Injustice 2: Trauma Survival - Harley Quinn's Greatest Fear - Extra Credits

Content Warning: Abusive Relationship. Harm doesn't end when physical or emotional abuse stops. In Injustice 2, Harley Quinn is a hero who's still dealing with the aftermath of her trauma - and neither of those aspects of her character detracts from the other.
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[@extrahistory]

Content Warning: Abusive Relationship. In Injustice 2, Harley Quinn faces her greatest fear - and challenges media tropes about trauma survival. Thanks for participating in this week's discussion! We want you to be aware of our community posting guidelines so that we can have high-quality conversations: goo.gl/HkzwQh

[@FWDDGS]

Extra Credits thank you That was... tough. But real. And encouraging. Thank you

[@KaiserAfini]

Extra Credits The Joker is not a monster ? Please look at the Death In The Family storyline, The Joker is a monster in human skin and Harley was way too exposed to his horror, which makes her all the more awesome from letting the best in her shine despite all she went through.

[@theladypalecorn7750]

Extra Credits This was an amazing video, just like several of your others. You are one of my favorite analytical KZbin channels. You always bring great insight to game design and taboo topics. Keep doing what you are doing. It's amazing

[@counterstructure4908]

Wish you had also put in that Harley Quinns full name and title is: Dr. Harleen Frances Quinzel, PhD. A PhD in psychology. She knows all this on an academic level herself. While at that point they have been over a decade since she practised, she probably had mental notes (of self analyse) since day one.

[@Jekyllstein_Gray]

Could you guys do a video with guidelines for both writing scenes and designing mechanics that explore hard topics like abuse, sexual assault, genocide, etc. in ways that show respect towards the victims of these horrible crimes?

[@toxicangel1121]

"Harley Quinn is not okay and that's okay." Thank you..

[@LeloniBunny]

Is it ok to be admiring the excellent animation going on during this scene too? Those expressions - wow!

[@shindean]

LeloniBunny Everything came out exceptional, the developers knew that if they were going to do a chapter on something as complicated as trauma, they had to do it perfectly or not at all. Otherwise you get: Press X to show your respects.

[@joelsasmad]

LeloniBunny Give credit where credit is due.

[@hanssmirnov9946]

The animation was the best part of this scene. Hence why Dan decided to slow it down, and take out the dialogue. Seeing the whole scene properly, without narration, is far less effective. Because largely... it feels like a tropey, "come back to the dark side!" scene, in the original.

[@rbwjakfjenwbw1009]

Joel Sasmad I wanna give more credit, say... *Extra Credits*

[@reNINTENDO]

Yeah, I haven't played this game and probably never will, but I couldn't get over how freakin' amazing the modeling and texture work on those characters, _especially_ the faces. And shot composition is top notch to boot. I kept realizing I wasn't paying attention to Dan and was just watching the cutscene.

[@liampellett2038]

Though I will point out that a hero dealing with trauma and it never letting go is also a story for Batman. Though he works hard not to show it Batman is constantly tormented by the death of his parents as we see over and over in the Arkham games, though not abuse, what Batman goes through is Survivor's guilt and witness trauma.

[@maximeteppe7627]

Yeah but being such a well known aspect of the character, this aspect is often brushed aside to deal primarily with the symbols and values Batman stands for. He usually really falls into trauma as plot device.

[@liampellett2038]

Maxime Teppe and this isn't? How about the Batman animated series movie "Mask of the Phantasm" where Bruce has a scene where he's at his parent's grave begging forgiveness for falling in love and not getting vengence for them?

[@maximeteppe7627]

Wow, haven't watched mask of the phantasm since primary school. I've heard indeed that it's one of the best portrayals of Batman as human character. And I should give it a new watch. My point was that most of the time the human side of Bruce's trauma isn't explored, and is mostly used as a way to explain why he puts a suit on, as a tangible extension of Gotham's violence and crime. I don't remember seeing the trauma actually explored in batman begins for instance. It feels more like: i'm batman, I've confronted my fear (the scarecrow) and got my vengeance (Ras al Gul) and now i'm mostly OK".I might be wrong though, cause I havent' seen batman begins in a long time as well.

[@megamonmon]

Liam Pellett Would you say the same applies to spiderman as well?

[@liampellett2038]

Maxime Teppe that's true, not all writers know how to write deep characters, some do, Harley here in Injustice 2 has massive issues and the comic goes into those as well when Harley tells a story about her daughter talking about how it was so cute how she was gone for a year and Joker pretended he didn't notice.

[@danc6167]

as a trauma survivor, thank you so much for this episode! I can't handle most horror games partially because they bring up too many memories, but partly because the trauma never seems to really affect the characters in any realistic way. I'm pretty surprised that such a careful exploration of abuse came from such an unlikely source, but I'm so glad it exists

[@jessielefey]

It's why Silent Hill 3 is my favourite Silent Hill, honestly. That's some *brutal* explorations on being a teenage rape survivor being seen as only a walking uterus now that she's pregnant. Heather is so raw and real.

[@YZaiCreates]

It's a major part of Harley Quinn as a character. This aspect of her is in like 90% of her comics, and some of the best ones deal with it in interesting ways. That's not to say it's her driving force. Her personality is still her own, the joker's abuse is just a constant background noise she has to deal with day to day.

