INFJ vs INTJ Part 2 w/ Lauren and Michael | Type Talks E11

Lauren (INTJ), Michael (INTJ) and I discuss and contrast our types. We also talk about why INTJs sometimes mistype as INFJ, especially if they are female!
☆Check out what I'm up to!☆
Hi there! I'm Joyce, a certified MBTI® Master Practitioner, Enneagram Coach, Jungian Typology Expert, Master NLP Practitioner, and Gallup® CliftonStrengths Coach.
WONDERING WHICH ONE OF THE 16 PERSONALITY TYPES YOU ARE?
Book a session to get my take on your type. I'd love to help guide you on your type-discovery journey!
Here is my scheduling link to arrange a time with me:
calendly.com/j...
I charge $85 for a typing session. Another colleague of mine certified by Personality Hacker will work alongside me and we will give you our independent assessments of you.
Want to go deeper? For $97, you can purchase a typing session with 1 hour of additional coaching with me.
Or maybe you know your personality type already and are seeking some type-based coaching? As a trained coach, I can help you apply type concepts to all areas of your life for lasting change. The coaching session rate is $49.99 per hour. :)
If you’d like to get in touch, you can email me at [e-mail]
For those of you who are interested, I am also launching a website and releasing a typology book next year!
Here's a link to my coaching website if you'd like to learn more about me and the services I offer: www.joycemengc...
Connect with me on Twitter: / joycemeng22
Like the show? Buy me a coffee! (it means the world to me): ko-fi.com/joyc...
Show your support by becoming a monthly patron! ko-fi.com/joyc...
Want to know when the next Type Talks video is premiering? Join our Discord community for the latest updates! / discord
#INFJ #vs #INTJ

[@darlalala]

I feel bad for INTJ women because they rarely ever fit a society's mold of what a woman should be. INTJ women definitely have to be more adaptable than INTJ men.

[@JoyceMeng22]

Yes. Thinker women have it tough! Most thinker traits tend to be associated with men. So the world isn't always the friendliest to female thinkers.

[@darlalala]

@Trihardious Maximus how so

[@hfortenberry]

Regarding INTJs and caring about people, I resonate with what Shan from OP says, that Thinkers care about people as much as feelers but we just get to it in a roundabout way. So we use our other functions, rather than Fe directly, to show our caring for people. I think that's why it hurts when people criticize our Ni, Te, etc. It's like, we're ultimately doing everything we do to make the world a better place, either for individuals in a specific moment, or for the whole world for all of time. So the method and the scope is not the same as Fe (which is in the moment and direct) but that doesn't mean that helping people by using thinking or with a delayed gratification sort of way is any less valuable or authentic.

[@howardjames9543]

The whole time I am watching Michels face, we show the facial reaction that is mostly poker face.

[@ThePitchblue]

drink every time Joyce says "that is so interesting...", "that is so cool...", etc.

[@spiritofadmetos9992]

Because the Ni's turn inward continuously, they often forget what is going on with their face as they crank away at thoughts but usually appear somewhat appropriate throughout communication as automatic responses to their audience through intuition.

[@JoyceMeng22]

Yep, makes total sense! =] Nice observations.

[@CorwynCelesil]

I'm so glad to hear what you say about INTJs potentially having a weakness with Te. That was probably the hardest thing to figure out for me when I was studying the functions to really figure out my type. I knew Ni, Fi, and Se were all in play, so I figured Te just had to come along for the ride, but I couldn't see how I used it. Some videos with Heidi Priebe and Denzel Mensah helped me understand things about Te that I hadn't before so that I could see it at work in me, and I've also found it being strengthened a lot by my starting a new job as a theology teacher four years ago. One of the things that has grown the most in me in these four years (my late 30s) is my access to and comfort with my own Te. But I've often felt like a bit of a fraud-INTJ, because INTJs are supposed to have a really strong Te, while I've had much more comfort in the Ni-Fi thing. Denzel's videos helped me understand that, too, while this brings out that it's not freakish development.

