Long ago where you had to lock the hubs or it was in 2WD.

[@Land_Raver]

The Grenadier is not AWD (AWD lacks a two speed transfer case). It is a permanent 4wd system with locking center differential.

[@Agileoffroad]

Your correct it is permeant 4WD! We will correct this moving forward!

[@robertom883]

Exactly. Another mistake or misconception that people have is that the centre lock (3 lockers!!) is a bonus compared to a part time 4WD that has “only” two (front and rear)…I wonder why a part time system lacks of a centre differential.

[@jayabq11]

Great video! Thanks for posting it! 👊

[@Agileoffroad]

Thanks for watching!

[@markelliott6105]

This is a good experiment to demonstrate lockers. 4wd manufacturers long ago figured out that the wheelspin control of individual braking of wheels for ABS and Stability Control (that they are obligated to provide in all cars) could actually be tasked to help off-road traction. Providing independent suspension for better on-road behaviour was suddenly a lot more palatable when you could use magical marketing terms like “torque vectoring”. Pretty much the whole industry went down this path to the point where discussing and testing the ability of electronic traction control was the only conversation. There’s been some worthy efforts from manufacturers in electronic traction control but for ultimate off-road traction, you need to lock diffs so all wheels rotate at the same speed no matter what their individual traction is. It’s almost like the reviewing community has bought into the marketing bullsh!t and forgotten that fundamental fact. People ought to stop thinking in terms of directing torque to a particular wheel. There’s NO SUCH THING. The issue is traction and wheel speed. It’s (almost) entire reason for being is that the Grenadier takes that fundamental approach with its locking differentials.

[@Agileoffroad]

@@markelliott6105 we agree with you 💯 🙏

[@Pandora882]

It’s always in 4WD! Just like an old defender. Good demo

[@danielmckee1163]

I noticed when you had the 2 front tires on the rollers, in normal AWD, it appeared that power was going back and forth between the 2 front wheels and nothing to the rear wheels. Am I understanding that correctly? In all wheel drive (normal everyday driving setting) the power goes to the wheel that slips or spins and all the others are powerless at that point ?

[@Land_Raver]

Not AWD. 4wd without the center diff engaged. It has a two speed transfer case which distinguishes it from an AWD system.

[@Agileoffroad]

The torque is going to go to the least path resistance. Possibly due to less friction in one roller over another!

[@SaltShack]

OFF-ROAD MODE! It’s a button that’s on every Grenadier. Push it twice and it remaps traction control for off-road and is the first thing I engage as soon as the tires hit dirt. It does way more than just turn off the camera and proximity sensors. If you’re avoiding using this feature because it turns off the rear camera contact your dealer there is a process to override. This video was a great demonstration of Lockers but a very poor demonstration of the Grenadier’s “off-road tool box” because it didn’t even mention the first and possibly the most important tool. Lockers are great but misuse can lead to catastrophic mechanical failures, especially up front.

[@stevegreen101]

ESC off road is also activated by locking the centre differential. Reading the owner's manual suggests there's no difference between the two options to activate it. Both options describe it as just "delayed ESC intervention".

[@SaltShack]

@@stevegreen101 Thank you for that, I haven’t read the manual. I have attempted multiple obstacles with Off-Road Mode off then on, transfer case unlocked, with dramatic effect far superior to my 200 Series Land Cruisers.

[@atomicsmith]

@@SaltShackYou’re worried about damage from the front locker, but you’ve done “multiple obstacles” with the center diff open?! I think you need to read the manual. Having the center open means you can send shock loads across both axles through the transfer case and even into the transmission. By locking it, the loads only go across The individual differentials as designed.