[@RuneKatashima]

Have you tried Outlast 2?

[@YZaiCreates]

Woop woop! Representing the Super Best Friends Play with some of the weakest trolling i've seen in a good while!

[@YZaiCreates]

Marshall Dan many other people throughout history have gone through the same and worse, and not dealt with it at all. Trauma, mental illness and other issues have been present in humanity since its inception. The only thing that's changed is that there's more science, more evidence and more techniques in combating it. We've learned that therapy is a good way to make your life better in a way that wasn't done anywhere near as effectively in the past because they didn't have the research to really know what they were doing. We still barely do. Psychology is still incredibly fuzzy and imprecise as science goes because the human psyche is so complex and individual. But it's better than nothing which is what people used to have. You don't abandon modern science because people lived and survived before it. People survived all sorts of diseases in the past, that doesn't mean we shouldn't take medicine.

[@letsgococo5192]

As someone who has lived with depression for a couple years, and doesn't have the best relationship his mom, seeing this really means a lot to me and you guys did a good job of handling thorny problems like this in a tasteful and respectful way. I'm not an abuse survivor myself, but I've known one or two people in my life who are, and everything you said about not being okay when the abuse stops is absolutely right. And a lot of this applies to other problems as well, things like depression and anxiety and self image troubles and all manner of malfunctions. Hats off to the whole team for having the stones to even tackle this topic at all, and making darn sure to be as good about it as they can. The world needs more things like this, and I for one am grateful that you guys are providing it

[@Gh0stily111]

I like how the people who tell you to just get over it have this big, macho, persona, when they have clearly had an easy life with no real mortal obstacles what so ever hence their outlook, and by enlarge false toughness. Also annoys me how the media only wanna talk about female victims and never male or child victims.

[@nerdsforever4852]

This also does a great job of tearing down the romanticised version of both Harley and Jokers relationship but also The Joker himself

[@Gravitynaut]

TheatreStyle In Suicide Squad, the troubling aspects of their relationship are deliberately ignored if not outright romanticized.

[@YZaiCreates]

Gravitynaut - well that's terrible. At least the original source material is still there for everyone to watch and/or read, whichever version you prefer.

[@gunsandammo92]

TheatreStyle oh god, the fan art. THE FAN ART!!!

[@Bolshoi333]

I think Suicide Squad Harley hasn't quite gotten out of that hole yet. I wouldn't call it romanticized, they just didn't flesh it out, like, at all. It was the fans who came in and romanticized it for them. As they are wont to do.

[@nerdsforever4852]

I find its the fandom that romanticise it which is worrying, whiles some mediums out right ignore it in there portrayal which is at best being willingly ignorant and at worse down playing abuse

[@chenwingsee]

Harley Quinn is such an important to me, as an abuse survivor and I've never met any abuse survivors who didn't love her dearly. I love the focus on her trauma backstory lately and not forcing her into an angelic ideal survivor trope type deal. she's not perfect, but she's harley and she's trying her best. that scene hit so hard for me, and it did trigger me watching it? but i appreciate that they took so much care in writing a realistic abuse scenario

[@krishacz]

And then there's Suicide Squad's Harley.

[@mookooy]

ya...

[@manzanito3652]

There isn't a Suicide Squad movie.

[@invalidusername6809]

Krisha Actually oh god

[@werewolfwill7126]

Krisha Actually remember when you see what Harley Quinn's deepest desire is near the end of that movie? You see her and the joker in a suburban home with a little kid. It's almost the same story as this one.

[@insertname6729]

What suicide squad? I dont remember that. It. Never. Happened. :D

[@Ten80pete]

Each and every video that you guys post ends up bringing forward profound and thought-provoking points, but this one goes above and beyond. To have covered all that you did in under 10 minutes and do it in a powerful way that might help people to understand trauma, congratulations. Very tasteful, and it serves to reinforce the positive reputation that you have all earned.

[@Bahumot]

An amazing episode that makes me want to pick up Injustice 2 even more. I want to give SERIOUS props to your artists with how they depicted Harley. That final picture of her rising up yet surrounded by shadowy hands, it symbolizes everything you discussed in the episode. It's frightening, the trauma in her is so evident, yet she still looks so heroic.

[@rex_melynas]

Thanks for handling this this week "EC". As a trauma survivor I actually think a lot about this, and how, yes, I still remember than I loved someone even if I was almost killed one time. And yes, sometimes one thinks than "I am being really stupid of feeling this way?" It's sadly true. I always watch your videos and always find them awesome, but this one touches me on a deeply personal level. I am trying to expand the reach of this video on everyone I know... This must be shown all over the world! Thanks EC, you are really awesome! And seriously, I can't express how much this touches me...

[@danieladrianmordekai8979]

i am a trauma victim. and i have to deal with this every damn day. the moments where i feel trapped in myself. like in stuck in place in my head. i honestly wish i had the scars to show people rather than words i cant say.. so to see from a channel i love and consult as an artist, a direct and whole heartedly earnest discussion regarding something people too often than not refuse to acknowledge and discuss. dan, james, and everyone at extra credits and hell even the injustice team. Thank you.

[@foxcloak]

the last line of this vid just made me cry at work. bravo extra credits. From a trauma survivor let me say that you guys hit the nail on the head. Thank you.