[@Practitionher]

Known INFJ for years . Took another test minutes ago and tested INTJ. Gonna book a session

[@CorwynCelesil]

Oh, wow, yes, post-processing of emotions is definitely the thing, for this INTJ. As Michael said, I always know what I'm feeling, but I don't always *feel* it or understand it properly until I've gone away and processed it afterward. Unlike Michael (in other videos), I *do* enjoy some compliments and being approved for things I've done, but I don't particularly enjoy the moment of receiving them. Afterward I go away and process the emotions and discussions and things, and then I enjoy them. As one of you said, receiving approval or expressions of affection in real time is difficult. But I'll read a lovely comment on something I've written online a million times and wallow in the loveliness of it. I journal a lot, and I find that it can help me post-process things while they're going on. I bring my journal to church, to concerts, to meetings, everywhere, and it can increase my enjoyment of and presence in the event. Or it can be a distraction, too, helpful when it's a boring event.

[@JoyceMeng22]

Michael likes compliments more than he lets on. haha! Yes, Fi is about post-processing emotions. Feelings are experienced in full vividness when reflecting on them during your time alone. :) Precisely, Corwyn.

[@cheyennemckinley7029]

As an INTJ that has typed as an INFJ on the official MBTI test, this was so helpful to hear the perspectives of similar INTJ's.

[@JoyceMeng22]

I'm glad that watching these videos has been helpful for you, Cheyenne! :)

[@ENFPerspectives]

I’m an ENFP 5w4 and people always ask if I am sad or mad when I’m thinking. I used to smile a lot to compensate. This year I am considering embracing it as just being me. I realized over time that people are going to think what they want and I cannot change their minds by trying to please them. I have tried.

[@kellyboyed7877]

I understand this video is months ago, but I feel compelled to contribute as I feel close to the topic. relate to being raised as a feeler. My entire upbringing was "you can't say things like that", "you need to be nice to people", "you need to be a nice young lady", "think about how you made this person feel". Whilst well-intentioned, It's very detrimental to finding oneself. I do feel grateful for the Fe training, however, I have felt conflicted about who I am my entire life. I am beginning to understand why. When you said we can be looking passed people, I think that is very accurate. When I am talking with someone, sometimes I am thinking about what they are saying but I am not actually paying attention to what I am looking at. It takes conscious effort to remain socially active and focus on them.

[@Elfen41]

I totally understand Lauren but I really do understand Michael with the people person thing. I just wanna get done what needs to be done and go. I'm always confused when people wanna just lolligag

[@jennysmith3664]

Thank you Lauren for brining up the elephant in the room at around 32 minutes in. There is so much more to a person than the parameters anyone, either individually or collectively, could assign to a definition of cognitive preferences. It was interesting to see how the conversation went after that; thanking you for venturing into this territory. (INFJ, btw)

[@woodedsoul]

Spot on Lauren about the stoic face. I had a very similar incident watching a Christmas morning home video a few years ago. I felt VERY immersed in the emotions and activities, and would have sworn I was as reactive and engaged as everyone else until I saw the video. I looked like a statue with a slight twitch.

[@hfortenberry]

I TOTALLY agree with what y'all said about how certain Judger things don't matter as much when they aren't useful or if they don't provide a good ROI (like cleaning the house). My Fi wants the house clean, but i I don't have the time or energy to clean my house AND get my Te goals done, then my Te is going to dominate over Fi and I'll work on my Te goals. The important thing is to build in enough time to be able to take care of ALL of it. But if you are really passionate about your Ni/Te goals, (which are also fed by Fi), then it's hard to squelch that for lower-priority Fi things like a wonderful, clean atmosphere (which is also desirable but just not going to impact anyone but me where as succeeding in my Ni/Te goals impacts others too. THAT being said, a cluttered environment can also interrupt my flow, but not as much as actually stopping to do the chores. Overall though, I think it's better to take the time to make your space clean and organized because it just feels so good and it seems like in the long run, your mind is a little bit freer to do what it wants/needs to do Ni-wise. But if it comes down to having to choose, the Te will win over Fi.

[@AM-sv2vv]

This has helped me SO MUCH.