[@SaltShack]

@@atomicsmith Gee thanks for that massive input from the owners manual. Shock Load that you are mentioning is from a spinning wheel that suddenly gets traction and can only be delivered to the transmission and transfer case through the only connection that exists, the drive shafts. Meaning, yes driving like an idiot can damage your car. Driving modestly however with lockers engaged when they shouldn’t be, high traction, tight maneuvering can cause driveline binding and damage without much warning like screaming rpm’s from spinning tires. Long story short there is a difference between practical knowledge and the knowledge imparted to a novice in the manual. My initial point and the only one that matters is there is a traction continuum to consider when utilizing the Trucks off-road Modes and mechanical features and is precise why they exist independently. If the intent was for them all to be deployed the moment you hit the dirt then that could be accomplished with one shift or button. Attempting to suggest that experimenting with the features in real world conditions is a mistake is simply foolish advice. On a recent trail run two Grenadiers behind me both sustained body damage because of engaging lockers when it wasn’t appropriate. Further I’ve owned every jeep except an YJ since my first car a 1980 CJ5 and two Range Rovers, Series I and II Land Rover Discovery, Three Toyota Land Cruisers most have been heavily modified and Off-Roaded extensively with 4X4 clubs, fun and chasing game. I’ve welded on the trail to get home, driven in three wheel drive and carried spare axles and U joints among other things to ensure getting out. I have also written for major off-road publications like wheels afield and though I would never suggest not reading the owners manual I can’t help but suggest it doesn’t cover everything everywhere every time and can therefore only serve as a starting point to getting to know your vehicles capabilities.

[@atomicsmith]

@ Keep doing what you’re doing. You obviously know better…

[@72swinger360]

I'd be curious if Offroad Mode would make a difference. It's supposed to change the traction control to a more aggressive mode.

[@Agileoffroad]

It would be interesting to try this, however in low range ESC is turned off as it is in offroad mode!

[@sarge27271]

Nothing beats good old mechanical. Ineos is on the right track. Cheers

[@Agileoffroad]

We agree!

[@stevegreen101]

Slight correction when you say a Grenadier has all the tools for offroad; the axle diff locks are essentially optional extras. If you don't spec the vehicle with them then you can't really make the same claim.

[@Agileoffroad]

You are correct! We hope that many people see that the lockers are going to be essential for offroading when buying a Grenadier!

[@greggb681]

Ineos needs to reevaluate their traction control system.

[@stevegreen101]

They need to double check their invoices from Magna. If they paid for such a system then it clearly hasn't been delivered.

[@Pandora882]

They did they put triple lockers in it.

[@stevegreen101]

​@@Pandora882Not as standard they didn't.

[@CincoSip]

Didn’t TFL do a similar slip test with very different results?

[@DavesIneosGrenadier]

TFL tests were a bit silly. They didn't actually know how the system worked. You can see in this how easily he engaged the diff locks. TFL like many others were pushing the buttons and selecting, then cancelling over and over until the vehicle just told them to get out.

[@whewdoggie1]

​@DavesIneosGrenadier Lol. So frustrating to watch I had to turn it off.

[@CincoSip]

@@DavesIneosGrenadier Why does this test have different results? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGiVkJyfrsqDf80

[@CincoSip]

@@whewdoggie1 Why did this rest have different results? Thanks. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGiVkJyfrsqDf80

[@whewdoggie1]

@CincoSip He gave it some gas on the tfl video. Maybe the traction system needs some throttle to engage, my cruiser does. Personally, if I was buying one of these, I would only get it with the lockers. Why else buy a vehicle like this.

[@PeterFearon-g8q]

Press off-road mode before any of the above , you can drive with seat belts off and in low range all lockers on you’ll get into 8th gear and drive up to 40 mph .

[@seabound1350]

It would be interesting to usw of off road mode. Also, it’s always 4wd.

[@Agileoffroad]

In low range ESC is turned off as it is in offroad mode!

[@CincoSip]

Go here if you’d like to see a Grenadier Slip Test with a different result. Can someone explain the difference? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGiVkJyfrsqDf80 Begin at 8:00

[@Agileoffroad]

Thank you for sending this! We have not seen this video. It could have been the difference in the rollers that allowed them to drive off much easier!

[@abazdarhon]

My jeep grand Cherokee 2012 will do much better and not cost £70k. It will only take more time if you put two rollers at back and one at front then need wee more gas to get engage brakes on rest 3 wheels.