[@OniBoiXD]

that scene gave me shivers .... that's amazing immersion

[@birdsephone]

Thanks for the warning- I am a trauma survivor and honestly warnings and clear titles like yours save me so many issues. It can literally ruin my functionality to see a video where I wasn't expecting that shit.

[@flunkedlunch7993]

Thank you! I've been through my fair share of bad stuff recently and today I woke up on the wrong side of the bed wondering if I should just call in to work or not. I got on the KZbins and saw your new episode was out so I clicked on it because I always love your guy's stuff. But this one hit me like a brick wall. Thank you for talking about this subject and THANK YOU for handling it in the appropriate manner. You have made my day better. You're right. It doesn't just go away and that feeling is always there that "if I were just a stronger person it wouldn't affect me as much." But that's not true. Sometimes I'm not OK, but that's OK. :) Thank you again for what you guys do!

[@melissarainchild]

Thank you so much. You explained the anatomy of trauma and how to deal with it...by accepting that you (me) have worked through a trauma, delt with it and move on. Knowing that - indeed - the trauma lingers, but I do have the tools to place the trauma in my life instead of letting it roam around all over... Thank you ever so much...

[@eraserheadpssy]

as an abuse survivor, this episode was handled really well and it was really great. thank you for being respectful to trauma survivors and people with ptsd. i wouldnt know about this scene otherwise and it really resonated with me. im an aspiring game designer, and one day i hope to make a game based off of my experiences. this is a great video, keep up the good work!

[@willbe3043]

For a decade. I didn't even know something wrong was happening, until and even after it ended. I was young, content, malleable. I blamed the good guys from stopping it, because it was just how it was and they've ruined it now. I was okay when it was happening. I didn't know any other way to live, anyway. But then... the aftermath. That's when everything started going wrong for me. I was just doing what I was taught to do, and they'd act like I was doing it wrong. So now, unlike before, I knew *I* was the reason I was being treated badly. Cue negative feedback cycle. I've tried many horrible ways of breaking the cycle. But now, I'm determined to make a heroic saga out of my story, instead of a tragedy. Well... I will be, until the next depressive episode, anyways.

[@TheCreepypro]

I never played the game but I do remember watching it on a let's play and being really impressed they go against what the popular opinion is about Harley and Joker and present the relationship in a bad light and that Harley shouldn't go back to it which is equally brave as the accurate representation of a trauma victim and when you think about the fact that the Joker she sees because of the gas is nothing more than how she thinks of him it gives you a small glimpse of what she deals with on a daily basis at least that's how I saw it still blows me away that Nether Realms was behind this

[@joelsasmad]

TheCreepypro The relationship between the joker and Harley is always a terrible one where Harley is a coperative victim. The only depiction I know of where it's put in a positive light is suicide squad which is a bad movie in general. I can see someone mistaking the cartoon version as such but that is mostly because they tune down the dark and disturbing stuff for the kids.

[@manticore6963]

And even in the Cartoon, they had some extremely dark Stuff. Like that one Episode, where Harley managed to capture and almost kill Batman, only to be stopped and beaten up by the Joker, because he didn't come up with that Plan and didn't want Harley to be "better than him".

[@MonkeyPantsFace]

It seven more surprising that they managed to do this with Harley, considering every other piece of media either glorifies or attempts to justify it

[@lord_kyjax4450]

Trauma and other issues are every bit as serious as physical injuries. In the same way you wouldn't mock someone as weak for being unable to immediately bounce back from a broken leg, or tell someone with a traumatic amputation to "walk it off", you shouldn't pretend that people with depression will be okay if they just "be happy". You can't force yourself through a panic attack any more than you can force yourself through a major concussion. Mass media of all sorts needs to start treating mental health with the same gravity as physical health, and I applaud the conscious decision by nether realms to not only deal with trauma, but to deal with it in such a tactful and humanizing way.

[@LaZodiac]

Netherrealms is a company that is SURPRISINGLY good with their story writing, and this is just one of the biggest examples of it.

[@Freakeyedlemur]

Thank you very much for this episode. My girlfriend suffers from anxiety and I can be very unsupportive sometimes. I do fall a lot into that "you just have to be strong" attitude. This episode helped me understand that that's not how it works. So even if it's not a problem as serious as trauma I still should change the way I try to support her

[@hackerdackers8832]

Oh god finally someone understand PTSD. The trauma isn't the worst part, it's the post trauma.

[@bizarreyapper7187]

Anybody notice how her pupils expand when under joker's control but then dilate when she realizes what she is doing? The amount of detail in this one fighting game is incredible!

[@KaiseaWings]

This is why I love Harley Quinn. It's just such a shame so many pieces of media reduce her to the manic pixie dreamgirl/ yandere type. When she was always, since her inception, so much more than that. I've yet to find a Harley I love as much as her cartoon self (including the 2017 animated movie.)

[@ZersusAfterwork]

Injustice 2 amazed me in so many ways, this scene was something I noticed.I thought to myself, that the play of the actress was absolutely on point and must have been from an amazing actress or someone gave very specific instructions, the impressions on the face vom Harley and Jocker where so multifaceted and diverse!