[@KatanaKamisama]

INTJ: I sometimes write as a way of post-processing. I don't frequently write poetry; I have written some, however I have never shared any of it. If I write poetry it's usually deeply personal and highly emotional. I like the extra challenge of setting my thoughts to meter and rhyme. I think because poetry is more complicated than prose and more demanding to write it's a more effective medium for emotional analysis because of the amount of time you're forced to think about it. Poetry as a medium also has a higher ... emotional capacitance? What I mean is re-reading stuff I've written years ago, the poetry stores the emotions a lot better than prose. If I go back and read poetry I get a much more visceral emotion out of it than if I just read prose. That could also just be just because I write poetry when it's more emotional but I dunno for sure. My room is typically messy. But when I'm working, I need a clean space. Clutter / dirt in a workspace makes my brain hurt. I literally cannot make progress until my work area is clean and stocked. I think a lot of the INTJ memes tend to highlight the extremes of INTJ health and un-health. Since every type is essentially a sub-spectrum, not every individual (data point) will fall in a position that is representative of the extremes of a spectrum. The fact is that most won't. However I find memes instructive for understanding how other types view mine, and as a cautionary reference for where I might not want to go.

[@DanceMotherSuperior]

I value individuals, even those I do not personally know. And "people" are stupid and drain my energy! Am I a people person?

[@mosesmasaba1736]

Thanks to Joyce and the panel. From part one to this one, I have had so many Ni moment and what a pump it has been (like when Micheal talked about the types of logic... what a field day with that). Keep it going guys.

[@JoyceMeng22]

Thank you!! I appreciate your kind words, Moses. Thank you for watching. :)

[@JAMIEB22649]

Lauren was so amazing in this video. Who else thinks Lauren could be nifi?

[@micahroberts8383]

When Michael was talking about Fi emotions, I immediately thought of Fiona Apple, specifically the song Sullen Girl, but also just everything she has ever written. She is the music artist that I most closely resonate with and I'm an INTJ. Sometimes it's painful to listen to, but I'm like Michael in that I don't listen for enjoyment so much as for a chance to experience a deep truth, and Fiona Apple scratches that itch in everything she does. She is brilliant and also has very aesthetically pleasing vocals, but that is secondary for my listening anyway.

[@joshuaelias.caswell5003]

I am a intj female and I listen to alot of music i have over 5000 songs downloaded and of which are a wide variety of music but i tend to listen to different types of music based on how i feel so if im feeling good I’ll listen to more upbeat music such as types of pop and edm ect but when im in a worse mood ill listen to rap, rock and my most listen to “emo” based pop or rock or pump music such as all time low, green day, my chemical romance, panic! At the disco and then like xxxtentation and jucie world or lil peep ect and i dont know why it is that i listen to that sort of thing but i can see the pattern of what i listen to depending on my mood.

[@Kutthroatkawaii]

I really enjoy seeing examples of type presented beyond the stereotypes. Also so interesting to hear how their Te then Fi vs my Fi then Te experience alters the overall view. Similar experience but different aspects highlighted...

[@JoyceMeng22]

Yes!! I love how Lauren defies our stereotypical idea of INTJ. :) I think TJ women can be hard to spot sometimes because they are socialized to be "feelery." Thank you Shannon for watching btw!!

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

20.15 So true! Euphoric even, I'd say!

[@rewfrog]

dying that Michael brought up that Farrah Abraham album, then I remember he likes noise music.

[@legendzfall]

Genius Fi artist, imo: Brand New, album is called The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me (Daisy is another good album) -INTJ

[@JoyceMeng22]

Awesome; I'm going to let INTJ Michael know about these albums in case he wants more Fi songs his way

[@JoyceMeng22]

He says "lol Fi music corner"

[@rachelk4805]

I feel like they have an expression like somebody trying to figure out the tip for the server in their head. Meanwhile, I am always making facial expressions in response to the stories I am running in my head and look like a crazy person.

[@getreadywithmemamma6973]

Michael’s expression when she said I like people too much. I’m pretty sure I’m an ENTJ and I interact with the world pretty fluidly minus my emotional black box that melts and explodes occasionally and I am very extroverted. But, I feel like an INTJ Lives inside my head, I understand them so much. Also, Michael you look like my hs INTJ friend Greg and it creeps me out. I mean minus the glasses and all of your facial features and your hair type. The INTJ a personality does not care it uses whatever body it occupies to show it’s features. That was dark ugh, yikes. But, from my observations of INTJs I think it’s the expressions and hand movements. I feel like that was creepy to say ugh my Fi is freaked out ugh. Fiona Apple haha, my friend Kat looked like her in hs, we wanted to put Prozac in her coffee regularly, but she was cool and edgy. Is Fi lack of serotonin? I mean I’m all Fi but hmmm interesting.

[@Sam-ng3of]

32:49 birth order? That sounds really interesting. Where can I learn more about its influence

[@vincent.mazkett187]

awesome song recommendations!!! I want share one too... "The Ballad of" and "Leap of Faith" by Hale

[@RajRaj-ic7ql]

Voice quality needs to be improved. Very interesting discussion.

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

17.20. I've come a bit into the album, stuff.. happens!

[@user-lu4fn9pe4y]

That are you a robot question still angers me, I’m reliving it as post processing and the word “no” keeps getting shouted, guess my Ni is 1 micro-second behind slapping (lightly) Fi, like yeah, someone weirdly must have answered yes, now shut up...

[@ccs1229]

"People are always a factor" = every intj's problem. Also is Lauren peacocking?

[@Enigma96969]

You’re a peacock :p

[@laurenwinters6897]

Definitely

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

Joyce, I thought you often did not know how you were feeling, becasue you felt Fe was overriding your own emotions? So when people *can* correcly see how you feel, is that about your own emotions or the ones you aquired from "Fe interaction" with others?

[@JoyceMeng22]

Yes, I am quite oblivious to my own feelings! I feel indifferent to my own emotions but sensitive to the ones outside of me. It's like I'm mirroring the emotions in my environment to create social order. I feel openly in the sense that others can tell what I'm feeling, sometimes quicker than I know myself.

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

@@JoyceMeng22 social order? Would you define Fe like that? Lately i am wondering what the best definitions of the functions are and somehow Fe seems hard to correctly define in a word. It either seems to assume the user always wants harmony or its usage is described as something like persuation, while these seem more consequences of Fe or something Fe does rather than Fe itself

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

@@JoyceMeng22 I'd prefer to find a definition that was big enough so that is big enough so that everything that could be defined as Fe could fit within the field of that description, but at the same time i'd like the definition to some kind of word or set of words rather than a super abstract definition. For example, in OP the definition is 'tribe', while it's kind unclear what that even exactly means. Tribe in which sense? The good thing is that the definition is wide enough so that enough things would fit under it's umbrella. On the other hand there are defintions like hte ones personality hacker does, which I like and they are clear and descriptive, but the problem is that they seem to portrey one aspect of a function while the function involes more than just that one thing . For example, Fe is more than just 'harmony'. So yeah, both the OP and personality hacker definitions do not seem fully *accurate* ;) to me. For Fe I could imagine it would involve the word 'social', since that really describes the whole field in which Fe operates. You describe it as 'social order' (not sure if you actually define it like that or just use that word now) which is something Fe keeps in mind, but If an Fe is comforting someone who feels bad, then how does that fit in 'social order'? Something like 'social movement" or 'social action' (since extroverted functions are basically all about movement/actions) could be in the direction of what would be most accurate. However, I could imagine you do not really use definitions, as clear definitions might be more an Si thing than an Ni thing. (This clealy is my Ne at work as my comment topic is already moving away form the video content haha)

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

@@JoyceMeng22 Would you say you are more or less in tune with your own emotions than other INFJs?

[@JoyceMeng22]

Social order is one of the ways you could describe Fe & it is definitely a facet of Fe. But I don't think it's the entirety of Fe. :) I'll think about it and get back to you one day.

[@katherandefy]

Before you said I knew she was INTJ.

[@kimtopology4257]

INTJ'S Have a piercing gaze as if they are seeing right through you .

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

16.20 and around that time, Y E S

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

Only 1.53 into this one. Is Michael an Enneagram 5 perhaps? :D

[@JoyceMeng22]

Yes! Michael is 5w4 so :)

[@fcolucero8867]

He is INFP af

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

@@fcolucero8867 LMAO he is uber INTJ man! :)

[@NomadOfTheWoods8]

candle box

[@stu6097]

I wonder what Laurens Eneagram type and sub type is.

[@squeezie49]

!! I love Fiona apple :):)

[@grumpyschnauzer]

Lauren might not have hit the part in life that forces her to be that “villain destroying anyone who gets in their path.