[@Twilord_]

I've been told by counselors and friends who studied psychology that I am basically a trauma survivor. That still feels like a wild exaggeration at times because the events were all online for me and its been two years and I still feel effected. I will admit the stuff that happened was hellish and haunting, but I am not sure it quite qualifies as the level of hellishness needed. BUT its nice to know that if it does count as abuse that I'd definitely count as a survivor - even if I feel still feel like it broke me almost have the year...

[@Moonfixer]

2:27 I feel like volumes could be written on that statement alone. this was an amazing video.

[@jigglyanderson6105]

I know this video is a couple months old now but I watched it with some perfect timing. I've been in several abusive relationships, one though was much worse than the others. At least in terms of how it ended up affecting me. I still feel the ways described by this analysis and scene. I've gotten better, and I'm a better person for learning to live with what happened. But, there are parts of me that still remember that relationship fondly. Parts of me, that still miss the person who did those things to me. And Since trauma isn't portrayed very well in media, I wasn't sure how to cope with those parts of me. I can't say this video led to a revelation. But it did help. It helps to know that part of trauma from abusive relationships is, part of you looking back on that relationship fondly. And part of learning to survive with that trauma, is learning to live with those parts of you, until maybe one day, you can fix them.

[@LianRowan]

I love episodes like this that explore games in ways most dont and going this deep. I would love to see them go over some of the Drakenguard/Nier games, or Yoko Taros approach in general (God bless that crazy bastard)

[@twi3031]

I cried watching this. this is exactly why Harley is one of my favourite DC characters. this is exactly why I relate to her so much.

[@exeacua]

Being strong and brave isnt the same as being heroic.

[@Kawaiimuscles]

Extra Credit your awesome, I'll keep this message brief, I hope to meet you one of these days and collaborate on a project perhaps someday. Your understanding of psychological observation and trauma development is the best I have seen excluding actual professionals, you care a lot I can tell. Your right people, just don't get better. I love Haley Quinn but even more so because she is the prime example of the spectrum of trauma and what it does to people. I understand as a person working in the Psychology and Rehabilitative Counseling field who also loves video games a whole lot. I have and will continue to like your work and be diligent when making content related to the matters just like you. P.s I also just bought a "Fail Faster" shirt cause how dope it was !! Love and Peace my friend

[@wynautwarrior2161]

Thanks so much for making this video. I think I can really understand trauma now and I think I can understand it and a bit of myself better.

[@nujumkey]

ok, i know this should be a really serious topic but i cannot het over that shattering effect. Some really nice visuals

[@greenlemon9155]

think possitive, be happy "we happy few"

[@hack45993]

This was such an amazing video I watched it twice. Hats off to the game devs.

[@Plobia]

Thank you for taking on such a difficult subject.

[@shyguypro9876]

Another great example of this is the graphic novel version of Ramona Flowers when she confronts Gideon Graves in the subspace.

[@PGMT22]

One of the best depictions of an abusive relationship in recent memory is between pinkman and walter white in my opinion

[@Linck192]

full scene, thank me later: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKLJpKqCZ5pmgaM

[@tomtinker8220]

another side to tauma (based on what i've read) is that it might be able to get over it eventually. i'm by no means an expert, but i have heard that tiny occasional triggerings of the trauma do slowly help the person recover. note how middle ground this is. i'm neither advocating for safe spaces (which are not even recommended to be used long-term and are more like a break room), nor am i advocating for telling people with trauma to "just get over it right now," or "just have thicker skin". part of the problem is the redefining of language so people mistaking trigger with upset are sadly able to have a valid point. that should not be happening.

[@tadaboody]

It's a great scene and thank you for bringing it up but this really seems like a cinematic accomplishment- and I'd love to see something of this weight tackled in a good way through gameplay (more so I'd love to hear you talk about it)

[@kaif-tube1692]

That's odd, I always find abuse portrayed in the opposite way by most media. That the victim can never get even remotely better and will always relapse back into the abusive relationship sooner or later. Maybe the kind of things I consume are just depressing though...

[@AbsurdAsparagus]

harly Quinn is potentially an absolutely amazing character, who is sitting there waiting for good authors to take and make amazing stories with. i think she embodies one of the important aspects of comic heroes, they are lego pieces that can be taken and used to tell amazing stories with.

[@LightLegion]

This is probably why Batman gave the keys to the Batwing to Harley. Batman easily relates to anyone who's been through trauma. He himself has not gotten over it and probably never will. At least you need to procure Kryptonite to subdue Superman. For Batman, all you really need to do is say one word......

[@frankwunder8844]

In my point of view, the best guide to learn to handle trauma is Byron Katie's TheWork. At least you will learn to hold a thought in order to analyse it.

[@lr-]

Crazy fact: in a classroom of 30 kids, only 10 haven't experienced a single traumatic incident.

[@ExTess]

I feel that the most important thing to get out of this is that Harley pushed through anyway, and overcame that temptation to become what she once was and let the abuse continue to affect her like it did before. She didn't ignore it, but she didn't succumb to it. She adapted and became someone better because of it (even though she's technically a villain). When most people "brush off" trauma and trigger warnings and safe spaces, most of the time it's not because they don't care or have the emotional experience to understand it themselves, but because some of them have gone through it themselves and figured out that those kinds of things can be more damaging than simply trying to live as if those things don't exist and adapt to it themselves. Kind of like how if I were to say "Whatever you do, don't think of a white elephant," you're going to think of a white elephant. If I say, "Whatever you do, don't think about that thing that gives you trauma", you're always going to think of that thing that gives you trauma. In this case, Harley was triggered by the fear toxin, but adapted her automatic response to her ability to defeat the Joker construct, which in turn defeated Scarecrow. She is still broken, but she changed herself to make her brokenness less of a weak point and more of a detonator.

[@inoob26]

Damn now I want Gael from Dark Souls 3 to have a stand alone film talking about his humanity deteriorating slowly

[@gilgaloregames1066]

I really respect and can relate to this video. Thank you for making this video.

[@cyan4845]

what Harley does in that scene is what I would describe as "getting over it"

[@neonref3978]

Hi. I'm a person who had a verbally abusive father. Now my dad has moved out a few month ago and so I think of making a video explaining stuff that went on in the house I lived and was (and still am) 12 and of course I don't feel great when remembering that junk and I also think of adding "I'm sorry" at the end for my dad.

[@runakinsley3450]

The thing I always fear the most is that I'd become that person again.

[@scurvofpcp]

Trauma is fear of closing your eyes because of seeing them again. Terror is being awake for two days because you just can't go back to those dreams again. Trauma is that empty feeling you have when you see your friends having fun, but deep down part of you remembers that the feeling of joy is just a bait to be used by others to inflict pain. Terror is avoiding mirrors because that makes you real and spoils the illusion that you work so hard to maintain that this life you live is just a dream. Trauma is that feeling of overwhelming pain you feel when someone offers you a kindness. Trauma is a long night where the only reason you are alive in the morning is because deep down you know you don't deserve the release that death offers. Terror is spending 15 years wondering if this night will be your last, and knowing that three times now you are only alive because someone else was there to stop them. ...I never understood some people's need for safe spaces. What confused me about them was it was seldom the person who knew trauma and terror, and was only reserved for those with social anxieties.

[@NoshuHyena]

That last line literally made me choke up.

[@Littlecat3100]

Scenes like those are what make Harley my favorite

[@girlthatisagirl2538]

I'm surprised that the joker never said something like you werent hurt as bad as others were, because that can get to people. I have heard almost everyone who has lived through trauma use that line. I still personally believe it. When I try to talk about my abusive past I never think I'm good enough to be talking about it because it wasnt that bad. I could have been killed, I could have gotten my bones broken, it could have been worse. It always makes me think my trauma is inferior and doesn't matter because people have had worse. I don't know why I bothered to add this in but it seems like it could have been used here since it could be a trigger for some like Harley

[@batmann6755]

Perhaps it was insightful and well thought out as we hope it was. But equally as likely; it was just a couple of writers trying to include the joker in the game somewhere because they knew its what people like and this was the only way they could imagine the character coming back in a dramatic way

[@OatmealD]

If you're looking for a story about the long term effects of physical abuse and psychological trauma on a battered soul, then I suggest you play LISA: The Painful RPG. It is about a man who suffers the effects of an abusive childhood, only, in my opinion, the main character feels more human, his actions more realistic, and his story all the more gut wrenching when you near the end of his journey.

[@AaronHujibob]

Part of me wants Harley to find solace in someone in the normal DCU like a character that can still be a partner in crime for her like IVY. They've only really touched on it because they never explore their romantic relationship outside of fan service-y moments that hint at their sex life or depict them in the nude. She deserves a story that acknowledges the dark past she left behind I think x

[@arthurvale5147]

And I thought that the joker was there only for fan service

[@SWATDRUMMUH]

I thought a WW1 movie called Regeneration tackled the theme of shell shock/ptsd pretty well. If you guys have time, I bet Regeneration would be a good follow up on this.

[@MorseCodeStutters]

Age of Youth is a good Korean drama that shows the everlasting effects of trauma in 5 college students that share a house together.

[@ItsJustMe0585]

Thanks for this, guys.

[@Jobsih]

Another thing Injustice 2 does surprisingly well is portraying real life female body proportions. I know they're still really sexy and all that but compared to some comics, anime or games the "sexy parts" are not ridiculously enourmous and they a re pretty true to real life sexy women. This also applies to men, no 90's Captain America here

[@idkwhattonamelol8351]

This scene made me so riled up and angry at the joker, I felt as if I played 10x better trying to beat his ass. And it made me love Harley's character so much more.

[@KM-te4yy]

I think she acted way to strongly for someone who had so much brainwashing and psychological torment. The Manson family remained loyal for decades. Some of them that are still alive are still loyal. Soldiers suffering PTSD are never capable of "dealing with it" despite having extensive therapy at their disposal. But we're supposed to believe that Harley Quinn, under the effects of a hallucinogen that amplifies fear to maddening levels, can overcome her trauma with 5 years of running away from it?

[@tomjackal5708]

I feel so strongly that I can relate to this but... I don't really know why

[@lyl14ghost]

Tho live in a society of this kind, to talk to people about your experience is impossible.

[@talalx8]

6:45 LOOK its ed boon lol amazing work as always guys

[@modermousev2ofthegoldendeer]

Ok, I know there's a line between the feelings and having my heart torn out. It was around here somewhere, where is that line

[@archmagusofevil]

I never considered injustice because I'm not a fan of fighting games, but that makes me want to at least give the game a chance.

[@AlexVoxel]

Really good adress of trauma

[@kidkratoski3778]

Good on you EC team ..bravo 👏

[@sanguiniusse434]

There's a scene in the new Thor movie that handles triggering and self harm in a really interesting way. It's super short and honestly I might just be projecting of my own experience. It's the scene where Hulk transforms back to Banner. If anyone wants to agree or tell me I'm way off base please do

[@sonofapirate]

Brave and good pepole = Heros

[@HoriaMarchean]

Just gonna leave this here: Changeling: the Lost.

[@LaceNWhisky]

Anyone else notice that "trauma" was spelled wrong on that button?

[@josephboyle1273]

I adamantly enjoy this channel, but I am compelled to highlight a few facts about the joker/Harley relationship which people seem to be forgetting: 1. It is not a one way abusive relationship, it is mutual. The relationship is better described as symbiotic. 2. Its is not a false relationship (the joker does actually care about Harley deeply, just not conventionally, due to a mix of in story and real world complications) 3. Harley is not evil purely because of the joker made her that way. She is as much accountable as he is and has done many detestable things independent of his influence. 4. Joker is as much a victim, if not more so depending on your accepted cannon, than Harley. 5. The Suicide Squad portrayal of the relationship (all be it a lack luster film) is no less apt a representation of their relationship than the one in Injustice 2. If you disagree i recommend you go watch the entirety of the DCAU (as well as the creators talking about the relationship), read as many joker Harley orientated comics as you can, and read the killing joke with going sane.

[@poggoestheweasl]

'Deals with it in a very real way' Harley then proceeds to summon hyenas and giant mallets to kick the shit out of Joker with.

[@DeadEyeJ]

This is why the Harley and Joker scenes in Suicide Squad failed completely.

[@tsukuyomin]

3:09 *TRUAMA*

[@darienevans6229]

In a way Harley is stronger then superman. Neither one of them is ever going to comptly heal from what the joker did to them. Harley has gotten better. Superman has only gotten worse. Mass effects jack suffered a lot.

[@phantomstrider]

This is so well discussed. The fact that our media does regularly give the impression that trauma is something people can walk away from by "being strong" may be empowering, but it's also not addressing the full reality of trauma. That is often something that people deal with daily within themselves.

[@timetogeaux5149]

There's a similar scene later on in the game, though I don't think it's handled quite as well. Scarecrow gasses Wonder Woman and causes her to see Superman turn on her. He calls her out for manipulating him in his grief and attacks her. She quickly sees through this and fights scarecrow. It draws an interesting parallel between the two. Harley's biggest fear is her abuser, Diana's biggest fear is she IS the abuser. She quickly shuts this thought process down and tells herself she must be right. When they physically confront each other later in the game, this parallel is made even more evident. Diana is going to kill Cheetah, but Harley wants to spare her life. Harley has grown from her abuse(she's not okay, but she has grown) and faces down another abuser. Harley got out of the cycle. Diana is now the one perpetrating the cycle, and essentially becomes her greatest fear.

[@darkwave8892]

I got out of an abusive relationship over two years ago and am still trying to deal with it. Nothing about it is easy, but it's comforting to know that I'm not the only one dealing with the pains of my past.

[@isaac1670]

darkwave8892 I'm sorry to hear that. I wish the very best for you on your road to recovery.

[@whitelady1063]

darkwave8892 you can always talk to me

[@alexsmith2910]

Darkwave, You are in our hearts and we wish you a long and good life.

[@Tripas350]

I have no idea who you are and what you went through, but I just want to say "good luck" and "hope you have good and happy life".

[@otakudoctor8423]

You are in our hearts and i hope for the best for you. You can talk to me if you want:)

[@pedroscoponi4905]

D-damn... Good facial animation with the proper timing sure, ahm... conveys a lot of feeling. _deep breath_ phew! Watching that was 100% heart-breaking.

[@hanssmirnov9946]

Yeah, the animation is great. Slowed down, and narrated by Dan, it's much better than the original scene. It conveys what EC talks about, that way, instead of boiling down to someone seeing something horrible, and then being OK because they're strong, or something.

[@epederson92]

I guess we've finally defeated the uncanny valley? I'm not sure how I feel about that though...

[@BubblesZap]

+EpicNational don't worry, between stuff like Mass affect and whatever else is coming we'll have plenty of falls back into the valley.

[@intothepale3551]

Absolutely agreed! It makes me wonder - because of the excellent animation and the similarities to Harley Quinn and Hayden Panettiere's facial models - if NetherRealm studios got some help from the artists who worked on Until Dawn.

[@KyleBernard0]

Pedro Scoponi animator of this scene here! Thanks a bunch! It’s been a while since I thought about this shot and I’m glad it’s still standing up well to time! It means a lot to me just seeing people connect with it!

[@ReagentGray]

Thank you for this episode. So many people use words like triggered and get angry about "safe spaces" and "Content Warnings", but to hear you talk about trauma seriously, really warms my heart.

[@javonyounger5107]

They get angry at such things because many of the people who push such things say that they are traumatized when they aren't which also has the effect of making people sceptical of the people who want these things because they truly are dealing with trauma.

[@seacliff217]

Javon Younger Agreed. A lot of people going through actual trauma are getting undermined through the safe space movement because it dissolved into identity politics. It's really unfortunate, so I'm glad this episode took an actual example that took such a situation realistically or at least made it believable.

[@GearyDigit]

People with actual trauma are getting undermined by people automatically assuming they must be faking it because reactionaries have spread the myth that people are just pretending to have trauma for 'identity politics' and believe that places where people with trauma or minorities can go to feel safe from any worry of being harassed or have their trauma triggered is somehow a bad thing.

[@pikafreaka]

Javon Younger Exactly. "I need a safe space to talk because my class is hard." and "I need a safe space to talk about domestic abuse/rape/ coming home from a war/getting a friend killed due to drunk driving/any number of actually traumatic things" are hilariously different, and is what tick me off the most about that madness.

[@jasperfireline]

Or, you don't change what you present, and then you deal with them. And they aren't pure garbage, and are really appreciated by the people who want them. And they have never stopped me from experiencing ANYTHING, but made my experience better because I went in prepared. Like this video for example, that had a content warning. And I watched it.

[@thinkpink113]

I should not have watched this at work because it nearly made me cry. As a survivor of abuse who still has contact with my abuser and the people who enabled that abuse, one of the hardest things about dealing with that fallout is the struggle to not fall back into those old roles and behavior, even though I consciously know they are not okay and harmful to my recovery. But I'm glad that you've opened the door on this subject so that others like me might be able to better understand their experiences.

[@MattHew-rq8zw]

They shed light onto topics that are usually frowned upon, by society (from time to time) - mental health, has layers like an onion ... each can cause tears to form, each layer is fragile yet so complex regarding how to proceed on without causing further reactions from our tear-ducts. :/ Trauma, depression, suicide, etc... all taboos which has been looked down on by others. I experienced my fair share in the Army, some years back... both traumatic experiences and the expected processes from there on out (like how to deal with it... least I, and they tried.) ... while still remaining in service ("Retired" or rather in no condition to return back to service - nowadays.). I think that no matter what it is, no matter the cause, severity or 'shelf-life' that our afflictions have... it still remains the same thing, namely traumatic experiences - thus I don't compare, for I know it is ... bad enough in itself, so I ain't going to scoff at someone for going through hell as a child/teen/youth ... while someone else is going through it right now as we speak - pain is still pain, and everything relative - don't you think?. All in all, thank you kindly :) - for sharing your experience, reaction and ... well it makes some feel less alone, knowing they didn't suffer alone (for some, it can be cathartic)... um, cheers and I wish you the best for the future to come!

[@identi8040]

Are you okay now?

[@MaaZeus]

I loved the slowmo part. Really made the Harleys facial animations stand out as you were explaining what she was going through during that scene. Fantastic scene, and fantastic video from you guys. And yeah, Harley is NOT okay, she probably never will be. But atleast she is not a homicidal maniac anymore, just happily maniac. :)

[@umnikos]

Trauma is like a carving in a tree. It never becomes smaller, but it also never becomes bigger. And while trauma never goes away, you can become bigger, making the trauma a smaller part of you.

[@danrope7559]

Dude! ...Beautiful simile. ;_;

[@RemixerUltimate]

Damn that was a really great way of explaining it.

[@daemondan666]

"Harley Quinn isn't okay. And that's okay." I think that statement is the most beneficial to people going through trauma and trying to get their life back together from it. Too often we're told to stop being weak, or to just get over it, etc. But that's not how it works. And people who don't experience a major trauma don't get that it's not how that works. It makes trying to get past things even more difficult because it makes me feel isolated and weak. But to hear that it's okay to not be okay is almost liberating. To not have that pressure to be smiles and sunshine and rainbows and to never let the cracks in my mind show, if even for just a moment, is a really good feeling

[@nyatrue401]

Daniel F Exactly, I went through some tough times in my life, and it hurt me, I've kept myself mostly together, but I've always wanted someone to recognize the hurt that I was hiding, but to know that it's OK to show your hurt is such a liberating feeling. I don't have to feel bad about not being OK, I can show others my hurt, but I don't have to be owned by it.

[@xxiao5156]

What's beautiful of this scene is actually HQ playing all this in her head. Scarecrow can't possibly come up with all of Joker's taunt, so all his speeches are the subconscious of HQ. So in a sense, the abuser's impact is more profound because Joker implants his personality within HQ's psyche. In other words, he 'recruits' HQ to torment herself. Or you can interpret this to shoehorn Joker in some way into the story mode despite his death in game 1.

[@YZaiCreates]

It's both, which is great cus abuse victims are constantly tormenting themselves. That's why the harm continues even after separation from the cause.

[@MattHew-rq8zw]

... I'm terrified regarding how pin-point accurate you are in that assessment. :/ aye, it will not stop - it will only be halted for a moments time, until it proceeds once more - until ones breath is no more.

[@minhkhangtran6948]

Though not really...Like anything, time fade it away. As it became truly the past, the image became more and more obscure. At that point, it could be one of those shadow monster that kept haunting us forever...or simply a thing to remember by. Sure it's still hurt, but you have way happier moment now that wouldn't happen if you fought against it (I'm talking about abuse generally, not really about witness trauma that is a whole other can of worm that this analogy doesn't fit)

[@xxiao5156]

That's why this only happens with a trigger. In this scenario it is the fear toxin of Scarecrow. That's why trigger warning exists.

[@PhyreI3ird]

Well, damnit, I think you said what I said but even better xD

[@calvincampau6072]

I worry this will come off wrongly but I feel I have to put this out there just so it can be seen possibly by someone who will get something from it. This scene worked for me so well even though I have never been in a romantic abusive relationship, but I was heavily abused as a child, heavy bruises kicking, insulting, I spent my entire childhood submersed entirely in escapist fiction to get away from everything that hurt. I idolized the heroes in comics and books that I had secondhand from my uncle and watched cartoons religiously all while playing any video game that I could get my hands on. They spoke to me everything my parents weren't, bullies. even the worst that I liked (Punisher...sometimes.) they still were fully self sacrificing for others. I mention this because, like most children of the 90's the #1 show for me, was batman the animated series where we first saw Harley Quinn and we saw an abusive relationship shown as very clearly as abusive. I didn't understand why at the time but I always had to hide my face a bit in my shirt or watch when my parents weren't around because it would make me cry uncontrollably every time I saw The Joker and Harley on screen during any of their abusive or 'romantic' scenes. Today I am a mostly well adjusted adult who is struggling but managing to get by and is mostly happy with his life, but I go back, sometimes, without warning without any idea why but I'm always able to claw back. and now I can watch and read about abuse and awful things and not always fall apart, and I'm always able to pull myself together again. This is why exposure to well written and well thought out and researched popular culture and popular culture discussion are important for me to realize that I was being abused, but while I was trapped there until someone helped me by flying me across the nation to somewhere I could live I was at least able to process and better handle myself mentally. The scene in Injustice is especially hard hitting for me because I am only recently even being able to recognize that that I have succeeded in some ways and that I am in a better place then where I used to be.

[@rbwjakfjenwbw1009]

Wow, that made me tear up man.

[@MattHew-rq8zw]

Any trauma counts mate - no matter where it started out, how, and who caused it to ya'... or even what it was. :/ It's a day at the time process from then on out - I wish you like many others the best, for I to live with my trauma... I won't compare, for all cases are accepted in my eyes. Cheers friend, hope yer' going to have a fine week ahead of ya'.

[@ince55ant]

If you keep pushing forward you can travel great distances without realising it. Sometimes its worth taking a moment to look back and see how far you've traveled. I haven't lived a long life yet, but it is way longer than i used to think it would be. Good luck to you in your future and try not to dwell in the past too often.

[@nyatrue401]

I'm happy for you, I was in a similar situation recently too, and I only just got out, I hope you live a wonderful life.

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

the idea that there are others suffering from it as well and that I could do something to help them is what kept me from blowing my brains out due to moral abuse stress. This example of harley quinn's abuse by the joker is an example of it on a "romantic" relationship, but it could happen the same way with a boss, with your parents, with a mentor... It's an exploitation of your good will, you want to be someone honest, a good partner, a good son/daughter, a good friend, a good apprentice, and the other person instead of being humble for what you feel about them, see you as a tool that they use to think only what they think and do only what they want, ignoring completely that there is a human being there as well. They will use your desire to be well seen and accepted and/or "loved" for what they want, basically. It's also the reason I don't believe in good/evil, or anything close like that. These people won't go to jail, you can't see them as evil people, they will get promotions, become big companies directors, big politicians. The ideas of good/evil are simply their tools to control how you see them, they will destroy other people's self-esteem and will to fight with these concepts and still be proclaimed as saviours/heroes.

[@Neoxon619]

Tom Taylor also does a great job with Harley Quinn's character in the Injustice 1 & 2 prequel comics (which are canon to the games & are even referenced in-game). They really do dive deep into her character & adds to the fact that Injustice Harley is one of the best depictions of her. And fun fact, the Green Arrow of Injustice 2 was introduced in the Injustice 1 prequel comics.

[@Kiytan]

Personally, I think injustice (the comics) has some of the most well written versions of those characters that I've seen. Also, nobody should ever have to justify a fake moustache

[@Neoxon619]

Kiytan I understood that reference. I look forward to seeing Harley rebuild her friendship with the other Earth's Green Arrow.

[@raymondconchu7721]

Especially the scene with Quin and Canary. Damn that's a good scene

[@Cythil]

This depth is the reasons I liked her so much as a character in The Animated Series which I saw as a kid. And I do like it when media actually embraces this very curial part of her character. It is a bit sad to see how so many depictions of Harley dare not delve in more tragic parts of her character when a kids show actually dared to delve in to the subject. I think I get especially annoyed with it as Harley is a character created for the show and not a re imagining of the character. So it making a great disservice to that character when she is underplayed by removing her more traumatic side to her.

[@Ranyore]

They give it an extra nod too in the solo play "ladder" in the Mulitverse where each character gets their non-cannon "If THEY saved the day" winning conditions. Hers is joining the League, fighting the bad urges when they appear, and to play with her daughter (complete with tutu truck) as she considers telling her that she is the real mother someday.

[@toddvogel8887]

Injustice 2 has quite a few great little moments of story telling, my favorite has to be the moment between Batman and Superman right before they fight where they stop and just talk about the day Clark told Bruce that Lois was pregnant and how they wish things could be like how they were before, Batman even says "I miss who we were back then" but they both know that things can't go back to how it was before.